Thread: Summer transfer thread

  1. #1471
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    I honestly think we need a CB to play as a starting CB with VVD. That’s all I can think of, Werner would have been nice, but as cover? For 50m?

    None of us are multimillionaires, unless there’s one or two lurking between us, but look at how they have rejuvenated the Red Sox. I have faith that they know what they’re doing financially and if we don’t spend big this transfer window...I won’t be too bothered.

    I do feel things maybe being done behind locked sound proof doors. So much of our business gets leaked nowadays and other clubs are going to just put up the cash to prevent us from negotiating and not necessarily needing that player to strengthen their team.

    We’re in a good place right now.

  2. #1472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious View Post
    1. Good question - I think there will be cash that is "ear-marked" for things. One example of this is player contracts that expire in-and-around 2023 - Wijnaldum, Salah, Mane, Van Dijk, Firmino, Fabinho, Keita, Hendo, Ox all have contracts that expire around then (I may need to go back and check specifics but let's assume, until I'm otherwise corrected, that that info is right) - we have to factor in the wages that these guys will be earning (with wages likely to increase) as well as the possibility of bonuses (let's pretend a contract has a 20% bonus for a League win and that FSG have to assume we win to cover bases for the most "expensive" scenario) and as well as these wages, there's the fees to the agents which are large to say the least when such things are negotiated, particularly if a contract is going to be a "one last pay-day" type contract. Bear in mind we are doing this in an environment where we have no real grasp of revenue streams (when will fans be allowed back in, will all television stations honour contracts as financially hit folks cancel subscriptions, will sponsors be paying out to their fullest or trying to reduce pay-out deals) or how much loss might occur from as-yet-unknowns such as voiding of tournaments. We'll have money ear-marked for more things with Kirkby, money ear-marked for further stadium expansion, money ear-marked for further sponsorship deals to make up for those we have lost (Western Union are no longer a sponsor for example) and catering for wage increases from those who are pushing for first-team positions - not to mention the agent fees for THOSE negotiations as well. As a general rule agent fee / player wage / staff wage costs go up and up and up in a competitive market, where we are faced with revenue streams potentially stagnating or decreasing, plus stadium/Kirkby costs to factor in - which includes non-playing staff too - our wages are something like £310m a year all-in and that will only go up.

    So that plays a part.

    2. I'm not averse to spending - but I think spending needs to be justified. 97 points, 99 points. Let's say we bought Mbappe for £200m and finished on 100 points - was the £200m (not to mention the wages we would have to pay for the duration of a contract) "worth" getting one more point? I'd say not. Our current "level" if you will is that we are capable of challenging for the Premier League, with every chance of winning it - and capable of challenging for the Champion's League, with every chance of winning it. Realistically, without "sportswashing" that is as high a level as you can achieve - I would rather we sit on what money we have and purchase when the level shows signs of going down relative to what's around us. Chelsea will be better, yes. United will be better, yes. But will they close the gap enough in 20/21 to threaten our position as a League and European-Cup challenging team? It's a resounding no from me - I could be proven wrong of course, but I think both sides need AT LEAST another season - so why not "keep the powder dry" until 21/22 so we can spend when we actually "NEED" to, to increase the gap again?

    That's my two cents. As long as we are able to challenge, massive spending isn't required. Where spending should come in is when you need to make a gap over a rival bigger (we finished 33 points ahead of United!!!!) or you need to close a gap on a rival (we finished 17 points ahead of City). People can point to our Atletico tie and say "ah, but if we had spent and we had better players....." but Cup football doesn't work that way - look at our side in 04/05 compared to the Juventus, Chelsea or AC Milan sides we defeated. Look at Di Matteo's run with Chelsea which included beating excellent Barcelona and Bayern Munich sides.

    The other time to spend is when the side needs refreshed and for me, in an era where elite players can shine for longer than before, that isn't yet necessary. In 2 seasons time I could foresee the sale of one of the front three, but we certainly don't need to tear up the side and start over just yet - we can squeeze a LOT more juice from this team yet!


