The Steveo and Taksin Borefest Show

[justincredible]

Right lads. Keep your quarrelling contained in this thread please. You are both guilty of contaminating the other threads on the forum for quite some time now with your constant bickering.
Knock yourselves out.....

[Balinkay]

Cue this becoming the most viewed and interesting thread on the forum.

[justme]

https://www.acouplecooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Stovetop-Popcorn-002.jpg

Let it begin

[justincredible]

https://www.acouplecooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Stovetop-Popcorn-002.jpg

Let it begin

Mmmmmm, now I'm hungry.

[CCTV]

Kind of wish Kylian was on here arguing with me, but we all know why he ain't :)

[southernboy]

I genuinely don't know how people find the time for it.

[Steveo]

I genuinely don't know how people find the time for it.

A very good point... probably shared by my wife & both kids..

[justincredible]

A very good point... probably shared by my wife & both kids..

Maybe they're happy with the peace and quiet?

[Steveo]

Maybe they're happy with the peace and quiet?

Yer cheeky sod... :D . But most probably correct.. :eek:

[miller0863]

Hahahahaha I doubt there will be a better post on this thread Justin.

[justincredible]

Hahahahaha I doubt there will be a better post on this thread Justin.

Not if Steveo and Taksin have anything to do with it!:congratulatory:

[Steveo]

Not if Steveo and Taksin have anything to do with it!:congratulatory:

Boom boom - watch out - he's on form today lads..


https://youtu.be/lJsju00-rgM

[Steveo]

Hopefully not too much of a borefest this one..

But just maybe the "back on our perch" comments and glowing endorsements about the club having the bestest owners in the world was a way to get in first before this ridiculous escapade in commercialism was exposed for the fraud that it always was..


https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/sep/26/liverpool-fail-in-attempt-to-trademark-the-word-liverpool-football

[Balinkay]

Reads like they were trying to crack down on knockoff products by trademarking the word Liverpool in a footballing context. The court said it's unnecessary, they moved on.

[Steveo]

Reads like they were trying to crack down on knockoff products by trademarking the word Liverpool in a footballing context. The court said it's unnecessary, they moved on.

Yes to a degree - but there is far more to it than that - it was a crazy and ill-thought-out idea to begin with as Spirit of Shankly stated back in July.. see below..

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/liverpool-is-not-for-trademarking

Thursday 25 July 2019 at 20:19
Spirit of Shankly have been alarmed to learn of club owners FSG’s plans to attempt to copyright the name ‘Liverpool’.

As is the case with such proposals, the devil is in the detail. But due to a lack of transparency and consultation from FSG, their vague statement leaves the case open to huge assumptions. For example, can we now assume that anyone who uses the name Liverpool could face legal action?

Will local football teams be at risk, simply for having ‘Liverpool’ in their name?

For decades, local traders outside of Anfield have sold scarfs, hats, T-shirts etc and for many it’s their sole source of income. Scores of those T-shirts have been, and still are, happily worn by players, past and present. These traders provide a vibrant alternative to the club’s official merchandise and are bought by thousands of fans every matchday. What happens to them? The list goes on.

After a magnificent summer of optimism and celebration for LFC, it is hard to contemplate such a controversial, ill-thought out move by FSG. It is one that will alienate the entire fan base. We, along with all fans, cherish our independent traders. They add so much to our fan culture and atmosphere – and therefore the club’s success.

SOS strongly oppose the blatant monetisation of our football heritage. But this is about more than LFC. This is about Liverpool. The name is not FSG’s to own, it is the name of our city, it is owned by its people.

This must be stopped.

[Balinkay]

That then reads like they tried to generate more revenue without really communicating to the fanbase what their idea is. Which naturally made fans scared that the club would (perhaps inadvertently, but let's face it, probably not) kill some local business in the name of larger profits.

It reflects poorly on their ability to communicate with the fans, just like the ticket price debacle of a few years ago. I'm sure that if this had got more attention and the fans had been more stirred up, they'd have backed down as they did with ticket prices back then.

I can't honestly blame them for trying to generate more money using the club's name, that's ultimately how you win things. I can blame them for doing it about as gracefully as a bull in a china shop though.

[Steveo]

They actually tried to trademark the name of the city of Liverpool ( at least in a footballing sense ) not just the club. It was a crazy idea and proof that not everything going on behind the scenes is as AMAZING as some would have you believe. I thought the timing of Moore's silly statement yesterday preceding this was interesting..

Doesn't have much bearing on what happens on the field of play but I thought it might add something to the"borefest"..

[Taksin]

They actually tried to trademark the name of the city of Liverpool ( at least in a footballing sense ) not just the club. It was a crazy idea and proof that not everything going on behind the scenes is as AMAZING as some would have you believe. I thought the timing of Moore's silly statement yesterday preceding this was interesting..

Doesn't have much bearing on what happens on the field of play but I thought it might add something to the"borefest"..

It adds a huge amount, especially for those of us who thought everything going on behind the scenes was AMAZING

[Balinkay]

@steveo

They tried to trademark the name of the football club they own and run. They're not doing it to profit off the global clout of Liverpool the city. It just so happens the founders of the club weren't hugely creative when it came to naming the new club. :D

Monetising your international brand is in no way a crazy idea.

As I said, the only poor taste this leaves in my mouth is the failure to properly communicate with fans. If anything, it suggests the club is being run even better than some of us think, as apparently even such unorthodox revenue streams are being explored. Dog eat dog world and all that…

[Aldo1988]

If it stops people selling half-half scarves then I'm on the clubs side (saying that, they probably sell them in the club shop).

[Steveo]

@steveo

They tried to trademark the name of the football club they own and run. They're not doing it to profit off the global clout of Liverpool the city. It just so happens the founders of the club weren't hugely creative when it came to naming the new club. :D

Monetising your international brand is in no way a crazy idea.

As I said, the only poor taste this leaves in my mouth is the failure to properly communicate with fans. If anything, it suggests the club is being run even better than some of us think, as apparently even such unorthodox revenue streams are being explored. Dog eat dog world and all that…

I don’t agree at all sorry.

To try and trademark the name of a City is utter madness and delusional.

Also exploring all avenues of income does not make a well run club IMO - some things are not for sale... Surely? Or are we all rabid capitalists looking to maximise every penny regardless of the impact.?

That does not and will NEVER fit with the socialist principles Shankly laid down. As the foundation of this club.

[Steveo]

If it stops people selling half-half scarves then I'm on the clubs side (saying that, they probably sell them in the club shop).

Well - I have to agree on the half half scarf.. What a bad joke that is..

They are an absolute embarrassment to anyone wearing them...

[CCTV]

They actually tried to trademark the name of the city of Liverpool ( at least in a footballing sense ) not just the club. It was a crazy idea and proof that not everything going on behind the scenes is as AMAZING as some would have you believe. I thought the timing of Moore's silly statement yesterday preceding this was interesting..

Doesn't have much bearing on what happens on the field of play but I thought it might add something to the"borefest"..

Though I read both pieces, I find them a little confused.
What did sos do exactly ? Did they make representations to the arbitrating body ? Did they raise awareness?

They seem to make a few odd statements. They value their traders, yet lfc already have enough brand protection to combat copyright infringement, while they wore a load of unofficial tack with the clubs logo on it in protest. Obviously lfc have a different opinion.

They talk about the increasingly corporate influence. I gather ye'd like more season tickets and cheaper matchday tickets, but football is big business. The corporate boxes seem to attract better brand partners, increase revenue and allow people to splurge on a ticket to get to a game they might not otherwise be able to get to, this increase inclusivity :) at a price. I complain about their relatively low net spend, but I think we'll see Mbappe 2020. Will this be a case for criticism ?
As you have said before a new or redeveloped stadium is a must, new stand done, training complex on course for Kylians arrival and thereafter back to the stadium.

Klopp always calls us Liverpool, will he now have to call us Liverpool FC the whole time to distinguish between the club and city, to drive brand recognition and avoid potential litigation from the city council or corporation ?

Not sure what services were involved, are they looking to take down lfc online?
On the merchandise I can imagine they lose a fair bit to unofficial tack. Maybe traders could revise their pricing structure and provide redeemable coupons to customers. Say £2, 1 goes to the lfc charity and 1 to the club, with the unofficial tack giving no liability to the club.

