Coronavirus and the impact on football

[Taksin]

Flu did not bring the world to a standstill
Flu does not carry such an inhumane suffering.
This virus is different and the long term effects are yet undocumented but appear to be akin to ME and alzheimers and may affect as much as 1 in 10 people with mild symptoms.
We are still learning about it.

Hi Scientificred,

The UK Office of National Statistics places 2020 deaths in position 8th of the last 27 years (when their records began, I believe). Now, there were a number of far more severe seasons before 1993, such as 69 and a couple of post war years in the fifties where far more people died from flu. This is what happens cyclically. I don't know why we cannot see covid as a part of this pattern - for some reason it has to be considered as 'new'. But it really isn't. It's a bad respiratory virus. It has many redeeming features - it barely affects the young and healthy, for example. So why is it more 'inhumane' as you put it? Surely a flu virus that kills many young people has a claim to that title?

Almost all strong fever causing viruses have a post viral disease profile. Post viral fatigue is nothing new - I have treated many people for variations of ME and post viral fatigue. One person I have been treating for about ten years. That was 'caused by' glandular fever (and one has to assume, the effects of heavy antibiotics).

If you want to read about 'inhumane' and covid, how about the abandonment of the nursing homes? Here is a snippet from Amnesty focused on the Uk but the stories from Italy and Spain from March were even more shocking.

A series of “shockingly irresponsible” Government decisions put tens of thousands of older people’s lives at risk and led to multiple violations of care home residents’ human rights, said Amnesty International today, following an investigation by the human rights group’s Crisis Response team.

Amnesty’s 50-page report - As If Expendable: The UK Government’s Failure to Protect Older People in Care Homes during the COVID-19 Pandemic - shows that care home residents were effectively abandoned in the early stages of the pandemic.

Government decisions is what I have been focusing on. I know the disease is bad - I had it. Whenever I do this, people taking your cautious approach claim that this virus is new, inhumane, something we've never seen before. But really the only thing that is truly new is the response to it. If we weren't obsessed with the disease to the extent that we want to test absolutely everyone, our three footballers would not have been found out and no one would have even noticed they had something - they aren't ill (as far as I know). Bill Shankly would have made them play even if they were ill.

Covid did not bring the world to a standstill, the government response to it did.

[Steveo]

You are quite right Taksin - this has all been “handled” way out of all proportion to the actual threat this virus represents relative to other threats we face.

Sadly you are fighting against the entire apparatus of government - its associated and politically motivated “science” - and the media.

A blanket noise of non stop brainwash. Day in day out. There is nothing else happening on planet Earth but Covid 19.... and Trump..

Millions are not starving.... oh no... millions more are not displaced due to wars waged in the name of “humanitarian” ( natural resource and geopolitics ) using arms supplied by the richest most powerful nations on earth... All so concerned about our vulnerability to Covid they have shut us all down... haha. It is a shit show. A total con...

“The bigger the lie, the more it is believed.”

[Taksin]

I am asking what you think constitutes an expert.
OED says
'Having or involving a great deal of knowledge or skill in a particular area.'

Knowledge and skill are different things. For instance an academic may have a great deal of knowledge about economic cycles but have no idea how to run an actual business.

Similarly, an academic may have an algorithm that predicts 500,000 people will die in the UK, but may have no business deciding how we should live out our lives in response, nor how we should adapt our football season.

Can 3 (or maybe many more) experts have different viewpoints ?

Of course, and it's probably essential for science to work. It is a feature of the modern corruption of science that we think we have to choose one truth and stick to it. Opponents become 'deniers'. There is no place for such totalitarianism in real science.

Do they lose their 'expert' title when dealing with a new virus?

Of course not. Otherwise they would have a very short career.

Do they get it back when they appear to be right?

Not in my experience. People who were right rarely get the credit afterwards. Those in power have too much to lose to admit they were wrong. Imagine Al Gore coming out now and admitting he was wrong with virtually all his claims and predictions (which he was). Much easier for him to keep calling his critics 'deniers', rounding on them in a bullying manner, funding his own unscrupulous chosen scientists who are prepared to keep up the appearance while getting rich, and using political power to establish his science as fact.

There is no magic that ensures a scientist will be wise, good, fair minded or unaffected by the allure of fame, riches and influence.

[Taksin]

A blanket noise of non stop brainwash. Day in day out. There is nothing else happening on planet Earth but Covid 19....

I am personally fatigued and jaded enough by the whole thing to have lost some of the impetus to do the research anymore. There is another massive death toll arising as a direct result of the lockdown and restrictions. We won't be able to understand it fully until the economic effects are felt and accounted for, if that's even possible. But there is science being done to account for this death toll and it doesn't look good. There are estimates of 25,000 extra cancer deaths, for example.

Why can't we see that? It's like the world has become hypnotised by this one threat. Again, a thousand people died in the UK of the flu last week - far more than covid. Are these deaths just inconsequential? I don't understand.

I'm focusing on the effects on football as it is right in front of our noses and the restrictions are obviously a terrible, terrible shame - something we couldn't pretend to be a reasonable response to a seasonal disease. So, when it becomes obvious that this is no more than a seasonal respiratory disease, albeit a bad one, and that neither footballers nor fans are dying from it, we might start letting politicians know we are not happy with their decision-making and they may lose their jobs at the next opportunity.

[Nineteenx]

You are quite right Taksin - this has all been “handled” way out of all proportion to the actual threat this virus represents relative to other threats we face.

Sadly you are fighting against the entire apparatus of government - its associated and politically motivated “science” - and the media.

A blanket noise of non stop brainwash. Day in day out. There is nothing else happening on planet Earth but Covid 19.... and Trump..

