Reply With QuoteVirgil played almost exactly the same number of minutes, 1 minute difference, as in 2019/20 when we only competed in the League and Champions League and were knocked out of the later at the last 16
He played less minutes than in 18-19
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First Team
Well and truly dispelled by the actual stats of number of appearances, we rotated very heavily throughout with much greater strength in depth - Can we please now stop trotting out the lame as fuck excuse of how many games we played last season as if our regular first teamers played loads more games than they do in a normal season -
And can we also stop trying to the pedal the myth that Thiago led us to anything when he only played in 39 of our 63 games and he was subbed on after the hour in 13 (THIRTEEN) of those and subbed off on around the hour in 6 of them and subbed off in a further 10 games, meaning he only actually played 20 (TWENTY) full games in a season in which we played 63 games altogether
Alisson 54
Kelleher 8
Robbo 47 Less than usual
Tsimikas 26
Virgil 51 pretty standard, not more games
Konate 29
Matip 43 Less than a usual Champions League latter stages season
Gomez 21
Trent 47 standard latter stage of Champions League season without any other cup runs
Conor Bradley 5
Hendo 57 about 6 more than usual, but quite a number of sub appearance there where he was rested
Fabinho 48 standard latter stage of Champions League season without any other cup runs quite a few late sub apps
Thiago 39 less than a standard latter stage of Champions League season and also dispelling the myth he led us to anything
Milner 39 games less than standard latter stage of Champions League season without any other cup runs
Keita 40 (Forty)less than standard latter stage of Champions League season without any other cup runs
Oxlade 29 less than standard latter stage of Champions League season without any other cup runs
Jones 27 less than standard latter stage of Champions League season without any other cup runs
Elliott 11 (ELEVEN) and we were so much better without him Prem 6 FA 3 UCL 1 EFL Cup 1
Morton 35 (Thirty five)
Kaide Gordon 4
Mo Salah 51 standard latter stage of Champions League season without any other cup runs
Mane 51 standard latter stage of Champions League season without any other cup runs
Diaz 32 less than standard latter stage of Champions League season without any other cup runs
Firmino 31 less than standard latter stage of Champions League season without any other cup runs
Jota 55 about 4 or 5 more than usual, but quite a number of sub appearance there where he was rested
Minamino 24 - 10 goals and 1 assist too, not too shabby at all, Elliott isn't so much a poor man's Minamino, as a paupers Minamino
Origi 18 - 6 goals and 4 assists too, not too shabby either
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
First Team
Virgil played almost exactly the same number of minutes, 1 minute difference, as in 2019/20 when we only competed in the League and Champions League and were knocked out of the later at the last 16
He played less minutes than in 18-19
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
First Team
Only Hendo played more minutes than in any other season (last season being the first under Jurgen we've contested both domestic cups) and not that many more and he had medium term injuries in the 19-20, 20-21 and had less minutes in 18-19 as Jurgen tried to phase him out
THAT is what you call leading
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
First Team
Morton was only 15 senior games i accidentally included his EPL2 and ECL2 stats
Still 15 and quite a few starts in that too
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
Rowdy Yates
And we dropped more points (13) in the 12 games Thiago missed last season through injury than the (9) in the 25 games he played in.
In fact we dropped the same number of points (13) in the 35 games I keep highlighting - including 10 without Virgil and in fact NO senior CB’s OR the Captain.
A 35 game stretch where we, with an ageing midfield and a stuttering front line - still managed to take 92 points. An irrefutable fact that vanquishes every attempt you desperately make in trying to paint black as white.
First Team
Let's not get away from the main stay of this thread, that our players aren't below par through playing more games and minutes last season
And you can continue to highlight stats that are entirely meaningless in a team game played by 11 players that have no merit or bearing on why or how we achieved wins or dfaws, it's just a nonsense, i could just as easily say look at how Gini was our real leader in Hendo's absence and guided us on the most unlikely of runs and that wouldn't be true or meaningful either, but it'd be a damned site closer to being true looking at how Thiago's faired in his role since Gini left
And looking at Gini's goals and assists in Serie A this season in what is effectively just 5 games following his recovery from a fractured tibia, compared to Thiago's 0 Goals or assists despite having hogged the ball and having had far more of it than any other player, depriving our players who actually can create and score of more opportunities to do so
Or maybe it was all down to Alisson and Trent, Alisson's brilliant saves and his brilliant goal v West Brom assisted by Trent inspiring all the other lads, which again holds far more water than what you're trying to imply
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
First Team
Has Kaide Gordon been injured most of the season?
I thought we'd have seen a bit of him in the first team squad.
