Around the world News

[dicko1969]

Obviously in the UK the main news is... Brexit

France, the gillets jaunes (yellow jackets)
The French started this back in the start of November. Normally a one day protest. Before Xmas. To say "ras le bol" , we are "fed up" , high cost of living , petrol prices etc.

The French love a good demo. Streets blocked. Roundabouts blocked. Normally burning tyres on the roads.

Tractor tyres, where they get them from... no idea.

They stop people going to work. Even if it's not their company who are striking... block everyone.

Sncf strikes 2 days every week. In fact was 4 days because overlapping times / days. Revolving over 4 months.

Now every weekend the gillets jaunes burn stuff, break stuff, shop windows, vandalism.

The name comes from the fact that you must carry a yellow jacket in your car for safety reasons.

New Zealand: the terrorist attack. Although some don't like the word terrorist.

Germany : Bayern lost in the CL

Whatelse is going on in the world?

[dicko1969]

Brasil : dam breaks , floods , have you seen the video. Unbelievable scenes.
300 people died

Brasil : savage attack from 2 ex school kids 17yo and 25yo.
Like from the game free fire.
They went into their old school
Shot 8 people, including 5 teenage kids. And then knife , macheted the half living.

[Aldo1988]

Another kid gets stabbed in London.

[stevie harkness]

Kids bunking off school on Fridays to stop climate change

[Balinkay]

Fucking hell.

@Aldo

wasn't the whole point of banning guns back in the day to stop this sort of violence? Now they're using kitchen knives.

[stevie harkness]

Fucking hell.

@Aldo

wasn't the whole point of banning guns back in the day to stop this sort of violence? Now they're using kitchen knives.

Years ago surgeons suggested all kitchen knives be rounded at the tip because nobody stabs carrots (most knife fatalities are caused by deep stabs rather than slash cuts) but there was uproar (or maybe it was apathy)

[skyebo]

Everyone's getting drunk in Ireland.

[ianlfc]

Everyone's getting drunk in Ireland.

No different to any other weekend then 😃😃

[Aldo1988]

Fucking hell.

@Aldo

wasn't the whole point of banning guns back in the day to stop this sort of violence? Now they're using kitchen knives.

They are even stopping the sale of single kitchen knives in shops here to try to stop it. It won't make a diffentec as you can go to a DIY store and buy all kinds of sharp hand held tools!

[CCTV]

The greening continues...

[dicko1969]

https://youtu.be/cDbD_JSCrNo

Iceland changed a generation

[stevie harkness]

A shooting in Holland now, world's gone mad

[CCTV]

Turkish suspect Gökman Tanis, 37, was named by police after one person was killed and several others injured in 24 October Square in Utrecht, Netherlands.

[CCTV]

Risen to 3 deaths now sadly

[Balinkay]

'kinell

[CCTV]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/pamela-anderson-calls-reality-tv-14181164.amp

Pamela raises concern over the number of suicides associated with reality TV shows.

[Clungeman]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/pamela-anderson-calls-reality-tv-14181164.amp

Pamela raises concern over the number of suicides associated with reality TV shows.

Is that including the people who slit their wrists when they realise there's nothing else BUT reality shows on telly?

[CCTV]

Is that including the people who slit their wrists when they realise there's nothing else BUT reality shows on telly?

No, just the celebrities who appear in them. The wider damage of these shows is far more extensive

[CCTV]

Notre-Dame Cathedral is apparently collapsing due to a massive fire.

[CCTV]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iQrmJqt8mlM

The roofs collapsed and the y/t video shows the iconic spire collapsing

[stevie harkness]

Sad news. Lots of history there and lots of art destroyed. Tons of lead on that roof too. Nobody hurt though.

The cause is unclear but officials have a hunch it was linked to renovation work.

[Balinkay]

Fuck me. Just saw the footage. Horrible.

[ianlfc]

Sad news. Lots of history there and lots of art destroyed. Tons of lead on that roof too. Nobody hurt though.

The cause is unclear but officials have a hunch it was linked to renovation work.

Plumbers with their blow torches will be shitting themselves !!

[Balinkay]

Seems they lost one of the stained windows and the entirety of the wooden roof, but the rest is fine. I mean, how long can wood last anyway? It was bound to need replacement at some point.

[CCTV]

Seems they lost one of the stained windows and the entirety of the wooden roof, but the rest is fine. I mean, how long can wood last anyway? It was bound to need replacement at some point.

It's good to hear though I think the fire has damaged sections of stonework that the wooden fire burnt out on. Saying that they were expecting more damage.

Think the restoration has been overdue for sometime.
Still a clusterfuck that this happened.
With all the attacks on churches in the last few months specifically, there will be suspicions about who did it even if it was a genuine accident.

[stevie harkness]

Plumbers with their blow torches will be shitting themselves !!

Especially immigrant plumbers... But hopefully not.

Bit of a bummer coming a few days before Easter too

[stevie harkness]

£100m in donations raised overnight!!! Kinell.

[CCTV]

£100m in donations raised overnight!!! Kinell.

Seems to be about 500-700mill with a very few french billionaires chipping in the money. Seems an odd one as the building must have been insured. Still a nice gesture all the same and not exactly small donations.

[stevie harkness]

Yeah they can get their corporate logo emblazoned on the oak beams.

Theys reckons it'll only take 14,000 trees.

[RedNoodle]

This sums up what is wrong with the world. Plenty of rich/well off people giving astronomical sums of money to restore a famous/historical 'building', something that will no doubt gain such people further 'influence' and 'fame'. How about those people give/spend even just a sizeable chunk of that money on things such as poverty and deprivation (namely in the local area)?They won't/don't so because such issues are things that affect 'normal' people and as such will never affect them or anyone they associate with.

Addressing/contributing money to something like local deprivation doesn't get you the same influence/brownie points as restoring a famous landmark, namely because those people championing such 'worthy' causes as building restoration are usually at the other end of the socio-economic spectrum to the "unwashed masses", and thus they care not one jot about such people, until an election rolls around of course, whereby those desperately clinging to the bottom rung(s) of the socio-economic ladder are thrown a bone or two in order to temporarily conjure the illusion that those with wealth and power actually give a damn, which of course they don't.

[teesred]

Noodle, I 100 percent agree with that.
Countries pledging aid fir a building is quite sad and indicative of this horrible image obsessed world we live in.
The outpouring of grief is pathetic, its a building. Nobody has died therefore its not a tragedy as its been made out to be. A shame yes, but not a tragedy.
France is one of the worlds richest ecomonies so they shouldnt be looking for handouts. Half a billion in aid, its disgusting. Imagine the dent that could make into child poverty, actually probably not that much but still no less infuriating.
The media are a disgrace too, havent seen much in the way of coverage on the yellow vest movement thats been happening over there in Paris. Thats because it doesnt suit the narrative.

[Clungeman]

Noodle, I 100 percent agree with that.
Countries pledging aid fir a building is quite sad and indicative of this horrible image obsessed world we live in.
The outpouring of grief is pathetic, its a building. Nobody has died therefore its not a tragedy as its been made out to be. A shame yes, but not a tragedy.
France is one of the worlds richest ecomonies so they shouldnt be looking for handouts. Half a billion in aid, its disgusting. Imagine the dent that could make into child poverty, actually probably not that much but still no less infuriating.
The media are a disgrace too, havent seen much in the way of coverage on the yellow vest movement thats been happening over there in Paris. Thats because it doesnt suit the narrative.

Yeah, thankfully the giant gold cross avoided any damage from the fire...

[CCTV]

Disagree on the value of the building. The real travesty is that some pillock started the fire.
How it isn't insured is beyond me ?

Agree with most of everything else you and noods posted. Only exception being if you look at poverty stats and costs it wouldn't cost much to feed all the poor, malnourished or famine in the world. About 40 billion.

You can look at the eu itself and its destruction of perfectly fine foods down the years in thousands of tonnage of excess food produce buried in trenches. While black people in the main were dying of hunger! Dont vote to leave or you're racist !

Another one is charities and these organisations, they're scams for the most part. The amount of embezzlement etc. Was talking to a lass last year or a little more. She works in one of these charities traveling around Africa et al. Asked her what she did and basically she does fook all. Travels around takes pics and then goes to conferences to promote a specific set of rights. 80k per year and expenses paid. Asked her who she worked for but shed rather not say.... I had a friend whose stepdad took 150k out of the Irish wheelchair association and this isn't an unusual type of story.

The news is brutal. If you want to know or have an idea of what's going on now you have to go and seek it out. The yellowvests and the numerous attacks on churches barely make it to the news here either.
Go to alt/far-right or extreme leftists for updates and I use those terms in a comical sense. Some of the figures that are described as far right today are hilarious Jordan Peterson - the mans a clinical psychologist. Jimmy dore extreme left- a nightclub comedian, better than CNN/MSNBC running a part time political news show on YouTube from his garage - over 500,000 subscribers. Hes not always right but it's an honest endeavour and he gets a lot right. He has just over half of CNN's viewership between 8-11 PM in subscribers.

Reading the other day about a Russian man, Dennis lisov, moved to Sweden 7 years ago and has 3 daughters aged 12, 6 and 4. Who when his wife fell ill with schizophrenia the swedish state services took his children off him because he didnt have fulltime work, against his will and allegedly without a hearing. They placed his kids in a 'harsh' Lebanese descent muslim household for over a year and it was 400 km from where he lived. He still had custody but could only see them a few hours a week. He took them out of Sweden and tried to get back to Russia with his kids. He was stopped in Poland and he asked for refuge from Sweden ! The poles stated his kids are very keen to stay with him and didnt like the foster home, echoed by Russian diplomats.
It turns out the swedes had broken an eu law/convention which prevents services from placing your kids in a culturally/religiously alien environment. Being a Russian Christian is quite different to being Lebanese muslim.
The poles are refusing to deport him at the minute on that ground. Can you imagine how the Russian state will react if one of their citizens or his kids are deported back to Sweden and his kids are returned to the family in violation of an eu child protection measure. The Russians are already involved.
No coverage in western media yet.

That Russian Poland Sweden stand off as I understand the term is an international incident. Where eu law was violated by the swedish child services. Seems to have good support in Sweden too.

The typical news feed is pure drivel. Just this morning on my Google/phone homepage. 3 stories on the royals, Kim Kardashian's bathroom has no basins or some shit, cheryl in cropped white jacket, louise Redknapp says Jamie stopped her being friends with the rooneys, stacey solomons bump in bikini, notredame fire and breaking news fire in mosque covered on other sites already. I swipe em all away for more news and it's got a bit of cl football init but the same shit. This is Google promoted news who have gone into China and provided censored internet.
Swipe them all away and reload and a few cl titles come in and more celebrity drivel.
This is the dont be evil lots news. More and more people get their 'news's online from Google et al.

[stevie harkness]

Not sure why you'd bother to get insurance if you have faith in the Good Lord Almighty.

[stevie harkness]

@CCTV re: charities: 'Actions Speak Louder Than Words" by Iain Scott says pretty much the same, paints a grim picture of so called famine relief workers riding around drought stricken Africa in expensive new 4x4 land rovers doing fuck all but gawping at the dying.

[ianlfc]

Sadly Northern Ireland has been dragged back to the dark times by a small bunch of Wankers.
As much as I don't get all the Game of thrones thing, At least it shows this place I love in a good light.

[CCTV]

Not sure why you'd bother to get insurance if you have faith in the Good Lord Almighty.

It's ridiculous to think this way. It's a basic and infantile level of thinking. For radical materialists like Dawkins its proof God doesnt exist. For evangelicals its proof of satan.
If you believe in humanity why would you have police, welfare, courts, child protections.
Gather this is a bit of a joke reply from ya :)

[CCTV]

@CCTV re: charities: 'Actions Speak Louder Than Words" by Iain Scott says pretty much the same, paints a grim picture of so called famine relief workers riding around drought stricken Africa in expensive new 4x4 land rovers doing fuck all but gawping at the dying.

Not seen it before, had a look at this online but 62$ for a book is some price.

[CCTV]

Sadly Northern Ireland has been dragged back to the dark times by a small bunch of Wankers.
As much as I don't get all the Game of thrones thing, At least it shows this place I love in a good light.

Seen the story, she was shot by new-IRA who were shooting at the psni. Very sad indeed.
What's going on/kicked off up there ? Not much about what was happening there last night in the bits I saw.

[ianlfc]

Seen the story, she was shot by new-IRA who were shooting at the psni. Very sad indeed.
What's going on/kicked off up there ? Not much about what was happening there last night in the bits I saw.

Apparently the police were doing house searches and a few weren't happy so they started the rioting with petrol bombs. Then the guns came out. The best bit is their political party have apologised for the "accident ." you couldn't make it up .

[CCTV]

Apparently the police were doing house searches and a few weren't happy so they started the rioting with petrol bombs. Then the guns came out. The best bit is their political party have apologised for the "accident ." you couldn't make it up .

The police said they were searching a house for guns and ammo, due to intelligence.
Seen a video looks like she was shot in the head going off what others around her said, while not the target as such looks as though she was right beside one of the police Van's further back. Guessing she was living nearby when it all kicked off.
Did the shinners call it an accident !?

Not sure how to ask, but is this new motivation or same old same old? Been lots of talk about the hard border and United Ireland over the last while. Not exactly an area that needs much stirring up, while not trying to put that out as a diminished responsibilty line, just some volatile areas up north.

[CCTV]

Not the shinners but the new-ira who shot her claiming it was accident

[ianlfc]

The police said they were searching a house for guns and ammo, due to intelligence.
Seen a video looks like she was shot in the head going off what others around her said, while not the target as such looks as though she was right beside one of the police Van's further back. Guessing she was living nearby when it all kicked off.
Did the shinners call it an accident !?

Not sure how to ask, but is this new motivation or same old same old? Been lots of talk about the hard border and United Ireland over the last while. Not exactly an area that needs much stirring up, while not trying to put that out as a diminished responsibilty line, just some volatile areas up north.

Two males aged 18 and 19 have been arrested.
Just the usual then, wee lads thinking they're big men doing the dirty work for thugs.
It's who gave them the gun is who should be rooted out. But will the community tell the police ?

[stevie harkness]

It's ridiculous to think this way. It's a basic and infantile level of thinking. For radical materialists like Dawkins its proof God doesnt exist. For evangelicals its proof of satan.
If you believe in humanity why would you have police, welfare, courts, child protections.
Gather this is a bit of a joke reply from ya :)

"Pray to Allah but tether your camel!" - Of course accidents happen, even 'acts of God'(!), but if it is really going to cost £1billion to fix (really?) then i'd imagine the insurance premiums would be prohibitive hence they didn't bother rather than having unshakeable faith. One roof fire in 800 years is fairly low risk until it happens!

I do believe in humanity but unfortunately we also have a dark side and that tends to rear it's head the further we get from how we should be living. Same with animal behaviour, dogs are lovely but if you stress them and deny their basic natural needs they can 'turn nasty', humans aren't much different in that respect hence we have police etc


Not seen it before, had a look at this online but 62$ for a book is some price.

Book prices online are either disgustingly cheap (cheaper than toilet paper + postage) or an unrealistically high ransom.

But luckily I've summarised it for you! Although the author does then go on to say that humans are basically selfish so trying to be 'good' is a waste of time, we need a leap of consciousness. It's years since I read it but he seemed quite angry!

...

As for the 'new' IRA the hope was that 20 years of the Good Friday Agreement would mean a generation was removed from all of that but it only takes a few to spoil it and history repeats, especially if the same conditions exist. I have friends there who are afraid that a badly handled Brexit will mean more of this...but England doesn't seem to care as long as the killing stays over there. It's very sad.