    Just to add to this as well (as different points are getting strewn throughout different posts by multiple users all loosely discussing the same conversational thread) I'm aware you aren't anti-FSG, but there is some FSG-scepticism around from some of our fanbase, which is an opinion they're of course entitled to, much as you and I disagree with their stance.
    1) I think wages and fees have hit a pinnacle of sorts. Im sure theyll rise again but at a guess not like they have done.
    The tv market/money seems to have plateaud and that was the main driver of increases in revenue imo. Without revenue gains, wages cant keep expanding.
    Expanding into new or simply getting into existing markets (like brazil) with Nike should be good for our finances.
    Capital investments are excempted from FFP iirc and with our owners the loans have been provided. Any further stadium expansion would follow similarly, not a major impact on transfers etc. There are enough profits posted under klopp to pay off the total costs of the new stand and training complex with money left over.
    Fans are due back in the uk for october, if not id imagine the clubs will be able to find a tv package where every pl game is shown $$. If the tv deals are voided, then the club could take their games in house therell still be a massive global advertising interest. Smaller pl clubs could get a bump from playing lfc etc but lfc would get a better return than beforehand. It would be disruptive but i cant see broadcasters risking losing such a huge ticket.
    Its hard to know, but id bet on optimism.

    2) i dont see it as you do, its not adding a say mkopface for 1 extra point in the league.
    Its about adding the players that will be here beyond others here already ie younger ones, to be active regulars and waiting replacements. Its also about being better positioned to win more titles.

    Presently we have a really great group of peak age players and a great side. Front 3, Gini hendo, Vvd to add to the younger players. Adding some real impact quality would freshen things up imo.

    Real won 3 cl in a row, beating us with bale on the bench. LFC have never done a double in the modern CL and its been some time since we did a european double/back2back, or a big double in a year pl & cl.
    If our domestic rivals are someway off us as per your and others insinuation and as per your view iirc bayern are our biggest threat in next seasons cl. Well that looks like a great position to strengthen from imo.
    Make our pl rivals task more daunting and look at europe as a potential goldmine in coming seasons.

    This group of players have worked really hard to get here, think the club should back them and Jurgen.
    Give them the best possible platform to match previous great sides title counts. Could trent overtake neal kind of thinking on medal counts, could mkopface rival Kennys medal count.

    When youre pl champions you shouldnt be looking to be competitive, you should be looking to be dominant.
    We of course will have to add less expensive players and bring youth players through.
    But we have money and ambition to do more. The actual perch is a little higher than where we are presently.

    I think fsg can always be questioned. Im of the opinion theyve done a very good job and credit Klopp massively. Klopp the clear driver of success imo.
    As pointed out earlier theyve made tidy profits and the return on their initial investment is steep.
    So when it comes to investing on players i think people have a valid point. Theyve stated money wouldnt be taken out of the club.
    So when i see massive profits posted, i see a reserve of money at Klopps call.
    Investors can forego dividends when their capital investment has grown massively. Given the footballing landscape/our rivals its a good time to go for titles.

    As dicko alluded to we will be ffp compliant to avoid fines, we'll play the poor lidl superclub role, buy bargains too, but repeating ali/vvd wr signings shouldnt be beyond us either. Nor should we expect other clubs to buy the poor us mantra.
    They can accept our limits and players can continue to go for lfc or no one in their desires.

    What i find a little funny is that on the forum i believe many would sanction a big fee for khoulibali, hes 29. Too old imo for the bucks involved.
    But have doubts about mbappe for around double that fee, with many years ahead of him.

  3. #1473
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    What i find a little funny is that on the forum i believe many would sanction a big fee for khoulibali, hes 29. Too old imo for the bucks involved.
    But have doubts about mbappe for around double that fee, with many years ahead of him.
    I think most people would love to have Mbappe here, but would have concerns over the "hidden" effects of an Mbappe transfer.

    Let's say he comes here, at a cost of £180m - and to come here wants £240k per week, with his agent having had to be given a £10m fee to negotiate the deal.

    That in itself is a lot of outlay, which some may consider "worth it" because of his trajectory.

    However, if Mbappe arrives on £240k per week having not done anything with the squad yet (didn't help us win the Champion's League or the League etc) then Salah says "hold up, I want a £250k per week deal" and Mane says "I wouldn't mind parity with Salah thanks, as I am boss" - and on and on that goes.

    Wages then become an unhealthy percentage of income expenditure and we become a side that, before you know it, is incapable of signing a player on reasonable wages - just take a look at United - De Gea is on £375k per week, Martial on £250k per week and so on.

    I can only speak for myself, but that's where the "issue" so-to-speak with Mbappe lies.
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  4. #1474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious View Post
    I think most people would love to have Mbappe here, but would have concerns over the "hidden" effects of an Mbappe transfer.

    Let's say he comes here, at a cost of £180m - and to come here wants £240k per week, with his agent having had to be given a £10m fee to negotiate the deal.

    That in itself is a lot of outlay, which some may consider "worth it" because of his trajectory.

