Curtis Jones

[dicko1969]

Youngest ever captain

When will he get his first premier league start?

What's his best position?

What a player!

[Kev0909]

hopefully soon in the league, can't see him not getting a chance considering the cushion and games coming up fa cup / league / champions league

[Insidious]

hopefully soon in the league, can't see him not getting a chance considering the cushion and games coming up fa cup / league / champions league

I think a couple of the younger players will certainly get League appearances once it's mathematically won.

Not sure about beforehand, but who knows?!

[Steveo]

Youngest ever captain

When will he get his first premier league start?

What's his best position?

What a player!

He is top kwaliteee. Touch - change of direction - awareness... by no means the finished article but looks the complete package.

[Nineteenx]

He's still got A LOT to learn, let's not start overrating another one of our local lads before his career's even started

[Steveo]

He's still got A LOT to learn, let's not start overrating another one of our local lads before his career's even started

Quite true but looks to have all the ability you could need... A long long way to go, but he doesn’t look far off being used in the first team.

[dicko1969]

Klopp will manage him correctly

What about Neco Williams, Hoever, Lewis, Elliott

By the looks of things we certainly have right back cover here!

[Kev0909]

Klopp will manage him correctly

What about Neco Williams, Hoever, Lewis, Elliott

By the looks of things we certainly have right back cover here!

I assume we're just helping Clyne with his recovery as he hasn't left yet.

[dicko1969]

One thing for sure
The younger players will have a good price if sold

Just with Bobby Donut, and Allan we got £5m

[Insidious]

One thing for sure
The younger players will have a good price if sold

Just with Bobby Donut, and Allan we got £5m

"Small" sales stack up rightly as well in terms of our budgeting.

A £60m player is "only" five £12m players and so on.

[Nineteenx]

Quite true but looks to have all the ability you could need... A long long way to go, but he doesn’t look far off being used in the first team.

Definitely a good up and coming player with a lot of quality, but a hell of a lot to learn, needs to develop a much better team mentality and stop glory hunting, was awol from his position playing at LFWD chasing glory when he was supposed to be in the Gini LCM role when we were leading 2-0 with their lad who caused all our problems breezing through the area he was supposed to be in time and time again in the first game, and could have put a goal on a plate for any one of two of our lads before their own goal tonight but went looking for the glory again.

The lad needs to learn it's the mentality, team ethic and discipline that will get him first team opportunities quicker, not sacrificing those things chasing glory goals

[dicko1969]

Start him every game / or minimum 15mins

[Nineteenx]

Not for me

[dicko1969]

Why not

[Nineteenx]

Overrated VERY overrated, had some nice touches and was brave with the ball tonight, but created nothing, didn't link well with Robbo or Origi (although Origi doesn't link well at LFWD) went awol from LCM loads of times in the game which was unhelpful, didn't release Robbo or Origi once

He went awol from LCM chasing glory at 2-0 up against Shrewsbury in the 2-2 and the lad who created their 2 goals was just running at will at his leisure, unchallenged through where Jones was supposed to be, I don't have time or patience for Gerrard wannabes who think they're better than they are and lack discipline to hold their position and do the basics in the position they're 'supposed to be playing'

I get really bored with local lads getting over hyped, he's no Gerrard, Fowler, Owen or MacManaman, he's not even close to bringing anything like what they brought to the team yet

[reddownunder]

I'd have played Origi centrally and given Jones a crack on the left. Is that where he usually plays?

[dicko1969]

Overrated VERY overrated, had some nice touches and was brave with the ball tonight, but created nothing, didn't link well with Robbo or Origi (although Origi doesn't link well at LFWD) went awol from LCM loads of times in the game which was unhelpful, didn't release Robbo or Origi once

He went awol from LCM chasing glory at 2-0 up against Shrewsbury in the 2-2 and the lad who created their 2 goals was just running at will at his leisure, unchallenged through where Jones was supposed to be, I don't have time or patience for Gerrard wannabes who think they're better than they are and lack discipline to hold their position and do the basics in the position they're 'supposed to be playing'

I get really bored with local lads getting over hyped, he's no Gerrard, Fowler, Owen or MacManaman, he's not even close to bringing anything like what they brought to the team yet

Youd love my son ;
Massive discipline, holds position, plays in the no8 role; will play the forward ball to inside right or left, early ball; or to the full back; plays it simple. Fights forg the team, runs unselfishly for the team ; gets goals , gets assists a true team player, humble, down to earth , listens to instructions.... whatelse...

[Nineteenx]

I'd have played Origi centrally and given Jones a crack on the left. Is that where he usually plays?

I wouldn't have started Mane and would have played Jones at LFWD he hasn't got the discipline to play at LCM and I have been critical of him playing there, he is only a young lad and very talented and it seems to me that he just reverts to where he mostly plays and starts ending up at LFWD or more central positions he drifts into when playing at LFWD, i wouldn't start him at LCM No8 again, he should get chances off the bench at LFWD ahead of Origi if I'm being entirely fair to the lad

[LEGS]

He would be getting the minutes Lallana gets for me now he is a talented kid.

He isnt the finished article who is at 19, he WILL make mistakes but he looks a first team squad player to me.

He has a touch of arrogance about him not always a bad thing along as he dont turn into a Bobby Duncan.

For CL game I think Klopp will go Gini Hendo Ox.

I am not turning on Fabinho he has proved to me he is a quality player he is just in bad form.

[teesred]

He would be getting the minutes Lallana gets for me now he is a talented kid.

He isnt the finished article who is at 19, he WILL make mistakes but he looks a first team squad player to me.

He has a touch of arrogance about him not always a bad thing along as he dont turn into a Bobby Duncan.

For CL game I think Klopp will go Gini Hendo Ox.

I am not turning on Fabinho he has proved to me he is a quality player he is just in bad form.

Fab is a great player, just having a mare at the moment. He'll be fine. If we beat Atletico we'll need him big time after that in the later rounds.

[Steveo]

He would be getting the minutes Lallana gets for me now he is a talented kid.

He isnt the finished article who is at 19, he WILL make mistakes but he looks a first team squad player to me.

He has a touch of arrogance about him not always a bad thing along as he dont turn into a Bobby Duncan.

For CL game I think Klopp will go Gini Hendo Ox.

I am not turning on Fabinho he has proved to me he is a quality player he is just in bad form.

Agreed.. The boy looks a real gem..His touch and awareness seem advanced for 19.

Like tees i am sure Fabinho will get back to his best BUT we can't afford to let him gain rhythm v Atletico. Put all effort into getting through - then let Fab find his feet. I genuinely feel this run of poor results will help us get through.

[justincredible]

Agreed.. The boy looks a real gem..His touch and awareness seem advanced for 19.

Like tees i am sure Fabinho will get back to his best BUT we can't afford to let him gain rhythm v Atletico. Put all effort into getting through - then let Fab find his feet. I genuinely feel this run of poor results will help us get through.

Yup. Atlético de Madrid could be thinking that they'll have it a bit easier than expected next Wednesday evening going by our last few results. Fingers crossed our boys blitz those negative feckers next week.

[Insidious]

Yup. Atlético de Madrid could be thinking that they'll have it a bit easier than expected next Wednesday evening going by our last few results. Fingers crossed our boys blitz those negative feckers next week.

Think we need an early goal to create the correct circumstances through which our crowd/team energy symbiote can overwhelm them.

Don't fancy us if it's 0-0 at half-time and if they score first I think their defence is too stern for us in this moment.

If the lads want to beat them 4-0 I would love Nothing more than to eat all that humble pie though.

[Nineteenx]

Think we need an early goal to create the correct circumstances through which our crowd/team energy symbiote can overwhelm them.

Don't fancy us if it's 0-0 at half-time and if they score first I think their defence is too stern for us in this moment.

If the lads want to beat them 4-0 I would love Nothing more than to eat all that humble pie though.

3-1 to us I think

[Nineteenx]

He would be getting the minutes Lallana gets for me now he is a talented kid.

He isnt the finished article who is at 19, he WILL make mistakes but he looks a first team squad player to me.

He has a touch of arrogance about him not always a bad thing along as he dont turn into a Bobby Duncan.

For CL game I think Klopp will go Gini Hendo Ox.

I am not turning on Fabinho he has proved to me he is a quality player he is just in bad form.

You don't need to explain that to me Legs, but I understand why you felt the need to say it on here, a lot of people view it as doing that or you knocking a player if you suggest for any reason they shouldn't be in the line up, it's not knocking them, it's just that in yours, mine or anyone else's opinion x y or z player is a better option

I get loads of stick over Gomez, I think he's an absolutely fantastic developing CB, my opinion is that Matip is a lot better, for me he offers us a lot more at attacking and defending set pieces, he's a lot better positionally and has better reading of the game and anticipation, those two things go together and improve with experience, Gomez is an absolutely fantastic player, but he makes up for not having those qualities as developed as Matip with pace and Matip isn't exactly a slouch anyway.

