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Thread: Thiago - the future

  1. #1
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    Thiago - the future

    Just picking up on many of the posts from Sunday and today, and to a degree the posts from our last five games.
    Many of us think we are playing better without Thiago - more direct, more variation
    The question is, I suppose, where can Thiago fit in when he is back from injury?
    Can he be coached to take up a completely different role, or will Jurgen attempt to (again) build the team around Thiago, to the detriment of our dynamism?
    There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief

  2. #2
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    First and foremost, I hope Jurgen has learned the lesson from 19-20 and bringing Fab back in without him earning it, Shankly, Bob, Joe and Kenny would never have brought a player who had picked up a knock back in if the team was playing better without them, they would have had to wait for their chance, if someone else picked up a knock, or as a sub, and that's exactly how it should be, that's the Liverpool way.

    One would hope, Jurgen will take stock and realise this group of players never needed a designated playmaker and trying to employ one was an error and speak and work with Thiago on simply being a cog in the machine like every other player rather than trying to make himself the centre of it - Educate him to make the play more as Hendo did, by giving it to our other players who are also key to our playmaking and variety of points of attack playing different kinds of balls from different areas and not constantly demanding the ball off them - Some education of the type of service our forwards and full backs thrive off and asking him to apply his alleged passing ability and brilliant technique to giving them the right type of service

    Look at the playmaking we've seen coming back from Alisson, Trent, Virgil, Konate, Hendo, Robbo and even Fab and Elliott in Thiago's absence, this team just works with the entire team contributing to making the play

    Our lads set the tempo through our pressing and counter pressing, if Jurgen wants to control games and the tempo of them better, without fucking up the other 10 players, maybe he needs to look at how he can do that using the press and counter press, maybe dropping the line a little and setting the position of the press differently when we're leading and want to conserve energy
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by redebreck View Post
    Just picking up on many of the posts from Sunday and today, and to a degree the posts from our last five games.
    Many of us think we are playing better without Thiago - more direct, more variation
    The question is, I suppose, where can Thiago fit in when he is back from injury?
    Can he be coached to take up a completely different role, or will Jurgen attempt to (again) build the team around Thiago, to the detriment of our dynamism?
    Well it’s a fair question.

    It’s a very small sample pool and crucially we have seen the return of most of the front line.

    It’s definitely a conversation worth having looking at the last few results, but there are mitigating circumstances even within the small sample pool.

    The win at Newcastle was one we all felt was hugely influenced by the sending off of their keeper. Despite our lead and them playing so long with 10 men we laboured, they created way too much and we were under genuine pressure.

    Then we have he 5 goals shipped v Real at Anfield and the detritus in the 0:0 at Selhurst Park.

    But the 5 clean sheets in the league is definitely worth exploring.

    The reality is though. In the preceding games to the Derby we were fielding Keita in the middle and Elliott in Mane’s position, even trialing with 2 up top against Brighton with Hendo Fab Oxlade and Thiago in the middle.

    All the while Gakpo was being used as a rookie, thrown into a side that was on the floor, with all these experiments taking place. The number of different midfield lineups was noticeable. That’s also when Bajcetic was given his spurs. He has added so much to the mix too.

    So while some might want to cite Thiago’s absence as being the key, I would suggest that it’s much more than that. Front line finally getting time to play together and the absence of Keita - a player who is simply uninterested at this stage.

    Last season with our full front line in operation and minus Thiago our form was sketchy over a longer period. And this season he has been our best midfielder. Klopp has a decision to make. I think we all know what will happen.

  4. #4
    Think we were lucky to keep a clean sheet sunday. Another day they take the lead and we labour trying to get an equaliser, we've seen it all too ofton the past year. Newcastle simiar and everton we were the width of a post from going behind. The fact we have not fallen behind in the 5 league matches has been massive but there has been a large slice of luck, which I think we fully deserve given everything this season. We are still giving up some big chances through direct balls through the middle. Think we will get a win at the weekend but our season will be defined by Chelsea and city games, city in particular is a match that we really need thiago back for.

  5. #5
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    Our mutual friend agreed on 4 of the last 5 outings at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    No idea how we have managed 4 Premier league clean sheets in a row

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    Our mutual friend agreed on 4 of the last 5 outings at least.
    Sure he can change the past now.......what a man

  7. #7
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    Reluctant to attribute too large a percentage of our recent upturn in form to one player.

    - Konate coming back in helps
    - Lads like Bajcetic and Elliott are hungry
    - Gakpo and Núñez are more settled into their roles
    - Jota coming back in keeps our attackers on their toes
    - Our injury list is now quite small
    - Keita isn't playing
    - Salah looks more like himself
    - Our reduced fixture list means lads look less leggy
    - Trent has found some form

    These things all stack up. The Litmus test will be seeing what we look like if Thiago comes back into the side and even if he did come back and play well it would be harder to highlight if everyone else is and anyone with an agenda against him might say he is being made to "look good" because the rest of the Machine is facilitating each Cog.

    In the longer term the goal should be to grow beyond him being an essential player - 23/24 is scheduled to be his last season with us unless we renew and with a growing list of lads over the age of 30 we do need to start replacing players here and there so it doesn't become a massive job further down the line. It would also be £200k-per-week off the wage bill - potentially 3 squad players at £65k-per-week having their wages covered. I am in no rush to "drive him to the Airport myself" as I love watching him play, just thinking about the future which is something I've always done.

    If (huge if) Bellingham did come then you would have 3 lads in midfield next season who are 19-20 years of age. That doesn't mean all 3 would be first-choice, but the more of our midfield roster that are on the younger end of the spectrum the better. All but one of our attacking unit would be 30+ so we are off to a great start on the rebuild and if we could get a couple of younger mids and a younger centre-back over the next 1-3 windows then the squad's long-term health could look a lot better.

  8. #8
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    Excellent points well made Sid..

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious View Post
    Reluctant to attribute too large a percentage of our recent upturn in form to one player.

    - Konate coming back in helps
    - Lads like Bajcetic and Elliott are hungry
    - Gakpo and Núñez are more settled into their roles
    - Jota coming back in keeps our attackers on their toes
    - Our injury list is now quite small
    - Keita isn't playing
    - Salah looks more like himself
    - Our reduced fixture list means lads look less leggy
    - Trent has found some form

    These things all stack up.
    Pretty much everything on your list is he result of our returning to our way of playing prior to when the overplaying began, Jurgen playing to all our players strengths again

    I've documented pretty much everything we lose by overplaying, trying to operate with a designated playmaker, having no runs in behind, having no width on our left and no forward supporting Robbo

    Not doing it all again, but just for one out of a plethora of things trying to revert back to how we played 18-20 pre Jota and removing the width on our left and pre Thiago and trying to use a designated playmaker and overplaying has changed positively and everything that goes with it, Virgil playing his medium to longer passes again rather than the ball being constantly demanded off him short obviously really helps

    We need mo and LFWD pushed up and making their runs in behind for this and the full backs supporting runs they had stopped making nearly as many of them through the overplaying and service not being provided

    It stops us being easily pressed

    It improves our pressing and counter pressing and winning of second balls hugely.
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  10. #10
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    Christ, this top level elite managerial stuff is hard on the noggin....

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