[CCTV]

Two males aged 18 and 19 have been arrested.
Just the usual then, wee lads thinking they're big men doing the dirty work for thugs.
It's who gave them the gun is who should be rooted out. But will the community tell the police ?

Not surprising really, pumped up youths acting on bravado. It's sad what people think makes one hard and robust. Unlikely they will, the fear of reprisals stops people acting.

[CCTV]

"Pray to Allah but tether your camel!" - Of course accidents happen, even 'acts of God'(!), but if it is really going to cost £1billion to fix (really?) then i'd imagine the insurance premiums would be prohibitive hence they didn't bother rather than having unshakeable faith. One roof fire in 800 years is fairly low risk until it happens!

I do believe in humanity but unfortunately we also have a dark side and that tends to rear it's head the further we get from how we should be living. Same with animal behaviour, dogs are lovely but if you stress them and deny their basic natural needs they can 'turn nasty', humans aren't much different in that respect hence we have police etc



Book prices online are either disgustingly cheap (cheaper than toilet paper + postage) or an unrealistically high ransom.

But luckily I've summarised it for you! Although the author does then go on to say that humans are basically selfish so trying to be 'good' is a waste of time, we need a leap of consciousness. It's years since I read it but he seemed quite angry!

...

As for the 'new' IRA the hope was that 20 years of the Good Friday Agreement would mean a generation was removed from all of that but it only takes a few to spoil it and history repeats, especially if the same conditions exist. I have friends there who are afraid that a badly handled Brexit will mean more of this...but England doesn't seem to care as long as the killing stays over there. It's very sad.

There was a paradigm shift in the view of man that has espoused such views. Then you develop lines of thought differently to how you once did and get different humans.
In about 23 years from when I was a teen my grandads village went from one where people left keys in doors when at home or away to afford visitors access to one where there has been 2-3 houses shot up in the last few years with sub machine guns. Radical materialism in effect sadly.

As per northern Ireland imo theres been way too much politicking on this issues with Brexit on both sides, Roi and the eu no better imo.
It's very easy to destabilise a system quickly. It's very had, bordering on impossible, to stabilise a system quickly. Been up north on only a few occasions but those historical divides where they are deep rooted will take a long time to dissipate.

[CCTV]

This is an odd story...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/gina-haspel-trump.html
During the discussion, Ms. Haspel, then deputy C.I.A. director, turned toward Mr. Trump. She outlined possible responses in a quiet but firm voice, then leaned forward and told the president that the “strong option” was to expel 60 diplomats. To persuade Mr. Trump, according to people briefed on the conversation, officials including Ms. Haspel also tried to show him that Mr. Skripal and his daughter were not the only victims of Russia’s attack.
Ms. Haspel showed pictures the British government had supplied her of young children hospitalized after being sickened by the Novichok nerve agent that poisoned the Skripals. She then showed a photograph of ducks that British officials said were inadvertently killed by the sloppy work of the Russian operatives. Ms. Haspel was not the first to use emotional images to appeal to the president, but pairing it with her hard-nosed realism proved effective: Mr. Trump fixated on the pictures of the sickened children and the dead ducks.
At the end of the briefing, he embraced the strong option. The outcome was an example, officials said, of how Ms. Haspel is one of the few people who can get Mr. Trump to shift position based on new information. “Her style and the way she projects herself in these kind of senior situations is disarming, without showing weakness,” said Doug Wise, a former C.I.A. officer who has worked with Ms. Haspel.

https://theduran.com/cia-director-and-nyt-accidentally-expose-skripal-poisoning-hoax-duckgate-video/
The Duran’s Alex Christoforou and Editor-in-Chief Alexander Mercouris discuss the stunning, inadvertent, admission by the New York Times and CIA Director Gina Haspel that much of what we know from the Salisbury-Skripal poisoning is pure fabrication and manipulation.

'Duckgate’, as it is now being dubbed, was used to trick US President Trump into expelling 60 Russian Diplomats over false photographic evidence presented to him by Haspel, as it was provided to her by UK authorities. The manipulation of POTUS Trump, courtesy of CIA Director Haspel, the UK government (and accidentally documented on by the NYT), has now blown open some serious holes into the entire narrative that Sergei and Yulia Skripal were poisoned by Russian agents with the deadly Novichok nerve agent.

Via The Blogmire…
If you’re late joining the party, and don’t understand what is so extraordinary about this, let me spell it out plainly and unambiguously:
Firstly, there were no dead ducks as a result of poisoning. None. Zilch. Nada!
Secondly, there were no children sickened by nerve agent. None. Zilch. Nada!

Yet even though there were no dead ducks, and no sick children, Mr Trump was apparently persuaded by the head of the CIA to expel 60 diplomats after being shown pictures of dead ducks and sick children.
In addition to the extraordinary nature of this revelation, there is also a huge irony here. Along with many others, I have long felt that the duck feed is one of the many achilles heels of the whole story we’ve been presented with about what happened in Salisbury on 4th March 2018. And the reason for this is precisely because if it were true, there would indeed have been dead ducks and sick children.

According to the official story, Mr Skripal and his daughter became contaminated with “Novichok” by touching the handle of his front door at some point between 13:00 and 13:30 that afternoon. A few minutes later (13:45), they were filmed on CCTV camera feeding ducks, and handing bread to three local boys, one of whom ate a piece. After this they went to Zizzis, where they apparently so contaminated the table they sat at, that it had to be incinerated.
You see the problem? According to the official story, ducks should have died. According to the official story children should have become contaminated and ended up in hospital. Yet as it happens, no ducks died, and no boys got sick (all that happened was that the boys’ parents were contacted two weeks later by police, the boys were sent for tests, and they were given the all clear).

And yet despite the fact that no ducks died and no children were made sick, the director of the CIA (a.k.a. the Canard Invention Association), allegedly using information given to her agency by the British Government, showed the President of the United States pictures of dead ducks and sick children, apparently from Salisbury, to persuade him to take extreme action (Note: You can read more about the duck feed and all the other holes in the official story here).
In other words, Mr Trump was lied to, and in a big way, and with potentially huge consequences.
---------------
There's more in both articles, on Haspel and lots more on the Skripal's.
Maybe the skripals were poisoned at a later occasion. Murky world.
But how could dead ducks and sick children be presented in pics if neither happened ?

Personally this story of Russian assassination seemed very fishy to me at the time. It seemed too sloppy for an intelligence agency hit.

They allege trump was pissed having been told eu nations, the big ones would act accordingly but only kicked out a few diplomats. Its alleged he was mitigating the murders as spy games and not on board with CIA thinking.
But the "new evidence" of the children hospitalised and dead ducks swathed him to act. This "new evidence" has been directly refuted as not having any basis in reality

[CCTV]

^^ these links descend from left to right, while some of the thinking is reliant on the NYT having good sources. Though the skripal incident is in the murky world of spies.

[CCTV]

7 bombs gone off in Sri-Lanka and a curfew has been put in place. Reports of 130+ dead and 500+ injured.

Horrible news

[CCTV]

Was thinking of starting a good news thread and came across that report.

[CCTV]

7 bombs gone off in Sri-Lanka and a curfew has been put in place. Reports of 130+ dead and 500+ injured.

Horrible news

Risen to 320 dead and 500 injured.

[Balinkay]

Risen to 320 dead and 500 injured.

Fuck the fuck off. :(

Any news as to who and why did it?

[justme]

Fuck the fuck off. :(

Any news as to who and why did it?
shockkkk horror who could have done it!!,

[CCTV]

Fuck the fuck off. :(

Any news as to who and why did it?

Seems to be a local Islamic group and later claimed by ISIS.
Reported to be a lot of tensions between the majority Buddhists, Muslims and Christians. But not tensions to the extent of this reprisal and mostly between the Muslim's and Buddhists.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-48018417

Not a lot of clarity about the attack and rumoured the state had been warned about the attack by Indian and USA security forces which might lend credit to the ISIS claim - with 80+ detonators found in searches of houses when arrests were made.

[Balinkay]

Jesus. Cheers CC.

[CCTV]

Some shock results in the Ukrainian presidential election. Though its been expected.

A comedian/actor with no political experience but has trained as a lawyer has defeated the pro-EU president in a landslide victory getting between 72-73% of the vote.

The outgoing president had been
casting himself as a bulwark against Russian aggression and a champion of Ukrainian identity. While the new president hasnt really had much policy.

It's a complex result and not as clear as my post might suggest. It's not a return to Russia or a rejection of the EU- who he seems to be favourable to too.

In the main people didnt vote for him as much as they were voting against the pro-EU and anti-Russian former president. While he's connected through his entertainment TV productions to an exiled billionaire who owns that TV channel and has been central in the banking issues.

Big issues seem to be more about a lack of tackling corruption within the state, while theres been a lot of dissatisfaction around billions pumped into the main bank to keep it a float and the IMF, sheer poverty is another issue with many emigrating to Poland for work and a better lifestyle.

Heres two contrasting pieces in terms of tone and content on the election.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1RX01N

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/25/zelenskiy-ukraine-putin-russian

This one below is about corruption in reference to Ukraine involving Joe Biden which has been brought into the US political realm.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/white-house/436816-joe-bidens-2020-ukrainian-nightmare-a-closed-probe-is-revived%3famp

[Clungeman]

It looks like Georgia and Alabama are both wanting to use The Handmaid's Tale as a blueprint for how to run a society over there in the States...

[Balinkay]

Not a fan of anti-abortion laws. I get that it's kind of murder, but damn…*not even rape babies or unviable pregnancies?

[justme]

only in the deep south of America in the bible belt.. Its non of any ones business if a woman choses to do what she wants with her body.With in reason. there should be a time limit to where an abortion is not permitted of course (well in most cases)

[stevie harkness]

So if a man rapes a woman in Alabama and gets her pregnant and she gets an abortion he'll be let out of prison before her?

[Clungeman]

So if a man rapes a woman in Alabama and gets her pregnant and she gets an abortion he'll be let out of prison before her?

Probably, but the woman was obviously a temptation set in the man's way by the devil himself. The innocent child is just God's way of easing the pain for her.

Or some bullshit like that I expect.

At least Newsthump have their take on it which makes far more sense:

https://newsthump.com/2019/05/16/alabama-outlaws-abortion-in-cases-of-incest-because-thats-about-half-their-population/

[CCTV]

Is that including the people who slit their wrists when they realise there's nothing else BUT reality shows on telly?

After the Jeremy Kyle show related suicide it seems there's a possibility that reality TV could be banned.

[ianlfc]

After the Jeremy Kyle show related suicide it seems there's a possibility that reality TV could be banned.

The very first Big Brother was brilliant as they hadn't a clue what was happening in the outside world and didn’t know if anyone was watching. Were as every cunt that goes onto a reality show now do it for the potential fame and money. Which lasts for a short time then they crave the fame they've lost and it goes down hill from there.
As for Jeremy Kyle, it hammered the lower classes and made fun of them and they were that daft they hadn't a clue.
Get rid of the lot of it on TV .

[stevie harkness]

We won't need reality TV when Boris Johnson is Prime Minister.

[CCTV]

The very first Big Brother was brilliant as they hadn't a clue what was happening in the outside world and didn’t know if anyone was watching. Were as every cunt that goes onto a reality show now do it for the potential fame and money. Which lasts for a short time then they crave the fame they've lost and it goes down hill from there.
As for Jeremy Kyle, it hammered the lower classes and made fun of them and they were that daft they hadn't a clue.
Get rid of the lot of it on TV .

Personally think those participants and viewerships are suffering from a mental illness of sorts. Seems to be highly addictive for the fame seekers and their car crash viewers.

They likely saw it as a means in the face of no alternatives. The show is rather despicable in its exploitation of people while the manner of 'treatment' by Kyle is simply poor practice.

[CCTV]

It looks like Georgia and Alabama are both wanting to use The Handmaid's Tale as a blueprint for how to run a society over there in the States...

6 week gestational limit might seem strict but the handmaids tale seems a bit of a reach.
Abortion available upto 4 weeks after missing a period due. Contraceptives and the morning after pill available too. Pregnancy testing for abortion available also.
I've seen some of the handmaids tale which is rather graphic. But it's not like women are being raped by the state for reproductive reasons nor are they being detained or tortured for disobedience.

The heartbeat law will lead to some issues in irregular cases but the overall restrictions which seem draconian for the United states are likely manageable for competent women. That's assuming they actually fear the legislation, be hard to prove they have had an abortion when pregnancy can be confirmed by an otc product. Not like they'll be snitched on should they travel to California.

[CCTV]

Not a fan of anti-abortion laws. I get that it's kind of murder, but damn…*not even rape babies or unviable pregnancies?

Hard to know what the point of the legislation is as federal law has precedent over state law. Think this will get kicked to the supreme court which might be the intentions.
Read that this is in part a reaction to counter proposals to extend abortion to post birth newborns, which hasn't passed in other states.
No doubt the states like other places are becoming more polarised. Whilst abortion is probably the most divisive issue over there. Listened to an anti-abortion doctor who had been a pro-choice abortion provider yet still completed abortions for medical reasons thereafter.
His life turned when one of his kids was killed by a car. Said he gradually couldn't do more and more procedures, till he reached neccesary ones by medical requirements.
Said the federal law is primary and that health is so loosely defined that he'd completed abortions for any reason as a result previosuly. So state laws are useless, hence the targeting of roe v wade was his opinion.

Just a journal not sure if it's a joke journal or creditable. Having looked at some other pieces I wouldn't say its particularly high quality.

After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?
Alberto Giubilini,1 Francesca Minerva2
ABSTRACT
Abortion is largely accepted even for reasons that do not have anything to do with the fetus’ health. By showing that (1) both fetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons, (2) the fact that both are potential persons is morally irrelevant and (3) adoption is not always in the best interest of actual people, the authors argue that what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all
the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled.

* I've met people who argue a child isn't conscious after birth and suggest the limit should be when it can differnetiate between itself and the outside world which is generally speaking a couple of months after birth.

I doubt theyd hold the same views on the sentience of such newborns were it to be for FGM.

[eggy81]

What's going on with trump/Huawei. Looks like they trying to take down Huawei on the face of it.

[redebreck]

@CCTV re: charities: 'Actions Speak Louder Than Words" by Iain Scott says pretty much the same, paints a grim picture of so called famine relief workers riding around drought stricken Africa in expensive new 4x4 land rovers doing fuck all but gawping at the dying.

Charities.There are now so many of them. I don't understand why all the charities join up and become one organisation.
Imagine how much money they'll save in overheads, Chief Executive salaries and the like.

[stevie harkness]

Charities.There are now so many of them. I don't understand why all the charities join up and become one organisation.
Imagine how much money they'll save in overheads, Chief Executive salaries and the like.

There are so many of them running shops on the average high street, and they seem to be run to the same cut-throat business model as the usual capitalist corporation.

[stevie harkness]

Have you seen the queues on Everest these days? The world has gone mad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-48401491

[OhhEnnEmm]

British women urged not to insert ice-lollies into their vaginas in order to keep cool during the summertime. *shaking my head*

[stevie harkness]

British women urged not to insert ice-lollies into their vaginas in order to keep cool during the summertime. *shaking my head*

An 'expert' said that the sugar in the ice lollie changes the pH of the vaginal lining... Oh right, so that's why.

"There are many things that should never go near a vagina and ice lollies are up there." said Dr Sarah Welsh

("up there?" really?!)

[skyebo]

What a subject!!

[CCTV]

An 'expert' said that the sugar in the ice lollie changes the pH of the vaginal lining... Oh right, so that's why.

