Jurgen's at the wheel

[jozza800]

We can be constructively critical of Jürgen.

But be oh-so-very-careful. Doesn't take a lot to light the torch paper.

Weather the storm if there are a few iffy results ahead. Otherwise we start to see the "Manager should go if we don't get 4th" type of language and it all starts from there. We saw it with Rafa and we cannot, cannot allow it to happen to Jürgen.

It happened the season before last. There was a surprising number calling time on Jurgen's tenure...

[Nineteenx]

It happened the season before last. There was a surprising number calling time on Jurgen's tenure...

Nobody here is doing that and I don't recall anyone doing that in the season we had no senior CBs available for most of it

Pretty simple what is happening, the planned evolution hasn't worked and won't work, but pretty much everyone here is getting exactly what they've been moaning for and crying out for all the while we were the best pressing and counter pressing team in world football

Gini and Hendo were never good enough in most people's eyes and we won the Champions League and Premier League despite them according to most here and according to Jurgen to be fair given how he has treated both in one way or another

What we're seeing is we need midfielders of their type to support our defence and attack and to enable our forwards and full backs to play with the creativity and devastating directness at times that made us Champions League and Premier League Champions, while most here constantly knocked Gini and Hendo, it was always clear to me how integral they were and we wouldn't have won either of those two big pots without them or got anywhere close to doing

What have I been moaning about:

The drastic drop off in our pressing and counter pressing, and trying to be direct at times and succeeding in that or winning the second ball from that through our astute positioning in the press and counter press and where we won it providing a new less predictable and defendable point of attack we score from through being direct again - You can't do that at the levels we did at its best with Fab in the side, he doesn't read the game well enough

Lack of runs in behind - Where've they gone? Even those 2 know nothings Carra and Neville were commenting on it in last night's game - They have always been vital even against defences camped on their own 18 yard box, they take defenders with them and open up space for players to arrive into and different possibilities

Loss of ability on the counter and to be devastatingly direct through overplaying - Entirely evident so far this season and at crucial points of last

Complete loss of all automation through throwing the baby out with the bath water

So everything that made us Premier League and Champions League winners

[LEGS]

I disagree 19 I had a debate with a few who were suggesting Klopp should go.

We are struggling for players at the min and this is worst sesson for it to happen with 6 week break later.

Klopp is the one who gives me hope if we had any other manager id be very worried now.

Its s**t now but other clubs could get injury crisis too and they would then be in trouble hopefully 😎

[Nineteenx]

I disagree 19 I had a debate with a few who were suggesting Klopp should go.

We are struggling for players at the min and this is worst sesson for it to happen with 6 week break later.

Klopp is the one who gives me hope if we had any other manager id be very worried now.

Its s**t now but other clubs could get injury crisis too and they would then be in trouble hopefully ��

It's not about injuries for me, it's poor midfield recruitment and the ditching of almost everything that made us Premier League and Champions League winners - We're not and will never be an all singing all dancing passing side - The sooner Jurgen gets back to basics and remembers what made us the force we were and stops chasing a fantasy or believing his own hype trying to play a brand of football he's never managed to before the better - He needs to get over his favouritism and refusal to admit he got it drastically wrong on Fab, Thiago, Oxlade, Keita, Gomez sharpish too and accept Elliott and Jones are nowhere near reay to play anything other than bit part roles too

[Steveo]

We had a super fit and strong rock at the back in Virgil - who was at such a high level - even Gomez looked good alongside him at CB! Half the forum could have partnered him - and we would have coped.

We had a prime Mané - a prime Salah and a prime Firmino up top. They were relentless. Rarely missing any games and with 2 of the 3 always firing teams were panicked from minute 1. We had a hungry and motivated Trent - keeping the critics at bay with his incredible assist rate and Robbo running as though his life depended on it, the midfield wasn’t special then… but we had Gini doing so much still unseen and unappreciated work (the glue of our midfield) and Fabinho was huge. Henderson was playing out of his skin too but we bypassed the midfield in so much of our play.

We also had other threats though going forward. We had the option to use Shaq - a leathal weapon at times, and the super sub Origi. A player we needed last night but just don’t have. Even Oxlade served a purpose at the time.

The relatively huge investment in players post Coutinho sale is what drove us up into the top bracket. Even then we were lucky to face Spurs in the final and lucky to get a very soft penalty, people forget that.

The resulting “bills” that needed to be paid - price of success - bonuses etc - resulted in a lack of activity (actually making a profit that summer) and we have been in boom - bust cycle since then. Making do rather than going for it. Same squad went on to avenge the 1 point title loss to City and crashed. Blowing it v Atletico in both legs in the CL - losing 3:0 to Watford drawing with Everton and Burnley, losing to Arsenal and getting thumped 4:0 by city. Within our next 6 games we would lose 7:2 to Villa! With a near full strength lineup.

