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Thread: Liverpool v Sheffield United (Match Thread)

  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyebo View Post
    That's right, his improvement on the pitch coincided with Keita walking through the door, before that happened, apart from 2013-14 season when most players upped their game, he was no more than average. Had Keita continued the form that prompted the club to buy him, i believe it was Henderson whose place was under most threat. I'm not saying he isn't a good player, just not as good as some of the people on here think he is. Unlike the front 3 and most of the back 5, he, along with the others in midfield, wouldn't be that hard to replace. I haven't seen enough of Thiago to comment either way.
    Fab & Keita were obviously bought to bolster/upgrade the midfield.
    Not much more that Hendo could have done than to improve to the point where his replacements haven't replaced him. At present he's in our best 11.

    For me he has a lot of qualities that might not register as high football puritan qualities, trekkers, yet those grafting qualities he has are underrated imo.
    Wouldnt swap him for Pjanic whose a very tidy footballer but a bit of a wuss who buckles under duress.

  2. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    Except for the odd slip? He wasn't world class at DM you don't get 2 opposition managers stating brazenly in their pre match interview they're going to set up to play off your DM in 2 consecutive games if they're world class in that position, Lambert and Pulis i think

    Stevie is and absolutely will always be a legend at LFC, if anything i loathe Rodgers for slightly tarnishing Stevie's legacy through playing him at DM trying to make himself appear clever

    The difference between this side and the sides Stevie played in is the incredible togetherness through the humility and respect and support of each other of all the players, there were a few Stevie and carra included for whom it was all about them, they never put a foot wrong and were always blaming and cunting the other players off, Owen was exactly the same too, even some of the scousers labelled Gerrard 'Stevie Me' that doesn't make a great captain or for a great team or dressing room. When Keane starting carrying on like that Whiskey face binned him off sharpish, for exactly those reasons
    Keane was sent packing for telling it like it was. He had a pop at players who were not carrying their weight and more interested in the celeb lifestyle than putting a shift in for Utd.
    As for Gerrard I'd hazard a guess that your opinion there is way wide of the mark. Theres yet to be one player publicly come out and back up what you're suggesting, same for Carragher too. Any player who's ever played alongside him would put your argument to bed well and truly. He pretty much carried the club for years, if that's not a captain I'm puzzled. You always have a pop at him for that role he played under Rogers (the one where we went on a 12 game winning streak and almost won the title with a pretty shite team) and bringing up the slip to score points is really shit from a Liverpool fan.

    We all love Hendo. Hes earned his place at the table but your constant over appraisal of him is borderline obsessive now. I've had his back as much as anyone on here since he came but theres a limit to how good you can say he is despite him being integral to our set up.
    Last edited by teesred; 29th October 2020 at 03:16 AM.

  3. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesred View Post
    Keane was sent packing for telling it like it was. He had a pop at players who were not carrying their weight and more interested in the celeb lifestyle than putting a shift in for Utd.
    As for Gerrard I'd hazard a guess that your opinion there is way wide of the mark. Theres yet to be one player publicly come out and back up what you're suggesting, same for Carragher too. Any player who's ever played alongside him would put your argument to bed well and truly. He pretty much carried the club for years, if that's not a captain I'm puzzled. You always have a pop at him for that role he played under Rogers (the one where we went on a 12 game winning streak and almost won the title with a pretty shite team) and bringing up the slip to score points is really shit from a Liverpool fan.

    We all love Hendo. Hes earned his place at the table but your constant over appraisal of him is borderline obsessive now. I've had his back as much as anyone on here since he came but theres a limit to how good you can say he is despite him being integral to our set up.
    I ntegral is entirely accurate i honestly, hand on heart could not name one other player in my 43 years watching the game whose absence alone or being shifted from their position led to the kind of drop off in performances we saw from that point on and displays like Watford and Villa
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  4. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    Let's rework an old cringeworthy chant for a player, Premier League, Champions League, World Club Champioship and European Super Cup winning captain, who is a phenomenal leader and inspiration to all the lads and without who it simply wouldn't have been possible who actually worthy of it

    Number 1 is Henderson Number 2 is Henderson Number 3 is Henderson and Number 4 is Henderson, we all dream of a team of Henderson's, a team of Henderson's a team of Henderson's....
    We wouldn't want a team of Hendersons, you don't win anything scoring a couple of goals a season.
    If you're not sure what to do with the ball, just put it in the net, and we'll talk about the other options later... Bob Paisley.

  5. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    I ntegral is entirely accurate i honestly, hand on heart could not name one other player in my 43 years watching the game whose absence alone or being shifted from their position led to the kind of drop off in performances we saw from that point on and displays like Watford and Villa
    Before you come out with such a bold statement, i suggest you wait and see how we get on without Van Dijk for the rest of the season. He, along with Alisson are the main reasons we have won the title.
    If you're not sure what to do with the ball, just put it in the net, and we'll talk about the other options later... Bob Paisley.

