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Thread: We're here to win

  1. #1
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    We're here to win

    “Obviously we’re here to win, and we’ll do whatever is necessary.” Some twat - 2010

    Whilst I would imagine the club is in it's most sound finanicial position it has been for many years, we've won one trophy under their stewardardship. And the pricks almost immediately sacked the legend who achieved that.

    But barren runs are not completely unknown to us. Between 1995 and 2001 we won nothing until Ged took us on an incredible cup winning spree. However, it's the statement "whatever is necessary" that I'm opening up for debate.

    Like it or not, thanks to Chelsea and City, huge squads and quite a bit of money are needed to win things these days. It's great spending £75m on a defender and £60m on a midfielder but if you've just picked up £146m on a money ball sale is that progression? Or is it standing still? Two players for one is a pretty good deal. Neither replace the player like for like but strengthen areas that need strengthening.

    But we still need a replacement or are we to just write this season off? Believe in the current crop of players? Man City won't tell us much win or lose. The fact is, if you remove a £146m hole from your attack, it needs filling. I'm not convinced Lallana is the man to do that, as decent a player as he can be, when he turns up. I'm steadying myself for no replacement but there's still 20 days left of the window to be fair.

    But that's not the main question, it's have they done "whatever is necessary". I don't think we have. I think the net spend has been not much more than most mid table teams. Looked it up in the summer and we've, on average, spent about £25-£30m. I don't buy the arguement it's up to Klopp whether we sign another player as this is a pattern under three separate managers. If he goes in complaining about not spending, they'll point towards the reinvestment in the defender and central midfielder.

    So financially strong, trophy barren. I think if we don't replace Coutinho it's par for the course and continued mismanagement with regards to strengthening the playing staff. Doing enough and relying on a good manager to get the best out of what he has and make the top 4. If we do replace him however, with a marque signing, then even the most hardened anti FSG fan who'll never forgive the tramp and the lesbian for sacking Kenny would have to admit that it's at least an attempt to match that bold quote above which was made when they came in and "saved us"...
    "He likes having the ball, playing football, passes … it's like an orchestra, but it's a silent song, yeah? I like heavy metal more."

  2. #2
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    Knowing, as the club probably did in the summer, Coutinho was going, how do you feel about the purchase of
    Salah £36m
    AOC £40m (ish)
    VVD £75m
    Keita £55-60m (depending what you read)
    Around £205-210m with other players still to come ?
    At that sort of level of spending plus another £50-100m, so say £260-£300m, are they not investing in the playing staff ?

    And please remember I detest the Yankee tossers, I am not an apologist I am just asking what I see as a valid question.
    Last edited by miller0863; 11th January 2018 at 10:42 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller0863 View Post
    Knowing, as the club probably did in the summer, Coutinho was going, how do you feel about the purchase of
    Salah £36m
    AOC £40m (ish)
    VVD £75m
    Keita £55-60m (depending what you read)
    Around £205-210m with other players still to come ?
    At that sort of level of spending plus another £50-100m, so say £260-£300m, are they not investing in the playing staff ?

    And please remember I detest the Yankee tossers, I am not an apologist I am just asking what I see as a valid question.
    From where I am sitting the numbers look like this. I may well be wrong but here goes.

    Salah: 36
    AOC: 35
    VVD: 75
    Keita: 48

    Far closer to £190 million - and when you factor in the sale of Coutinho £140 and the profit made in the summer of 2016 - Klopp has had about £20 - £30 million net to work with.. it doesn’t look too clever to be honest.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by red4life86 View Post
    “Obviously we’re here to win, and we’ll do whatever is necessary.” Some twat - 2010

    Whilst I would imagine the club is in it's most sound finanicial position it has been for many years, we've won one trophy under their stewardardship. And the pricks almost immediately sacked the legend who achieved that.

    But barren runs are not completely unknown to us. Between 1995 and 2001 we won nothing until Ged took us on an incredible cup winning spree. However, it's the statement "whatever is necessary" that I'm opening up for debate.

    Like it or not, thanks to Chelsea and City, huge squads and quite a bit of money are needed to win things these days. It's great spending £75m on a defender and £60m on a midfielder but if you've just picked up £146m on a money ball sale is that progression? Or is it standing still? Two players for one is a pretty good deal. Neither replace the player like for like but strengthen areas that need strengthening.

    But we still need a replacement or are we to just write this season off? Believe in the current crop of players? Man City won't tell us much win or lose. The fact is, if you remove a £146m hole from your attack, it needs filling. I'm not convinced Lallana is the man to do that, as decent a player as he can be, when he turns up. I'm steadying myself for no replacement but there's still 20 days left of the window to be fair.

    But that's not the main question, it's have they done "whatever is necessary". I don't think we have. I think the net spend has been not much more than most mid table teams. Looked it up in the summer and we've, on average, spent about £25-£30m. I don't buy the arguement it's up to Klopp whether we sign another player as this is a pattern under three separate managers. If he goes in complaining about not spending, they'll point towards the reinvestment in the defender and central midfielder.

