Summer transfer thread

[LFC vs PFC]

Some persistent rumours this past week that involve us going after Havertz and/or Werner. Almost certainly lazy journalism but I'm a sucker for it anyway.

Also saw one that we might sell Lallana to Brendo and Leicester as we can activate a 1 year extension on his contract.

[Nineteenx]

Werner/MBappe - Soumare - LB - Done

[southernboy]

Left back is certainly my priority, though I have absolutely no idea who we should go for. It’s a shame we can’t clone robbo.

[Insidious]

What's this about Bayern trying to grab Firmino for a measly £75m?

I think not!

[RedNoodle]

What's this about Bayern trying to grab Firmino for a measly £75m?

I think not!

Firstly, why would he want to go to Bayern Munich? And secondly, that derisory offer might just about be enough to get his left leg. What about the money for the rest of him? Not that he's going anywhere of course.

[Nineteenx]

What's this about Bayern trying to grab Firmino for a measly £75m?

I think not!

An obviously fabricated story, Firmino's going nowhere and he's worth 3 times that anyway

[Insidious]

Firstly, why would he want to go to Bayern Munich? And secondly, that derisory offer might just about be enough to get his left leg. What about the money for the rest of him? Not that he's going anywhere of course.

It's absolutely Bananas if there is any genuine thought amongst the Bayern camp that we would sell for that sort of money.

Don't get me wrong - I appreciate that it would be wise to sell Firmino, Salah and Mane at some point in a staggered fashion (one per season say) so they don't all become 34 at the same time for us and need replacing all at once so we land ourselves in difficulty, but that is an absolutely measly offer and probably a season sooner than we would consider selling any of them.

[dicko1969]

Liverpool had a €35m offer for 20-year-old Nigerian attacker Samuel Chukwueze rejected last month, according to France Football.

Werner
Haivertz
Sancho
Mbappé
Soumaré

Will any be coming?

Lallana/ Lovren / Shaq / Wilson / Grujic

Ciao ciao ciao

[Nineteenx]

Liverpool had a €35m offer for 20-year-old Nigerian attacker Samuel Chukwueze rejected last month, according to France Football.

Werner
Haivertz
Sancho
Mbappé
Soumaré

Will any be coming?

Lallana/ Lovren / Shaq / Wilson / Grujic

Ciao ciao ciao

Werner/MBappe Soumare LB

I hope for these 3 definitely, I think our Chukwueze bid was prior to the AFCON news, I was touting our signing this lad last summer, looks like another Jurgen, the staff and our players could make world class to me, but with AFCON insisting on holding the tournament every 2 years AND during our season, I think that one is VERY unlikely now, that would then be four players we miss for up to 8 games at a very busy time, AFCON aren't doing players or their game any favours whatsoever.

I think another top class forward is essential, I think Soumare is essential, we need both those areas strengthened with another top class player for immediate contribution and the long term and the players linked can all operate in 3 positions across the forward line or across midfield and fit what we need perfectly moving forward and are definitely players Jurgen, the staff and playing and training with our players can make world class

This would still leave us a striker short for up to 8 games next season with Mo and Mane going to AFCON, but I don't see us spending to bring another 2 forward in for that reason as Oxlade, Minamino, Brewster and Origi can be used in those positions

Keita will be going to AFCON again too, so that would leave us with Oxlade and Minamino as our options for attacking No8's for up to 8 games but I think Jurgen can develop Soumare to operate as an attacking No8 also as well as him being a perfect addition for No6 and both No8 roles as Gini and Hendo play them too

I think Lovren will likely be allowed to see out his contract and leave summer 2021 and we'll assess how Hoever and our other young CB's are doing and who is available on the market

I think Lallana, Shaq, Wilson and Grujic will all be sold this summer or allowed to leave on a free in Lallana's case

[Nineteenx]

We might have a bigger window than I expect, I expect MBappe/Werner and Soumare as they're both areas we need to strengthen and build for the long term.

I'd like a LB, but Lewis and Larouci will be a year older and I wasn't aware until the second game v Shrewsbury that Larouci had got ahead of Lewis because Lewis got an injury and I thought Lewis was very impressive in that game, so I think that's another position we will 'wait and see' on. RB we have Williams and Hoever coming through, CB we have Hoever, Van Den Berg and Boyes and as I think Lovren will be allowed to see out his contract, we'll see how they develop in the next year before making a decision on whether to add another top class CB in summer 2021 I think a CB signing that summer is very likely as the 2 or 3 'potentials' coming through are a way off for me.

Midfield is an area we might strengthen further, I think we absolutely need Soumare moving forward and really hope he is our top midfield target, you can see other sides trying to nick him, but I don't see him reaching his potential or developing anywhere else as he would playing for us under Jurgen and with our current players.

I think he's ideally suited for our system and how our three midfielders play and can play No6 or either No8 at LCM or RCM for us and pretty crucially will offer us those same incredible levels of natural fitness and drive that Hendo gives us long term and there just aren't many of those types of players around of the required quality and potential, I know because I've been looking at all the 'potentials' thinking where the hell do we get a player to contribute immediately and who can offer us that Henderson natural fitness and drive long term for a long time now, this is the only player who fits for me, there's been huge doubts or the need for a lot of development in players who would command big fees and expect to play immediately in all the others.

It's the attacking No8 position I think we might perhaps make an additional signing in that maybe we don't expect, which could be Havertz as a player Jurgen thinks he can develop as an attacking No8, in the Bobby role long term and as an option at RFWD and you can see the potential for all that is definitely there and it's a superb long term investment and gives us a lot more options when we're missing 3 key players for as many as 8 games because of AFCON,

The other option I see us looking at in the attacking No8 role is a Fabian Ruiz type, as sort of hybrid between Gini and a playmaker at LCM, a player with the defensive qualities, strength, dribbling ability and composure and ability to keep the ball and use it incredibly well in tight areas, who also has superb play making abilities and terrific ability at shooting from distance. I found the link to Fabian Ruiz exciting because I always feel players learn and develop from each other and he has the skills we need and brings different skills that are an addition to what we already have with him and he's another I think would fit in perfectly and further increase our ability to win games against different opposition in different ways.

I think long term Ruiz would be an ideal signing for us a LCM and he's another very versatile player too who can play several positions, which I like and we all know Jurgen likes. How we play and our patterns of play and how the channel between the oppositions RB and RCB opens up a lot and that he's naturally left footed I think he'll add a lot with all aspects of his game and the balance it will give us, particularly with his through balls, switches passing and vision. He also has great dribbling ability, shooting from distance and finishing and will give us the left to right switch from LCM we currently lack as standard and much much more.

If we were to sign 3 players for me this summer, all things considered, I would really hope it would be MBappe/Werner, Soumare, Ruiz I believe all 3 would be absolutely brilliant signings and make immediate contributions and see us become an even more formidable team immediately and help secure our ability to be in the long term. I think Fabian Ruiz in our set up would leave nobody talking about De Bruyne at UAE FC anymore, I think he'd eclipse him

[Nineteenx]

Having read my last two posts again I've completely convinced myself MBappe/Werner Soumare Fabian Ruiz job done, we can bring in Harvertz and a CB in summer 21 ;) Get those 3 in during the summer and we're set in most positions for a long time, we'll evolve everything we're doing to even higher levels, have even more different ways to win games and different ways of being able to play and absolutely BUM everyone for at least the next 10 years :D

[justme]

We will need another centre back when Lovren goes, You never quite know with Matip, his injury record aint great. Don't want to be left with just two fit senior centre backs for a long period.

[justme]

There are also rumours we may active Lallanas 1 year extension and then sell him.It makes sense if true.Since there are several clubs interested in him.May make few million. all the better to add to the kitty.

[Nineteenx]

We will need another centre back when Lovren goes, You never quite know with Matip, his injury record aint great. Don't want to be left with just two fit senior centre backs for a long period.

I think so too, I think especially given his closeness with Mo that Lovren will be allowed to see out his contract which expires next summer and we'll sign one then as I don't think any of our 'potentials' will be near ready by then.

Lots of silly talk about Bobby and our forwards, we are looking to add another top class forward to contribute immediately and for the long term future and we're going to be missing Mane and Mo for up top 8 games next season because of fucking shitty money grabbing AFCON again, who I really wish would respect the league's that help make their players top world stars that help their competition bring in the money it does and at least move the competition to being every 4 years as Copa America is set to be, rather than trying to line their pockets and fucking those clubs over in the process.

Look what happened to us with Keita, they played him when he was injured, his other muscles tried to compensate for the damaged ones, put everything out of balance and we've missed him for several games for half our season with niggling injuries that are a direct result of them playing him when injured, AFCON can fuck off. I am a big fan of Chukwueze, but no way I'd sign him when we already have Mo, Mane and Keita.

There is no way on God's earth we're looking to sell any of our front at all and we do not need to in order to fund a move for the other forward AND for continuity we'd want the new forward to come in and learn and develop playing for us in different combinations with all 3 AND having spent fuck all on signings last summer and likely to recoup 70m plus from the sales of Grujic, Wilson and Shaq we don't need to sell any of our first team players to sign players FFS

[Nineteenx]

Re AFCON I'd get a group of top European clubs together and just tell the fuckers, you hold it in our season, move it to being every four years or we'll stop signing and developing the best talent from your region and your game and competition will go to absolute shit and no-one will be fucking interested in your shitty competition then - I'm fucking raging that on top of everything else the Egyptian coach wants to take Mo to the fucking Olympics too, it's an absolute fucking liberty, no other fucking nation takes top top players of Mo's profile and age to the Olympics, because they have some respect and know it's an absolute fucking piss take

[justme]

I agree some shit about Salah leaving is laughable. why the hell would we want to get rid of a player with a scoring ratio like his?
Mentioning Lovren, its up to him if he wants to stay. But hes the wrong side of 30 now and he probably wants to be guaranteed to be first choice and that's unlikely.

[justme]

Hopefully Salah gets a rest in the summer, I love the idea of Mane and Salah.Starting the new season with a rest behind them. They will be firing in August. Fuck you badly, get ready to hand in your P45.

[Nineteenx]

I agree some shit about Salah leaving is laughable. why the hell would we want to get rid of a player with a scoring ratio like his?
Mentioning Lovren, its up to him if he wants to stay. But hes the wrong side of 30 now and he probably wants to be guaranteed to be first choice and that's unlikely.

He's overpaid for his position as fourth choice centre back and will likely be looking at a 40% pay cut if he moves, I think he'll be very happy to see out the last year of his contract and hope to pick up some more winners medals, I don't think he'll be going anywhere in the summer, Jurgen likes continuity and likes to carefully manage the balance of player relationships and the dressing room whenever he makes signings, I wouldn't be surprised if we do bring in MBappe/Werner Soumare and Ruiz and desperately hope we do and with Lallana and Shaq of the current active squad leaving and I think that will be the maximum disruption in that respect Jurgen will want

[Clungeman]

I think we're at a point now where we can mostly go with a one-out, one-in approach to signings, which is a very healthy state to be in. The only area I would maybe look at bringing someone in without them actually replacing someone is at left-back; get someone in who could definitely step in for Robbo if / when needs be, and maybe send Larouci and / or Lewis out on loan to get a season of 'proper' football under their belts and see how they do.

[Nineteenx]

I think we're at a point now where we can mostly go with a one-out, one-in approach to signings, which is a very healthy state to be in. The only area I would maybe look at bringing someone in without them actually replacing someone is at left-back; get someone in who could definitely step in for Robbo if / when needs be, and maybe send Larouci and / or Lewis out on loan to get a season of 'proper' football under their belts and see how they do.

I don't think we're quite there yet, we've needed an additional top class forward for 2 seasons now, the drop off has been too great, Bobby picked up an injury last season from playing every game, Mane's picked up one this season, the amount of games players play in internationals mean they don't get any rest, we can't carry on as we are, we absolutely have to add that additional top class forward this summer, one in one out, Sturridge left, we never replaced him

We've got Lallana and Shaq leaving in the summer, two out, two in and midfield wise Milner turns 35 next year and Gini and Hendo 31. We need to be building for our long term future and sustainability and making sure all the elements are there for continued success and continuation of the incredible dressing room and mentality and we need the midfielders in to develop that same mentality and learn it from our existing players now and need to look to get players in who offer the attributes that make everything work and ones who can see us raise our levels even further and give us even more different ways to win games and play differently against different opposition.

Players with Hendo's attributes and the potential to be as good or better with more experience over time working with him and learning from him and our other midfielders, just as Lucas learned from Alonso and Mascherano and Hendo learned a lot from Lucas, and players that fit that criteria are incredibly rare indeed, Soumare is one of them

Long term planning and continuity is absolutely essential for sustained success, poor long term planning or the absence of it, or being too tight with the purse strings trying to rake in as much profit as possible instead of investing in the squad for the success to continue and revenue streams to grow even more are elements that can end a team's dominance or cut short the period of dominance they could sustain

[Taksin]

What about a free transfer for Quaresma, nineteenx? He’s playing in the Japanese third division if I’m not mistaken and still only 43 years old. Could do a job for us coming in off the left wing when Mané is at AFCON.

[reddownunder]

I'm not too fussed about signing a cm this summer when we already have

Hendo
Gini
Fabinho
Keita
Ox
Jones
And possibly Milner still here

I'd be happy with Werner and a lb. I think we could have a real player with Jones and I wouldn't like to see his progress halted

[Clungeman]

I don't think we're quite there yet, we've needed an additional top class forward for 2 seasons now, the drop off has been too great, Bobby picked up an injury last season from playing every game, Mane's picked up one this season, the amount of games players play in internationals mean they don't get any rest, we can't carry on as we are, we absolutely have to add that additional top class forward this summer, one in one out, Sturridge left, we never replaced him

We've got Lallana and Shaq leaving in the summer, two out, two in and midfield wise Milner turns 35 next year and Gini and Hendo 31. We need to be building for our long term future and sustainability and making sure all the elements are there for continued success and continuation of the incredible dressing room and mentality and we need the midfielders in to develop that same mentality and learn it from our existing players now and need to look to get players in who offer the attributes that make everything work and ones who can see us raise our levels even further and give us even more different ways to win games and play differently against different opposition.

Players with Hendo's attributes and the potential to be as good or better with more experience over time working with him and learning from him and our other midfielders, just as Lucas learned from Alonso and Mascherano and Hendo learned a lot from Lucas, and players that fit that criteria are incredibly rare indeed, Soumare is one of them

Long term planning and continuity is absolutely essential for sustained success, poor long term planning or the absence of it, or being too tight with the purse strings trying to rake in as much profit as possible instead of investing in the squad for the success to continue and revenue streams to grow even more are elements that can end a team's dominance or cut short the period of dominance they could sustain

Lallana and Shaq to be replaced with Grujic and Wilson coming back from loan perhaps? The amount we have seen of both of them this season, I don't think there'd be much need to spend a fortune on bringing in replacements for them if we already have options on the books.

I see your point about the age profiles of Gini, Hendo and Milly though - we need to make sure those guys are not only being used sensibly in terms of their game time, but that they are passing on their knowledge and experience to players while they are still here. I'm not sure that we already have their heirs-apparent on the books beyond Curtis Jones; Chirivella maybe has a chance to make it - he has certainly performed pretty well in the chances he's had this season. But we are currently pretty well stocked for midfielders.

Regarding the front three, yes it is a pretty big drop off from Mané, Salah and Firmino to their backups, but that is more to do with how good they are rather than any shortcomings in the bench players. The ACoN does throw a bit of a spanner in the works though, but again I would be reluctant to spend too big to cover us for a period of only a few weeks effectively.

[CCTV]

@19 Hendo and Gini turn 30 in 2020, Gini only turned 29 in November.

[CCTV]

Some persistent rumours this past week that involve us going after Havertz and/or Werner. Almost certainly lazy journalism but I'm a sucker for it anyway.

Also saw one that we might sell Lallana to Brendo and Leicester as we can activate a 1 year extension on his contract.

