Tactics & Stuff

[redebreck]

Jurgen has publicly stated that we need to "reinvent ourselves".
Every team we ever play against has endless hours of footage available to work out how we play.
We've been relatively successful over the past three seasons, using high-intensity gegenpress.
This season, so far, our intensity has been reduced.
What do we need to do to find tactics or whatever to become as efficient as we have been previously?

[Insidious]

It's all about finding solutions isn't it - and to do that you identify the problems.

The no. 8s are the biggest issue in the side at the moment. Henderson and Milner have physically declined in terms of being "piano carriers" / covering ground (understandable) and you have the injury records of the likes of Thiago and Keita. Elliott's inexperience is showing in a physically demanding and tactically nuanced role.

One thing with Elliott (much as I rate him) is just how wide he is playing - is this down to him or to tactical instruction? Trent, Salah and Elliott are essentially occupying an area of the pitch together - perhaps the thinking is that they can counter-press in a group when we lose the ball(?) but if the first stage of the press is beaten we basically have Fabinho covering what feels like nearly a third of the pitch by himself.

So in terms of a first tactical tweak, we could address that. Elliott is neat-and-tidy and tries to progress the ball, which is to be commended - but he is being dribbled past too often at the moment. He'd function better as a no. 10 - but isn't yet at the level required to alter the whole team shape just for him.

Elliott as a 10 with Núñez ahead does appeal for spells of game - I'm sure Harvey can pick a through-ball if needed.

There are lots of little things to try with changes to the roles of players. I'm always up for trying unorthodox things for a 45-minute period just to see if they work and if they fail utterly they can be chalked off. One such thought is, if we went 4-2-3-1, to have Trent in the wide left position, cutting inside (almost the way Coutinho would have done) and being capable of providing a totally different type of delivery into those in the box whilst offering a threat from range as well. Diaz could be in the 10 in such a set-up, with Núñez a 9 and Salah in his wide right slot, with a more defensive full-back behind him and two midfielders who are capable of "sitting" a bit more and offering cover/tackling ability but can still dictate.

Using the personnel we have right now I guess that would look something like this -

........................Alisson

Gomez....Matip.....Van Dijk....Robertson

................Fabinho.....Thiago

Salah................Diaz............Trent

.........................Núñez

We will likely never see it and I certainly don't think of it as a long-term solution. I just have a bit of a thing for experimental stuff - I'd definitely try it for 20-30 minutes of a second half of football before realising it doesn't work - then try something equally eyebrow-raising the next week

[CCTV]

In general, the best opinion I've heard on tactics was Xabi Alonso.

Said you needed your 11 to be able to play 3 formations, to have that flexibility to win the big trophies.

For me Klopps 433 doesn't have the right mix for my liking. Whereas City are able to adapt more with their 11.

For me our best 11,
Has 2 of Fab/Hendo/Thiago and
4 of Diaz Jota Salah Nunez Bobby

433
Alisson
Trent Matip VVD Robbo
Hendo Fab Diaz
Salah Nunez Jota

442
Alisson
Trent Matip VVD Robbo
Salah Hendo Fab Diaz
Nunez Jota

4231
Alisson
Trent Matip VVD Robbo
Hendo Fab
Salah Diaz Jota
Nunez

Klopps way Hendo, or Elliot play as the 4th attacker. We use to leave it to Gini on the left.

City in comparison have KdB as 4th attacker & even Bastardo Silva playing behind KdB in their 433 is a more natural attacker.

[redebreck]

Whatever tactics/system we use, in my opinion we need some defensively capable midfielders, to "protect" the defence.
Who do we have?
Jordan Henderson - injured
Fabinho - isn't actually a midfield player
Milner - in the autumn of his career

All the others, imo, are more attack minded.

[vin]

It's all about finding solutions isn't it - and to do that you identify the problems.

The no. 8s are the biggest issue in the side at the moment. Henderson and Milner have physically declined in terms of being "piano carriers" / covering ground (understandable) and you have the injury records of the likes of Thiago and Keita. Elliott's inexperience is showing in a physically demanding and tactically nuanced role.

One thing with Elliott (much as I rate him) is just how wide he is playing - is this down to him or to tactical instruction? Trent, Salah and Elliott are essentially occupying an area of the pitch together - perhaps the thinking is that they can counter-press in a group when we lose the ball(?) but if the first stage of the press is beaten we basically have Fabinho covering what feels like nearly a third of the pitch by himself.

So in terms of a first tactical tweak, we could address that. Elliott is neat-and-tidy and tries to progress the ball, which is to be commended - but he is being dribbled past too often at the moment. He'd function better as a no. 10 - but isn't yet at the level required to alter the whole team shape just for him.

Elliott as a 10 with Núñez ahead does appeal for spells of game - I'm sure Harvey can pick a through-ball if needed.

There are lots of little things to try with changes to the roles of players. I'm always up for trying unorthodox things for a 45-minute period just to see if they work and if they fail utterly they can be chalked off. One such thought is, if we went 4-2-3-1, to have Trent in the wide left position, cutting inside (almost the way Coutinho would have done) and being capable of providing a totally different type of delivery into those in the box whilst offering a threat from range as well. Diaz could be in the 10 in such a set-up, with Núñez a 9 and Salah in his wide right slot, with a more defensive full-back behind him and two midfielders who are capable of "sitting" a bit more and offering cover/tackling ability but can still dictate.

Using the personnel we have right now I guess that would look something like this -

........................Alisson

Gomez....Matip.....Van Dijk....Robertson

................Fabinho.....Thiago

Salah................Diaz............Trent

.........................Núñez

We will likely never see it and I certainly don't think of it as a long-term solution. I just have a bit of a thing for experimental stuff - I'd definitely try it for 20-30 minutes of a second half of football before realising it doesn't work - then try something equally eyebrow-raising the next week

Agree with your points. But Gomez is a liability. At RB he constantly plays everyone onside. Not sure about Trent on the left with Robbo.

[Martyboy]

Whatever tactics/system we use, in my opinion we need some defensively capable midfielders, to "protect" the defence.
Who do we have?
Jordan Henderson - injured
Fabinho - isn't actually a midfield player
Milner - in the autumn of his career

All the others, imo, are more attack minded.

I'd suggest he's in the winter of his career going by what we've seen this season....Media keep saying he's 37,he isn't until January apparently...Maybe it's the beard weighing him down....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Milner

[justme]

Once we get midfielders back, we need to ditch Elliot and go with 3 strong midfielders. we can get away with a high line then we'll have more cover. The players also need to improve overall play. I think we will have enough goals in the front 3.. If everything works out ok.

[ianlfc]

Fill the midfield with ball players and keep it away as far as possible from Trent and Virgil !!

[ianlfc]

Once we get midfielders back, we need to ditch Elliot and go with 3 strong midfielders. we can get away with a high line then we'll have more cover. The players also need to improve overall play. I think we will have enough goals in the front 3.. If everything works out ok.

Harvey is a cracking young player, like the rest of them he's lacking confidence and we shouldn't be pointing the finger at a 20 year old kid. There's other more established players who should be taking responsibility.

[scientificred]

Harvey is a cracking young player, like the rest of them he's lacking confidence and we shouldn't be pointing the finger at a 20 year old kid. There's other more established players who should be taking responsibility.

Agreed Ian, but he is not suited to Klopps hectic midfielder role. Would like Jürgen to have a plan B and C. Plan A only worked with Gini and a younger, fitter Hendo and there is no sign of that duo being replaced.