12 games to go - Man City and Liverpool

[CCTV]

Everytime we play or switch to a definite 2 in a 4231 the opposition start to easily release players in the spaces either side of our 2, we nullify our own full backs and the opposition quickly start creating chances

the lopsided 433 when 2 sit and one is sometimes part of a clear 3 as a No8 and sometimes more of a 10 works far FAR better, our players are used to it, the lopsided nature of it actually helps our movement and creativity and our pressing and counter pressing

4231 remains a shit idea, there's a reason none of the top clubs play that system, it's flawed, it was popular and prevalent in the noughties, the game has moved on considerably since, leave it in the noughties, 433 and 343 are infinitely better systems, which is why the top club all employ them

Bayern play 433 and 4231 very successfully and that's it, but they have Lewandowski, when Chelsea played it successfully they had Drogba, when whiskey face flirted with it he had Van Nistlerooy and later Ronaldo, 433 and 343 are far better systems for the modern pressing and counter pressing game, to even revert to 4231 for some games there is one crucial element you need that we don't have, a top TOP class No9 in the Lewandowski, Drogba mould

What !!!!!!!!!

Players make systems. Klopp knows both and has a better squad and first team in 4231 as I see it.

You're for playing 433 when you are a .. little critical of Fab & Thiago. Hendos likely partners in 433.

Benching say, Bobby & Diaz to start the Brazilian Allen and the Spanish Shelvey in your best 11 !!!!

Salah 28 goals & 10 assists
Jota 20 goals & 3 assists
Mane 14 goals & 2 assists
Diaz 18 goals & 6 assists (Inc porto)
Bobby 9 goals & 4 assists - not so many minutes

How could the press and counterpress led by hendo playing at 6 with 1 clown and a fab 4 be worse than a team with 2 clowns!! and only a front 3 to help out !@#$%?!

2-1 with Bobby or Diaz off the bench in a more defined 10 role
Hendo orchestrating it all from deeper.. just one of Fab or Thiago trying their best

[Steveo]

In the 29 league games since Liverpool binned the disastrous situation with Midfielders playing at CB - the Phillps/Williams pairing and went Phillips and Kabak last season and this season with Virgil/Matip/Konate

We have won 25 - drawn 3 (this includes his 16 minutes v Chelsea) and lost 1 game that Thiago has featured in.


Pretty outstanding when you consider that over 1/3 of those games were played without Virgil,Matip,Gomez or any senior CB at all.

Of the 12 league games he has missed this season alone, we have drawn 5 and lost 1. That’s a 50% win rate without Thiago.

[CCTV]

In the 29 league games since Liverpool binned the disastrous situation with Midfielders playing at CB - the Phillps/Williams pairing and went Phillips and Kabak last season and this season with Virgil/Matip/Konate

We have won 25 - drawn 3 (this includes his 16 minutes v Chelsea) and lost 1 game that Thiago has featured in.


Pretty outstanding when you consider that over 1/3 of those games were played without Virgil,Matip,Gomez or any senior CB at all.

Of the 12 league games he has missed this season alone, we have drawn 5 and lost 1. That’s a 50% win rate without Thiago.

With a full squad, and the addition of Diaz we have real competition for starts within the more elite bracket of the squad. The cover on the bench lately has been thick enough.

[eggy81]

Lol, those comments are hilarious, he wasn't involved in a single meaningful attack, he slowed the game down too much as ever, he DID NOT make a single forward pass that was contributory to a continuing attack that almost bore fruit

It seems there are lots of wankers who also like to get the tissues out for how sexy (to them) some of what he does looks who get distracted from even the couple of world class passes he made not actually contributing to affecting the game or to the potential for our lads to score a goal

That's his main issue, the pass he made that was most likely to create something was the backwards pass Robbo had to quickly react to get to their player to stop Watford equalising, that was the fucking nearest he came the entire game to actually creating anything

Wank away if you must, I'm interested in passing that compliments the rest of our players and actually delivers goals and assists or releases players to assist, something Thiago does absolutely NONE of

Apart from the first goal

[Nineteenx]

Apart from the first goal

Hendo released Gomez to assist, doing what Hendo does, just taking really astute positions where he can received the ball in space to look to release the full back or the forwards, Thiago's contribution was to play a square ball of no particular merit to Hendo