"There are many things that should never go near a vagina and ice lollies are up there." said Dr Sarah Welsh

("up there?" really?!)

Women have been also urged not to put garlic up there too for treating infections as infections are more prominent now, whilst also warned about using a Hoover to suck away their period as it can lead to increased rates of blood flow and death!!

[stevie harkness]

Women have been also urged not to put garlic up there too for treating infections as infections are more prominent now, whilst also warned about using a Hoover to suck away their period as it can lead to increased rates of blood flow and death!!

Yeah I read that but I didn't want to lower the tone! :-)

[CCTV]

Yeah I read that but I didn't want to lower the tone! :-)

Crassness saves lives ;)

[redebreck]

Two more mass shootings in the U S of A.
Twenty plus deaths.
Anyone fancy living over there?

[Balinkay]

I do. Would love to spend several years there just to see what it's like. The meme and stereotype potential is too great to overlook.

[stevie harkness]

Ever noticed the shooter always seems to be a white man?

Mass shootings won't stop, it's part of their culture.

[Balinkay]

It kind of is - they're insane gun addicts. Might stem from their utter inability to trust their government for whatever reason.

[ianlfc]

Until they stop selling guns and rifles along side the fruit and veg while you're out doing a big shop in Walmart, it's never going to stop .

[stevie harkness]

President Trump has said the gunmen are "very seriously mentally ill".

That's an unusual take, perhaps the guy they arrested can use that as his defence.

Trump also said: "Hate has no place in our country", do you think he's being coached?

[Clungeman]

251 mass shootings in the USA this year so far, it absolutely beggars belief.

It's been said time and time again over the last few years, but when things didn't change after the Sandy Hook incident it showed that they never would.

[redebreck]

251 mass shootings in the USA this year so far, it absolutely beggars belief.

It's been said time and time again over the last few years, but when things didn't change after the Sandy Hook incident it showed that they never would.

Their Constitution gives their citizens the right to guns (bear arms?).
Can't see that ever changing, unless someone with balls starts a campaign to change that part of the Constitution.

[stevie harkness]

The right to bear arms...but as Michael Moore asked in Bowling for Columbine: "Does that include nuclear arms?"!

President Trump looked utterly impotent talking to the media today.

[Clungeman]

Their Constitution gives their citizens the right to guns (bear arms?).
Can't see that ever changing, unless someone with balls starts a campaign to change that part of the Constitution.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

That's the actual wording of the 2nd amendment in the US constitution. That was over 200 years ago when the framers of the constitution had no conception of what the world would look like today, so applying their words to what Americans can lay their hands on in 2019 is quite frankly ridiculous.

And, by the way, this is the text of the 18th amendment to the constitution:

"Section 1. After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all the territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.

Section 2. The Congress and the several States shall have concurrent power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Section 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission hereof to the States by the Congress."

That one lasted from 1920 to 1933, so the argument that the constitution can't be changed is utter bullshit, it's only money that talks over there.

[RedNoodle]

I'm watching some live local news reporting from Philadelphia where 6 police officers have been shot during a narcotics raid.

[stevie harkness]

Trump is trying to buy Greenland now

BBC News - Greenland: Trump warned that island cannot be bought from Denmark
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49367792

Will that be the 51st state, or is that already taken?

[redebreck]

Trump is trying to buy Greenland now

BBC News - Greenland: Trump warned that island cannot be bought from Denmark
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49367792

Will that be the 51st state, or is that already taken?

The UK is the 51st state, or didn't you see the film?
Maybe the USA should try buying The Falklands, or Gibraltar :)

[stevie harkness]

The UK is the 51st state, or didn't you see the film?
Maybe the USA should try buying The Falklands, or Gibraltar :)

Don't need to watch the film, I've been following the news!

A no deal Brexit should make it official, we've even got a US born prime minister in place.

Just reading about how our armed forces are being reduced each year, perhaps they won't be needed when we sell the Falklands and Gibraltar!

[stevie harkness]

Trump has cancelled a state visit to Denmark now because they won't discuss the sale of Greenland.

He'd be sulking even more when he found out it's not really green.

[Balinkay]

Elsewhere the Amazon jungle is burning for a third week.

[stevie harkness]

Elsewhere the Amazon jungle is burning for a third week.

Pity we spent all our money on the Notre Dame fire

[Kev0909]

Elsewhere the Amazon jungle is burning for a third week.

Hardly seen anything about that, not important apparenetly

love island or somit probably make the news before that.

Fuck society about time we started using army and resources, not to fight each other but to stop this shit, a lot of them are done on purpose.. by farmers

[toneata]

Pity we spent all our money on the Notre Dame fire

They took everyone's money then the little Frenchman imposed a media blackout so the world can't see the police beating the shit out of the yellow vests.

Makes Hong Kong look like a tea party.

[stevie harkness]

They took everyone's money then the little Frenchman imposed a media blackout so the world can't see the police beating the shit out of the yellow vests.

Makes Hong Kong look like a tea party.

I've just looked at the BBC news site, the last mention of yellow vests was over a month ago... There are protests in Russia too but not much (mainstream) news there either.

[RedNoodle]

Hardly seen anything about that, not important apparenetly

love island or somit probably make the news before that.

Fuck society about time we started using army and resources, not to fight each other but to stop this shit, a lot of them are done on purpose.. by farmers

Have you heard/read about the recent Harry/Meghan/Elton carbon footprint controversy? Whilst the wealthy and/or privileged remain selfish so and so's (to put it politely) expect sweet fa to seriously be done about anything that truly mattters, namely things that adversely affect those without wealth and privilege the most.

[stevie harkness]

William n Kate just took a budget airline flight to Scotland. You see they do listen and empathise with the plebs, and engage in sibling rivalry behind the scenes.

[redebreck]

Hardly seen anything about that, not important apparenetly

love island or somit probably make the news before that.

Fuck society about time we started using army and resources, not to fight each other but to stop this shit, a lot of them are done on purpose.. by farmers

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/giraffes-threatened-silent-extinction-theyre-18976902

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156492431736966&set=a.78351641965&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/919589131402448/photos/a.919593401402021/2798140406880635/?type=3&theater

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/amazon-fire-brazil-rainforest-bolsonaro-sao-paulo-global-warming-climate-change-a9072596.html?fbclid=IwAR3FD1tD1AbA0EFhOkekrgQGirV 7ILtuSoGcp49PX6CIUQWEx0Iq8wugnjI

..mankind is gradually destroying the planet and all other life forms..

[reddownunder]

Hardly seen anything about that, not important apparenetly

love island or somit probably make the news before that.

Fuck society about time we started using army and resources, not to fight each other but to stop this shit, a lot of them are done on purpose.. by farmers

Its extremist environmentalists responsible for burning the amazon according to Bolsonaro...rolls eyes

[stevie harkness]

Its extremist environmentalists responsible for burning the amazon according to Bolsonaro...rolls eyes

The same guy who said we should only take a dump every other day to save the planet.

[CCTV]

Trump has cancelled a state visit to Denmark now because they won't discuss the sale of Greenland.

He'd be sulking even more when he found out it's not really green.

Think it's more the new govenremnets comments tbh.

[CCTV]

Hardly seen anything about that, not important apparenetly

love island or somit probably make the news before that.

Fuck society about time we started using army and resources, not to fight each other but to stop this shit, a lot of them are done on purpose.. by farmers

Probably the eu trade deal in effect.

[CCTV]

Jeffrey Epstein allegedly committed suicide, what can I say there seems to be unanimous suspicions stateside with a plethora of theories.

[RedNoodle]

William n Kate just took a budget airline flight to Scotland. You see they do listen and empathise with the plebs, and engage in sibling rivalry behind the scenes.

If they care as much about the planet/environment as much as they claim then they shouldn't be flying anywhere, especially when there are alternatives. They are only doing this because of the controversy of their jetting off to private/wealthy gigs and parties. If nobody had said anything they would have done the same when flying to Scotland. I'm sure they'll continue where they left off once the fuss generated by us/the plebs dies down a bit.

[stevie harkness]

Think it's more the new govenremnets comments tbh.

Just going by his Twitter comments

"Denmark is a very special country with incredible people, but based on Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen’s comments, that she would have no interest in discussing the purchase of Greenland, I will be postponing our meeting scheduled in two weeks for another time."

Like she said Greenland isn't even Danish, it's Greenlandic.

It seems he had been at this for some time and she only called his idea absurd because he ignored the earlier polite refusals.

He called her comments nasty but he's since changed tack and tweeted more diplomatic statements, almost as if someone's advising him

[stevie harkness]

If they care as much about the planet/environment as much as they claim then they shouldn't be flying anywhere, especially when there are alternatives. They are only doing this because of the controversy of their jetting off to private/wealthy gigs and parties. If nobody had said anything they would have done the same when flying to Scotland. I'm sure they'll continue where they left off once the fuss generated by us/the plebs dies down a bit.

True enough. Nobody cares enough about the environment, they care about image because they care about power, money, influence.

[stevie harkness]

French President Macron has called the Amazon fires an international crisis, declaring "Our house is burning" - sounds like something Greta Thunberg would say.

[Balinkay]

Think climate change is basically impossible to combat sadly. In a democratic political system it seems really difficult to promise to tackle issues which will not be relevant to voters in the next four-five years, because people just won't vote for you. That's why you see so many running on "I'll raise pensions and lower the retiring age!" as opposed to "I'll fund education!". Children just don't vote and their parents have more important issues. Same thing with the environment. You have to have it extremely well and have absurdly few issues in order to actually consider voting for someone who will work towards solving the issues of the next generation rather than your own.

Also what the fuck is the deal with this Swedish child? Did I miss something?

[Kev0909]

French President Macron has called the Amazon fires an international crisis, declaring "Our house is burning" - sounds like something Greta Thunberg would say.

at least someone has spoken about it.

Nothing ever gets done mind

[stevie harkness]

Meanwhile in the USA they're building schools with impact resistant windows, curved corridors and classrooms with hiding places and central locking just in case of a shooter.

Surprised they don't issue body armour as part of the school uniform.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49447335

[Aldo1988]

Meanwhile in the USA they're building schools with impact resistant windows, curved corridors and classrooms with hiding places and central locking just in case of a shooter.

Surprised they don't issue body armour as part of the school uniform.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49447335

Why don't they just build something that stops nutters bringing guns into a school or anywhere near it?

[redebreck]

Why don't they just build something that stops nutters bringing guns into a school or anywhere near it?

because it's US of A

[redebreck]

Think climate change is basically impossible to combat sadly. In a democratic political system it seems really difficult to promise to tackle issues which will not be relevant to voters in the next four-five years, because people just won't vote for you. That's why you see so many running on "I'll raise pensions and lower the retiring age!" as opposed to "I'll fund education!". Children just don't vote and their parents have more important issues. Same thing with the environment. You have to have it extremely well and have absurdly few issues in order to actually consider voting for someone who will work towards solving the issues of the next generation rather than your own.


The way things are going with climate change and other greed-related issues, we won't have a planet before very long.
Burning the Amazon rainforest, icebergs/north pole & south pole melting, wildlife species and plants/trees being wiped out.
How proud do you feel about what mankind is doing to destroy the planet?

[CCTV]

Think climate change is basically impossible to combat sadly. In a democratic political system it seems really difficult to promise to tackle issues which will not be relevant to voters in the next four-five years, because people just won't vote for you. That's why you see so many running on "I'll raise pensions and lower the retiring age!" as opposed to "I'll fund education!". Children just don't vote and their parents have more important issues. Same thing with the environment. You have to have it extremely well and have absurdly few issues in order to actually consider voting for someone who will work towards solving the issues of the next generation rather than your own.

Also what the fuck is the deal with this Swedish child? Did I miss something?

She broke down in tears and got emotional and then went around European parliaments telling politicians to panic like your house is on fire !!
If your house is on fire DO NOT PANIC - stay calm and follow your pre planned exit strategy. If you are panicked you dont think straight and use up oxygen at an alarming rate acting the tit. CALM DOWN...

Anyway since then shes knocking off school for a year and travelling around the world raising awareness about global warming and being entertained royally, having declared she doesnt care if she is unpopular for her message. A paradox of sorts. Think bands have done or doing a record with her, hard to keep up with the personal benefits.

Having received a bit of flack for her traveling methods already she decided to take a transatlantic "carbon neutral" sea voyage.
On board a carbon fibre (10 times as heavy co2 production than steel) solar powered (using sunflowers obviously) vessel provided by the Monaco royal family, as you do.
Yet this carbon neutral claim has been further undermined by claims that the crewmen hired on the outgoing leg will be flown back to the EU and other crew flown out to return the vessel.
This has now been acknowledged as a mistake made due to the very short term planning panic induced reaction to criticism. So they are gonna spend more money on top of the crews pay and flights expense on offsetting her carbon footprint allegedly.
Why she couldn't just videolink her speeches, stay in school and use all the money being spent on her to plant trees etc is a bit of a mystery. But then she wouldnt get the chance to be flown and ferried around the world and a year off school.

Heres a small enough clip of one of her speeches, loaded with questionable additions/attitudes and certain politics....
VFkQSGyeCWg

And heres a story from Sweden about some dubious for profit start up/charity yoke where I think they keep 90% of donations made to them to invest at their whim.
https://www.thelocal.se/20190209/start-up-used-child-climate-activist-to-raise-million

It's not like carbon capture technology hasnt seen breakthroughs returning co2 to coal/fluid at room temperature, nor is there a small amount being invested in research already.

3 ways to reduce your carbon footprint by 60%
63hAHbkzJG4
11:53 - step one : change your energy provider to one that uses alternative energy, like solar, which doesn't use fossil fuels to cut carbon footprint by 15%

12:44 - step two: heating and cooling your home, most of which is run using electricity so refer back to step one. use products that don't create fossil fuels for non-electric heating. this is another 17%

14:24 - step three: switch your car fuel. use ethanol instead of gas/petrol, this requires an adapter which costs less than 300$ and takes less than an hour to install. use biodiesel instead of diesel, no adapter required. use an electric car, but make sure the electricity used to charge does't come from a source which doesn't release fossil carbon. reduces 32%

Now cars are being considered for elimination from society on account of their production pollution as opposed to operating pollution.

Yet if industry could match this potential reduction similarly the 50%reduction in co2 would be done quite easily.

[Balinkay]

Cheers CC!

Had a bad feeling there was something rotten in the state of… Sweden.

[redebreck]

She broke down in tears and got emotional and then went around European parliaments telling politicians to panic like your house is on fire !!
If your house is on fire DO NOT PANIC - stay calm and follow your pre planned exit strategy. If you are panicked you dont think straight and use up oxygen at an alarming rate acting the tit. CALM DOWN...

Anyway since then shes knocking off school for a year and travelling around the world raising awareness about global warming and being entertained royally, having declared she doesnt care if she is unpopular for her message. A paradox of sorts. Think bands have done or doing a record with her, hard to keep up with the personal benefits.

Having received a bit of flack for her traveling methods already she decided to take a transatlantic "carbon neutral" sea voyage.
On board a carbon fibre (10 times as heavy co2 production than steel) solar powered (using sunflowers obviously) vessel provided by the Monaco royal family, as you do.
Yet this carbon neutral claim has been further undermined by claims that the crewmen hired on the outgoing leg will be flown back to the EU and other crew flown out to return the vessel.
This has now been acknowledged as a mistake made due to the very short term planning panic induced reaction to criticism. So they are gonna spend more money on top of the crews pay and flights expense on offsetting her carbon footprint allegedly.
Why she couldn't just videolink her speeches, stay in school and use all the money being spent on her to plant trees etc is a bit of a mystery. But then she wouldnt get the chance to be flown and ferried around the world and a year off school.