Rowdy Yates
Again - a totally bogus claim made. results and performances being ignored when it suits your joke of an agenda. Resorting to isolating last season now. As though we can now forget all those miles clocked up in the massive shifts put in before the first crash arrived during the title defence season. Something you will also try to ignore.Originally Posted by Nineteenx
Let's not get away from the main stay of this thread, that our players aren't below par through playing more games and minutes last season
And you can continue to highlight stats that are entirely meaningless in a team game played by 11 players that have no merit or bearing on why or how we achieved wins or dfaws, it's just a nonsense, i could just as easily say look at how Gini was our real leader in Hendo's absence and guided us on the most unlikely of runs and that wouldn't be true or meaningful either, but it'd be a damned site closer to being true looking at how Thiago's faired in his role since Gini left
And looking at Gini's goals and assists in Serie A this season in what is effectively just 5 games following his recovery from a fractured tibia, compared to Thiago's 0 Goals or assists despite having hogged the ball and having had far more of it than any other player, depriving our players who actually can create and score of more opportunities to do so
Or maybe it was all down to Alisson and Trent, Alisson's brilliant saves and his brilliant goal v West Brom assisted by Trent inspiring all the other lads, which again holds far more water than what you're trying to imply
You have consistently refused to answer the key question that lies at the heart of your claims about this season.
Is Hendo capable of playing at the same level in 2023 as he was in 2019?
Ditto:
Milner,
Fabinho,
Matip,
Virgil,
Oxlade,
Bobby,
Mo,
Thiago?
and where is:
Mané
Gini ?
Shaqiri ?
Origi ?
Lallana ?
Pretty obvious at to why too. To answer it genuinely, would have your house of cards collapse.
Your theory that Klopp has changed the system is deeply flawed. When it’s exposed as such, you twist and turn to blame recruitment.
When you are shown that Virgil played every single minute of every single premier league and CL game (bar Bayern at home) in 2018/19 & again in 2019/20 you ignore that too and instead try to move on to last season where he again racked up over 4,500 minutes in his first season back after a major lay off.
You can’t accept reality. You then try to provide proof that reality is in fact not reality. This makes it very easy - if long winded - for those who refuse to let you get away with it to expose your nonsense for what it is.
Myths are one thing, what you are undertaking is more simple. It’s garbage.
Last edited by Steveo; 4th April 2023 at 08:43 AM.
Rowdy Yates
Miles on the clock: A look under the hood in career minutes.
29 Fabinho 38.000
31 Virgil 42,000
32 (soon to be 33) Hendo 42,000. at Fabs current age (29) he had around 29,000 mins
37 Milner 54,000
31 Bobby 39,000
30 Salah 42,000
32 (in 7 days) Thiago 33,000
32 Gini 47,000
31 (in 6 days) Mané 37,000
How can anyone claim that it is Klopp’s change of style that has them all declining or underperforming now…?
Seriously..? If anything it’s the opposite
Last edited by Steveo; 4th April 2023 at 09:15 AM.
Koala tea
Great post 19 - appreciaye the effort- it always feels like people look for excuses (naturally enough) and rarely say what would solve the issue - or more realistically there is no solution.
For example, would giving our first team a month's holidays during this current season be enough to re-charge the batteries. Klopp seemed to try this with a few players recently and in essence since the 7-0 bumming of the fitlh we've been largely shite.
We were 3 points of top4 then iirc and oppopsition results haven't been electric since by and large.
Top players are expected to play many minutes - and want to play all the time. Top teams are expected to perform at the highest levels.
Ideally they do the preseason, rebuild their fitness during this period and keep it ticking over for the season.
I see Steveo had an argument with your presentation, and I presume from previous chats, that he'll say we play at an intensity that others don't- like more control/possession styled Spanish teams. But I never find that convincing as it seems hard to believe that there's a really easy way to play and a hard way.
Peps barca side were incredible for work rate, and the current Real side are incredibly well organised and pragmatic. Against us they sat in and settled down after both goals at Anfield.
Personally I'd sack Lijnders and bring in Rafa as a coach. Both Pep and Klopp have bemoaned the bus as easy football, had Klopp setup an easy Bus at 2-0 v real... we are in the next round of the CL.
Certainly should have added to midfield last summer with 2 additions.
Enzo was bought for 14 million last summer, and Nunes for 30 something million.
That would have been 2 new additions for 50 million. Could have bummed out Ox and Keita for 10-15 million combined and moved on.
Think it was eggy who said it seemed like staleness had set in, and that seems more plausible. A lack of new additions to the midfield, and a tactical plan that hasn't changed in a good while.
By reaching the heights we have hit, you start to get a lot of attention. For some teams that gets figured out drumming the season, for others the second season syndrome.
Thats why I'd like to see a change in tactics, get Trent our of Rb, a double pivot base to rotate Fab, play Mo off/beside Nunez. Offer something new to opponents and our lads.
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