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Thread: Liverpool 19/20 v Manchester United 98/99

  1. #11
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    I went

    Schmeichel - Irwin, Stam, VVD, Robbo - Scholes, Fabinho, Keane - Salah, Firmino, Mane

    I'm at a major disadvantage since I've never actually seen Schmeichel or Irwin play properly. I also only got the very tail end of Keane, so I'm going by rep more than anything else.

    Same reason I couldn't pick a striker ahead of Bobby. What he does for us few others on the planet could.
    Etiamsi omnes, ego non

  2. #12
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    I went

    Allisson

    Trent Gomez Van Dijk Robertson

    Henderson Fabinho Wijnaldum

    Salah Firmino Mane

    Our systems better, our players are better, a fairer debate would be, would their 98/99 side, playing under today's rules, make it into the top six in the Prem? Highly unlikely
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balinkay View Post
    I went

    Schmeichel - Irwin, Stam, VVD, Robbo - Scholes, Fabinho, Keane - Salah, Firmino, Mane

    I'm at a major disadvantage since I've never actually seen Schmeichel or Irwin play properly. I also only got the very tail end of Keane, so I'm going by rep more than anything else.

    Same reason I couldn't pick a striker ahead of Bobby. What he does for us few others on the planet could.
    Schmeichel for me, is by far the best goalkeeper of the premier league era, and one of the best of any era. He was a monster.
    There are only 2 teams in Liverpool. Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves. (Bill Shankly)

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balinkay View Post
    I went

    Schmeichel - Irwin, Stam, VVD, Robbo - Scholes, Fabinho, Keane - Salah, Firmino, Mane

    I'm at a major disadvantage since I've never actually seen Schmeichel or Irwin play properly. I also only got the very tail end of Keane, so I'm going by rep more than anything else.

    Same reason I couldn't pick a striker ahead of Bobby. What he does for us few others on the planet could.
    Can't argue with mancs or you picking Peter. Imo Alisson is better with his feet - both quality. Have a few years on you but accessing the games wasnt as easy back then and I'd be busier in my youth.

    You picked two left backs though, imo Trent is the most two footed of the four. Irwin a better fullback than Neville, a better deadball striker than Robbo. Robbo would eat him athletically though, the mans a freak

  5. #15
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    Did I? I always thought he was like Azpilicueta and could play both sides. You can tell I'm winging it

    I think Alisson is clearly better with his feet - it's the way the position has changed in 20 years.


    @skyebo - how would you rate Cech in comparison to Schmeichel and other top goalies you've seen?
    Etiamsi omnes, ego non

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balinkay View Post
    Did I? I always thought he was like Azpilicueta and could play both sides. You can tell I'm winging it

    I think Alisson is clearly better with his feet - it's the way the position has changed in 20 years.


    @skyebo - how would you rate Cech in comparison to Schmeichel and other top goalies you've seen?
    I would put Schmeichel in the same bracket as Banks and Clemence, I haven't seen anyone else in the premier league who I would say that about. Cech nowhere near as good as him imo.
    There are only 2 teams in Liverpool. Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves. (Bill Shankly)

  7. #17
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    And herein lies the reason for my all Liverpool selection, teams didn't press like our lads press in their hay day and I just honestly do not think a single of their players who would have been big influences on games for them back then would have had any opportunity to influence a game against our lads as they did then and I can't include a single one of their players because all our 11 players are always in play and that contributes to everything we do so well

    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    He definitely does have a system, it's not a system as people understand systems, where teams have a certain way they play and players that if you stop one or two of, you can stop them playing, it became even more fluid when Hendo was at No6 at the midfield 3 were rotating position and assuming each others position a lot throughout each game. The full backs don't always both bomb on. The system is tweaked for certain sides. One of THE most exciting thing about this team is that we can be brilliant in different ways albeit with familiar patterns (patterns which the players have often mentioned having worked at on the training pitch)

    One of the issues we had in the clear system with Fabinho and his high pressing is the midfield 3 didn't rotate and he played very centrally leaving a hole and teams looked to exploit that hole with players making outside in diagonal runs to be found in it, with the two wide players simultaneously springing to quickly give them a 3 or 4 v 2 or 3 running at our defence.

    They also exploited our right hand side very well because he isn't a true DM No6 and doesn't operate right across the width of the pitch as Hendo does and teams had learned to do both those things very well until Hendo came back in and were able to instantly do it to us again causing us real problems in games in which Hendo was subbed early this season, to the extent Jurgen had to make more subs specifically to stop it. So that is an example of our system as it was and players operating in set rigid areas that opposition sides could set up to exploit, through countering from defending or from pressing high trying to get a win back and counter from that, which unfortunately was very evident on Fabinho's return v Southampton.