Heres a small enough clip of one of her speeches, loaded with questionable additions/attitudes and certain politics....
VFkQSGyeCWg

And heres a story from Sweden about some dubious for profit start up/charity yoke where I think they keep 90% of donations made to them to invest at their whim.
https://www.thelocal.se/20190209/start-up-used-child-climate-activist-to-raise-million

It's not like carbon capture technology hasnt seen breakthroughs returning co2 to coal/fluid at room temperature, nor is there a small amount being invested in research already.

3 ways to reduce your carbon footprint by 60%
63hAHbkzJG4
11:53 - step one : change your energy provider to one that uses alternative energy, like solar, which doesn't use fossil fuels to cut carbon footprint by 15%

12:44 - step two: heating and cooling your home, most of which is run using electricity so refer back to step one. use products that don't create fossil fuels for non-electric heating. this is another 17%

14:24 - step three: switch your car fuel. use ethanol instead of gas/petrol, this requires an adapter which costs less than 300$ and takes less than an hour to install. use biodiesel instead of diesel, no adapter required. use an electric car, but make sure the electricity used to charge does't come from a source which doesn't release fossil carbon. reduces 32%

Now cars are being considered for elimination from society on account of their production pollution as opposed to operating pollution.

Yet if industry could match this potential reduction similarly the 50%reduction in co2 would be done quite easily.

Industry reducing its carbon footprint - try telling that to USA and China, probably the two biggest industrial nations in the world.

[Balinkay]

The thing with China is that their CO2 emissions per capita are similar to those of Finland and the Czech Republic. There's just a lot of people in China!

[CCTV]

Industry reducing its carbon footprint - try telling that to USA and China, probably the two biggest industrial nations in the world.

The Chinese are making decent efforts and while trump took the USA out of the Paris deal American states are still cracking on with climate change initiatives, to what levels of success I cant say for sure but the individual and society can do it's part through choice. Think trump just saw the accord as a rip off tbh and another means of wealth transfer.


The thing with China is that their CO2 emissions per capita are similar to those of Finland and the Czech Republic. There's just a lot of people in China!

Yep, they've invested a fair bit in green tech too. Saying that I think they have 2km length trains bringing coal to depots.
Global demographic predictions as outlined in the Guardian (that right wing paper) indicate by 2030 that whites will be 8%of the global population and by the end of the century just 3%. Most of the world will be Asian or African come the end of the century so it'll come down to what they do really.

[CCTV]

Also redebreck it's the eu whose negotiated the mercosour trade deal which is gonna play a role in Amazon destruction, though the Amazon is rather more robust and regenerable than many people think.
EU citizens have a slightly smaller carbon footprint than yanks per citizen, probably on account of Slovakia and the other western blocs where in recent years they're are regions which still have hardy lifestyles cutting hay and silage by hand/scythe.

[CCTV]

Cheers CC!

Had a bad feeling there was something rotten in the state of… Sweden.

Yeah weird enough place at the minute.

[Balinkay]

According to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions , if I'm reading it right, the CO2 emissions per capita in the EU are less than half that of the Yanks.

Are CO2 emissions per capita a different measurement to carbon footprint?? I'm confused.

[stevie harkness]

Without getting distracted by semantics Greta Thunberg used the word "panic" but she was calling for urgency, like an emergency, the fire alarm went off ages ago and we've ignored it. Teenagers are realizing that their future looks bleak and governments don't care.

I don't agree with her on everything - and you can always nit pick - but essentially she's saying scientists say there's a problem and we need to do something but we're not doing enough, so what's the point of going to school when her generation are the ones that are going to burn? Fair fucks to her.

If faceless scientists say the house is on fire then nobody listens, but when a teenage girl with Asperger's says it then hey we've got media coverage.

The problem is we live in a culture of celebrity, Greta Thunberg has been made hero and villain, it's a pantomime and what is really important gets lost.

The way modern humans live is messed up. If a messiah was to come along to save us then she/he would tell us to change our ways, and we wouldn't like that so we'd lash out at them, spread lies to discredit them, and the messiah gets crucified. Greta Thunberg isn't the messiah but she isn't the problem either.

We're all in this soup together so we're all culpable and complicit, so we can all point the finger and catch each other out making money and consuming carbon - as if you are only the real deal if you ride in on a donkey and wear a loin cloth made from hemp and eat herbs.

A few years ago they used to reward you for air miles, now they punish you. Flight shaming is actually a thing now!

Personally I'm still not convinced by carbon. I suppose it's as good a metric as any to measure people's impact (do we measure plastic which contains carbon and is made from oil?) and if we can be measured then we can be defined and if we can be defined then we can be divided (and taxed). Meanwhile the world burns.

The government that would punish us for our carbon footprint is the same government that would have no environmental qualms about going to war over oil tomorrow...

[Balinkay]

I assume the cost of things you use per year (like the oil needed to make plastic) is factored into the carbon footprint, stevie.

At least I hope so! Otherwise it'd be a pretty shite metric.

[stevie harkness]

I assume the cost of things you use per year (like the oil needed to make plastic) is factored into the carbon footprint, stevie.

At least I hope so! Otherwise it'd be a pretty shite metric.

I just wrote an essay and you picked me up on something I put in brackets?! :-)

I'd hope it's factored in too...

So our carbon footprint is linked to oil prices?

Who decides those?

[redebreck]

I assume the cost of things you use per year (like the oil needed to make plastic) is factored into the carbon footprint, stevie.

At least I hope so! Otherwise it'd be a pretty shite metric.

I didn't realise until I watched that Ted/Asheville video, that not all plastic is made from oil.
Wouldn't mind using biodiesel if I knew where to get hold of it, and it's not ridiculously expensive.

[stevie harkness]

I didn't realise until I watched that Ted/Asheville video, that not all plastic is made from oil.
Wouldn't mind using biodiesel if I knew where to get hold of it, and it's not ridiculously expensive.

Expense is the thing. As long as governments and corporations see money as the priority any environmental solutions must be cheaper if they are to be adopted.

[stevie harkness]

Using nuclear weapons to destroy hurricanes is not a good idea, a US scientific agency has said, following reports that President Donald Trump wanted to explore the option.

BBC News - Nuclear weapons and hurricanes don't mix, NOAA advises
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49471093

[redebreck]

Using nuclear weapons to destroy hurricanes is not a good idea, a US scientific agency has said, following reports that President Donald Trump wanted to explore the option.

BBC News - Nuclear weapons and hurricanes don't mix, NOAA advises
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49471093

FFS, didn't realise the man was that foolish.

[Nineteenx]

I didn't realise until I watched that Ted/Asheville video, that not all plastic is made from oil.
Wouldn't mind using biodiesel if I knew where to get hold of it, and it's not ridiculously expensive.

True story, a trucking firm my Father used to work for started producing it's own bio diesel and converted all their trucks to use it, the government then demanded they pay a ridiculous sum of money (in the millions) to license themselves as a fuel provider or some such thing or face a fine of similar amount, it ended the company.

It's a very dirty world we live in, a few people with a lot of money and a lot of future money in fossil fuels have been killing things like this for decades. I watch ID and CID quite a bit and there were a couple of murders on there that were hits on scientists inventing new energy sources that didn't use fossil fuels, it's been going on for decades, hits were rare, threatening the scientists or their families to sell their research to the fossil fuel companies so they could bury it was very common. We likely could have had electric cars as good as those coming out now at least 20 years ago.

[Clungeman]

Using nuclear weapons to destroy hurricanes is not a good idea, a US scientific agency has said, following reports that President Donald Trump wanted to explore the option.

BBC News - Nuclear weapons and hurricanes don't mix, NOAA advises
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49471093

I said to a mate yesterday, it's coming to something when the beeb feels the need to have an article on why firing a ballistic nuclear warhead into a hurricane is not a great plan.

Can someone let me know when this whole fever-dream is over so I can wake up and get back to normal? Cheers!

[Balinkay]

Oh, but the fun is just beginning! Global warming is just starting to stretch its legs and the political landscape ain't looking any better. Who's going to beat Trump in the next election? Booty-judge? I mean maybe Biden stands a chance, but Dolan would destroy him in a debate.

Bernie's policies seem to be pandering to the deranged far leftists now…Things will get a whole lot more interesting and not in a good way.

[stevie harkness]

Nuking a hurricane is silly but maybe they could be used to put out the fires in the Amazon? Better than bombing an innocent country...

[CCTV]

According to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions , if I'm reading it right, the CO2 emissions per capita in the EU are less than half that of the Yanks.

Are CO2 emissions per capita a different measurement to carbon footprint?? I'm confused.

Yeah per capita is per head of population.

Carbon footprint would be your specific co2/energy use metric. So your carbon footprint could be less or more than the per capita average.

Seen it given that yanks have per citizen a lifestyle that has 40 times the carbon footprint of 3rd world/sub-saharan citizen. Whereas in Europe our footprint is less than there's per citizen and about 30-35 times that of the 3rd world/sub-saharan citizen.

[Balinkay]

Got it, thanks!

[CCTV]

Got it, thanks!

Still a big difference between the 2 claims regarding Europeans yours 50% and mine 75% of the yanks on individual consumption.

[CCTV]

Though they are different stats somewhat

[CCTV]

True story, a trucking firm my Father used to work for started producing it's own bio diesel and converted all their trucks to use it, the government then demanded they pay a ridiculous sum of money (in the millions) to license themselves as a fuel provider or some such thing or face a fine of similar amount, it ended the company.

It's a very dirty world we live in, a few people with a lot of money and a lot of future money in fossil fuels have been killing things like this for decades. I watch ID and CID quite a bit and there were a couple of murders on there that were hits on scientists inventing new energy sources that didn't use fossil fuels, it's been going on for decades, hits were rare, threatening the scientists or their families to sell their research to the fossil fuel companies so they could bury it was very common. We likely could have had electric cars as good as those coming out now at least 20 years ago.

Sounds like it was all ok and going in the right direction.... until the government came in :D

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
Good documentary think it would cement your opinions

[CCTV]

Without getting distracted by semantics Greta Thunberg used the word "panic" but she was calling for urgency, like an emergency, the fire alarm went off ages ago and we've ignored it. Teenagers are realizing that their future looks bleak and governments don't care.

I don't agree with her on everything - and you can always nit pick - but essentially she's saying scientists say there's a problem and we need to do something but we're not doing enough, so what's the point of going to school when her generation are the ones that are going to burn? Fair fucks to her.

If faceless scientists say the house is on fire then nobody listens, but when a teenage girl with Asperger's says it then hey we've got media coverage.

The problem is we live in a culture of celebrity, Greta Thunberg has been made hero and villain, it's a pantomime and what is really important gets lost.

The way modern humans live is messed up. If a messiah was to come along to save us then she/he would tell us to change our ways, and we wouldn't like that so we'd lash out at them, spread lies to discredit them, and the messiah gets crucified. Greta Thunberg isn't the messiah but she isn't the problem either.

We're all in this soup together so we're all culpable and complicit, so we can all point the finger and catch each other out making money and consuming carbon - as if you are only the real deal if you ride in on a donkey and wear a loin cloth made from hemp and eat herbs.

A few years ago they used to reward you for air miles, now they punish you. Flight shaming is actually a thing now!

Personally I'm still not convinced by carbon. I suppose it's as good a metric as any to measure people's impact (do we measure plastic which contains carbon and is made from oil?) and if we can be measured then we can be defined and if we can be defined then we can be divided (and taxed). Meanwhile the world burns.

The government that would punish us for our carbon footprint is the same government that would have no environmental qualms about going to war over oil tomorrow...

They put her forward as she is a young girl with some level of disability. Shes afforded the opportunity to preach and besmirch without having much knowledge or solutions to offer.

The lack of knowledge is evident in her zero carbon travel to the United states claim. Which showed firstly she couldn't arrange a means of travel better than commercial airliner. Nor did she understand basic realities of addressing the problem, a millionaires vessel has a carbon footprint for example.
The reality is that had she wanted to address the representatives stateside with a carbon footprint less than a commercial flight, she'd have stayed at home and video called.
Of course this would not be very glamorous.

So long as the global warming advocates make ludicrous claims and put forward representatives who are so poorly qualified they can expect to have little success in their appeals. The failure of representatives past is largely behind the modern disbelief.
This young Greta and the extinction rebellion are very poor speakers and have little understanding or solutions.

[Balinkay]

Still a big difference between the 2 claims regarding Europeans yours 50% and mine 75% of the yanks on individual consumption.

I was quoting the wiki list I linked, did I misread it? I do see they are slightly different stats.

[stevie harkness]

Not only would a video call be less glamorous, it wouldn't be carbon neutral either. (I'm still not arsed about the carbon argument, I think it's a red herring)

I don't think Greta Thunberg or Extinction Rebellion have the solutions, bless em, but if climate change is a thing then we need people like them to push for solutions because politicians won't budge otherwise.

Politicians care about power and money. Like I said if someone comes up with a solution to environmental problems that actually makes a profit then we're saved.

[redebreck]

True story, a trucking firm my Father used to work for started producing it's own bio diesel and converted all their trucks to use it, the government then demanded they pay a ridiculous sum of money (in the millions) to license themselves as a fuel provider or some such thing or face a fine of similar amount, it ended the company.

It's a very dirty world we live in, a few people with a lot of money and a lot of future money in fossil fuels have been killing things like this for decades. I watch ID and CID quite a bit and there were a couple of murders on there that were hits on scientists inventing new energy sources that didn't use fossil fuels, it's been going on for decades, hits were rare, threatening the scientists or their families to sell their research to the fossil fuel companies so they could bury it was very common. We likely could have had electric cars as good as those coming out now at least 20 years ago.

1 without having a go at you, 19X, I thought the youtube/video stated biodiesel could be used in diesel cars without conversion.
2 my father (RIP) worked in a company that built electric milk floats in the 1970s - the company started production much earlier, Morrison Electricars. The company ceased production in 1983
link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float#targetText=A%20milk%20float%20is%20a,we re%20operated%20by%20local%20dairies.

[stevie harkness]

Greta Thunberg has arrived safe and sound in New York aboard the good ship carbon neutral, having avoided a mid Atlantic drone strike from the Illuminati

Her being young and female does seem to bug the elderly white men who preside over this planet, sure you'll enjoy this CCTV :-)

BBC News - Greta Thunberg: Why are young climate activists facing so much hate?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-49291464

[CCTV]

Not only would a video call be less glamorous, it wouldn't be carbon neutral either. (I'm still not arsed about the carbon argument, I think it's a red herring)

I don't think Greta Thunberg or Extinction Rebellion have the solutions, bless em, but if climate change is a thing then we need people like them to push for solutions because politicians won't budge otherwise.

Politicians care about power and money. Like I said if someone comes up with a solution to environmental problems that actually makes a profit then we're saved.

It would be less than the numerous transatlantic flights made by the vessels crew.

If you're not arsed about the carbon argument, wouldnt you think shes rattling on for no reason?

[CCTV]

Greta Thunberg has arrived safe and sound in New York aboard the good ship carbon neutral, having avoided a mid Atlantic drone strike from the Illuminati

Her being young and female does seem to bug the elderly white men who preside over this planet, sure you'll enjoy this CCTV :-)

BBC News - Greta Thunberg: Why are young climate activists facing so much hate?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-49291464

Lolz

Pity they couldn't answer their own question :D
The answers are pretty obvious.

[stevie harkness]

It would be less than the numerous transatlantic flights made by the vessels crew.

If you're not arsed about the carbon argument, wouldnt you think shes rattling on for no reason?

