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Thread: Champions League and Premier League winning 433 versus the 343 tweak box midfield

  1. #1
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    Champions League and Premier League winning 433 versus the 343 tweak box midfield

    I still think the title winning 433 is the superior system using the right players and all players in it correctly, good to have to option to play the tweak or apply it at stages of some games, but it has floors and for me isn't an improved way of playing because we sacrifice too much of what we got from Trent and Robbo as wide attacking full backs and we overcrowd the midfield and crowd ourselves out, while pushing Mo out wide too far away from goal and leaving our right flank as a point the opposition can easily use to try and make transitions or release players for counters, yes Konate can defend brilliantly one v one, but that it is as easy to use our right flank for those purposes as Villa made it look is a considerable flaw

    I haven't enjoyed the ditching of the LCM controller role and trying to replace that with an attacking LCM operating predominantly as a No10 or our pushing RCM up so high throughout games also operating as a No10, I think we crowd ourselves out, less is more for me, full backs arriving from deeper in time and space to be found with switches or long diagonals, or to quickly support our forwards being found by them is an incredible potent weapon

    LCM controller or LCM or RCM controller, with both equally adept at attacking or defending and operating frequently on a one stays one goes basis as full backs and either midfielder in a double pivot classicly used to, so both can arrive in space at points in attack giving the forwards more room for their movement and runs works better for me

    it's no coincidence both our huge wins this season came in a 433 with a LCM controller in place, the lopsided nature of it in itself disrupts opposition sides because most opposition managers set out to play very symmetrically, it naturally creates angles and movement that disrupt that

    Gakpo's opening goal v the filthy in the 7-0 was only possible because we were playing with the LCM controller, were we playing with the tweak, the space wouldn't have been there for him to use and make the movements he did for or for Nunez to make the run inside to open the space up for him, trying to push more players into attacking areas isn't the best policy for me

    I hope we recruit for the title winning 433 first and foremost and don't use our budget solely recruiting for the tweak, the title winning 433 wasn't found out or stopped, we played it highly successfully last season, we just broke it this season with the attempts to install a designated playmaker and playing a rookie at RCM who clearly is unsuited to the role and ditching the LCM controller role

    2 No10's. with 3 forwards doesn't really play to all those players strengths for me, simply because it is too crowded, even if they are all excellent top class technicians, which they aren't
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  2. #2
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    The congestion through number of your own and opposition players in an area also massively reduces you possibility of scoring after winning the ball back high in the 343 box midfield tweak and of scoring from a cross from a recycled ball from a block or clearance because neither full back is high and wide

    This goes back to the debate berween CCTV and i about stats and a greater number of counter presses not signifying we had counter pressed better, the bar for accurately measuring that would have to include goals, assists or shots on target over the number of counter presses as the objective of it is to quickly win the ball back in order to score or create a chance to when the opposition isn't set/is out of position. If you're winning it back higher-up more but scoring less and creating fewer chances from doing so, it's obviously not better
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  3. #3
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    Why have you never mentioned any of this before ?

  4. #4
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    It's because the voices in his head.only mentioned it last night
    Cleaning up the Scots since the 13th century

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by justme View Post
    It's because the voices in his head.only mentioned it last night
    Erm, JustMe, 'Ian's 'attempting' to be funny

    I have mentioned it before in parts or sporadically a few times, but never laid it out like this to try and include most of the pros and cons involved while keeping it as short as possible, i could easily do 20 pages on it
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    Erm, JustMe, 'Ian's 'attempting' to be funny
    How fucking dare you, "attempting " !!!

  7. #7
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    Gini was routinely our most advanced midfielder of the 3, the controlling role was done by Hendo .... until he got notions.

    Klopps first season was 4231, he switched up to suit what he had available.

    Sadly this year he left it far too long, before switching it up.

    15/16 might be a worse season on paper, or even the following season.

    But this year, has been the toughest watch for me as a result largely of Klopps rigidity.

    Even with Steveos 200 games out injured excuse/consideration, it doesn't excuse Klopp from criticism, failing to adapt and try and address issues that have been with the side for a while.

    I'm looking at Klopp similalry to 15/16 now, a bit excited acknowledging a fair bit needs to be done, first teams dead, long live the team.

  8. #8
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    The irony of this season, and your post, as I sees it... is that Klopp by rigidly sticking with a 433 setup, has shafted us in reality.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianlfc View Post
    How fucking dare you, "attempting " !!!
    Absobleedinexactly… attempting??

    There was obviously no effort behind that whatsoever

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTV View Post
    The irony of this season, and your post, as I sees it... is that Klopp by rigidly sticking with a 433 setup, has shafted us in reality.
    But he didn't stick to it, he tried to instill a midfield playmaker and push both LCM and RCM forward

    He played the LCM controller in 2 games, we won those games 9-0 and 7-0

    Gini wasn't routinely our furthest forward mid at all, he drove the ball forward sometimes, he sprang forward to get a good counter pressing position and one he could potentially get involved in the attack from in support of Mane and Robbo on others

    Our right side has almost always ben the side we employed our attacking mid of the 3 Ketia, Shaqiri, Oxlade, Lallana, Minamino, it usually only 'really' worked if Hendo played at No6 though
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

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