Honestly, people need to grow up and stop embarrassing themselves with the 'no look' wankfest, 1 it isn't ever a no look pass, 2 it isn't some remarkable or difficult skill, unless you personally have an incredible dearth of imagination in how to play the game and desperately limited appreciation of the use of disguise and body shape or the more limited 'no look' of looking in one direction then passing the ball in another

'No look' look a second or 2 earlier where a player is, take a touch then when looking another way play the pass to the player who you will still be seeing in your peripheral vision as well as any opposition player close to him - It really isn't fucking difficult, and it isn't fucking 'no look' it's just a more limited and less developed part of what I am always banging on about 'using disguise', body shape, developing techniques of striking the ball that will give opposition players the appearance you're going to do one thing, but because of how you've developed your technique you can make a slight last gasp alteration at the end of your technique to do something very different that can leave 2, 3 or 4 opposition players flat footed

Things like taking the ball to your right as if setting yourself to shoot, drawing 2 to 3 defenders across attempting to block, planting your left foot ahead of the ball so any defender has to come around your left leg to try and block or challenge because it's blocking any tackle and right at the very last split second, as they're all sliding across, altering your technique to instead clip the ball 5-10 yards with your heel to a team mate in acres of time and space to score with 3 defenders you've deliberately taken out of the game floundering on the floor - Again not a hard skill if you practice it and play with intelligence, imagination and awareness

I find a lot of pros limited in their imagination, in their abilities of disguise, the shape to shoot to draw 2 or 3 players across and to appear to be shooting only to clip the ball behind your standing foot to a team mate with your heel at the very last isn't a difficult skill, the one two or one two three of very quick close touches and use of body shape to square players up to meg them on the two or the three and breeze past them isn't at all difficult either if your practice all the elements required for it.

Messi, Benzema (Lyon) David Villa were all a joy to watch to learn and develop techniques for such things and develop your own from, so much guile and deliberate disguise, setting players up with their first or second touch in conjunction with their positioning off them and body shape, making them have to try and come around their standing leg or step across to leave them flat footed for dead - Messi's finishing, his numerous techniques of appearing to be applying one finish only to slightly alter his technique right at the last split second for another finish

The way they all so frequently and less obviously did 'no look' finishing, which is all about setting the ball in a position with your touch out of feet to be able to finish it in numerous parts of the goal, knowing exactly where you are going to put it, but your head only ever snapping to look there at that last split second when you strike the ball

There isn't enough disguise and guile in the game, Thiago's 'no look' passes are the lowest developed of all such skills, but unlike the rest of you and they're obvious to me, I see them coming before he plays them, same with Bobby, I see the little look, then appear to look elsewhere, one touch then pass to where I am expecting him to

[Nineteenx]

Klopp was not alone in his praise.

Thiago Alcantara 8

Wowed the crowd with one no-look pass for Jones

THIS kind of absolute tripe, time for some of you to fess up now and tell me at least half of you knew that was coming and where that ball was going at least a couple of seconds before he played it like i did, honestly, if you don't see him coming every time and know what's coming, you're missing out, he never surprises me, but then again, I've spent an incredible amount of time watching and studying players who are masters of disguise, far superior at it in every way to Thiago so his basic skills at it aren't difficult to see coming

[Nineteenx]

The trick to studying it is you have to watch youtubes, you have to replay the clip you're studying over and over and really study every slight movement, the technique, body shape and position and the subtle and slight changes in all of them to learn to understand how what Villa, Benzema (Lyon), Messi and Suarez (Liverpool, HOW did I leave Luis out just before ) set players up and how all those elements make the players believe they are about to do something entirely different and fool them, it all matters, it's all part of the incredible and seemingly dying art form of disguise those players exhibited so frequently

[jozza800]

Steveo, he has 2 (TWO) assists and 2 (TWO) goals in 42 appearances - Of which he has W28 D6 L8 (eight)

He rarely ever releases any of the forwards or either full back in isolation and time and space to even try and assist let alone that being the pass before the assist and he hasn't produced a single one of his passes through crowded areas that take 4 or 5 opposition players out of the game he is famed for since he arrived

You continue to talk about Thiago at Bayern, you're certainly not talking about Thiago at Liverpool

We're going down this route again...

There's a reason why none of our midfielders put up high numbers in terms of goals and assists (and it's not because they're all shit before someone shouts it out ). Their function is to be pure energy in the middle and to allow the fullbacks to be the main source of creativity. We've been playing this way for nearly 5 years!

