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Thread: Summer transfer thread

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by justme View Post
    If we go for another wide player in the summer. I hope we don't end up losing Salah in the next year or 2. Hes a superb talent..
    I do think in Summer '21 or '22 we will sell a member of the front three for big money, having assessed which one will decline the quickest/to the greatest degree that another club wants.

    Said cash will be re-invested.

    I am totally at peace with this - we are in an incredible position and what I would hate to see happen to us would be the "storing up" of trouble - look at what is coming down the line (in terms of the amount of turnover of playing staff required) for a side like Barcelona - I would much rather re-invigorate the side when it's appropriate, akin to how Ferguson did with United every 4-5 years.

    Will miss whoever goes, whenever they go, but we can not stand still and allow other clubs to catch up.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious View Post
    I do think in Summer '21 or '22 we will sell a member of the front three for big money, having assessed which one will decline the quickest/to the greatest degree that another club wants.

    Said cash will be re-invested.

    I am totally at peace with this - we are in an incredible position and what I would hate to see happen to us would be the "storing up" of trouble - look at what is coming down the line (in terms of the amount of turnover of playing staff required) for a side like Barcelona - I would much rather re-invigorate the side when it's appropriate, akin to how Ferguson did with United every 4-5 years.

    Will miss whoever goes, whenever they go, but we can not stand still and allow other clubs to catch up.
    I think we need to start bringing players in for some positions, we have to remember the current squad are still improving and evolving, and it's taken 3 years of these lads playing together to get to their current level. I think times have changed and I don't think as we play we can bring in players 'off the peg' to replace any of our best 14 or 15 players, I think we have to get those players in starting this summer to contribute immediately, but also at a good age to be approaching their 5 year peak in 2 to 3 years time and it's important we develop them into the team and mentality with the support of the lads we have now, especially for midfield and forwards
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  3. #103
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    I just think the likes of Mane and Salah will just be as awesome as thy are now when they are 31/32.
    I just worry we wont get players in who have the same quality as them 2..Quality being the amount of end product they produce. goal wise. Hopefully Salah will decide against going the Olympics. A rested Mane and Salah for the start of next season,Will be a frightening prospect for the opposition.
    Leader of all..master of none..

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by justme View Post
    I just think the likes of Mane and Salah will just be as awesome as thy are now when they are 31/32.
    I just worry we wont get players in who have the same quality as them 2..Quality being the amount of end product they produce. goal wise. Hopefully Salah will decide against going the Olympics. A rested Mane and Salah for the start of next season,Will be a frightening prospect for the opposition.
    I think we'll likely sign Werner so we have four top quality strikers, I thought a lot of people were looking at Werner the wrong way in the game v Bayern, I thought bar missing the chance, which we know happens to the best as we have had a lot of games we won by the odd goal late on we should have won long before they were, he was excellent.

    I think people need to imagine that player in the position in our team with our best players around them when they're looking at a player and look at his contributions in things our forwards do that will likely be on the data analysis list of things we look for.

    How we play and our mentality and all 11 players always being 'in play' and how hard they work for each other is something I feel is a huge contributory factor to the brilliance of all our players and their ability to play as they do, I don't think most would be able to reach the same levels at another club in a different system with a different manager, we saw that with quite a few of Jurgen's Dortmund players and we saw it with Coutinho as well.
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by justme View Post
    I just think the likes of Mane and Salah will just be as awesome as thy are now when they are 31/32.
    I just worry we wont get players in who have the same quality as them 2..Quality being the amount of end product they produce. goal wise. Hopefully Salah will decide against going the Olympics. A rested Mane and Salah for the start of next season,Will be a frightening prospect for the opposition.
    A lot of Salah and Mane's games are built around speed so when their speed diminishes they won't pose the same threat to defenders. I'd like to think they'll have another 3 seasons at the peak of their powers

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post

    It isn't yet developed like that with Fabinho as a part of it, however, at the moment it suits us to have more rigid positions and responsibilities in some games against the very toughest Champions League and Premier League opponents. In many of these games Hendo will play RCM more rigidly and assist Trent in dealing with players considered a huge threat on our right. Gini will play LCM a lot more rigidly and protect an area which an opposition's sides more creative midfielder might like to occupy and get space in. Fabinho will usually play his advanced destroyer role centrally in this set up, working with Bobby to stop the opposition centre mids getting on the ball and trying to create and release their forwards and more advanced creative midfielder(s).
    Again, you're describing how we play. There is no doubt that we play football. We are playing great football - it obviously has to all fit together.

    But there is so much that happens on the pitch that doesn't exactly fit these descriptions. From any weird shape, odd position, unexpected outcome, we can turn around and suddenly look strong. The 'system' is designed to make us completely unreliant on instruction, desired shape, limited roles, preferred methods. We defend and we attack - in reality the team is operating very close to the boundary of chaos.

    I think that is the intention. The genius is explicitly setting out to create that ability in training. What you're doing, as I see it, is trying to describe it as if it were a clear system, like describing the patterns of water in a waterfall. There are patterns, from certain perspectives, but they are ultimately accidental - there are no known laws for the behaviour of turbulence. Obviously Klopp wants shape and some predictability but ultimately he is trying to set the team free to play instinctively, flowing like water. That's why it doesn't help the opposition to identify the system they are up against, it will liquify itself in response to whatever method they use to counter it.
    Sir what is going on.. things is not going according to plan. u promiss early signing. noting happen. Man u 3 player now

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by justme View Post
    I just think the likes of Mane and Salah will just be as awesome as thy are now when they are 31/32.
    I just worry we wont get players in who have the same quality as them 2..Quality being the amount of end product they produce. goal wise. Hopefully Salah will decide against going the Olympics. A rested Mane and Salah for the start of next season,Will be a frightening prospect for the opposition.
    I know you mean I guess it depends what they are like next season some look at players at 30-32 & think that is it.

