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Thread: Brexit thread 2 Electric Boogaloo

  1. #271
    My premise that a nation is made up of homes is just common sense. What scrutiny? What is a nation made of if not people? Community? If that premise doesn’t hold up then there is something wrong with society. Unless you believe that there is no society, only the individual.

    A body is made up of millions of cells, so for it to function in full health we need all those individual cells to be healthy. Each cell sharing the blood and oxygen and nutrients appropriately. And so it is with society. Unless you pretend that we are not really united as a human family, and choose to focus on the divisions and differences.

    We haven’t really defined left wing, right wing, socialism or capitalism so we may be talking at cross purposes but for me left/socialism is more about family and community, right/capitalism is more selfish, individual and about money. Simplistic sure. Buddha said to take the middle way.

    Of course it’s lovely to have a society where you can go out and be creative and ‘work hard’ and get rewarded and of course businesses should be profitable. There’s nothing wrong if we make money, but problems arise when we make money the priority. Because then we cut corners and make money at the expense of what really matters in life.

    Bottom line: Money is not real, it’s not what is most important in life. And so when people make it priority then they have already lost their way (although usually it is other people who suffer)

    I already said that a family doesn’t redistribute wealth, it is not about money it is about taking care of everyone’s needs. Each member has a responsibility. If your brother is an alcoholic there’s plenty of evidence that that’s caused by trauma or a lack of connection. Of course you shouldn’t enable him, but you could help him. Let’s not confuse family and community for co-dependency.

    I help food banks because they’re right under my nose in my community and I know the families who receive the food. I don’t view these people with disdain, they are decent people. The existence of food banks is a sign that there is something wrong in society, that decent people in a supposed rich country don’t have enough to eat. And if food banks are a sign that the state isn’t running properly then the state should help out. I’m not sure what you mean about the welfare state being a stain on Britain? (No, I don’t think it is). I suppose the difference is that state aid feels that the government cares and you’ve paid your taxes and the safety net is there. With private aid it’s more tenuous, you’ve paid your taxes and been abandoned to your fate. The painful reality is that the government doesn't care and they are not coming to rescue us. We need to solve it ourselves as individual communities, despite the government.

    As for addiction, booze, fags, drugs, bookies, gambling, to me these are all symptoms that there is something wrong with society, how we live, and it’s often caused by trauma, lack of connection, lack of community, lack of opportunity or purpose to life. Nobody aspires to live like that. They are not healthy. They need help. I’m not saying they don’t have any responsibility, of course they do, but so does society. You can’t just scrape them off and pretend it's all their fault and nothing to do with you. Some people lack basic life skills - how does this even happen?

    It’s the same with the homeless, some are intelligent, educated or ex-servicemen, others not so much, but many of them become homeless because they don’t have family, community, connection, purpose. Some homeless people that I know just want someone to look them in the eye and acknowledge them as a human being and connect and communicate, share time and share mind. Others want to rip me off.

    And sure if you give your money to homeless people they will only spend it on their addictions, but the same is true of many affluent people in good jobs, they get paid and they just spend their money on their addictions, it’s just that their addictions are considered more socially acceptable.

    As for greedy conmen, dishonest beggars and scammers, again, they are not healthy - and no healthy person would aspire to live like that or take pride in themselves doing that. And you can find similar kinds of that behaviour from guys wearing expensive suits.

    Modern society has lots of problems that traditional ‘primitive’ peoples don’t have.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balinkay View Post
    "If I recall correctly"
    I'll probably forget this before too long
    There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief

  3. #273
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    @stevie harkness

    you mention ex-servicemen being among the homeless, how can our government allow that to happen?
    I agree with most of your post, btw
    There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief

  4. #274
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    Where Johnson and the Tory party will ultimately fail in this game of populism is the fact that unlike Trump and his cabal, the Tories have a naked ideology in the form of neoliberal capitalism. They will pretend they are of the people but ultimately these posh boys will let the mask slip. Let's hope it won't be too late for democracy

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiordearg View Post
    Where Johnson and the Tory party will ultimately fail in this game of populism is the fact that unlike Trump and his cabal, the Tories have a naked ideology in the form of neoliberal capitalism. They will pretend they are of the people but ultimately these posh boys will let the mask slip. Let's hope it won't be too late for democracy
    does that mean greed, in other words?
    I cannot forget the North Sea Oil debacle, Reagan/Thatcherism, the banking crisis, selling off nationalised industries/services.
    'Kin hate conservative "ideals"
    There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief

  6. #276
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    Certainly does

  7. #277
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    Did BJ just lose his majority?
    Etiamsi omnes, ego non

  8. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Balinkay View Post
    Did BJ just lose his majority?
    Yes, one of his MPs switched parties. It doesn't seem to matter much in our own peculiar brand of democracy though.

    Since becoming our unelected Prime Minister he's lost a by-election, lost his majority, and now just lost the vote tonight.

    Teresa May is pissing herself on the back benches.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevie harkness View Post
    Yes, one of his MPs switched parties. It doesn't seem to matter much in our own peculiar brand of democracy though.

    Since becoming our unelected Prime Minister he's lost a by-election, lost his majority, and now just lost the vote tonight.

    Teresa May is pissing herself on the back benches.
    Is Cameron still involved in the Tory party?
    He started this shit storm.
    There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevie harkness View Post
    Yes, one of his MPs switched parties. It doesn't seem to matter much in our own peculiar brand of democracy though.

    Since becoming our unelected Prime Minister he's lost a by-election, lost his majority, and now just lost the vote tonight.

    Teresa May is pissing herself on the back benches.
    Isn't he elected by the members of his party? I agree it's an odd way to go about it, but I don't think you could say he lacks the democratic mandate of the people.

    This is looking fun though - do you recon you guys are getting a "snap" election?
    Etiamsi omnes, ego non

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