Tbh who knows what the fuck will happen :D

I'm all for signing Mbappe as I think Klopp can work with him and develop him massively.

Could be a case of him adding where he can get the right type of player.

Left back and a world class attacker who can play across the front 3 would do me.

[toneata]

I'm not too fussed about signing a cm this summer when we already have

Hendo
Gini
Fabinho
Keita
Ox
Jones
And possibly Milner still here

I'd be happy with Werner and a lb. I think we could have a real player with Jones and I wouldn't like to see his progress halted

Wouldn't be surprised if that's how it pans out in the summer, there won't be any mega signings unless one of the front 3 goes.........which hopefully won't happen and Jones to replace Lallana.

[Nineteenx]

I'm not too fussed about signing a cm this summer when we already have

Hendo
Gini
Fabinho
Keita
Ox
Jones
And possibly Milner still here

I'd be happy with Werner and a lb. I think we could have a real player with Jones and I wouldn't like to see his progress halted

From what I've seen of Jones in the cups he is nowhere near ready to play in any midfield slot in Prem games or Europe, the cup and U23's is definitely his level, it is hugely apparent that he's used to operating at LFWD because that's where he ends up, leaving a gaping hole where he's supposed to be at LCM far too often, another local lad who had aspirations of being the next Gerrard, he's not nor will he ever be.

Also, look at your list, Keita will be away through a crucial period for as many as 8 games next season, as will Mane and Mo, and as we're likely to sign one forward Oxlade will probably play in one of the forward positions in their absence alongside Bobby and the new forward so we're left with just 4 CM's for a position we'll need to rest and rotate in and if we have a couple of tweaks that mean players are out during that period, we're in trouble

[Nineteenx]

Lallana and Shaq to be replaced with Grujic and Wilson coming back from loan perhaps? The amount we have seen of both of them this season, I don't think there'd be much need to spend a fortune on bringing in replacements for them if we already have options on the books.

I see your point about the age profiles of Gini, Hendo and Milly though - we need to make sure those guys are not only being used sensibly in terms of their game time, but that they are passing on their knowledge and experience to players while they are still here. I'm not sure that we already have their heirs-apparent on the books beyond Curtis Jones; Chirivella maybe has a chance to make it - he has certainly performed pretty well in the chances he's had this season. But we are currently pretty well stocked for midfielders.

Regarding the front three, yes it is a pretty big drop off from Mané, Salah and Firmino to their backups, but that is more to do with how good they are rather than any shortcomings in the bench players. The ACoN does throw a bit of a spanner in the works though, but again I would be reluctant to spend too big to cover us for a period of only a few weeks effectively.

I think it's recruiting for immediate contribution and the long term, Wilson isn't of the level we need, I've watched a lot of Bournemouth games this season to keep an eye on him, he's a midtable player if we can get 25m plus for him I would take it all day long, but I'd be looking for 35m considering he's English and Premier League proven for clubs of a certain level which carries a premium. We got offers of 30m for Grujic last summer, again, I'd bite their hands off, good player, but suffers from persistent niggles and we wouldn't buy a player with that history and we could sell him and only need a 10m top up to bring in Soumare who will be a far better player, has that incredible dynamic box to box natural fitness that is very rare and only Hendo has in midfield in our squad, has an impeccable injury free record and can be with us for 10 years or more.

While I think Soumare is perfect and essential to contribute immediately and for the long term, would make us a lot stronger and ensure we can always field a midfield with those incredible levels of drive and natural fitness and his type of player are a VERY rare breed, Ruiz is the one for me who would be a real evolution player. His skill sets and being left footed would add to the evolution of our play considerably and create so many more options for winning games in different ways and playing different ways against different opposition to do so, if we added him to our current midfield options, not one person would be talking about KDB at UAE FC

You can't stand still in football, if there's a chance to secure very rare players for the long term relatively cheaply given the players you are moving on and the chance to sign a 23 year old who in combination with what you already have can help hugely evolve and develop your team and options, again, relatively cheaply considering players who will move on, then you really have to take it, you snooze you lose

[Nineteenx]

What about a free transfer for Quaresma, nineteenx? He’s playing in the Japanese third division if I’m not mistaken and still only 43 years old. Could do a job for us coming in off the left wing when Mané is at AFCON.

OK, I'll address this, I have several times, but I'll address it again, players who we don't sign who make bad career choices and don't have managers capable of getting the very best out of them does not reflect on the value they would have been to us and the player they could have been, with the right manager in the right team could he have been an exceptional player rather than a player who had some exceptional games and too many ordinary ones? Absolutely - Even with his 1 in 5 exceptional to ordinary ratio would he have still been a far better player for us than any single one of the players we had at ALM in Rafa's system? All day long

If Newcastle, the Manc or Chelsea were to sign Soumare do I think he would evolve to become as incredible a player as he would in our system learning from and supported by the players we currently have and developing the mentality they have and playing for Jurgen? Of course he bloody wouldn't

So, maybe, stop being an ass

[justme]

It takes more than talent to be a top player..You need to be good professional on and off the pitch. and you need to be able to handle the pressure that is placed on you ,there have been loads of players who have looked world class and never made it to their full potential.
We see how pressure effects the likes of Man-united. they were once on top now they are being forced to follow and every mistake they make is highlighted 10 fold.

[Nineteenx]

It takes more than talent to be a top player..You need to be good professional on and off the pitch. and you need to be able to handle the pressure that is placed on you ,there have been loads of players who have looked world class and never made it to their full potential.
We see how pressure effects the likes of Man-united. they were once on top now they are being forced to follow and every mistake they make is highlighted 10 fold.

It does make more than talent to make a top player, a great set up, with a brilliant manager and players around them who all have exemplary attitudes and ethics on and off the pitch is a big help obviously. We look for players with the right mentality as well as the talent

[CCTV]

19 with your Soumare lad, I see he's played under age for France but no senior caps. Is there a chance he might declare for Senegal and play with Mane if that offer comes ?

[Taksin]

So, maybe, stop being an ass

I was genuinely having a bit of fun, 19x. Not taking a pop.

I don’t think it’s exaggerating to say you are like a dog with a bone when it comes to identifying players who you think will solve our various problems and then sticking with the idea (or player).
Whether this Soumare is on our radar or not will be down to some scouting and some data analytics so it’s not likely that all your sterling work will make much difference. I have nothing against what you’re doing but you must recognise that it may be as futile or as accurate as your previous belief about Quaresma’s suitability. Nothing wrong with that as far as I’m concerned but it is worthy of a laugh at least.
I’d like to see Coutinho back but it seems unlikely. The club has become very good at identifying targets and signing them so I think your fixation on certain players is a thought experiment more than anything. That’s the real difference today - if we really needed Quaresma the chances of us getting him would be much higher.

[CCTV]

You tell him taksin !! He clearly has an obsession with that French fella 😭

(It takes one to know one - Mbappé 2020 :D)

[justincredible]

OK, I'll address this, I have several times, but I'll address it again, players who we don't sign who make bad career choices and don't have managers capable of getting the very best out of them does not reflect on the value they would have been to us and the player they could have been, with the right manager in the right team could he have been an exceptional player rather than a player who had some exceptional games and too many ordinary ones? Absolutely - Even with his 1 in 5 exceptional to ordinary ratio would he have still been a far better player for us than any single one of the players we had at ALM in Rafa's system? All day long

If Newcastle, the Manc or Chelsea were to sign Soumare do I think he would evolve to become as incredible a player as he would in our system learning from and supported by the players we currently have and developing the mentality they have and playing for Jurgen? Of course he bloody wouldn't

So, maybe, stop being an ass

Seriously Nineteenx pal, you were asked to use full stops.

.................................................. .................................................. .......

[Taksin]

You tell him taksin !! He clearly has an obsession with that French fella 😭

(It takes one to know one - Mbappé 2020 :D)

He’s definitely coming though, kidda. You’re sticking to the facts

Fact, as Rafa might say

[Nineteenx]

I was genuinely having a bit of fun, 19x. Not taking a pop.

I don’t think it’s exaggerating to say you are like a dog with a bone when it comes to identifying players who you think will solve our various problems and then sticking with the idea (or player).
Whether this Soumare is on our radar or not will be down to some scouting and some data analytics so it’s not likely that all your sterling work will make much difference. I have nothing against what you’re doing but you must recognise that it may be as futile or as accurate as your previous belief about Quaresma’s suitability. Nothing wrong with that as far as I’m concerned but it is worthy of a laugh at least.
I’d like to see Coutinho back but it seems unlikely. The club has become very good at identifying targets and signing them so I think your fixation on certain players is a thought experiment more than anything. That’s the real difference today - if we really needed Quaresma the chances of us getting him would be much higher.

Hmm and a quick recap of a couple of others, wanted Kompany to replace Carra the season UEA FC signed him BEFORE the billionaire takeover, wanted Virgil from Celtic when Rodgers bought Lovren.

There are a lot of thought experiments here every single day, that's what forums and opinions are all about, I've always backed and rated Hendo, since he came to the club in 2011, most other people didn't rate him and persistently slated him and were moving him on last summer even after his reintroduction to the side was the catalyst for our end of season run that culminated in our winning the Champions League. Whereas I, and I was pretty much alone in this, insisted that Hendo would be absolutely vital to everything we wanted to achieve and an integral player, so excuse me for generally being an excellent judge of players and what's required for players to contribute to our side functioning at it's best ;)

I don't expect a lot of people to get it, as there are an awful lot of people here and alleged professional pundits and even some of our former greats who really don't understand our system and the intricacies of it and the entirety of what's involved in how good we have been. There are equally a lot of people who think football is Championship manager and don't understand balance, steak and sizzle and that loading a team with a lot of attacking players with very similar qualities isn't a winning formula

I genuinely find things like that a bit sad to be honest Taskin, it's delving into Red4Life territory of finding one thing up that someone posted 11 years ago, tad pathetic if you ask me, I'm not sat here pointing in the direction of the clown who started a genuine 'How long has Klopp got' thread in 2017-2018

Oh and Coutniho :D :D :D Fabian Ruiz would offer us far more as a team than Coutinho ever did or ever could, he bring about a further evolutionary step whereas Countinho would be a huge step backwards and create an area of vulnerability where we don't currently have one

Also, I don't know what you think the data analytics process entails, I've got a very good idea of what they entail and that's how I look at all players now, very differently to how I looked at players 11 years ago and how everyone else did and I am very sure that our data analytics will be geared specifically on what players in various positions do that's relevant to what Jurgen requires them to do in our system and be very different from a lot of other clubs

[Nineteenx]

Or maybe here, when I call pretty much every single thing that has transpired this season and why, but yeah, I know fuck all about players or the game and don't understand it very well at all, unlike all the captain hindsight's

http://forums.lfconline.co.uk/showthread.php?262252-Man-City-Top-4-Battle-Team-Discussion

[CCTV]

He’s definitely coming though, kidda. You’re sticking to the facts

Fact, as Rafa might say

I dislike the use of the word fact, as it's a bit inappropriate, Rafa had facts iirc.

98.7% certain/probable.

The increased room for error is down to 2 things. My agreeableness in entertaining others opinions ;) and the widespread desperation of so many top footballers to get a chance here.
This might lead to us using our force on PSG to get a great deal. With the threat of signing him for peanuts/millions in 2021 or the next January on a free entirely. I'm confident Edward's can make them an offer they cant refuse.

[Nineteenx]

I dislike the use of the word fact, as it's a bit inappropriate, Rafa had facts iirc.

98.7% certain/probable.

The increased room for error is down to 2 things. My agreeableness in entertaining others opinions ;) and the widespread desperation of so many top footballers to get a chance here.
This might lead to us using our force on PSG to get a great deal. With the threat of signing him for peanuts/millions in 2021 or the next January on a free entirely. I'm confident Edward's can make them an offer they cant refuse.

Horses head in the bed?

[CCTV]

Hmm and a quick recap of a couple of others, wanted Kompany to replace Carra the season UEA FC signed him BEFORE the billionaire takeover, wanted Virgil from Celtic when Rodgers bought Lovren.

There are a lot of thought experiments here every single day, that's what forums and opinions are all about, I've always backed and rated Hendo, since he came to the club in 2011, most other people didn't rate him and persistently slated him and were moving him on last summer even after his reintroduction to the side was the catalyst for our end of season run that culminated in our winning the Champions League. Whereas I, and I was pretty much alone in this, insisted that Hendo would be absolutely vital to everything we wanted to achieve and an integral player, so excuse me for generally being an excellent judge of players and what's required for players to contribute to our side functioning at it's best ;)

I don't expect a lot of people to get it, as there are an awful lot of people here and alleged professional pundits and even some of our former greats who really don't understand our system and the intricacies of it and the entirety of what's involved in how good we have been. There are equally a lot of people who think football is Championship manager and don't understand balance, steak and sizzle and that loading a team with a lot of attacking players with very similar qualities isn't a winning formula

I genuinely find things like that a bit sad to be honest Taskin, it's delving into Red4Life territory of finding one thing up that someone posted 11 years ago, tad pathetic if you ask me, I'm not sat here pointing in the direction of the clown who started a genuine 'How long has Klopp got' thread in 2017-2018

Oh and Coutniho :D :D :D Fabian Ruiz would offer us far more as a team than Coutinho ever did or ever could


Or maybe here, when I call pretty much every single thing that has transpired this season and why, but yeah, I know fuck all about players or the game and don't understand it very well at all, unlike all the captain hindsight's

http://forums.lfconline.co.uk/showthread.php?262252-Man-City-Top-4-Battle-Team-Discussion

I think I started both those threads the unnamed thread starter and the man city top4 one, did I start both threads 19 ?

Seems a bit shitty or principally inconsistent not pointing out who you are talking about, having named red4life who doesn't post much on here anymore - in a 'calling out manner'.
Personally I prefer names being offered.

I think I started a thread in response to red4life perhaps, about a post of his suggesting fans would turn on Klopp (not that he wanted that, if it was him).
I started a thread (poll too?) to gauge the mood to demonstrate my belief.
I thought reds suggestion was a bit ridiculous and if it is me you're talking about, then you are incorrect on the genuine thread.
If not, spit it out man, who you on about ?

[CCTV]

Horses head in the bed?

A detailed explanation of why they need to reduce their player talent pool to increase their odds at winning the CL would suffice.
Needs must I suppose :D

[Nineteenx]

I think I started both those threads the unnamed thread starter and the man city top4 one, did I start both threads 19 ?

Seems a bit shitty or principally inconsistent not pointing out who you are talking about, having named red4life who doesn't post much on here anymore - in a 'calling out manner'.
Personally I prefer names being offered.

I think I started a thread in response to red4life perhaps, about a post of his suggesting fans would turn on Klopp (not that he wanted that, if it was him).
I started a thread (poll too?) to gauge the mood to demonstrate my belief.
I thought reds suggestion was a bit ridiculous and if it is me you're talking about, then you are incorrect on the genuine thread.
If not, spit it out man, who you on about ?

I don't know who started the thread on Jurgen, that's why I didn't name them, you weren't here in the 'dark days' of this forum, Red4life must have chilled out an awful lot in his old age, back in 2008-2012 he would regularly follow me and others if I recall correctly, who disagreed with him or had changed their mind on a subject or a player around pretty much every thread they posted on, positing off topic and quoting things they'd posted 4 or 5 years ago, you weren't allowed to say "Yes I did say that, but this or that has happened since then and I've changed my opinion as people do" oh no, none of that, "NO IN 2008 YOU POSTED THIS! ! !" the forum was rife with such behaviour and really very toxic then which is why so many left or took a leave of absence

Bit like Taskin popping up with "In 2009 you said THIS! ! !" all very unsavoury and unecessary and childish if you ask me

[Taksin]

even some of our former greats who really don't understand our system and the intricacies of it and the entirety of what's involved in how good we have been. There are equally a lot of people who think football is Championship manager and don't understand balance, steak and sizzle and that loading a team with a lot of attacking players with very similar qualities isn't a winning formula




D'you know what pal.. and I am being serious here. I've started to think the genius of Klopp is that he doesn't really have a system. It's a kind of meta-system that doesn't actually require players to fit into it. The system fits into them.