Fsg/JWH are the owners of lfc, they act as lfc and in its interests. Is there a growing resentment of the owners around the city and fanbase against the perceived increasing corporate influences?

Adding to the borefest out of ignorance :D

[Balinkay]

I don’t agree at all sorry.

To try and trademark the name of a City is utter madness and delusional.

Also exploring all avenues of income does not make a well run club IMO - some things are not for sale... Surely? Or are we all rabid capitalists looking to maximise every penny regardless of the impact.?

That does not and will NEVER fit with the socialist principles Shankly laid down. As the foundation of this club.

Trademarking the name of the city is delusional? Tell that to the likes of Budweiser beer! And as specifically stated numerous times, the idea was to trademark it in the context of football. This is the corporate world.

I'm not saying I agree with them, on the contrary - I'm on you on this one. But I'll be damned if I'm not happy that we've go owners who are ready to try out anything. If they see pushback from the fans and realise they went too far, they back down - as with the ticket prices.

I agree some things should not be sold, but everything, and I mean everything, is for sale. If the fans are okay with it, why not use it to make more money? In this case the fans weren't okay with it (and I wouldn't be surprised FSG deliberately hid this, because they knew the fans would be against it).

This is also in no way evidence to suggest the club isn't being run well. It's just not being run the way you want.

And socialist principles? Mate we've got a grooming sponsor. What principles?

[Balinkay]

Well - I have to agree on the half half scarf.. What a bad joke that is..

They are an absolute embarrassment to anyone wearing them...

I don't actually mind them for big away games - cool to have some sort of memorabilia. I think I got a half and half scarf from the final v Sevilla.

Still wear my actual LFC one exclusively though. :D

[Steveo]

Trademarking the name of the city is delusional? Tell that to the likes of Budweiser beer! And as specifically stated numerous times, the idea was to trademark it in the context of football. This is the corporate world.

I'm not saying I agree with them, on the contrary - I'm on you on this one. But I'll be damned if I'm not happy that we've go owners who are ready to try out anything. If they see pushback from the fans and realise they went too far, they back down - as with the ticket prices.

I agree some things should not be sold, but everything, and I mean everything, is for sale. If the fans are okay with it, why not use it to make more money? In this case the fans weren't okay with it (and I wouldn't be surprised FSG deliberately hid this, because they knew the fans would be against it).

This is also in no way evidence to suggest the club isn't being run well. It's just not being run the way you want.

And socialist principles? Mate we've got a grooming sponsor. What principles?

Yep Budweiser - good point.. fuckin Yanks - stole the name of a Czech City and passed it off as an original - only in America.. still today most people think of that beer and see the US branding - without knowledge of its roots..

I am probably old fashioned but I hope that not everything is for sale - though it seemingly is.

[RedNoodle]

Yep Budweiser - good point.. fuckin Yanks - stole the name of a Czech City and passed it off as an original - only in America.. still today most people think of that beer and see the US branding - without knowledge of its roots..

I am probably old fashioned but I hope that not everything is for sale - though it seemingly is.

There was a good story I heard earlier about some fishermen who caught a bluefin tuna worth £2.7m, but instead of selling it they tagged it and then released it. Unfortunately things like that are all too rare with more people than ever willing to "sell their grandmothers" if it makes them a bit of money.

[Steveo]

Off west Cork... Great place.. Good for them.

[Balinkay]

Indeed guys - it's a dog eat dog world out there. Sometimes it depresses even a hugely greedy and narcissistic piece of shite like me.

[justincredible]

Off west Cork... Great place.. Good for them.

West Cork is truly amazing, so beautiful.

[Balinkay]

Wine must be good too. You know, with the locally sourced packaging. :D

[ianlfc]

There was a good story I heard earlier about some fishermen who caught a bluefin tuna worth £2.7m, but instead of selling it they tagged it and then released it. Unfortunately things like that are all too rare with more people than ever willing to "sell their grandmothers" if it makes them a bit of money.

£2.7 million ? In the words of the Perma tanned one " FAKE NEWS "

[justincredible]

£2.7 million ? In the words of the Perma tanned one " FAKE NEWS "

When did Brendan say that?

[RedNoodle]

£2.7 million ? In the words of the Perma tanned one " FAKE NEWS "

In this cynical world in which we live that is both a distinct possibility and the default view of many, possibly even myself. I would however like to think that things like this do happen every now and then. If we truely believe that we have reached a point where such altruistic acts never occur then we may as well just throw in the towel here and now.

[Steveo]

More praise for our Jurgen...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7509081/Ralf-Rangnick-insists-Liverpool-boss-worked-wonders-players-arriving-Anfield.html

“Rangnick pointed to the performances of Englishmen James Milner and Jordan Henderson as evidence of Klopp's good work, as well as the change in mindset of star attacking trio Sadio Mane, Mohamed Salah and Roberto Firmino.

'If you look at Jordan Henderson or James Milner before Klopp they were totally average,' he said.

'The fact that they have now become such players is entirely up to their manager. Sadio Mané, Mohamed Salah and Roberto Firmino were, until three or four years ago, everything other than typical pressing strikers.

'They just wanted to have the ball and play with it. The fact that they have grown together at Liverpool is all down to Jürgen Klopp.'”

[southernboy]

Henderson has definitely improved under Klopp, but I personally feel Milner is pretty much the same as he’s always been.

[Steveo]

Not sure about that - he came on a free and couldn’t find a place in a weaker City lineup than they have now. The Milner we have seen these last 2-3 seasons especially would not have been allowed to depart like that - and would have had much more game time. He was pretty average for a while for us too. He was always solid - but Klopp has improved him IMO,.

[Balinkay]

Disagree, Milner was offered something like 200kpw to stay at City, but he wanted to play centrally iirc.

Wasn't Hendo playing as a DM even before Klopp arrived? If so, I'd argue he didn't make a huge jump up until he was moved to his preferred position.

[Aldo1988]

Disagree, Milner was offered something like 200kpw to stay at City, but he wanted to play centrally iirc.

Wasn't Hendo playing as a DM even before Klopp arrived? If so, I'd argue he didn't make a huge jump up until he was moved to his preferred position.

I think when he left City he was quoted as saying "Fuck City, I want to win the Champions League", don't quote me on that.

[justincredible]

I think when he left City he was quoted as saying "Fuck City, I want to win the Champions League", don't quote me on that.

Quoted! Fact!

[Balinkay]

Quoted! Fact!

Do you work in the media by any chance mate?

[justincredible]

Do you work in the media by any chance mate?

Good hunch there Bali pal. I do indeed. The tabloids, page 3 mostly.

[Steveo]

Disagree, Milner was offered something like 200kpw to stay at City, but he wanted to play centrally iirc.

Wasn't Hendo playing as a DM even before Klopp arrived? If so, I'd argue he didn't make a huge jump up until he was moved to his preferred position.

Right to a degree but it was more that he wanted to play. He wasn't getting nearly enough of the big games.

“I had a lot of conversations with the hierarchy at City and they never said a bad word about me. It was just their opinions on where I fitted in. They saw me as a big part of the club. However, when it came to getting to finals, and things like that, the default was for me not to play.

“That was the way it is and I want to play as much as I can and look back on my career.

“I could have easily stayed at City and been there another four or five years, being around the club, helping us win things. But over the next few years I wouldn’t have played as much and my game time would have reduced.”

James Milner..


He was always a very solid and dependable player to be fair, but Klopp has made him so much more. At times over the last few seasons he has been the one of the cornerstones of our success.


As we have all seen over the last 3/4 years... IF you want to play in a Klopp team you have to do 2 things ... 1 - work harder than you ever have before...

and 2 - consistently strive to improve...

[Balinkay]

That is a good point about playing in finals.

I just don't think he's hugely improved since coming here. I can't see it. He's been the very professional, very good player he's been for the majority of his career, as you say.

What aspects do you think have improved dramatically?

[Steveo]

I can only judge from when he arrived at Anfield - and his game was fairly ordinary in all departments. I saw plenty of wayward passing and a lack of quality on the ball. He would try to make runs but often concede possession.

His approach has become more pragmatic. Perhaps he has focussed on his core strengths. Physically strong, stamina to burn and coupled to his powerful, accurate shot...he has often been the key ingredient in results that could easily have gone against us.. That level of leadership is perhaps the most noticeable area of improvement.

