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Koala tea
Not sure you could really suggest Virgil the way he's re-shaping the word/disussionOriginally Posted by Steveo
Alisson/Kelleher
Robbo/Tsimi
Virgil/Matip/Konate/Gomez/Fab
His case is that Tsimi is adequate and like for like, or something along those lines to replace Robbo.
But Gomez/Milner aren't adequate etc
Under his lens, the answer I guess must be
Salah - no one does it a rwf the same
Trent - AS ABOVE
Then Fab/Hendo as they bring a robustness yo midfield, an important dynamic
Koala tea
Alisson, Matip, VVD, Robbo, Thiago, Keita, Diaz, Jota, Mane, Bobby couldn't be the most influential player under this view of most influential player.
I wouldn't have Trent or Salah in our most influential bracket for 2022.
Longer term they're obviously influential.
First Team
Van Djik is my second choice because the coherence of the defence and the coherence of the whole team are directly related. And the moral spirit of the team is perhaps even more important (if they can be separated). As 19x says, Henderson does seem to have a similar effect on the whole team.
What it boils down to for me is that if we have a midfield without Hendo or a defence without Van Djik, I am still expecting the team to be able to function to a very high level without them. When TAA is out, I am expecting us to lose a larger portion of our incisiveness. That right foot is magic.
Although we are building a team that functions all over the pitch, at all times, in a coordinated manner, what is coming from that corner of the field is the icing on the cake. Without the icing, the whole cake looks a bit dry. Those long balls have become fundamental to our style and the range of passing from TAA is very consistent- hence the high assists rate.
I accept that Van Djik would probably win in a poll but it says something that I am now looking at the 23 yr old as potentially more important.
First Team
However Taskin, when you look at examples of that in practice across a few games, it doesn't pan out like that
We lost 7-2 to Villa and 3-0 to Watford with Henderson being the only noticeable absentee
This season we were struggling desperately in our first leg against Inter in the second half, Henderson was brought on to replace Fabinho, who had been our best player in terms of keeping Inter at bay, but the difference in distributions, know how, leadership, the position of the pressing, pressing in a collective 3 in midfield higher rather than a less effective 2 in midfield with Fab sitting deeper, made an instant difference
We saw the same affect in the second half v Benfica when our midfield has lost control and the plot just the other evening
It isn't popular and won't be accepted here by a great many, but we are simply a very different proposition with Henderson in the team, even when he doesn't have a good game with the ball, his leadership, know how, pressing and counter pressing and positioning count for a lot.
We are very reliant on Trent, Virgil and Matip/Konate to be creative from deeper when Hendo doesn't play and when he isn't at No6, it's nothing personal with Fab, and it isn't a Fab/Hendo thing as most seem to think, for me we simply need another player at No6 with much better distribution as Hendo has, we're a different team who play a different way when he's at No6 and there isn't the same over reliance on Trent, Virgil, Robbo or Matip to create in those games.
I also think you do our other defenders a huge disservice, along with having to play a lower line, not really being Liverpool last season, our passing from Virgil and Matip from deep was hugely missed, as was their threat from set pieces, through which it isn't always they who score, but their presence and runs that move and occupy defenders for the analysis teams set piece plans to bear fruit
In the absence of Hendo and our senior CBs last season, with Mane struggling to readjust to his reduced pace and power post covid and having had to adjust how we play for last season we were incredibly reliant on Trent's right foot and would not have made the Champions League without it, or the pairing of Fabinho and Thiago, albeit that was playing a different way to how we try and play with a fully fit team.
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
Rowdy Yates
That logic on Hendo covers just 2 games. What about losing at Leicester who had played 48 hours before and were ravaged with injury? It was Thiago missing for that one. That’s 50% of your pooling.
We dropped 13 points in 12 games during Thiago’s absence this season too.
5 draws and a defeat in 12 games.
If Thiago was struggling for 80% pass completion at Anfield v Watford I think we all know he would be getting pelters.
The fact is we have so many extremely capable players now. Much of it is down to the manager, just watch their collective form for their nations.. it isn’t in the same bracket.
First Team
We've not suffered a single defeat with Henderson at No6 this season, we had the one draw v Brighton, in which Jones and Oxlade were his company in midfield and did such an extreme headless chicken routine in their positioning and pressing and counter pressing second half The Echo even did a special piece highlighting it.
P11 W10 D1 L0 F32 A8 all comps, quadruple wining form
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
Rowdy Yates
For the term cherry picking - see above
First Team
Check who was playing No6 Stevie, it makes a huge difference and it does actually support Taskin's point on Trent's importance as we are incredibly reliant on Trent's right foot and distribution and Virgil's and Matip's in those games.
Thiago's absence is not the reason for any dropped points, he's been rank average all season, he's not created or made the play, you wank over his passing, but his best attributes and contributions have been without the ball, he's contrbiuted precious little bordering on nothing with it - The midfield issue in his absence, as you know perfectly well as you've banged on about it almost as much as I have has been letting Gini go and not replacing him and relying on unproven not Premier League challenging side quality mids like Jones, Oxlade and Elliott, Jones and Ox have been especially costly
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
First Team
I did and responded to your post accordingly
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
Rowdy Yates
Thiago has not been rank average this season at all, that is simply not true.
Henderson on the other hand has often been middling or down right poor. His best performances ironically coming on as a sub when the team was already winning! He is that voice on the pitch but the ease with which he can be pressed into error is a worry.
If ever there was a player to benefit from Klopp's system and the quality of those around him, it is Henderson.
Oh and on Thiago - I certainly don't "wank over his passing" - please find any consistent commentary where I have. As is often the case you are assuming things based on what others have said.
His passing is excellent (short passing especially) but it's his ability to thwart and wrong foot the opposition, his vision and his ability on the ball that make all the difference.
Last edited by Steveo; 7th April 2022 at 01:19 PM.
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