We've had a clue about this because Minamino said Klopp told him to play exactly the way he wants to play. That is, on the surface, complete freedom, which players lose under most other managers. Obviously Klopp will point out things he can do better as they go along. Then I'd imagine they all have certain responsibilities in defence when the shape has been torn apart by the attack and the opponents have the ball. When your two full backs are bombing forward, you need to cover the gaps left behind.

Other than that, what is the system?

something like;

When on a counter attack, Mo will be bombing forwards. Get it to him by the fastest means.
Use Firmino to help with that.
If Mané is in space, give it to him.
Run in directions that stretch their defence.
Play like yourselves - if something creative strikes you, go for it.
Shoot if you have the chance - hopefully it will go in.
When they have the ball, harass them with every inch of your muscle. Keep a good defensive team shape whilst doing that.
Play a good balance of attack minded and defensive minded players.

The system is oriented towards giving the players as much responsibility as possible. That's one of the reasons Klopp enjoys watching them so much - he's prepared to be surprised.

[RedNoodle]

Danny "The D-Head" Mills on TalkCrud saying that we need to strengthen/kick on (apparently like Man U did) and that players like VVD, Firmino etc could look to move elsewhere.

People like Mills know sweet FA about anything including the game they played for 20 odd years. He also said that Neymar only moved for money, when it is well known that he wanted to get out of Messi's shadow and win the 'Baloon Door'.

They amount of times I've heard that some of our players could want to go to Madrid/Barca, we've been 'lucky, Klopp has spent lots of money, we 'celebrated' a draw against WBA, Bobby's surname is Firminio etc, etc is asounding...... how any of these 'know nothings' get a job in the media (other than having their tongues up someones backside) I'll never know.

He also had a pop at us asking if Guardiola or Moyes would do what we did and play an U23 side in the rearranged league game. He really is an A grade ****.

[justme]

"we need to kick on" whattttt like win the champions league one season and the league the next?? still be in Champions league and the fa-cup? Anyway I hope we play more of our first team players for the Fa-cup.. I'd like to get past Chelsea.

[skyebo]

Danny "The D-Head" Mills on TalkCrud saying that we need to strengthen/kick on (apparently like Man U did) and that players like VVD, Firmino etc could look to move elsewhere.

People like Mills know sweet FA about anything including the game they played for 20 odd years. He also said that Neymar only moved for money, when it is well known that he wanted to get out of Messi's shadow and win the 'Baloon Door'.

They amount of times I've heard that some of our players could want to go to Madrid/Barca, we've been 'lucky, Klopp has spent lots of money, we 'celebrated' a draw against WBA, Bobby's surname is Firminio etc, etc is asounding...... how any of these 'know nothings' get a job in the media (other than having their tongues up someones backside) I'll never know.

He also had a pop at us asking if Guardiola or Moyes would do what we did and play an U23 side in the rearranged league game. He really is an A grade ****.

What's he talking about, there was only 2 changes from his regular eleven when we played West Ham.

[Nineteenx]

D'you know what pal.. and I am being serious here. I've started to think the genius of Klopp is that he doesn't really have a system.

He definitely does have a system, it's not a system as people understand systems, where teams have a certain way they play and players that if you stop one or two of, you can stop them playing, it became even more fluid when Hendo was at No6 at the midfield 3 were rotating position and assuming each others position a lot throughout each game. The full backs don't always both bomb on. The system is tweaked for certain sides. One of THE most exciting thing about this team is that we can be brilliant in different ways albeit with familiar patterns (patterns which the players have often mentioned having worked at on the training pitch)

One of the issues we had in the clear system with Fabinho and his high pressing is the midfield 3 didn't rotate and he played very centrally leaving a hole and teams looked to exploit that hole with players making outside in diagonal runs to be found in it, with the two wide players simultaneously springing to quickly give them a 3 or 4 v 2 or 3 running at our defence.

They also exploited our right hand side very well because he isn't a true DM No6 and doesn't operate right across the width of the pitch as Hendo does and teams had learned to do both those things very well until Hendo came back in and were able to instantly do it to us again causing us real problems in games in which Hendo was subbed early this season, to the extent Jurgen had to make more subs specifically to stop it. So that is an example of our system as it was and players operating in set rigid areas that opposition sides could set up to exploit, through countering from defending or from pressing high trying to get a win back and counter from that, which unfortunately was very evident on Fabinho's return v Southampton.

There are certain set things the players have to do, but Jurgen gives them a lot of responsibility for using things they have learned in games and worked on in training and working out how to win games in different ways using them from within the formation and system, that's why watching them is so brilliant, sometimes, if you pay attention to post match interviews, it's very apparent when we've been so much better second half that the players haven't found the solution by themselves and Jurgen has had to remind them of one or two patterns of play they had worked on and developed for such opposition and hadn't tried.

Maybe you don't recognise it as a system because it's very fluid and there are tactical tweaks to it for nearly every game and we can play differently and win games in different ways in every game, but there absolutely is a system. A good example of a tweak and both full backs pushing very high constantly in that game and the reason for that tweak I could use is the second game against Leicester. Leicester play with one up top, Vardy, given we leave our CB's 2v2 at the back in a lot of games, v Leicester we were very comfortable leaving Virgil and Gomez 2v1 against Vardy at the back and pushing up very high on them to dominate the ball in their half, stop them playing their passing game and press and counter press to quickly win back the ball any time we lost possession.

Our pressing isn't just a case of everyone trying to close down very quickly, our players do, but it's far more sophisticated than that and requires far greater reading of the game and awareness and understanding of one another to do, which is why I say all 11 of our players are always 'in play' and we're always defending while attacking and attacking while defending. Our players placement, how and where they press and positions they fluidly take off one another in doing so is expert, it isn't an easy thing to do, that's why other teams suck at it when they think they can just stick out a 433 and have their front players try and chase every player down.

So, a player will move to press a player, they will already be in a very good position to press that player because our players are always defending when attacking, players not involved in the attack will be taking excellent positions to pick up opposition players who could be open to support or launch a counter attack to counter press them and win the ball back quickly, with each of our players not involved in the attack doing this and taking positions off each other and positions between two opposition players so if the opposition get the ball back and their lad beats the first presser, our next lad is straight there and while pressing he is blocking the line for a pass to the player he's moved away from.

Our players not involved in the attack but closest to it will often take a counter press position I call perfection, as their position is so good it enables them to both quickly counter press and win the ball back if our attack breaks down or become actively involved in the attack, Hendo's position v Wolves to assist Bobby's winner is an excellent example of this

I could write over 1,000 pages on all the intricacies of our system, it really is so beautifully elaborate and brilliant to watch, so I'll stop there as I'll be here all night, that's just a tiny sample

[Nineteenx]

Perhaps a good example of the players working out a solution in a game would be Mo's goal Hendo assisted v Southampton. They were pressing high and aggressively and particularly on Mo and Bobby who we often use to play off in numerous ways trying different things. As Allisson was about to take a kick Hendo pointed to him to signal for him to put the ball into the inside right midfield position, Bobby was aware of this and Bertrand, their LB was positioned to push high and aggressively to stop Bobby receiving the ball, so as Allisson went to take the kick, Bobby ran towards our goal as if moving to receive the ball from Allisson, Bertrand went with him, allowing Allisson to put the ball over both their heads to where Hendo wanted it and received it with an inside out run to then assist for Mo

[eggy81]

Johnny giles reckons Robertson above all others should as things stand win player of the year. I'm in Ireland and I like giles but imo that's pure shite. If anything hes not as good as last season. While still being fecking class obviously

[RedNoodle]

Johnny giles reckons Robertson above all others should as things stand win player of the year. I'm in Ireland and I like giles but imo that's pure shite. If anything hes not as good as last season. While still being fecking class obviously

Another example of someone being paid to talk about the game when they know next to f-all about the game, particularly anything current and/or anything to do with clubs they have no connection to.

[Nineteenx]

D'you know what pal.. and I am being serious here. I've started to think the genius of Klopp is that he doesn't really have a system. It's a kind of meta-system that doesn't actually require players to fit into it. The system fits into them.

We've had a clue about this because Minamino said Klopp told him to play exactly the way he wants to play. That is, on the surface, complete freedom, which players lose under most other managers

That's standard for a new player under Jurgen, it's a short term thing, I believe the theory is, "You know what we do, go and play as you usually would or naturally would and try and be part of it" that will bring both good and bad things, some that work, some that don't, it might offer a new dynamic or solution against certain opposition we haven't yet developed. When you sign a new player you don't want to take away anything new they might bring to the side or stifle any of their qualities by over instructing them and giving them a rigid regime they must automatically adhere to, after a few games of seeing what their qualities offer, then a bit more instruction on how they can best use those qualities in conjunction with our other players will take place

[Taksin]

He definitely does have a system, it's not a system as people understand systems, where teams have a certain way they play and players that if you stop one or two of, you can stop them playing, it became even more fluid when Hendo was at No6 at the midfield 3 were rotating position and assuming each others position a lot throughout each game. The full backs don't always both bomb on. The system is tweaked for certain sides. One of THE most exciting thing about this team is that we can be brilliant in different ways albeit with familiar patterns (patterns which the players have often mentioned having worked at on the training pitch)

One of the issues we had in the clear system with Fabinho and his high pressing is the midfield 3 didn't rotate and he played very centrally leaving a hole and teams looked to exploit that hole with players making outside in diagonal runs to be found in it, with the two wide players simultaneously springing to quickly give them a 3 or 4 v 2 or 3 running at our defence.

They also exploited our right hand side very well because he isn't a true DM No6 and doesn't operate right across the width of the pitch as Hendo does and teams had learned to do both those things very well until Hendo came back in and were able to instantly do it to us again causing us real problems in games in which Hendo was subbed early this season, to the extent Jurgen had to make more subs specifically to stop it. So that is an example of our system as it was and players operating in set rigid areas that opposition sides could set up to exploit, through countering from defending or from pressing high trying to get a win back and counter from that, which unfortunately was very evident on Fabinho's return v Southampton.

There are certain set things the players have to do, but Jurgen gives them a lot of responsibility for using things they have learned in games and worked on in training and working out how to win games in different ways using them from within the formation and system, that's why watching them is so brilliant, sometimes, if you pay attention to post match interviews, it's very apparent when we've been so much better second half that the players haven't found the solution by themselves and Jurgen has had to remind them of one or two patterns of play they had worked on and developed for such opposition and hadn't tried.

Maybe you don't recognise it as a system because it's very fluid and there are tactical tweaks to it for nearly every game and we can play differently and win games in different ways in every game, but there absolutely is a system. A good example of a tweak and both full backs pushing very high constantly in that game and the reason for that tweak I could use is the second game against Leicester. Leicester play with one up top, Vardy, given we leave our CB's 2v2 at the back in a lot of games, v Leicester we were very comfortable leaving Virgil and Gomez 2v1 against Vardy at the back and pushing up very high on them to dominate the ball in their half, stop them playing their passing game and press and counter press to quickly win back the ball any time we lost possession.

Our pressing isn't just a case of everyone trying to close down very quickly, our players do, but it's far more sophisticated than that and requires far greater reading of the game and awareness and understanding of one another to do, which is why I say all 11 of our players are always 'in play' and we're always defending while attacking and attacking while defending. Our players placement, how and where they press and positions they fluidly take off one another in doing so is expert, it isn't an easy thing to do, that's why other teams suck at it when they think they can just stick out a 433 and have their front players try and chase every player down.

So, a player will move to press a player, they will already be in a very good position to press that player because our players are always defending when attacking, players not involved in the attack will be taking excellent positions to pick up opposition players who could be open to support or launch a counter attack to counter press them and win the ball back quickly, with each of our players not involved in the attack doing this and taking positions off each other and positions between two opposition players so if the opposition get the ball back and their lad beats the first presser, our next lad is straight there and while pressing he is blocking the line for a pass to the player he's moved away from.

Our players not involved in the attack but closest to it will often take a counter press position I call perfection, as their position is so good it enables them to both quickly counter press and win the ball back if our attack breaks down or become actively involved in the attack, Hendo's position v Wolves to assist Bobby's winner is an excellent example of this

I could write over 1,000 pages on all the intricacies of our system, it really is so beautifully elaborate and brilliant to watch, so I'll stop there as I'll be here all night, that's just a tiny sample

Good post, 19x

I still think the distinction is arguable here. There’s a difference between describing how the team play and describing a system they follow. Your 1000 page dossier would no doubt make fascinating reading but that isn’t the way Klopp has got the team playing. He doesn’t say ‘read 19x’s booklet and then you’ll know how we play’.
Obviously he emphasises training more than player purchasing - it’s not mutually exclusive but it’s an emphasis of his. And in training they reinforce pattens of play, cooperation and reactions to scenarios, amongst many other things. There is no doubt he offers guidance and asks for certain things from his players.
But ultimately the system is designed to allow them to express themselves as if there were no system to fit into. That’s why it’s so fluid. The more fluid it gets, the less need there is for systematic instructions. The team has an objective to win and the method is becoming second nature, not the observance of a set of rules.

I think all mastery involves the transcendence of the technique. Eventually you aren’t following rules anymore but instead you are expressing yourself with freedom.
Like the golf swing for example. You start with instructions - do this, don’t do that. Most players, including many pros, never get beyond this. Many ruin their game by become bogged down with method and forgetting the ultimate aim. Hit the ball.
The top golfers are able to leave the instructions to muscle memory and set the game free to the will - hit the ball to the target being the only instruction.

That would be true of any successful team that reaches high levels though. So it’s not specific to Klopp. But I think Klopp assumes that mastery is possible and therefore it is not accidental or the icing on the cake. He wants to get his instructions out of his players heads just like the golfer wants to stop thinking swing thoughts. It looks like a different approach to me.

So when a break is on for example, the players know they have to get forward - it’s an instruction on one level - but by now it is essentially spontaneous. They all know they are bombing forward and they also know if they have the ball there will be other players to pass to at all times. The manager could tell them where to position themselves but, by now, they actually know better than him where to head towards because they are intelligent and well trained. They are free.

[Nineteenx]

Good post, 19x

I still think the distinction is arguable here. There’s a difference between describing how the team play and describing a system they follow. Your 1000 page dossier would no doubt make fascinating reading but that isn’t the way Klopp has got the team playing. He doesn’t say ‘read 19x’s booklet and then you’ll know how we play’.


There is a system and equally the players are to an extent free, Jurgen brings in players he feels will bring new things and evolution to the system and to a great extent but with some guidance and work on patterns of play to overcome certain situations and how to react in certain siutations, makes/lets the players work out a lot of things among themselves to become the system and help evolve it.

that then goes back to my ideas on bringing in an additional top quality forward and couple of young 20-23 year old top quality midfielders this summer. There is a system and the players become the system, but our current players have become the current system through 3 or more years of playing together, so signings for our long term future 2 or 3 years down the line who can also contribute immediately when Millie will likely be on the coaching staff and Hendo and Gini likely getting more rest and doing the kind of role Millie does now need to come in now to develop and evolve as part of the system learning from the players who currently are the system. You can't just buy someone in off the peg to slot in when a player leaves or retires, you need continuation and that can only be achieved by bringing in the players this summer

[Nineteenx]

We do have a definite system, a formation, a definite shape in many parts and aspects of our games and patterns of play with a lot of variations to what we do that are situation based. Jurgen will set certain tactics and ways of operating the system for different games and let the players find solutions for winning it using that using patterns of play and different variation of movement and playing styles have have built up and developed through working on during training and in matches. The players help shape it in what they do and are able to do and Jurgen develops certain things and new patterns of play and movement and rotation of positions for certain opposition and types of opposition and different situations through when teams have frustrated us and we've found ways teams have set up and approached playing us more difficult. That's very clear from everything we've seen in the last few years and the system and players evolve.