Millions are not starving.... oh no... millions more are not displaced due to wars waged in the name of “humanitarian” ( natural resource and geopolitics ) using arms supplied by the richest most powerful nations on earth... All so concerned about our vulnerability to Covid they have shut us all down... haha. It is a shit show. A total con...

“The bigger the lie, the more it is believed.”

They've made an unholy cock up of managing the virus worldwide but especially in the UK and the US, it is a genuine threat, not to me as some Mancs ended my life 8 years ago and I'm the walking dead anyway. There is an awful ot they don't seem to know or understand about it, hey don't know for definite exactly how it spreads and why some people get it and others don't

I disagree with your analysis that 'it's a big con' or a big lie, Brexit was a big con and a big lie in which they somehow managed to convince a lot of very stupid people that the UK and it's manufacturing sector was fucked because of the EU, when it was the Tories, the very people idiots elected who did that.

Why would they invent Covid or over egg it Steveo? Everything they do is geared to making even more money for a very small minority of the world population who are incredibly wealthy, I would argue that it is a problem for them and it is actually costing them billions and the reason we haven't managed to get rid of the virus by effective lockdown is because it was costing that small group of incredibly wealthy people a lot of money and they were desperate to get everyone who works for fuck all or next to nothing to keep their riches flowing in to get back to work

[Steveo]

The “con” and the “big lie”... is not to say that the virus isn’t real. It has claimed a huge amount of lives. Nobody sane would question that fact. This is the problem anyone has in debating this virus.

The big con and the big lie is the out of all proportion reaction.. There is simply more to it. This is government taking control of our daily lives in a way unjustified through any other means

[Nineteenx]

I still can't get over how stupid people are in the UK and the US, it should be entirely apparent to anyone with half a brain that the Tories and Trump or anyone from the other side in the US are the mob, they learnt an awful lot from Al Capone and the Krays about having the media onside or in their pockets, the police, judges etc etc etc oh and how to money launder billions of tax payers money out of the system into their own offshore accounts each year while paying no taxes themselves too of course

It's what both the UK and US governments have been for the last 40 years, they are the mob, they are con men, they have been absolutely robbing the normal tax paying public in both nations blind for all that time and most people in both nations are such victims of adverse CBT through the media influence, the news they are fed and how it is reported and what is deliberately omitted they just can't see it

If you watch Goodfellas and in particular the Bamboo Hut restaurant scene, where they get the guy to let them take it over after trashing its takings by not paying their bills and then use it as a vehicle to money launder and scam even more money through, then burn it to the ground when it's completely fucked - Well, that's the tories (including Blair) with your public services and your taxpayers money for the last 40 years right there

[Nineteenx]

The “con” and the “big lie”... is not to say that the virus isn’t real. It has claimed a huge amount of lives. Nobody sane would question that fact. This is the problem anyone has in debating this virus.

The big con and the big lie is the out of all proportion reaction.. There is simply more to it. This is government taking control of our daily lives in a way unjustified through any other means

It's out of all proportion because they're panicking, they run the media, they are losing shit loads of money, the way they have set up the economy, particularly in the UK in which they destroyed all manufacturing and anything with unionised jobs over the last 40 years and turned the UK into a services industry nation, if people aren't able to do the things that keep those service industries afloat, which they aren't, economically the UK is completely and utterly fucked

People actual deserve for being so thick, ignorant and fucking stupid to keep voting for the Tory cunts for 40 years anyway to be fair, being entirely honest I completely despise UK society and what it has become and how 90% of the population are absolute gormless morons who are the vitcims of adverse CBT

[Steveo]

It's out of all proportion because they're panicking, they run the media, they are losing shit loads of money, the way they have set up the economy, particularly in the UK in which they destroyed all manufacturing and anything with unionised jobs over the last 40 years and turned the UK into a services industry nation, if people aren't able to do the things that keep those service industries afloat, which they aren't, economically the UK is completely and utterly fucked

People actual deserve for being so thick, ignorant and fucking stupid to keep voting for the Tory cunts for 40 years anyway to be fair, being entirely honest I completely despise UK society and what it has become and how 90% of the population are absolute gormless morons who are the vitcims of adverse CBT

I don't believe government is panicking - they have never been so secure in modern times.

Big business OWNS the media. Big business owns government.. Remember that next time there are calls for a "Humanitarian" war to wage OR a global pandemic.

The media brought us Brexit - The media fuelled WMD claims and the media is spreading global panic over Covid 19. It is those who fund this shit show that need to be exposed

[Nineteenx]

This is government taking control of our daily lives in a way unjustified through any other means

Normally we always agree on these sort of things Steveo, but look at what I've highlighted in bold from your post

Think about what adverse CBT is, CBT is a means of getting people perceived to be mentally ill and people who are to accept things that they find unacceptable, that was the purpose of it's design

Our Gov and those incredibly wealthy people have used this technique through their control of the media to have ordinary everyday normal working people accept things they never should or should have and the biggest con which is why I highlighted what I did in bold, is that people, billions of people worldwide are living in the false reality, the world that has been pulled over their eyes through 40 plus years of adverse CBT that they live in democracies and they are in control of their own lives

Albert Einstein warned in 1949 the time would come when the rich would control the means of communication, making it impossible for ordinary people to make informed decisions.

And Einstein was right, people think they live in democracies, how they are so easily manipulated into voting a certain way and falling for each next thing and believing they are free to make and are making their own decisions is simply hilarious

Almost the entirety of our population, in every single thing they do, in every decision they believe they are making, are simply making decisions and choices they have been presented as their choices and educated through years of adverse CBT to make those choices. They took your freedom a very long time ago Steveo, you're not free, you are a product of their machine and the choices and decisions you think you are making of your own free will are simply one of x number of multiple choice options they have given you to select from over the past 40 years