Just watch him play in 2017/18 and compare to 2015.. He is 33 remember 34 in January.. so his game should really have been on the wane - yet the opposite is true.


“Millie is like wine, I like this idea as well. A very good red one. I’m not sure if Leeds is famous for wine? He’s getting better. I think Millie should buy all of the newspapers and read this.

Jurgen Klopp . Sunday 4 November 2018

[Balinkay]

I don't see it that way - he was always good at keeping possession, a calming influence in the middle of the park.

The lack of quality on the ball is a complete mystery to me - his crossing has always been excellent and his ability to get past a man… well he's the stereotypical English player, so he's not going to be great at that. :D

And again, I don't dispute he's been important for us, just the idea that he's become important for us of late or that he's somehow become a much better player at the age of 32. He came in and started playing plenty of games and influencing them greatly from day one.


Klopp's comments are great to hear, but that was a year ago, when Millie might have been going through a patch of great form for example.

[Steveo]

Fair points. I would agree it’s not like he was bog standard on arrival and is now a world beater.. But I always thought of him as an average Joe in 2015 - I would never have put those words anywhere near him in the last 2/3 years.. But might just be a overall improvement in the team that has painted that picture in my mind.

[Balinkay]

Could be, yeah. No doubt you look better when playing for a better side (usually). No denying he's been instrumental in that improvement though and an excellent piece of business. Very shrewd acquisition.

[red4life86]

Good hunch there Bali pal. I do indeed. The tabloids, page 3 mostly.

How many times Justin????

Hiding in bushes taking long range photos of unsuspecting women DOES NOT constitute working for page 3!!!

[justincredible]

How many times Justin????

Hiding in bushes taking long range photos of unsuspecting women DOES NOT constitute working for page 3!!!

Speaking of lurking.....

[justincredible]

:fox:

[Kev0909]

Stevo is a smart idiot:cower:, thoughts?

[Steveo]

Stevo is a smart idiot:cower:, thoughts?

A smart idiot?? Hmm - now what on earth could that be?

One thing is for certain - only a thick idiot would struggle to get that extra e in before the o.. no offence Kev... :D

[Nineteenx]

Wasn't Hendo playing as a DM even before Klopp arrived? If so, I'd argue he didn't make a huge jump up until he was moved to his preferred position.

No Hendo played as RM or RCM prior to Jurgen arriving

[Taksin]

Jose Mourinho has been weighing in on the Taksin and Steveo borefest - he couldn't resist having his say on whether the club is being well run or wether its all down to the manager. Turns out he agrees with Taksin, even tough the lfconline contributor has been exposed as being desperate on numerous occasions. See what you think;


Jose Mourinho says the structure of Liverpool and Manchester City is the reason the two clubs are streets ahead of their rivals.

Pep Guardiola's Citizens have won back to back Premier League titles and until this season have looked capable of dominating English football indefinitely.

Jurgen Klopp's Reds, meanwhile, tasted Champions League success last season and are in the driving seat to finish first this campaign.

Mourinho has praised the "harmony" at the two clubs, saying there is chemistry between them that stems from the owner to the players, with everyone on the same page working towards the same goal.

"I think the structure of the clubs," Mourinho told The Telegraph.

"When you look at City, for example: the owner, Ferran Soriano [chief executive], Txiki Begiristain [director of football], Pep Guardiola, Pep's staff and then the players.

"This looks like harmony, empathy, chemistry, quality, sharing the same project, sharing the same ideas.

"Liverpool? I also think that Jurgen [Klopp] is in a good position. He is very stable.

"I think he has control of his 'areas'. He is supported by people who think the same way, the structure of the club."

[Balinkay]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/029/223/cover2.jpg

[CCTV]

Jose Mourinho has been weighing in on the Taksin and Steveo borefest - he couldn't resist having his say on whether the club is being well run or wether its all down to the manager. Turns out he agrees with Taksin, even tough the lfconline contributor has been exposed as being desperate on numerous occasions. See what you think;


Jose Mourinho says the structure of Liverpool and Manchester City is the reason the two clubs are streets ahead of their rivals.

Pep Guardiola's Citizens have won back to back Premier League titles and until this season have looked capable of dominating English football indefinitely.

Jurgen Klopp's Reds, meanwhile, tasted Champions League success last season and are in the driving seat to finish first this campaign.

Mourinho has praised the "harmony" at the two clubs, saying there is chemistry between them that stems from the owner to the players, with everyone on the same page working towards the same goal.

"I think the structure of the clubs," Mourinho told The Telegraph.

"When you look at City, for example: the owner, Ferran Soriano [chief executive], Txiki Begiristain [director of football], Pep Guardiola, Pep's staff and then the players.

"This looks like harmony, empathy, chemistry, quality, sharing the same project, sharing the same ideas.

"Liverpool? I also think that Jurgen [Klopp] is in a good position. He is very stable.

"I think he has control of his 'areas'. He is supported by people who think the same way, the structure of the club."

Where the fook have you been ? You left me hanging in the Mbappe thread. Lucky for you I've fought the greatest fight ever with desire, detail, facts and logic....

To put city on the same page as Lfc in these terms is an utter joke. Maybe he's trolling pep ?

They've spent a vast fortune on players, while pep inherited an arguably better squad.
Lfc since Klopp arrived are now 11th in the pl net spend table.

Their fan culture, really, a pitiful lot compared to Lfc's.
They boo the cl anthem and cant be arsed turning up for games at times.
Their infamous chant/song the distasteful and classless battered in the streets, led by mr feels and sjw sterling.

It's interesting that Jose the authority Mourinho name checks city staff, but not LFC, which could be interpreted as pointing to how much more important Klopp is to lfc than pep to city.

But that would undermine the great work and marked improvement of our staff: Edwards, Jwh, Moore & Co since Klopps arrived and driven the club forward.

Let's check some facts....
Pellegrini got to a cl semi-final, peps not got past the quarters in 3 attempts.
Lfc have shown unbelievable fortitude in staging memorable night and the greatest comebacks.
The club has capitalised on Klopps achievements and grown revenue markedly as a result of our on field results.

What Klopp has done compared with pep? It's just 'outstanding' and different 'levels' brawh

[Steveo]

He went to get some mustard.. :D

[Taksin]

Where the fook have you been ? You left me hanging in the Mbappe thread. Lucky for you I've fought the greatest fight ever with desire, detail, facts and logic....



Mate, if you needed me on the Mbappé thread all you had to do was PM me and I would have been there, fighting the fight

[Taksin]

They've spent a vast fortune on players, while pep inherited an arguably better squad.
Lfc since Klopp arrived are now 11th in the pl net spend table.




But this is the entire debate.

What you see is net spend numbers. What Jose sees is a club that is investing properly in its squad and a manager that gets the players he needs at the time that he feels he needs them.

What Steveo sees is an ownership that is interested only in what it can extract from the club and which would be embarrassed by it’s under investment if Klopp left. What Jose sees is a club that is building the right structure and culture for any top manager to succeed in.

I wonder if Steveo still wishes we were as well run as Tottenham or, well, he never did give a second example of a better run club but Tottenham were definitely, unequivocally and obviously being better run. That much he stated on a few occasions.

He may be right but I wonder how both of you would feel we would do if, in the hypothetical event of Klopp leaving tomorrow, we appointed Pochettino? Anyone think he might do better here than he did at Spurs?

[Steveo]

But this is the entire debate.

What you see is net spend numbers. What Jose sees is a club that is investing properly in its squad and a manager that gets the players he needs at the time that he feels he needs them.

What Steveo sees is an ownership that is interested only in what it can extract from the club and which would be embarrassed by it’s under investment if Klopp left. What Jose sees is a club that is building the right structure and culture for any top manager to succeed in.

I wonder if Steveo still wishes we were as well run as Tottenham or, well, he never did give a second example of a better run club but Tottenham were definitely, unequivocally and obviously being better run. That much he stated on a few occasions.

He may be right but I wonder how both of you would feel we would do if, in the hypothetical event of Klopp leaving tomorrow, we appointed Pochettino? Anyone think he might do better here than he did at Spurs?



