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Thread: Summer transfer thread

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    Hmm and a quick recap of a couple of others, wanted Kompany to replace Carra the season UEA FC signed him BEFORE the billionaire takeover, wanted Virgil from Celtic when Rodgers bought Lovren.

    There are a lot of thought experiments here every single day, that's what forums and opinions are all about, I've always backed and rated Hendo, since he came to the club in 2011, most other people didn't rate him and persistently slated him and were moving him on last summer even after his reintroduction to the side was the catalyst for our end of season run that culminated in our winning the Champions League. Whereas I, and I was pretty much alone in this, insisted that Hendo would be absolutely vital to everything we wanted to achieve and an integral player, so excuse me for generally being an excellent judge of players and what's required for players to contribute to our side functioning at it's best

    I don't expect a lot of people to get it, as there are an awful lot of people here and alleged professional pundits and even some of our former greats who really don't understand our system and the intricacies of it and the entirety of what's involved in how good we have been. There are equally a lot of people who think football is Championship manager and don't understand balance, steak and sizzle and that loading a team with a lot of attacking players with very similar qualities isn't a winning formula

    I genuinely find things like that a bit sad to be honest Taskin, it's delving into Red4Life territory of finding one thing up that someone posted 11 years ago, tad pathetic if you ask me, I'm not sat here pointing in the direction of the clown who started a genuine 'How long has Klopp got' thread in 2017-2018

    Oh and Coutniho Fabian Ruiz would offer us far more as a team than Coutinho ever did or ever could
    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    Or maybe here, when I call pretty much every single thing that has transpired this season and why, but yeah, I know fuck all about players or the game and don't understand it very well at all, unlike all the captain hindsight's

    http://forums.lfconline.co.uk/showthread.php?262252-Man-City-Top-4-Battle-Team-Discussion
    I think I started both those threads the unnamed thread starter and the man city top4 one, did I start both threads 19 ?

    Seems a bit shitty or principally inconsistent not pointing out who you are talking about, having named red4life who doesn't post much on here anymore - in a 'calling out manner'.
    Personally I prefer names being offered.

    I think I started a thread in response to red4life perhaps, about a post of his suggesting fans would turn on Klopp (not that he wanted that, if it was him).
    I started a thread (poll too?) to gauge the mood to demonstrate my belief.
    I thought reds suggestion was a bit ridiculous and if it is me you're talking about, then you are incorrect on the genuine thread.
    If not, spit it out man, who you on about ?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    Horses head in the bed?
    A detailed explanation of why they need to reduce their player talent pool to increase their odds at winning the CL would suffice.
    Needs must I suppose
    Last edited by CCTV; 11th February 2020 at 08:47 PM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    I think I started both those threads the unnamed thread starter and the man city top4 one, did I start both threads 19 ?

    Seems a bit shitty or principally inconsistent not pointing out who you are talking about, having named red4life who doesn't post much on here anymore - in a 'calling out manner'.
    Personally I prefer names being offered.

    I think I started a thread in response to red4life perhaps, about a post of his suggesting fans would turn on Klopp (not that he wanted that, if it was him).
    I started a thread (poll too?) to gauge the mood to demonstrate my belief.
    I thought reds suggestion was a bit ridiculous and if it is me you're talking about, then you are incorrect on the genuine thread.
    If not, spit it out man, who you on about ?
    I don't know who started the thread on Jurgen, that's why I didn't name them, you weren't here in the 'dark days' of this forum, Red4life must have chilled out an awful lot in his old age, back in 2008-2012 he would regularly follow me and others if I recall correctly, who disagreed with him or had changed their mind on a subject or a player around pretty much every thread they posted on, positing off topic and quoting things they'd posted 4 or 5 years ago, you weren't allowed to say "Yes I did say that, but this or that has happened since then and I've changed my opinion as people do" oh no, none of that, "NO IN 2008 YOU POSTED THIS! ! !" the forum was rife with such behaviour and really very toxic then which is why so many left or took a leave of absence

    Bit like Taskin popping up with "In 2009 you said THIS! ! !" all very unsavoury and unecessary and childish if you ask me
    Last edited by Nineteenx; 11th February 2020 at 08:52 PM.
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post

    even some of our former greats who really don't understand our system and the intricacies of it and the entirety of what's involved in how good we have been. There are equally a lot of people who think football is Championship manager and don't understand balance, steak and sizzle and that loading a team with a lot of attacking players with very similar qualities isn't a winning formula

    D'you know what pal.. and I am being serious here. I've started to think the genius of Klopp is that he doesn't really have a system. It's a kind of meta-system that doesn't actually require players to fit into it. The system fits into them.

