Henderson

[Steveo]

When he doesn't play we suffer

We haven’t often performed too well
Without him. Although some of our best form in the last 3 years did come while he was absent. This season we have suffered with him and without him. He has come into games we were drawing and we have lost. Games v bottom of the table dross too. So we have to be balanced.

It’s not cut and dry. But you should always miss your captain.

[shminkyred]

Captain marvel! why can't he start more than 1 game a week now?? hes only 32, not an 102.
He got a huge wage increase and hes gone to shit since.
hes been terrible this season, along with many others.. But hes the captain and should be doing way better than he is.

we should be beating the team at the bottom of the table..... and if you work a horse to death it's gonna go lame

[shminkyred]

Not sure I follow, correct me if I am way off - you want me to work out how many minutes all 25 of our lads could have played this season and cross reference it against their form and/or performance levels?

I don't see the merit of that to be honest. I think two important (and linked) contextual factors, if you want to look at context, would be his age and who we might be bringing in for the midfield - I would always lean towards rotation where possible (particularly of older players) and would always look to the future, ie we shouldn't want/need/aspire towards starting a 32(?)-year old mid match after match after match.

As an aside, age doesn't always tell the story. Casemiro is older than Fabinho but has played 21,000 or so career minutes to Fabinho's 27,000 or so, which could suggest some of Fab's apparent burnout. Think of lads like Rooney for example.

just admit you cant do it...lol

[Steveo]

we should be beating the team at the bottom of the table..... and if you work a horse to death it's gonna go lame

Can’t argue with this. We shouldn’t need Hendo - or Virgil or even Alisson to get past any team at the foot of the table.

And Hendo has been worked to death. New contract or not. Look at Virgil. Still a decent age for his game but he looks wasted too. Too many games in the legs making those runs (to avoid the last ditch tackles) to thwart the attacker that helped us win all those games.

[Nineteenx]

you should always miss your captain.

We miss Hendo and the system played as it should be immensely

When he isn't available Milner should absolutely play as we're always missing a captain whenever Virgil has the armband

I get the furstration of yesterday, i think Jurgen rested Hendo to play his shiny new thing, to disastrous effect

Our captain who didn't start and faced a monumental task of trying to raise an entire team that was flat as a pancake, playing an instrumental part in the chance we got the pen from being created only for Mo to miss wildly seems to be getting a hell of a lot of completely unwarranted shit and blame for just how piss poor Fab, Bajcetic and Elliott were without him

Oddly enough Fab and Elliott both had their best games of the season with our captain operating at LCM controller just the game before

[ianlfc]

We miss Hendo and the system played as it should be immensely

When he isn't available Milner should absolutely play as we're always missing a captain whenever he has the armband

I get the furstration of yesterday, i think Jurgen rested Hendo to play his shiny new thing, to disastrous effect

Our captain who didn't start and faced a monumental task of trying to raise an entire team that was flat as a pancake, playing an instrumental part in the chance we got the pen from being created only for Mo to miss wildly seems to be getting a hell of a lot of completely unwarranted shit and blame for just how piss poor Fab, Bajcetic and Elliott were without him

Oddly enough Fab and Elliott both had their best games of the season with our captain operating at LCM controller just the game before

You could go round in circles here mate saying, Jordan had his best game with Elliott or Fabinho playing.
Changes need made I think we can all agree and if Bellingham doesn't sign we're going to look even more daft than we did after yesterday's result and that's saying something.

[Nineteenx]

You could go round in circles here mate saying, Jordan had his best game with Elliott or Fabinho playing.
.

No because he covered for Fab dropping into No6 and doing so and telling Fab to push on also, he was the one controlling our midfield and making it possible

A lot needs sorting out, a lot got changed in 20-21 after which we no longer had Gini LCM controller and we've never really got the midfield set up properly to support our defence, forward and full backs as well as it used to since

The absence of a LCM controller in too many games is the reason we keep conceding first and have been so easy to play through and counter, it's not about legs, it's about organisation and positioning, if it were about legs, what possible excuse do you have for both Bajcetic and Elliott's pathetic displays and failure to even run back on Bournemouth counters yesterday, can't blame that on a 4 year cycle can you : o

[dicko1969]

Question...
Why are Bajcetic and Elliott first choice starters ?

[Steveo]

Age profile and fitness of seniors I would say. Can’t rely on Keita or Oxlade or Jones and Milner’s legs have all but gone.

[dicko1969]

Exactly.
Just goes to show how bad the midfield got.
Unbelievable that only possibly a rookie like 18yo Bajcetic is the only player 'good enough' and has the level.

I think we'd all agree that Jones Milner Ox Keita , and to less extent Fabinho , Henderson are not good enough (anymore or never were).
Elliott isn't quite ready, but at 19yo has another 4 years to peak, gain experience, and strength.

It's a joke that Liverpool have waited so long.

Even if Liverpool got in 5 or 6 midfielders that would be a minimum tbh.

Fingers crossed for AT LEAST TWO.