Elliott opens up about fear of joining Liverpool

[Nineteenx]

And here are the per game defensive stats for Thiago versus Hendo+Elliott combined.
It's a grim read for both Rcm's this year.

The issue with your presentation and use of stats CCTV as ever, is they're bear little meaningful relevance to the point you're trying to make which your continuing to do seems a very strong indicator that you don't understand our system of play

A look at some of Steveo's recent posts might help you, specifically his youtubes of Fab and Thiago as both show how the pressing and counter pressing game affects these stats and that without also having stats for successful presses and counter presses, the stats you keep presenting are meaningless without.

Steveo's youtubes inadvertently (as it wasn't his intended purpose for posting them) show lots of instances of our other players doing this really well, forcing a player into an area for another to make a tackle or blocking the lines to leave an opponent one option for a pass to make an interception easy and possible for another of our players, that's how the system works

In both Fab and Thiago's youtubes there are also many instances of them making tackles they're only having to make because they haven't played the system well and have allowed a player to be released in their area, so No of tackles can also be a stat indicating poor play, letting the press be broken, the showreels of course don't show the times they don't get back after the player and make a tackle

Most successful opposition attacks this season have been down our left and left of centre

[Nineteenx]

There are also instances of both playing the system as it is supposed to be played, taking good positions off our other players and making the tackles and intercepts the system and other players make easy through their playing the system well

The abandonment of the LCM controller role with LCM also being attacking in many games has had a very negative impact, it's affected the mechanics of both sides and Fab, that isn't a dig at Thiago, whose youtube shows quite a few instances of him making tackles coming back from the wrong side of players released beyond him, as he surely must have been instructed to operate that way, as Bajcetic did to disastrous effect v Bournemouth, the difference between our display in the prior game and in our first meeting v Bournemout, which we used a LCM controller in both of being incredible

[darrenpotter]

The issue with your presentation and use of stats CCTV as ever, is they're bear little meaningful relevance to the point you're trying to make which your continuing to do seems a very strong indicator that you don't understand our system of play

A look at some of Steveo's recent posts might help you, specifically his youtubes of Fab and Thiago as both show how the pressing and counter pressing game affects these stats and that without also having stats for successful presses and counter presses, the stats you keep presenting are meaningless without.

Steveo's youtubes inadvertently (as it wasn't his intended purpose for posting them) show lots of instances of our other players doing this really well, forcing a player into an area for another to make a tackle or blocking the lines to leave an opponent one option for a pass to make an interception easy and possible for another of our players, that's how the system works

In both Fab and Thiago's youtubes there are also many instances of them making tackles they're only having to make because they haven't played the system well and have allowed a player to be released in their area, so No of tackles can also be a stat indicating poor play, letting the press be broken, the showreels of course don't show the times they don't get back after the player and make a tackle

Most successful opposition attacks this season have been down our left and left of centre

His stats are spot on. As with most things both soccer and your personal life you cannot admit when there is an issue. Replying 5 times to yourself is pretty indicative of what a manipulative controlling fucker you are and why the old bill have had to tell you to stay away from your ex. Henderson is done, good servant but he is a massive problem and him being captain complicates it further if he doesn't move on next year we don't move on its that simple.

[Nineteenx]

His stats are spot on. What a manipulative controlling fucker you are and why the old bill have had to tell you to stay away from your ex.

His stats are right, but without successful press and counter press stats and for when a player successfully blocked the lines they are both pointless and meaningless

I don't have any instruction or order to stay away from my ex who actually was incredibly controlling and manipulative and a compulsive liar

True story Because of how competitive her family were, when she dropped out of uni, she lied to me, my friends, all her friends and her entire family pretending she was sill going for TWO and a half years and when she started getting gifts ahead of her graduation, her solution was to pretend to have attempted to commit suicide to get the sympathy vote of everyone and avoid the flack she was due

[Steveo]

As I said it’s like conversing with an 11 year old. Everyone knows he knows very little except the boy. The boy knows everything in his own mind and even when shown that he is wrong - he simply keeps going - believing that to admit he is wrong is a terrible thing.

It matters little what proof is provided - be it statistical data or video evidence. 19 is right even though he is wrong.

it’s a nice cosy place to be, but sadly as adults we have a duty to leave these childlike fantasies behind us… At least that is the accepted wisdom.

