Thiago - the future

[Nineteenx]

Even now just been watching his full season show from last season, there are 3 or 4 wow moments, that actually amounted to something, that look smooth as silk, his Porto goal, a couple of assists for Mane, but it's Mane, not the hardest of balls to play, of course made it look fancier than it needed to with his showboating, and Mane put both right in the corner, because Mane's Mane, overall, creativity wise and top top quality balls of the type our forwards and full backs thrive on, it's not nearly enough, an awful lot of nearly balls, far far too many, when using just good solid technique instead of trying to be fancy it was on to be better than nearly

[HLOGI]

Your evidence?

Since he arrived Premier League

Thiago P63 Goals 2 Assists 4 Big chances created 7
2 of those assists from him playing a nothing short pass to Diaz, who then ran at the defence from in front of them not through being released, got half a yard and smashed the ball home

Henderson P78 Goals 3 Assists 6 Big chances created 12

Fabinho P82 Goals 5 Assists 1 Big chances created 2

All Fab's goals coming last season 2 of them pens 3 from corners, one a header the other 2 smashing in a ball knocked down from close range

The stats say Henderson is our most creative midfielder, creating more than Fab and Thiago combined as unpopular as that might be they also say that Thiago very rarely assists, or releases a player to assist or creates any big chances

If you read with understanding u would have had no need to reply or to clog the internet with all the characters you send into the web.

[Steveo]

enjoy

[Nineteenx]

I think if/when he comes back in, he needs to play at RCM

LCM Henderson/Bajcetic No6 Henderson/Fabinho RCM Thiago Elliott works best in my opinion

Watching Thiago's 21/22 highlights and contrasting it with our tried and tested MAJOR trophy winning way of playing and even with the recent game v the filthy where we looked and played more like we did in 18-20 it's easy to see how and why we're easy to play through, you see lots of the same positioning as that which led to the winning goal for Real in last season's Champions League final

for me we need to continue with the more 18-20 style and we need a return of a LCM controller, because Thiago doesn't play that role anymore, he did for a few games for a period, but it's looks more like a No6 and 2 attacking mids, making us easier to counter and play straight through if our moves break down or a pass is intercepted

I've advocated Thiago at RCM for a very long time, it is for me where he has played best for us since he came

[Nineteenx]

Meanwhile, we could very well be looking at Koopmeiners for the LCM controller role as he has the switches and medium to longer passing Thiago lacks, they get there quicker, have the right spin and open teams up and we have just the players to make the runs for them

[dicko1969]

2021-2022 how do you explain

[Nineteenx]

2021-2022 how do you explain

Reverting to a more direct way of playing when it wasn't working, but then we tried the old possession footballing team nonsense again at the start of this season and for longer, we even ditched and switched and chopped and changed systems and more than once and all sorts to try and make that work and get the best out of Thiago and Elliott for that matter this season and to hell with any of our other long established players preferred was of playing and form it was

There were a number of games last season in which we overplayed, played in front of teams and our pressing and counter pressing was shite, I know this because I complained about it on numerous match threads

Earlier this season I complained about it again saying it was goundhog day, he tried it last season for too many games and it didn't work, it was a shit idea so had to revert to being more direct if not entirely back to 18-20 style as he has of late and here he was starting this season trying it all over again

Here's the thing, and it should be obvious

Trying to play a possession game as Jurgen tried to your press and counter press is going to suffer massively, you can have top level crushing machine no other team ever wants to play pressing, counter pressing, winning second balls, runs in behind, direct, in your face, lightning counters, shortest route to goal Liverpool, or you can have trying to emulate the 19-20 City side whose arse we handed to them playing the first way, but you CANNOT have both

Trying to play possession, you commit more players forward, and have more players making runs looking to be played through, which means you can't have the number of players you need to play a top top pressing and counter pressing game picking up players and taking great positions to counter press players and win second balls as a new point of attack to stop the opposition getting possession easy and launching counters easy or playing through

Above just there ^^^^^ is exactly why teams have been scoring first, countering us easy and playing through us easy, too open, not enough players committed to our pressing and counter pressing game, a complete loss of ability to pen teams in and deny them almost any meaningful possession or counters at all, having a No6 in Fab who is so disastrously positionally inept and always an incredible risk to leave at No6 without a LCm controller alongside has always been obviously problematic since he returned to the side in 19-20

Another huge mitigating factor in 21-22 was having Konate and Matip fit all season and Jurgen rotating them so we didn't have to use Gomez much at all at CB as he's also a liability and has long been and having so many fit forwards available to compete in all comps Salah, Mane, Bobby, Jota, Diaz, Minamino, Origi and having younger mids who with Milner and/or Hendo who were 'good enough' for lower level opponents in cups

Edit: Steveo was prattling on about goals scored somewhere or other, look at the forwards we had available all season, having that at your disposal to bring on quality for the last 20 minutes when you're already winning AND with them all having been their at least 2 seasons, not having any of them bedding in having lost a senior experienced forward who was essential to the front line press and whose game all the other players knew

[Steveo]

A look at a wider variety of his abilities.



Imagine we have 2 mids at this level... mmm

[Nineteenx]

He's the nearly man far too often, I actually think if he just played the ball without trying to showboat and over elaborate a lot of his nearly passes would likely become the right passes, almost all his passes are just too short, just too long, just lacking the right spin, just not quite the right angle, just too flighty and in the air too long

Tony Cascarino actually did a piece I found also pretty much saying we need a controller there rather than Thiago, I don't get why we just don't play him at RCM, teams are cutting through us and getting joy on counters far too easy with his positioning meaning we are effectively playing with 2 attacking mids leaving just Fabinho, whose positioning and decision making is awful back at No6, which in itself detracts from our pressing ability

Spain leaving Thiago out of the world cup also tells its own story, as does him leaving for Bayern rather than trying to take on Xavi's role at Barca

[Nineteenx]

Whoever plays LCM needs to play the controller role, just been watching various highlights it's clear as day our LCM trying to be a second attacking mid is an issue, Bajectic as well as Thiago

Bajectic needs to quit trying that Thiago style signature move he wowed the easily impressed with in his first couple of games, teams have it sussed, he got robbed 3 or 4 times v Wolves and Real trying it, one of the Real ones leading to thei second goal and robbed in practically the No10 position too when he was supposed to be LCM controller

Easy to see why i want him to have a run b[]alongside/b[] our most responsible and positionally best midfielder and i mean alongside not just in the same midfield as he's already picking up some very bad habits from playing alongside our mids who have them in abundance after a brilliant start