I always think about the team, I don't have favourites, teams have got better at defending against us and our attacking full backs, so now the lack of creativity in midfield is showing again, particularly in Hendo's absence, whereas it wasn't an issue when our full backs were destroying teams, not having a single midfielder who can play the switch balls and centre to right or left switches to release either full back early when they're in space makes it easier for teams to defend against them.

Given all of that, and the number of corners we get in games and that teams have got a lot better at blocking Virgil and defending our corners too, I think Matip who scored 2 in 8 games from corners prior to his injury poses a considerable threat himself and for me is the better, more seasoned and experienced defender, I think the team would benefit from him being back alongside Virgil and opposition sides would find it a lot harder to defend our corners trying to block and stop both Virgil and Matip, it's that straight forward

[dicko1969]

Great performance v Burnley.
First goal the other day.
Signed a new contract.

Looking bright for us and the lad.

[Insidious]

Great performance v Burnley.
First goal the other day.
Signed a new contract.

Looking bright for us and the lad.

Long may it continue. Extra bodies are handy and if a player doesn't show quite the standard we require, they can be sold to help us gather funds for those who can improve us.

Hopefully our Academy becomes an excellent source of talent for our use / sales in this coming cycle of 2-4 years - makes such a difference.

[dicko1969]

Positives for this season. He can definitely play and very exciting for the future.

[ianlfc]

Positives for this season. He can definitely play and very exciting for the future.

He's grabbing his opportunities with both hands. He's a smashing footballer for only 19 years old.

[miller0863]

He was 20 on 30th of Jan mate but yeah, developing really well for his age.

[Nineteenx]

still a lot to learn, but he's doing ok, press and counter press needs a lot of work, the amount of time he wants on the ball and number of touches he takes too, the belief and bravery to try the kind of passing and shooting people say he's capable of too and the thinking he's Messi and despite not being the quickest, most agile or skillful, thinking he can try and go past 3 or 4 players in stupid positions needs a lot of work too

[miller0863]

To be fair he’s literally just turned 20, he’s developing brilliantly.

[Kev0909]

He's not going to be as good as foden who sadly will be compared too....

But he'd never start as many games as people thought on here pre-season, we looked pretty stacked in midfield, yet he's done brilliant and is probably ahead of Ox and keita in performances (when not injured obviously)

could be the player that dribbles past a few players and scores a screamer, with some magic and i'd love a midfielder of ours to be able to do that, even off the bench it's a great option.

[miller0863]

Time and maturity will give him the confidence to make better decisions on the pitch and to take shots on where he’s now still hesitating.
I have every confidence that he will be a regular starter for a decade in years to come.

[LEGS]

He is a superb talent and ive been impressed with him.

In the City/Leicester game as soon as he went off we lost it.

That is a small sample against two form teams but he starts the derby for me.

[miller0863]

Me too Legs, remember the spectacular FA Cup winner?

[LEGS]

Me too Legs, remember the spectacular FA Cup winner?

Hard to forget that strike it was a beauty

[Insidious]

Very impressed with him.

Is interested in passing it forward, but his decision-making when it isn't on seems to be improving. Also shows a lot of physical strength on the ball and can see him becoming a pretty press-resistant player if he keeps that up.

He is developing. Mistakes will be made, he'll have the odd stinker, but in a set-up where we have three midfielders (ideally with one player to back up each position) he certainly looks to be worthy of being in that six-player group and hopefully can only grow from there.

[miller0863]

Absolutely

[justme]

Curtis is very good on the floor. just needs end product now.

[ianlfc]

He's not going to be as good as foden who sadly will be compared too....

But he'd never start as many games as people thought on here pre-season, we looked pretty stacked in midfield, yet he's done brilliant and is probably ahead of Ox and keita in performances (when not injured obviously)

could be the player that dribbles past a few players and scores a screamer, with some magic and i'd love a midfielder of ours to be able to do that, even off the bench it's a great option.

You never know how things will pan out for young players Foden included. The best I even seen at that age was Jack Wiltshire, he was amazing but injuries took their toll and he never came close to forfilling his potential.

[ianlfc]

Today's the day for him.

[Nineteenx]

Today's the day for him.

Let's have a repeat of his goal v the bitters in the cup

[Nineteenx]

If he hasn't got the bottle to try and play the simple forward pass to play Mo or Mane in on 4 or 5 occasions and wants to be Ray Wilkins and put his foot on the ball and turn it back away from goal before passing it square and all impetus of every promising situation has gone, he's never ever going to be fucking good enough, absolutely fucking garbage today, big time bottler

[ianlfc]

If he hasn't got the bottle to try and play the simple forward pass to play Mo or Mane in on 4 or 5 occasions and wants to be Ray Wilkins and put his foot on the ball and turn it back away from goal before passing it square and all impetus of every promising situation has gone, he's never ever going to be fucking good enough, absolutely fucking garbage today, big time bottler

Jesus wept. Based on one game playing beside Thiago who's won everything and still plays the ball backwards ? And the less said about Gini the better. We winas a team, we lose as a team. They were all shocking.

[Kev0909]

If he hasn't got the bottle to try and play the simple forward pass to play Mo or Mane in on 4 or 5 occasions and wants to be Ray Wilkins and put his foot on the ball and turn it back away from goal before passing it square and all impetus of every promising situation has gone, he's never ever going to be fucking good enough, absolutely fucking garbage today, big time bottler

Is he the new scapegoat now roll on fab being back!!!!

??

Firmino and everyone was SHITE!!!!!!

firmino can't even strike the fucking ball properely some striker

[Nineteenx]

Jesus wept. Based on one game playing beside Thiago who's won everything and still plays the ball backwards ? And the less said about Gini the better. We winas a team, we lose as a team. They were all shocking.

We're talking about 4 or 5 3 v 3 or 3 v 4 situations Ian, when Mane and Mo both had the run on defenders between the channels and the pass was on to either of them and he didn't even have the balls to try it, like he didn't in the City game when he could have at least tried to play Mo in too

[Nineteenx]

Is he the new scapegoat now roll on fab being back!!!!

??

Firmino and everyone was SHITE!!!!!!

firmino can't even strike the fucking ball properely some striker

Fab can't even stay with his man when he absolutely has too and read the play in midfield to realise when he ahs to, but according to you he's the best DM that ever played the game :D

[ianlfc]

Is he the new scapegoat now roll on fab being back!!!!

??

Firmino and everyone was SHITE!!!!!!

firmino can't even strike the fucking ball properely some striker

all 3 up front were awful, Sadio in particular. A bloody shambles and to think we can't look at the bench and change things. But to pick out a 20 year old is a cheap shot considering the Champions we had playing.

[ianlfc]

We're talking about 4 or 5 3 v 3 or 3 v 4 situations Ian, when Mane and Mo both had the run on defenders between the channels and the pass was on to either of them and he didn't even have the balls to try it, like he didn't in the City game when he could have at least tried to play Mo in too

Funny how we lost momentum when he went off against City. Though Ali played a huge part in that game.

[Kev0909]

all 3 up front were awful, Sadio in particular. A bloody shambles and to think we can't look at the bench and change things. But to pick out a 20 year old is a cheap shot considering the Champions we had playing.

thiago was shocking (again) bizzare to point out Jones

[ianlfc]

thiago was shocking (again) bizzare to point out Jones

I just hope he doesn't have social media, if the likes of 19 is to go by.

[Insidious]

Don't think Jones was much worse than anyone else personally.

Jones tries to move it forward if it's on, but keeps it simple when it isn't. You could certainly argue that having him playing safe like that when on the same pitch as Wijnaldum (when both play below their best) means we lack something in terms of progressing the ball forward, but I really don't think Jones was terrible.

Uninspired today, sure - but not terrible - and to be fair when you look at his age and the length of his footballing career compared to our other players today he arguably has a bigger excuse than most.

[LEGS]

Jones is going to be a top player for us.

Not good today but he played very well against City Leipzig and Leicester.

He is not a player im worried about at all.

[GizmoD12]

Kinda remember why I stopped coming on here. Fuk me pink.

[Insidious]

Jones is going to be a top player for us.

Not good today but he played very well against City Leipzig and Leicester.

He is not a player im worried about at all.

Indeed. Days like today where he isn't great are a natural part of his development. He has been showing great signs. The current run is ruining us all. Football is meant to be the escapism from the drudgery and is currently just adding to it, so the lows so-to-speak feel much lower.

[CCTV]

Kinda remember why I stopped coming on here. Fuk me pink.

Our loss, you should post more Gizmo

[GizmoD12]

We were poor granted, but he is a kid who has attributes that we crave and need going forward. Occasions can overwhelm being local and having played well during the week it was gonna be a tough day ask for him. The slow start kinda set the trend.

[ianlfc]

That was a hell of a performance from him tonight, arguably the best individual performance of the season.

