Henderson gone

[Insidious]

For heavens sake - how many human rights abuses take place in the US or this nation? Every day? Do you know? Have you seen it on the telly? Read about it on your favourite silicon valley owned and controlled Social media outlet or online "source of news"..?

Plenty I am sure. The World is a murky place. Don't think it de-merits critique of what occurs in Saudi Arabia.

You posted an online source of news. How do you know yours is "fine" compared to others? I find that process of weedling out the wheat from the chaff with news outlets absolutely exhausting. I do it to the best of my ability for a short time, then I tend to distance myself from the process for the preservation of what remains of my sanity. Anyone can say anything with YouTube, blogs or indeed well-funded outlets and almost everything needs cross-examined on a daily basis. If that isn't my absolute pressing priority with what I do with the incredibly limited time I have on this World, so what? I'm certainly gaining nothing from this discussion - more fool me.

Sid your entire framing is skewed wickedly one way

Many viewpoints on this forum are - from several users.

Who is right and who is wrong? Who gets to judge? Are we in the west, the direct beneficiaries of the rape and pillage of the global south the people with the right to make a stand against the cultural differences between us WHILE staying silent on the ongoing crimes committed in our name?

Individuals have to form moral codes of conduct as best they can - "the West" is too big a concept, as is Saudi Arabia - there are good and evil people in every corner of the World. I don't especially feel a need to comment on ongoing Western crimes on here as others who are better-informed on the subject already do so. I certainly don't think of myself as "Western" though I am of course a product of my environment. All I can do is prioritise the causes that matter to me most and address them in what little way I can - in my case that is mainly conservation and animal-welfare related, whereas others can (and do) care passionately about human affairs - credit to them.

Sid, you are totally ignorant on this topic.

So you keep telling me. I don't feel it adds weight to your argument, nor benefits you, nor anyone else.

I don't want to get you on my side on this topic at all.

Then why even engage at all? To "win an argument" with someone you have never met? To shut down what I am saying? To empower yourself by calling someone else brainwashed/ignorant? To flex intellectual muscles? What was there to gain from the discussion? "Hey everyone, let's all point at the person we disagree with?" - was it as simple as that? I'd love to know, though I'm sure there will be a convenient "if you need that explained to you then there's no point" framing device for any answer

You are completely brainwashed

So you keep telling me. I don't feel it adds weight to your argument, nor benefits you, nor anyone else.. Shit, say it often enough and you may very well Brainwash me into believing it. I am clearly so easily led astray

You always brush aside the murder of millions while hyping up news delivered to you by the very same sources responsible.

It is such a relief to know that you are such an authority and source of knowledge on what I watch in my spare time to know which News programs I do and don't pay heed to, to inform any opinions I have. Really is. I'd forget otherwise.

Must I say "don't forget about Roosevelt and the Suez Canal in 1945" each time I critique what's happening? Or Standard Oil Company's 1932 agreement and how it's all America's fault?

To be fair I can't abide what-aboutism - Northern Ireland politics has been littered with it for years. Every time a Loyalist act is condemned there's always someone right there to say "ah but what about Sinn Fein?" or whatever to direct a totally different narrative rather than be able to isolate an instance or activity and comment on that. But I don't particularly feel the need to remind everyone that I wish it hadn't been the case that America was essentially built off the back of colonialism, racist slavery and inequality in labour. I can be bitterly disappointed in the social divide, racial unrest, injustices, capital interest groups and so on - need I bring them up every time we talk about Saudi Arabia? Does my acknowledging the murky depths of American society's founding pillars improve anything? I don't see that it does.

You're handpicking certain events to counter claim against blanket human atrocities committed by the so called 'good guys', Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, America (twin towers, yes), and countless others, too many to mention...
There's not a dollar, pound, penny nor cent on this planet that's not tainted by blood...

Of course there have been a lot of atrocities throughout World history - am I to reference them all every single time I critique Saudi Arabia? I don't understand what people want from me there.

I agree with the emboldened point, but what am I to do, other than live by a general "try not to be a dick" principle and give what I can of myself to causes I feel are decent - if I dwelt on every penny spent and where it had come from to the extent that the worst parts of my Brain are certainly capable of, I would likely eventually turn to suicide - though I have a to live for and see little point in pursuing that avenue.

[Insidious]

If he's a decent human being he'd let his kids and grandkids find their own way in life, all this securing a future is making the working classes soft!

Come on Daffy. He would have stood to earn about £15,000,000 if he stuck with us. That's enough to give 25 people £50,000 each (good mortgage deposit) and still have £2,500,000 left for himself, whilst STILL having countless opportunities ahead of him to make more via investment or punditry work or whatever else - nobody is suggesting that it's indecent or improper to give your family a leg-up, fair play to anyone doing so, but how much do they need that his current wages couldn't afford?

