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Thread: Summer transfer thread

  1. #1941
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    1,797
    Our season was interrupted by Covid. It interrupted our momentum and took the edge off the urgency as a result. Before that we dominated in a way that no team has ever dominated this league and we were definitely better than the season before.

  2. #1942
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    8,772
    Perhaps but our form went before Covid Taksin. Players were smashed physically and mentally. One could argue the opposite and that the break helped us regain some energy. But no way to really tell.

    The football was the same standard - the challenge from City was far far less. Does this Liverpool beat the Liverpool from the season prior..? Who knows.. Splitting hairs.
    Last edited by Steveo; 4th September 2020 at 09:31 AM.

  3. #1943
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    15,117
    Of course I want us to improve Steveo, but that's a general point.

    We currently have a side that can compete for the League and can compete for the Champion's League, having had two 90+ point League seasons and 2 Champion's League finals in 3 years. If we "stand still" on the pitch next season, we probably go deep in Europe and probably compete for the Title. That's good going.

    It's not about not wanting us to improve if we can (though it is difficult to improve on being a record-breaking side Honestly) so much as wanting to be sensible about our path forwards for the long-term sustainability for the club. I'm going to use a couple of entirely fictional/hypothetical examples here, so bear with, but imagine for talk's sake we did purchase Fekir and Pepe and there was little to no quantifiable progress (still finished with a 90+ points finish, still competitive in Europe) and then Klopp/analytics staff find an area of the pitch where a difference can be made (let's say there is a midfielder out there that analytics suggest has the defensive prowess of Mascherano, attacking prowess of Gerrard and is a good fit for the system, plus is 23 so has years in the tank) and the Hierarchy say "nah, you spunked £125m only recently and we want to have money in the tank as a buffer against future unforeseen circumstances, money for agents for contracts, money for wages, money Yadda Yadda, so no, sorry" - we would be pretty gutted.

    I want improvement, but I want intelligence and a sense of efficiency about it, so that should we identify someone that can truly advance the side in the way that the arrivals of Alisson and Van Dijk did, that we can do it there. There's little point for example (in a regular season where there's no Covid so there isn't a match every 3 days*) in having a Pepe or a Sancho sitting on the bench on £140,000k per week wages when they are being used in rotation akin to Origi. There is however value (speculating massively!) in being shrewd with cash, selling a 30-year old Salah and using that cash plus some we have had in reserve for bringing in an Mbappe level talent. Not that I think we would do that as we culturally don't buy "superstars" but you get the premise.

    The game interests me much more than the financial side of things, but there's no getting away from the finance stuff really, it's a part of the sport and has been since '92 and has only gotten more prominent since Abramovich's arrival, then that of Sheikh Mansour and then that of FFP - can't be ignored really. Doesn't detract from my love of the game and doesn't mean I don't want to see us get better, but it's hard to get better than our current level.

    We have cover in almost every position and we try to get the balance right in terms of giving Youth a chance. If your strength in depth is too strong you waste a lot of talent whilst simultaneously putting up major obstacles for those Youths wanting to get into the first team, which would be a shame when we are going to be creating talents like Trent, Jones, Brewster via our set-up. It's a massive juggling act and I think we're doing a pretty good job, especially given that our system is the Star and we don't "need" £100m+ players just now.

    Where would you see us improve?

  4. #1944
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    1,797
    Both seasons were excellent achievements. Last season we made the league unwinnable for anyone else. That was in part the result of our improved mental strength.

    Carrying that mental strength forward is a part of the managerís job. Something he excels at. So Sid is right to speculate about Fekir messing up the balance. It would appear we didnít sign him because he wasnít right for one reason or another, but not because the owners are tight-fisted. The signing was done.

    All this chat is the same old panic about under investment from fans who want big name signings to drool over. But maybe Klopp likes Curtis Jones and is happy to take his time with the jigsaw puzzle.

    All this talk also ignores the fact that we are going into a season without fans - a shocking and absurd state of affairs. None of us knows the financial impact it will have but we do know that supporters give our club an edge that has been stolen from us. That is the biggest injustice facing the club right now - not underinvestment.

    We have the best team in the world right now but it has had its 12th man ripped out of it. Watching Chelsea fielding multi million pound starlets in exhibition friendlies with piped music is about the least inspiring thought i can come up with in my head. I canít even be arsed to take our title ambitions seriously under these conditions. It isnít really football.

  5. #1945
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    1,797
    There seems to be an attitude that the owners are not serious if they donít spend huge amounts of money. £50 million is the new £20 million. £90 million is the new £35 million.

    Does anyone have any idea whatís itís like to write a check for that amount of money? Wouldnít it be prudent to be careful with it?

    Pepť cost arsenal £70 to £80 million didn't he? Heís shite. Thatís the kind of signing we used to make. So whatís the measure of our improvement - spending big or being much cleverer in the market?

  6. #1946
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious View Post
    Of course I want us to improve Steveo, but that's a general point.

    We currently have a side that can compete for the League and can compete for the Champion's League, having had two 90+ point League seasons and 2 Champion's League finals in 3 years. If we "stand still" on the pitch next season, we probably go deep in Europe and probably compete for the Title. That's good going.