[miller0863]

Can he back it up against City?

[Kev0909]

That was a hell of a performance from him tonight, arguably the best individual performance of the season.

Obviously been reading the forums!

We always seem to thrash porto though it's not even funny anymore :lol:

[Joetan991]

19x will write every single player off except his ass loved Henderson

[HLOGI]

Top top top performance. Marvelous performance albeit against a piss poor Porto. But he was class.

[Steveo]

True - won’t be nearly so easy against a wounded City and he does lack experience but each time he gets another start - especially at CL level - experience is gained.

Bags of talent and all the tools - go grab that place Curtis - boy do we need you.

By far our best performer in the middle of the park in the last 2. His goal in west London should have been the winner.

[eggy81]

True - won’t be nearly so easy against a wounded City and he does lack experience but each time he gets another start - especially at CL level - experience is gained.

Bags of talent and all the tools - go grab that place Curtis - boy do we need you.

By far our best performer in the middle of the park in the last 2. His goal in west London should have been the winner.

He has beautiful balance and the ability to beat people on the half turn like a iniesta type player. Sky’s the limit. Be brilliant if he could come properly through now. Long long way to go still.

[teesred]

Hats off to him. The opportunity is there, he can be that create element we need. He was excellent last night , if he's somewhere close against City we'll do well.
Maybe hes been told to be a bit more selfish and courageous with the ball. Certainly seems to have been a shift in him the last 2 games.
It'll be a major bonus if we get a good run of form from him at this time with losing Harvey and the toe stubber.

[jozza800]

We have to remember his age as well. Like I mentioned in the Cap Fantastic thread, how many of us had written Hendo off in his early years?

[LEGS]

Curtis played well against City last season we completely fell apart when he went off.

He is a good player always has been.

Some like to say he needs to do XYZ but he is a young lad not a robot he is going to make mistakes he is playing at the very highest level people need to remember that.

[skyebo]

We have to remember his age as well. Like I mentioned in the Cap Fantastic thread, how many of us had written Hendo off in his early years?
If Keita had continued the form that prompted the club to sign him, Henderson would be long gone by now, luckily for him, Keita hasn't cut it here for one reason or another. And we wrote Henderson off In the early days because he was bang average most of the time.

[eggy81]

If Keita had continued the form that prompted the club to sign him, Henderson would be long gone by now, luckily for him, Keita hasn't cut it here for one reason or another. And we wrote Henderson off In the early days because he was bang average most of the time.

Keita wasn’t bought to replace Henderson. You don’t particularly rate Henderson though, correct?

[eggy81]

If Keita had continued the form that prompted the club to sign him, Henderson would be long gone by now, luckily for him, Keita hasn't cut it here for one reason or another. And we wrote Henderson off In the early days because he was bang average most of the time.

Luckily for us more so.

[skyebo]

Luckily for us more so.
If you say so Eggy.

[eggy81]

If you say so Eggy. do you not think he’s become pretty important to our game? I mean fair enough if not. Thought he’d won most over by now.

[Nineteenx]

do you not think he’s become pretty important to our game? I mean fair enough if not. Thought he’d won most over by now.

He, SKyebo has always been in the loathe him because he's not Gerrard camp and was given the captaincy after Gerrard camp

Hendo's the best captain we've had since the 80's, absolute legend, led the team and I really mean led the team to our first Premier League title, a 6th Champions League and our first ever CWC too

[Nineteenx]

Curtis played well against City last season we completely fell apart when he went off.

He is a good player always has been.

Some like to say he needs to do XYZ but he is a young lad not a robot he is going to make mistakes he is playing at the very highest level people need to remember that.

It was never a case of him needing to do x y and z, nobody said that or wrote him off, and last night was his best game by a mile, what most here, well 3 or 4 us said about Jones is he needs to back himself and play with the same courage and intensity he played with at youth level, last night was the first time he's genuinely done that instead of playing safe not wanting to be the player to give the ball away or make a mistake and hopefully that boosts his confidence even more and he can continue backing himself

There was a point last night when he attempted a pass that got intercepted, they countered and nearly scored and should have scored with better decision making, that didn't bother me in the slightest, it wasn't a dangerous position to attempt the pass either, I'm not sure it it ended up with them nearly scoring from it, it shouldn't have, people intercept attempted passes in games all the time, the passer sometimes gets it wrong when it seemed easier to put one on a plate, all part of the game, I just want Jones to continue backing himself and being as brave as he was last night

[miller0863]

Scored v Brentford and made 3 goals away in the Champions League last night. He should be well ready for City.

[skyebo]

He, SKyebo has always been in the loathe him because he's not Gerrard camp and was given the captaincy after Gerrard camp

Hendo's the best captain we've had since the 80's, absolute legend, led the team and I really mean led the team to our first Premier League title, a 6th Champions League and our first ever CWC too

Before jumping in with both feet I suggest you get your facts right about what I've said about Henderson. When Gerrard was leaving, I said at the time that Henderson would be the obvious choice to replace him, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story . Don't make things up about what I'm supposed to have said. He has improved since the early days but he had to and we all know it. I will praise him when he does well like I do with them all. Its a bit rich accusing me of hating someone when you can't wait to have a go at Gomez on the matchdays. What I will stick to is the fact that he would have been sold (Henderson) if Keita had been good enough, its no coincidence he's upped his game since Keita was signed.

[skyebo]

We won those titles because of Van Dijk and Alisson, not because Henderson happened to be captain.

[justme]

I prefer Henderson on a personal level to Gerrard. Obviously Gerrard is/was a way better that Henderson.

[LEGS]

It was never a case of him needing to do x y and z, nobody said that or wrote him off, and last night was his best game by a mile, what most here, well 3 or 4 us said about Jones is he needs to back himself and play with the same courage and intensity he played with at youth level, last night was the first time he's genuinely done that instead of playing safe not wanting to be the player to give the ball away or make a mistake and hopefully that boosts his confidence even more and he can continue backing himself

There was a point last night when he attempted a pass that got intercepted, they countered and nearly scored and should have scored with better decision making, that didn't bother me in the slightest, it wasn't a dangerous position to attempt the pass either, I'm not sure it it ended up with them nearly scoring from it, it shouldn't have, people intercept attempted passes in games all the time, the passer sometimes gets it wrong when it seemed easier to put one on a plate, all part of the game, I just want Jones to continue backing himself and being as brave as he was last night

Thing is he might have backed himself but he has to follow team instructions its not like Gini played like Le Tissier either.

He is only 20 it is going to take time for any player at that age he will have good and bad spells/games as he isnt polished yet.

As a poster said other day he has defo bulked up abit and it is harder to knock him off the ball hopefully he carries this form on.

I have noticed it a lot especially with our youth players people putting the boot in if they do one bad pass or make a mistake the problem is football is now 24/7 so 16-17 year olds are known way before their debuts not always a good thing.

[skyebo]

I prefer Henderson on a personal level to Gerrard. Obviously Gerrard is/was a way better that Henderson.
There are plenty better than Henderson that have played for us, can't think of anyone better than Gerrard, neither can most of the people who take part in the polls about the best players, which by the way Henderson doesn't come close. I know what you mean about your first remark, I wouldn't have Gerrard as a mate either.

[justme]

There are plenty better than Henderson that have played for us, can't think of anyone better than Gerrard, neither can most of the people who take part in the polls about the best players, which by the way Henderson doesn't come close. I know what you mean about your first remark, I wouldn't have Gerrard as a mate either.

I rate Henderson. but yes plenty of better players than him have played for us over the years..I tend not to go over board when it comes to whos great and who isnt. I think time will tell on the matter.. Thats why ive yet to comment on Curtis Jones. other than i rate him. But that doesnt mean he will be consistentlty great. Gerrards record has a attacking midfielder is sublime. He and Lampard were the best of their generation. But Gerrard was more talented over all.

[fiordearg]

Henderson is the leader Gerrard could never be

[eggy81]

We won those titles because of Van Dijk and Alisson, not because Henderson happened to be captain.

Lol

[Nineteenx]

Lol

I know, the guy's a clown, let's erase from memory ALL our players giving incredible testaments to Hendo's role, the number of games he played at No6, over half in which the press and counter press he orchestrated was so fucking good Virgil and Alisson had fuck all to do almost the entire 90 minutes because the press ahead of them restricted the opposition to virtually zero meaningful possession in our half or attempts on goal and how fucking quickly our incredible form and press went to complete shit when Hendo was moved from No6 from where he had been orchestrating everything, including being our playmaker and how dire our form became when he was out at the end of the season

Fucking blinkered bitter twat, i swear he's that prick Carra or something

[skyebo]

I know, the guy's a clown, let's erase from memory ALL our players giving incredible testaments to Hendo's role, the number of games he played at No6, over half in which the press and counter press he orchestrated was so fucking good Virgil and Alisson had fuck all to do almost the entire 90 minutes because the press ahead of them restricted the opposition to virtually zero meaningful possession in our half or attempts on goal and how fucking quickly our incredible form and press went to complete shit when Hendo was moved from No6 from where he had been orchestrating everything, including being our playmaker and how dire our form became when he was out at the end of the season

Fucking blinkered bitter twat, i swear he's that prick Carra or something
Oh dear, I seemed to have touched a nerve. Is the truth so hard to take ? You carry on believing that it had very little or nothing to do with those two and it was all down to Henderson. And you call ME the clown hahaha 🤣😆😂🤪🙃

[skyebo]

And as for the testaments from his teammates, what do you expect them all to say? . They all compliment each other, if you don't know that, maybe you should change sports as you clearly don't know much about football.