Players age - it’s natural, they also get injured, if success is the driving force and you are supposedly one of the biggest highest earning clubs on the planet - supposedly eclipsing United (bullshit btw) then how can we be fielding a midfield as weak as that last night? How can we have a bench so utterly bereft of anything at all after 2 games of a new season with an active transfer window?


Please explain someone - anyone

Blaming Klopp is easy but it’s totally unjustified imo - as he’s stated he isn’t in charge of transfers.

[teesred]

In what way did he get it wrong on Fabinho? He's been integral in this successful era we've had.
He might not be what he was but none of them are, age is catching them or already got some like in Milner and Hendo's case. Keita and Ox's situations are ridiculous. It should have been sorted a while ago, they should have been let go. They have both had more time than they deserve at LFC.
The midfield has been allowed to get to this point, maybe by Klopps stubbornness or the money not being available. We dont know for sure

[jozza800]

The resulting “bills” that needed to be paid - price of success - bonuses etc - resulted in a lack of activity (actually making a profit that summer) and we have been in boom - bust cycle since then. Making do rather than going for it. Same squad went on to avenge the 1 point title loss to City and crashed. Blowing it v Atletico in both legs in the CL - losing 3:0 to Watford drawing with Everton and Burnley, losing to Arsenal and getting thumped 4:0 by city. Within our next 6 games we would lose 7:2 to Villa! With a full strength lineup

The 3-0 loss was our first league defeat of the season! And the dropped points were on the way to a title procession. The 7-2 was a ridiculous game and there's no hiding from that. But we still got to Christmas top of the pile that season but it's no surprise the season started to unravel when we literally had zero defenders.

And look at this season, we've yet again got a bit of an issue with missing players and we haven't started well.

You've suggested that the lads have ran out of steam but it's not just Klopp flogging them that's got them where they are. They have talent, their record over the last 4/5 years proves this, There's only so much juice you can squeeze from a lemon. As amazing as Klopp is he's not a magician, the players still have to go out and perform. And they have done that and more...

97, 99, 75, 92 - Which is the odd one out?

I'm not saying all is rosey but there's a lot of babies being thrown out of the bath water so far this season...

[jozza800]

It's not about injuries for me, it's poor midfield recruitment and the ditching of almost everything that made us Premier League and Champions League winners - We're not and will never be an all singing all dancing passing side - The sooner Jurgen gets back to basics and remembers what made us the force we were and stops chasing a fantasy or believing his own hype trying to play a brand of football he's never managed to before the better - He needs to get over his favouritism and refusal to admit he got it drastically wrong on Fab, Thiago, Oxlade, Keita, Gomez sharpish too and accept Elliott and Jones are nowhere near reay to play anything other than bit part roles too

I really think some dont understand the idea of a squad, Elliot and Jones might not be quite ready but they're are in the side as we were missing 1st/2nd/4th/5th choice midfielders. This is why we have Milner and Elliot playing with the Clark and Bajcetic on the bench.

We do need an upgrade on one or two of the first choice lads but being critical of lads who are 6th/7th/8th in the pecking order is ridiculous. How deep do you expect us to go?

[Nineteenx]

In what way did he get it wrong on Fabinho?

Fabinho has never been integral, except for in pushing Hendo to develop and raise his game

First season, Fab wasn't employed as a DM, he was employed mostly as a high destroyer, when that got found our and teams started releasing players for transition in the centre in the space he left, he was finished for me, he was superb before teams found that tactic out and such productive ways to counter it

Fab doesn't read the game, he isn't a DM or even a midfielder, people slating Hendo yesterday for the very rarest of errors, Fab makes loads of errors every game, because he isn't a midfielder and doesn't read the game to play the press and counter press well enough - All of Palace's best chances came through Fab not being with the player he should have been with, going the wrong side of them when he didn't need to, their goal from steaming in when he just had to stand up and slow Eze down and block any potential pass

I get most people here don't appreciate our press and counter press and the importance of it, even in a game like yesterday when a cobbled together bunch of no hopers out pressed and counter pressed what used to be the best pressing and counter pressing side in world football because Elliott also has no better idea of where he should be in that than Fab and we were getting absolutely ripped down Trent's side as a result - ANd because we threw the baby out with the bath water pressing and counter pressing and winning second ball wise trying to play a tappy crappy way and overplaying that Jurgen himself has no proven track record of having any side he has managed play and that is a fact

After that first season, then the title winning season in which the team evolved massively in Fab's absence because of the vastly superior pressing and counter pressing and distribution of Hendo at No6 and when Fab came back in all of that evolution was laid to waste because Fab can't do any of those things as well as Hendo, I'd have moved him on that summer, bitten the bullet, mistake made, unexpected evolution showing a better way and got another No6 in with Hendo's qualities and abilities and never bothered with Thiago

[teesred]

But you are literally the only person who thinks that. Not one single person either on here or in the media ties in with your narrative.
That's says something.