    So financially strong, trophy barren. I think if we don't replace Coutinho it's par for the course and continued mismanagement with regards to strengthening the playing staff. Doing enough and relying on a good manager to get the best out of what he has and make the top 4. If we do replace him however, with a marque signing, then even the most hardened anti FSG fan who'll never forgive the tramp and the lesbian for sacking Kenny would have to admit that it's at least an attempt to match that bold quote above which was made when they came in and "saved us"...
    Sounds like a well run bank - quelle surprise.

    But yes I am with you, prepared and desperate to be proved wrong about their ambition for the club rather than their wallet.

  5. #5
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    Keita’s Release clause was £48m and we paid over that to get his signature early.

  6. #6
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    I don't think you're an apologist but I think you've fallen victim to media spin and large numbers surrounding our buys.

    With the sale of Coutinho, listed as £108 upfront, our current net spend for this year is £540k. Lees than 1 million pounds. Now that doesn't include Keita, so let's take the highest amount of £65m deduct the possible add ons for Counitho at £38m and the balance is £27m.

    £27m spent net. And that generously includes a player we won't see play for us until next year.

    And to put that in context, some other NET transfer spending...

    Crystal Palace £34.20m
    Bournemouth £30.87m
    Huddersfield £38.55m
    Watford £45.00m
    Brighton £47.60m
    WBA £48.65m
    Blue shite £55.92m


    And then our league rivals

    Chelsea £20.20m
    Scum £152.90m
    City £154.95m

    Both Arsenal and Spurs made profits and you could argue that reflects in their current league standings.

    So in answer to your question, how do I feel about the signings? Not bad. Salah is inspired.

    In answer to my question, is £540k net doing "whatever is necessary to win"?

    Or do we need to replace Coutinho now?
    "He likes having the ball, playing football, passes … it's like an orchestra, but it's a silent song, yeah? I like heavy metal more."

  7. #7
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    Fantastic OP. One of the best on here in a long, long time (whether you agree with the OP or not).

    The figures support the argument that they have not done “whatever it takes to win” and more importantly, the trophy haul proves it. I believe they rode in in a horse of Moneyball + FFP and have had their arses handed to them. They believed that football was a badly run sport (it is) and that some version of Moneyball/Soccernomics would revolutionise it. That didn’t happen and it took them several years and a few wrong turns to figure it out. Sadly, Kenny would likely get a better chance if hired now, than when FSG still thought they were the smartest guys in the room.

    So here we are. The club run as a business for the last seven years and a single League Cup to show for it. Not exactly doing “whatever it takes to win”,

    But ... they’ve hired Jurgen Klopp. Whether master stroke or pure luck, it matters not. A proper football man who knows what it takes to win. Someone with the clout to explain to a bunch of investors in Boston that a nice smile and being pleasant with the media wins you fuck all. Trophies and medals are won on the pitch. Combine that with his general enthusiasm and football philosophy and we’re seeing some of the best attacking football ever seen at Anfield, with defensive reinforcements now brought in to stop the leaks. The transfers are unrecognisable from a few years ago.

    Don’t be fooled by the smiles and the glasses, Klopp genuinely will do whatever it takes. FSG might finally have to back up their claims.
    Last edited by TheBigRC; 11th January 2018 at 11:38 AM.

  8. #8
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    Sorry I’m still not following the figures.
    £108m in for Coutinho, Salah, AOC, VVD & Keita equate to only £135m spent ?
    If you are putting Keita in at £65m and AOC at £35m and not disputing VVD & Salah costing a combined fee of £111m, does that not add up to £211m ?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller0863 View Post
    Sorry I’m still not following the figures.
    £108m in for Coutinho, Salah, AOC, VVD & Keita equate to only £135m spent ?
    If you are putting Keita in at £65m and AOC at £35m and not disputing VVD & Salah costing a combined fee of £111m, does that not add up to £211m ?
    Ignoring Keita for a second (because we’re not actually buying him till the summer) we had a net spend of 39m in the summer on Solanke, Robertson, Salah and Chamberlain.

    That takes us up to now, where we have 140m for Coutinho and 141m for VvD and Keita. But then, you’re counting Keita in this year’s spending, without taking in to account summer sales. So without Keita, this season we have

    40m summer net spend
    Jan - 75m on VvD, 140m Coutinho.

    That’s leaves us about 25m profit to date. With a tryical transfer budget of 30m-40m, we have 65m left to spend this season. If that goes on Keita in the summer, then it doesn’t count in the spending for this season, so we’d end up still 25m in profit.

    You can see why R4L is questioning the investment. A lot rides on what happens next.
    Last edited by TheBigRC; 11th January 2018 at 12:04 PM.

  10. #10
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    Personally can’t ignore the Keita fee for the purposes of the discussion as the contract is signed, Coutinho’s add ons however are for years down the line...if they happen.

    And yes, I agree, it is important what happens next but for me, we have made a good start. I just don’t see it as all doom and gloom.

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