KLOPP V's PEP

[BOBPAISLEYFAN]

Tbh i think there is a fag paper between the both of them on so many metrics, but given the resources available to Klopp over his tenure, the differing squads both managers inherited at their respective Clubs, and the position of both clubs now, for me Klopp wins hands down.

However, I can see why others will argue otherwise and I guess a lot of those will refer to the number of Trophies that Pep has won whilst he has been at City....

I must say i am tired of the lazy journalism that tends to refer to the trophies Man City has won under Pep as the defining eveidence of Peps clear superiority.... but IMHO they always fail to refer to the prevailing facts which colour that flawed conclusion....

As supporters we all know that luck plays a big part in any teams success and Klopp often refers to that fact when discussing the trophies he has won, but i think bad luck also plays it part.

Lets be under no illusions, Klopp has had more than enough of his fair share of bad luck... he loses a penalty shootout to Man City in the League Cup final when leading, loses a Europa League final from a winning position after 2 defensive lapses, loses a Champions League Final after Salah his best player being deliberately taken out of the game by Ramos and his goalkeeper commits two howlers.... none of those failures can be attributed to the failings of Klopp as a manager, just individual errors on the day.

Also lets not forget the cruel Worldie by Kompany which denied Klopp another potential Premier League title, and then there is the Pandemic..... A pandemic which denies Klopp the joy of celebrating his magnificent achievement of winning the Holy Grail after a thirty year wait in front of a packed Anfied and the customary and iconic parade through the City of Liverpool, one can only imagine how that experince would have eclipsed all previous parades by a country mile !!!

To top it all, after all of that Klopp endure the worst run of key defensive injuries in the history of any club denying his best side the opportunity the defend their title, which in turn allows Pep a free run to another unchallenged title.... !!

How can that be attributed to Klopps failing as a manager, simple answer it cant !!

So we can assess all of the above and see that with a bit more luck, Klopp could have easily won a League Cup, a Europa cup, another Champions League and potentially another 2 Premier league titles... bad luck is a very cruel twist of fate.

However good luck can be equally frustrating when it is enjoyed by your nearest rivals, and i think Pep has had his fair share of good luck....

Having a central defender score a Worldie out of nowhere, and then have your only nearest competitor endure a season long campaign decimated by injuries to key players... is so lucky tbf..

Finally, good luck can manifest itself in many ways and sometimes its not even on the pitch and in this regard Pep has also enjoyed incredible good luck in teams that have come out of the hat in Cup competitions throughout his tenure....


League Cup 2018.

West Brom, Wolves, Leicester, Bristol City, Arsenal in the final.

League Cup 2019.

Oxford, Fulham, Leicester, Burton Albion, Chelsea in the final winning by penalties.

FA Cup 2019.

Rotheram, Burnley, Newport, Swansea, Brighton, Watford in the Final.

League Cup 2020.

Preston North End, Southampton, Oxford Utd, Man Utd, Aston Villa in the final.

League Cup 2021.

Bournemouth, Burnley, Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs in the final.

So, looking at the sequence of games Pep has had to navigate to win his 5 Cup competitions, is hardly a list that would strike fear into any top six club, never mind Man City with the squad they have had at their disposal.

So enough of this lazy journalism, as i stated at the onset they are both brilliant managers navigating their journey with differing approaches, tactics and budgets but to say one is better than the other without considering the facts, is lazy journalism at best and ignorant at worst.

So I stand by my original statement, all things considered Jurgen Klopp is the man for me and we as Liverpool supporters are very fortunate to have him as our manager, long may it continue.

As for tomorrow, its too close to call but all things considered I think Klopp deserves to have his share of good luck this season, he has suffered enough at the cruel hands of fate....

Trust me Jurgen, we all believe !!!

YNWA

[Insidious]

Klopp also has BDE, or "Big Dick Energy" - which Pep most certainly does not have.

[Nineteenx]

It absolutely has to be remembered that City are the Max Verstappen of the Premier League, officials handing them titles they don't deserve and haven't won or earned

2018-2019 last season pre-var lots and lots of wrong decisions, offside goals, Sterling diving for penalties with no contact Taylor not sending Kompany off that handed them a Premier League title they didn't deserve and they weren't the best side. I think VAR has provided a much needed lesson to all the muppets who used to trot out the old "These things even themselves out over the course of the season" cliche, they absolutely did not in 18-19 - Klopp should without any shadow of a doubt already have 2 Premier League titles under his belt

This season, City currently have an absolutely undeniable 6 points swing they should not have, it isn't a subject of debate or open to interpretation, they got 2 points from a 1-0 win over Wolves for a penalty for handball that replays that VAR reviewed and didn't advise the ref to change his decisions showed very clearly WAS NOT handball, they got a further 2 points against the bitters for a penalty not being awarded against them when the ball very clearly hit Rodri's arm lower than the shirt sleeve and he had move it to try and control the ball quite deliberately.