No, I think her reason for rattling on is that she's gone to school, learned some science, heard some scientists say the planet is in trouble, seen some evidence on the news, got scared, thought politicians don't care and aren't doing enough and then thought what's the point of going to school if we've got no future, and she's called the politicians out on their inaction. To which I say fair fucks to her.

Like I said I don't agree with her on everything and I don't think she got the solution but if we're going to change the world we need people to stand up and demand change.

And I do believe politicians have taken umbrage because she's young and female, which amuses me - they could criticise her arguments not her pigtails, age, gender etc.

if she's just a silly schoolgirl then just ignore her. Why on earth does she trigger such a reaction? Well the answers are pretty obvious ;-)

[Clungeman]

Not only would a video call be less glamorous, it wouldn't be carbon neutral either. (I'm still not arsed about the carbon argument, I think it's a red herring)

I don't think Greta Thunberg or Extinction Rebellion have the solutions, bless em, but if climate change is a thing then we need people like them to push for solutions because politicians won't budge otherwise.

Politicians care about power and money. Like I said if someone comes up with a solution to environmental problems that actually makes a profit then we're saved.

Totally agree, and I don't think any of them are claiming that they have a solution to the problems we're facing either. It seems to me that their initial goal is to get the leaders of the major industrial nations of the world to admit that there is a problem, and pledge to get behind research into ways that we might be able to do something about it.

[ianlfc]

Like any 15 year old, she's doing it for Instagram likes 😂😂😂

[Balinkay]

The thing is, we shouldn't need teenagers to be worried about world ending events. Grown ups are meant to do that. She should be worrying about which boy likes her and how to score cheap booze. Adults are simply not polling their weight.

I can see that with people from my generation in my country. Our parents were raised under Communism and had to scrape by to buy us diapers when we were young since the country was in such a shit place. A lot of us have been brought up to fear poverty and to do everything in our power to make sure we have our lives set and not care about anything else. Now we're meant to be taking over running the place, noone cares about anything but their own well being.

People about 10 years younger than me, who are just getting into highschool grew up in economically better and safer times and are way more politically and socially engaged. Honestly, it's horrible how they feel they need to step up because fucks like me aren't pulling their political weight. But cudos to them, we might actually produce a decent politician for the first time in 100 years this next generation.

[redebreck]

No, I think her reason for rattling on is that she's gone to school, learned some science, heard some scientists say the planet is in trouble, seen some evidence on the news, got scared, thought politicians don't care and aren't doing enough and then thought what's the point of going to school if we've got no future, and she's called the politicians out on their inaction. To which I say fair fucks to her.

Like I said I don't agree with her on everything and I don't think she got the solution but if we're going to change the world we need people to stand up and demand change.

And I do believe politicians have taken umbrage because she's young and female, which amuses me - they could criticise her arguments not her pigtails, age, gender etc.

if she's just a silly schoolgirl then just ignore her. Why on earth does she trigger such a reaction? Well the answers are pretty obvious ;-)

Spot on.
Everyone has to ask: why are the politicians and leaders of industry ignoring the problem?
The problems are becoming more and more obvious, and they appear to be doing nothing.

[Balinkay]

Who will you vote for rederbreck?

Someone who promises to raise your pension here and now by 10% or someone who promises to do their best to stop something bad happening in 25 years? People are short sighted, we're not evolved to deal with issues that aren't immediate. We're not good at thinking at scale. And until the last generation or so we've not had to.

Democracies aren't well set up to deal with temporally distant problems, because the politicians need to keep the people happy here and now. That's why we'll only start seeing radical changes when a hurricane levels Ireland with the ground or New York gets submerged under 10 feet of water. Because only then will people vote in large enough numbers for people who campaign on environmental conservation, only then will it finally hit people that this is actually a big issue. Because it will be "here and now".

[CCTV]

No, I think her reason for rattling on is that she's gone to school, learned some science, heard some scientists say the planet is in trouble, seen some evidence on the news, got scared, thought politicians don't care and aren't doing enough and then thought what's the point of going to school if we've got no future, and she's called the politicians out on their inaction. To which I say fair fucks to her.

Like I said I don't agree with her on everything and I don't think she got the solution but if we're going to change the world we need people to stand up and demand change.

And I do believe politicians have taken umbrage because she's young and female, which amuses me - they could criticise her arguments not her pigtails, age, gender etc.

if she's just a silly schoolgirl then just ignore her. Why on earth does she trigger such a reaction? Well the answers are pretty obvious ;-)

Your kidding right :D ? Its hard to tell when you're being sarcastic/jesting and serious.

It's hard to think that you could seriously think that had she acted the exact same way, but was a boy she'd be applauded without criticism.
Or that the only fault in her campaign, appeals, communications and strategy was that she was a girl.

[stevie harkness]

Your kidding right :D ? Its hard to tell when you're being sarcastic/jesting and serious.

It's hard to think that you could seriously think that had she acted the exact same way, but was a boy she'd be applauded without criticism.
Or that the only fault in her campaign, appeals, communications and strategy was that she was a girl.

I was being serious, but come on mate that's a bit of a stretch for you to seriously think that I was saying that as a boy she'd be applauded without criticism?!

And for you to seriously think that I was saying her only fault was being a girl?!

Seriously?! You have to be kidding!

What I said was that some people disagree with her and criticise her opinion (fair enough) but some seem bothered by her age and gender hence their insults like "pigtailed prophetess" - To me that betrays their underlying attitudes to people her age and gender, otherwise why say it?

If her arguement is so flawed it should be easy enough to dismantle.

[redebreck]

Who will you vote for rederbreck?

Someone who promises to raise your pension here and now by 10% or someone who promises to do their best to stop something bad happening in 25 years? People are short sighted, we're not evolved to deal with issues that aren't immediate. We're not good at thinking at scale. And until the last generation or so we've not had to.

Democracies aren't well set up to deal with temporally distant problems, because the politicians need to keep the people happy here and now. That's why we'll only start seeing radical changes when a hurricane levels Ireland with the ground or New York gets submerged under 10 feet of water. Because only then will people vote in large enough numbers for people who campaign on environmental conservation, only then will it finally hit people that this is actually a big issue. Because it will be "here and now".

In my twenties and thirties I might have voted for the 10% pension increase. My views and opinions have changed as I have grown older. People become wise, in my opinion, as their age increases.
Those in Government and positions of responsibility are assumed to be wise, and aware of what's going on and therefore be aware of something bad happening 25 years hence. Those people should be taking responsibility to make the population aware of it, while also dealing with it to ensure it doesn't happen.
But they don't, apparently. The media/press is also at fault in some cases, for not supporting those who are warning us, and publicising the problems that are going on.
These problems affecting our planet haven't just started within the last five years, they have been going on for decades. Why has nobody (in government or in a similarly powerful position) spoken out and done something?

[fiordearg]

ANGRY MIDDLED-AGED men have presented a unified front and announced that henceforth all their rants in public, private and online will be reduced to one single-issue; 16-year-old climate action activist Greta Thunberg.

Thunberg, a mainstay in the news for much of the last year due to her on-going climate crisis school strike, being put forth for a Nobel Prize nomination and sailing across the Atlantic to raise awareness for the need for climate action, has been on the receiving end of consternation and condescension from middle-aged men who are struggling to figure out why she makes them so angry.


“I don’t like it, she’s a young female teenager and the world is paying attention to her. They’re treating her protests with the sort of seriousness I’ve never been treated with in my home,” confirmed one representative for the Angry Middle Aged Support Group (AMASG) and father of three daughters who challenge his political stances on a daily basis.

Members of the AMASG have clocked up an impressive number of hours carefully tracking the 16-year-old girl’s movements and utterances, spying for a way to accuse her of being a hypocrite or foolish, and in the process the men have understandably earned respect the world over.

“Eh, she bangs on about climate change but last time I checked she’s a human, living on earth…hypocrite much?” confirmed another AMASG member, whose anger won’t be quenched until Thunberg is never seen or heard from again in the media or until he addresses the underlying issues which are driving him to bully a child online.

“Oh, and I’m not ‘angry’ I’m just incredibly, incredibly mad which is entirely different and logical. Big deal she’s on a boat, does she think being on the boat is going to reverse climate change, which doesn’t even exist?” added the man of a certain vintage, delighting in his take down of the silly naive teenager who presumably stated very clearly before embarking on her voyage that a single boat trip would reverse the effects climate change immediately?




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[CCTV]

I was being serious, but come on mate that's a bit of a stretch for you to seriously think that I was saying that as a boy she'd be applauded without criticism?!

And for you to seriously think that I was saying her only fault was being a girl?!

Seriously?! You have to be kidding!

What I said was that some people disagree with her and criticise her opinion (fair enough) but some seem bothered by her age and gender hence their insults like "pigtailed prophetess" - To me that betrays their underlying attitudes to people her age and gender, otherwise why say it?

If her arguement is so flawed it should be easy enough to dismantle.

I was caricaturing your position and did lead with 'it's hard to think that you could seriously think that...'

I havent done that iirc in this thread, I guess you're talking about twatter or other social media comments, where that is a typical trend.
A trend that is intentionally derived from the social medias algorithms which seek to increase hysteria and rage on the platform all with the aim of increasing clicks, content consumption, participation and revenue.

I'd counter by saying that where ideas are critiqued it's quite natural (if also poor form) for people to focus on the person and play them as well as the ball/thought. I'd say we all do it to varying degrees.

Does it mean that they have an underlying resentment towards women, or more aptly teenage girls ? I doubt it tbh. A resentment for people they disagree with sounds more plausible.
As said her campaign was poor and as such she receives flak for her own utterances.

Say you hate trump and mock his appearances or his profile as an older white man, does it mean you hate all white older men ? I doubt it again, Trump invites if on himself though arguably in politics it is more natural to rub people up the wrong way.

There are biases noted in peoples cognition so it's contestable and you have a point.

As an example
This is David Pizzaro giving a talk about trolley tests (hypothetical scenarios, would you kill x to save y, utilitarian problems) ... "But we manipulated it a little bit. What we did was to give the large man a name. We told half of the people that they were in a situation where there were a large number of people that were going to get killed by a bus unless they pushed a very large man off of a footbridge.
We manipulated whether the guy's name was Tyrone Payton or whether his name was Chip Ellsworth III. We took this to be a valid manipulation of race, and (because reviewers ask for such things) it turns out that yes, most people think that Tyrone is Black and most people think Chip is White. And so we simply asked people, would you push Chip Ellsworth III (or would you push Tyrone Payton)?
We also asked people to indicate [their political orientation] on a seven-point scale, where one meant they were liberal and seven meant they were conservative. In case you're curious, this simple one item measure of liberal/conservative is correlated with much larger and more detailed measures of political orientation, and it predicts voting behavior, along with all the other things that you might want it to predict. We then asked people "was this action appropriate [i.e., pushing the large man off the bridge to save the greater number of people]," "do you agree with what the person did," and critically, we asked people the general principle, we said, "do you agree with the following: sometimes it's necessary to kill innocent people for the sake of saving greater numbers of lives?" (It's a very, very straightforward principle).
What we found was that liberals, when they were given Chip Ellsworth III, were more than happy to say, "clearly consequentialism is right." You push the guy, right? You've gotto save the people. Self-reported conservatives actually reported the opposite—they were more likely to say that you should push Tyrone Payton, and that well, yes, consequentialism is the right moral theory (when the example was Tyrone Payton). When asked about the general principle [of consquentialism] they also endorsed the general principle.
We did this both at U.C. Irvine, and then we wanted to find a sample of more sort of, you know, real people, so we went in Orange County out to a mall and we got people who are actually republicans and actually democrats (not wishy-washy college students). The effect just got stronger. (This time it was using a "lifeboat" dilemma where one person has to be thrown off the edge of a lifeboat in order to save everybody, again using the names "Tyrone Payton" or "Chip Ellsworth III". We replicated the finding, but this time it was even stronger.
If you're wondering whether this is just because conservatives are racist—well, it may well be that conservatives are more racist, but it appears in these studies that the effect is driven by liberals saying that they're more likely to agree with pushing the white man and disagree with pushing the Black man. So we used to refer to this as the "kill whitey" study. It appears driven by a liberal aversion to killing, to sacrificing Tyrone, and not in this case, to the conservatives. (Although if you want evidence that conservatives are more racist, I'm sure it's there.)
So we thought, okay, we demonstrated this using this traditional trolley example. Let's look at another moral example that might be a more relevant and a bit more realistic. So this time we asked students (again at U.C. Irvine), we said here's a scenario in which there are a group of soldiers who are mounting an attack against the opposing military force (this is a classic "double effect" case from philosophy) where the military leaders knew that they would unintentionally kill civilians in the attack. They didn't want to, but they foresaw that it would happen.
For one set of respondents we described American soldiers in Iraq who are mounting an attack against Iraqi insurgents, and in this case, Iraqi civilians, innocent Iraqi civilians would die. The other set read about Iraqi insurgents attacking American forces and in this case, innocent American civilians would die.
What we found, again, was that when we asked people whether they were liberal or conservative, and we look at the split—I'll just give you the actual example we used: "Recently an attack on Iraqi insurgent leaders was conducted by American forces. The attack was strategically directed at a few key rebel leaders. It was strongly believed that eliminating these key leaders would cause a significant reduction in the casualties of American military forces and American civilians. It was known that in carrying out this attack, there was a chance of Iraqi civilian casualties. Although these results were not intended, and American forces sought to minimize the death of civilians, but they did it anyway." And we tell them that sure enough, they do it and civilians die.
We then asked people, is this morally permissible? Is it okay to carry out a military attack when you unintentionally, but foreseeably are going to kill civilians? And what you get, again, is a flip. This time it seems to be more motivated by a liberal bias for favoring the action of the Iraqi insurgents. So we used to refer to this as the "reasons for treason" study. (Laughs)
But you get a more natural crossover effect here, such that conservatives are more likely to say consequentialism is true, that sometimes innocent people just have to die, but only when it's the Iraqi civilians dying. Liberals are more likely to say consequentialism is true when American civilians are dying."
https://www.edge.org/conversation/david_pizarro-a-new-science-of-morality-part-6

[stevie harkness]

@CCTV, I don't think you understand my points at all, but I can't put it any clearer. You're over simplifying what I've said and extrapolating to the point of ridiculousness.

(By the way the "pigtailed prophetess" jibe and similar was from an MP, in the link I posted)

[Balinkay]

In my twenties and thirties I might have voted for the 10% pension increase. My views and opinions have changed as I have grown older. People become wise, in my opinion, as their age increases.
Those in Government and positions of responsibility are assumed to be wise, and aware of what's going on and therefore be aware of something bad happening 25 years hence. Those people should be taking responsibility to make the population aware of it, while also dealing with it to ensure it doesn't happen.
But they don't, apparently. The media/press is also at fault in some cases, for not supporting those who are warning us, and publicising the problems that are going on.
These problems affecting our planet haven't just started within the last five years, they have been going on for decades. Why has nobody (in government or in a similarly powerful position) spoken out and done something?

I assumed it's because of what I said - it's easier to get people to vote for you if you promise to tackle tangible immediate issues. I fully agree on the rest.

[CCTV]

@CCTV, I don't think you understand my points at all, but I can't put it any clearer. You're over simplifying what I've said and extrapolating to the point of ridiculousness.

(By the way the "pigtailed prophetess" jibe and similar was from an MP, in the link I posted)

Don't think the term 'pigtailed prophetess' was in the link you provided so I assumed you were talking about another area like social media.
The conservative mp called the strike from school, truancy in the piece, which tbf to the conservative mp has absolutely nothing do do with profile other than she is of school age.
Having clicked on the link just now it appears his reply was to UK children going on strike, not even Greta. I read it as being against Greta as the piece flows that way. The Brexit associated businessman was also a tweet. I stand by my assertion about social media algorithms and their influence on media and those who use these services blindly.
Rereading the piece again, it seems abundantly clear why she has received flak it's in the piece.