[Joetan991]

Henderson is the leader Gerrard could never be

Have u watched Gerrard play?

Gerrard play in the club nearly go bankruptcy, need to sell players to get in new one, until we played Ngoc as lone striker, he keep leading the team getting the best result possible, Istanbul, pursuing Suarez to stay for 1 more year they nearly got the champion that year and etc, decided against the Chelsea move stay the team until B.R decided to bench him. ( B.R destroyed Carragher and his late career) So u do not call him a true captain until this point?

Henderson play in the healthy club with no financial trouble, able to get 30-40mil signing most of the season, the most important thing is he play under KLOPP, the world best manager, great inspiration teacher, changing the whole culture and attitude of the club from the Melwood to Anfield, under Klopp he plays at his best. Tell me which captain wasn't at their best under KLOPP? KLOPP change player on and off the field to their best.

What I wanted to say is, before u judge, u need to compare the whole situation, if u put Gerrard under the current klopp squad, I strongly believe, Gerrard will be much more better than Henderson, different level. Apart from football ability, Gerrard is the from Liverpool, he knows everything he fight everything for Liverpool. His cousin is one of the 96, He is not only playing for himself.

[Steveo]

19 has issues. Big issues. No need to be so rude to Skye. He stated his opinion FFS!

Hendo has been a great servant these last few years. But an average player for much of his time here.

Keita or better turns up and performs and he is back to squad player. The fact he backed himself to up his game ( and he needed to ) and did it IS testimony to his quality though. Not blessed with top technique he is a player who managers love - and has become a very good captain.

Those who compare him to Gerrard are bat shit Crazy. One of the best players to ever wear the shirt with a player who is arguably the weakest technician in the current squad.

He has done brilliant these last few years in a team flush with quality and the best manager in the game. Has to be said though even our best recent form came without him.

Gerrard captaining this side and we win far more than 2 titles!

The end

[teesred]

Wheres this Keita replacing Hendo story come from?
Even if Keita had turned out to be the "beast" he was allegedly supposed to be he wouldnt have been replacing Hendo. Whilst 19 probably overstates Hendos importance his contribution shouldn't be played down, he's been integral over the last few years.
Hes the kind of lad I want my daughter to marry. Lolz etc.

[Taksin]

19 has issues. Big issues. No need to be so rude to Skye. He stated his opinion FFS!



😮*
Forgive me, I just choked on my porridge there for a moment..

Incidentally, Nineteenx, can you explain the difference between press and counter press? I’m beginning to think you say them after each other because it just sounds so good as it comes off the keyboards.

[eggy81]

19 has issues. Big issues. No need to be so rude to Skye. He stated his opinion FFS!

Hendo has been a great servant these last few years. But an average player for much of his time here.

Keita or better turns up and performs and he is back to squad player. The fact he backed himself to up his game ( and he needed to ) and did it IS testimony to his quality though. Not blessed with top technique he is a player who managers love - and has become a very good captain.

Those who compare him to Gerrard are bat shit Crazy. One of the best players to ever wear the shirt with a player who is arguably the weakest technician in the current squad.

He has done brilliant these last few years in a team flush with quality and the best manager in the game. Has to be said though even our best recent form came without him.

Gerrard captaining this side and we win far more than 2 titles!

The end

It’s not one or the other though. Both players have made tremendous contributions to the club. Gerrard obviously by far the more naturally gifted player.
Henderson is the engine of this team. Klopp be dropping him for nobody. Everything we do stems from his prompting.

[Joetan991]

Hendo is 19x untouchable love. the end.

[Steveo]

It’s not one or the other though. Both players have made tremendous contributions to the club. Gerrard obviously by far the more naturally gifted player.
Henderson is the engine of this team. Klopp be dropping him for nobody. Everything we do stems from his prompting.

Hard to disagree with this.

Balanced and well put. But that was not the case when Keita came in. This is the point Skye is making.

[Steveo]

😮*
Forgive me, I just choked on my porridge there for a moment..

Try less salt.. :D

[miller0863]

Henderson is Klopp’s voice on the pitch, driving the team forward. Keita?? Do me a favour, he can’t kick a ball straight without injuring himself ffs.
Henderson has been absolutely integral to our success under Klopp. The difference between his presence on the pitch and Gerrard’s is that Henderson helps others around him perform better whereas when Gerrard was playing it had a tendency to have players feel they could leave it to him. Some of them shrank in his presence on the pitch, performing better when he wasn’t there. Ok not with genuine class players like Suarez and Torres but several others for sure.
Under Henderson’s captaincy it is the opposite.

[Steveo]

No - Jurgen Klopp is a different breed of manager Miller.

Put Hendo in Rafa’s 2005 team…

then take out Stevie G…

…then try to reach the CL final twice in 3 seasons.

People often confuse a teams success with one player. If there is one player making that difference it absolutely is not Henderson - behave - it was Steven Gerrard.

EDIT: Easy enough debating the two as captains - but it’s pie in the sky - both are captains for 2 very different managers.

Gerrard was a different breed entirely. Not the most vocal and perhaps not as selfless but ask any top side in world football which captain they would take and you know who they want.

[justme]

Henderson is Klopp’s voice on the pitch, driving the team forward. Keita?? Do me a favour, he can’t kick a ball straight without injuring himself ffs.
Henderson has been absolutely integral to our success under Klopp. The difference between his presence on the pitch and Gerrard’s is that Henderson helps others around him perform better whereas when Gerrard was playing it had a tendency to have players feel they could leave it to him. Some of them shrank in his presence on the pitch, performing better when he wasn’t there. Ok not with genuine class players like Suarez and Torres but several others for sure.
Under Henderson’s captaincy it is the opposite.
I think coaches in Keita's past .gave him good advice which he never listened too, "i dont kick a football it will break your foot"

[Steveo]

Also Miller is confusing Keita the reality with what Klopp thought he was getting.

Much confusion here

[justme]

Mentioning Keita's injury record. does anyone know what it was like when he played Germany?? If he was fit most of the time.I find it strange how hes had so many injuries with us.

[eggy81]

Hard to disagree with this.

Balanced and well put. But that was not the case when Keita came in. This is the point Skye is making.

Tbh between his injuries and how long it actually took to sign keita I can’t remember how we were when we first got him. Remember lallana looking great in klopps early months. Coutinho too. Hopefully we see the real keita this season.

[Steveo]

I gave up on him long ago mate - but would be tickled pink to be wrong. We need him to come good and soon.

[skyebo]

19 has issues. Big issues. No need to be so rude to Skye. He stated his opinion FFS!

Hendo has been a great servant these last few years. But an average player for much of his time here.

Keita or better turns up and performs and he is back to squad player. The fact he backed himself to up his game ( and he needed to ) and did it IS testimony to his quality though. Not blessed with top technique he is a player who managers love - and has become a very good captain.

Those who compare him to Gerrard are bat shit Crazy. One of the best players to ever wear the shirt with a player who is arguably the weakest technician in the current squad.

He has done brilliant these last few years in a team flush with quality and the best manager in the game. Has to be said though even our best recent form came without him.

Gerrard captaining this side and we win far more than 2 titles!

The end

Thanks Steveo, yes I was just trying to put my point across.

[ianlfc]

Gerrard in this Klopp team would make us unstoppable,but It never happened .Young Curtis put in a Stevie G performance the other night,Let's hope he follows it up on Sunday.

[Joetan991]

If Klopp come to LFC 3-4 season earlier, perhaps skip his Dortmund career, from Mainz to LFC, Gerrard he should had 2-3 tittle at least. He would be Milner no 2 by now, not badly treated by B.R and benched him forced him to move out of the club.

[HLOGI]

Let me weigh in on this direction that this convo has taken...

Henderson ability & contribution...

I have not been one to slate of Henderson, however there is a saying great players make average players good and good players great. Henderson has had the privilege's to play for the best Manager with at their prime some of his team mates fall in the bracket of world class to very good (Van Dijk, AB, Salah, Mane, Trent) on their day some of the finest footballers of their time. For me the Henderson of 2013-2014 is the best version I have seen of him as footballer. 2018-2020 was special as a group and as the captain he obviously had a great part to play in that. Henderson is a hard worker. A horse. a Good player not great, not world class. In his earlier days when people were slating he was shite at times and kudos to him for proving some wrong but his ability is still where it was. He just sweats blood for the team but his footballing ability is good not spectacular.