I personally just wish you could see past the complete and utter tripe you post.. The never ending drivel based on what you believe has been said eons ago.

That would be a great start..

[red4life86]

Missed the response to a perfectly reasonable and politely worded question there.

In my opinion he would do better than at Spurs, but less well than Klopp has done. His sacking was a joke. CL finalists just 6 months ago.

As an aside, anyone know any Spurs fans and their thoughts on it? They are a best a bunch of entitled cretins but even they must think it’s a bit harsh?

[Taksin]

I personally just wish you could see past the complete and utter tripe you post.. The never ending drivel based on what you believe has been said eons ago.

That would be a great start..

Perhaps some introspection of your own is in order, Steveo.
It’s a strange wish you have for me to imagine you didn’t say you thought Tottenham are being better run than LFC, when you did say those things. I wasn’t eavesdropping either. I asked you outright and that was your answer. You are still waxing lyrical about their set up on the Pochettino Mourinho thread so it’s not like those opinions of yours are out of character.
It’s possible you are right - I mean they seem to be doing something right. They’ve gone up in the world somewhat. So have we - even more than them. But you were saying we are doing something wrong and you were specific about what that was. That’s what I pulled you up on.
Calling me deceptive when I point his out is a bit rich. I’m keeping the argument on track. I have what you said correct. If you no longer hold those views, just say it and it’s all over, rather than calling me a liar.

[Taksin]

Missed the response to a perfectly reasonable and politely worded question there.

In my opinion he would do better than at Spurs, but less well than Klopp has done. His sacking was a joke. CL finalists just 6 months ago.

As an aside, anyone know any Spurs fans and their thoughts on it? They are a best a bunch of entitled cretins but even they must think it’s a bit harsh?

I don’t think he’s as good a manager as Klopp either but I think he’s good enough to do really well at Anfield.
Presumably he would have some advantages over Klopp, whatever they might turn out to be. But I don’t see the set up holding him back. The last few months have shed some doubts on how well Tottenham are being run. Something doesn’t look right to me or to my Spurs mates. It will be interesting to see how well he does elsewhere.
The irony for this thread is that Mourinho obviously thinks things look good there, unless he’s a mercenary, which I doubt. He said something about the team and squad being already in place in his interview yesterday, which sounded like he may have been told not to expect too much from transfers.

[Steveo]

Perhaps some introspection of your own is in order, Steveo.
It’s a strange wish you have for me to imagine you didn’t say you thought Tottenham are being better run than LFC, when you did say those things. I wasn’t eavesdropping either. I asked you outright and that was your answer. You are still waxing lyrical about their set up on the Pochettino Mourinho thread so it’s not like those opinions of yours are out of character.
It’s possible you are right - I mean they seem to be doing something right. They’ve gone up in the world somewhat. So have we - even more than them. But you were saying we are doing something wrong and you were specific about what that was. That’s what I pulled you up on.
Calling me deceptive when I point his out is a bit rich. I’m keeping the argument on track. I have what you said correct. If you no longer hold those views, just say it and it’s all over, rather than calling me a liar.

No - I suggested that on the issue of the stadium they have done a much better job. Which is quite an obvious reality...turning a 36,000 WHL into a 62,000 WHL.

Also in relation to the owners I did state that IF the standard of running a club is judged by how much bang you get for your buck ( which I don’t BTW but you used to cite our owners quality on that score ) then Spurs are one of the best run clubs on the planet!

You can try to twist it anyway you like but that is the way it is.

They have finished higher than us in how many of the last 10 seasons? They were one game away from being Cbampions of Europe this June too. So bad though they have been this last 9 months - I believe a little perspective is needed .

Let’s be quite clear - if Klopp goes to spurs instead of Pochettino - I dread to think what things would look like. .

[Balinkay]

By the same token you have to say LFC were a Karius concussion and not-letting-in-a-goal after ten seconds away from having three European trophies under their belt.

Not to mention 11 mm from a PL title and a penalty shoot out away from another league cup.

[Steveo]

Absolutely.

As Jimmy Greaves once said “it’s a funny old game...”

Have to say though - I do not believe Pochettino is in Klopp’s class. Not convinced anyone is..

[Taksin]

No - I suggested that on the issue of the stadium they have done a much better job. Which is quite an obvious reality...turning a 36,000 WHL into a 62,000 WHL.

Also in relation to the owners I did state that IF the standard of running a club is judged by how much bang you get for your buck ( which I don’t BTW but you used to cite our owners quality on that score ) then Spurs are one of the best run clubs on the planet!

You can try to twist it anyway you like but that is the way it is.

They have finished higher than us in how many of the last 10 seasons? They were one game away from being Cbampions of Europe this June too. So bad though they have been this last 9 months - I believe a little perspective is needed .

Let’s be quite clear - if Klopp goes to spurs instead of Pochettino - I dread to think what things would look like. .

You even contradict yourself in your own defence. That’s why I started pulling you up on your conspiracy diatribes all those months ago. Ignore for now that refuse to admit you were asked who you thought was doing a better job and you answered with ease and confidence.

Above you claim you were only referring to the stadium and to the product from spend (which doesn’t seem right as you’re always going on about our underspend)

The you say I’m twisting things (yawn)

Then in the next paragraph you start listing the reasons why spurs are actually being really well run, as if that wasn’t part of your argument before.
You are impossible to argue with.

[Steveo]

You even contradict yourself in your own defence. That’s why I started pulling you up on your conspiracy diatribes all those months ago. Ignore for now that refuse to admit you were asked who you thought was doing a better job and you answered with ease and confidence.

Above you claim you were only referring to the stadium and to the product from spend (which doesn’t seem right as you’re always going on about our underspend)

The you say I’m twisting things (yawn)

Then in the next paragraph you start listing the reasons why spurs are actually being really well run, as if that wasn’t part of your argument before.
You are impossible to argue with.

But Spurs are well run you complete filth. Where did I say they weren't and where did I also say they were better run than us..

This is what you do - you read what you imagine from my words rather than actually reading them in the literal sense.

If I say that Canada is a vast land mass does that mean the same as saying that Russia isn't?

Do try to keep up old bean.. this is tiresome

[Steveo]

As for how well a club is run - I think plenty is down to luck and circumstance.


Were Arsenal one of the best run clubs in the world when Wenger was at his peak? If so what happened? How about when Fergie nearly got United Relegated? Or when he turned it around and built a dynasty that knocked us off our perch...? Were United suddenly brilliantly run? Did their ownership go to pot when he retired? How about now? Badly run or suffering the hangover of Fergie's legacy?

How about us..? Were we well run before Kenny left us in the early 90's and then badly run as Souness came in until the end of Evans Spice boys? Were we well run again when Houllier won the Treble? and then less so before Rafa won us number 5? Were we fabulously run in 2009 as the top rated side in Europe who should have won number 19? - similar to how we are now?? Then poor again until Rodgers 2014 side etc and etc.. and then again now we are here with Jurgen..

Is this all dictated by how the owners run their ship? Or is it more likely down to the management of the squad and the team on the pitch.. plus some luck...?

[Balinkay]

We were notoriously poorly run in the late 2000's Steveo. The whole "24 hours from administration" wasn't actually bollocks. The club wasn't making enough money and we had more debt than we should have. That's the reason FSG got us on the cheap.

Though they had to circumnavigate said debt.

[Steveo]

Seriously Bali I am well aware of this and was as desperate as ANYONE that they were removed..!

[Taksin]

As for how well a club is run - I think plenty is down to luck and circumstance.


Were Arsenal one of the best run clubs in the world when Wenger was at his peak? If so what happened? How about when Fergie nearly got United Relegated? Or when he turned it around and built a dynasty that knocked us off our perch...? Were United suddenly brilliantly run? Did their ownership go to pot when he retired? How about now? Badly run or suffering the hangover of Fergie's legacy?

How about us..? Were we well run before Kenny left us in the early 90's and then badly run as Souness came in until the end of Evans Spice boys? Were we well run again when Houllier won the Treble? and then less so before Rafa won us number 5? Were we fabulously run in 2009 as the top rated side in Europe who should have won number 19? - similar to how we are now?? Then poor again until Rodgers 2014 side etc and etc.. and then again now we are here with Jurgen..



