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Thread: Resuming the season

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by redebreck View Post
    Interesting article, that (aljazeera). I think I touched on this weeks ago, stating that just about every nation's economy is going to take a hammering because of the virus.
    People's attitudes are going to change because of this, and we might see a shift away from the greed capitalism towards a socialism where people all help each other.
    Let us hope, any way!
    As much as things to go on cycles and repeat themselves man is always intelligent to use these experiences and make them improve.


    Comparing 1340 or 1918 is not totally relevant to today's situation.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by LFC vs PFC View Post
    Linked to this, I saw a trailer for a movie on Netflix today called The Platform.
    In essence it's about some sort of vertical prison with a hole in the middle. A platform full of food with enough for each cell goes down through on a daily basis. Obviously the people on the top platform can have more than their allocation without recrimination, but it will mean someone else starved.

    Looks a good metaphor for our country at the moment.

    https://youtu.be/bnGAgAgorC4

    Sorry, can't embed from my phone.
    Strewth that looks near to the knuckle, thanks!

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    Rihana is another, there are more I believe but can't name them.
    I've given what I believe is the law regarding this matter, that principle andwhy it's needed.

    Your rebuttal seems to be that because the law elsewhere, state and various governments haven't done a good job fixing loopholes, we should bemoan another thing and fix that instead.
    If the laws are not fit for purpose (which I've argued they're not elsewhere) then you fix those laws.
    No - I simply believe it is immoral for a football club that has recorded record profits - and which is continuing to pay playing staff HUGE amounts of money ( players/owners should be paying non playing staff wages IMO and this should have been explored first ) - see it as acceptable to take from the TAX payer whose monies are haemorrhaging massively at this unprecedented time and should be going into the vital resources needed to save lives!

    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    Well you can remove the dirt of my soul from your worldly burden.
    I'm a reasonably ok person who tries and aims for the good, and is steadfast against making errors of consequence.
    I value truth and respect quite highly, I will speak freely at the expense of offending others (which happens) with both those goals in mind.
    It's a continual process
    I was just pulling your chain mate..

    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    My question was rather simple.
    If you pay taxes and are rich, is availing of the NHS getting caught with your hand in the tills (which we over here use for theft), greedy or inappropriate ?
    Should those rich people be taxed for the nhs but not entitled to use it, or should we just force them into sorting their own care?

    I'd argue that lfc a tax contributor compliant with the law is entitled to the legal benefits which they qualify for. To suggest they are caught with their hands in the till as I understand the phrase is inaccurate and an unfair smear. They stole nothing.

    Are lfc rich enough that the fans should demand they pay their taxes on economic activity, vat, employee taxes, employer contributions yet at the same time not avail of benefits they or their employees qualify for from the state ?
    You are free to argue the point - but you must see the difference between a wealthy tax payer using the NHS and our owners forging ahead with taking TAX payers money to subsidise 80% of non playing staff salaries on their franchise while continuing to pay the players astronomical sums at a time of global crisis? I am afraid I cannot help you if you fail to see the glaring lack of morality.

    You seem to be fixated with the law - the law is full of wrongs. The law allows all manner of evil while often restricting goodwill. It is in no way a barometer of what is right or wrong. The Law makes it possible for the richest to paye the least in relative TAX




    New York Times OCT. 6, 2019 '

    For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans last year paid a lower total tax rate — spanning federal, state and local taxes — than any other income group

    The overall tax rate on the richest 400 households last year was only 23 percent, meaning that their combined tax payments equaled less than one quarter of their total income. This overall rate was 70 percent in 1950 and 47 percent in 1980.


    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    I've read the article and I'll read it again later on, but I'd be rather interested to know how you view it.
    What is your critical assessment of the piece you read ?
    What's salient and useful ?
    Think it is simply a 'what if' article. I don't believe there is anything that salient in it beyond the irrefutable fact that if we continue along the current path of market Capitalism - there will be bigger dangers than the Coronavirus. The system does not work despite those who benefit most trying to brainwash the masses into believing it is the ONLY option.. it isn't and never was.
    Last edited by Steveo; 8th April 2020 at 11:50 AM.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    No - I simply believe it is immoral for a football club that has recorded record profits - and which is continuing to pay playing staff HUGE amounts of money ( players/owners should be paying non playing staff wages IMO and this should have been explored first ) - see it as acceptable to take from the TAX payer whose monies are haemorrhaging massively at this unprecedented time and should be going into the vital resources needed to save lives!



    I was just pulling your chain mate..



    You are free to argue the point - but you must see the difference between a wealthy tax payer using the NHS and our owners forging ahead with taking TAX payers money to subsidise 80% of non playing staff salaries on their franchise while continuing to pay the players astronomical sums at a time of global crisis? I am afraid I cannot help you if you fail to see the glaring lack of morality.

    You seem to be fixated with the law - the law is full of wrongs. The law allows all manner of evil while often restricting goodwill. It is in no way a barometer of what is right or wrong. The Law makes it possible for the richest to paye the least in relative TAX




    New York Times OCT. 6, 2019 '

    For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans last year paid a lower total tax rate — spanning federal, state and local taxes — than any other income group

    The overall tax rate on the richest 400 households last year was only 23 percent, meaning that their combined tax payments equaled less than one quarter of their total income. This overall rate was 70 percent in 1950 and 47 percent in 1980.



