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Thread: The special relationship

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    Not sure I follow you 19 ? What exactly did he say ? How is he going to introduce whatever it is you're talking about ?
    From what I gather there are issues in both systems and some common problems across medicine more widely.

    Spiked is deemed right of centre. Brexit is deemed a conservative more than labour idea, today.
    Brexit wasn't even an idea, Cameron the gambler never thought he'd lose the vote, it wasn't supposed to happen and only did because Boris Johnson who when interviewed roughly 12 weeks prior to the referendum campaign starting said leaving the EU would be a disaster, then saw an opportunity to play out the 'Toffs' childish university hustings games with the future of millions of UK citizens as a potential means of getting himself into number 10 and getting one over on Cameron. Oh, and also happened because New Labour, Blair's Labour had given rise to a lot of minority far right parties like UKIP through creating massive voter apathy, as there really was precious little difference between Blair's Labour and the Tories
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  2. #12
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    I've never really cared about seeing this in the papers.. But then again, I do have a special relationship with the press.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    That was from the horses mouth on his state visit, erm, why would that be from a right wing article? It's the right wing who are largely pro Brexit, immigration, immigration, immigration, the UK has always allowed substantial immigration, it did so long before the EU's freedom of movement, it has always been done as a means of getting cheap labour
    In or out of the EU, high "migration" isn't going to stop any time soon.
    The right-wing/conservatives/businesses love high migration as it means they can keep wages low.
    The migration into the UK before we joined the EU was primarily from our commonwealth countries.
    I believe it (migration from EU) didn't increase immediately, it only happened once the EU administration/government/bureaucracy grew in size.
    There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    Brexit wasn't even an idea, Cameron the gambler never thought he'd lose the vote, it wasn't supposed to happen and only did because Boris Johnson who when interviewed roughly 12 weeks prior to the referendum campaign starting said leaving the EU would be a disaster, then saw an opportunity to play out the 'Toffs' childish university hustings games with the future of millions of UK citizens as a potential means of getting himself into number 10 and getting one over on Cameron. Oh, and also happened because New Labour, Blair's Labour had given rise to a lot of minority far right parties like UKIP through creating massive voter apathy, as there really was precious little difference between Blair's Labour and the Tories
    Brexit clearly is an idea. One that was favoured.

    Think you're omitting some other factors in the rise of far right groups. A similar one with the decline in the church of over here... though there seems to be a wholly different reaction between our 2 nations.

    I'd also contend that the far right label is a rebranding exercise to a point. More often than not it's the socialists who lose their shit and go mental.

  5. #15
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    On the NHS,

    Does anyone think the UK is healthier now after decades of the NHS ?

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    On the NHS,

    Does anyone think the UK is healthier now after decades of the NHS ?
    No, but that doesn't mean it was a bad idea.

    So many factors go to make up the health of a nation, it's not just pills and potions (which are actually for ill-health)

    Food production, pollution (of all kinds), the erosion of community...

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    On the NHS,

    Does anyone think the UK is healthier now after decades of the NHS ?
    Quote Originally Posted by stevie harkness View Post
    No, but that doesn't mean it was a bad idea.

    So many factors go to make up the health of a nation, it's not just pills and potions (which are actually for ill-health)

    Food production, pollution (of all kinds), the erosion of community...
    NHS. A brilliant concept. Initially it worked well. I believe people are healthier since the inception of the NHS.
    Treatment is/should be available to everyone. Air pollution (primarily road vehicles) is increasingly affecting people's health.
    The NHS is struggling...
    (a) because there are too many people living in the UK
    (b) some NHS staff abusing it (c) poor management (d) waste - prescriptions for example, the NHS has to throw away millions of pounds in prescriptions that are either un-used or over-prescribed.
    There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief

  8. #18
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    I'd agree with both of ye it is a good concept and well intentioned.
    But I'd also argue that without it Britain would be a healthier society, I'd disagree with redebreck on this matter of Britain being healthier today.
    People who are poor and ill would be screwed to an extent which is why we like it. People wont care for their health as much when ill health costs them nothing or far less when they need intervention.

    If you take it as a society that the aims of the NHS is to provide medical care then as a society it should aim for less demands on the NHS and this would require stringent efforts on behalf of the individual and the society/state. I dont think you can honestly say the responsibilities are performing in tandem with the rights: Individually and societally/state/commerce
    Last edited by CCTV; 31st July 2019 at 10:39 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    I'd agree with both of ye it is a good concept and well intentioned.
    But I'd also argue that without it Britain would be a healthier society, I'd disagree with redebreck on this matter of Britain being healthier today.
    People who are poor and ill would be screwed to an extent which is why we like it. People wont care for their health as much when ill health costs them nothing or far less when they need intervention.

    If you take it as a society that the aims of the NHS is to provide medical care then as a society it should aim for less demands on the NHS and this would require stringent efforts on behalf of the individual and the society/state. I dont think you can honestly say the responsibilities are performing in tandem with the rights: Individually and societally/state/commerce
    I consider the UK as being healthier because more of the population has, in theory, access to healthcare.
    I can't disagree about people not caring for their own health adequately - didn't take this into account.
    Do you think the old U S of A is a healthier society? Over there, all healthcare as I understand it, has to be paid for.
    If you're ill or injured and can't afford it, you don't get the healthcare you need, or am I wrong?
    There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by redebreck View Post
    I consider the UK as being healthier because more of the population has, in theory, access to healthcare.
    I can't disagree about people not caring for their own health adequately - didn't take this into account.
    Do you think the old U S of A is a healthier society? Over there, all healthcare as I understand it, has to be paid for.
    If you're ill or injured and can't afford it, you don't get the healthcare you need, or am I wrong?
    Speak with a nurse, doc or shrink or look at stats. It's not good.

    No the USA is a much sicker nation across health statistics. Roughly speaking twice as bad as the UK which has been tied in to their levels of financial inequality in the affluenza book.

    America has the best healthcare in the world without doubt in terms of quality. If you dont have insurance and/or money though you're fucked. Technically you cannot be refused life saving care but you will be billed accordingly and for those without it's a crippling cost.
    20-45 thousand people are said to die every year due to a lack of access and avoidance.

    I've been told by a doctor working in the system there that the costs are due to the quality of care but they have a huge issue with insurance costs in case they are sued as the payouts are huge.

    Believe there are say means of getting healthcare much like food banks over here.

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