Your piece read to me so comically I couldn't tell if it was sincere or messing.
As such I replied caricaturing your position and posited such beliefs as comical or hardly credible to be exact. The idea being youd reply.
So what are your beliefs on the role of gender-based hatred exactly with respect to the backlash she has received ?

[stevie harkness]

I think fiordearg put it best.

[CCTV]

I think fiordearg put it best.

Waterford whispers is a parody of itself, it's a literal joke publication :D

Heres its breaking news story today....
Local Woman To Give House The Once Over Before Cleaner Arrives:
ALREADY at odds with the idea of another person coming around to*tidy her house, Waterford local Margaret Gunne has reluctantly agreed to hire a professional cleaner for an hour this weekend, but not before she ‘pulls a rag around the house’ first. Leading a hectic lifestyle that involves a committed work schedule, three kids at school and all their assorted extra-curricular activities, the Gunne family decided to enlist the help of a local cleaning company to keep their home in order, with a*cleaner scheduled to arrive at 10am on Saturday morning.
However, matriarch Margaret has undertaken an intensive ‘pre-tidy’ tidy up ahead of that, in fear of mortification as to what the cleaner would think about the state of the house that she was hired to clean. “Between my wife and I, we do our best to keep the house tidy, but with the boys and our own work schedule, it can get a bit messy” explained Derek Gunne, over the sound of frantic hoovering. “Now, while I seem to be perfectly happy with a cleaner coming in and helping out, Margaret is quite frankly ‘fucking on one’. She’s spent the last two hours ‘giving the house the once over’, muttering about how she can’t let the cleaner come into the house like this.*And there’s a lot of ‘the shame’ talk coming out of her.* I tried to say leave it for whoever lands on Saturday, but she’s not to be told. At this rate, there’ll be nothing for the cleaner to do. I wonder would*they mow the lawn?”
UPDATE: The cleaner arrived to a spotless Gunne house on Saturday at 10am, then spent an hour watching telly before clocking out.

And another...
Britain On Track To Fuck Ireland Over Again.
DISREGARDING hundreds of years oppression, famine and general cruelty towards the island of Ireland, the British political establishment peeled back its maggot infested foreskin before gearing up to fuck Ireland over yet one more time.
“Which way would you like it?” prime minister Boris Johnson asked the Irish public as he unzipped his trousers and unsheathed Britain’s throbbing influence, which has actually decreased significantly in size, virility and power since the old Empire days, “I’ll have to pull out that backstop lodged right up your border first, but the lubrication will cost you more than normal as it comes from outside the EU”.
Explaining the safe word ‘prorogue’, Johnson turned to the UK’s red-haired stepson, Northern Ireland, reassuring it that everything would be alright if its stupid ginger mouth just stopped talking about laws, agreements and human rights, that would be great.
“Don’t even think about knocking on the door, trying to get out, as there will be no one there to listen for the next few weeks,” Johnson advised NI, now hiding behind the Queen’s dress, “only for Ma’am and her family here we’d have sold you back to those Irish tinkers years ago – so count your lucky blessings, Paddies”.
Implementing the closure of the British parliament in a bid to stop any interference, democracy, an unfazed Johnson took a Victorian styled candle to the Good Friday Agreement before attempting to set it alight, followed by loud cheers from his excitable party colleagues.
“Ah, it will be just like the good old days, this is for you, Maggie!” the Tories gleamed, as their soulless, beady little eyes danced to the fire’s blue flame.

(Think Trimble was taking a legal challenge against the backstop, but that seems to be below the Irish public radar)

[CCTV]

I think fiordearg put it best.

I think Dave Chapelle puts it better, even if he is a racist homophobe and general all round bigot extraordinaire :D

wZXoErL2124

[stevie harkness]

I think Dave Chapelle puts it better, even if he is a racist homophobe and general all round bigot extraordinaire :D

He's very good. I've not seen any of his racist homophobic stuff though.

[fiordearg]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=_HDFegpX5gI

[fiordearg]

Waterfordwhispersnews.com

Pence Spends Entire Meeting With Taoiseach Thinking About Kissing Him

US VICE president and ardent bigot, Mike Pence, has spent the entirety of his behind-closed-doors meeting with Irish leader Leo Varadkar contemplating what it would be like to place his mouth on the soft, supple lips of the 39-year-old Irishman.

“Don’t think about kissing him, don’t think about kissing him,” ran the internal monologue in Pence’s head as he engaged in polite small talk with the openly gay leader of Ireland, before confirming to himself it was a good idea he banned media from attending and reporting on the meeting with the broad-shouldered, classically handsome Irish hunk.

“But what would it be like to touch a penis that wasn’t mine,” Pence’s head added, contorting his soul into a shape that made him feel all sorts of odd, but very familiar feelings, like planting a kiss on the lips of the Irish leader he was currently locking eyes with.

The meeting, which was meant to be a straightforward and perfunctory discussion which allowed both the Irish and American political class to pretend there is a sustained and special connection between the two nations, became continuously derailed by the US vice president’s predilection for sinful thoughts.

Fuck, that accent gets me every time,” Pence added as he gripped the arms of his chair tighter and tighter with each and every word the tall, slim and intelligent Irish leader said, reminding Pence of Cary Grant and a time when men were men.

At the end of the meeting, which was heralded as a warm and successful chat, Pence gifted Taoiseach Varadkar a copy of the Old Testament with all the bits about how he is an abomination helpfully highlighted, as well as presenting him with a gift voucher for a gay conversion therapy programme.

The Taoiseach had previously assured the media that while it has been said Pence is openly hostile and bigoted when it comes to the LGBTQ community, he definitely doesn’t believe in gay conversion therapy so that’s kind of cool.

[redebreck]

...very Catholic, that...

[CCTV]

He's very good. I've not seen any of his racist homophobic stuff though.

Did you not watch the yt clip !!

He mocked the poor (fianciallly affluent enough to pay 2 Nigerians to beat him up by cheque:D) French victim of a homophobic racist attack by maga hat wearing trump supporters.

He never even seriously addressed the rights of people to fake crimes and make false accusations ffs to create smear campaigns !!

[stevie harkness]

Did you not watch the yt clip !!

He mocked the poor (fianciallly affluent enough to pay 2 Nigerians to beat him up by cheque:D) French victim of a homophobic racist attack by maga hat wearing trump supporters.

He never even seriously addressed the rights of people to fake crimes and make false accusations ffs to create smear campaigns !!

Yes I watched it, thanks, he's very good, so good I watched it again.

At first I thought you were trying to connect it to our earlier discussion about Greta Thunberg and the environment but that would confirm my suspicion that we were talking about two different things. It's all about context.

[Balinkay]

Did you not watch the yt clip !!

He mocked the poor (fianciallly affluent enough to pay 2 Nigerians to beat him up by cheque:D) French victim of a homophobic racist attack by maga hat wearing trump supporters.

He never even seriously addressed the rights of people to fake crimes and make false accusations ffs to create smear campaigns !!

Aah, poor poor Mossieur Smollier. :D

[CCTV]

Yes I watched it, thanks, he's very good, so good I watched it again.

At first I thought you were trying to connect it to our earlier discussion about Greta Thunberg and the environment but that would confirm my suspicion that we were talking about two different things. It's all about context.

While obviously different to a degree, there is a similarity between the 2 examples.

[CCTV]

Dave Chappelle didnt mock Juicey because he hates gay black French men. I'd say the same about Gretas critics in the main.

You seem to see it in one case and not in the other, which does hit on the David Pizzaro research I'd highlighted earlier with respect to liberal and conservative biases.

[stevie harkness]

While obviously different to a degree, there is a similarity between the 2 examples.


Dave Chappelle didnt mock Juicey because he hates gay black French men. I'd say the same about Gretas critics in the main.

You seem to see it in one case and not in the other, which does hit on the David Pizzaro research I'd highlighted earlier with respect to liberal and conservative biases.

I'm really trying to see some similarity between the two examples so let's assume that Jussie Smollett and Greta Thunberg have both made spurious, outlandish claims, and if you like, let's also imagine that they have both done so dishonestly and for personal gain.

The tiny bit of my post that you seem to take issue with was:

"And I do believe politicians have taken umbrage because she's young and female, which amuses me - they could criticise her arguments not her pigtails, age, gender etc."

Greta made her claims and instead of debating and dismantling her argument, elected politicians make personal insults about her.

Jussie makes his claims and a comedian, Dave Chappelle, thoroughly and clinically dismantles his claims, piece by piece.

Big difference.

And by the way, Jussie was the one that made it about him being black and gay - Chappelle just picked it up and ran with it.

[CCTV]

I'm really trying to see some similarity between the two examples so let's assume that Jussie Smollett and Greta Thunberg have both made spurious, outlandish claims, and if you like, let's also imagine that they have both done so dishonestly and for personal gain.

The tiny bit of my post that you seem to take issue with was:

"And I do believe politicians have taken umbrage because she's young and female, which amuses me - they could criticise her arguments not her pigtails, age, gender etc."

Greta made her claims and instead of debating and dismantling her argument, elected politicians make personal insults about her.

Jussie makes his claims and a comedian, Dave Chappelle, thoroughly and clinically dismantles his claims, piece by piece.

Big difference.

And by the way, Jussie was the one that made it about him being black and gay - Chappelle just picked it up and ran with it.

Far more people than chapelle criticised Juicey, including politicians. While chapelle has been critiqued heavily for his bigotry also...

If you look at her speech a few pages back you can see she introduces her age, which is common enough granted, while she uses language that is partisan and attacks many people in her speech.
Her age is an important part of why she was chosen, both by the media and the start up. They've decided to put her front and centre as she is a young teenage (autistic) girl and it is why she is being considered for the Nobel Peace Prize as they have made her an icon.
Putting a teen girl forward makes for a very good shield.

Going out with such a message is a rather silly means of campaigning. If you want to raise your head above the parapet and throw insults about in this internet age, unfortunately, it is sadly to be expected that you should get some in return.
Similarly if you want to introduce a partisan element you will hamper your own appeal.

Arron Banks posted a tweet 'Freak yachting accidents do happen in August ... '

Labour MP David Lammy described the post as "nasty, wicked" and "evil". And terribly sad this man has bankrolled the peril facing our country," he added.
Sherlock actor Amanda Abbington tweeted: “You’re wishing a potentially fatal accident onto a sixteen year old girl, why..?”
Earlier, she wrote: “If you are a grown up, fully-fledged adult and you are mocking this young girl for trying to save the planet then I genuinely feel sorry for you. I also think you are incredibly cruel, vicious and ignorant."
In reply to the Brexit backer’s response to her tweet, Ms Lucas wrote: “Arron Banks’ vile tweet about @GretaThunberg makes me sick to the stomach. I have made a formal complaint to Twitter.”
Femi Oluwole, the co-founder of pro-EU campaign group Our Future Our Choice, tweeted: “Just the man who's been bankrolling Brexit and Nigel Farage since the start threatening to kill an autistic child...”
Professor Tanja Bueltmann, founder of campaign group EU Citizens’ Champion, wrote: “I didn’t think Arron Banks could possibly sink any lower. He did.”

Banks later replied it was a joke.

[CCTV]

I somehow doubt that her criticism, insult and 'death threat' were based on her age but rather her message.

[Clungeman]

Banks later replied it was a joke.

Wasn't Aaron Banks one of those that was pissing and moaning over Jo Brand's joke about throwing acid rather than milkshakes at the likes of Farage and Tommy Robinson? Someone ought to point out to him that if you can't take it, you shouldn't be dishing it out!

[stevie harkness]

I somehow doubt that her criticism, insult and 'death threat' were based on her age but rather her message.

Yes, her criticism and opposition is obviously based on her message (which I said is fair enough), but the personal insults from elected politicians (I wasn’t talking about anonymous internet trolls) were made instead of debating to dismantle her message, which led me to say that it bugs these old men that she’s a young girl telling them what to do, they don’t like it, that amused me. And it reveals something about them, not her.

Instead of publicly wishing a mid ocean accident on her this bloke could have simply pointed out that her carbon neutral yacht was anything but. These petty personal insults just play into their opponent’s hands.

[CCTV]

Yes, her criticism and opposition is obviously based on her message (which I said is fair enough), but the personal insults from elected politicians (I wasn’t talking about anonymous internet trolls) were made instead of debating to dismantle her message, which led me to say that it bugs these old men that she’s a young girl telling them what to do, they don’t like it, that amused me. And it reveals something about them, not her.

Instead of publicly wishing a mid ocean accident on her this bloke could have simply pointed out that her carbon neutral yacht was anything but. These petty personal insults just play into their opponent’s hands.

Twitter doesnt exactly bring out the best in people on account of its format and algorithms which seek to inflame division, drive outrage and profit off the effect.

I somehow doubt his twatter post was him expressing his desire to see Greta drown at sea, guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

As per her, as said, she dished out some insults herself and as such is not exactly without culpability for the reactions she generates.

I somehow doubt these same people joined the outrage gang when an 8 year old girl received actual deaths threats having parodied the American politician AOC the progressive justice democrat on twatter. At which point her accounts were deleted.
Wrong half of the political divide.

[CCTV]

Wasn't Aaron Banks one of those that was pissing and moaning over Jo Brand's joke about throwing acid rather than milkshakes at the likes of Farage and Tommy Robinson? Someone ought to point out to him that if you can't take it, you shouldn't be dishing it out!

I really dont know if he did. However I doubt that Jo would relish the actuality of seeing Farages face destroyed by an acid attack either. Similiar happened with George Carlin iirc the day before 911 and he removed the content.

I wonder if those who decry Banks comment had also decried the comment made by Jo Brand ?
Or did they defend her rights to joke at that earlier time ? Or even defend the action of throwing whatever the could get their hands on at such 'white supremacists' ?

I think the idea that the tweet was him threatening to kill Greta is a lot over the top.

[fiordearg]

The sentiment of having someone perish at nature's hand irrespective of whether they are 16 and within ASD highlights an insecurity in Bank's mind

[CCTV]

The sentiment of having someone perish at nature's hand irrespective of whether they are 16 and within ASD highlights an insecurity in Bank's mind

It's highly unlikely she'd have perished tbh even in a freak yachting accident.
That's an assumption people extrapolate so as to justify their outrage.

[CCTV]

Bye Bye John Bolton :)
Most people are delighted to see him sacked/resign.

Bye Bye John Bercow
Leaves the house of commons with his role as Speaker in a questionable state on 31st October. Timed his resignation to assist his fellow remainers to appoint a pro-remain replacement prior to an expected general election, if it occurs.

[redebreck]

Bye Bye John Bolton :)
Most people are delighted to see him sacked/resign.

Bye Bye John Bercow
Leaves the house of commons with his role as Speaker in a questionable state on 31st October. Timed his resignation to assist his fellow remainers to appoint a pro-remain replacement prior to an expected general election, if it occurs.

Aren't the government (leader(s)) making our parliament a laughing stock?
Absolute effing shambles...
And they wonder why Joe Public has no respect for our politicians.

[Clungeman]

Aren't the government (leader(s)) making our parliament a laughing stock?
Absolute effing shambles...
And they wonder why Joe Public has no respect for our politicians.

I keep telling my Belgian colleagues here - the last person to walk into parliament with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes.