    Think it is simply a 'what if' article. I don't believe there is anything that salient in it beyond the irrefutable fact that if we continue along the current path of market Capitalism - there will be bigger dangers than the Coronavirus. The system does not work despite those who benefit most trying to brainwash the masses into believing it is the ONLY option.. it isn't and never was.
    Para1
    Liverpool and spurs have both posted a record pl pre tax profit in recent seasons iirc. Lfc posting over £200mill in pre-tax profits in the last 3 seasons. Neither the biggest earner.
    As such they've paid record taxes on profits.
    Other clubs who have run a loss and have avoided paying any of that particular tax on those occasions.

    I think I read on here the cost to the state of lfc availing of a scheme they qualify for would have given around £1million to the club.
    In terms of a net effect lfc have paid their taxes and have taken a small amount relative to their tax contributions.

    Lfcs wage bill ranges between 50-60%, say £200mill a year.
    The club is also not generating its income and is losing money too.

    I fail to see how lfc getting 1 million pound would have any real impact on the nhs. Money is printed and it's not like lfcs regularly paid staff are going to be buying their own ventilators.
    Can you explain how lfc are impacting on the ability to produce ppe, ventilators etc or which staff are not being able to be hired by the NHS at present because of lfc ?

    2 I guessed as much, I just like removing burdens from your conscience... even without a reparation payment , which iirc your reply was that the state had already taken all your money in taxes

    3) first up if you follow politics, oppositions and Gov departments, media we are always living in crisis. It's an age of hysteria.

    Lfc operate in an environment. They have normally paid people and some of the best paid footballers. They are a business who pay tax and at this time of crisis they too are in a predicament.
    No football training, no matches, no broadcasting with a hopeful return to football on the horizon which could be deferred, re-postponed or scrapped.
    They have an unknown future ahead of them but certainly the summer preseason and world fan visiting is off the books.

    After this crisis passes things will return to a normality of sorts. Then people will pay their taxes again.

    4) agree, there are differences between legal and moral. As a business they haven't broken the law. Hands in the till is breaking the law.
    So maybe they are not as altruistic as those who bemoan their actions, rather than being immoral in any sense, as they would merely have gotten some back from the kitty they've paid into at a greater rate.

    Those 400 houses against the services they withdraw are a massive tax contributor. The top% pay a huge amount of the tax take in actual terms, that is fair enough.

    "The highest earning 1% in the UK pay an estimated 28% of all income tax – not the total “tax burden” as the Prime Minister states. This is close to a record level, but it isn’t quite the highest percentage ever – the top 1% paid an estimated 29% in 2015/16.

    There aren’t any readily available figures for what proportion of all taxes the top 1% pays."
    https://fullfact.org/economy/do-top-1-earners-pay-28-tax-burden/

    For all the bemoaning of the rich, they can offer the reply of why don't you generate more wealth and pay more taxes too.
    Maybe you and I are too moral and altruistic to generate massive income and wealth with which to pay the taxes that pay for the services.

    Tax theory - higher taxes = bigger tax take.
    Tax Reality doesn't work that way though.

    When corporate tax rates were at 90% in the usa I think they invested their money rather than generating profits. If you want companies to expand their portfolio and buy assets raise corporate tax and see profits posted diminish to avoid paying 70 or the 90% proposed by some progressives.
    They'll accumulate wealth via assets over a dividend payment.

    When income taxes go up, some people might not work overtime.
    When taxes go up the difference between working and not working diminish.

    For others, like myself, due to the 39 hour week, they are restricted from earning more, having more disposable income and paying more taxes.

    In addressing financial inequality in the uk, imo labour lost the plot and went too far. Small measures have big effects, it's a sensitive factor seemingly.
    Proposing the government take a 10% share of companies with over 250 workers was a silly idea imo.

    This is a huge area of discussion and I'm not that far away from you really I think, just putting up points to be considered.

    5) what system have you to offer instead ??

    I found the piece to be accurate but rather fanciful and self serving.
    I expect China will suffer some backlash but not terribly. Manufacturing will leave china but they have a strong internal market of their own.

    They assisted by the who, were spreading misinformation upto a point where error is unlikely.
    It would seem that they withheld information and I can only suggest the ccp did so through some rather horrible cold war type logic.
    If they nuke us, in the cold war, they and the world are entering a global nuclear fallout.
    It would seem to me that some of China's misinformation was so that they alone would not suffer the consequences of the disease.

    Their action imo is rather like a person knowingly spreading a virus to others. It comes from a place of sickness.

    Theres a lot in the piece tbf, so I'll just leave it at that

  5. #125
    Some clubs back in training

    Officially

  6. #126
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    @CC

    In view of keeping this thread relatively free of endless tangential waffle - and to condense it down - I think one potential cure for the condition is most likely found in opting out altogether and becoming a monk.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by dicko1969 View Post
    Some clubs back in training

    Officially
    Which clubs? Any Premier League?

  8. #128
    Bayern Munich were among a number of Bundesliga clubs to return to training for the first time since the campaign was halted by the coronavirus pandemic.

    The champions trained in groups of five but without any contact, as did Borussia Monchengladbach and Wolfsburg.

    Bottom side Paderborn worked in small groups and coach Steffen Baumgart said it was important for players to "get the ball on their feet again".

  9. #129
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    They seem miles ahead of us in Germany. Proper testing and seem to have far fewer cases than us, Italy, Spain , France or the Low Countries.

  10. #130
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    Germany, South Korea and Singapore surely the model to take going forward if anything like this happens again. Just read an article on BBC where it talks about when the restrictions might be lifted. It suggests that it could be the end of May. 7 more weeks.

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