VS. Gerrard and who is better captain...

Gerrard also played with world class talent but there is not one person who could say that he played with 1 player on a higher level than him. He was the most naturally talented player of his day and perhaps of any day. One can even argue that the world class level of players he played with are a higher level than all this group. The reason we didn't win a title SAF had a stronger 11 and 22 all the season Gerrard played and then Wenger and Mourinho also did. Gerrard's Liverpool mounted title challenges with David Ngog as back up striker. Won CL with Jimmy Traore and Milan Baros. Single handedly won the fa cup when individual errors were handing West Ham the cup.

Gerrard was a captain that led. He led with ability but also with his mouth and inspiration. There was no more inspirational and proffesional footballer than Gerrard.

Henderson is our most successfull skipper of the last 30 yrs but some might argue we could have won those with or without him. No one can make that argument of Gerrard. He pulled us out of mud on numerous occasions, Henderson never does, he may be a barker and vocal captain but it is disrespect to even say that Henderson is a better captain than Gerrard.

Gerrard is that general that is a soldier first and his action on the battlefield makes others to believe. Someone said take Gerrard out of Benitez team and replace Hendo and put Gerrard in this group. I think under Klopp with Gerrard we maybe win much much more titles because Klopp would have a 20 goal season midfielder in the team but also a captain whom the team would resect as they do Hendo if not more.

Gerrard is probably the best footballer (this includes being captain) I have seen in my days on earth.

[LEGS]

I think it’s obvious Gerrard is better than any midfielder we have had for decades.

Football doesn’t work like swap Henderson for Gerrard and we would win more trophies that might not be the case as it depends on tactics.

Gerrard didn’t strike me as having great tactical discipline to hold his position he played on instinct something which Rafa himself pointed to a few times whilst here.

Let me be clear though Klopp would find a place in the first team for him he might even have got the false nine role as it’s called now.

Look at first thing Mourinho did at Chelsea he got Makelele at his base of midfield and he was indispensable for them pundits before that were saying in this country what does he do Jose shown what he can do and it freed Lampard up.

This is a player who won a title with Nantes in France and won title/CL with Madrid yet dipstick pundits couldn’t understand what he did !!

[CCTV]

He, SKyebo has always been in the loathe him because he's not Gerrard camp and was given the captaincy after Gerrard camp

Hendo's the best captain we've had since the 80's, absolute legend, led the team and I really mean led the team to our first Premier League title, a 6th Champions League and our first ever CWC too

Klopp led us to titles, Alisson, VVD, Mo and Mane all clearly more pivotal in our title success.

[CCTV]

There are plenty better than Henderson that have played for us, can't think of anyone better than Gerrard, neither can most of the people who take part in the polls about the best players, which by the way Henderson doesn't come close. I know what you mean about your first remark, I wouldn't have Gerrard as a mate either.

Genius can be difficult..

[CCTV]

Anyway with respect to Jones, he's really showing the drive to do more.

Clear as day he had the ability and a bit like elliot just a matter of getting upto speed with top level football, no mean feat

[Daffydd]

For all his failings Hendo joined us when he was 20/21, similar age to Curtis now but with the eye-watering price tag. Very few players that age escape criticism.

[Nineteenx]

Klopp led us to titles, Alisson, VVD, Mo and Mane all clearly more pivotal in our title success.

As ever with Liverpool under Jurgen it is about the entire team, and their combined ability to play the system, Hendo got POTY on merit in our title winning season, we won it because the tactics, most notably the press and counter press and winning of second balls and recycling balls from set pieces were absolutely out of this world, played as a team to the highest levels we have ever played them and not coincidentally, in the run of game that Fab was out and Hendo was there at No6 organising and orchestrating it to those levels, making sure everyone was on point and making the play.

And he did it so well it literally didn't matter who came into that midfield with him and Gini, Milner, Lallana, even Oxlade and Shaq, he made fucking damned well sure it still worked and functioned to it's highest levels at No6, he was without out a shadow of a doubt our MVP in the title winning season and it's not a coincidence we've never reached those same levels since he was moved from there, that was the point everything went a little downhill as a team.

Now in the Champions League winning season, there were numerous great saves by ALisson, absolutely crucial ones, numerous brilliant one v ones and one v two moments of defending by Virgil, moments of incredible inspiration and absolutely picture book sublime goals from Mo and Mane, but those things were barely required in the title winning season, because we played the system, led by Captain fantastic, to an absolutely sensational level

[miller0863]

Jesus wept Steveo, one minute you are defending a Forum member’s right to opinion, the next I’m obviously confused..very confused for having a different opinion to yours.
Got some frightening news for you mate, you, despite what you believe, are not always right.
In fact quite often you are not right and indeed very confused.

I have not said Henderson is a better player than Gerrard, a player who I have frequently called our best ever and as I have seen most of our Greats live, on a regular basis, I would suggest have a valid opinion on the matter.

I have also not stated anywhere on here that we won four major trophies in a year solely because of Jordan Henderson but don’t let any of that stop you from your usual point scoring rant, portraying yourself as the font of all knowledge.
You have an opinion Steveo and that is all it is, you may do well to remember that and if you are about to “go off on one” yet again, please make sure you diatribe has some relevance to the subject matter by actually reading your would be victim of ridicule’s posts before waffling on.

I merely stated that in my opinion, Henderson helped other players (particularly younger and less experienced players) through a game and to perform better. He also drives the team forward.
Gerrard played his own game, leading by example and expecting others to follow said example and raise their game to follow suit.
It didn’t always work in fact it often didn’t work, he often looked like a first team player playing with the reserves and kids.
And that wasn’t just because he was levels better than pretty much all around him, he didn’t encourage and coach his way through a game encouraging all around him for 90 minutes, he played his own game.
Sorry if you can’t understand the difference between someone’s playing ability and the effectiveness of their captaincy but I can’t help you with that, that’s your problem.

[Steveo]

Calm down dear. I believe you you missed the point Skye was making - it happens, get over it man. You are more than old enough to accept it without wanting to stick the boot in.. Ex copper are you?

[Steveo]

Anyone who has this somewhat overblown sense of how AMAZING Henderson is, (and he has done so well no doubt ) who wants people to accept their opinion that he is a better captain than Stevie G - well they shall have to also face the backlash such a suggestion warrants!

Yes even the forum police

EDIT :D

[Kev0909]

Klopp led us to titles, Alisson, VVD, Mo and Mane all clearly more pivotal in our title success.

Exactly..... they carried us to it.

Henderson is a solid 6/10 7/10 most of the time, but soon as he has a few good games he's the best midfielder ever.

I appreciate what he's done for us, but I won't call him something he's not.

Still think midfield is our biggest weakness, (which does say a lot for how good our team is now) but henderson is included in that.

[Steveo]

Let me weigh in on this direction that this convo has taken...

Henderson ability & contribution...

I have not been one to slate of Henderson, however there is a saying great players make average players good and good players great. Henderson has had the privilege's to play for the best Manager with at their prime some of his team mates fall in the bracket of world class to very good (Van Dijk, AB, Salah, Mane, Trent) on their day some of the finest footballers of their time. For me the Henderson of 2013-2014 is the best version I have seen of him as footballer. 2018-2020 was special as a group and as the captain he obviously had a great part to play in that. Henderson is a hard worker. A horse. a Good player not great, not world class. In his earlier days when people were slating he was shite at times and kudos to him for proving some wrong but his ability is still where it was. He just sweats blood for the team but his footballing ability is good not spectacular.

VS. Gerrard and who is better captain...

Gerrard also played with world class talent but there is not one person who could say that he played with 1 player on a higher level than him. He was the most naturally talented player of his day and perhaps of any day. One can even argue that the world class level of players he played with are a higher level than all this group. The reason we didn't win a title SAF had a stronger 11 and 22 all the season Gerrard played and then Wenger and Mourinho also did. Gerrard's Liverpool mounted title challenges with David Ngog as back up striker. Won CL with Jimmy Traore and Milan Baros. Single handedly won the fa cup when individual errors were handing West Ham the cup.

Gerrard was a captain that led. He led with ability but also with his mouth and inspiration. There was no more inspirational and proffesional footballer than Gerrard.

Henderson is our most successfull skipper of the last 30 yrs but some might argue we could have won those with or without him. No one can make that argument of Gerrard. He pulled us out of mud on numerous occasions, Henderson never does, he may be a barker and vocal captain but it is disrespect to even say that Henderson is a better captain than Gerrard.

