Brexit thread 2 Electric Boogaloo

[redebreck]

Amongst other reasons, a large part of why Liverpool and Merseyside voted remain was/is because of the money they are/were getting from the EU.

Interesting. I live in Blaenau Gwent which is top of the league for deprivation in the UK.
Blaenau Gwent, also, is receiving money from the EU. The overwhelming majority of people in Blaenau Gwent voted out!
The EU money is, in people's opinions, not going to where it should go. There is a high level of unemployment in the area and this needed, and still needs, to be addressed before spending money on artistic designs that are easy on the eye and might make the area look good.

[RedNoodle]

Interesting. I live in Blaenau Gwent which is top of the league for deprivation in the UK.
Blaenau Gwent, also, is receiving money from the EU. The overwhelming majority of people in Blaenau Gwent voted out!
The EU money is, in people's opinions, not going to where it should go. There is a high level of unemployment in the area and this needed, and still needs, to be addressed before spending money on artistic designs that are easy on the eye and might make the area look good.

Unfortunately what you said is exactly how/why some have been hoodwinked into thinking they and the areas in which they live are benefiting from being in the EU. The UK is a net contributor to the EU, so any money we get back was our money to begin with.

Not only is that bad enough, but like you alluded to the money areas such as yours gets 'from the EU' has to be spent the way the EU decides it should. This means that money gets spent on things such as vanity projects, or 'perhaps' projects which in some way benefits the EU and it's cronies when it should be used to help the area as a whole, particularly those most in need of a helping hand.

[fiordearg]

A study was done on Liverpool and found that anti EU sentiment declined year on year with the ban on The Sun and higher readership of the more Europhile Mirror.
Seemingly English people in Wales voted heavily for Brexit resulting in a Welsh majority for same.

[redebreck]

My understanding of the EU, as it has been for a fair few years, is this.
Countries "contribute" a percentage of their GDP if they can afford it. The money goes into a central fund.
EU politicians and civil servants take their wages/salaries, not forgetting their expenses.
The people running the EU then decide where the remaining funds will be spent.
My belief is that a small number of countries are "propping up" the EU by contributing far more than they are taking out. I imagine those countries include Germany, France and the UK. Can't think of any others but they might exist. We know for example that Italy and Greece are in a mess financially and are in all likelihood being subsidised by the EU and the primary contributors.
One of my arguments for us leaving the EU is that our UK government should be in charge of distributing the funds that we are, instead, paying into the EU.
This is a very simplistic way of looking at it, I know. Are my assumptions correct or wildly wrong?

[Balinkay]

I think you're right in saying there's very few net contributors to the EU. DEUTSCHLAND being the greatest iirc. Think the UK is second and then it's France. Maybe the likes of Denmark and Sweden are too? No idea. There's fewer countries that pay more than they get back than vice-versa iirc.

[redebreck]

This country/island is becoming a laughing stock, thanks to our parliament's inability to deliver Brexit,
something the electorate voted for through a referendum.

[Nineteenx]

The issue is this, Cameron failed to do the necessary legal and impact assessments prior to giving ppl a vote

He asked a binary question

A binary question requires both answers to be quantified, pretty much set in stone, so he really had to do the assessments and work out what types of leave were possible under UK law to make the leave option as near to that as possible, but failed to

What Cameron in effect did was ask ppl if they wanted to go out for fish and chips or and Indian, a small majority chose Indian, but the menu was massive and a lot of them wanted different things, now Johnson is trying to serve most of those ppl with cold meals that aren't what they ordered and haven't been subject to food standards, including all those who wanted fish and chips

[redebreck]

The issue is this, Cameron failed to do the necessary legal and impact assessments prior to giving ppl a vote

He asked a binary question

A binary question requires both answers to be quantified, pretty much set in stone, so he really had to do the assessments and work out what types of leave were possible under UK law to make the leave option as near to that as possible, but failed to

What Cameron in effect did was ask ppl if they wanted to go out for fish and chips or and Indian, a small majority chose Indian, but the menu was massive and a lot of them wanted different things, now Johnson is trying to serve most of those ppl with cold meals that aren't what they ordered and haven't been subject to food standards, including all those who wanted fish and chips

..and some of those ppl want to re-order and/or try a different restaurant/take-away..

[Nineteenx]

Jesus wept, just watched Question Time from South Shields a lot up there have forgotten it was Tories who destroyed their industry in the first place, a hell of a lot appear to have fallen entirely for the Leave "Don't believe experts mantra" even when those experts are their employers and are THE biggest employers for the entire region and anyone with half a gram of common sense would see that 10% tariffs on car exports, plus massive disruption to the supply chain, plus administration costs of applying the tariffs would make Nissan's position in the NE completely untenable and lead to the loss of over 50k jobs with nothing to replace it and there were idiots talking about voting Tory/Brexit party and 'cleaning up' and leaving with no deal.

[Nineteenx]

Here's another Brexit thing that makes no sense whatsoever

A lot of people prattling on about reclaiming our sovereignty and making our own laws, first off it was our own parliament making our own laws that fucked the UK bugger all to do with the EU, second off, the laws we share with the EU or 90 odd % on workers rights (which we all need) food standards (that protect all our health) and the environment, these are all GOOD laws and necessary laws for our own benefit and for seamless trading with 27 other countries that are THE best and most suited market for what we produce

This 'taking back control' under Tory idea of it is to scrap all those shared laws that are invaluable protections for all of us and to our ability to trade with our biggest market in or out of the EU and wait for it align our laws with God awful US standards that the majority in the US desperately want to get away from and have ones more like ours that's not 'taking back control is it?

So rip up our workers rights, back to 10 days paid holidays, no maternity pay, no contracts of employment, bosses allowed to fire you on a whim with no protections for you, flogging off our NHS

And on top of all that there isn't a better trade deal than the one we have, we don't have to be full EU members, we could pay just for single market access, but a US trade deal isn't mutually beneficial, it's a one way street, they don't have a market for most of what we produce, it's a fucking shit idea