Thiago - the future

[jozza800]

He's the nearly man far too often, I actually think if he just played the ball without trying to showboat and over elaborate a lot of his nearly passes would likely become the right passes, almost all his passes are just too short, just too long, just lacking the right spin, just not quite the right angle, just too flighty and in the air too long

Tony Cascarino actually did a piece I found also pretty much saying we need a controller there rather than Thiago, I don't get why we just don't play him at RCM, teams are cutting through us and getting joy on counters far too easy with his positioning meaning we are effectively playing with 2 attacking mids leaving just Fabinho, whose positioning and decision making is awful back at No6, which in itself detracts from our pressing ability

Spain leaving Thiago out of the world cup also tells its own story, as does him leaving for Bayern rather than trying to take on Xavi's role at Barca

Spain were rubbish at the World Cup and not getting into one of the best midfields of all time is hardly a crime...

[Steveo]

And... more showing those passes & some sumptous skill BUT a multitude of situations where he wins the ball back and keeps possession. We don't have any other player close to this technical level except the rising star of Stefan - and he has a long way to go yet.



He isn't making simple passes either. He is taking out 3 or 4 players often in very difficult situations. situations where he turns defence into attack. THIS is why Klopp always picks him when fit. Sadly - he ain't getting any younger and is operating mostly alone. Who else do we have that can take the ball and keep it or play a progressive pass when surrounded by 2 or 3 opposition players?

[JockStrap]

Who else do we have that can take the ball and keep it or play a progressive pass when surrounded by 2 or 3 opposition players?

Bajcetic looks like he can do that but he's the only other one we have. It is a real skill and only the best players have it.

Thiago is a brilliant player but there's no doubt we're a different team when he plays. It always seems a slightly slower tempo with him in the side. That's not a criticism, just pointing out that he changes the dynamic.

[Steveo]

Bajcetic looks like he can do that but he's the only other one we have. It is a real skill and only the best players have it.

Thiago is a brilliant player but there's no doubt we're a different team when he plays. It always seems a slightly slower tempo with him in the side. That's not a criticism, just pointing out that he changes the dynamic.

It's true and it's where I have agreed with 19. I maintain, we would have ideally brought in him or a player like him in with a younger age profile and a good few years earlier too.

[Steveo]

That and ideally keeping hold of Gini - or a like for like replacement then you can mix it up more without compromise. To play a more possession based slower game, Thiago into the current setup isn’t really enough.

That said - if he had played in a just a few more last season, we easily win the league based on the stats and a treble of sorts - is ours.

[redebreck]

The way I see it, we should play with our variation and dynamism and directness at the start of our games until we are comfortable, then bring in Thiago to slow things down.
Rather than the other way round. In my humble opinion, we are too predictable when Thiago is started.

[Steveo]

As I say it sounds fine, but if we look at the points dropped last season in the 12 games he missed through injury or illness, it's 13 points. We could conceivably call that 38-44 points dropped over the season..70-76- points..

We dropped 9 in the 26 games he played in. This includes his 16 minutes v Chelsea and the game at West Ham - coming back from injury - and us already losing. And we missed out by a single point

Put this next to the 26 points from 30 without Virgil, Hendo or any senior CB's from the season prior... and the points total is 95 points from 36 games - cannot forget... this includes those 10 games without Virgil, Hendo or any senior CB's. People are looking at this season - and he has still been our best mid.. but they are looking at a snapshot of a few games where we had a decimated front line- and absent Virgil and a side that was on the floor physically.

It is valid to look at Thiago - but I think it's strange to single out such an obvious talent within our ranks and one who has been a key part of us overachieving since the winter of 2020/21

[Nineteenx]

I'll always look back to the incredible levels we played the pressing and counter pressing game in 19-20 in Fab's absence, in the run Jurgen and Liders hailed a few of our performances as near perfection when people talk about midfielders and tackles and intercept stats

I appreciate that the status quo of almost everyone here is of hard running midfielders chasing players down flying into tackles sliding in to intercepts and that it's exciting and entertaining for them and why they like it

However in terms of pressing and counter pressing played to the highest level, it actually demonstrates those players aren't doing it well enough and are frequently poorly positioned

Thiago hasn't made us over achieve at all, his passing has barely yielded an assist or released a player to assist and a lot of our issues have come through needlessly overplaying and the biproducts of it

We've under achieved hugely in terms of progression since our 19-20 peak through persisting with players our peak revealed as surplus to requirements and not good enough to play the system to its highest or even higher levels and poor recruitment including Thiago

Had we not had the 20-21 injuries so got to play Gini Hendo Thiago all players fit things could have been very different, but with Fab around despite his inability to play the system to its highest or higher levels Jurgen never would have done that for the necessary run of games