Gerrard is that general that is a soldier first and his action on the battlefield makes others to believe. Someone said take Gerrard out of Benitez team and replace Hendo and put Gerrard in this group. I think under Klopp with Gerrard we maybe win much much more titles because Klopp would have a 20 goal season midfielder in the team but also a captain whom the team would resect as they do Hendo if not more.

Gerrard is probably the best footballer (this includes being captain) I have seen in my days on earth.

Superb points well made.

[vin]

Still think Clint Dempsey would have made more of an impact

[Insidious]

Still think Clint Dempsey would have made more of an impact

"Don't Tread"

[miller0863]

Still don’t understand the point do you Steveo? Still a little confused it seems.

As for the ex copper jibe.. just making yourself look even more ridiculous, carry on.

[skyebo]

Mentioning Keita's injury record. does anyone know what it was like when he played Germany?? If he was fit most of the time.I find it strange how hes had so many injuries with us.

It's not just his injuries, when he's fit to play he has not been good enough apart from a few games. An expensive flop if ever there was one.

[Steveo]

Still don’t understand the point do you Steveo? Still a little confused it seems.

As for the ex copper jibe.. just making yourself look even more ridiculous, carry on.

Yawn.. And climb down off that high horse mr sensitive.


The difference between his presence on the pitch and Gerrard’s is that Henderson helps others around him perform better whereas when Gerrard was playing it had a tendency to have players feel they could leave it to him. Some of them shrank in his presence on the pitch, performing better when he wasn’t there.

I don't like chopping up peoples posts as context is so often lost but the above was said - and I had to respond.



Maybe we should ask this:
Stevie - perhaps you should apologise for all those times you were so amazingly good - for all those match winning performances - all the times you dragged us through games we scarcely deserved a point in. The Cup final goals and all those blistering runs…for it simply made those weaker players around you shrink into their shell. You should have been more like Henderson..


Did someone mention the word ridiculous?.. :D

[skyebo]

It's not just his injuries, when he's fit to play he has not been good enough apart from a few games. An expensive flop if ever there was one.
I would imagine his attendance record in Germany would be good, if it was similar to his record here, I'd like to think Klopp would have looked elsewhere at the time.

[Taksin]

Maybe we should ask this:



Or maybe it’s irrelevant to the point being made.

Still falling a long way short of having a civilised discussion - one where you are able to hold off on the insults and all the yawning. Trying to understand the what the opponent is saying rather than win the argument by force is a good place to start.

[Taksin]

My tupoence worth is that they have both been great captains. We are lucky to have had them both. They are different kinds of leaders - Hebderson’s leadership is much quieter and in some ways more cohesive than Gerrard. Gerrard often lead by inspiration and his own efforts - Henderson is thinking more about what his teammates are doing and strengthens the team spirit by his every effort, which I would argue makes him a better captain when it boils down to it.

[miller0863]

No you’ve gone again, Steveo your posts have absolutely no relevance to the point being made, you are making no sense whatsoever.
I’ll leave it there.

[Steveo]

Come on Curtis - don’t be doing this..


https://youtu.be/DlceSLFU7co

It might look great - but - you could stop the less talented players from reaching their peak.**We prefer you to just sit and play the ball sideways ( not a pop at Hend ) - you know, let them think you’re just ok rather than brilliant.**Should do wonders for their self-confidence.***

:D

[Steveo]

"Others" help "others" around them on the pitch.

Who helped the "others" on the pitch last season when we needed 26 points out of 30 or fall out of the CL? And with no senior CB's?



The likes of Thiago, Gini, Mane, Salah, and yes Alisson Becker - who also chipped in with as many goals in that period as our captain has managed in 4 years of Champions League football.

We all know that Henderson has BECOME a great leader - and I say 'become' because he was nowhere at all as a captain - prior to that epic 2018/19 season.

Much revisionism taking place here.

Hendo has become a captain different from that which Gerrard was - to say he is a better captain is a personal opinion and one which clings solely to the brilliant performance of the entire team in 2019 and 2020.

Playing for a better manager and in a better team does not make you a better captain.

[teesred]

My tupoence worth is that they have both been great captains. We are lucky to have had them both. They are different kinds of leaders - Hebderson’s leadership is much quieter and in some ways more cohesive than Gerrard. Gerrard often lead by inspiration and his own efforts - Henderson is thinking more about what his teammates are doing and strengthens the team spirit by his every effort, which I would argue makes him a better captain when it boils down to it.

I agree. Both fantastic players and captains who display/displayed it in different ways.
This is kind of a no win argument.

[eggy81]

"Others" help "others" around them on the pitch.

Who helped the "others" on the pitch last season when we needed 26 points out of 30 or fall out of the CL? And with no senior CB's?



The likes of Thiago, Gini, Mane, Salah, and yes Alisson Becker - who also chipped in with as many goals in that period as our captain has managed in 4 years of Champions League football.

We all know that Henderson has BECOME a great leader - and I say 'become' because he was nowhere at all as a captain - prior to that epic 2018/19 season.

Much revisionism taking place here.

Hendo has become a captain different from that which Gerrard was - to say he is a better captain is a personal opinion and one which clings solely to the brilliant performance of the entire team in 2019 and 2020.

Playing for a better manager and in a better team does not make you a better captain.

Has anyone said he wasn’t one of the best players ever to wear the shirt?

[miller0863]

No but it won’t stop Steveo behaving if they have and posting random videos to prove a point in argument going on in his own head.

[CCTV]

As ever with Liverpool under Jurgen it is about the entire team, and their combined ability to play the system, Hendo got POTY on merit in our title winning season, we won it because the tactics, most notably the press and counter press and winning of second balls and recycling balls from set pieces were absolutely out of this world, played as a team to the highest levels we have ever played them and not coincidentally, in the run of game that Fab was out and Hendo was there at No6 organising and orchestrating it to those levels, making sure everyone was on point and making the play.

And he did it so well it literally didn't matter who came into that midfield with him and Gini, Milner, Lallana, even Oxlade and Shaq, he made fucking damned well sure it still worked and functioned to it's highest levels at No6, he was without out a shadow of a doubt our MVP in the title winning season and it's not a coincidence we've never reached those same levels since he was moved from there, that was the point everything went a little downhill as a team.

Now in the Champions League winning season, there were numerous great saves by ALisson, absolutely crucial ones, numerous brilliant one v ones and one v two moments of defending by Virgil, moments of incredible inspiration and absolutely picture book sublime goals from Mo and Mane, but those things were barely required in the title winning season, because we played the system, led by Captain fantastic, to an absolutely sensational level

We'll have to agree to disagree.

VVD was imo the true poty in our pl title winning season. Hendo was great too but I'd suggest perhaps he got it as a measure of the story, being English and VVD getting it the year before.

There's a core group that all contribute, true, but the 4 I've listed have over the years been the cornerstone of our success. Our ppg record with VVD in the starting 11 is mightily impressive.

Iirc both our fullbacks contributed their share too, Robbo equalling and Trent breaking the record for assists in a season by a defender in the pl. Robbo perhaps the poty for the 2019 calendar year.

Klopp has led us to success though first and foremost, the team is littered with quality and leadership due to his profiling of targets.

The difference for me between Hendo and Gerrard is that Gerrard was was leader and the hero. In terms of picking one to captain a side, it's Gerrard every day of the week.

There's a little symmetry in ways but in a choice between VVD and Carra in terms of leadership, the football quality prevails as the primary criteria and the leadership subsides in terms of relevancy.

[CCTV]

Exactly..... they carried us to it.

Henderson is a solid 6/10 7/10 most of the time, but soon as he has a few good games he's the best midfielder ever.

I appreciate what he's done for us, but I won't call him something he's not.

Still think midfield is our biggest weakness, (which does say a lot for how good our team is now) but henderson is included in that.

It's a good story, Hendo turning around a relatively poor LFC career abetted by Klopp and the players he brought to the club. Gerrard was a natural leader due to his ability.

[eggy81]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

VVD was imo the true poty in our pl title winning season. Hendo was great too but I'd suggest perhaps he got it as a measure of the story, being English and VVD getting it the year before.

There's a core group that all contribute, true, but the 4 I've listed have over the years been the cornerstone of our success. Our ppg record with VVD in the starting 11 is mightily impressive.

Iirc both our fullbacks contributed their share too, Robbo equalling and Trent breaking the record for assists in a season by a defender in the pl. Robbo perhaps the poty for the 2019 calendar year.

Klopp has led us to success though first and foremost, the team is littered with quality and leadership due to his profiling of targets.

The difference for me between Hendo and Gerrard is that Gerrard was was leader and the hero. In terms of picking one to captain a side, it's Gerrard every day of the week.

There's a little symmetry in ways but in a choice between VVD and Carra in terms of leadership, the football quality prevails as the primary criteria and the leadership subsides in terms of relevancy.

Hendo laying the platform for gerrard to smash teams would have been a great combo.

[Taksin]

Much revisionism taking place here.

.

