Poor midfield recruitment model

[vin]

As such the right strategy is to look for ways to close the gap.

One way is beating city.
Another is looking at their 6 points v chelsea in the league and our 2 points.

Beat Chelsea once and lose v Chelsea once, and we are now top of the league on goal difference.

The league would be in our hands.

An oversimplification.

Why not just say - beat Brentford, and the league is in our hands.

[CCTV]

An oversimplification.

Why not just say - beat Brentford, and the league is in our hands.

With an improving squad we should be doing better v the top sides.

As the squad has improved our results v city have faltered.

Suggesting Pep with less of a player quality gap, is getting better results versus Klopp.

In our last 9 v City we've won 1, 4 draws and 4 loses.
Our record prior to that was more successful.

Of course beating Brentford would put us ahead of city. But we tend to overcome lesser sides at a good rate.

In the bigger games v top sides, we aren't reaping enough rewards for the assets at our disposal.

[vin]

With an improving squad we should be doing better v the top sides.

As the squad has improved our results v city have faltered.

Suggesting Pep with less of a player quality gap, is getting better results versus Klopp.

In our last 9 v City we've won 1, 4 draws and 4 loses.
Our record prior to that was more successful.

Of course beating Brentford would put us ahead of city. But we tend to overcome lesser sides at a good rate.

In the bigger games v top sides, we aren't reaping enough rewards for the assets at our disposal.

But what is the rate of improvement for City?

Also, we aren't reaping enough rewards?

It's exactly that type of comment that I'm referring too.

2nd in league
Semi FA cup
Qtr in CL with a good chance of making the semi (and possibly the final)

It's not perfect world. We've clawed back from being double digits behind the strongest and richest* team in the league.

What is it that you want?

[CCTV]

But what is the rate of improvement for City?

Also, we aren't reaping enough rewards?

It's exactly that type of comment that I'm referring too.

2nd in league
Semi FA cup
Qtr in CL with a good chance of making the semi (and possibly the final)

It's not perfect world. We've clawed back from being double digits behind the strongest and richest* team in the league.

What is it that you want?

Prior to the 18/19 season Klopps record at lfc v pep was:
4 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss.
We've gone from a 66% win rate - better than expected.
To an 11% win rate - far worse than expected.

So far as great as the Klopp era has been, we've not converted that greatness into enough titles.

We've bought Diaz for far less than Grealish. What difference does the spending have come matchday ?
Does it make Diaz a less impressive footballer because he didn't cost a 100 million ?
Does it make Bobby, Mo and Salah all worse than Grealish.

Like we've only spent 7or8mill signing our first team fullbacks.
That's great business, not a reason to expect us to lose.

What do I want ? Lfc to be top dog.
To get back on top when playing other top sides.

[Nineteenx]

I think the current difference between us and City, our having the better forwards and more of them meaning we should be less likely to drop points in games when we're not at our best is evolution

It really is that simple

In 18-20 we were the best side at being devastatingly direct and at pressing and counter pressing in world football, we won a Champions League and Premier League through that

City have tried to emulate and have copied a great deal of those qualities we had that made us better than them in 18-20, they weren't better than us in 18-19, if ever a League title win were to have an asterix by it, their 18-19 season is the one, they were handed that by Anthony Taylor and other officials

City have been better than us in the press and counter press this season and have been better than us in releasing players going direct when it is on to, not always reaping the benefits we would from that through their forwards not being as good as ours and them not having 2 top quality attacking full backs - They have also developed all their players ability in playing switches and the medium to long up and down balls and through balls to release players in behind, to levels comparable with our best at it, exactly what I suggested the first point in our evolution should have been

City have done that without losing their ability to play a shorter possession passing game to a very high level, or restricting themselves to predominantly attacking down one flank and having no width on the other side, meaning it is considerable evolution and that they have added crucial strings to their bow of how they are able to win games, without losing any of what made them so formidable without the new aspects

We have thrown the baby out with the bath water in our alleged evolution, and hugely diminished our level of ability in our ability to be devastatingly direct and our pressing and counter pressing and always having width and incredible equal potency on both sides of our attack and the ability to utilise that as much as possible with very high quality switches

We have got better, although not much better in our possession passing game and attempts to play that, but we've lost more than we have gained and that isn't evolution, it's devolution, were just have better forwards than City who score more when we don't play well than theirs do and far greater strength in depth at keeper, in our defence and attack than we have had in any other season since Jurgen arrived

[Taksin]

I sympathise with Vin in his argument with CCTV. By focusing on the results against City, you are focusing on a part of the story and, in a complex story, there are always other things to consider. How we do against City does not explain how they have dropped points elsewhere or how we have dropped points elsewhere.

Here are some influential factors from this season that are hard to account for

injuries
timing of games, including 12.30 kick offs
how much they are up for it against us or anyone else
covid disrupted games and fixture schedules
VAR decisions
the explanation for why, against Leicester, Mané missed an open goal and Salah missed a pen within 15 mins of each other (that wasn't the midfield recruitment model)
etc etc

I would say they found a way to use our weak spot - a high defensive line - against us the other day. That looks like Pep getting the better of Klopp to me

Still, face them in the CL final and I would fancy us to win, mainly because our success is not principally built upon tactics, contrary to the visionary experiences of 19x

Its important to remember how unfeasibly dominant they have been and the reasons why

[Nineteenx]

I would say they found a way to use our weak spot - a high defensive line - against us the other day. That looks like Pep getting the better of Klopp to me

It was Jurgen indulging Guardiola in his 'Look what a great manager I am' cock off

Jurgen tried to insist on using the more passing orientated game he's tried to develop, that isn't anywhere near the level of City's in 19-20 or their current one

Guardiola opted to play against Jurgen's passing game using the direct approach that made Jurgen so successful he adopted and further developed (developing more players to have the quality to play the necessary quality of balls) as another string to City's bow

The game ended in a draw, but Guardiola very clearly came out on top, unfortunately, our forwards are better than theirs, they might just bring in Haaland in the summer, then with their better passing game and direct game and pressing and counter pressing game, we might well struggle to get as close

Bottom line, ditching so much of what made us the best team in the league and Europe through 18-20 in trying to play more like City, rather than further developing and enhancing what made us the best, while adding more subtleties to our game wasn't very clever

There were just so many other avenues for improving what made us the best, so many, before there was any justification for weakening or ditching any of it

[scientificred]

Can't remember the exact numbers but apparently our high line has effectively operated the offside flag about 160 times this season. Brentford are apparently second in this regard with about 60.

[LEGS]

Id say taking equal points is not a bad outcome if honest 4 points off City would be great stuff.

We can point at games we didnt win but out of 4 games against Soton/Palace they took only 3/12.

NOBODY ever takes maximum points in any league their is always surprise results that is what makes the game.

I wouldnt be confident we'd beat them in CL final if both clubs make but by the same token im not fearful either just enjoy the ride it was only yesterday we had Roy as manager.

[Nineteenx]

We can point at games we didnt win but out of 4 games against Soton/Palace they took only 3/12.

The set ups of Soton/Palace/Spurs to take points off City were incredibly similar, practically the same as, how i've talked about being the best way to beat them or take points off them for 2 seasons

We have better players to implement those same tactics, we have players better at playing those tactics, with a history of winning the games very biggest trophies playing those tactics, and a history of getting the better of City players who featured on Sunday playing them, Jurgen decided not to do that and to try and outfootball City and Guardiola for some reason, I have no idea why, very un Jurgen like