A lot of people I know are struggling to buy houses priced at £100,000 or so here never mind getting a "nice" House for £200,000 or so (I am not too familiar with House prices in England, can only comment on where I am, appreciate it's more over there) and Jordan could buy a house at the £100,000 mark outright having kicked a ball and hit the Gym for 4 days - 96 hours - seriously, how much do they need?

[Steveo]

Plenty I am sure. The World is a murky place. Don't think it de-merits critique of what occurs in Saudi Arabia.

You posted an online source of news. How do you know yours is "fine" compared to others? I find that process of weedling out the wheat from the chaff with news outlets absolutely exhausting. I do it to the best of my ability for a short time, then I tend to distance myself from the process for the preservation of what remains of my sanity. Anyone can say anything with YouTube, blogs or indeed well-funded outlets and almost everything needs cross-examined on a daily basis. If that isn't my absolute pressing priority with what I do with the incredibly limited time I have on this World, so what? I'm certainly gaining nothing from this discussion - more fool me.

Here you go again Sid. Whenever the wolf is exposed all you seem to do is blame the world..

Sorry to say it but you keep revealing more and more brainwash - more and more cultural racism and more and more general ignorance.

There is no weeding out the "wheat from the chaff" - Mainstream western sources are ALL compromised. If you aren't aware of that then you are living in a very nice place... BUT one totally removed from reality.

The overwhelming majority of ALL media consumed in the west is owned by a few individuals who represent the interests of the same monster. The BBC itself refuses to even talk about the Nordstream pipeline... Or the Damn recently busted.. All done via NATO intelligence and covered up or simply ignored accordingly. The single largest deliberated act of destruction to the environment... SILENCE...

Individuals have to form moral codes of conduct as best they can - "the West" is too big a concept, as is Saudi Arabia - there are good and evil people in every corner of the World. I don't especially feel a need to comment on ongoing Western crimes on here as others who are better-informed on the subject already do so. I certainly don't think of myself as "Western" though I am of course a product of my environment. All I can do is prioritise the causes that matter to me most and address them in what little way I can - in my case that is mainly conservation and animal-welfare related, whereas others can (and do) care passionately about human affairs - credit to them.

WRONG.


The west is a minority global in terms BUT with the greatest combined wealth. Sitting under the might of the US military industrial complex.. Remember that still .. the west is a minority.. This minority including ALL 3 former AXIS powers - one comprehensively defeated (8 out of 10 Wehrmacht forces) by the Soviet Union (mainly Russians) at the cost of 27,000,000 - the other finished off by an Atomic bomb despite that nation having all but surrendered - and the 3rd deciding to switch sides mid conflict.. Pasta Pasta Mamma

So how is this minority portrayed in the media.... Let's look at the latest BS as brought to us all as western subjects. Western means (defacto US subjugated). We can blow up your infrastructure (Gernamy) and you STILL have go along with us because your economy is completely tied to ours and we have 50 military bases on your soil...!

Think about it seriously Sid. Yet the BBC openly states again and again that the "world stands with Ukraine". It is a flat out lie. The world is overwhelmingly in favour of an end to the war (unlike the US/NATO) and has made it clear that they are much more WITH Russia and AGAINST NATO when pushed. They understand what colonialism looks like.

This is just the latest hoodwink.. They are too numerous and too well staged to even begin to dissect. The same groups that make the war machine - own the film and TV production - own the news corporation AND the are the largest shareholders in the digital space. It is all one machine.

The nation you decry was itself the product of colonialism. One to benefit first Britain and laterally the US. The nation with 750 military bases the encircle the globe.

I am no master of wisdom on this - but compared to you - I am a sage. You clearly know next to nothing and it is THIS that grates most. You keep making that same cry of foul play over and over again and it NEVER ever gets targeted at the worst criminal of them all!! Go and learn a little about the Treaty of Darin.. Please - a modicum of history will help you.

Ultimately you have been told that you as a westerner are in the right. Your values are the ones that count and that we here in west.. just so happen to be the most civilised.. regardless of the millions of civilians we have killed... it matters not one jot... we wear the rainbow flag.. ! It's Baloney...!

So you keep telling me. I don't feel it adds weight to your argument, nor benefits you, nor anyone else.



Then why even engage at all? To "win an argument" with someone you have never met? To shut down what I am saying? To empower yourself by calling someone else brainwashed/ignorant? To flex intellectual muscles? What was there to gain from the discussion? "Hey everyone, let's all point at the person we disagree with?" - was it as simple as that? I'd love to know, though I'm sure there will be a convenient "if you need that explained to you then there's no point" framing device for any answer



So you keep telling me. I don't feel it adds weight to your argument, nor benefits you, nor anyone else.. Shit, say it often enough and you may very well Brainwash me into believing it. I am clearly so easily led astray



It is such a relief to know that you are such an authority and source of knowledge on what I watch in my spare time to know which News programs I do and don't pay heed to, to inform any opinions I have. Really is. I'd forget otherwise.