Your whole argument seems to be based on it, ironically.

We all know there are other leaders in the team and we all know the team played well when we won the league

[Steveo]

No but it won’t stop Steveo behaving if they have and posting random videos to prove a point in argument going on in his own head.

Naah sorry old bean but it was you who got completely the wrong end of the stick.

Skye was talking about what Klopp HOPED Keita to be NOT what he has failed to achieve.

That is the whole point and that is why I said you were confused.

We can all go back and see it. But keep digging.

Not sure what all the agro was about. You do seem to take offence quite easily. You mentioned a diatribe - I posted your calamitous statement.

It doesn’t read well to me. I thought maybe you would explain it in more detail but so far no.

[miller0863]

I haven’t had a discussion with Skyebo, it was you saying I was confused while totally missing the point I was making. It is very simple, you cannot appear to differentiate between a player’s ability and their affect as a captain. Real easy, even you should be able to manage it but apparently not.
You told me I was confused.

The irony.

[Steveo]

You said this right?



Henderson is Klopp’s voice on the pitch, driving the team forward. Keita?? Do me a favour, he can’t kick a ball straight without injuring himself ffs.
Henderson has been absolutely integral to our success under Klopp. The difference between his presence on the pitch and Gerrard’s is that Henderson helps others around him perform better whereas when Gerrard was playing it had a tendency to have players feel they could leave it to him. Some of them shrank in his presence on the pitch, performing better when he wasn’t there. Ok not with genuine class players like Suarez and Torres but several others for sure.
Under Henderson’s captaincy it is the opposite.

I was simply suggesting that the Keita comment by Skyebo was nothing to do with how poor Keita has been.

[Steveo]

And here my response which you label a diatribe


No - Jurgen Klopp is a different breed of manager Miller.

Put Hendo in Rafa’s 2005 team…

then take out Stevie G…

…then try to reach the CL final twice in 3 seasons.

People often confuse a teams success with one player. If there is one player making that difference it absolutely is not Henderson - behave - it was Steven Gerrard.

EDIT: Easy enough debating the two as captains - but it’s pie in the sky - both are captains for 2 very different managers.

Gerrard was a different breed entirely. Not the most vocal and perhaps not as selfless but ask any top side in world football which captain they would take and you know who they want.

[Steveo]

As mentioned here it is pie in the sky debating who was actually a better Captain when both play in different sides and under different managers.

But I give my opinion on it as I don’t believe anyone can keep a straight face and say Jordan is nearly as key to this Liverpool side as Gerrard was to his. Surely a key component to being a Captain? Again my opinion.

I also find the commentary that Gerrard was somehow ‘less good’ a captain due to him making other players shrink into their shell utterly baffling.

I find that bit strange in the extreme I’m sorry.

[Steveo]

@miller


This was the start of Keita’s involvement regarding Henderson in this thread.


If Keita had continued the form that prompted the club to sign him, Henderson would be long gone by now, luckily for him, Keita hasn't cut it here for one reason or another. And we wrote Henderson off In the early days because he was bang average most of the time.

I can go on OR you can go back to page 7 and read WHY Keita was being discussed OR accept you got your wires crossed.

[miller0863]

Nothing to do with what we were talking about. Nothing to do with who the manager is.
Just try and focus on the effect Henderson has on the rest of the team during the game, talking other players through the game, shouting and encouraging for 90 minutes, leading the press bringing others with him and dragging the team up the pitch. And now Gerrard, just playing his own brilliant game, just focusing on being probably the best player we have ever had.
He was not the best Captain he was the best player.
That is the debate, that is my opinion, to which I am entitled. No confusion, just my opinion.
Keita has absolutely nothing to do with it, not has who the manager is.

[ianlfc]

Neither Stevie G or Jordan were a patch on the 2010-11 Player of the year, Lucas 😂😂

[eggy81]

Neither Stevie G or Jordan were a patch on the 2010-11 Player of the year, Lucas 😂😂

Spitting facts Iano

[eggy81]

Stevie is my all time favourite player. Grew up at the same age watching him. Trying to play like him at local level. He was a phenomenal player. With Henderson it’s obviously less spectacular. He can’t win a game on his own. My think with him though is the number of key moments he provides in games. Be it a great piece of pressing to put us on the attack to open the scoring to a key pass that leads to a chance or goal. It’s incredible how often he is the one to provide the catalyst for us. But yes he needs the world class talent around him to shine too. Stevie didn’t. Both legends. Wish stevie had won the league.

[CCTV]

Neither Stevie G or Jordan were a patch on the 2010-11 Player of the year, Lucas 😂😂

Gerrard considered leaving when every top club wanted him.

Hendo told the club to fook off looking for a wage reduction during a pandemic.

Lucas Leiva sacrificed several transfers out of the club to answer injury crisis issues.
#LFC
#LucasForCaptain

[CCTV]

Stevie is my all time favourite player. Grew up at the same age watching him. Trying to play like him at local level. He was a phenomenal player. With Henderson it’s obviously less spectacular. He can’t win a game on his own. My think with him though is the number of key moments he provides in games. Be it a great piece of pressing to put us on the attack to open the scoring to a key pass that leads to a chance or goal. It’s incredible how often he is the one to provide the catalyst for us. But yes he needs the world class talent around him to shine too. Stevie didn’t. Both legends. Wish stevie had won the league.

Think it's fairest to say both are good captains, but in an either or, you pick Gerrard everyday on football ability.

[eggy81]

Think it's fairest to say both are good captains, but in an either or, you pick Gerrard everyday on football ability.

Probably right cc. In an either or you just can’t not pick him. How do you think he’d have fared in this side. Would he have played in the right of the 3 midfielders

[CCTV]

Probably right cc. In an either or you just can’t not pick him. How do you think he’d have fared in this side. Would he have played in the right of the 3 midfielders

He'd have suited Klopp like a glove.

Think you could leave Hendo on the right and play Gerrard on the left of the 3. Fab 6, Hendo8 and Gerrard 10. A bit like the setup when lallana played with Gini early on.

Mane Robbo and Gerrard on the left would add a few more goals and assists to what we've had on the left.
Our left side is more solid defensively than our right, so I'd leave Hendo as an anchor and free Gerrard to get forward and score goals.

[CCTV]

Dear Curt Jones, No Pressure :D

[eggy81]

He'd have suited Klopp like a glove.

Think you could leave Hendo on the right and play Gerrard on the left of the 3. Fab 6, Hendo8 and Gerrard 10. A bit like the setup when lallana played with Gini early on.

Mane Robbo and Gerrard on the left would add a few more goals and assists to what we've had on the left.
Our left side is more solid defensively than our right, so I'd leave Hendo as an anchor and free Gerrard to get forward and score goals.

Mouthwatering prospect. Imagine his passing looking for salah movement.

[CCTV]

Mouthwatering prospect. Imagine his passing looking for salah movement.

Indeed, the required physicality and that quality would be lovely to see.

[Nineteenx]

The RCM role with the license to go and attack would have been perfect for Stevie

[Nineteenx]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

VVD was imo the true poty in our pl title winning season. Hendo was great too but I'd suggest perhaps he got it as a measure of the story, being English and VVD getting it the year before.

There's a core group that all contribute, true, but the 4 I've listed have over the years been the cornerstone of our success. Our ppg record with VVD in the starting 11 is mightily impressive.

Iirc both our fullbacks contributed their share too, Robbo equalling and Trent breaking the record for assists in a season by a defender in the pl. Robbo perhaps the poty for the 2019 calendar year.

Klopp has led us to success though first and foremost, the team is littered with quality and leadership due to his profiling of targets.

The difference for me between Hendo and Gerrard is that Gerrard was was leader and the hero. In terms of picking one to captain a side, it's Gerrard every day of the week.

There's a little symmetry in ways but in a choice between VVD and Carra in terms of leadership, the football quality prevails as the primary criteria and the leadership subsides in terms of relevancy.