    There are certain set things the players have to do, but Jurgen gives them a lot of responsibility for using things they have learned in games and worked on in training and working out how to win games in different ways using them from within the formation and system, that's why watching them is so brilliant, sometimes, if you pay attention to post match interviews, it's very apparent when we've been so much better second half that the players haven't found the solution by themselves and Jurgen has had to remind them of one or two patterns of play they had worked on and developed for such opposition and hadn't tried.

    Maybe you don't recognise it as a system because it's very fluid and there are tactical tweaks to it for nearly every game and we can play differently and win games in different ways in every game, but there absolutely is a system. A good example of a tweak and both full backs pushing very high constantly in that game and the reason for that tweak I could use is the second game against Leicester. Leicester play with one up top, Vardy, given we leave our CB's 2v2 at the back in a lot of games, v Leicester we were very comfortable leaving Virgil and Gomez 2v1 against Vardy at the back and pushing up very high on them to dominate the ball in their half, stop them playing their passing game and press and counter press to quickly win back the ball any time we lost possession.

    Our pressing isn't just a case of everyone trying to close down very quickly, our players do, but it's far more sophisticated than that and requires far greater reading of the game and awareness and understanding of one another to do, which is why I say all 11 of our players are always 'in play' and we're always defending while attacking and attacking while defending. Our players placement, how and where they press and positions they fluidly take off one another in doing so is expert, it isn't an easy thing to do, that's why other teams suck at it when they think they can just stick out a 433 and have their front players try and chase every player down.

    So, a player will move to press a player, they will already be in a very good position to press that player because our players are always defending when attacking, players not involved in the attack will be taking excellent positions to pick up opposition players who could be open to support or launch a counter attack to counter press them and win the ball back quickly, with each of our players not involved in the attack doing this and taking positions off each other and positions between two opposition players so if the opposition get the ball back and their lad beats the first presser, our next lad is straight there and while pressing he is blocking the line for a pass to the player he's moved away from.

    Our players not involved in the attack but closest to it will often take a counter press position I call perfection, as their position is so good it enables them to both quickly counter press and win the ball back if our attack breaks down or become actively involved in the attack, Hendo's position v Wolves to assist Bobby's winner is an excellent example of this

    I could write over 1,000 pages on all the intricacies of our system, it really is so beautifully elaborate and brilliant to watch, so I'll stop there as I'll be here all night, that's just a tiny sample
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    And herein lies the reason for my all Liverpool selection, teams didn't press like our lads press in their hay day and I just honestly do not think a single of their players who would have been big influences on games for them back then would have had any opportunity to influence a game against our lads as they did then and I can't include a single one of their players because all our 11 players are always in play and that contributes to everything we do so well
    It's all hyperthetical anyway. Man Utd as a club won 13 titles playing the way they wanted to play. Klopp's system works for him, it wouldn't work everywhere. And it would be hard for any team to do the treble now as the FA Cup is down the pecking order, hence the teams they put out.
    There are only 2 teams in Liverpool. Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves. (Bill Shankly)

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyebo View Post
    It's all hyperthetical anyway. Man Utd as a club won 13 titles playing the way they wanted to play. Klopp's system works for him, it wouldn't work everywhere. And it would be hard for any team to do the treble now as the FA Cup is down the pecking order, hence the teams they put out.
    The FA Cup is well down the pecking order, I'm not normally that bothered about it as I think the league will always be very tight and we'll have loads of vital league and Champions League games towards the end of the season in which we'll have to put out our best possible side in every single game (although winning each next game is something I view as vital, because I think we can ).

    However, were we to win the league early, I would really like us to have a serious crack at it this season and go for an unprecedented quintuple that no-one has ever done and it would be highly unlikely that any team except our lads could ever match as you have to start the season as European Champions to have any possibility of achieving it
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balinkay View Post
    I went

    Schmeichel - Irwin, Stam, VVD, Robbo - Scholes, Fabinho, Keane - Salah, Firmino, Mane

    I'm at a major disadvantage since I've never actually seen Schmeichel or Irwin play properly. I also only got the very tail end of Keane, so I'm going by rep more than anything else.

    Same reason I couldn't pick a striker ahead of Bobby. What he does for us few others on the planet could.
    Your effectively rating robbo as better than taa. I'd take Irwin at lb with taa rb and sat with vvd at cb. Its impossible to pick a team beyond the back 4 since the systems are to different to pick anyone without being unfair to others. I think we beat them all day though.

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