    We've had a clue about this because Minamino said Klopp told him to play exactly the way he wants to play. That is, on the surface, complete freedom, which players lose under most other managers. Obviously Klopp will point out things he can do better as they go along. Then I'd imagine they all have certain responsibilities in defence when the shape has been torn apart by the attack and the opponents have the ball. When your two full backs are bombing forward, you need to cover the gaps left behind.

    Other than that, what is the system?

    something like;

    When on a counter attack, Mo will be bombing forwards. Get it to him by the fastest means.
    Use Firmino to help with that.
    If Mané is in space, give it to him.
    Run in directions that stretch their defence.
    Play like yourselves - if something creative strikes you, go for it.
    Shoot if you have the chance - hopefully it will go in.
    When they have the ball, harass them with every inch of your muscle. Keep a good defensive team shape whilst doing that.
    Play a good balance of attack minded and defensive minded players.

    The system is oriented towards giving the players as much responsibility as possible. That's one of the reasons Klopp enjoys watching them so much - he's prepared to be surprised.
    Sir what is going on.. things is not going according to plan. u promiss early signing. noting happen. Man u 3 player now

  5. #45
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    Danny "The D-Head" Mills on TalkCrud saying that we need to strengthen/kick on (apparently like Man U did) and that players like VVD, Firmino etc could look to move elsewhere.

    People like Mills know sweet FA about anything including the game they played for 20 odd years. He also said that Neymar only moved for money, when it is well known that he wanted to get out of Messi's shadow and win the 'Baloon Door'.

    They amount of times I've heard that some of our players could want to go to Madrid/Barca, we've been 'lucky, Klopp has spent lots of money, we 'celebrated' a draw against WBA, Bobby's surname is Firminio etc, etc is asounding...... how any of these 'know nothings' get a job in the media (other than having their tongues up someones backside) I'll never know.

    He also had a pop at us asking if Guardiola or Moyes would do what we did and play an U23 side in the rearranged league game. He really is an A grade ****.

  6. #46
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    "we need to kick on" whattttt like win the champions league one season and the league the next?? still be in Champions league and the fa-cup? Anyway I hope we play more of our first team players for the Fa-cup.. I'd like to get past Chelsea.
    Leader of all..master of none..

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedNoodle View Post
    Danny "The D-Head" Mills on TalkCrud saying that we need to strengthen/kick on (apparently like Man U did) and that players like VVD, Firmino etc could look to move elsewhere.

    People like Mills know sweet FA about anything including the game they played for 20 odd years. He also said that Neymar only moved for money, when it is well known that he wanted to get out of Messi's shadow and win the 'Baloon Door'.

    They amount of times I've heard that some of our players could want to go to Madrid/Barca, we've been 'lucky, Klopp has spent lots of money, we 'celebrated' a draw against WBA, Bobby's surname is Firminio etc, etc is asounding...... how any of these 'know nothings' get a job in the media (other than having their tongues up someones backside) I'll never know.

    He also had a pop at us asking if Guardiola or Moyes would do what we did and play an U23 side in the rearranged league game. He really is an A grade ****.
    What's he talking about, there was only 2 changes from his regular eleven when we played West Ham.
    There are only 2 teams in Liverpool. Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves. (Bill Shankly)

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taksin View Post
    D'you know what pal.. and I am being serious here. I've started to think the genius of Klopp is that he doesn't really have a system.
    He definitely does have a system, it's not a system as people understand systems, where teams have a certain way they play and players that if you stop one or two of, you can stop them playing, it became even more fluid when Hendo was at No6 at the midfield 3 were rotating position and assuming each others position a lot throughout each game. The full backs don't always both bomb on. The system is tweaked for certain sides. One of THE most exciting thing about this team is that we can be brilliant in different ways albeit with familiar patterns (patterns which the players have often mentioned having worked at on the training pitch)

    One of the issues we had in the clear system with Fabinho and his high pressing is the midfield 3 didn't rotate and he played very centrally leaving a hole and teams looked to exploit that hole with players making outside in diagonal runs to be found in it, with the two wide players simultaneously springing to quickly give them a 3 or 4 v 2 or 3 running at our defence.