Mentality is very key also, our pressing, counter pressing and defending when attacking and attacking when defending takes incredible mentality in terms of focus, awareness, communication and concentration as all 11 players are always 'in play' and that and the players working hard to continually improve, evolve and develop with the guidance of Jurgen and his staff is huge reason for the incredible performance levels we've been seeing

Edit: It reminds me in a way of the "Now what are you prepared to do" clip from 'The Untouchables' not directly to what Sean Connery is talking about obviously and not relating to dark arts as other people may interpret the comparison, but in terms of teams trying to do certain things to us and us being capable of doing those things to them and be being better at them.

They want to try and block all our midfield lines - fine we'll play some balls in behind or over midfield and have our forwards get on the end of it or win it and lay it off and start from there and if you win it to clear, we'll be better at winning the second ball and start from there

[Nineteenx]

Danny "The D-Head" Mills on TalkCrud saying that we need to strengthen/kick on (apparently like Man U did) and that players like VVD, Firmino etc could look to move elsewhere.

People like Mills know sweet FA about anything including the game they played for 20 odd years. He also said that Neymar only moved for money, when it is well known that he wanted to get out of Messi's shadow and win the 'Baloon Door'.

They amount of times I've heard that some of our players could want to go to Madrid/Barca, we've been 'lucky, Klopp has spent lots of money, we 'celebrated' a draw against WBA, Bobby's surname is Firminio etc, etc is asounding...... how any of these 'know nothings' get a job in the media (other than having their tongues up someones backside) I'll never know.

He also had a pop at us asking if Guardiola or Moyes would do what we did and play an U23 side in the rearranged league game. He really is an A grade ****.

They're all useless, I think they'd do the game a favour if they ditched the majority of ex players as alleged professional pundits, they mostly talk a right loads of shite, trot out cliches, tell you things in hindsight you could have told them before the season started and there are numerous of them who still follow the 'anyone but Liverpool' line instilled in the UK media through Sky and his various rags over 3 decades by Murdoch.

They're just as thick as the knobheads who've been voting the country poorer for the last 40 years for the same reason, they don't have any legitimate reason for their ABL attitude, drip feed of that attitude over 3 decades has them illogically thinking that way, it's the same thing, teams were getting shafted by the filthy, Chelsea then City over the last 3 decades, just as the country was getting shafted by the Tories or a wolf in sheeps clothing red Tory who was in that Australian twats pocket, but people had this ABL crap drip fed to them and are too dumb to notice they've been well and truly shafted

I have a strong dislike of the filthy, not because they became a rival as I grew up not really knowing who they were or perceiving them as a rival, because they never challenged for anything, I disliked them intensely because they got a lot of unwarranted hype that the football they purveyed, even at their best simply didn't warrant. It wasn't ever football becoming the Champions of the English League's top division for me and neither was Chelsea's, Arsenal's was for me under Wenger, City's of the last two season, but the means it was arrived at weren't acceptable and they've been caught up and surpassed now, money can't buy you everything, it can't buy them a Champions League trophy :D :D

[eggy81]

Similar to is in the 90s through to now I suppose

[Nineteenx]

I don't get the Coutinho thing and why anyone would want him back, he'd create a vulnerability playing at LCM No8 and Fabian Ruiz would offer everything Coutinho could and a lot more without the vulnerability and would be a evolutionary signing for us whereas Coutinho would be a step backwards in my view, each to their own I guess - Coutinho shafted himself and should serve as a cautionary tale to all players who think a mega money move to either Spanish giant is the ultimate achievement for a player, times are changing as they always do in football, we've become a much better team without him, moving forward and evolving further we should surely be looking for a younger player who can play at LCM No8 primarily and other positions to the same level who offers us that greater creativity and goal threat from that position without sacrificing our defensive and pressing ability in it

[Steveo]

You may well be right about our vulnerability with Coutinho 19 but for me it is always missed that we are judged with him in our ranks while also having a comedy back line Pre VVD -EDIT: pre Robertson ( = Moreno ) and with a very vulnerable Mignolet in goal. 3 huge changes on Phil’s departure...

I would love to see Phil in this side - I believe he would be a devastating threat.

Would I have him back though - now...? Really not sure..

Won’t happen in all likelihood - think Klopp is wisely using it as a red flag for others..

[CCTV]

I don't know who started the thread on Jurgen, that's why I didn't name them, you weren't here in the 'dark days' of this forum, Red4life must have chilled out an awful lot in his old age, back in 2008-2012 he would regularly follow me and others if I recall correctly, who disagreed with him or had changed their mind on a subject or a player around pretty much every thread they posted on, positing off topic and quoting things they'd posted 4 or 5 years ago, you weren't allowed to say "Yes I did say that, but this or that has happened since then and I've changed my opinion as people do" oh no, none of that, "NO IN 2008 YOU POSTED THIS! ! !" the forum was rife with such behaviour and really very toxic then which is why so many left or took a leave of absence

Bit like Taskin popping up with "In 2009 you said THIS! ! !" all very unsavoury and unecessary and childish if you ask me

Pretty sure I started that thread back then and unlike the who hates Klopp thread the replies were mostly sincere and the support hadn't waned. There might have been 1 or 2 comedic replies/poll options, eg get Moyes in now with 1 taker.

Cant really say tbh, he did try to ban me for quoting him and replying to a post of his, wanting both off the record. But made an offer to meet up sometime.

Might be a bit annoying, but mostly just a bit of banter. It's the price of your legacy 19 - at least you got that cool YouTube benzema video.

[CCTV]

Good post, 19x

I still think the distinction is arguable here. There’s a difference between describing how the team play and describing a system they follow. Your 1000 page dossier would no doubt make fascinating reading but that isn’t the way Klopp has got the team playing. He doesn’t say ‘read 19x’s booklet and then you’ll know how we play’.
Obviously he emphasises training more than player purchasing - it’s not mutually exclusive but it’s an emphasis of his. And in training they reinforce pattens of play, cooperation and reactions to scenarios, amongst many other things. There is no doubt he offers guidance and asks for certain things from his players.
But ultimately the system is designed to allow them to express themselves as if there were no system to fit into. That’s why it’s so fluid. The more fluid it gets, the less need there is for systematic instructions. The team has an objective to win and the method is becoming second nature, not the observance of a set of rules.

I think all mastery involves the transcendence of the technique. Eventually you aren’t following rules anymore but instead you are expressing yourself with freedom.
Like the golf swing for example. You start with instructions - do this, don’t do that. Most players, including many pros, never get beyond this. Many ruin their game by become bogged down with method and forgetting the ultimate aim. Hit the ball.
The top golfers are able to leave the instructions to muscle memory and set the game free to the will - hit the ball to the target being the only instruction.

That would be true of any successful team that reaches high levels though. So it’s not specific to Klopp. But I think Klopp assumes that mastery is possible and therefore it is not accidental or the icing on the cake. He wants to get his instructions out of his players heads just like the golfer wants to stop thinking swing thoughts. It looks like a different approach to me.

So when a break is on for example, the players know they have to get forward - it’s an instruction on one level - but by now it is essentially spontaneous. They all know they are bombing forward and they also know if they have the ball there will be other players to pass to at all times. The manager could tell them where to position themselves but, by now, they actually know better than him where to head towards because they are intelligent and well trained. They are free.

Nice post.

When learning skills you're consciously attempting to achieve a goal, mastering a skill means it becomes automatic/unconscious.
Poor technique can become automatic too though and in a few sports this can be body/head position, leaning back when taking a shot a good example, you always want your head to be leaning forward in a positive rather than leaning back as it destabilises.
You can succeed with a goofy body position but you're less likely to when the technique is poor. Rather than transcending technique I'd suggest its transcending consciousness.

With team play you aim for this same mastery, but theres a requirement to adapt to the scenarios on the field.
Klopps half-time talks and rejigging though is proof that they cannot always find the solutions on the pitch, particularly tactical ones regarding spaces on the pitch too.
Think he credited them with this on one of our corners last year that Gini scored from towards the end of the season.
Seen a few bits where they say he has his video analysts present clips to them at halftime to highlight his points of correction clearly.
In the game v manu where rashford scored twice iirc he was livid with Can & maybe Lovren for those goals and their duties.

Defending by its nature is more systematic and attacking has more freedom. A good structure enables teams and when its automatic the team can excel.

Our fullbacks play a big part in our success. Think we've also mastered a lower block than before ourselves and we seem to be able to manage games better and reserve energy better too. Our recruitment has assisted us alot in this regard.

Been great viewing :)

[CCTV]

You may well be right about our vulnerability with Coutinho 19 but for me it is always missed that we are judged with him in our ranks while also having a comedy back line Pre VVD -EDIT: pre Robertson ( = Moreno ) and with a very vulnerable Mignolet in goal. 3 huge changes on Phil’s departure...

I would love to see Phil in this side - I believe he would be a devastating threat.

Would I have him back though - now...? Really not sure..

Won’t happen in all likelihood - think Klopp is wisely using it as a red flag for others..

I wouldn't have him back.

If you look at our season stats in 17/18 with and without Coutinho ul to the point he left we fared better when he was out of the team than when he was in it !! Posted about it at the time.

With him we had some very high scoring games. But without him we had a better win ratio and goal difference.

We fared best with him to that point in the season when he played lwf.
Mane's form goals/assists wasnt too hot, from Phil's bad back to Phils move away. Which I've put down to him being disturbed by Coutinhos Barca amibition/Anfield-treachery.

Coutinho at lcm while very nice on the eye and a bit KDB like was a team weakness. Left too big a hole at times and lacked the bite and discipline for cm imo.

Klopps said iirc that as a team we became less predictable as too often it was give the ball to Phil and we became more easily neutralised.

When Klopp signed with us he said he's not interested in signing players he's worked with before ie Dortmund players at that time.

He wants to sign players he can improve and hes improved players hes worked with before.
Would reckon theres no chance of us signing him as Phil is the red flag/example to be made.

No point in risking Mane's form either. People have said before that Mane says positives about Phil but imo you can be positive about someone consciously whilst below that surface level there's issues that unsettle a player.

The idea was that Naby would provide more steel in midfield and do a similar job in attack, sadly a spate of injuries have robbed us of that reality.

Naby will/would allow us to play 433. With Phil in a fab 4 we needed to switch to a 4222/4231 system.
Presently there are better attacking options out there who can play across the front 3, or in a 4231 system that would imo produce a more potent attack.

[Steveo]

If what you say is true then Klopp was happy to go against the stats when repeatedly picking Phil.. I think the stats are also marginal at best.

I don’t think it’s a fair comparison either.

What do teams most often do when they go down to 10 men..? Sacrifice the most creative option in favour of defence.

Phil in a team with a shambles of a back line is always going to be a bit of a liability - a kind of - we need to score 4 or 5 to win a game scenario.. Anyone remember that?

The point for me is - how would the team fair now - with such a strong back line - with the added option of Phil. Be interesting to see. We might well be more vulnerable at the back but we might also be far more potent in attack.. it would be very interesting to see.

Obviously it is all guess work - but I would put my mortgage on Klopp wanting to see too. He rated Phil far higher than many on this Forum.

Still - doesn’t mean I would pay top wedge to bring him back... Usually backfires that one

[toneata]

There's no chance Klopp would have Coutinho back.

Transfer request handed in day before season starts, rejected....bad back in pre season which miraculously healed once the window shut. Then played some of his best football until December then once again demanded to go to Barca.

Once he was sold, Klopp was quoted as saying 'we couldn't have even used Coutinho if we'd have stopped him'.

That suggests to me there was a complete melt down of trust between player and manager at that point.

I honestly wouldn't have him back for £30m.

[CCTV]

If what you say is true then Klopp was happy to go against the stats when repeatedly picking Phil.. I think the stats are also marginal at best.

I don’t think it’s a fair comparison either.

What do teams most often do when they go down to 10 men..? Sacrifice the most creative option in favour of defence.

Phil in a team with a shambles of a back line is always going to be a bit of a liability - a kind of - we need to score 4 or 5 to win a game scenario.. Anyone remember that?

The point for me is - how would the team fair now - with such a strong back line - with the added option of Phil. Be interesting to see. We might well be more vulnerable at the back but we might also be far more potent in attack.. it would be very interesting to see.

Obviously it is all guess work - but I would put my mortgage on Klopp wanting to see too. He rated Phil far higher than many on this Forum.

Still - doesn’t mean I would pay top wedge to bring him back... Usually backfires that one

Forum record doesnt go back that far. So had a quick look, was wrong on recall about the goal difference.

Games considered cl qualifiers 2, cl groupstages 6, pl first 22 games up to Burnley january 1st.
Our 2-2 draw v Sevilla and 1-1 draw v everton count as without Coutinho imo as he came off the bench and played 14 & 12 mins - no goals scored or conceded. Otherwise he started and played most of the game only subbed off second half.

With Coutinho
Played 17 - 32/51 points say 60% of the points
Won 8
Drew 8
Lost 1
1.88 ppg

Without Coutinho
Played 13 - 29/39 points say 75% ofthe points
Won 9
Drew 2
Lost 1
2.23ppg

4 extra games with Phil and we won 1 more game without him.

Phil featured in 5 of our bigger wins: 2 7-0's in the cl, in pl a 5-1, 5-0 and a 4-0.

On our day he was able to inject quality no doubt. But he played in a lot of draws too.

If Klopp had him hed be a great option at lwf, not as good as Mane defensively, few are.
Otherwise best set in a 42X setup, on the left imo.

Given his age hes not a good target even at a reduced fee imo and we'd be better off with a 9 who can play on either wing. Like Mbappe ;)

He'd have been a great option when Salah went off injured v Real in the CL final. Phil left bobby centre and Mane right.

With/without stats aren't perfect by any means in settling arguments.

[Steveo]

Sorry mate but I don’t believe these stats at all

13 games vs 17 means means they are miles out and are these games with the same back line - same set up? Nope

They don’t give nearly enough insight - not for me at least. And once again - When fit Klopp picked him time and time again.

[LEGS]

Coutinho can do one I dont want him back for a few reasons.

The first being he put in a transfer request ONE day before our season started at Watford and then created a false back injury which cleared up as soon as the window closed.

Second is he a broken man he is a bench warmer at Barcelona/Bayern now and his next stop will probably be PSG after they sell Mbappe and he will shine for them and get paid his £250k a week.

He disrespected our club and that should not be forgotten.

[skyebo]

A decent player at times, but we've moved on from him now. Won the CL last season, and the title will be added to that in 3 months time so it's not like we've struggled since he decided he didn't want to play for us any more. I'm not bothered about anyone who thinks they are too good for us and engineer a move. His career is at the crossroads now, the word karma springs to mind.

[Steveo]

Yep I can totally see where you (toneata & LEGS also) guys are coming from and in many ways I agree.

Much as I think he would be an incredible option to have at our disposal - the net result of his sale had a profound effect on addressing the glaring deficiencies we had at the time. I don't expect these potential 'Coutinho back to Anfield' stories to stop though - not until he is sold by Barca.

[CCTV]

Sorry mate but I don’t believe these stats at all

13 games vs 17 means means they are miles out and are these games with the same back line - same set up? Nope

They don’t give nearly enough insight - not for me at least. And once again - When fit Klopp picked him time and time again.

That's fair enough, I wont rob you of your belief - we all have our own.
Alisson enjoys a huge win ratio in the pl with 1 loss since his arrival in the pl. Obviously Alisson plays a huge part but it's on top of others improvements too.

What do you mean miles out ? 13 v 17 is close enough if a small sample and there is 1 more win in the 13 than the 17 with Coutinho.

They're against different opponents etc. Have you looked into your own questions on the details or just dismissing them with objections ?