[Nineteenx]

That's rich coming from you Steveo, answer the question from the other thread

If Fabinho simply stays with his man Casemiro, given there's a 2v1 in our favour v their other player already, do Real score?

It's a simple enough question, I posted further examples of him doing the same thing and how it leads to opposition chances and goals, the alleged video evidence you provided show if he stays with Casemiro, as he should, all day long in that situation, Real don't score

So, in a pressing and counter pressing game, in which our players press players and force them into areas we want them to go into enabling our other players to easily disposess them on many occasions, and press players collectively, simultaneously and deliberately blocking lines to leave them as very limited area they can release the ball through, the press making it easy to read and easy to intercept passes played through areas we force the opposition to, you don't understand or appreciate the absolute importance of the players doing the pressing and counter pressing?

You don't even understand that, as per your video evidence, Thiago running back from the wrong side of players several times to get a foot in, putting up his number of tackles, are tackles he's only having to make because he's getting caught out of position in the press and counter press? And your video evidence only shows the times he successfully gets a foot in, there are more times he doesn't that lead to chances, what was the stats Kev posted about how many chances we've given up?

Get back to school child, or, get into the 2020's and stop viewing the game in outdated stereotypes, the playmaker figure you wet your pants over is being ditched by almost all serious clubs stop living in the past

[Steveo]

The question is completely bogus. Football happens in real-time. This is the problem with the TV pundits and their over analysis - the rewinds and slow motion and amateur hacks. You can single out multiple players at fault for lost goals if you want to. So easy.

What happens if Jordan Henderson actually gets involved? How about instead of marking grass and trotting - he actually comprehends what is unfolding and positions himself to deal with someone - anyone in fact - who is free as a bird behind him? What happens if Alisson saves? What happens if Modric isn’t in the zone? Vinicius doesn’t read the play… On and on.

What happened to create the goal in the final was purely about the technique and guile put down on our left flank by serial winners. The fact that our right flank just couldn’t read/comprehend it OR deal with it - is another story.

The ability on the ball of 4 Real Players in that increasingly confined space is what opens us up. Speed of pass - vision - ball control and touch, The overload on one side is created by the clever quick training ground passing. It isn’t something our lads face often - if ever in the Premier league. We got suckered.

Not something any midfield Jurgen has had, bar a few incidents when Gini and Shaq were operating in tighter spaces together. Thiago and Fab have come close to that in tandem but still it’s only 2 players. It’s interplay. it isn’t closing down or pressing to create the chance. It’s called quality football. It’s what the best teams can produce in a high pressure game. Something we have consistently failed to do (or didn’t need to do v Spurs) in these finals over all 7 years under Klopp.

That is not to criticise Klopp (though I have always said he had a blind spot in midfield) or his approach - but simply to highlight the fact that we have never had the players to put that game on the pitch.

Go back and watch.

And to bring it back to topic… Elliott - as mentioned - not pulling up trees in what looks to be a slightly alien position (doesn’t look a mid) is the type of player who CAN play that football. Strangely for an Englishmen, he seems to have that touch and control. At least he looks to play that game. He isn’t close to Shaqiri levels yet and doesn’t have that strike of a ball but he is young and this is a poor shadow of the team that older and wiser players had the benefit of playing in.

[dicko1969]

If it doesn't matter in 5 years.
It doesn't matter.

In less than 3 years neither Fabinho Henderson Thiago will be at Liverpool.

So all arguments will be transferred elsewhere.

[Daffydd]

If it doesn't matter in 5 years.
It doesn't matter.

In less than 3 years neither Fabinho Henderson Thiago will be at Liverpool.

So all arguments will be transferred elsewhere.

But Elliott will be the new captain fantastic

[Nineteenx]

The question is completely bogus.

No it isn't, answer the question instead of hiding from it

If Fabinho stays with his man Casemiro, do Real score there?

Football is played in real time, in real time, I see Fab doing these things as he does them, decision making and a midfielder's/No6's understanding through experience are key requirements in his role, any top DM in those situations knows when he has to stay with his man, when we have a 2v1 and he doesn't need to try and get involved and when he can

It is a glaring error from Fab and one he makes far too frequently to ever be considered World class, because world class DM's don't make those errors