Must I say "don't forget about Roosevelt and the Suez Canal in 1945" each time I critique what's happening? Or Standard Oil Company's 1932 agreement and how it's all America's fault?

To be fair I can't abide what-aboutism - Northern Ireland politics has been littered with it for years. Every time a Loyalist act is condemned there's always someone right there to say "ah but what about Sinn Fein?" or whatever to direct a totally different narrative rather than be able to isolate an instance or activity and comment on that. But I don't particularly feel the need to remind everyone that I wish it hadn't been the case that America was essentially built off the back of colonialism, racist slavery and inequality in labour. I can be bitterly disappointed in the social divide, racial unrest, injustices, capital interest groups and so on - need I bring them up every time we talk about Saudi Arabia? Does my acknowledging the murky depths of American society's founding pillars improve anything? I don't see that it does.



Of course there have been a lot of atrocities throughout World history - am I to reference them all every single time I critique Saudi Arabia? I don't understand what people want from me there.

I agree with the emboldened point, but what am I to do, other than live by a general "try not to be a dick" principle and give what I can of myself to causes I feel are decent - if I dwelt on every penny spent and where it had come from to the extent that the worst parts of my Brain are certainly capable of, I would likely eventually turn to suicide - though I have a to live for and see little point in pursuing that avenue.

And here it is again... Atrocities around the globe... Was it the Saudis that armed military Junt'as across Latin America? Was it the Saudis that killed 2,000,000 Iraqis? or the hundreds of thousands of Afghans? How about the Libyans? Or the Syrians? Saudi Arabia too? Where was the condemnation OF Saudi in their sickening war with Yemen? Mate you are running out of ammo. Lies and half truth spun in a never ending game of robbery. Double standards abound nd these same people wear the rainbow flag...


Just remember - you need to know a little more about that which you are speaking about. YOu really don't know very much on this topic.

Sorry if it hurts you to hear it - but it is a fact.

[Daffydd]

Come on Daffy. He would have stood to earn about £15,000,000 if he stuck with us. That's enough to give 25 people £50,000 each (good mortgage deposit) and still have £2,500,000 left for himself, whilst STILL having countless opportunities ahead of him to make more via investment or punditry work or whatever else - nobody is suggesting that it's indecent or improper to give your family a leg-up, fair play to anyone doing so, but how much do they need that his current wages couldn't afford?

A lot of people I know are struggling to buy houses priced at £100,000 or so here never mind getting a "nice" House for £200,000 or so (I am not too familiar with House prices in England, can only comment on where I am, appreciate it's more over there) and Jordan could buy a house at the £100,000 mark outright having kicked a ball and hit the Gym for 4 days - 96 hours - seriously, how much do they need?

I agree with you Sid. My response was to Justin who I presumed was being equally tongue in cheek.

Lovely atmosphere on here at the moment. I'm sure we'll all feel better when we spunk some millions.

[Insidious]

Here you go again Sid. Whenever the wolf is exposed all you seem to do is blame the world..

I said the World is a murky place when you asked about human rights atrocities in the US and this nation. I said plenty - but please, carry on.

Sorry to say it

A sure sign that you aren't, but keep going...

but you keep revealing more and more brainwash - more and more cultural racism and more and more general ignorance.

Mate, I think the record on the player is broken - there's that "Brainwash" word again.

"More and more" cultural racism indeed - if you are going to call me a racist I can simply not engage Steveo. Absolute fucking joke of a way to hold a discussion and you should consider yourself very privileged if I continue to respond to you on here should you keep it up. The "Wolf" is exposed indeed - catch yourself on. If you knew a thing about me or my friend group or the ethnic and religious diversity of people I have dated, befriended, attended weddings/funerals of and still were throwing that at me you'd be ashamed of yourself.

There is no weeding out the "wheat from the chaff" - Mainstream western sources are ALL compromised. If you aren't aware of that then you are living in a very nice place... BUT one totally removed from reality.

The overwhelming majority of ALL media consumed in the west is owned by a few individuals who represent the interests of the same monster. The BBC itself refuses to even talk about the Nordstream pipeline... Or the Damn recently busted.. All done via NATO intelligence and covered up or simply ignored accordingly. The single largest deliberated act of destruction to the environment... SILENCE...

I asked you about the online source of news you posted and about how you know yours is "fine" and described the difficulties of what can be trusted. A helpful link from you or guidance in the right direction of sources you trust and why? Nah - just berate the news you assume I watch and say I'm removed from reality. All destruction, no creation - it's exactly the sort of debate/discussion style we would be subjected to at length when you would engage with users like Balinkay - why not help a brother out and tell us about how you managed to cross-examine enough news outlets, vloggers etc to find something you can trust? More productive than slinging out that the insults, wouldn't you say?

