Your team v Fulham

[Nineteenx]

We'll always be a far better side without Elliott's presence in the side, Elliott made precious little contribution to how we started the game today, the stats showed that very clearly, 2 of the times he was dispossessed were in the opening 5-10 minutes

We're a much better side without him, as has been proved by our quite drastic improvement in his absence

[Steveo]

Regardless of personal opinion.

Here are some hard facts.

Elliot played in every game of our 4 win streak starting in November. A run we have only just managed to match for the first time since. He played a part in us being 3:0 up yesterday and left the field on 63 minutes with us winning 3:1. Within 25 minutes of his departure we were drawing 3:3.

So that’s 5 of our 8 wins over those games. AND but for a fortuitous pass from Moura to Jota - would have been 5 in 7!

I am not a huge fan of him in our midfield, I don’t believe he is even a true midfielder, but the facts are the facts in this semi disaster of a season. And they stand no matter what spin anyone wishes to put on things.

[miller0863]

I have to disagree with associating one player with a team’s results. We won the Champions League with Djimi Traore at LB.

Gerrard’s Liverpool never won the League, Henderson’s did … there are literally thousands of examples over the last 20 or 30 years.

[Steveo]

I have to disagree with associating one player with a team’s results. We won the Champions League with Djimi Traore at LB.

Gerrard’s Liverpool never won the League, Henderson’s did … there are literally thousands of examples over the last 20 or 30 years.

Liverpool win the title and the CL without Hendo.. Anyone who knows this game - knows that. Part of the team yes - but rather Incidental for a captain imo. We win double with Gerrard instead of Hendo. Argue with that

Hendo's Liverpool minus Gerrard were shocking. In fact Hendo really didn't ever have any influence on our game. The manager twice tried to make him a squad player. Credit the captain for him failing in that regard, but it is only due to poor recruitment. Emre Can stays - Hendo goes. Klopp wanted Can. Kieta performs Hendo is benched. Klopp wanted Naby.

Hendo has been a great servant but then so was Carra. 2 players we could easily have done just as well or better without.

It took a world beating front line, the worlds best CB and one of the worlds top keepers to get us to the top. We managed 1 major title in each of those 2 successful seasons. Last season we almost managed to double it!

Put a Gerrard in any of those sides and you'd have to think we win like a Real or a Barcelona in their pomp

[Insidious]

there are literally thousands of examples over the last 20 or 30 years.

Maldini not winning the World Cup stands out. Magnificent player. Wish we could go back in time and see the 2002 World Cup officiated properly in an alternate Universe. Disgrace of a Tournament.

Not necessarily saying Italy would have won it for the record.

[miller0863]

You are turning it round and arguing with yourself.
So our captain wasn’t instrumental in us winning a league title but you quote results to prove that Elliott is worth a start.

Sorry, not for me.

[miller0863]

@sid, the two biggest ones for me is Clarence Seedorf being the only player to have won the Champions League with three different clubs. He wouldn’t be in anyone’s Champions League all time 11, or even the squad to be fair.
The other is Gerrard never winning a league title, even playing with Torres, Suarez, Alonso etc etc.

[Insidious]

@sid, the two biggest ones for me is Clarence Seedorf being the only player to have won the Champions League with three different clubs. He wouldn’t be in anyone’s Champions League all time 11, or even the squad to be fair.
The other is Gerrard never winning a league title, even playing with Torres, Suarez, Alonso etc etc.

Great shouts.

Signori and Di Natale were both brilliant players who won NO trophies. Gerrard got to win with us at least - just the way it falls sometimes.

Signori is one of those practically forgotten football players but he was great.

[Nineteenx]

I have to disagree with associating one player with a team’s results. We won the Champions League with Djimi Traore at LB.

Gerrard’s Liverpool never won the League, Henderson’s did … there are literally thousands of examples over the last 20 or 30 years.

Thank you Miller, i apologize to everyone for some of the protracted arguments here between Steveo and I, they are mostly down to Steveo's insistence on continually attempting to do what you have just entirely correctly called him out for

And that he wants and expects to have it both ways, it's all about and solely down to whoever he's trying to champion in games we have won and who lse played and made the actual telling contributions has nothing to do with it, nor the strength of the opposition or their form but when we lose or draw with his player all such factors suddenly count

So annoying, i can't help but liken him to a child or working class Daily Mail reading Tory voter who puts their fingers in both ears and starts making inane noises to block out reasoned well rounded and accurate debate that doesn't fit what they want to believe

[miller0863]

I acknowledge on rare occasions one player can be the missing link, we all rue the day Cantona went to Utd but they are rare and in Utd’s case the other 10 were pretty good as well.