I'm not even bringing the atrocious decisions to not correctly award a free kick for a foul on Alisson and a red card for a Cresswell, studs up, over the ball challenge to Hendo's knee in the reverse at West Ham into it. The penalty not awarded v Spurs was as a blatant pen as there ever was, like the City handball incidents, with absolutely no plausible excuse other than clear deliberate bias for VAR not to reverse the decision of or advise the ref to reverse his decision on

[Nineteenx]

Somewhere along the line, someone really HAS to question Guardiola's record in Europe with Bayern and City, it paints the very clear picture of a manager bankrolled to assemble THE most expensive squad with 2 top class players (and more) for each position, ever seen in the Bundesliga or Premier League and this helping him greatly in the more attrition based League and domestic cup competitions, making it easy for him to compensate for injuries and fixture congestion and allowing him to have top players more rested over the course of an entire season

However, in the Champions League and in particular the knock out stages, when pitted against the other very best managers in world football and teams in world football, where the attritional benefit of having 2 teams of top class players at your disposal doesn't have the effect it has over the course of a domestic season, he has been found desperately wanting for the past 8 seasons and most likely will be again this season

[BOBPAISLEYFAN]

Nineteen, totally agree on the VAR points and questionable refereeing decisions Man City have enjoyed, we all get the odd one in our favour, but as like UTD were, Man City are now the darlings of the Premier league despite being bankrolled outside the supposed FIFA FAIR PLAY RULES. !! ����

So i think we are both on the same page with regards Pep, good as he is lets see him do a Klopp at a Mainz/Dortmund/Liverpool type scenario with similar budget constraints whilst losing his best players to bigger fish and we will then see his true worth. Until then his legacy for me will always have a big question mark beside it.

Bobpaisley won everything without being bankrollled unfairly, and he won the European Cup (Champions league) three times in an era when you had to be Champions of your own league to enter and in a knockout format, one mistake and you are gone... in his 9 year tenure he won the League 6 times, and so was in the Champions League only 6 times, with 3 wins...I rest my case ...off you fuck Pep....I am pleased to say Jurgen Klopp is cut from the same cloth as both Shankly and Paisley, in fact it could be argued he has the best qualities of both of these iconic and legendary managers all rolled into one..

Thanks Jurgen, you are and will always be a Legend at our Club and it will be a very sad day when you finally decide to go ....

Come on lads, Give Jurgen the result we all crave..��

[Nineteenx]

That's where I am too Bob and I will never change my opinion until Guardiola's proved himself a top manager, maybe it's fair to say he's the best manager with unlimited backing, at managing the egos and squad and rotating it when he has more than two top class bought off the peg players for each position

Though when you look at Zidane's record, he isn't as good as managing a massive squad of that type over the season to stand up to the attrition aspect of the domestic league and cups, but when pitted against the very best in Europe's and the World's toughest top club competition and getting his players to perform and deliver, well, he won three Champions League's back to back, when Guardiola, despite his incredible backing and squad couldn't even reach a final.

There's an awful lot of myth making about Guardiola and innovating the game too, he isn't an innovator, they're claiming that again this season, he's just copied a great many things that were aspects of our 19-20 side and the fundamental reason we handed his tika taka "Don't shoot Vinny" side their arse, as we did the prior season also when, like Max Verstappen in F1, officials gifted them a title they simply weren't worthy or just winners of, something they, stuck in their Ferguson era 'Anyone but Liverpool' status quo of 1990-2010, are attempting to do again this season

It's up to our lads to stop them and take what's rightfully theirs this season, to somehow lift themselves above and beyond the 6 point swing officials have gifted them

[CCTV]

Klopps got to get it right today and get the 3 points, somehow, someway.....

Both managers played down the significance of the result from today's game.

Reality says:
We must win to lead by 2 points and goal difference.
&
We must not lose as City would be 4 points clear with 7 to play.
&
A draw isn't a disaster, but it's out of our hands and that's not what we want.

Undoubtedly the better manager imo, needs to win a few more trophies though and rebuild another great side at Anfield which is in part underway.