I remember having this 'argument' about this exact same thing a few years ago. It hasnt changed. I mean look at Gomez at the weekend, he's a centre half playing as wingback and still got a great assist! These aren't happy accidents!

I certainly didnt expect Thiago to come in and be putting up Kevin DeBruyne type numbers. And anyone who did hasn't been watching us very closely over the last 5 years.

[eggy81]

Hendo released Gomez to assist, doing what Hendo does, just taking really astute positions where he can received the ball in space to look to release the full back or the forwards, Thiago's contribution was to play a square ball of no particular merit to Hendo

Honestly, people need to grow up and stop embarrassing themselves with the 'no look' wankfest, 1 it isn't ever a no look pass, 2 it isn't some remarkable or difficult skill, unless you personally have an incredible dearth of imagination in how to play the game and desperately limited appreciation of the use of disguise and body shape or the more limited 'no look' of looking in one direction then passing the ball in another

'No look' look a second or 2 earlier where a player is, take a touch then when looking another way play the pass to the player who you will still be seeing in your peripheral vision as well as any opposition player close to him - It really isn't fucking difficult, and it isn't fucking 'no look' it's just a more limited and less developed part of what I am always banging on about 'using disguise', body shape, developing techniques of striking the ball that will give opposition players the appearance you're going to do one thing, but because of how you've developed your technique you can make a slight last gasp alteration at the end of your technique to do something very different that can leave 2, 3 or 4 opposition players flat footed

Things like taking the ball to your right as if setting yourself to shoot, drawing 2 to 3 defenders across attempting to block, planting your left foot ahead of the ball so any defender has to come around your left leg to try and block or challenge because it's blocking any tackle and right at the very last split second, as they're all sliding across, altering your technique to instead clip the ball 5-10 yards with your heel to a team mate in acres of time and space to score with 3 defenders you've deliberately taken out of the game floundering on the floor - Again not a hard skill if you practice it and play with intelligence, imagination and awareness

I find a lot of pros limited in their imagination, in their abilities of disguise, the shape to shoot to draw 2 or 3 players across and to appear to be shooting only to clip the ball behind your standing foot to a team mate with your heel at the very last isn't a difficult skill, the one two or one two three of very quick close touches and use of body shape to square players up to meg them on the two or the three and breeze past them isn't at all difficult either if your practice all the elements required for it.

Messi, Benzema (Lyon) David Villa were all a joy to watch to learn and develop techniques for such things and develop your own from, so much guile and deliberate disguise, setting players up with their first or second touch in conjunction with their positioning off them and body shape, making them have to try and come around their standing leg or step across to leave them flat footed for dead - Messi's finishing, his numerous techniques of appearing to be applying one finish only to slightly alter his technique right at the last split second for another finish

The way they all so frequently and less obviously did 'no look' finishing, which is all about setting the ball in a position with your touch out of feet to be able to finish it in numerous parts of the goal, knowing exactly where you are going to put it, but your head only ever snapping to look there at that last split second when you strike the ball

There isn't enough disguise and guile in the game, Thiago's 'no look' passes are the lowest developed of all such skills, but unlike the rest of you and they're obvious to me, I see them coming before he plays them, same with Bobby, I see the little look, then appear to look elsewhere, one touch then pass to where I am expecting him to

Christ

[Steveo]

There's a reason why none of our midfielders put up high numbers in terms of goals and assists (and it's not because they're all shit before someone shouts it out ). Their function is to be pure energy in the middle and to allow the fullbacks to be the main source of creativity. We've been playing this way for nearly 5 years!

I remember having this 'argument' about this exact same thing a few years ago. It hasnt changed. I mean look at Gomez at the weekend, he's a centre half playing as wingback and still got a great assist! These aren't happy accidents!

I certainly didnt expect Thiago to come in and be putting up Kevin DeBruyne type numbers. And anyone who did hasn't been watching us very closely over the last 5 years.

Indeed Jozza, good point, it’s Klopp’s system.

Not really the ideal one for Thiago you would think, yet this season:

With Thiago
18 games
16 wins
1 draw (16 mins)
1 defeat (21 mins)

49 points out of a possible 54

Without Thiago
12 games
6 wins
5 draws
1 loss

23 points out of 36

Get rid

At some point 19 must surely credit the lad with something. Surely?