    Completely wrong like at Messi/Ronaldo both still producing the goods and like the two above keep themselves in fantastic shape.....its why the likes of Maddison as an example wont reach the top going to Dubai getting smashed I cant imagine any of them 4 or an Mbappe doing that.

    Also on Salah since he joined us he is miles ahead on goals/assists than anyone else, he has scored around 70 PL goals and 24-25 of them were in data terms key goals either putting us 1-0 up or winning goals in a 2-1, 1-0, 3-2 etc he is a huge player for us and he is greedy/selfish at times but his stats speak for themselves and this coming from me who thinks Mane is better !

    Anyway Timo will be here soon to ease the workload !

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taksin View Post
    Again, you're describing how we play. There is no doubt that we play football. We are playing great football - it obviously has to all fit together.

    But there is so much that happens on the pitch that doesn't exactly fit these descriptions. From any weird shape, odd position, unexpected outcome, we can turn around and suddenly look strong. The 'system' is designed to make us completely unreliant on instruction, desired shape, limited roles, preferred methods. We defend and we attack - in reality the team is operating very close to the boundary of chaos.
    No it isn't Taskin, I think you're a million miles off, we have a very clear system and way of playing and very clear practiced passages of play, we are better A LOT better without the ball than any team in world football, when we regain possession in the oppositions final third is when the players make it up themselves, the players have obvious clear instruction on breaking and who leads breaks from regains of possession from opposition set pieces.

    The passage you quoted absolutely did not lean at all to your ideas, it presented and very clear and rigid formation, a very clear set up with players in set positions with very defined responsibilities, you're confusing yourself with what happens when we win the ball back in the oppositions final third
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post

    The passage you quoted absolutely did not lean at all to your ideas, it presented and very clear and rigid formation, a very clear set up with players in set positions with very defined responsibilities, you're confusing yourself with what happens when we win the ball back in the oppositions final third
    No I'm not - it's actually when we are attacking from our own goal line that the chaos looks most inexplicable and brilliant. When a defender passes to Ma Salah running at a hundred miles an hour from his own corner flag it doesn't look that systematic, even though it is by your definition. But you are telling me I am wrong without understanding my point. That's fine, it's virtually paradoxical, which is why I tried to explain using golf metaphors. I'm not sure if you play golf.

    I agree with you that we are better than any other team in the world when off the ball. I agree we play three at the front and four in defence, that we have some clear instructions given to either Fabinho or Henderson. I agree he changes formation during games to alter events. I agree things are working really well with the team cohesion, training and automatic activity, tactics even.

    What I'm saying is there's something else happening more important that these things. What you're doing happens in golf all the time - PGA registered golf instructors analyse the top golfers, think they understand what is happening (which they do) but don't realise that it can't be replicated in whoever their student is. That's because everyone is different - they end up ruining people's careers that way.

    Obviously you are not doing that but what you're saying about the clear system is at odds with what Minamino said the other day - 'Klopp told me to play exactly the way I want to play'. That is genius. And he isn't saying that to Minamino in the way 'Arry Redknapp used to say it to his players - 'Go on son, get out there and enjoy yourself'. He is much cleverer than that. He is a genius and Redknapp wasn't.

    He is, in my view, operating a meta-system, which is virtually systemless. That's its beauty. There are only a few footballing meta-systems I can think of; Ajax's 'total football', our very own 'pass and move', Barcelona's 'tiki taka'. They got those names because something was happening beyond the normal rules of formations and systems. We can agree that they are in some way a system, but they also describe something else happening, which was credited with creating unusual levels of success. That's what I am trying to describe with Klopp's method.

    This team is almost happier when the whole game is out of shape and chaotic. It functions better. We are dying for teams to attack us - not because we are a counter attacking team but because every player is dying to make sense out of chaos. We are better in chaos than any other team and love it when they over extend themselves. These features are very unusual and they stop teams that are more skilful and powerful, like Man City from knowing what the hell to do against us.

    Anyway, that's my view. I don't mind if you disagree. Just thought it was worth saying.
    Sir what is going on.. things is not going according to plan. u promiss early signing. noting happen. Man u 3 player now

  10. #110
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    We'll agree to disagree Taskin, I think there are numerous elements of freedom and creativity and players working together on things to evolve the system and themselves, but I think we have always had a system under Jurgen, he's given the players freedom to put ideas forward and try to work things out, but the chaos element comes from how good we are without the ball and the positions in which we win it and that comes from the system we play, what comes after it is free and creative because they're not rehearsed situations and causes chaos for opposition sides because they can't plan for those situations.

    There has been a clear evolution of the system and how we play, Jurgen, the staff and players have put a lot of hard work into rotation of the front three this season in particular, 2 seasons ago we were playing quite rigidly with our front 3 and what they did, it worked, but as teams got better at trying to stop our players in their set positions a lot of games were like a war of attrition, we'd keep doing the same things in the same areas, quite predictably, until one of them came off, that's all changed now, but it has been worked on as part of our system
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

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