    It's not about not wanting us to improve if we can (though it is difficult to improve on being a record-breaking side Honestly) so much as wanting to be sensible about our path forwards for the long-term sustainability for the club. I'm going to use a couple of entirely fictional/hypothetical examples here, so bear with, but imagine for talk's sake we did purchase Fekir and Pepe and there was little to no quantifiable progress (still finished with a 90+ points finish, still competitive in Europe) and then Klopp/analytics staff find an area of the pitch where a difference can be made (let's say there is a midfielder out there that analytics suggest has the defensive prowess of Mascherano, attacking prowess of Gerrard and is a good fit for the system, plus is 23 so has years in the tank) and the Hierarchy say "nah, you spunked £125m only recently and we want to have money in the tank as a buffer against future unforeseen circumstances, money for agents for contracts, money for wages, money Yadda Yadda, so no, sorry" - we would be pretty gutted.

    I want improvement, but I want intelligence and a sense of efficiency about it, so that should we identify someone that can truly advance the side in the way that the arrivals of Alisson and Van Dijk did, that we can do it there. There's little point for example (in a regular season where there's no Covid so there isn't a match every 3 days*) in having a Pepe or a Sancho sitting on the bench on £140,000k per week wages when they are being used in rotation akin to Origi. There is however value (speculating massively!) in being shrewd with cash, selling a 30-year old Salah and using that cash plus some we have had in reserve for bringing in an Mbappe level talent. Not that I think we would do that as we culturally don't buy "superstars" but you get the premise.

    The game interests me much more than the financial side of things, but there's no getting away from the finance stuff really, it's a part of the sport and has been since '92 and has only gotten more prominent since Abramovich's arrival, then that of Sheikh Mansour and then that of FFP - can't be ignored really. Doesn't detract from my love of the game and doesn't mean I don't want to see us get better, but it's hard to get better than our current level.

    We have cover in almost every position and we try to get the balance right in terms of giving Youth a chance. If your strength in depth is too strong you waste a lot of talent whilst simultaneously putting up major obstacles for those Youths wanting to get into the first team, which would be a shame when we are going to be creating talents like Trent, Jones, Brewster via our set-up. It's a massive juggling act and I think we're doing a pretty good job, especially given that our system is the Star and we don't "need" £100m+ players just now.

    Where would you see us improve?
    OK - but this is all hypothesis..what, if and maybe. If you are honestly suggesting that we are so good we can't find anywhere to improve then you are out on your own.

    You say we have cover for every position and I cannot agree. Ditto any of the front 3. Where is cover for Trent? how about Hendo - who has become so integral? We have players who c an come on but they do not function at nearly the same level. Why not address that now before we are caught cold?

  7. #1947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taksin View Post
    There seems to be an attitude that the owners are not serious if they don’t spend huge amounts of money. £50 million is the new £20 million. £90 million is the new £35 million.

    Does anyone have any idea what’s it’s like to write a check for that amount of money? Wouldn’t it be prudent to be careful with it?

    Pepť cost arsenal £70 to £80 million didn't he? He’s shite. That’s the kind of signing we used to make. So what’s the measure of our improvement - spending big or being much cleverer in the market?
    He is shite? has he been worse than Keita? A little premature to judge the guy isn't it? Also why the fixation with Pepe..? What about that Portuguese fella at United - Fernandes..? Is he shite too? You buy players and some are great and some are not - Some were great before you bought them and they don't click...There seems to be a belief from some - that unless an absolutely guaranteed 100% perfect player is going to be out there - we can't move. In reality there never is that perfect player.
    Last edited by Steveo; 4th September 2020 at 10:22 AM.

  8. #1948
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    May 2005
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    Teesside
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taksin View Post
    There seems to be an attitude that the owners are not serious if they donít spend huge amounts of money. £50 million is the new £20 million. £90 million is the new £35 million.

    Does anyone have any idea whatís itís like to write a check for that amount of money? Wouldnít it be prudent to be careful with it?

    Pepť cost arsenal £70 to £80 million didn't he? Heís shite. Thatís the kind of signing we used to make. So whatís the measure of our improvement - spending big or being much cleverer in the market?
    Again I dont think fans are after that. It's just an urge to see continual improvement, obviously that has been the case for a few seasons now but with the additions of good quality players.
    There are a couple of areas in the side that need attention. We arent suddenly going to drop off a cliff but its unrealistic to expect the same performance level for another season. It's a natural human instinct for a plateau or drop in standard once it's been at its peak.
    A couple of good additions can quell that.

  9. #1949
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    Nov 2004
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    in the past
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    We need to strengthen and have more depth. You could argue that we'll be going into this season weaker from a squad depth perspective. Lovren has gone (I wasn't a fan) but I'd pick him over Nat Phillips. Lallana has gone, even with his injuries he showed some value last season.

    We've had youngester promoted to the 1st team but do we really know what to expect?

    I'm not ok our midfield even with Henderson. If we play Milner, Gini and Fab - as we lose a lot with those three effectively "holding" players. Keita has injury issues.

    I "understand" our the approach of the owners but we've worked our way to the top. We need to find a way of "financing" transfers otherwise I agree with Steveo , it's not sustainable.
    "...and my inch is like a freight train, so I only use it in self defence"

  10. #1950
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesred View Post
    Again I dont think fans are after that. It's just an urge to see continual improvement, obviously that has been the case for a few seasons now but with the additions of good quality players.
    There are a couple of areas in the side that need attention. We arent suddenly going to drop off a cliff but its unrealistic to expect the same performance level for another season. It's a natural human instinct for a plateau or drop in standard once it's been at its peak.
    A couple of good additions can quell that.
    Precisely - none of us want the club to go out and spunk it all on Messi - just bring in some quality cover and genuine rotational options as the club always did in the past when on top. We don't want players breaking down with no options behind them.

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