Simulation and the current referees failure to see it…

[BOBPAISLEYFAN]

Except English clubs won more European Cups in the 70s than any other nation. So what was the price they paid? I’m really not following the logic here.

If you think players dive too much, then blame the players. Stop calling it simulation, it’s cheating and the people responsible are the cheats. Not those who are trying to officiate. What a bizarre take.

Unfortunately for you, LFC Online already has its very own Victor Meldrew so that name is taken.

I don’t know how old you are, but I witnessed many a match in Europe against foreign opposition being spoilt by our European counterparts feigning injury, contact etc etc, thats were I believe the current tendency of players to simulate contact / dive etc all began, that was my point.

With regards what British teams achieved in Europe, this was all achieved despite this despicable behaviour, and as a result makes it all the more special. Also it musn’t be forgotten our achievements were made possible by some amazing home grown managers, which your right allowed us to dominate Europe throughout the 70’s

With regards my bizarre take, put it another way, if you don't discipline your kids when they are naughty, guess what happens, they all become naughty…so maybe it’s not a bizarre take after all…

[JockStrap]

I don’t know how old you are, but I witnessed many a match in Europe against foreign opposition being spoilt by our European counterparts feigning injury, contact etc etc, thats were I believe the current tendency of players to simulate contact / dive etc all began, that was my point.

With regards what British teams achieved in Europe, this was all achieved despite this despicable behaviour, and as a result makes it all the more special. Also it musn’t be forgotten our achievements were made possible by some amazing home grown managers, which your right allowed us to dominate Europe throughout the 70’s

Yes better teams won. Same as it ever was. The diving argument is just a distraction.

With regards my bizarre take, put it another way, if you don't discipline your kids when they are naughty, guess what happens, they all become naughty…so maybe it’s not a bizarre take after all…

We're not talking about kids. We're talking about fully grown adults making a conscious decision to cheat. Guess who's to blame for that?

[JockStrap]

The mental gymnastics being performed to prevent calling those who dive cheaters is quite something.

[BOBPAISLEYFAN]

The mental gymnastics being performed to prevent calling those who dive cheaters is quite something.

The mental gymnastics being performed to prevent calling those who dive cheaters is quite something.

Firstly, I have no problem calling people out who dive, as cheaters, but the narrative in the world of punditry always revolves around the word simulation…. despite them being one and the same thing, and so that is the word I have continued to refer to… no evidence of mental gymnastics going on here as far as I am concerned.

I will happily go on record and call a spade a spade if required, we are at the end of the day just arguing over the use of a particular word when in my defence I believe they are one and the same thing, cheating is simulation and simulation is cheating.

Just for the record the definition of simulation is as follows :

the action of pretending; deception. "clever simulation that's good enough to trick you" ergo Cheat.

In my defence, in my original post I did write the following :

“ I am afraid I am old school, and I only want to win, or my team to win on merit, so this kind of behaviour absolutely appals me…”

Now you can place the word simulation or cheating in place of the word behaviour and the message would be imho, exactly the same…

Finally, I know we are dealing with adults and not kids, but the argument is exactly the same regardless the analogy…

Listen, we both know that in an ideal world, people wouldn't lie, they wouldn't steal, they wouldn't have affairs, they wouldn't bully, they wouldn't commit heinous crimes… unfortunately we do not live in an ideal World.

Simply put, without enforcement of the law, be it on the pitch by the Ref, or in society in general by the Authorities, chaos and anarchy will rule.

My bottom line is I hate cheats, hence my original post, whether they play for LFC or another team, but imho Referees lack of awareness and lack of game sense are making this whole situation worse and not better by ignoring this behaviour by not punishing it accordingly.

I guess we will never completely agree on this one, no dramas hey ho…fingers crossed tonight is a good one and we are all smiling at the end of it..

[JockStrap]

Firstly, I have no problem calling people out who dive, as cheaters, but the narrative in the world of punditry always revolves around the word simulation…. despite them being one and the same thing, and so that is the word I have continued to refer to… no evidence of mental gymnastics going on here as far as I am concerned.

I will happily go on record and call a spade a spade if required, we are at the end of the day just arguing over the use of a particular word when in my defence I believe they are one and the same thing, cheating is simulation and simulation is cheating.

Just for the record the definition of simulation is as follows :

the action of pretending; deception. "clever simulation that's good enough to trick you" ergo Cheat.

In my defence, in my original post I did write the following :

“ I am afraid I am old school, and I only want to win, or my team to win on merit, so this kind of behaviour absolutely appals me…”

Now you can place the word simulation or cheating in place of the word behaviour and the message would be imho, exactly the same…

Finally, I know we are dealing with adults and not kids, but the argument is exactly the same regardless the analogy…

Listen, we both know that in an ideal world, people wouldn't lie, they wouldn't steal, they wouldn't have affairs, they wouldn't bully, they wouldn't commit heinous crimes… unfortunately we do not live in an ideal World.

Simply put, without enforcement of the law, be it on the pitch by the Ref, or in society in general by the Authorities, chaos and anarchy will rule.

My bottom line is I hate cheats, hence my original post, whether they play for LFC or another team, but imho Referees lack of awareness and lack of game sense are making this whole situation worse and not better by ignoring this behaviour by not punishing it accordingly.

I guess we will never completely agree on this one, no dramas hey ho…fingers crossed tonight is a good one and we are all smiling at the end of it..

We agree on all of that post. Where we disagree is how to apportion blame. The players are to blame for diving, plain and simple. To take an anology, what you're doing is blaming the shopkeeper because kids are stealing in his shop. The thieves are the kids, not the shopkeeper.

[Bredred]

Players who dive are cheats, players who pull shirts are cheats, players who perform professional fouls (for the team) are cheats, players who perform gentlemanly conduct (swearing and preventing play ) are cheats, players who time waste are cheats.
Who the fuck is on the pitch to oversee / prevent these things?

FA and refs are universally weak and scared to lose their nice little clique numbers.
Managers are also not free of criticism, but...............

It has gone on so long now and is accepted , only the world ruling bodies can try to eradicate the issues and guess what.....

They are fucking cheats.....

[CCTV]

It's not the refs fault that players are diving.

We agree on all of that post. Where we disagree is how to apportion blame. The players are to blame for diving, plain and simple. To take an anology, what you're doing is blaming the shopkeeper because kids are stealing in his shop. The thieves are the kids, not the shopkeeper.

Shirley de rufs oar a cheetun da rools fo da gaim by bean suft cants

[miller0863]

You could say that …

[JockStrap]

Players who dive are cheats, players who pull shirts are cheats, players who perform professional fouls (for the team) are cheats, players who perform gentlemanly conduct (swearing and preventing play ) are cheats, players who time waste are cheats.
Who the fuck is on the pitch to oversee / prevent these things?

FA and refs are universally weak and scared to lose their nice little clique numbers.
Managers are also not free of criticism, but...............

It has gone on so long now and is accepted , only the world ruling bodies can try to eradicate the issues and guess what.....

They are fucking cheats.....

The other things you mention apart from diving are generally dealt with and not something I have a problem with. If you take someone out to prevent a dangerous counter attack then you will likely get booked. Everyone understands that.

Diving is different. It's trying to seek an advantage by cheating. I suspect the whole argument around eradicating diving is pretty weak. Fans want to blame anyone and everyone but I've never seen home fans boo their own player for diving. Maybe that's a place to start if you think it's such a problem.

[redebreck]

Don't forget that it "appears" some officials come across as cheats, based on the inconsistency we see throughout the EPL.