WRONG.


The west is a minority global in terms BUT with the greatest combined wealth. Sitting under the might of the US military industrial complex.. Remember that still .. the west is a minority.. This minority including ALL 3 former AXIS powers - one comprehensively defeated (8 out of 10 Wehrmacht forces) by the Soviet Union (mainly Russians) at the cost of 27,000,000 - the other finished off by an Atomic bomb despite that nation having all but surrendered - and the 3rd deciding to switch sides mid conflict.. Pasta Pasta Mamma

This was in response to me talking about the West "as a concept" (a detail you clearly didn't pick up on) which you can check on my previous post - I don't constantly edit mine you see - so it will remain the same. Unlike that of some users.

I am no master of wisdom on this - but compared to you - I am a sage. You clearly know next to nothing and it is THIS that grates most.

Congratulations on knowing more than someone who knows next to nothing.

You keep making that same cry of foul play over and over again and it NEVER ever gets targeted at the worst criminal of them all!!

How very dare I have a distaste for public beheadings in a country with a warped justice system and find distaste in Sports-washing - the absolute nerve of me, phwoar!

I spoke on hating "What-about-ism" and your response was -

And here it is again... Atrocities around the globe... Was it the Saudis that armed military Junt'as across Latin America? Was it the Saudis that killed 2,000,000 Iraqis? or the hundreds of thousands of Afghans? How about the Libyans? Or the Syrians? Saudi Arabia too? Where was the condemnation OF Saudi in their sickening war with Yemen?

- rather than actually directly address anything I asked. Just shoot our more questions as responses. Rinse, repeat. This is how you hold discussions with everyone on here and why some of them choose to stop engaging, or indeed have left the forum altogether.

really don't know very much on this topic.

Well, that would make sense. All the Brain-washing you see.

Sorry if it hurts you to hear it - but it is a fact.

Don't need an apology so insincere Steveo and I would have to care more about your personal opinion of me for it to hurt honestly. If someone doesn't have my personal phone number they don't know me well enough to make any real judgement on my qualities (and lack of in some areas) as a human being - so you needn't concern yourself. I'm glad your opinions on matters are facts though - that will be really handy as a point of reference going forward.

[Insidious]

I agree with you Sid. My response was to Justin who I presumed was being equally tongue in cheek.

Lovely atmosphere on here at the moment. I'm sure we'll all feel better when we spunk some millions.

Sincerest apologies mate. I completely didn't pick up on that at all and can say (I'm obviously feeling reactionary today!) that I had taken that as a bit of a dig at what I had said regarding Henderson / amount of money.

Hope there will be no hard feelings on the issue.

[Daffydd]

Sincerest apologies mate. I completely didn't pick up on that at all and can say (I'm obviously feeling reactionary today!) that I had taken that as a bit of a dig at what I had said regarding Henderson / amount of money.

Hope there will be no hard feelings on the issue.

No worries at all Sid. Cheers

[Steveo]

And people wonder why we are on the brink of WW3..



And this is so mild and utterly diluted. I guess until we see similar responses to players going across the pond in search of a retirement fund, we can stop highlighting the hypocrisy displayed by so many minions of Western - which is actually US - hegemony.


It is time to get off those high horses. get down in the muck and the filth with the rest of us. Millions are dying and millions more are starving to propagate this sham.

[justincredible]

@Sid

Not having a pop at you, but....
Please explain to me the difference in the (average) 130 public executions in Saudi Arabia, and (average) 750 public executions on the streets of England and Wales each year?
We know that quite a lot of people that are homeless, it's due to addiction, mental illness, etc... but, a huge number are there because of bad luck and circumstances and that unfortunately, includes quite a number of war torn veterans. Circumstances that are set up by our beloved (puppet) governments belive it or not....
Puplic executions, but with very different levels of humanitarian levels of cruelty.
I know I'd prefer the ones offered on the sandy streets of Riyadh, Jeddah or Dammam, that's for sure!

Oh, and on the subject of the Rainbow thieves....
Is the whole Islamic world to be condemned, or any nation which doesn't 'celebrate' and dance to the West's and Isreal's of Pride and degeneracy, because (((we))) say so?

"HE WHO UNDERSTANDS AND HATES POLITICS. UNDERSTANDS HISTORY!"

[justincredible]

And people wonder why we are on the brink of WW3..



And this is so mild and utterly diluted. I guess until we see similar responses to players going across the pond in search of a retirement fund, we can stop highlighting the hypocrisy displayed by so many minions of Western - which is actually US - hegemony.


It is time to get off those high horses. get down in the muck and the filth with the rest of us. Millions are dying and millions more are starving to propagate this sham.

Steveo (and I know you know this), but for anyone else who mightn't know....
WE ARE IN WWIII.....