  6. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesred View Post

    We all love Hendo. Hes earned his place at the table but your constant over appraisal of him is borderline obsessive now. I've had his back as much as anyone on here since he came but theres a limit to how good you can say he is despite him being integral to our set up.
    If i said Hendo was currently THE best midfield general and all round midfielder in world football (which he isn't) i still wouldn't be anywhere close to over appraising his abilities to the simply ridiculous degree Carragher's were, doing enough to put players off and showing incredible bravery to throw yourself into last ditch blocks and tackles that were only necessary because your readiing of the game and positioning wasn't that great and being a Scouser who defected from the bitters simply doesn't cut it or warrant the completely ott appraisal he received here
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  7. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineteenx View Post
    If i said Hendo was currently THE best midfield general and all round midfielder in world football (which he isn't) i still wouldn't be anywhere close to over appraising his abilities to the simply ridiculous degree Carragher's were, doing enough to put players off and showing incredible bravery to throw yourself into last ditch blocks and tackles that were only necessary because your readiing of the game and positioning wasn't that great and being a Scouser who defected from the bitters simply doesn't cut it or warrant the completely ott appraisal he received here
    Player under numerous managers ( 2 of the best weve had in the last few decades) and is one of our leading appearance makers. Yet again your argument is muted.
    Using former legends to big up your frankly ridiculous over the top appraisal of Hendo is a bit sad in my book. You shouldn't have to or want to do that.

  8. #298
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    It's like his England fall out, or rather throwing his toys out of the pram, it actually pains me to say it as i loathe both and both were constantly over appraied also, and both got away with absolute murder because of who they were playing for and under at the time, but Ferdinand and Terry kept him out because they were hugely superior defenders in absolutely every single department
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

  9. #299
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    Gerrard could have played any position he was that good. Though i never thought he was that great at playing the second midfield role in a 3. He always wanted to get forward all the time which was his natural role..It sometimes left us open in midfield. (not slating him for that).Just think he was naturally suited to attacking. if we had another attacking midfielder he could have probably played well in the second role. We will never know on that matter.
    The second role is what i consider the likes of Gini and Hendersons positions.. You dont expect them to be an outstanding attacking threat but they do the dirty stuff in the middle.
    Of late we have tried to get Jota and Firmino (Minamino)the other evening to take it in turns to become the 3rd midfielder while the other plays as the number 9. Its very fluent in that sense..

    Our best midfield prior to this current set up was Rafas Mascherano/Alonso/Gerrard combination. At the time Gerrard was unbelievably good.
    Obviously Henderson is not the quality Steven Gerrard was. But you can't compare most midfielders to Gerrard. But to me Jordan Henderson is one hell of a player..
    Cleaning up the Scots since the 13th century

  10. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by teesred View Post
    Player under numerous managers ( 2 of the best weve had in the last few decades) and is one of our leading appearance makers. Yet again your argument is muted.
    Using former legends to big up your frankly ridiculous over the top appraisal of Hendo is a bit sad in my book. You shouldn't have to or want to do that.
    There you go again You are seriously placing Carragher in the same bracket as Hansen, Lawrenson, Smith, Virgil, Hyypia and even Mark Wright who was an absolutely brilliant defender prior to serious injury? Seriously?

    If you will, please list for me all the the attributes you believe Carragher possessed that one would associate with a top defender, a great defender

    Was he dominant in the air at both ends of the pitch, or even in his own box for that matter?

    Was he constantly scanning and a supreme reader of the game, always taking up expert positons and knowing what was on left and right and ahead of him and frequently stepping into midfield to tackle forwards to stop attacks developing?

    Did he have that acute awareness, never letting players run off the back of him, eyes in the back of his head always knowing where the opposition forwards were?

    Did he possess great technique and agility, a good passer of the ball able to contribute to the teams forward momentum with pin point long diagonals or at least decent long diagonals into a good area so we could win the first or second ball and capable of playing the odd 50-60 yarder over the top of the opposition defence? And quickly able to readjust, spin turn and 'sort his feet out' quickly if ever caught slightly out of position?

    Was he excellent in one v ones, able to take expert positions and body shape and comfortably defend one v one situations, forcing the forward wide and away from goal and holding them up, or standing them up forcing them where he wanted them to go before stepping in and taking it cleanly off them?

    There are a lot more than this obviously, but the others all had at least 3 or 4 of these, Virgil has the lot and more, how many would you say Carra had?

    He didn't play CB regularly until Rafa came, Houllier and Evans tried him there and he was a disaster and never played him there again, Houllier even preferring "Igor has revealed himself in the position of CB" to playing Carragher there. A lot of those CB appearances came after Rafa had wanted to move him on and the infamous refusal to play at RB for the manager who had shown faith and belief and coached him to enable him to play a position no-one else believed he could. After Rafa's departure he 'traded' on the ridiculous, astronomic over appraisal and cult status his time under Raf had seen him acquire and used it to cling on for dear life for as long as he possibly could, he should have been replaced by Kompany in 2009 and that makes him a legend? Give over with your wild over appraisal
    Last edited by Nineteenx; 29th October 2020 at 06:43 AM.
    "If Everton were playing at the bottom of my garden, i'd close the curtains”

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