An interesting set of questions. I have some opinions in response as I’m sure you do, although I note you now believe much of it is down to luck. A new tact you’re taking as this late stage. Previously you believed is was all down to Klopp.

At an earlier stage you were saying this club is being badly run compared to, oh, I don’t know, Spurs. How do we know those were your views? Because you wrote them down. You complained that FSG were not doing a good job in a knowing manner - as if it was obvious. I asked you to name a club that was better run. Your answer was ‘Spurs’ and you had your reasons for that belief. You wrote them down for us all to read.

None of that is controversial. What is bewilderingly strange is that you now see it as some kind of slight upon you that I bring up these simple facts. I’m not bringing them up to make you look stupid, I’m bringing them up because they form the basis of the discussion that we could be having. But we can’t have that discussion because we can’t establish what you actually think.

[Steveo]

An interesting set of questions. I have some opinions in response as I’m sure you do, although I note you now believe much of it is down to luck. A new tact you’re taking as this late stage. Previously you believed is was all down to Klopp.

At an earlier stage you were saying this club is being badly run compared to, oh, I don’t know, Spurs. How do we know those were your views? Because you wrote them down. You complained that FSG were not doing a good job in a knowing manner - as if it was obvious. I asked you to name a club that was better run. Your answer was ‘Spurs’ and you had your reasons for that belief. You wrote them down for us all to read.

None of that is controversial. What is bewilderingly strange is that you now see it as some kind of slight upon you that I bring up these simple facts. I’m not bringing them up to make you look stupid, I’m bringing them up because they form the basis of the discussion that we could be having. But we can’t have that discussion because we can’t establish what you actually think.

Where is the change of tact? Inside your rock of a head?

You are inventing stories again Taksin..

I believe our success is in the main down to klopp - and have said so time and time again as you know. You maintain it is down being "well run"..

No manager, nor club, or team wins much without a degree of luck and this is a well documented stance so stop trying to be a smart Alec just because I hurt your Uncle's Tom & John when I mentioned just how much of a steal they bought this club for.

Regarding the stadium - IMO FSG have done the BARE MINIMUM and have taken far too long to add a paltry 8,500 seats - mainly corporate too. This is my view - sorry if it offends Uncle's Tom/John. Seriosuly get over it - they bought us and built a stand ALL for less than £310 million ( including a £110 interest free loan from them ) - that much is fact..!

"bewilderingly strange" Good wordage - what you describe as fact is in fact your failing memory - which isn't the same thing Taksin - you do see that don't you..?


For me the owners are there to acquire the players the manager wants and to do what is best for the long term future of the club. Until Anfield is at least the size that Parry and Moores said was the bare minimum back in 2005/6 when they realised we needed more to compete... I will call out the owners failure in this regard.

Nothing to do with how well run we are or how well run Spurs are Taksin that is your own issue to resolve.


When push comes to shove - the crux of this is your IMO whacko belief in the fact that we as a club would be where we are regardless of whether Jurgen was here or not.

I do not believe that for one second. I would also add that we probably owe as much to Jurgen's Wife for him being here and us enjoying his great work - as we we do our owners. The best thing they ever did was nab our Black Forrest Jurgen... And that is the end of the matter


I didn't catch any of your answers BTW.. :D

[Taksin]

I believe our success is in the main down to klopp - and have said so time and time again as you know. You maintain it is down being "well run"..


No I don't, as we have in fact discussed. I think Klopp is a genius and ideally suited to this club. That's what I have said, clearly and on numerous occasions. That you can't follow basic stuff like this is why we are still going through all this crap.
I think the club is well run and I agree with Jose Mourinho that the set up is what has given Klopp the platform. If you'd care to argue against that point, which you have disagreed with historically, then we would be conversing about something.



just because I hurt your Uncle's Tom & John when I mentioned just how much of a steal they bought this club for


There's something creepy about the way you do this. It's as if you have to imagine some kind of weird emotional obsession I have towards the owners, whom I know almost nothing about personally. Perhaps it's a projection of some kind because I don't believe I've ever said anything sycophantic about them.
It also reveals a little of your animus towards them - by implication it would be pathetic for anyone to like them. Why is that? Could it be because you have an irrational hatred towards them, something I've been trying to clarify for quite some time..



Regarding the stadium - IMO FSG have done the BARE MINIMUM and have taken far too long to add a paltry 8,500 seats - mainly corporate too. This is my view - sorry if it offends Uncle's Tom/John. Seriosuly get over it - they bought us and built a stand ALL for less than £310 million ( including a £110 interest free loan from them ) - that much is fact..!


I don't care what you think about the stadium. I care what you think about the owners, because your animosity towards them interests me.
I think we have the best stadium in the league. I love it. I'm sure it will grow larger and I'm glad we have the owners who seem likely to do that in a way that is sensitive to what we have and in a way that doesn't disrupt our football too much.
If I wanted a shiny stadium I'd support Spurs or Arsenal. But I want a great team, so I am really happy at the moment. Why you were so unhappy with the owners was the reason I started interacting with you.



"bewilderingly strange" Good wordage - what you describe as fact is in fact your failing memory - which isn't the same thing Taksin - you do see that don't you..?


? No, Sorry, you're talking to yourself here



For me the owners are there to acquire the players the manager wants and to do what is best for the long term future of the club. Until Anfield is at least the size that Parry and Moores said was the bare minimum back in 2005/6 when they realised we needed more to compete... I will call out the owners failure in this regard.


So they ARE failures. Great. Good for you, lad!



Nothing to do with how well run we are or how well run Spurs are Taksin that is your own issue to resolve.


Not for me to resolve. I think we are well run and better run than Spurs. I know what I think. I could be wrong, but I'm not confused.



When push comes to shove - the crux of this is your IMO whacko belief in the fact that we as a club would be where we are regardless of whether Jurgen was here or not.


Although I don't believe this and never have, so it's a strange thing to say.



I didn't catch any of your answers BTW.. :D


I think trying to iron out one simple controversy has proved difficult enough. I'll leave it at that thanks. And that will do for now on the borefest. Best wishes to you, Steveo. If you want to call me a liar and stupid and all that in response to this post, the floor is yours. You win.

[Balinkay]

Seriously Bali I am well aware of this and was as desperate as ANYONE that they were removed..!

Yes, of course. I was a little confused as to what point you were trying to make and how this supported it.

[Steveo]

Yes, of course. I was a little confused as to what point you were trying to make and how this supported it.


I was putting the question out there for discussion - looking back over time Arsenal - United and Us as examples -

Are the successful periods and bad periods down to being ‘well Or badly run’ or are they - as I believe more down to the manager, an at times a bit of luck - stars aligning etc.

Let’s face it if Robbins doesn’t score that FA Cup goal Fergie likely loses his job and history is very different. You might be a little young to remember that be honest

[Steveo]

@Taksin

I have concluded that you are beyond help - possibly living in a barn....and who hangs on Mourinho’s every word.

A Special case for The Special one...

[eggy81]

We are better ehn than spurs.

[Balinkay]

I was putting the question out there for discussion - looking back over time Arsenal - United and Us as examples -

Are the successful periods and bad periods down to being ‘well Or badly run’ or are they - as I believe more down to the manager, an at times a bit of luck - stars aligning etc.

Let’s face it if Robbins doesn’t score that FA Cup goal Fergie likely loses his job and history is very different. You might be a little young to remember that be honest

How well a club is run isn't assessed over a year or two, but rather five or ten. The wheels would have come off in 2009 even if we'd won the league. One of the aspects of being well run is the club not falling apart when the results worsen as they inevitably do at some point.

Can't speak to the older examples you gave, I'm too green to remember them. :D

Edit: Look at 2014 - we failed to win the league but the club didn't almost go bust and was able to dish out decent sums of money for player here and there. It's like we've discussed - the real test for FSG comes after this current good run of form and results ends and / or Klopp leaves.

[Steveo]

How well a club is run isn't assessed over a year or two, but rather five or ten. The wheels would have come off in 2009 even if we'd won the league. One of the aspects of being well run is the club not falling apart when the results worsen as they inevitably do at some point.

Can't speak to the older examples you gave, I'm too green to remember them. :D

Edit: Look at 2014 - we failed to win the league but the club didn't almost go bust and was able to dish out decent sums of money for player here and there. It's like we've discussed - the real test for FSG comes after this current good run of form and results ends and / or Klopp leaves.

