Reply With QuoteCorrectOriginally Posted by jozza800
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Rowdy Yates
You don't have to agree with my reasoning on the why, but it happened. All 3 have either left or are about to leave. Probably the 3 hardest working players we have had over the period too. 2 have left and their levels dropped (Mane's was already on the wane pre AFCON tbf) and the 3rd has been a shadow of his best for a few years now.
I say it is no coincidence, and I am by no means alone in that assumption. The media BS that gets spun around WHY players leave, is just that...spin, it is often as far removed from reality as WMD...and our club is owned by the owner of the Boston Globe so deciphering truth from fiction is particularly tricky.
What can't speak, can't lie. All 3 players have worked their butts off and looked to move on. Virgil is another example - he played every single game in every single competition (bar 1 due to suspension) over a 2 year period. That is ridiculous. We won 1 each of the big prizes as a result...
He wasn't close to his peak in the following season (title defence) before breaking down with injury after Prickfords challenge. He again played over 4,500 minutes last season - straight back into the team after a long term injury and WHAM!!.. 4.620' minutes of high intensity football. And he has been a shadow of what he can be this season too.
Eventually people are going to have to accept that the boom and bust we have witnessed is the logical result of playing the way we have. You cannot play Klopp's Heavy Metal (shit music) football every season.
Last edited by Steveo; 19th April 2023 at 04:44 PM.
First Team
Correct
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
First Team
Again quite a few other teams have had a lot more injuries than we have over the time Jurgen has been here, we've been very good with injuries because our style of play is actually more rhythmic and when played right, played in just one half of the pitch, when we do risk injury is when Fab lets our press get broken, but that's not down to the style of play, it's down to Jurgen continuing to field a player who has been the chief culprit of letting our press get broken, way out on his own in that for 4 seasonsEventually people are going to have to accept that the boom and bust we have witnessed is the logical result of playing the way we have. You cannot play Klopp's Heavy Metal (shit music
I WILL agree that the Premier League is the most physically demanding league in world football, but I disagree on our style of play being a cause, I think other teams who do a lot more end to end running and longer sprints in games suffer and have suffered far more from injury and fatigue than ours, which is why apart from injuries caused by fouls, through impact or holding our players have done very much really well
Virgil used to have to do a lot more running and sprints playing for Southampton btw
It makes no sense, we condense the play into half of the pitch a lot of the time, so shorter distances to run, our sprints are usually short sprints, except for when 'someone' lets the press get broken, a lot of our players movement isn't taxing as they keep in areas taking good positions to cover opposition players in case our play breaks down and to be able to join the attack if the opportunity arises to
I have barely ever seen Fab sprint for example, and Virgil's stats show pretty consistently he doesn't have as much defending to do as cbs of other sides, most of his defending is duels won or lost, aerial battles won or lost (which having both of is weird as the definition for the duels stats says they are mostly aerial duels) Virgil makes less than a tackle a game consistently and tackling is without doubt the most strenuous and labour intensive part if Cb play, sprinting to catch up and/or stay with the player you're trying to tackle, and the act of going to ground to make the tackle, all against pretty much all very quick forwards -
Gabriel has almost twice the number of tackles Virgil has this season for example, he had more than 3 (THREE) times more tackles than Virgil last season
As I have continually said and the stats continually show, Liverpool Cbs have been protected like they're an endangered species, you only need to look at the run we went on at the end of 20-21 thanks to Trent, Robbo, Alisson, Gini, Mane, Mo, Bobby. Jota etc and how we were able to field Rhys Williams and Phillips at CB and stop most clubs getting at them to understand that
To try and assert our style of play is somehow exhausting and more taxing on our Cbs than other teams is an absolutely nonsense and all the stats concur with that, it's been the easiest Cb gig going in the league for 5 seasons
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
Rowdy Yates
Well then, if what you say is true… we were never close to an elite squad. A couple of key injuries and we crumble.
Also there was never any Heavy Metal football and we didn’t outwork sides.
Ok then… As you were
First Team
The press and counter press really doesn't involve our Cbs does it Steveo? they just pick up the forwards at the base of it again it involves less running and the type of running that puts most strain on players soft tissues, why are you so insistent pressing and counter pressing is all about legs and charging about everywhere, it's like you've never understood it or wanted to
It's like in your mind, you see every player constantly doing the kind of run Robbo did going from player to player to player all that there's the famous youtube of all game every game, it's just not like that, players do that very rarely in the system
Last edited by Nineteenx; 19th April 2023 at 09:54 PM.
"If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”
First Team
Dear Steveo, what Robbo does here is an exception, something one of our lads will do very rarely in a game, what the other lads are doing, jogging to be in a good pressing and counter pressing position is the norm, not exactly energy and soft tissue intensive is it? Good pressing and counter pressing is more about consistently excellent positioning and repositioning off one another and the oppositions players, reading of the game and anticipation, when done correctly and at its best without weak links who let it down, not about charging about like Robbo does here for 90 minutes of every game as you seem to think it is
There actually isn't a single better youtube to demonstrate what people THINK and try and tell others we do for 90 minutes a game and is involved in good pressing and counter pressing (Robbo) and what the reality of good pressing and counter pressing and how we do it most of the time involves (the rest of the team)
Last edited by Nineteenx; 19th April 2023 at 10:28 PM.
Master Tactician
I definitely think we're suffering both mental and physical fatigue and the squad could certainly do with freshening up. I just don't think being tired is the reason those 3 players left.
Rowdy Yates
I would agree. But when you have been running and running the hard yards for so long, and you suspect your game is on a downward trajectory as a result, you look to prolong the career.
It is no coincidence that the 3 players mentioned, imo - our 3 most relentless workers, have all ended up in boats, heading in the same direction.
It wasn’t a case of just being tired. More a case of… It’s taken so much out, how much more do I have left. People forget, these are human beings with lives and careers. They aren’t little red machines.
There is huge emotional attachment to this club YET the same result.
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