[ianlfc]

All the climate change rallies looked to have been attended very middle class leftie teenagers who don't seem to have ever kissed a girl or boy 😂😂

[Balinkay]

What exactly are they protesting for / against? You can't just protest climate change, that's kind of like protesting against obesity. It'll only change if you identify the reasons for it and change them.

[stevie harkness]

What exactly are they protesting for / against? You can't just protest climate change, that's kind of like protesting against obesity. It'll only change if you identify the reasons for it and change them.

I think it's aimed at putting pressure on governments to stop subsidising the fossil fuel industry. Not sure though.

One of them did say that we need to keep the fossil fuels in the ground. I think they are targeting the Labour party conference next.

The news reports follow a typical formula: film the demonstrators, as whacky as possible, hopefully some police action, then interview the inconvenienced motorists grumbling about the futility of it all and that they just want to earn a living or they are losing money. It unwittingly highlights the problem. One motorist 'protested' that we had two petrol cars but we swapped them for electric cars, like she wanted a green medal or something.

It's utter madness and it won't last, just like that "Occupy" bollocks a while back.

[Balinkay]

Kind of sad really.

[RedNoodle]

These protests are pointless whilst developing countries like China and India use more and more fosil fuels, plastics, wood products etc, because we are a tiny island nation in comparison, and because all Governments are short term in their thinking.

This current 'young' generation are also fairly hypocritical as they are the most 'disposable' generation ever, frequently buying a new phone or tv every year or two, driving everywhere instead of walking, flying off on holiday more than any previous generation, consuming more beef etc and are unwilling to give up these things to do their bit, yet they have no qualms about blaming the older generations for all the world's problems.

[ianlfc]

What exactly are they protesting for / against? You can't just protest climate change, that's kind of like protesting against obesity. It'll only change if you identify the reasons for it and change them.

They need to change it from protests to celebration parades as they are the saviours of the planet. Like everyone teenager around the world they blame their parents for everything! !

[Balinkay]

@Noods,

what happened mate, did one of ours cut line in front of you at Tesco? Who hurt you? :D

And yes, it kind of is your fault - global warming / climate change doesn't happen overnight. You can't seriously blame 15-25 year olds for the abhorrent state of things.

I do agree a lot of us are very hypocritical though. Also think a lot of this is just empty virtue signalling. It's naive and "in vogue" or however the expression in English goes.

However, it's commendable that at least young people are talking about it. It's not often I hear someone older mention the climate at all, when in reality its change is a monstrous threat to all of us. Well maybe not your generation, as you figure you'll be dead by the time Southern Europe is a desert wasteland and Northern Europe is frozen over. :D I plan to live long enough to see that though! If nothing else, then just for the satisfaction of seeing people who've been well of for a while be… less well off.

[Balinkay]

They need to change it from protests to celebration parades as they are the saviours of the planet. Like everyone teenager around the world they blame their parents for everything! !

True, but conversely the parents in this case are too stubborn, shortsighted and lazy to see that things are actually pretty bad. The truth is somewhere in the middle I'd imagine.

And let's be honest here - if you want change in the world (and I think we all do, young and old alike) you don't turn to people in their 40s. You turn to people in their twenties, because we've not yet been chewed and spat out by life and by extension have the necessary energy and drive to actually accomplish something. It also helps that many of us are basically still teenagers eagerly looking for a hill to heroically and romantically die on. Further still many of us just do it to look good and catch starry eyed naive tail.

[stevie harkness]

Part of the problem is people all pointing the finger at each other instead of pulling together.

Youngsters have the muscle and drive, Oldies have the wisdom and experience. What a team!

Some of the Extinction Rebellion people are in their 80s and 90s according to the police who arrested them.

[Balinkay]

Youngsters have the muscle and drive, Oldies have the wisdom and experience. What a team!

Yup. That's how it's meant to be really, but a well informed functioning populace's voting habits are more difficult to predict and manipulate than those of people pitted against each other based on their race, age, gender or preferred party colour. And it's aways easier and more convenient to just say "those youngsters have it so easy and are so entitled, they think they know everything!" or "those old folk are so lazy and set in their way, how easy must life have been for such idiots to survive!". Wishful thinking… what a sin. Has a good case to be the first, second and third commandment.

I was hoping that the turmoil of The God Emperor and Brexit would reinvigorate (or at least shake up) democracy and public discourse in the UK and US and it seems to have worked to some degree.

[RedNoodle]

They need to change it from protests to celebration parades as they are the saviours of the planet. Like everyone teenager around the world they blame their parents for everything! !

Unfortunately this current lot is the 'me,me,me' and 'offended by everything/takes responsibility for nothing' generation.

[Balinkay]

Careful noods, England's a pretty small country - not sure you can fit that gigantic brush in there. :D

[RedNoodle]

@Noods,

what happened mate, did one of ours cut line in front of you at Tesco? Who hurt you? :D

And yes, it kind of is your fault - global warming / climate change doesn't happen overnight. You can't seriously blame 15-25 year olds for the abhorrent state of things.

I do agree a lot of us are very hypocritical though. Also think a lot of this is just empty virtue signalling. It's naive and "in vogue" or however the expression in English goes.

However, it's commendable that at least young people are talking about it. It's not often I hear someone older mention the climate at all, when in reality its change is a monstrous threat to all of us. Well maybe not your generation, as you figure you'll be dead by the time Southern Europe is a desert wasteland and Northern Europe is frozen over. :D I plan to live long enough to see that though! If nothing else, then just for the satisfaction of seeing people who've been well of for a while be… less well off.

The only reason a lot of young people mention the environment is for a bit of virtue signalling and because 'global warming' has only been a 'thing' for the last decade or so. Had the same information been common knowledge/highlighted previously, the same type of debates would have occurred. This isn't happening because the current younger generation happen to be more caring and empathetic than previous generations, because they're certainly not.

We still don't know exactly what effect we've had on the environment, but 'we' have been responsible for likely adverse effects on the environment for a couple of hundred years at least. Trying to pin any adverse changes on any one generation is both disingenuous and a way for some to deflect any responsibility away from themselves when they may have caused/are causing their own adverse effects on the environment. This includes the current younger generation who are very good at pointing their fingers, but aren't very self aware and willing to take responsibility for what they are/should be doing.

[RedNoodle]

Careful noods, England's a pretty small country - not sure you can fit that gigantic brush in there. :D

I base my views on what I see/experience, not on what is deemed 'acceptable' by this current 'hear/speak/see no evil' world in which we live. There are rarely any absolutes, but there are many more 'general truths' than people want want to admit.

[ianlfc]

True, but conversely the parents in this case are too stubborn, shortsighted and lazy to see that things are actually pretty bad. The truth is somewhere in the middle I'd imagine.

And let's be honest here - if you want change in the world (and I think we all do, young and old alike) you don't turn to people in their 40s. You turn to people in their twenties, because we've not yet been chewed and spat out by life and by extension have the necessary energy and drive to actually accomplish something. It also helps that many of us are basically still teenagers eagerly looking for a hill to heroically and romantically die on. Further still many of us just do it to look good and catch starry eyed naive tail.

The last thing you should be worrying about in your twenties is saving the planet, There's far too much good things to be getting up too. Travelling, partying and mixing them both following a football team is highly recommended. Because once you start a family it slows down. Its when you're in your 30's you start to put paper in the right bins, not your 20's. And If it is youre doing something wrong.

[stevie harkness]

It sounds as though many of these youngsters are too scared to start families and bring children into this world.

If it really is the end of the world then even at my age I'll be partying with the rest of them!

although predictive text wants me to say "praying"

[Balinkay]

The only reason a lot of young people mention the environment is for a bit of virtue signalling

This is completely true. But, as you say, this is the case for many, not all, and I'd argue not the majority.


and because 'global warming' has only been a 'thing' for the last decade or so. Had the same information been common knowledge/highlighted previously, the same type of debates would have occurred.

This is not as true. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/discovery-of-global-warming/ We've known about the effects of CO2 for a good long while, quite a lot longer than you've been alive. I do agree the information was not as easily accessible, but I also remember reading somewhere that environmental issues were actually more politically relevant in the 80s than they are now (speaking time spent on them by each candidate), could be wrong though. So it's not like it wasn't public knowledge that something fishy is going on with the climate.


This isn't happening because the current younger generation happen to be more caring and empathetic than previous generations, because they're certainly not.

I'd argue this is happening because we have no "great enemy" right now. We don't have the Kaiser to smash on Flanders's fields, nor do we have an economic crisis to survive, we won't cower in the bunkers as the Luftwaffe turns our homes to rubble and we won't spend our day being constantly told about the evils of the USSR or protesting against war while consuming endless amounts of drugs and listening to odd music.

People are more easily united by fear and hatred than by anything else, again, making their voting patterns more easy to recognise and control. Which makes you wonder who profits from all of this "climate outrage".



We still don't know exactly what effect we've had on the environment, but 'we' have been responsible for likely adverse effects on the environment for a couple of hundred years at least.

It's true that we started putting gunk in the air with the Industrial Revolution (Industrial towns in England experienced some awful deadly smogs during that period iirc, indicating something might be wrong), but we've been fucking up local ecosystems ever since we invented agriculture. The really bad stuff came with coal burning, the internal combustion engine and the industrialisation of larger countries, which by and large took place in the 20th century.



Trying to pin any adverse changes on any one generation is both disingenuous and a way for some to deflect any responsibility away from themselves when they may have caused/are causing their own adverse effects on the environment. This includes the current younger generation who are very good at pointing their fingers, but aren't very self aware and willing to take responsibility for what they are/should be doing.

Of course it's not only your fault. But it's far more your fault than it is the fault of an 18/25-year-old who just got out of school and has just acquired the right to vote. Take responsibility and vote for people who will do something about it.


I base my views on what I see/experience, not on what is deemed 'acceptable' by this current 'hear/speak/see no evil' world in which we live. There are rarely any absolutes, but there are many more 'general truths' than people want want to admit.

This is, again, very true. I just think you're quite wrong when it comes to my generation, or at least the sample of it I've had the pleasure of experiencing.


The last thing you should be worrying about in your twenties is saving the planet, There's far too much good things to be getting up too. Travelling, partying and mixing them both following a football team is highly recommended. Because once you start a family it slows down. Its when you're in your 30's you start to put paper in the right bins, not your 20's. And If it is youre doing something wrong.

It shouldn't be though Ian. We can't afford the luxury of having a billion people not give a damn about paper recycling (if I can continue your synecdoche). We all have to work together towards the common goal of fucking up the place we inhabit less. And you say you don't worry about those things in your 20s, but here in Germany I'm astounded how careful pretty much every German my age I've met is about polluting. They're extremely vigilant about their waste, they try to fly less and there are initiatives all the time about cleaning our surroundings or better gathering trash. Jerry's very aware of the issue.

Being less horrible to the environment is a way of life - it should be taught to people from the day they are born - like good manners, honesty, indoctrination into the cult of LFC… all that good essential stuff. :D

Also one of the reasons I said you turn to people in their 20s when you want to make a change is the issue of family. Being a parent is basically a full time job, if you want to do it well. Better to turn to energetic people who don't have a family to feed and are thus probably more willing to do stupid shite for you. Well that would be one reason - the other would be that we're still basically teenagers who can legally buy alcohol.

[ianlfc]

TBF Bali you don't seem your average young twenty-something.

[Balinkay]

It sounds as though many of these youngsters are too scared to start families and bring children into this world.

If it really is the end of the world then even at my age I'll be partying with the rest of them!

although predictive text wants me to say "praying"

I know I'm very afraid of starting a family, and that goes for a few of the people I know. It's scary to think that when my sister was born my father was not much older than I am right now. It's a huge responsibility and seeing the effects of the mistakes our parents made with us and on our mental well-being makes us fear for what we might do to our kids if we're not well enough prepared. Also the world is so much smaller nowadays, there's so much more to do. Once you have a family, you're really tied down.

The questioning of exclusive monogamy and the traditional sense of the word "relationship" don't help either. I'm in no way saying it's a bad thing we're questioning these notions, but I can see how they'd affect young people's willingness to start a family.

It doesn't help that a lot of us are afraid of any sort of responsibility either.


TBF Bali you don't seem your average young twenty-something.

I guess it really depends on the environment - I'd argue I'm not too weird over here. :D

[CCTV]

@ Bali What do you think of the research by Soon, Connolly and Connolly which posits that since the end of the 1800s that a maximum of 0.12° of the 0.85° in increased temperature is attributable to co2. While the majority of the warming can be attributed to TSI ?

What do you think of the libel Case Mann lost ?
The one where he refused to make his data available for inspection, citing it was his intellectual property, meaning that now saying mann belongs in a state penn and not Penn state, implying fraud is fine. The court awarded costs to ball for the 8 year trial and those costs are said to be in the millions.
Would rather lose his libel case, spend millions in costs (picked up by other interested parties) than put his data and methodology out there for third party inspection and scrutiny ?
The charge is quiet serious.

What do you think of the criticism of cook by respected researchers in the field. The commonly thrown out line of 97% consensus. Poor methodology, selective sampling and poor assessment to deliver a scientific consensus, when there really isn't a consensus.
“Cook survey included 10 of my 122 eligible papers. 5/10 were rated incorrectly. 4/5 were rated as endorse rather than neutral.” —Dr. Richard Tol
“That is not an accurate representation of my paper . . .” —Dr. Craig Idso
“Nope . . . it is not an accurate representation.” —Dr. Nir Shaviv
“Cook et al. (2013) is based on a strawman argument . . .” —Dr. Nicola Scafetta

These 2 are the bedrock of the climate strike and many others campaign. Listen to the science. The hockey stick and the scientific consensus. Both are rather questionable as having scientific integrity.

In the 80s the ozone hole was a big issue and dealt with shortly thereafter largely, though today air aviation is said to be doing damage by releasing sulphites and the likes at such altitudes which eats away at the ozone, though the ozone hole has been at record lows in recent years.

I find it funny how you think global warming is more noods fault than your own. Wouldnt an actual assement of both ye're carbon footprints be a more accurate measurement if you're looking to blame people ?
I'd wager despite increased efficiencies you'll have a bigger footprint per year of life.

[CCTV]

True, but conversely the parents in this case are too stubborn, shortsighted and lazy to see that things are actually pretty bad. The truth is somewhere in the middle I'd imagine. And let's be honest here - if you want change in the world (and I think we all do, young and old alike) you don't turn to people in their 40s. You turn to people in their twenties, because we've not yet been chewed and spat out by life and by extension have the necessary energy and drive to actually accomplish something. It also helps that many of us are basically still teenagers eagerly looking for a hill to heroically and romantically die on. Further still many of us just do it to look good and catch starry eyed naive tail.

Oh dear, students and the elderly are preyed upon for their naivety being easily manipulated and having senses of guilt, dont confuse a flaw for a valour. It's part of the street charities training to prey upon vulnerable adults.

Have you read their demands yet ?

[Balinkay]

I haven't read their demands CC - as I stated, I'm not a huge fan of these protests and I'd probably be inclined to agree elderly and young are easy prey and more easily manipulated; I'm sure you'd agree that middle aged people are too stuck in their ways trying to make their way through life to notice anything farther than their own noses. As I said earlier, the truth is probably somewhere in between. For example, AOC's idea to ban flying by 2025 is utter lunacy. But is probably a good idea to take the train more often than we currently do.

Haven't look at the papers to which you're referring here:


@ Bali What do you think of the research by Soon, Connolly and Connolly which posits that since the end of the 1800s that a maximum of 0.12° of the 0.85° in increased temperature is attributable to co2. While the majority of the warming can be attributed to TSI ?