Yes but we did nearly win that title Bali - we were the best team in the land and arguably on the continent too - certainly rated by UEFA as number 1.

What went before it was not great ownership - certainly not IMO. The cowboys Hicks and Gillette were only at the club just over 3 years and for a few months of that we were owned by RBS and Wachovia banks.

It would be good to look at a few more examples too - As I suggested what about us for the glory years - and post Kenny early 90’s..? Or Arsenal once Wenger arrived and why did it then go sour? Was the club brilliantly run OR did Wenger inherit one of the best defences in the land from George Graham, make some great additions at a time when the English game was behind Europe?

What about United pre Fergie - then post Fergie - was it Fergie or was the club just brilliantly well run?

I think what people often mean when they suggest a club is well run is actually a successful club or at least a club that’s doing well. That can be judged many ways - but I am yet to hear an argument that any behind the scenes magic leads to a genuine football dynasty. You recruit a Shankly and the club becomes epic - then Paisley rises up and you have a dynasty. The Manager gets it right - the fans climb onboard and then with a bit of luck the snowball grows.

[justme]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evyno2kahOc

just to lighten the mood of things in here :tennis:

[CCTV]

But this is the entire debate.

What you see is net spend numbers. What Jose sees is a club that is investing properly in its squad and a manager that gets the players he needs at the time that he feels he needs them.

What Steveo sees is an ownership that is interested only in what it can extract from the club and which would be embarrassed by it’s under investment if Klopp left. What Jose sees is a club that is building the right structure and culture for any top manager to succeed in.

I wonder if Steveo still wishes we were as well run as Tottenham or, well, he never did give a second example of a better run club but Tottenham were definitely, unequivocally and obviously being better run. That much he stated on a few occasions.

He may be right but I wonder how both of you would feel we would do if, in the hypothetical event of Klopp leaving tomorrow, we appointed Pochettino? Anyone think he might do better here than he did at Spurs?

I'm replying to your post and what jose 'sees'. Your reply doesnt seem to be in response to that post.

I'd disagree with Steveo on spurs being a better run club than us, but I think they and us have been the better 2 run clubs of the top6 in recent years. Spurs been seen as well run predates poch and levy has a lot of street credit for spurs. Klopp however seems to be the driving force behind our clubs rejuvenation.
I've posted some rather complimentary threads or posts about our owners and the good work they do.
I do share Steveos view that without Klopps arrival perhaps it wouldn't have been possible.

It's hard to know how poch would do here, thankfully we wont be finding out. But then again this brings us to the debating table about how influential a manager is at a club.

Poch landed at spurs 27th May 2014.
Klopp 8th October 2015.
Poch had a year and a bit, 2 preseasons and 2 summer windows head start on Klopp.
Yet now he leaves spurs in 14th on 14 points, 20 points off first ie Klopp.

Now it would seem poch has been far less succesful in bending the club to his will with regards contracts and transfers within the club.
All speculative but I'd imagine Klopp has used his charm and ability to get everyone on board with him.
It's a key skill of being a manager. You're in charge of the team and essentially are the teams voice when dealing with all other sections of the club. Klopp charms and reasons with the owners, Edward's etc even the fans.

Pochs last away win in the pl was in January, they havent won a pl match in 2months and over their last 25 games are getting about a point a game average which is relegation form.
Now its said he lost the dressing room last season to a point and in the last 2 months has not bothered to oversee and participate in training and watches it from his office. All hearsay. His head was turned by manu/real and imo he left spurs in a distasteful manner having burnt his bridges and what he'd built.
So we have to consider poch did a Jose to get out of town, while that might mitigate their collapse it doesnt mitigate that personality and choice made.
So far that would be a big difference between the two as leaders.

Poch would imo inherit the worlds best
Goalkeeper
Fullbacks
Centreback
DM
Lwf and rwf

That's 7 of the worlds best in our 11, so he'd want to do better. I'm not so sure he would though.

[CCTV]

Yes but we did nearly win that title Bali - we were the best team in the land and arguably on the continent too - certainly rated by UEFA as number 1.

What went before it was not great ownership - certainly not IMO. The cowboys Hicks and Gillette were only at the club just over 3 years and for a few months of that we were owned by RBS and Wachovia banks.

It would be good to look at a few more examples too - As I suggested what about us for the glory years - and post Kenny early 90’s..? Or Arsenal once Wenger arrived and why did it then go sour? Was the club brilliantly run OR did Wenger inherit one of the best defences in the land from George Graham, make some great additions at a time when the English game was behind Europe?

What about United pre Fergie - then post Fergie - was it Fergie or was the club just brilliantly well run?

I think what people often mean when they suggest a club is well run is actually a successful club or at least a club that’s doing well. That can be judged many ways - but I am yet to hear an argument that any behind the scenes magic leads to a genuine football dynasty. You recruit a Shankly and the club becomes epic - then Paisley rises up and you have a dynasty. The Manager gets it right - the fans climb onboard and then with a bit of luck the snowball grows.

They say with fergie it's the chief executive who left at the same time that really killed united.
Maybe their chief executive could see it coming after fergie's reign and the pending arrival of Moyes. Ala Mascherano.

There are lots of sections working away within a club, I think the brc was correct when he used to argue that you start with the manager as the key factor.
At lfc in particular I think it's hard to argue that Klopp hasnt been the key man.
We dont see how the club runs, but it would seem rather coincidental that since Klopp arrived their has been growth and progress in all areas since that date, when the fans were only too delighted to accept Klopp as manager.
As far as I remember there was barely a voice to be heard wondering if we'd have been better off with Carlo Ancelotti taking the job, which was a mark of how Klopp was appraised in suiting the club with the level of investment he'd likely have to work with under our owners.

[dicko1969]

It is all about running a club correctly. On and off the pitch.
From the tea lady, to kit man, to groundsmen.
Getting all the fine margins.
What did klopp do when he first came to the club...

Got everyone to know each other, names, Liverpool is one big family all the staff and fans.

The definition of a well run club.

Man Utd isn't at the moment; owners , players , and whatever else behind the scenes.

[Balinkay]

@Steveo


That can be judged many ways - but I am yet to hear an argument that any behind the scenes magic leads to a genuine football dynasty.

Real Madrid, Chelsea and Barcelona are three examples of clubs that have done exceedingly well under different managers - a dynasty if you will. Just like Liverpool they had a bit of a "dynasty". Naturally such a sequence of good managers has to start somewhere and ours did with Shankly, but when the reigns were passed on the conditions had to be there for the next manager to succeed in a tough situation. They weren't at United, which in my book makes them poorly run in that specific aspect.

The BVB are an example of a club which has done quite well with several different managers because of the structure rather than any individual. Bayern are a great example too - they're basically the Man City of their league, except they've earned their money fair and square. Juventus too. Different managers, same great results.

Arsene surely benefitted from what he inherited, but so did Klopp - his club captain, second captain, centre forward and right back were all already here when he joined and that was four years ago!

[Taksin]

I'd disagree with Steveo on spurs being a better run club than us, but I think they and us have been the better 2 run clubs of the top6 in recent years. Spurs been seen as well run predates poch and levy has a lot of street credit for spurs. Klopp however seems to be the driving force behind our clubs rejuvenation.
I've posted some rather complimentary threads or posts about our owners and the good work they do.
I do share Steveos view that without Klopps arrival perhaps it wouldn't have been possible.



I started picking up Steveo on this because he was banging on about how badly run the club was. The comparison with Spurs was only to tease out what his actual views are.
It’s enjoyable to enter into a discussion about things no one is certain about if there is a generosity of spirit but that is lacking in Steveo’s case. He won’t admit to what he is saying, he won’t work towards an actual point and therefore there is no hope of separating things out into an actual position. Then he makes babyish posts with inane insults like the one above. He’s more focused on not being wrong than having a discussion so it gets nowhere.
Thanks for your efforts but I’m a bit bored of trying to identify what the actual discussion is about at this moment. I’m sure it will crop up again.
I think Jose’s comments are fairly straight forward and true by the way. A nice insight from the perspective of a manager on how success works.

[Steveo]

And I am picking you up on telling porky pies Taksin.