    They also exploited our right hand side very well because he isn't a true DM No6 and doesn't operate right across the width of the pitch as Hendo does and teams had learned to do both those things very well until Hendo came back in and were able to instantly do it to us again causing us real problems in games in which Hendo was subbed early this season, to the extent Jurgen had to make more subs specifically to stop it. So that is an example of our system as it was and players operating in set rigid areas that opposition sides could set up to exploit, through countering from defending or from pressing high trying to get a win back and counter from that, which unfortunately was very evident on Fabinho's return v Southampton.

    There are certain set things the players have to do, but Jurgen gives them a lot of responsibility for using things they have learned in games and worked on in training and working out how to win games in different ways using them from within the formation and system, that's why watching them is so brilliant, sometimes, if you pay attention to post match interviews, it's very apparent when we've been so much better second half that the players haven't found the solution by themselves and Jurgen has had to remind them of one or two patterns of play they had worked on and developed for such opposition and hadn't tried.

    Maybe you don't recognise it as a system because it's very fluid and there are tactical tweaks to it for nearly every game and we can play differently and win games in different ways in every game, but there absolutely is a system. A good example of a tweak and both full backs pushing very high constantly in that game and the reason for that tweak I could use is the second game against Leicester. Leicester play with one up top, Vardy, given we leave our CB's 2v2 at the back in a lot of games, v Leicester we were very comfortable leaving Virgil and Gomez 2v1 against Vardy at the back and pushing up very high on them to dominate the ball in their half, stop them playing their passing game and press and counter press to quickly win back the ball any time we lost possession.

    Our pressing isn't just a case of everyone trying to close down very quickly, our players do, but it's far more sophisticated than that and requires far greater reading of the game and awareness and understanding of one another to do, which is why I say all 11 of our players are always 'in play' and we're always defending while attacking and attacking while defending. Our players placement, how and where they press and positions they fluidly take off one another in doing so is expert, it isn't an easy thing to do, that's why other teams suck at it when they think they can just stick out a 433 and have their front players try and chase every player down.

    So, a player will move to press a player, they will already be in a very good position to press that player because our players are always defending when attacking, players not involved in the attack will be taking excellent positions to pick up opposition players who could be open to support or launch a counter attack to counter press them and win the ball back quickly, with each of our players not involved in the attack doing this and taking positions off each other and positions between two opposition players so if the opposition get the ball back and their lad beats the first presser, our next lad is straight there and while pressing he is blocking the line for a pass to the player he's moved away from.

    Our players not involved in the attack but closest to it will often take a counter press position I call perfection, as their position is so good it enables them to both quickly counter press and win the ball back if our attack breaks down or become actively involved in the attack, Hendo's position v Wolves to assist Bobby's winner is an excellent example of this

    I could write over 1,000 pages on all the intricacies of our system, it really is so beautifully elaborate and brilliant to watch, so I'll stop there as I'll be here all night, that's just a tiny sample
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  9. #49
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    Perhaps a good example of the players working out a solution in a game would be Mo's goal Hendo assisted v Southampton. They were pressing high and aggressively and particularly on Mo and Bobby who we often use to play off in numerous ways trying different things. As Allisson was about to take a kick Hendo pointed to him to signal for him to put the ball into the inside right midfield position, Bobby was aware of this and Bertrand, their LB was positioned to push high and aggressively to stop Bobby receiving the ball, so as Allisson went to take the kick, Bobby ran towards our goal as if moving to receive the ball from Allisson, Bertrand went with him, allowing Allisson to put the ball over both their heads to where Hendo wanted it and received it with an inside out run to then assist for Mo
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  10. #50
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    Johnny giles reckons Robertson above all others should as things stand win player of the year. I'm in Ireland and I like giles but imo that's pure shite. If anything hes not as good as last season. While still being fecking class obviously

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