Just having a quick look, selecting a few games and it would seem the with Coutinho games had more Robertson over Moreno as his injury occured later into the season. Klopp picked Moreno when fit that season too :D (bit of a jokey rebuttal)
Our centre backs, mostly Lovren & Matip, with Klavan back up playing well at that time. Reasonably close CB pairings around that time imo.
Right back seems to be Gomez and Trent mostly.

Formations a quick look and as usual 433 & 42X systems which arent miles apart.
Found one back 3 in the pl where with Coutinho we got a 5-1 win over Brighton - Gini & Can playing in the back 3, Robbo & Trent the wing backs. And pretty sure on memory at least one of the 7-0 cl wins was in 4222.
In short and at a guess your objections to the stats seem to actually favour Coutinho, but it's how you/I view things.

Coutinho is a talented footballer. But he is lightweight, weak defensively though he'd press well. He gave us some wonderful goals etc.

He would've done well to stick by Klopp, but he didn't.
For me VVD arriving was much more important at that time and I didnt expect much of a drop off at the other end of the pitch. Think a few were aghast we didnt replace him then, which was fair enough as we have been heavily dependent on our front 3 since.
Imo outside of the CL final he has been missed most in our ability to rotate the front 3 which imo has seen us adapt our pressing intensity up top.

[Steveo]

Agree with all that CC just think comparing PPG 13 games V 17 doesn’t really work and also if you factor in the different lineups across these games it is very tough to glean anything that tangible - is all I was alluding to.

But he was and still is lightweight - as my old fella would say - a strong wind could blow him over... He was never really going to help out much when we lost the ball and his sale was a catalyst for the team to become far more solid.

[Nineteenx]

I find the Rodgers - Lallana thing quite curious, he was shit for us under Rodgers, he only started to look like the player we thought we'd bought under Jurgen

[jozza800]

That's fair enough, I wont rob you of your belief - we all have our own.
Alisson enjoys a huge win ratio in the pl with 1 loss since his arrival in the pl. Obviously Alisson plays a huge part but it's on top of others improvements too.

What do you mean miles out ? 13 v 17 is close enough if a small sample and there is 1 more win in the 13 than the 17 with Coutinho.

They're against different opponents etc. Have you looked into your own questions on the details or just dismissing them with objections ?

Just having a quick look, selecting a few games and it would seem the with Coutinho games had more Robertson over Moreno as his injury occured later into the season. Klopp picked Moreno when fit that season too :D (bit of a jokey rebuttal)
Our centre backs, mostly Lovren & Matip, with Klavan back up playing well at that time. Reasonably close CB pairings around that time imo.
Right back seems to be Gomez and Trent mostly.

Formations a quick look and as usual 433 & 42X systems which arent miles apart.
Found one back 3 in the pl where with Coutinho we got a 5-1 win over Brighton - Gini & Can playing in the back 3, Robbo & Trent the wing backs. And pretty sure on memory at least one of the 7-0 cl wins was in 4222.
In short and at a guess your objections to the stats seem to actually favour Coutinho, but it's how you/I view things.

Coutinho is a talented footballer. But he is lightweight, weak defensively though he'd press well. He gave us some wonderful goals etc.

He would've done well to stick by Klopp, but he didn't.
For me VVD arriving was much more important at that time and I didnt expect much of a drop off at the other end of the pitch. Think a few were aghast we didnt replace him then, which was fair enough as we have been heavily dependent on our front 3 since.
Imo outside of the CL final he has been missed most in our ability to rotate the front 3 which imo has seen us adapt our pressing intensity up top.

What an utterly ridiculous stat that is! One defeat in 20 od months! Insane!

VVD is the single biggest difference to this side. As good as the keeper is, as amazing as the fullbacks are, as hard working as the midfield is and as prolific the forwards are the difference is VVD.

Absolutely convinced we'd be nowhere near where we are at the moment without him.

[Steveo]

What an utterly ridiculous stat that is! One defeat in 20 od months! Insane!

VVD is the single biggest difference to this side. As good as the keeper is, as amazing as the fullbacks are, as hard working as the midfield is and as prolific the forwards are the difference is VVD.

Absolutely convinced we'd be nowhere near where we are at the moment without him.

It's a good point..

I witnessed his Liverpool debut in the flesh FA Cup v the BS. Salah ( didn't play )and Mane had been away receiving AFCON awards - Mane turned out but was clearly nowhere near his best - VVD in his first game was telling a very wobbly looking Matip where to stand - where to close and at times he was literally screaming at Karius about his positioning and timing.

We won the game 2:1 with a Virgil header. I knew that Coutinho was a goner as he hadn't been named in the squad and must admit I was saddened about it - BUT but I was also pretty sure that the good times were coming for us as I walked away from the ground. I looked at my son and said - we have a proper WC centre back now... The rest is history..

[skyebo]

Looks like VVD is getting a new contract worth £150 k per week. Worth every penny, and more.

[CCTV]

What an utterly ridiculous stat that is! One defeat in 20 od months! Insane!

VVD is the single biggest difference to this side. As good as the keeper is, as amazing as the fullbacks are, as hard working as the midfield is and as prolific the forwards are the difference is VVD.

Absolutely convinced we'd be nowhere near where we are at the moment without him.

There all blocks of greatness on top of each other. VVD was huge and he was joined by Robbo and Trent around that time. VVD had a huge influence on the team play and back line.

Alisson joined the group who were so close to winning the CL and took us on another level again. He wouldn't have those stats had we the lesser back 4.

I think the fullbacks, which we all seem to agree now are the worlds best are underrated in their impact on midfield and attack though.

[CCTV]

Looks like VVD is getting a new contract worth £150 k per week. Worth every penny, and more.

Isnt he already on 170-180kpw ?

[toneata]

Heard he was going to get the same as Mo which is about £200k.

[skyebo]

Isnt he already on 170-180kpw ?

I'm pretty sure it said £150 k on todays gossip column. Whatever they give him, he's earning it.

[CCTV]

Agree with all that CC just think comparing PPG 13 games V 17 doesn’t really work and also if you factor in the different lineups across these games it is very tough to glean anything that tangible - is all I was alluding to.

But he was and still is lightweight - as my old fella would say - a strong wind could blow him over... He was never really going to help out much when we lost the ball and his sale was a catalyst for the team to become far more solid.

There are fair criticisms of those type of stats. I dont think they are as valid over that time frame, but you can still be suspicious of them over that time.

A good contributor can suffer bad luck by being in the team when others are missing and just catch a few losses.
Similarly a good player can look great by being in a great side.

[CCTV]

I'm pretty sure it said £150 k on todays gossip column. Whatever they give him, he's earning it.

Agree, he's our no 4....

Its hoped/expected Alisson will extend his contract soon too.

That'll be them 2 Robbo Trent & Gomez all with fresh contracts and Matip not long after one too.

Then upto Gini to commit as unlike the rest his is up soon enough !

[Nineteenx]

Re other posts on the subject, as I understand it Virgil is set to be offered a 5 year deal at 200k PW absolutely well deserved

[LFC vs PFC]

Bild suggesting we're getting Werner for 46 mill

[Taksin]

When learning skills you're consciously attempting to achieve a goal, mastering a skill means it becomes automatic/unconscious.
Poor technique can become automatic too though and in a few sports this can be body/head position, leaning back when taking a shot a good example, you always want your head to be leaning forward in a positive rather than leaning back as it destabilises.
You can succeed with a goofy body position but you're less likely to when the technique is poor. Rather than transcending technique I'd suggest its transcending consciousness



I’m not sure about transcending consciousness. But transcending a system is definitely possible.
Look - having defenders is part of a system. So is having a goalie. You could play 11 strikers if you felt it would be advantageous. So there’s always a system of sorts. But that’s not what I’m talking about.
I think part of Klopp’s genius is to recognise that the manager can ruin the team. He has to set up certain rules but he knows he has to get the team playing by itself so his emphasis is different to more egotistical managers.
For instance, he currently has two fullbacks who are very offensively minded. But they haven’t been moulded into his offensive-fullbacks system. He has found a way to make use of them because he has them at his disposal.

My golf teacher has recently moved to Texas where he is teaching more and more top pros. He is peaking in his career and is turning around failing careers. But he still thinks most people do better without instruction because so many teachers don’t know what they are doing. He used to teach England juniors and he now recognises that he and his colleagues ruined many careers by trying to get player to fit their limited mould.

It still happens at the top. Sandy Lyle had his career ruined by instruction. My teacher thinks Justin Rose has had his swing ruined and it is only his raw talent that is stopping him from rapid decline.

Bubba Watson in his eyes is the most intelligent golfer out there. He’s never had a lesson but he has an ability to move the ball around in an enviable manner with a completely unorthodox technique based on his ability to act on his desire to hit it a certain way.

In my view Klopp has this team playing in an unorthodox manner. It’s not accurate to say we are high pressing. We are high pressing or low pressing, depending on where we find ourselves. He has the team unreliant on instructions in case the instructions limit their effectiveness.
That doesn’t mean he isn’t influencing everything they do, it just means he is able to allow them to be creative. Being creative means the system has been relegated in relation to the individual talent.

[Nineteenx]

There is definitely a system, there are definite employed tactics against different opposition, I could list a few, but I won't as a lot of sides seem blissfully unaware of them.

The fluidity we saw in midfield with Hendo at No6 was an evolution of the system, but that hasn't been there or ever evident with Fabinho at No6 and from everything I've read that interchanging of position and covering each others positions was orchestrated by Hendo. The fluidity came through the press and counter press and trying to increase the efficiency of it, and put basically, saw each of our midfielders, Hendo in particular, engage in the high press with better timing and to better affect with the other midfielders adjusting their press and counter press positions accordingly and covering the area of the player high pressing and often remaining in the positions they found themselves in for extended periods rather than their starting positions until we had a corner or free kick.

That fluidity is very different from how we play with Fabinho at No6, in which you can see a very clear system that sees all 3 midfielders far more restricted to set positions, Gini LCM Fabinho No6 Hendo RCM. This in turn means our press and counter press are less effective and it is easier for teams to set up to play off certain players to try and counter, this also means our attacking play is more predictable, as opposition players are faced with our midfield players in the same position, where they expect them to be, armed with information on their likely contributions from those positions and how best to try and prevent it.

I think perhaps the debate about our system results from our press and counter press, because we win back possession in areas of the pitch with our players positioned differently than they are in our recognised patterns of play from our possession football, which creates more fluidity and these are situations in which the players are a lot more creative and instinctive, because it isn't a set pattern of play we have worked on and this also makes it a lot more difficult for the opposition to defend as it isn't something they've been drilled/prepared to expect or deal with.

That's one of the major aspects that makes watching this side so exciting and for me is what excites Jurgen most on the touchline, what we do in the number of situations we get each game in which the players have to be creative and instinctive because everything is different from one of our practice patterns of play based on where we won the ball back, who won it and the positions of all our other players. I think there were more instances of this in Fabinho's absence because of the fluidity of the midfield 3 Hendo created, so I'm hoping there will be some guidance and instruction from Jurgen for Fabinho so this evolution of our play continues now he's back.

[Nineteenx]

To illustrate the rotation above, there was a passage of play v the filthy that saw Gini score but be just offside. Hendo had gone from central No6 to high press at inside right FWD area, Oxlade had gone to No6, we won it and it was switched, Gini pressed forward from LCM to an attacking No8 position to support the play, Ox moved across to LCM (he started at RCM) Hendo took a position halfway between No6 and RCM, the ball was then played back to Oxlade at LCM to play a great through ball for Gini on the edge of the area between their RC and RCB

It was created through the fluidity of the midfield 3 that Hendo orchestrated, and in that passage of play Hendo was No6, then in a RFWD postion then in RCM then between No6 and RCM, Oxlade was RCM, then No6 then LCM and Gini was LCM to attacking No8 to inside LFWD with all 3 in great pressing and counter pressing positions but also positioned to become involved in the attack throughout it

[Kev0909]

Why do I think salah will go madrid or somewhere, and we'll end up with sancho and werner?

probably me having nightmares again

[justme]

or your meds haven't kicked in

[LEGS]

Why do I think salah will go madrid or somewhere, and we'll end up with sancho and werner?

probably me having nightmares again

I don’t see it as that would mean they spend at least £400m in the summer.

They will sign Mbappe I think it’s the most open secret in football and they might decide to go for Pogba as well although I’m not certain on that one.

[Taksin]

The fluidity we saw in midfield with Hendo at No6 was an evolution of the system, but that hasn't been there or ever evident with Fabinho at No6 and from everything I've read that interchanging of position and covering each others positions was orchestrated by Hendo.



Was it an evolution of our system or an evolution of our play?

If he brings Fabinho in for a game against say a top Champions league opponent, he's doing it because we can't afford the fluidity, we need a more fixed defensive figure in front of defence. Finding ways of getting our current players more creative/fluid is what he is doing. If he had an identifiable system he'd say something like 'I play with a defensive holding defender - that's Fabinho, and Henderson can fill in for him.'

Obviously the manager makes choices and changes games with different formations and players, that goes without saying. I'd be willing to bet he'll choose Fabinho over Hendo for the trip to the Etihad (or play them together), for example - so long as winning the game is still of primary importance and they're both fit. That's a strategic decision. You could argue that the strategy is the system but I don't believe that's right. I still think Klopp is pioneering a method that takes talented players, trains them to work with each other in a manner that is fluid and can adapt to play in different ways depending on the opposition.

Ultimately the reason we look so good against someone like Real Madrid is because we have talent that is very hard to cope with - Salah, Mané, Alexander Arnold, Robertson, Firminho - held together by the fluidity glue of brilliant players like Henderson, Gini, Alisson and Van Djik.
It's not so much that teams can't cope with our system - they don't even know what it is (and I think that's because it doesn't really exist). They can't cope with the team. That distinction may be meaningless or semantic, but I think there is something substantially different to Klopp's method worth mentioning.

[Nineteenx]

Was it an evolution of our system or an evolution of our play?

If he brings Fabinho in for a game against say a top Champions league opponent, he's doing it because we can't afford the fluidity, we need a more fixed defensive figure in front of defence. Finding ways of getting our current players more creative/fluid is what he is doing. If he had an identifiable system he'd say something like 'I play with a defensive holding defender - that's Fabinho, and Henderson can fill in for him.

The point of the fluidity is it helps evolve and develop all the players as well as the system, the increased efficiency in our press and counter press that it brought meant that teams were barely ever getting a look at our defence and there was always a player at No6.

This gives the players assuming the No6 position more experience of playing there in their reading of the game and awareness from that position and their pressing, counter pressing, passing and creativity, so the players evolve and the system with it.

It isn't yet developed like that with Fabinho as a part of it, however, at the moment it suits us to have more rigid positions and responsibilities in some games against the very toughest Champions League and Premier League opponents. In many of these games Hendo will play RCM more rigidly and assist Trent in dealing with players considered a huge threat on our right. Gini will play LCM a lot more rigidly and protect an area which an opposition's sides more creative midfielder might like to occupy and get space in. Fabinho will usually play his advanced destroyer role centrally in this set up, working with Bobby to stop the opposition centre mids getting on the ball and trying to create and release their forwards and more advanced creative midfielder(s).

This set up works very well for us in such games and is very obviously a clear system with clear defined tactics, the element we need to evolve and develop in this system is both Hendo and Gini and either CB being more aware of also protecting 'the hole' between LCM and RCM that Fabinho's high destroyer role creates as it is an area teams look to release players making forward outside in diagonal runs in.

[toneata]

In actual transfer news, Chelsea agree deal to sign Ziyech from Ajax for €40m.

[Nineteenx]

The point of the fluidity is it helps evolve and develop all the players as well as the system, the increased efficiency in our press and counter press that it brought meant that teams were barely ever getting a look at our defence and there was always a player at No6.

This gives the players assuming the No6 position more experience of playing there in their reading of the game and awareness from that position and their pressing, counter pressing, passing and creativity, so the players evolve and the system with it.