I will continue to use babyish insults for someone who behaves like a child - romancing and bending reality - suggesting someone has said one thing when they simply have not. As I have said before - you tell lies.

At no point did I say we were badly run or that Spurs are better run than us. I stated that on the issue of the stadium - Levi has battered FSG. You wanted to portray our relative small spend v quality return of how well run a club is and I said that - on that score - Spurs are better run .... Who could argue that?

That doesn’t mean I want a shiny new stadium either - always preferred to stay at Anfield PROVIDED it was viable to make Anfield big enough - which it surely is with the will..

In the 15 years since Parry realised that new owners were needed to bring the club in line with its rivals almost 10 of them have been with FSG who have only managed to add 8,500 ( it’s less than that actually )..for a cost of £110 million. That’s a small 45,600 to a slightly bigger 54,074 - making Anfield the seventh largest stadium in England for one of the worlds most successful clubs.. The new main stand is fantastic BTW - I think it is great but we desperately need more seats - lots of them.



Compare with Levi who managed to get planning - design and build in the far more densely populated and vastly more expensive North London - as Stadium costing £1 Billion - 36,000 - 62,000 suck it up..

I assume you have a season ticket - right? So you are alright then... And your view of Anfield as the best stadium in the land is laughable.. The fans inside are the best and what make Anfield special but the building is not even close.

This clearly is a thorn in Your side and leads you to make up stories.

It doesn’t mean they (Spurs) are better run as a club - as a whole - which involves many more aspects than just infrastructure and I would absolutely HATE Levi’s minescule transfer spend - but I also can’t argue that he has got a huge amount of bang from a relatively small outlay...

Let’s also now look at Jose Mourinho. Does the Taksin brain compute enough to understand WHY a loathed rival such as Mourinho might want to blow smoke up our arses? Surely even the most naive of fans could spot the reasoning and the timing..

Thank the good lord for the Borefest thread..

[Balinkay]

Well tbf Spurs have paid 38k per new seat, whereas we paid around 14k by that arithmetic. Their shiny new stadium is less than 8% larger than ours but they've just put nine times the money into it and won't be expanding anytime soon, whereas we seem like we might do just that in the next two years.

[Steveo]

Yes Bali it costs a huge amount to do what they did at crazy London prices - but tight fisted Levy still believed it needed to happen.. Is he mad? Perhaps..

We don’t need to spend anything close to £1 Billion though or even the £400 million spent by Arsenal pre 2004 for the Emirates yet we haven’t done so and we are a far bigger and more successful club than either with a far bigger fan base.

Pretty much anyone who hasn’t got a season ticket or who regularly tries to buy a ticket to watch their club at Anfield will understand the need that is still unfulfilled. .

What we may or may not do in a few years. - it seems - is bring Anfield to 60,000 by finally improving the tiny Anfield road ( Loftus Road I call QPR cause it’s tiny and crammed ) - IF we get the go ahead. It’s better than now mate but it is not enough...!

I couldn’t give a flying feck what it costs the owners BTW unlike some of you lot - who want to do the accounts FFS. are we here to worry about how deep their pockets are?! . What matters is getting more of those die hard And desperate Liverpool fans into that stadium.. It can’t happen quick enough for me - build it already....!

[Taksin]

At no point did I say we were badly run or that Spurs are better run than us. I stated that on the issue of the stadium - Levi has battered FSG. You wanted to portray our relative small spend v quality return of how well run a club is and I said that - on that score - Spurs are better run .... Who could argue that?


You were complaining at length about how the club was being run. How FSG investment wasn't good enough. How our lack of signings this summer were evidence that the owners didn't want to support the manager. How we were going to fall behind just when we should be forging ahead. How they were training the club of cash. How Spurs were really positioning themselves for dominance.
None of this is made up. You expressed these opinions. You famously settled on the concession that FSG do deserve credit for appointing Klopp, but nothing else they'd done was good enough.
Where the lie there? Please tell me which of those you don't or didn't believe. I'm sure some intrepid forumite could go back and find all these views expressed by you. But I can't be arsed.

Who could argue that? I could argue that. But it turned out to be a fruitless argument because the the opponent kept calling me a liar for pointing out what he had said.



In the 15 years since Parry realised that new owners were needed to bring the club in line with its rivals almost 10 of them have been with FSG who have only managed to add 8,500 ( it’s less than that actually )..for a cost of £110 million. That’s a small 45,600 to a slightly bigger 54,074 - making Anfield the seventh largest stadium in England for one of the worlds most successful clubs.. The new main stand is fantastic BTW - I think it is great but we desperately need more seats - lots of them.


Yes, I know you love to complain about this. Before this spectacularly good season started so well, you used to complain about a lot more, which seems a bit unsupportable now, especially with Spurs' progress so unexpectedly bad.



Compare with Levi who managed to get planning - design and build in the far more densely populated and vastly more expensive North London - as Stadium costing £1 Billion - 36,000 - 62,000 suck it up..


Good for Levy. I don't give a shit about their stadium.



This clearly is a thorn in Your side and leads you to make up stories.


Or perhaps the thorn is all yours and you're not very good at admitting you were wrong.



It doesn’t mean they (Spurs) are better run as a club - as a whole - which involves many more aspects than just infrastructure and I would absolutely HATE Levi’s minescule transfer spend - but I also can’t argue that he has got a huge amount of bang from a relatively small outlay...


I know. You think he's doing a fantastic job. That's why I was arguing against you.



Let’s also now look at Jose Mourinho. Does the Taksin brain compute enough to understand WHY a loathed rival such as Mourinho might want to blow smoke up our arses? Surely even the most naive of fans could spot the reasoning and the timing..


This is just conspiracy theory level nonsense. Puerile

[Taksin]

Yes Bali it costs a huge amount to do what they did at crazy London prices - but tight fisted Levy still believed it needed to happen.. Is he mad? Perhaps..


Maybe, just maybe, he was looking at his investment first and losing sight of the team's lack of success. That would constitute an interesting argument wouldn't it.. but in order to have a meaningful argument, certain basic standards have to be maintained




I couldn’t give a flying feck what it costs the owners BTW unlike some of you lot - who want to do the accounts FFS. are we here to worry about how deep their pockets are?! . What matters is getting more of those die hard And desperate Liverpool fans into that stadium.. It can’t happen quick enough for me - build it already....!


How virtuous of you. Spending other peoples money in the billions, all in the name of the poor desperate fans. And not at a nice, well thought out pace, with all the other necessary investments in mind. No, you want it now! The true red.

[Balinkay]

@Steveo

The stadium has been relayed, expanded by 8.5k and now the academy is moving. Afterwards it seems likely that the stadium will continue to expand to 60k+. Also the club isn't in crippling debt.

Pace yourself tiger, that's not bad at all. :D

[Steveo]

@Steveo

The stadium has been relayed, expanded by 8.5k and now the academy is moving. Afterwards it seems likely that the stadium will continue to expand to 60k+. Also the club isn't in crippling debt.

Pace yourself tiger, that's not bad at all. :D
It’s not that bad Bali... Can’t argue with that.

I am trying to pace myself - honest..

[Steveo]

You were complaining at length about how the club was being run. How FSG investment wasn't good enough. How our lack of signings this summer were evidence that the owners didn't want to support the manager. How we were going to fall behind just when we should be forging ahead. How they were training the club of cash. How Spurs were really positioning themselves for dominance.

None of this is made up. You expressed these opinions. You famously settled on the concession that FSG do deserve credit for appointing Klopp, but nothing else they'd done was good enough.
Where the lie there? Please tell me which of those you don't or didn't believe. I'm sure some intrepid forumite could go back and find all these views expressed by you. But I can't be arsed.

I complained about the same aspects that I still feel we could be doing more on... You are fixated with my position because unlike you I believe this summer was a missed opportunity - I still do and nothing that happens this season proves that stance conclusively right or wrong. I am not alone in this either. We have had a superb run of results but I don't see the smartest football on show and I believe that unless we start playing a more controlled game (we can't because IMO we don't have enough staff for that) it will likely catch up with us further down the road... I HOPE I AM WRONG.. Again - even if that doesn’t transpire and we take number 19 - it still doesn’t mean we didn't miss a chance to strengthen the squad this summer... Surely you can see that?

The “famous concession” on Klopp’s appointment is one I have made since 2015, and not this summer Taksin - so again - please stop the half truths sprinkled with misunderstanding.


