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Thread: Black Lives Matter

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post

    The Media sets the agenda and it is largely funded by billionaire owners who ALL stand to lose the same way IF true equality were ever implemented..
    ..and the rich, through the media, attempt to brainwash us into thinking the way they do..

    Quote Originally Posted by Taksin View Post

    The second statement - all lives matter - is actually the foundational principle of our civilisation, paraphrased. It is the belief that leads this country and others like it to work against racism. It is the foundational belief that allows us to object to racism. It is the basis of the antislavery movement and of Lincoln's civil war, which lead to the death of 500,000 white soldiers fighting to end slavery.
    ..racism, and genocide, are widespread throughout the planet..

    ..all lives SHOULD matter, but in some areas of the world, they don't..
    ..I doubt that will ever be addressed..
    There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief

  2. #282
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    There are estimated to be 28 million slaves in the world right now. 14 million in India, 2-3 million in Pakistan, 3 million in China, one in every 140 sub saharan Africans is estimated to be a slave, many of whom are children.

    Clearly race is not fundamental to slavery. What's more, the eradication of slavery has been a crowning achievement of modernity. We can argue about how and why it came about, but it's clear that the white man is no longer the worst offender and it's not 'whiteness' that uniquely leads to oppression. Indeed, most if not all white tribes have endured slavery of one form or another themselves throughout the ages. But the European ban on slavery was actually a massive step forward.

    So what is the claim that is being made? Is the white population's treatment of the black population the most pressing injustice in the world? If not, why is there not a focus not on these and other examples of terrible oppression today? Has anyone heard these facts mentioned in the media lately?

    Sadig Khan, for example, is quite keen to point out the terrible past of British history and show his keenness to root out the errant statues and place names for fear of 'offending' people. But on his official visit to Pakistan, where he proudly identified his origins as being, he had nothing to say about the slavery that is so widespread there. Why? Is it that he is a uniquely compassionate man that cares terribly about injustice to humankind, or could it be that he is inconsistent and is using the accusation of 'racism' to achieve certain ends?

    People keep going on about how we need education but I tend not to hear anything balanced in what they wish to educate us about.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by redebreck View Post
    ..and the rich, through the media, attempt to brainwash us into thinking the way they do..



    ..racism, and genocide, are widespread throughout the planet..

    ..all lives SHOULD matter, but in some areas of the world, they don't..
    ..I doubt that will ever be addressed..
    Exactly, I don't believe it's the founding principle of our civilisation which constantly demonstrates the opposite.

    The voting public are putting in more right wing governments across the globe. The media and politicians are pushing an agenda of "segregation".

    The whole BLM is a vehicle for Xyz etc - is just the way of de-railing it.
    "...and my inch is like a freight train, so I only use it in self defence"

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFC vs PFC View Post
    Not outrageous, but not really needed. Everyone knows that child sexual abuse is bad, but at the time when it came out if suddenly everyone starts talking about Asian grooming gangs, operation yewtree, higher than average sexual abuse in the working/upper class then the original point gets lost and swept under the rug a bit more.

    You seem quite defensive about the catholic church, I chose it arbitrarily (the fact that I've worked for them for the past 20 years would indicate that I don't have a particular vendetta against them - am I allowed to say that or does that mean I've got non catholic guilt).
    Quote Originally Posted by LFC vs PFC View Post
    Not outrageous, but not really needed. Everyone knows that child sexual abuse is bad, but at the time when it came out if suddenly everyone starts talking about Asian grooming gangs, operation yewtree, higher than average sexual abuse in the working/upper class then the original point gets lost and swept under the rug a bit more. You seem quite defensive about the catholic church, I chose it arbitrarily (the fact that I've worked for them for the past 20 years would indicate that I don't have a particular vendetta against them - am I allowed to say that or does that mean I've got non catholic guilt).
    1 in 50 people have a predisposition for pedophillia, i would suggest that while discussing a single cohort of offenders might require specific actions within that insititution/cohort it would be unwise to ignore other cases of child sexual abuse and those victims.
    To suggest other victims being discussed is not really needed, or to be excluded, is not wise imo. (Im not impuning you, or your character here, for saying what youve said, i can understand what you mean, but i am for opening up the discussion in this area and i think your outlook is wrong in terms of solutions - ie technically, not youre a shit human).

    My issue with your example is that adults lives matter as a comparison would be a rather poor analogy where adult lives matter could be dealing with issues that are not as grave as child sexual abuse, even frivilous in comparison.

    Im not sure why you are asking me if youre allowed to say anything about anyone or thing, say what you like when you like, you dont need my permission (for clarity) nor I yours. Ive said earlier in the thread the risk of offending others is a price of free speech and a neccesary one worth paying. If you want to take offense feel free to be offended too
    Im only replying to your question as youve asked me about it. Sorry if you were being dramatic or something else, that flew over my head.
    Free speech affords free reply.

    My stating your selection of the rcc was lucky was in so much that you would not run the risk of being charged for a hate crime imo. It would be hard not to notice the consistent use of islamophobic or anti-semitic in the uk or even anti-blackness. So your arbitrary selection was incidentally a safe one.
    Similarly had the burnley banner man arbitrarily ran a black lives matter burnley banner i would suggest he/the incident would not be under investigation for a potential hate crime by the police. An all lives matter perhaps would be equally offensive somehow as a wlm banner
    Nor are the pl under investigation for possible offense caused by the blm branding. Or under investigation for ommiting the non-nhs essential workers. Nor has anyone said aldo? was missing the point by highlighting non-nhs essential staff. Which many of us agreed with him on. It seems we can have the same sort of discussion around the area of work without incurring the same resistance as around race.

    I'm not sure what your phrase non-catholic guilt really means, can you explain this phrase please? Or what youre trying to get across ? There are a few angles i can guess at, so i dont really get you.

    If people reject the rcchurch or multiculturalism as a result of cover ups of child sexual abuse well that is a consequence of the failure of those involved and the perpetrators. Leaving kids to be abused for the vanity of institutions/beliefs/desires is the problem.

    I have really no issue with anyone saying anything they like, i can reply if i like. With respect to the rcc ive not got any real issue with people critiquing it as they please or even myself.
    When i saw a man wearing a provocative priest garb with a baby doll attached to his groin implying oral rape as a halloween costume. Its not something id wear personally on a night out as a costume but i can appreciate a merit of sorts say memage as bali might call it or originality that goes with its design. I think art, cartoon caricatures are part of free expression. Im not so sure the culture is as principled on these matters as in the very recent past.
    If you dont like them you can critique them but im not on board with people destoying art, burning books or cancelling speakers/shows. I dont approve of what is called cancel culture.

    For me a more appropriate comparison with blm and the claim around systemic racism/opression would be the similar claims around the gender pay gap as proof of systemic sexism. Were this movement branded as womens lives matter and mens lives matter was offered in response or for consideration, i would see that as a better comparison than yours.

    Tbc i would think the police launching an investigation into a banner reading blacklives/whitelives/menslives/womenlives etc matter is an absurdity. Even if some people find those offensive or missing the point and not conforming with their sole focus of grievance.

    For me there are issues i have with many of these marxist social justice warrior groups and the claims they make. For me they are often simplistic and proof claimed around one issue doesnt seem to hold in other contexts.
    Reality is too complex for their simple theories.

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