    However, if Mbappe arrives on £240k per week having not done anything with the squad yet (didn't help us win the Champion's League or the League etc) then Salah says "hold up, I want a £250k per week deal" and Mane says "I wouldn't mind parity with Salah thanks, as I am boss" - and on and on that goes.

    Wages then become an unhealthy percentage of income expenditure and we become a side that, before you know it, is incapable of signing a player on reasonable wages - just take a look at United - De Gea is on £375k per week, Martial on £250k per week and so on.

    I can only speak for myself, but that's where the "issue" so-to-speak with Mbappe lies.
    Didnt Virgil walk in on a whopper wage too, hasnt caused many issues. Even poor pep couldnt match our terms

    Did ox signing see Trent demand parity. Dont think it did. Trent will see bigger wages no doubt.

    Id say signing Mkopface for 10k less a week than martial and 110k less per week than ddg leading to your scenario of being unable to keep a reasonable wage bill is a little unreasonable itself

    Degea and Martial big wages imo probably down to a desperation to keep them at an underperforming club.

    If Mbappe were to arrive under your detailed conditions, it would be quiet simple. He is a commercial cash cow. By bringing in commercial cash hes worth more.
    People can scoff all they like about it, but dems the facts.

    If Salah and Mane strop for a move (would seem a little unlikely imo) well that in time could be to the clubs benefit shpuld they seek to sell one for cash.
    It might happen in time anyway, but i couldnt see it occuring for at least 2 years maybe 3.

    As much as I LOVE Origi i actually think the regulars would be quite excited to see Mbappe coming into the club.
    If hes paid a bit more as a means of climbing ever higher, I cant see it being a problem.
    My guess trent walks in and rather than Mbappe, would say look at what ox is earning

  5. #1475
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    It seems klopps meticulous profiling of players personality prior to signing and the ethos hes created would unravel to shit instantly were we to sign Mkopface

    I personally think the players would be thrilled rather than succumbed with envy.

  6. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDOC1979 View Post
    I honestly think we need a CB to play as a starting CB with VVD. That’s all I can think of, Werner would have been nice, but as cover? For 50m?

    None of us are multimillionaires, unless there’s one or two lurking between us, but look at how they have rejuvenated the Red Sox. I have faith that they know what they’re doing financially and if we don’t spend big this transfer window...I won’t be too bothered.

    I do feel things maybe being done behind locked sound proof doors. So much of our business gets leaked nowadays and other clubs are going to just put up the cash to prevent us from negotiating and not necessarily needing that player to strengthen their team.

    We’re in a good place right now.
    Sorry mate..but i thought we had put that type of thinking to bed......Werner was competition not "COVER"...... We have the youngsters to provide cover..if we spend money it should be on Starters who make the established starters shit themselves...!

  7. #1477
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    Quote Originally Posted by shminkyred View Post
    Sorry mate..but i thought we had put that type of thinking to bed......Werner was competition not "COVER"...... We have the youngsters to provide cover..if we spend money it should be on Starters who make the established starters shit themselves...!
    Exactly. I want two world class players for each position and have the best kids 3rd back up. (I'm not asking for much )!!

  8. #1478
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    Quote Originally Posted by shminkyred View Post
    Sorry mate..but i thought we had put that type of thinking to bed......Werner was competition not "COVER"...... We have the youngsters to provide cover..if we spend money it should be on Starters who make the established starters shit themselves...!
    Being realistic mate. I don’t think any of our front three would have liked to start off the bench.

    Disharmony is easily created and then shit hits the fan. If players, nowadays had the mind set of being benched is “ok” then yes, have a pop at a quality player.

    I’d rather splash the cash on a world class CB. Matip is actually good, but injury prone. Gomez isn’t quite up to the level..yet, but could do with learning from others. Lovren has departed so I think that should be our priority. (Spending “big”)

  9. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDOC1979 View Post
    Being realistic mate. I don’t think any of our front three would have liked to start off the bench.

    Disharmony is easily created and then shit hits the fan. If players, nowadays had the mind set of being benched is “ok” then yes, have a pop at a quality player.

    I’d rather splash the cash on a world class CB. Matip is actually good, but injury prone. Gomez isn’t quite up to the level..yet, but could do with learning from others. Lovren has departed so I think that should be our priority. (Spending “big”)
    Who would you spend big on to dislodge matip/gomez ?

    Id spend a few quid on the irish lovren

  10. #1480
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    Who would you spend big on to dislodge matip/gomez ?

    Id spend a few quid on the irish lovren
    Diego Carlos. Not sure if he plays both centre back positions. i think so. But last night he played the left side. He looked like he was doing an impression of VVD. Super organiser too.

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