Who could argue that? I could argue that. But it turned out to be a fruitless argument because the the opponent kept calling me a liar for pointing out what he had said.

The opponent called you a liar because that is how it feels from the opponents side - either that or you are incapable of understanding. IF I said what you attribute to me ...provide evidence - I will happily accept my wrongdoing in that case - I certainly did not ever intentionally state that I believe Spurs are “better run than us” unless in jest ( My Cousin Vinny -" I shot the clerk"? ) - or perhaps as mentioned in relation to your definition of success over outlay?



Yes, I know you love to complain about this. Before this spectacularly good season started so well, you used to complain about a lot more, which seems a bit unsupportable now, especially with Spurs' progress so unexpectedly bad

This is why I usually refrain from debating with you.. This has absolutely nothing to do with how this or any season is or pans out - it’s a completely different subject.. It sounds to me like you couldn’t give a flying Monkey about the fans who want access to games - why..?




Yes Good for Levy. I don't give a shit about their stadium.

Nor do I - it is a boring bowl ( looks like a metallic Nike training shoe ), is just bricks and mortar and will still just be a bunch of Spurs fans singing their boring “Saints go marching in bollox” BUT there will be a shed load more of them. Allow me my jealousy that a peanut of a club like Spurs have a bigger stadium than us. I do want our fans to have more access but can also admit to a slightly childish want for Liverpool FC to have the biggest ground or at least one of them.


Or perhaps the thorn is all yours and you're not very good at admitting you were wrong.

As mentioned...**provide evidence of what I supposedly said AND it’s context - I will happily apologise and admit my mistake because that is certainly not what I believe to be the case - If we had spent what Spurs has spent in the last 10 years on players I would be all over FSG for it.



I know. You think he's doing a fantastic job. That's why I was arguing against you.

But I don’t - Levy has done well - not fantastic by any stretch - club is soundly run and has future-proofed itself to a degree BUT he has spent peanuts on transfers at key times.. Not fantastic at all IMO.



This is just conspiracy theory level nonsense. Puerile

At least look up what ‘conspiracy theory’ actually means before attempting to wrongly use it to debunk a perfectly reasonable comment.

Why on earth do you suppose Jose Mourinho - on taking over at Spurs - would be talking about how well run both City and Liverpool are?

Put aside the conspiracy theory nonsense for a moment and recognise. This is what Jose does repeatedly. It’s what gets him hired and gets him fired. He positions himself well - talks himself and his club up and sometimes even down - when it suits him . His latest statement kills 3 birds with one stone.. My failure at United was down to the structure - Check....

Klopp and Guardiola are doing well because of the structure - Check.....

Levy - give me what I want -
Check..

To try and extrapolate any meaningful truth from a snide like Jose is IMO naive ..

[Taksin]

Thanks for your measured and honest post, Steveo. If all conversations were conducted in that spirit there would be no need for animosity.



I complained about the same aspects that I still feel we could be doing more on... You are fixated with my position because unlike you I believe this summer was a missed opportunity - I still do and nothing that happens this season proves that stance conclusively right or wrong. I am not alone in this either.


I'm fixated on your position because I disagree with it, I wanted to challenge it, you keep bringing it up and whenever I did challenge you I was called liar for misreading you.
I also confess to finding your attitude irritating - it's not just that you are critical of FSG, you assume that the only respectable position is to be disappointed with them. I think that is a presumptious stance. I am also really interested in what makes success, have thought a lot about it and like discussing it.

I'm on record for saying I don't think we'll win the league this year because I think we need more squad depth. Where I disagree with you is that I believe the manager is being supported and that he is happy with the way the squad is being put together. Blaming FSG may satisfy you, but that does not mean the blame is justified.



We have had a superb run of results but I don't see the smartest football on show and I believe that unless we start playing a more controlled game (we can't because IMO we don't have enough staff for that) it will likely catch up with us further down the road... I HOPE I AM WRONG.. Again - even if that doesn’t transpire and we take number 19 - it still doesn’t mean we didn't miss a chance to strengthen the squad this summer... Surely you can see that?


How many points will we need to win before you are convinced the manager has the team working the way he wants it to work? And anyway, I thought our success was all down to Klopp? If you want to identify what the problem is, you need to start separating these things out.




The “famous concession” on Klopp’s appointment is one I have made since 2015, and not this summer Taksin - so again - please stop the half truths sprinkled with misunderstanding.


The timing of the concession is not of importance. The fact that you stated it from 2015 onwards shows I am not a liar.



The opponent called you a liar because that is how it feels from the opponents side


Feelings are not helpful in debate.



I certainly did not ever intentionally state that I believe Spurs are “better run than us” unless in jest ( My Cousin Vinny -" I shot the clerk"? ) - or perhaps as mentioned in relation to your definition of success over outlay?


I asked you on more than one occasion to clarify your complaints about FSG by stating which club you think is being better run. I've asked that question quite a lot of times on here, not just to you. You stated Spurs were obviously better run more than once. I'm not making that up. You gave your reasons, many of which were reasonable. They had, after all, been performing well and building a new stadium. My own view wouldn't be altered even if they are better run, by the way. It's possible to have two well run clubs in the league, as Jose pointed out. So its a bit surreal to me to be getting bogged down about whether I'm lying about what you said.




Why on earth do you suppose Jose Mourinho - on taking over at Spurs - would be talking about how well run both City and Liverpool are?


He made those comments a week or so before Pochettino was sacked. I suppose he said them because he believes them to be true. The whole passage is quite sensible. He has talked a fair amount of sense in his role as a pundit. Those views are perfectly neutral and constructive, not going to cause much controversy. No need for ulterior motives.

[justincredible]

Bump....... Lol.....

[justincredible]

By the way I think you are both very decent posters....:wink:

[Steveo]

Cheers mate - defo best to put in a separate thread

[justincredible]

Cheers mate - defo best to put in a separate thread

And I agree with most of what you both say actually. You can't beat reasoned debate.

[dicko1969]

Do we go the Trump / Bolsonaro route

"Fake news"
"It will go away"
" just take the malaria pills"
"We won't see coronavirus here"

Or


Do we believe China figures or conspiracy of it being manufactured in a lab ?

Or do we believe what we see and read about in Italy.

Either way; thousands dead. Hospitals crowded and lacking basic equipment !

Stories from survivors.
Stories of make shift mortuaries.

Were we prepared... no !

We have to get into a mode of good hygiene.
The near future we will need masks in public spaces.
Just make your own :)

[stevie harkness]

If wearing masks becomes a thing then how will it impact CCTV (closed circuit television i mean), security, anti-terrorism, the islamophobes among us? lip readers will be screwed, masked men will be striding into banks to withdraw money...

My Mum lives in a rural area, she doesn't wear a mask yet but some locals do, they call out hello to her by name and she has no idea who they are so just waves back but it's killing community.

[Taksin]

hey, hey, eey, Steveo, lad..

It seems that Jurgen agrees with me - unless he's lying.. maybe you owe me a gentle, modest apology for all the insinuations about kissing the ass of FSG when merely trying to point out this obvious truth?

"In a special open letter to Liverpool supporters that Jurgen Klopp published in the ECHO during the aftermath of the Premier League title being confirmed, the German paid tribute to many people.

His players, his staff, the fans. They all got a mention.

And in Boston, another group to be picked out - Liverpool's owners, FSG - would have raised a smile.

Klopp wrote: "I cannot speak highly enough of them or what they have done. In modern football you have to have a vision, a strategy and an unshakeable commitment to the cause to stand any chance of being successful.

"On all three fronts, Fenway Sports Group have shown to me that they are leaders in the field. My appreciation for them is absolute."

[Steveo]

And there I was, fully expecting him to thank and commend everyone - all the staff and fans - BUT then come out and slate the owners.. :D

I am absolutely gutted.

Seriously Taksin... Lay off the smarties geezer. :D

[ianlfc]

You two, Fill your boots in here !!

[Kev0909]

You two, Fill your boots in here !!

You've got quite good memory for a old'dog.

;) ;) ;)

[shminkyred]

Missed this first time round...
Funniest thread ever!!! Lol

[Kev0909]

2 years later it's still going on 🤣🤣

[redebreck]

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