Is this he paper you mean? https://globalwarmingsolved.com/data_files/SCC2015_preprint.pdf

Might take a look at that first one. Sounds extremely fishy if I'm being honest. Also even if it is true, CO2 is hardly the only pollutant we're throwing up in the air. What's more the more the temperature increases, the more water the atmosphere holds and the more it heats itself. Could be that the study controlled for that, will have to take a look.

I honestly don't know about the cases you're citing. Tjough they do sound very interesting.


I find it funny how you think global warming is more noods fault than your own. Wouldnt an actual assement of both ye're carbon footprints be a more accurate measurement if you're looking to blame people ?
I'd wager despite increased efficiencies you'll have a bigger footprint per year of life.

I'm not looking to blame people - we're all in this together. I just don't like people waving away issues we all face by saying "well screw you guys, you're just as bad as us so there". It's also extremely dishonest to compare our CO2 footprint per year of life. You don't get to make too many decisions for yourself until you come of age at 18. CO2 per year of adult life would be a more accurate assessment imo. I think I'd do reasonably well there.

And even that doesn't really work all that well, since I'll still have to ride the bus. Which isn't electric, since noone voted for it before I came of age. Change in a society takes time.

Of course we're all in this together and we're all to blame to some extent. But it's laughable to suggest that my generation, which has only had the opportunity to impact policy for a decade or so is at fault for the current situation, simply because we've not had the time to make our impact on the world. I'd wager that in 50 years, we'd all have had a lower CO2 footprint than yours and noodle's generation. And hopefully the following ones will be lower still.

Edit: How did you form your opinion on the paper you referenced? Did you read the paper and follow all the references? If so, I'll probably just take you at your word that CO2 only contributes to 15% of global warming, unless I feel like reading more, as you seem like a reasonably critically thinking dude.

[CCTV]

Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing. If this occurred unexpectedly, please*inform the administrator*and describe the action you performed before you received this error.

The fooking bane of my posting on here :D

Will try again tomorrow.

[Balinkay]

What the heck does that error message even mean. :D

Did you delete cookies or something? I don't think there's a session timer on the forum, so it won't have signed you out. :D

[Balinkay]

Aaah, I think it might be because you were writing too long a post or it was taking too long - think I had the same problem when I tried to start a Maradona vs Messi discussion.

If so, I don't think there's any cause - I fail to see where we actually disagree.

[CCTV]

What the heck does that error message even mean. :D

Did you delete cookies or something? I don't think there's a session timer on the forum, so it won't have signed you out. :D

Dunno :D
Think it might have happened as a result of looking at others tabs and coming back to the thread.

[Balinkay]

These are glorious!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_eM0avzlHc

[CCTV]

Seems some kind of incident occurred at London bridge again. Lots of police around and the area shut down possibly looking for other attackers who may have been hiding in with the public. Seems one attacker might have been shot

[Balinkay]

Fucking hell. Any injured?

[RedNoodle]

Fucking hell. Any injured?

A few people were stabbed. There's no current information on how many or their condition.

[skyebo]

He won't be stabbing anyone else, the police have seen him off.

[RedNoodle]

He won't be stabbing anyone else, the police have seen him off.

Sad to say but there's plenty more like him.

[skyebo]

Sad to say but there's plenty more like him.

Indeed Noods.

[Balinkay]

Sad to say but there's plenty more like him.

There's a monster in all of Noods. Still, it's awful. I hope the victims make it out ok.

[RedNoodle]

There's a monster in all of Noods. Still, it's awful. I hope the victims make it out ok.

Errr no there isn't. Most individuals don't stab other people unless their or someone elses life/safety is at risk. Anyone who does otherwise is either 'deranged' and or/concerned about nobody but themselves and as such both types should be permanently removed from society one way or the other.

[RedNoodle]

Two people are confirmed dead.

[Balinkay]

Fucking hell.

What I meant was that we all have the capacity to commit horrendous acts of violence under the right (wrong ?) circumstances. Something must have gone horribly wrong in this guy's life to lead him down this path.

[RedNoodle]

Fucking hell.

What I meant was that we all have the capacity to commit horrendous acts of violence under the right (wrong ?) circumstances. Something must have gone horribly wrong in this guy's life to lead him down this path.

Nope. As someone who has seen and been through 'horrendous' things, I still don't have the overwhelming urge to go out and stab innocent people. It's all down to 'nature' and 'nurture'/'brainwashing'. Most people who are subjected to certain difficulties (poverty, abuse, discrimination) do not take out their problems and frustrations on the innocent. If someone is not right in the head, they never will be no matter their circumstances, whilst others are easily manipulated into committing various acts or taking a certain path through life.

[stevie harkness]

The terrorist threat was publicly scaled down recently and there's an election on, and London is busy with shoppers on Black Friday, the terrorist was known to police and wearing an electronic tag... hindsight is a wonderful thing

A seemingly similar incident in the Hague today too.

[CCTV]

Fucking hell.

What I meant was that we all have the capacity to commit horrendous acts of violence under the right (wrong ?) circumstances. Something must have gone horribly wrong in this guy's life to lead him down this path.

Maybe, not must.
It's quite plausible that this 'lunatic' had as much go horribly wrong in his life as anyone who willingly risked their life in war. That is to say not much at all.

[ianlfc]

Fucking hell.

What I meant was that we all have the capacity to commit horrendous acts of violence under the right (wrong ?) circumstances. Something must have gone horribly wrong in this guy's life to lead him down this path.

We know what you meant 😂😂
You need to find yourself new friends and I'd start distanceing myself from the family if I were you !!!

[Balinkay]

Maybe, not must.
It's quite plausible that this 'lunatic' had as much go horribly wrong in his life as anyone who willingly risked their life in war. That is to say not much at all.

I think going to war is very much "something going wrong" in your life - we're not meant to deal with such horror.

@Noods - I respectfully disagree.

[CCTV]

The terrorist threat was publicly scaled down recently and there's an election on, and London is busy with shoppers on Black Friday, the terrorist was known to police and wearing an electronic tag... hindsight is a wonderful thing

A seemingly similar incident in the Hague today too.

Pretty hard job to keep tabs on those on the terrorist list tbf, think it's about 25,000 individuals and some not on the list have been the actors in terrorist attacks.

25,000 monitored by the entire UK police force and army is a task in itself. There are other aspects of policing to deal with as well.

[CCTV]

I think going to war is very much "something going wrong" in your life - we're not meant to deal with such horror.

@Noods - I respectfully disagree.

People who've had absolutely average lives join the army.
Those who are willing to give their lives don't have to have something go horribly wrong in their lives to have such values.

[stevie harkness]

Pretty hard job to keep tabs on those on the terrorist list tbf, think it's about 25,000 individuals and some not on the list have been the actors in terrorist attacks.

25,000 monitored by the entire UK police force and army is a task in itself. There are other aspects of policing to deal with as well.

I had no idea the terrorist list was that long, which makes the decision to publicly scale down the terrorist threat in the run up to Christmas and during an election even more baffling. Like I said hindsight is a wonderful thing

[Balinkay]

People who've had absolutely average lives join the army.
Those who are willing to give their lives don't have to have something go horribly wrong in their lives to have such values.

You misunderstand tremendously - I'm not calling them crazy. I'm saying that the experience of going to war is "something going horribly wrong". It might have been the right thing to do at the time. But it is nonetheless a traumatic and awful experience that I'm not sure humans are meant to be able to deal with.

[CCTV]

I had no idea the terrorist list was that long, which makes the decision to publicly scale down the terrorist threat in the run up to Christmas and during an election even more baffling. Like I said hindsight is a wonderful thing

The threat level is likely gauged separately to the number of individuals on the list. By chatter, activity and Intel.
Obviously terrorists dont liaise with security services, but it'd be like knowing how many XR people there are, then trying to guess how likely they are to act over a given period that would determine the threat level.

[ianlfc]

Pretty hard job to keep tabs on those on the terrorist list tbf, think it's about 25,000 individuals and some not on the list have been the actors in terrorist attacks.

25,000 monitored by the entire UK police force and army is a task in itself. There are other aspects of policing to deal with as well.

I'd say 25,000 is very conservative. I'd bet money that people in the area this fella lived in were well aware of his beliefs and no doubt his priest at his local Mosque knew all about him. People and especially religious leaders need to talk to police and tip them off to prevent such things.

[CCTV]

You misunderstand tremendously - I'm not calling them crazy. I'm saying that the experience of going to war is "something going horribly wrong". It might have been the right thing to do at the time. But it is nonetheless a traumatic and awful experience that I'm not sure humans are meant to be able to deal with.

I dont follow you, you said: Something must have gone horribly wrong in this guy's life to lead him down this path.

Having to go to war is obviously not desirable, like you say, but not going to war in the same context can be worse.
I believe there was some discussion about this in britain around ww2. Whether britain would be better off appeasing hitler or fighting a war against hitler.
Defeating hitler cost Britain alot, not fighting could've easily been worse in the longer term.

[stevie harkness]

The threat level is likely gauged separately to the number of individuals on the list. By chatter, activity and Intel.
Obviously terrorists dont liaise with security services, but it'd be like knowing how many XR people there are, then trying to guess how likely they are to act over a given period that would determine the threat level.

Well obviously nobody knows what the real threat is until it happens and hindsight is a wonderful thing but it's daft to publicly scale down the estimate given the conditions - it's Christmas shopping time and there's an election on.

[Balinkay]

I dont follow you, you said: Something must have gone horribly wrong in this guy's life to lead him down this path.

Having to go to war is obviously not desirable, like you say, but not going to war in the same context can be worse.
I believe there was some discussion about this in britain around ww2. Whether britain would be better off appeasing hitler or fighting a war against hitler.
Defeating hitler cost Britain alot, not fighting could've easily been worse in the longer term.

Yes, exactly. Doing the right thing in a given situation might lead you on a path of "something going wrong". In your example all the veterans and 600k (?) casualties the UK gave wouldn't have had their lives altered for ever (which I consider something going wrong) but then the Axis might have won the war, which would have been "wrong" as well.

Sometimes you can't win and something will go wrong either way. You have to choose what you prefer and at what point your stance changes. The powers that be decided that Czechoslovakia disappearing hadn't crossed that point, but Poland getting bodied had.

[CCTV]

I'd say 25,000 is very conservative. I'd bet money that people in the area this fella lived in were well aware of his beliefs and no doubt his priest at his local Mosque knew all about him. People and especially religious leaders need to talk to police and tip them off to prevent such things.

I would think so too.
That's the known, there are unknowns and then there's the wider community. Where they may not agree or participate, but won't squeal to the authorities. I think you'd know better how that works, not wanting to help the other side who they might deem worse, or fear of reprisal for doing so etc.

He'd been imprisoned for terrorist offenses in 2012, then released early in 2018 on condition. So not much anyone could have done about it imo, assuming he mingled with non like minded individuals.

Some religious leaders do, others drive it. Took the authorities years to get that man with the hook through courts.

Reading online comments today and over the past there's a lot of instability and accusations flying around. Growing too imo.

[CCTV]

Well obviously nobody knows what the real threat is until it happens and hindsight is a wonderful thing but it's daft to publicly scale down the estimate given the conditions - it's Christmas shopping time and there's an election on.

Christian religious holidays Easter/Christmas, or national holidays say new years/Bastille day would be the targets as they impact the 'real'/trauma/psyche more so.
They are very keen on attacking the symbolic.

But then the chatter/intel/activity plays it's part.
If you knew the attacks were coming every new years day, it wouldnt have the same impact.

[CCTV]

Yes, exactly. Doing the right thing in a given situation might lead you on a path of "something going wrong". In your example all the veterans and 600k (?) casualties the UK gave wouldn't have had their lives altered for ever (which I consider something going wrong) but then the Axis might have won the war, which would have been "wrong" as well.

Sometimes you can't win and something will go wrong either way. You have to choose what you prefer and at what point your stance changes. The powers that be decided that Czechoslovakia disappearing hadn't crossed that point, but Poland getting bodied had.

Something must have gone horribly wrong in this guy's life to lead him down this path.

Is what you said, all I'm saying is that is not neccessarily so.

He is dead now, so his life has come to an end. Which obviously isnt a good outcome with respect to self preservation. If that's what you mean.

[Balinkay]

Not exactly - I think choices were made and events took place that drove him to these awful actions. That I would consider something going wrong.

[justme]

I think its because he couldn't handle the fact his Islamic ideology and supremacy weren't being adhered to.
Isis have been eliminated and he blamed the evil west for it. while holding even worse ideas himself.

[CCTV]

Not exactly - I think choices were made and events took place that drove him to these awful actions. That I would consider something going wrong.

I agree this fella turning up in a frenzy to kill, scar and terrify the public is something going wrong. It's a problem that's not easily resolved.

I just disagree that: Something must have gone horribly wrong in this guy's life to lead him down this path.

Quite likely this fella thinks he was like those Brits landing on the beaches for the greater good. Not that he'd see them as morally similar, as in his eyes the UK, its history and people as an evil enemy.

[Balinkay]

I don't know enough about this dude, but I'll just assume what you say is true.

I think the disagreement comes from us using "wrong" in two different ways. In this thread I've used it to sometimes characterise something happening that alters a person's mind in a way that lets them do things you and I consider awful or just generally "fucks them up" and sometimes to describe what is deviation from a morally correct action, according the whatever values you and I share.

[Kev0909]

He was living where I live 10 mins walk away, crazy

Walked past, they're searching house and all that jazz.

[stevie harkness]

Now they're saying some of the brave Londoners who tackled the terrorist were prisoners on day release.

[redebreck]

Quite likely this fella thinks he was like those Brits landing on the beaches for the greater good. Not that he'd see them as morally similar, as in his eyes the UK, its history and people as an evil enemy.

If that was the case, why was he living here? One of my arguments for Brexit hs been that people such as this should be deported.
TBH I think our government is too soft on proven terrorists, and unlikely to change any time soon.

[Balinkay]

Now they're saying some of the brave Londoners who tackled the terrorist were prisoners on day release.

Fair play to them.

[RedNoodle]

The gentleman who was killed was one of two people killed by 28-year-old Usman Khan who launched the attack at a Cambridge University conference on prisoner rehabilitation.

Rehabilitation and left leaning policies do not work when it comes to both stopping and punishing people like these and criminals in general. Firstly stop as many nutters/criminals as possible from entering the country, and secondly punish criminals adequately i.e. 'permanent removal from society' (one way or the other) for serious/repeat offenders, whilst other criminals should be incarcerated in a harsh/non comfortable enviroment i.e. basic meals, no tv or leisure activities, only educational and 'human/personal growth' activities.

[Kev0909]

Why the fuck was he allowed to live in my town, and come shopping where I work?

Baffling

[ianlfc]

Why the fuck was he allowed to live in my town, and come shopping where I work?

Baffling

They were probably trying to bring a better of class of people to the area 😃😃

[fagin]

The gentleman who was killed was one of two people killed by 28-year-old Usman Khan who launched the attack at a Cambridge University conference on prisoner rehabilitation.

Rehabilitation and left leaning policies do not work when it comes to both stopping and punishing people like these and criminals in general. Firstly stop as many nutters/criminals as possible from entering the country, and secondly punish criminals adequately i.e. 'permanent removal from society' (one way or the other) for serious/repeat offenders, whilst other criminals should be incarcerated in a harsh/non comfortable enviroment i.e. basic meals, no tv or leisure activities, only educational and 'human/personal growth' activities.

If i am reading your post correctly i'd say whichever Government comes to power in the GE the Death Penalty needs to be re-visited and voted on.
Re-habilitation isn't working and for the most part is only in place for all the bleeding hearts out there in society that cannot face the Fact that many Murderers or Terrorists are beyond the re-hab process.