I think this also underlines the evolutionary potential of adding Fabian Ruiz, he is a very talented player who can operate and has experience in big leagues and Champions League as a No8 as Hendo and Gini operate, as an attacking No8 as Keita and Oxlade operate or as a DM, which lends incredible evolution to the rotation of positions of the midfield three.

He is a player who I think would operate primarily in the LCM slot, but will be comfortable and top quality assuming any of the 3 positions as our midfield rotates/interchanges during games.

At LCM I think he will provide a lot more creativity and options and people will quickly forget we ever had Coutinho or that KDB even exists. He is naturally left footed which immediately gives us greater balance. This gives him the ability which we lack at No8 LCM at present to switch play left to right to Salah, Trent or Hendo, it also gives us the ability in our midfield three to switch play right to left and left to right at will, which with our full backs and our forwards movement would obviously be an evolutionary step and create even more solutions for winning games and greater fluidity.

He possesses great vision and a fantastic range of passes, through balls, balls through the channels, balls to release Mane of Robbo in space down the flank, switches, balls to release players from deeper positions and high quality balls over defences from an advanced No8 position and he is also a great crosser of the ball, so it gives us another option for crosses different types of crosses from that area which we currently don't have.

He also has the strength and ability to hold onto the ball and link play in very tight areas we look for in all our midfielders and he is very adept at linking with players, as our midfield links with Mane and Robbo and being the player to go through the channel between RB and RCB himself and is a very good finisher. He is also very good at shooting from distance, which being naturally left footed and with our patterns of play meaning the channel between the oppositions RB and RCB is almost always open, obviously opens up numerous more opportunities.

He will also frequently come in quickly from LCM after making a pass to assume the No10 position, from which his through balls, dinked balls lifted just over defenders and finishing from distance with either foot are exemplary.

People compared him to Keita earlier in the thread, but he's a different kind of player who will offer different things to Naby. He can play as an attacking No8 on either side, but his style is different to Naby's. I'd see him predominantly employed as a more creative force who offers us what Gini does in pressing, counter pressing and holding onto to the play and using it intelligently in very tight areas, him being highly experienced and competent at either No8, No6 or as an attacking No8 either side gives us incredible options also.

Alas, much as I rate him, he's also a player Barca are very keen on, he's Spanish and his national coach is Luis Enrique, so were we interested in him, it might be difficult to acquire him. We have been linked with him and I really hope it's a link we follow through on as I believe he would be an evolutionary player for us and at just 23, he could be with us for 10 years.

[Nineteenx]

In actual transfer news, Chelsea agree deal to sign Ziyech from Ajax for €40m.

Good signing for them, looks like Willian might well be off then, I wouldn't rate him as highly as Willian in Premier League terms, but I do think he could well go on to be a better Premier League player than Willian has been because he'll offer more creativity and goals, I think they'll lose a bit in Willians extra pace and his defensive work and hard running though

[teesred]

In actual transfer news, Chelsea agree deal to sign Ziyech from Ajax for €40m.

Looks like a cracking player. I'd have liked us to have been in for him but he probably wouldn't oust any of the current attackers.

[Nineteenx]

Looks like a cracking player. I'd have liked us to have been in for him but he probably wouldn't oust any of the current attackers.

But it lends the question, where's Willian going? I'd happily take him for a couple of seasons

[LEGS]

Looks like a cracking player. I'd have liked us to have been in for him but he probably wouldn't oust any of the current attackers.

Yeah has played well for a few years now at Ajax ....one factor with him is he could be missing in Jan for the African nations as well.

I think we’ll get Werner and i’d be very happy with that.

[Nineteenx]

Yeah has played well for a few years now at Ajax ....one factor with him is he could be missing in Jan for the African nations as well.

I think we’ll get Werner and i’d be very happy with that.

+1

[Insidious]

Looks like a cracking player. I'd have liked us to have been in for him but he probably wouldn't oust any of the current attackers.

Don't like Chelsea, but that looks like a good fit that will bolster their Top Four chances and anything that keeps United or Mourinho's Tottenham away from Champion's League Football that bit longer works for me.

[justme]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdIteOLwKc4


If we go for another wide player in the summer. I hope we don't end up losing Salah in the next year or 2. Hes a superb talent..

[Insidious]

If we go for another wide player in the summer. I hope we don't end up losing Salah in the next year or 2. Hes a superb talent..

I do think in Summer '21 or '22 we will sell a member of the front three for big money, having assessed which one will decline the quickest/to the greatest degree that another club wants.

Said cash will be re-invested.

I am totally at peace with this - we are in an incredible position and what I would hate to see happen to us would be the "storing up" of trouble - look at what is coming down the line (in terms of the amount of turnover of playing staff required) for a side like Barcelona - I would much rather re-invigorate the side when it's appropriate, akin to how Ferguson did with United every 4-5 years.

Will miss whoever goes, whenever they go, but we can not stand still and allow other clubs to catch up.

[Nineteenx]

I do think in Summer '21 or '22 we will sell a member of the front three for big money, having assessed which one will decline the quickest/to the greatest degree that another club wants.

Said cash will be re-invested.

I am totally at peace with this - we are in an incredible position and what I would hate to see happen to us would be the "storing up" of trouble - look at what is coming down the line (in terms of the amount of turnover of playing staff required) for a side like Barcelona - I would much rather re-invigorate the side when it's appropriate, akin to how Ferguson did with United every 4-5 years.

Will miss whoever goes, whenever they go, but we can not stand still and allow other clubs to catch up.

I think we need to start bringing players in for some positions, we have to remember the current squad are still improving and evolving, and it's taken 3 years of these lads playing together to get to their current level. I think times have changed and I don't think as we play we can bring in players 'off the peg' to replace any of our best 14 or 15 players, I think we have to get those players in starting this summer to contribute immediately, but also at a good age to be approaching their 5 year peak in 2 to 3 years time and it's important we develop them into the team and mentality with the support of the lads we have now, especially for midfield and forwards

[justme]

I just think the likes of Mane and Salah will just be as awesome as thy are now when they are 31/32.
I just worry we wont get players in who have the same quality as them 2..Quality being the amount of end product they produce. goal wise. Hopefully Salah will decide against going the Olympics. A rested Mane and Salah for the start of next season,Will be a frightening prospect for the opposition.

[Nineteenx]

I just think the likes of Mane and Salah will just be as awesome as thy are now when they are 31/32.
I just worry we wont get players in who have the same quality as them 2..Quality being the amount of end product they produce. goal wise. Hopefully Salah will decide against going the Olympics. A rested Mane and Salah for the start of next season,Will be a frightening prospect for the opposition.

I think we'll likely sign Werner so we have four top quality strikers, I thought a lot of people were looking at Werner the wrong way in the game v Bayern, I thought bar missing the chance, which we know happens to the best as we have had a lot of games we won by the odd goal late on we should have won long before they were, he was excellent.

I think people need to imagine that player in the position in our team with our best players around them when they're looking at a player and look at his contributions in things our forwards do that will likely be on the data analysis list of things we look for.

How we play and our mentality and all 11 players always being 'in play' and how hard they work for each other is something I feel is a huge contributory factor to the brilliance of all our players and their ability to play as they do, I don't think most would be able to reach the same levels at another club in a different system with a different manager, we saw that with quite a few of Jurgen's Dortmund players and we saw it with Coutinho as well.

[reddownunder]

I just think the likes of Mane and Salah will just be as awesome as thy are now when they are 31/32.
I just worry we wont get players in who have the same quality as them 2..Quality being the amount of end product they produce. goal wise. Hopefully Salah will decide against going the Olympics. A rested Mane and Salah for the start of next season,Will be a frightening prospect for the opposition.

A lot of Salah and Mane's games are built around speed so when their speed diminishes they won't pose the same threat to defenders. I'd like to think they'll have another 3 seasons at the peak of their powers

[Taksin]

It isn't yet developed like that with Fabinho as a part of it, however, at the moment it suits us to have more rigid positions and responsibilities in some games against the very toughest Champions League and Premier League opponents. In many of these games Hendo will play RCM more rigidly and assist Trent in dealing with players considered a huge threat on our right. Gini will play LCM a lot more rigidly and protect an area which an opposition's sides more creative midfielder might like to occupy and get space in. Fabinho will usually play his advanced destroyer role centrally in this set up, working with Bobby to stop the opposition centre mids getting on the ball and trying to create and release their forwards and more advanced creative midfielder(s).



Again, you're describing how we play. There is no doubt that we play football. We are playing great football - it obviously has to all fit together.

But there is so much that happens on the pitch that doesn't exactly fit these descriptions. From any weird shape, odd position, unexpected outcome, we can turn around and suddenly look strong. The 'system' is designed to make us completely unreliant on instruction, desired shape, limited roles, preferred methods. We defend and we attack - in reality the team is operating very close to the boundary of chaos.

I think that is the intention. The genius is explicitly setting out to create that ability in training. What you're doing, as I see it, is trying to describe it as if it were a clear system, like describing the patterns of water in a waterfall. There are patterns, from certain perspectives, but they are ultimately accidental - there are no known laws for the behaviour of turbulence. Obviously Klopp wants shape and some predictability but ultimately he is trying to set the team free to play instinctively, flowing like water. That's why it doesn't help the opposition to identify the system they are up against, it will liquify itself in response to whatever method they use to counter it.

[LEGS]

I just think the likes of Mane and Salah will just be as awesome as thy are now when they are 31/32.
I just worry we wont get players in who have the same quality as them 2..Quality being the amount of end product they produce. goal wise. Hopefully Salah will decide against going the Olympics. A rested Mane and Salah for the start of next season,Will be a frightening prospect for the opposition.

I know you mean I guess it depends what they are like next season some look at players at 30-32 & think that is it.

Completely wrong like at Messi/Ronaldo both still producing the goods and like the two above keep themselves in fantastic shape.....its why the likes of Maddison as an example wont reach the top going to Dubai getting smashed I cant imagine any of them 4 or an Mbappe doing that.

Also on Salah since he joined us he is miles ahead on goals/assists than anyone else, he has scored around 70 PL goals and 24-25 of them were in data terms key goals either putting us 1-0 up or winning goals in a 2-1, 1-0, 3-2 etc he is a huge player for us and he is greedy/selfish at times but his stats speak for themselves and this coming from me who thinks Mane is better !

Anyway Timo will be here soon to ease the workload !

[Nineteenx]

Again, you're describing how we play. There is no doubt that we play football. We are playing great football - it obviously has to all fit together.

But there is so much that happens on the pitch that doesn't exactly fit these descriptions. From any weird shape, odd position, unexpected outcome, we can turn around and suddenly look strong. The 'system' is designed to make us completely unreliant on instruction, desired shape, limited roles, preferred methods. We defend and we attack - in reality the team is operating very close to the boundary of chaos.

No it isn't Taskin, I think you're a million miles off, we have a very clear system and way of playing and very clear practiced passages of play, we are better A LOT better without the ball than any team in world football, when we regain possession in the oppositions final third is when the players make it up themselves, the players have obvious clear instruction on breaking and who leads breaks from regains of possession from opposition set pieces.

The passage you quoted absolutely did not lean at all to your ideas, it presented and very clear and rigid formation, a very clear set up with players in set positions with very defined responsibilities, you're confusing yourself with what happens when we win the ball back in the oppositions final third

[Taksin]

The passage you quoted absolutely did not lean at all to your ideas, it presented and very clear and rigid formation, a very clear set up with players in set positions with very defined responsibilities, you're confusing yourself with what happens when we win the ball back in the oppositions final third



No I'm not - it's actually when we are attacking from our own goal line that the chaos looks most inexplicable and brilliant. When a defender passes to Ma Salah running at a hundred miles an hour from his own corner flag it doesn't look that systematic, even though it is by your definition. But you are telling me I am wrong without understanding my point. That's fine, it's virtually paradoxical, which is why I tried to explain using golf metaphors. I'm not sure if you play golf.

I agree with you that we are better than any other team in the world when off the ball. I agree we play three at the front and four in defence, that we have some clear instructions given to either Fabinho or Henderson. I agree he changes formation during games to alter events. I agree things are working really well with the team cohesion, training and automatic activity, tactics even.

What I'm saying is there's something else happening more important that these things. What you're doing happens in golf all the time - PGA registered golf instructors analyse the top golfers, think they understand what is happening (which they do) but don't realise that it can't be replicated in whoever their student is. That's because everyone is different - they end up ruining people's careers that way.

Obviously you are not doing that but what you're saying about the clear system is at odds with what Minamino said the other day - 'Klopp told me to play exactly the way I want to play'. That is genius. And he isn't saying that to Minamino in the way 'Arry Redknapp used to say it to his players - 'Go on son, get out there and enjoy yourself'. He is much cleverer than that. He is a genius and Redknapp wasn't.

He is, in my view, operating a meta-system, which is virtually systemless. That's its beauty. There are only a few footballing meta-systems I can think of; Ajax's 'total football', our very own 'pass and move', Barcelona's 'tiki taka'. They got those names because something was happening beyond the normal rules of formations and systems. We can agree that they are in some way a system, but they also describe something else happening, which was credited with creating unusual levels of success. That's what I am trying to describe with Klopp's method.

This team is almost happier when the whole game is out of shape and chaotic. It functions better. We are dying for teams to attack us - not because we are a counter attacking team but because every player is dying to make sense out of chaos. We are better in chaos than any other team and love it when they over extend themselves. These features are very unusual and they stop teams that are more skilful and powerful, like Man City from knowing what the hell to do against us.

Anyway, that's my view. I don't mind if you disagree. Just thought it was worth saying.

[Nineteenx]

We'll agree to disagree Taskin, I think there are numerous elements of freedom and creativity and players working together on things to evolve the system and themselves, but I think we have always had a system under Jurgen, he's given the players freedom to put ideas forward and try to work things out, but the chaos element comes from how good we are without the ball and the positions in which we win it and that comes from the system we play, what comes after it is free and creative because they're not rehearsed situations and causes chaos for opposition sides because they can't plan for those situations.

There has been a clear evolution of the system and how we play, Jurgen, the staff and players have put a lot of hard work into rotation of the front three this season in particular, 2 seasons ago we were playing quite rigidly with our front 3 and what they did, it worked, but as teams got better at trying to stop our players in their set positions a lot of games were like a war of attrition, we'd keep doing the same things in the same areas, quite predictably, until one of them came off, that's all changed now, but it has been worked on as part of our system

[dicko1969]

I just think the likes of Mane and Salah will just be as awesome as thy are now when they are 31/32.
I just worry we wont get players in who have the same quality as them 2..Quality being the amount of end product they produce. goal wise. Hopefully Salah will decide against going the Olympics. A rested Mane and Salah for the start of next season,Will be a frightening prospect for the opposition.

Firmino more so because he isnt about pace

[justincredible]

Maybe buy a player or two from City? KdB anyone? Hahaha....

[miller0863]

We have the funds Justin, where else would he go in the Prem? Only us, Barca or Real are realistic possibilities and he is a Red so if the ban sticks we should definitely try it on. He is the one player in World Football who would instantly improve our first 11.

[justincredible]

We have the funds Justin, where else would he go in the Prem? Only us, Barca or Real are realistic possibilities and he is a Red so if the ban sticks we should definitely try it on. He is the one player in World Football who would instantly improve our first 11.

He was spotted this morning down his local launderette giving his official LFC duvet set a good spin & dry.

It's on!

[justincredible]

A cheeky £40m bid maybe?

[Balinkay]

"Where else would he go in the Prem?" - interesting question. Assuming the CAS doesn't overturn the decision and KDB decides to leave that is.

