Feed the troll
My question is how long does a Club have to go before it loses its tag as a big Club.
I look at us and think the only reason people talk about us now is because of what we did about 30 years ago and I wonder how much mileage we can still get out of this as in selling merchandise and being acosciated with being called a big Club.
I would put Liverpool in the category as a famous Club rather than big and in the same bracket as an Ajax or Benfica in some ways only they still actually win there own League, we don't or ever will.
I was at the game where we won the last league title back in 1990 and if you told me we would never win a League for 27 years I would of said you were mad but here we are, I look at Spurs another famous Club and they haven't won a league for about 60 years and we are well on the way to that ourselves.
I just want to know how long do people give it before finally admitting although we are famous we are no longer a big Club, like Preston, Leeds, Everton and Villa before us...
Feed the troll
Summed my point up perfectly...typical answer from a person clinging to the Past by his finger tips and burying his head in the sand to reality. This is the type of response to a genuine question I expected but never mind....
Could you please define the word "big"? Words, like time and space, are relative, so does "big" mean:
- Known throughout the world (in which case, yes, Liverpool is a big club)?
- Having a lot of supporters around the world (yep, we do, so we're a big club)?
- Having as much or more financial power as our rivals (nope, we're not the biggest club, but I'd say we're still big)?
- Being able to attract the best players (maybe we're not the biggest club at the moment, but let's see this summer: it might change)?
- Being challengers for every competition in Europe and domestically (definitely not in Europe, but we're getting better at home)?
I don't think that, as you seem to be suggesting, people only think of or like LFC because of past glories. They would be the glory-hunting fans, of which there can't be many left!!
In terms of past successes, I think it's right to celebrate our past and remind the new generation that we've won the European Cup more than any other British team, we've won the second most titles, etc. Of course, it doesn't help to expect the current players to emulate all that, but our past should be celebrated rather than lamented.
We have a big past, big reputation and big support globally. So if reputation or support is the barometer we are big. We may not have had major success but that doesn't make us small or historic. City has won some trophies but here in South Africa there aren't many City supporters so they are not a big club here, they are successful but in terms of support, presence etc. I would not consider them as big. They are rich and successful but small in support etc.
With support of a club it is also passed on so even though we may not have won much there are many young supporters who have allegiance because of history and patronage. So in terms of that I don't ever think we will be small, also don't know globally how Benfica and Ajax compare to Liverpool in terms of support but i think it is dwarfed and there is no comparison.
Yes some good responses just what I am looking for in this debate. I personally think a big club status has changed, years ago it was based on fanbase and success, this put the big five as United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton and Spurs however how many of the old big five still are included now? Deffo not Spurs and Everton and Liverpool might just scrape in due to the emergence of Chelsea and City. I think a big club status is money and power and I think maybe a bit of expectancy in that too, Liverpool don't have the money to compete at the top level anymore, they don't have the power as top players bypass us for the bigger clubs who pay the transfer and wages and they deffo don't have expectancy of winning leagues and champions leagues as we see fourth place as success and are just happy appearing in champions league.
These are all cast irion reasons why Liverpool are unfortunately no longer a big club. The history isn't worth a carrot for the simple reason it's from too long ago, anyone under the age of 30 hadn't seen Liverpool win a league and even Leeds and Blackburn have won it more recent than us.
I think the glory hunters were well established years ago and you are probably seeing sons and daughters now supporting so for me they are gloryhubters too, just ask why would they choose Liverpool instead of the club closest to them if it wasn't down to glory, fame of reputation...just doesn't make sense..
If being a big club is down to money then we can just look at the stock exchange each year and hand out silverware accordingly.
If history isn't worth anything then don't bother keeping scores and records. If grandad says they're a big club you'd better believe him.
If football is about people and community then the only size that matters is immeasurable, intangible, it's 'spiritual' not a material thing.
"...Why would they choose Liverpool instead of the club closest to them?"
If you love football, but you're not from England (I would guess that's around a billion people compared to around 20 million in England), who are you gonna support?
I went to Kenya a few weeks ago (a marvellous place to visit, btw) and people generally supported Chelsea or Arsenal. I asked why, and people said this is because there are more African players for those teams.
In France, many people support Arsenal because of the amount of French players and, or course, Arsène Wenger.
Therefore, national identity could have something to do with it.
If not, why not simply support the best team, or a team you like because it's your favourite colour, or a team you enjoy watching?
For me it started as a mixture of this, and though you might have been able to point to my 8-year-old self as a "glory hunter", my support for LFC has grown over the years. I will never change allegiance, or stop supporting when the chips are down (Hodgson/ Hicks/ Gillette) or start supporting anyone else. I consider this being a genuine fan, like anyone else in the same or similar position.
As for the definition of "Big" as "rich and powerful", we are the fifth biggest team in England, as N4C rightly pointed out a while back. We spend the fifth biggest net amount on transfers. Man Utd are the biggest team, by that definition. Fair enough.
This post was in response to t'other thread, didn't get any reply. So here it is again
We nearly had two cl titles in nearly 35 years.
Financially , as memory serves , we're the 9th biggest club in world football.
These doldrum 25ish years are still trophy laden with respect to other clubs. Champions league winners + finalists, uefa cup/el winners + finalists, league cup and fa cup winners + finalists.
What if your timeframe is 10 years? Are we still a "big" club?
Depends on your definition of big really. We have a big fanbase, pay big wages and have a big stadium. By definition, we're a big club, no matter what way you look at it. Newcastle are also a big club, in England at least.
I seriously doubt anyone would say the last 10 years have been successful though. A solitary League Cup and one top 4 finish in the last 7 years is not the definition of a successful club. Just ask Arsene Wenger, or Van Gaal, or any number of others.
Big but not successful. It's certainly an interesting debate.
My biggest mentor is myself because I've had to study, so that's been my biggest influence.