I was talking about the title winning season, I wasn't talking about who is the best Captain. The success of our team and all the talents you mention is hugely dependent on our pressing and counter pressing and the organising and orchestrating of that and the holding together of that comes from midfield

When does Big Bear let goals in? Usually when the defence can't make the angles for him they usually do

When do even our very best defenders fail to make the angles for Big Bear, let players one v one against him or have a free hit without an angle being made for him? When the opposition get to play the ball from a midfield area with no pressure on the ball

When do opposition sides gets to play the ball from a midfield area to connect a forwards run with no pressure on the ball? When the midfield press, counter press, winning of second balls and tracking of running isn't at the levels it needs to be

It isn't rocket science, it's how our system works, practically every single goal we ever concede comes through our midfield press, counter press, winning of second balls, understanding which player they should be staying with or tracking not functioning at the levels it has to. Trent or Robbo don't get anywhere near as many opportunities to attack, show and provide their quality when it isn't working as it needs to either and neither do any of our forwards, unless released by a medium to long ball over the top, from the second ball from that attempted pass or a switch, which more often than not comes from Hendo and almost always came from Hendo in our title winning season

Looks at the Villa result, only Hendo and Mane were missing, the Watford result, only Hendo was missing, the disastrous first leg performance v Atletico in which Fab came in at No6 with Hendo moved to RCM and they parked the bus after scoring through targeting Gomez's weaknesses at a corner and had everyone except Fab marked up and let him have the ball and he didn't have the required distribution

The vast majority of what I mentioned about the importance of the midfield press are born out in the stats in that run or game

Virgil:
Bournemouth 0 Tackles 1 interception 2 clearances
Alisson:
Bournemouth 0 Saves 0 Claimed crosses

Virgil:
Watford 0 Tackles 1 interception 3 clearances

Alisson:
Watford 1 Save 0 Claimed crosses

Virgil:
Leicester 0 Tackles 0 Interceptions 2 clearances

Alisson:
Leicester 0 Saves 0 Claimed crosses

Virgil:
Wolves 0 Tackles 2 interceptions 3 Clearances

Alisson:
Wolves 1 Save 0 Claimed crosses

I could go through the entire list, I'm not a huge one for the stats, but the stats through that entire run I was speaking off completely and absolutely bear out, that in that title winning season, in the vast majority of all our games, the need for Virgil to defend as he can and as he did in 18-19 and Alisson to makes saves as he did just simply wasn't there, our press was SO fucking good, Virgil and Alisson were spectators the the vast majority of A LOT of the games and rarely needed to be called upon

In 17 Premier and Champions League games prior to Fab's injury we kept 2 clean sheets and conceded 19 goals

In 14 Premier, Champions League and CWC games in his absence we kept 11 clean sheets, which would have been 12 but for Twatkinson allowing Dunk to pass a free kick into an empty net v Brighton while the just introduced to the action Adrian was still lining up his wall after Alisson's rare misjudgement saw him sent off and conceded just 3 goals (one of them the Brighton Dunk goal) and the stats comprehensively so how little Virgil and Alisson were required to be called into action in the game in that run

[Nineteenx]

In the 12 Prem end of the season games Hendo missed entirely, we conceded 17 goals and dropped 10 points out of a possible 36, so the League being won on the back of incredible personal displays by any of our defence or our goalkeeper line simply doesn't stand up, we won the league by 18 points, over the entire season in all competitions, without Hendo at No6 and the phenomenal levels of our press, counter press, winning of second balls, direction of which players to pick up or track and recycling of balls from set pieces, our defence and keeper were shipping goals and dropping points in both the league and Champions League

[Steveo]

Dear Curt Jones, No Pressure :D

Haha brilliant.

[Steveo]

He has a big day tomorrow. Was very good v Brentford and superb against Porto, Shitty will obviously be a far sterner test but we know he has the quality.

Unleash the beast within - and let’s kick baldy in the balloons

[skyebo]

Hughes Souness and Hansen were all better captains than the both of them, but they all played alongside much better players. Carragher was the leader, he just didn't get the armband, a few have said he never shut up during a game.

[ianlfc]

Gerrard considered leaving when every top club wanted him.

Hendo told the club to fook off looking for a wage reduction during a pandemic.

Lucas Leiva sacrificed several transfers out of the club to answer injury crisis issues.
#LFC
#LucasForCaptain

Some just can handle "facts"

[CCTV]

I was talking about the title winning season, I wasn't talking about who is the best Captain. The success of our team and all the talents you mention is hugely dependent on our pressing and counter pressing and the organising and orchestrating of that and the holding together of that comes from midfield

When does Big Bear let goals in? Usually when the defence can't make the angles for him they usually do

When do even our very best defenders fail to make the angles for Big Bear, let players one v one against him or have a free hit without an angle being made for him? When the opposition get to play the ball from a midfield area with no pressure on the ball

When do opposition sides gets to play the ball from a midfield area to connect a forwards run with no pressure on the ball? When the midfield press, counter press, winning of second balls and tracking of running isn't at the levels it needs to be

It isn't rocket science, it's how our system works, practically every single goal we ever concede comes through our midfield press, counter press, winning of second balls, understanding which player they should be staying with or tracking not functioning at the levels it has to. Trent or Robbo don't get anywhere near as many opportunities to attack, show and provide their quality when it isn't working as it needs to either and neither do any of our forwards, unless released by a medium to long ball over the top, from the second ball from that attempted pass or a switch, which more often than not comes from Hendo and almost always came from Hendo in our title winning season

Looks at the Villa result, only Hendo and Mane were missing, the Watford result, only Hendo was missing, the disastrous first leg performance v Atletico in which Fab came in at No6 with Hendo moved to RCM and they parked the bus after scoring through targeting Gomez's weaknesses at a corner and had everyone except Fab marked up and let him have the ball and he didn't have the required distribution

The vast majority of what I mentioned about the importance of the midfield press are born out in the stats in that run or game

Virgil:
Bournemouth 0 Tackles 1 interception 2 clearances
Alisson:
Bournemouth 0 Saves 0 Claimed crosses

Virgil:
Watford 0 Tackles 1 interception 3 clearances

Alisson:
Watford 1 Save 0 Claimed crosses

Virgil:
Leicester 0 Tackles 0 Interceptions 2 clearances

Alisson:
Leicester 0 Saves 0 Claimed crosses

Virgil:
Wolves 0 Tackles 2 interceptions 3 Clearances

Alisson:
Wolves 1 Save 0 Claimed crosses

I could go through the entire list, I'm not a huge one for the stats, but the stats through that entire run I was speaking off completely and absolutely bear out, that in that title winning season, in the vast majority of all our games, the need for Virgil to defend as he can and as he did in 18-19 and Alisson to makes saves as he did just simply wasn't there, our press was SO fucking good, Virgil and Alisson were spectators the the vast majority of A LOT of the games and rarely needed to be called upon

In 17 Premier and Champions League games prior to Fab's injury we kept 2 clean sheets and conceded 19 goals

In 14 Premier, Champions League and CWC games in his absence we kept 11 clean sheets, which would have been 12 but for Twatkinson allowing Dunk to pass a free kick into an empty net v Brighton while the just introduced to the action Adrian was still lining up his wall after Alisson's rare misjudgement saw him sent off and conceded just 3 goals (one of them the Brighton Dunk goal) and the stats comprehensively so how little Virgil and Alisson were required to be called into action in the game in that run

Think you're looking at a small enough set of games and extrapolating beyond a reasonable standard.
You are very quick to dismiss Gomez who had a similar great run in the side, but adamant on Hendo. I get you have further views on these matters.

I'd contend that the team for just over 2 years was failry impeccable.
2 cl finals, a 97 point season and a 99 point season as it would turn out leaves opponents defeated before they took to the pitch.

[teesred]

Hughes Souness and Hansen were all better captains than the both of them, but they all played alongside much better players. Carragher was the leader, he just didn't get the armband, a few have said he never shut up during a game.

Can't wait for 19s reply on this. Lolz..

[skyebo]

Can't wait for 19s reply on this. Lolz..

lol

[CCTV]

Can't wait for 19s reply on this. Lolz..

Hendo barks cause he's captain fantastic, dum dum.

Carra barked cause he was a loser and vastly overrated due to a local bias.

[teesred]

Hendo barks cause he's captain fantastic, dum dum.

Carra barked cause he was a loser and vastly overrated due to a local bias.

Haha yeah something along those lines. He has such vitriol for Carra.
So nasty.

[Nineteenx]

Carra was THE most overrated player by the locals I have ever seen wear a Liverpool shirt in the 45 years I've been watching them, he was the Tony Blair of football, a true blue wearing red, Edit: who talked a lot of shite

Most of his shouting was blaming others for his fuck ups

[teesred]

Carra was THE most overrated player by the locals I have ever seen wear a Liverpool shirt in the 45 years I've been watching them, he was the Tony Blair of football, a true blue wearing red, Edit: who talked a lot of shite

Most of his shouting was blaming others for his fuck ups

Haha. I knew you'd oblige. Good boy.

[Taksin]

But he strained both groins in Istanbul..

[ianlfc]

But he strained both groins in Istanbul..

He's still looking for Crespo since that first half 🤣🤣

[Nineteenx]

He's still looking for Crespo since that first half ����

Loooooooooooooooooooooool What an absolute disaster he was in that game and many others :D

That should have been his song, to the tune of 'Never stop looking for Linda' but replacing Linda with Crespo or Hernan

[Nineteenx]

But he strained both groins in Istanbul..

Falling over his own feet

[redebreck]

Falling over his own feet

Spent most of the match on his arse.

[Nineteenx]

Spent most of the match on his arse.

Like to see jones get a run with

Jones Hendo Thiago

We need that press back to where it was at it's very best, Jones can't get to the level of the press playing with a No6 who isn't very good at playing it