1) Arsenal - can't see him going to a team languishing mid table in mid Feb. Also I'm not sure how keen they'd be to pay his wages, considering Özil is still there.
2) Chelsea - he migth fancy a return to London, but they've just got Ziyech and aren't exactly purring under Frank. Still, they could pay him and he might feel he has a point to prove. Kind of unlikely, but not impossible.
3) Spurs - they've got the money from Eriksen, which has also freed up wages. But they've not won a trophy in ten years, and it's Mou. Can't see it.
4) United - they'd pay him and they'd want him. It's not impossible. But crossing city borders like that...? Whooh, tough.
5) Us - he'd be joining one of the best teams in the world; probably PL champions at that point. Still, a bitter rival. He's 29 though - zero sell on value and he'd cost a fortune. I don't see it unless he's extremely cheap. Say 20m.

Barca, Real, Bayern are all possibilities, as is PSG, Juve...

Plenty of clubs would want him. But if he does stay in the Prem, we might just be, as you say, the best option around.

[miller0863]

+£1 justin

[toneata]

Fantastic player, feed him a few pies and he could be our Molby.

[skyebo]

A cheeky £40m bid maybe?

There's cheeky, and there's insulting. He's much better than anyone we have.

[Balinkay]

There's cheeky, and there's insulting.

Good. :D

[Steveo]

Matheus Pereira da Silva

Anyone seen him play?

Way Way WAY too good for the Championship and when he comes up with West Brom his price will treble... Such a composed quality footballer - scary to think what he could do with better players around him... Well worth a punt for me

[Aldo1988]

Think we should take a good look at Jay Dasilva at Bristol City. Watching the Leeds v Bristol City game and he looks like a tidy player. Only 21 so would be a good back up for Robbo.

[Insidious]

Maybe buy a player or two from City? KdB anyone? Hahaha....

De Bruyne is an insane player.

29 years old though this coming June though and some injury issues in the last 18 months - wages will be big.

Doesn't feel like an FSG signing. More likely that we spot a gem in the Championship.

[Balinkay]

If he has a clause in his contract that lets him leave on a free, he'd be more up FSG's alley.

[Nineteenx]

De Bruyne is an insane player.

29 years old though this coming June though and some injury issues in the last 18 months - wages will be big.

Doesn't feel like an FSG signing. More likely that we spot a gem in the Championship.

Have a feeling we might follow up on our Fabian Ruiz interest or another similar player who can score and create like KDB but who's also a lot younger and a lot better defensively and at pressing and counter pressing. The runs and movement and opportunities to pick out players or score from distance are all there in how we play for such a player, it would suit us a lot better to have a left footer who'd operate at LCM from the patterns and movement in our play in my opinion

[Kev0909]

Leicester make approach for Liverpool's Adam Lallana

Bye bye

all the best, but it's time for you to goooooooo

[reddownunder]

Leicester make approach for Liverpool's Adam Lallana

Bye bye

all the best, but it's time for you to goooooooo

Yep I'd prefer to let Jones get league minutes over Lallana for the run in

[TheDOC1979]

We should’ve made a sly deal with red bull to buy Haaland. This kid is tearing things up in Germany, bumming all types of teams.

[Insidious]

Yep I'd prefer to let Jones get league minutes over Lallana for the run in

I wouldn't mind Minamino getting those minutes just now.

[reddownunder]

We should’ve made a sly deal with red bull to buy Haaland. This kid is tearing things up in Germany, bumming all types of teams.

He looks a real talent and is scoring all different types of goals. It's early days but his determination and ability to find the back of the net could see him become the best natural goal scorer in the world in the next few years

[reddownunder]

I wouldn't mind Minamino getting those minutes just now.

What do we think Minamino's best position is? Wide forward, midfielder, centre forward?

[southernboy]

We should’ve made a sly deal with red bull to buy Haaland. This kid is tearing things up in Germany, bumming all types of teams.

Thank fuck he didn't end up at manu.

[LEGS]

We should’ve made a sly deal with red bull to buy Haaland. This kid is tearing things up in Germany, bumming all types of teams.

He can go in the summer of 2021 for around £60m so he will be someone who we monitor like every other big club in Europe especially at that price if he carries on scoring 25-30 goals a season.

[toneata]

I'm pretty sure he'll get a new contract long before the summer of 2021 at this rate.

[toneata]

We should’ve made a sly deal with red bull to buy Haaland. This kid is tearing things up in Germany, bumming all types of teams.

Good move for him at this stage of his career, doubt any of the top PL teams would have offered him a stating place.

[TheDOC1979]

He looks a real talent and is scoring all different types of goals. It's early days but his determination and ability to find the back of the net could see him become the best natural goal scorer in the world in the next few years

Absolutely. The kid is only 19 ffs

[TheDOC1979]

Thank fuck he didn't end up at manu.

He would have immediately improved their team no doubt. Luckily they’re shit at director/ manager level. Long may that continue

[LEGS]

I'm pretty sure he'll get a new contract long before the summer of 2021 at this rate.

He will get offered one but he might not accept it.

He has a 5 year deal but has this clause in of £60m that was probably a factor in going to Dortmund.

He might like it in Germany and stay who knows ?

[Nineteenx]

What do we think Minamino's best position is? Wide forward, midfielder, centre forward?

I was surprised Jurgen used him as a No9 in Bobby's role, I don't think he has or ever will have the strength for that, I see him as an option for LCM or RCM attacking No8 coming infield into advanced positions into the pockets of space he finds so brilliantly and going to the corner and in certain games perhaps at RFWD or LFWD operating differently to how Mane and Mo do, dropping off the looking to be found and to link things from the pockets, I think that would be the best way to have him kind of operate as a kind of 'Bobby' No9 start him LFWD or RFWD dropping back into those areas with the movement of the other 2 forwards meaning they're a 2 in front of him

[Nineteenx]

Werner, Fabian Ruiz and Soumare please :D

[Kev0909]

Have you seen this shit with barca?

Barcelona have announced the emergency signing of former Middlesbrough forward Martin Braithwaite until June 2024.

basically relegates Leganes....

What a joke

Why do they have special permission outside the fucking window for a STRIKER? goalkeeper ok, but A STRIKER!??!

[Balinkay]

Because they're special. They've come to embody most of what's wrong with football. I really really despise them.

[Aldo1988]

Have you seen this shit with barca?

Barcelona have announced the emergency signing of former Middlesbrough forward Martin Braithwaite until June 2024.

basically relegates Leganes....

What a joke

Why do they have special permission outside the fucking window for a STRIKER? goalkeeper ok, but A STRIKER!??!

Leganes have requested the same permission as they have lost their striker but have been turned down by La Liga, what a fucking joke.

[Balinkay]

Leganes have requested the same permission as they have lost their striker but have been turned down by La Liga, what a fucking joke.

Ooof course they have. Fucking shut the fucking club down. They're a disgrace to the sport. I hope they never win a game again. They're shittier than usual as it is. And when Messi retires, they'll be in far bigger trouble than Real were post Ronaldo.

Fucking clowns.

[LEGS]

Have you seen this shit with barca?

Barcelona have announced the emergency signing of former Middlesbrough forward Martin Braithwaite until June 2024.

basically relegates Leganes....

What a joke

Why do they have special permission outside the fucking window for a STRIKER? goalkeeper ok, but A STRIKER!??!

In La Liga if an outfield player is out for 5 months or more you can request to sign one emergency signing outside the window.

It isnt right but its not like they would get anyone top class.

I assume Leganes didnt have to offload the player but maybe the finances were a driving factor.

They are still a good side but they are on the slide, Messi wont be their much longer and they have wasted hundreds of millions too.

[skyebo]

In La Liga if an outfield player is out for 5 months or more you can request to sign one emergency signing outside the window.

It isnt right but its not like they would get anyone top class.

I assume Leganes didnt have to offload the player but maybe the finances were a driving factor.

They are still a good side but they are on the slide, Messi wont be their much longer and they have wasted hundreds of millions too.

If they are the rules, it seems all Barca are doing is playing by them.

[CCTV]

If they are the rules, it seems all Barca are doing is playing by them.

Aye, iirc they can only sign players from spanish clubs under the ruling.

[Balinkay]

If they are the rules, it seems all Barca are doing is playing by them.

I know I know. It just infuriates me.

@CC - yes, i think that's right. The fee is also capped at like 12m.

[BlackSalmon]

I assume Leganes didnt have to offload the player but maybe the finances were a driving factor.


All players in Spain have a release clause in their contract, so Barca triggered this. I think they just looked down the scoring charts at who had a reasonable release clause and went for them. Barca have been in turmoil for years behind the scenes, there recruitment has been poor for a while now.

[justme]

Hopefully we keep hold of Adrian.or we will need a quality back up. The idea of karius returning and Alisson being out injured. Is the stuff of nightmares

[toneata]

There's no chance Karius would be no2 here now, even if Adrian were to leave......he's proved in Turkey he's not up to it.

[Nineteenx]

There's no chance Karius would be no2 here now, even if Adrian were to leave......he's proved in Turkey he's not up to it.

He's proved he's a Turkey and not up to it ;)

[Steveo]

Sweet as a Goose...!

[justincredible]

He's no Bruce GOBBLEaar. That's for sure...

[southernboy]

In La Liga if an outfield player is out for 5 months or more you can request to sign one emergency signing outside the window.

It isnt right but its not like they would get anyone top class.

I assume Leganes didnt have to offload the player but maybe the finances were a driving factor.

They are still a good side but they are on the slide, Messi wont be their much longer and they have wasted hundreds of millions too.

That actually sounds useful. Imagine having that when Sturridge was on the books :encouragement:

[Taksin]

Sturridge is still to break his duck in Turkey

[Steveo]

He's no Bruce GOBBLEaar. That's for sure...

I don’t know WATTLE you’re on about...

[skyebo]

Sturridge is still to break his duck in Turkey

He was the most natural finisher we had when he was here, injuries were the reason they looked to replace him. A fit Sturridge will get the goals if they play to his strengths.

[Taksin]

He was the most natural finisher we had when he was here, injuries were the reason they looked to replace him. A fit Sturridge will get the goals if they play to his strengths.

I agree. There’s no reason he can’t score goals over there. After all, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander

[eggy81]

I agree. There’s no reason he can’t score goals over there. After all, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander

Think that flew over his head.

[Steveo]

Think that flew over his head.


Karius is the biggest flapper.

[justincredible]

In fairness, Karius made sure we got a good stuffing in the 2018 CL final. He really was different gravy that night.

[Aldo1988]

Good news lad, Besiktas don't want him and he's coming back in the summer. Maybe that should have been Beaksiktas?

[Aldo1988]

https://talksport.com/football/672707/loris-karius-liverpool-return-besiktas-loan/

He won't be back for long though.

[Nineteenx]

https://talksport.com/football/672707/loris-karius-liverpool-return-besiktas-loan/

He won't be back for long though.

Let's not count our chickens before they've hatched, I wouldn't be crowing about it just yet

[Steveo]

Un-flocking believable this thread - Raven lunatics the lot of you

[skyebo]

Un-flocking believable this thread - Raven lunatics the lot of you

Haha, we have a winner.

[Nineteenx]

I just wish he'd flamingo he's become something of an albatross

[Balinkay]

Un-flocking believable this thread - Raven lunatics the lot of you

Don't act the tit!

[Steveo]

Don't act the tit!


Toucan play at that game..

[justme]

Why did the turkey cross the road? to prove it wasn't a chicken:distrust:

[teesred]

Why did the turkey cross the road? to prove it wasn't a chicken:distrust:

I've got your coat.........

[miller0863]

Leave it, he doesn’t deserve it.

[Balinkay]

Toucan play at that game..

Parroting empty threats… Hawk quaint!

[Steveo]

That’s me Bustard... :D

[eggy81]

If he fecks off to Holland he might seagullit somewhere.

[RedNoodle]

Owl go cuckoo if I have to swallow Karius coming back to us. I'll be happy as a lark, or even as high as a kite wren he's gone. His goose is well and truly cooked. He's was fowl for us and he's been the same whist in Turkey. Have you seen his attempt at facial hair? He's not so much "bum fluff beard boy" as a bearded tit. Hopefully we never make a similar mistake again. Once bittern twice shy.

If he went before the law for crimes against goalkeeping, the jury would declare him "guilty as charged mallard". He's been robin a living as a goalkeeper for years. What a cock.

[Balinkay]

That's a well orkestrelted reply, Noods! His failures in goal are in stork contrast with eagle-eyed Alisson. Let's hope he doesn't turn into potoo!

[justme]

Could be worse,. I guess he could eat bird shit like Ashley Young

[Steveo]

His failures in goal are in stork contrast with eagle-eyed Alisson. Let's hope he doesn't turn into potoo!

Cheep shot there Bali, he’d still make a booby out of it - puffin too hard trying to keep his heron.

[Balinkay]

Cheep shot there Bali, he’d still make a booby out of it - puffin too hard trying to keep his heron.

Well whatever happens, I'm sure he'll take a thrushing off opposition fans! I hope he doesn't just bury his head in the sand becassowary of that.

[Steveo]

As long as he doesn’t emulate his Chicken Kiev... :D

See this is what happens when we have to wait Tuesday - Monday to see our beloved Reds..

[Balinkay]

As long as he doesn’t emulate his Chicken Kiev... :D

See this is what happens when we have to wait Tuesday - Monday to see our beloved Reds..

Yup. Though if the Mighty Reds aren't on, I'd take watching City lose to some minnow at a finch.

[Steveo]

What a Cockatoo....



https://media.giphy.com/media/kdiLf3LHFIubA6vDC1/giphy.gif

[ianlfc]

You're all quackers 😃😃

[Steveo]

https://youtu.be/pdz8zU48Zxk

[Nineteenx]

https://media.giphy.com/media/kdiLf3LHFIubA6vDC1/giphy.gif

[reddownunder]

Werner, Fabian Ruiz and Soumare please :D

Real are rumoured to be sniffing around for your boy Fabian Ruiz

[Steveo]

Maybe we can peck him up on the cheep?


Sorry...

[Nineteenx]

Real are rumoured to be sniffing around for your boy Fabian Ruiz

Real are always rumoured to be sniffing around everyone, Barca are rumoured to be sniffing around him too, can't see where he fits in at either, both have lost the plot, they seem to be just trying to randomly buy good players that they've already got and randomly bought good players for in the same positions

[Taksin]

you're just parroting information from Futbol Marcá now

[Insidious]

For clarity, I don't think we get Mbappe (boooo!)

But I must ask - why is so much of the stuff about him and Real Madrid citing a desire to work with Zidane?

Real Madrid managers aren't exactly guaranteed to keep their jobs. If Barca win the League and Real get knocked out of the Champion's League by City, there's every chance their mob call for another sacking, in which case Zidane ain't there to "lure" Kylian.

[justme]

Mbappe is not worth the money. No football on earth is worth 250 million + 500 thousand a week in wages..if that's the going rate. Good luck if any team wants to pay that.

[Nineteenx]

Mbappe is not worth the money. No football on earth is worth 250 million + 500 thousand a week in wages..if that's the going rate. Good luck if any team wants to pay that.

Werner's scored more goals in a far superior league that is far more competitive, he works a damn site harder in closing down, recoveries and getting in front of defenders left, right and centre to win and control the ball and help his team build from there too, all aspects every one of our front 3 also excel at which MBappae does not

[dicko1969]

1 Mbappe =

Sancho
Werner
Soumaré
Upamecano

And we are good for 2 seasons more

Very much looks if clubs can be found;

Shaq Lovren Lallana Wilson Grujic Origi likely to have a new challenge

[Nineteenx]

Karius returns to the club in the summer and asks Jurgen for another chance in goal :D

KmR8fzQjuD8

[skyebo]

1 Mbappe =

Sancho
Werner
Soumaré
Upamecano

And we are good for 2 seasons more

Very much looks if clubs can be found;

Shaq Lovren Lallana Wilson Grujic Origi likely to have a new challenge

I don't rate Sancho, he can't even get a regular place in an average England team.

[LFC-DPG]

I don't rate Sancho, he can't even get a regular place in an average England team.

Lol he’s 19.

Trent is in the same position with England and we all know how good he is

[toneata]

The Athletic saying Werner has received 'proposals' from Barca and Utd but is waiting for Klopp.

