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Thread: US Presidential Election

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    I've argued on brexit the humanitarian hollow moral high ground position of accepting refugees/migrants from war-thorn or economically exploited regions, sometimes both. Wgil
    Hollow?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lad View Post
    Hollow?
    Yes, I think so have explained it before at incoherent length.

    5million Syrians would not be arriving in Europe if the region hadn't been destabilised by largely NATO and Russia & China. Arguably USA most so.

    I think it's a bit hollow (maybe even irresponsible) to say you welcome refugees/migrants with open arms, whilst ignoring such impacts historically and human nature and also while ignoring the conditions which give rise to the desire to come here from say Africa and the middle East particularly.
    It's no measure of tolerance to claim one upmanship after the initial event of intolerance and inequality.
    There was a British academic that showed how oil nations progress less than those without oil, due to meddling geopolitics and corruption supported.

  3. #63
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    Ah, I see what you're saying now.

    Yeah, when people who are, let's say, inadequately concerned about the impact of war welcome refugees, I would agree it's rather hollow in that case.

    I feel similar about the two minute silence to be honest.

  4. #64
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    Soo, any of this seem familiar?

    Etiamsi omnes, ego non

  5. #65
    Yep. very familiar. If you look at Brexit it was only to be expected. Because it was always there under the surface.

    The "Not my President" demos were more surprising but it will all die down again. probably.

    I've seen figures that say Clinton got more votes than Trump... but Trump wins because democracy?

  6. #66
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    Yep. Fourth time that's happened in US history. He doesn't win because democracy, rather because states. This is supposed to ensure small states are still important and their interests aren't trampled on by the interests of California, New York and Texas. In practice the electoral college doesn't really ensure that afaict.
    Etiamsi omnes, ego non

  7. #67
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    Aye , seems one of the biggest factors is urban v rural dwellers in voting.
    76% of rural vote trump, Say 76% urban vote clinton. Bit of a London v non London as in brexit with LA NYC urban centres v rural ones.

    Similar daftness post Obama care , albeit more so turning up at hospitals demanding plastic surgeries, lipos & implants. It does lack the vileness of the above balinkay posts. Seems one trump protestor has been shot at a rally.
    Think 53% of the electorate voted which leaves the non voting as the biggest group. Trump & Clinton 8million votes shy of Romney & Obama's voting turnout. Hillary 7mill less than Obama, Trump a million shy of Romney's.

    It'll all settle down (somewhat & , hopefully) when these fools realise they've been electioneered by Trump.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Balinkay View Post
    Yep. Fourth time that's happened in US history. He doesn't win because democracy, rather because states. This is supposed to ensure small states are still important and their interests aren't trampled on by the interests of California, New York and Texas. In practice the electoral college doesn't really ensure that afaict.
    It makes me wonder just how united the states really are if they are each so separate and different!

    "He doesn't win because of democracy" but isn't that supposed to be how it works?!

    Re: Brexit - certain commentators would have us believe that a repeat referendum would vote to stay in the EU as leave voters suddenly realize what they've done - I would love to know if that's the case with Trump voters now.
    Last edited by stevie harkness; 12th November 2016 at 01:33 PM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by stevie harkness View Post
    Yep. very familiar. If you look at Brexit it was only to be expected. Because it was always there under the surface.

    The "Not my President" demos were more surprising but it will all die down again. probably.

    I've seen figures that say Clinton got more votes than Trump... but Trump wins because democracy?
    Keep in mind though, that if it were a simple pop vote and not the electoral college system, a lot more Reps in heavy blue states would come out and vote thus likely effecting the overall vote. They mostly don't in states like NY and Cali because it's a forgone conclusion that they'll be won by the Dems hence it's pointless. Same for Dems in red states imo.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by thomasLFC View Post
    Keep in mind though, that if it were a simple pop vote and not the electoral college system, a lot more Reps in heavy blue states would come out and vote thus likely effecting the overall vote. They mostly don't in states like NY and Cali because it's a forgone conclusion that they'll be won by the Dems hence it's pointless. Same for Dems in red states imo.
    Well that's a sad ad for democracy. I read that only about 54% of voters bothered - the lowest turn out in 20 years.

    Whether it's the US election or Brexit, if a sizeable proportion (25-45%) don't even bother to vote and those who do are pretty evenly split (55:45 being generous) then it hardly warrants headlines like "the people have spoken" or "the nation decides" - More like the nation is divided but half of them have to suck it up.

    But in the words of Jim Jeffries: "Donald Trump: now don't get me wrong, he's a lot of fun, and there's a little bit of me that thinks: '**** it, let's do it' and see how f*cking crazy shit can get."

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