That release clause ends in April, so not much time Jurgen.

[Kev0909]

won't be a popular opinion or what I want, but I have a feeling we may lose 1 of the front 3 in the summer, probably salah.

not worried though, we'll spend the money well if the worst happens.

[justme]

The Spanish media are at it again. Now they are confident of signing Salah.I thought Mane was going there?? Now Salah

[skyebo]

The Spanish media are at it again. Now they are confident of signing Salah.I thought Mane was going there?? Now Salah

There's no need for either of them to leave, it's not like they need to win big trophies elsewhere as they are doing that here. They will also be getting paid well, another reason to stay put.

[Kev0909]

There's no need for either of them to leave, it's not like they need to win big trophies elsewhere as they are doing that here. They will also be getting paid well, another reason to stay put.

Not really, some other clubs might double what we pay in wages.

You guys expect loyalty lol?

Might think they've won everything here they can, and want a new challenge.

[justme]

There's no need for either of them to leave, it's not like they need to win big trophies elsewhere as they are doing that here. They will also be getting paid well, another reason to stay put.

Yep, and they are also soulless clubs.Nothing better than admiration from the fans at Anfield..No matter what that clown Neville says. most of us all admire Salah.We don't wanna lose Salah at his age hes only 27 the next 4/5 years will be his best period.

[skyebo]

Not really, some other clubs might double what we pay in wages.

You guys expect loyalty lol?

Might think they've won everything here they can, and want a new challenge.

You've got a better chance of hanging on to players if you are winning trophies, it's what most of them are in the game for. Do they want to show their kids all the medals they won, or their bank statements ? Money shouldn't be their motivation, not when they can already buy whatever they want when they get to this level.

[Nineteenx]

There's no need for either of them to leave, it's not like they need to win big trophies elsewhere as they are doing that here. They will also be getting paid well, another reason to stay put.

Also they all talk about being at Liverpool as being part of a family, they are all well aware of the cautionary tale of Coutinho and how much more brutal the Spanish media are and that they will be under constant attack and scrutiny of a completely unwarranted and absurd level on any perceived under performing

[Kev0909]

you're in dreamland if you think we will keep them all until 30+

1) Do you want to be like real madrid are atm aging team?
2) No chance would they stay here they're not local lads, salah at least WILL move to spain at some point, for some reason it's the biggest footballing move still, real madrid and barca, and that's just how it is.

But we shall see

Sancho and werner should be the future, mind

I can almost say, 100% salah won't be here in 2 seasons, this season and next at max, you can quote me on this

[skyebo]

you're in dreamland if you think we will keep them all until 30+

1) Do you want to be like real madrid are atm aging team?
2) No chance would they stay here they're not local lads, salah at least WILL move to spain at some point, for some reason it's the biggest footballing move still, real madrid and barca, and that's just how it is.

But we shall see

Sancho and werner should be the future, mind

I can almost say, 100% salah won't be here in 2 seasons, this season and next at max, you can quote me on this

If they choose to go, we replace them. The club is bigger than any player, that goes for any club. The difference now would be, I expect the club and Klopp to bring decent ones in to keep the club at the top.

[CCTV]

Not really, some other clubs might double what we pay in wages.

You guys expect loyalty lol?

Might think they've won everything here they can, and want a new challenge.

If Salah left for Madrid we could buy Mbappe, Werner & Sancho 😎

[Aldo1988]

you're in dreamland if you think we will keep them all until 30+

1) Do you want to be like real madrid are atm aging team?
2) No chance would they stay here they're not local lads, salah at least WILL move to spain at some point, for some reason it's the biggest footballing move still, real madrid and barca, and that's just how it is.

But we shall see

Sancho and werner should be the future, mind

I can almost say, 100% salah won't be here in 2 seasons, this season and next at max, you can quote me on this

As long as Jurgen is here with the backing of FSG, I have confidence that we could replace Salah with another gem of a player at probably half the price.

[Steveo]

If Salah left for Madrid we could buy Mbappe, Werner & Sancho 😎

Salah would be a HUGE loss... We often don’t know what we have til it’s gone.

[skyebo]

Salah would be a HUGE loss... We often don’t know what we have til it’s gone.

Unlike some of the others who thought they were too good for us, if he or Mane move on, at least they played a big part in helping us get the big trophies so they should go with everyone wishing them well.

[teesred]

Me and a mate were discussing Sancho and Werner lasnite. I said I think Werner is nailed on, woulnt be shocked if we got Sancho if not Werner.
Also said I'd be really gutted to see any of the 3 we have go. Really gutted as its pretty much the best forward line in the world. I'd hate to lose any of our starting 11 but it obviously will happen and will need to happen purely for evolution purposes.

[miller0863]

We won’t really know how good Salah is until he’s gone and we see how his replacement does, playing with the same players in the same system (or lack of it) with the same manager. Someone could come in and collate an even more impressive set of stats, or he could look like Stuart Downing who the fuck knows.

One thing is for sure, Salah has most definitely benefitted from playing in a World Class front three with the two best attacking full backs in World football. He’s good, he’s very very good .... some of the time but I don’t feel he is totally irreplaceable, not by our current recruitment set up which has been absolutely incredible since Klopp came in.
I’ll wish Mo well if and when he goes, his stats (particularly in his first season) are incredible but I won’t be crying into my beer.

[justme]

Salah like Mane, would be hard for me to see them playing for any one else. I felt that way when Suarez left. But ive got over that now the little shit :D

[miller0863]

Be more upset to see Mané go to be fair.

[justme]

Is there a dislike of Salah in some quarters? I know Carragher was saying Salah was under appreciated. I know his body language doesn't appear to be the best. but I think that's because hes quite reserved in how he is as a person. Doesn't mean he doesn't care.. I still remember when he won man of the match and he gave his man of the match gift to Milner for his 600th appearance.
Some fans may want him to show more emotion. But as long as hes doing his job that's fine.

[Kev0909]

Me and a mate were discussing Sancho and Werner lasnite. I said I think Werner is nailed on, woulnt be shocked if we got Sancho if not Werner.
Also said I'd be really gutted to see any of the 3 we have go. Really gutted as its pretty much the best forward line in the world. I'd hate to lose any of our starting 11 but it obviously will happen and will need to happen purely for evolution purposes.

We'll only get sancho if that happened, if we got werner too.

[reddownunder]

Does anyone watch Sancho play regularly? His stats are impressive for such a young age but most seem to think he is overrated

[Kev0909]

Does anyone watch Sancho play regularly? His stats are impressive for such a young age but most seem to think he is overrated

he's only 19

I don't think he's overrated

if he was 29 perhaps

[toneata]

We won’t really know how good Salah is until he’s gone and we see how his replacement does, playing with the same players in the same system (or lack of it) with the same manager. Someone could come in and collate an even more impressive set of stats, or he could look like Stuart Downing who the fuck knows.

One thing is for sure, Salah has most definitely benefitted from playing in a World Class front three with the two best attacking full backs in World football. He’s good, he’s very very good .... some of the time but I don’t feel he is totally irreplaceable, not by our current recruitment set up which has been absolutely incredible since Klopp came in.
I’ll wish Mo well if and when he goes, his stats (particularly in his first season) are incredible but I won’t be crying into my beer.


In his first season with us, arguably his best, I wouldn't have called Robbo or Trent world class back then. Once he settled in, his form exploded, scoring from everywhere and to be fair to him, it hasn't dropped that much in all his time here.

I'm like most who would probably say if one had to go Mo's name would be top of the list but I do think we'd miss him massively if he were to go say this summer. As good as our recruitment is now, I don't see anyone coming in and putting in the numbers he did in his first season or anywhere close.

I'd like at least one more season out of the 3 of them before we even contemplate breaking them up, because they are without doubt the best forward line in the world right now.

[eggy81]

It goes to show the standard mo has set here that people think hes the most disposable of our front 3 now. I find it incredible to be honest though I know everyone has differing opinions but I think his movement and work rate and intelligence is the catalyst for so much of what we do. It's a pity he isn't more clinical alright but if we lose him I think genuinely we lose one of the worlds best players.

[LEGS]

Is there a dislike of Salah in some quarters? I know Carragher was saying Salah was under appreciated. I know his body language doesn't appear to be the best. but I think that's because hes quite reserved in how he is as a person. Doesn't mean he doesn't care.. I still remember when he won man of the match and he gave his man of the match gift to Milner for his 600th appearance.
Some fans may want him to show more emotion. But as long as hes doing his job that's fine.

Not by the fans they love him you can tell this by singing his name at games.

I rate him highly his stats over 3 years are incredible he is well ahead of anyone in EPL for what the data people call influential goals eg winning goals.
First goal of game he has 24 of them out of 68 goals incredible really.

Will he go I dont know he might do but I think Coutinho may have opened their eyes more.

Madrid are a mess after 60 mins against City they had the stamina of a bloke finishing his 8th pint of Peroni....yes they are a glamour club but they look awful without CR7.

Barca arent great but are in same boat when Messi goes they like Madrid have a squad that is way past its peak.

Werner will be here soon to help the workload.

[Aldo1988]

Is there a dislike of Salah in some quarters? I know Carragher was saying Salah was under appreciated. I know his body language doesn't appear to be the best. but I think that's because hes quite reserved in how he is as a person. Doesn't mean he doesn't care.. I still remember when he won man of the match and he gave his man of the match gift to Milner for his 600th appearance.
Some fans may want him to show more emotion. But as long as hes doing his job that's fine.

I love Mo and hope he stays until he cant play at the same level he is doing anymore but I do think teams are more wise to how he plays and probably spend a lot of their game time prep working out how to stop him. It might be the reason why Mane has been hitting top form since Mo's first season. Not to say that Mane isn't world class, he clearly is but I think he might get the same treatment as Mo get's after this season (then it might be Mo's turn to shine again ;)).

[Steveo]

Precisely - Mané and Bobby benefitting from close and concerted marking of Salah - if teams try to do the same on Mané next term then Salah and Bobby profit - you can’t do it to all 3 for 90 minutes - this is the power of the 3.

Don’t want to see it broken up at all - would love it to be added to - another fab 4 maybe... but honestly would be absolutely gutted to see Mo leave - or any of them..

[Aldo1988]

Precisely - Mané and Bobby benefitting from close and concerted marking of Salah - if teams try to do the same on Mané next term then Salah and Bobby profit - you can’t do it to all 3 for 90 minutes - this is the power of the 3.

Don’t want to see it broken up at all - would love it to be added to - another fab 4 maybe... but honestly would be absolutely gutted to see Mo leave - or any of them..

This is why I like what I'm hearing from Werner. He doesn't seem to think that he should be straight into the front 3 and has a lot of respect for the club and manager. I also think he'd suit our style of play and could fit into the front 3, if he gets in and replaces one of the others when the fall out of form, then it'd be up to them to win their place back!

[toneata]

Me and a mate were discussing Sancho and Werner lasnite. I said I think Werner is nailed on, woulnt be shocked if we got Sancho if not Werner.
Also said I'd be really gutted to see any of the 3 we have go. Really gutted as its pretty much the best forward line in the world. I'd hate to lose any of our starting 11 but it obviously will happen and will need to happen purely for evolution purposes.

I think Werner is as good as done too.

I don't think we'll see a Sancho or Havertz signing (£100m+) this summer, assuming (hoping) the front 3 stay.

I think it's also a reason why some are getting twitchy about Salah, they see the shiny new turbo charged Sancho and want that now. Timing is out on this one as you have 2 of the hottest prospects in world football almost certainly moving in the summer but we don't need them and they wouldn't come here to sit on the bench. And as I have said before, I wouldn't swap out any of our front 3 for anyone in the world the world right now............including the French kid.

[justme]

Not by the fans they love him you can tell this by singing his name at games.

I rate him highly his stats over 3 years are incredible he is well ahead of anyone in EPL for what the data people call influential goals eg winning goals.
First goal of game he has 24 of them out of 68 goals incredible really.

Will he go I dont know he might do but I think Coutinho may have opened their eyes more.

Madrid are a mess after 60 mins against City they had the stamina of a bloke finishing his 8th pint of Peroni....yes they are a glamour club but they look awful without CR7.

Barca arent great but are in same boat when Messi goes they like Madrid have a squad that is way past its peak.

Werner will be here soon to help the workload.

yep :D

[justme]

I love Mo and hope he stays until he cant play at the same level he is doing anymore but I do think teams are more wise to how he plays and probably spend a lot of their game time prep working out how to stop him. It might be the reason why Mane has been hitting top form since Mo's first season. Not to say that Mane isn't world class, he clearly is but I think he might get the same treatment as Mo get's after this season (then it might be Mo's turn to shine again ;)).

The opponents are basically holding Salah down a lot of the time.he should get more free kicks than he does. The west ham game some clown was following him around the pitch. It appeared Moyes had someone man mark him where ever he went for part of the game.

[ianlfc]

Anyone happy to see the back of one of our front 3 needs a good kick in the balls.

[Taksin]

Anyone happy to see the back of one of our front 3 needs a good kick in the balls.

A man after my own heart

[ianlfc]

A man after my own heart

I'm bloody tired of reading we need to change this one or that one. This is the best team we have had in 30 years and they are the founding members of why.
We need to enjoy and embrace them. Yes they sometimes have off days but the stats don't lie and I wouldn't change them for anyone.
And I've a funny feeling Jurgen feels the same.

[Aldo1988]

I'm bloody tired of reading we need to change this one or that one. This is the best team we have had in 30 years and they are the founding members of why.
We need to enjoy and embrace them. Yes they sometimes have off days but the stats don't lie and I wouldn't change them for anyone.
And I've a funny feeling Jurgen feels the same.

This is a contender for Post of the Year already :) I'd go as far as to say the same for the rest of the squad, I really find it hard to fathom why people want to moan about our squad.

[skyebo]

This is a contender for Post of the Year already :) I'd go as far as to say the same for the rest of the squad, I really find it hard to fathom why people want to moan about our squad.

I'd love to have been around during Hodgson's time here if some are moaning now.

[Aldo1988]

I'd love to have been around during Hodgson's time here if some are moaning now.

If I remember correctly, everyone was on the same wavelength and justified to moan about his tenure! Lucas was getting the most flack out of all the players (even more than Konchesky IIRC)!

[Steveo]

I'd love to have been around during Hodgson's time here if some are moaning now.

Paul Konchesky though skye.... What a playaaaaar... I mean the guy had the lot. a shiny head, two legs AND he brought his own boots... :D

[Nineteenx]

I'm bloody tired of reading we need to change this one or that one. This is the best team we have had in 30 years and they are the founding members of why.
We need to enjoy and embrace them. Yes they sometimes have off days but the stats don't lie and I wouldn't change them for anyone.
And I've a funny feeling Jurgen feels the same.

People are only talking about using this summer to improve again and build for the long term future in the process, I don't see what's wrong with that at all

[ianlfc]

People are only talking about using this summer to improve again and build for the long term future in the process, I don't see what's wrong with that at all

I was talking about the moving on of any of the front 3.

[Nineteenx]

I was talking about the moving on of any of the front 3.

Oh, yeah, agreed, why the fuck would we think about doing that, we want to add a fourth top quality striker, not move on any of our incredible front 3

The point of this summer should be to add an extra top quality player of the right age in 2 or 3 positions and integrate them with the incredible players we already have so they can develop in the team and learn from them

[RedNoodle]

A number of media outlets are saying/asking if we should sell/swap one of our front three (namely Salah) for a player such as Mbappe. The current chief instigators of such talk/rumours seems to be ESPN and The Express.

[ianlfc]

Oh, yeah, agreed, why the fuck would we think about doing that, we want to add a fourth top quality striker, not move on any of our incredible front 3

The point of this summer should be to add an extra top quality player of the right age in 2 or 3 positions and integrate them with the incredible players we already have so they can develop in the team and learn from them

I've no problem with adding top quality players to the squad. Obviously Jurgen didn't think Fernandes was what he wanted as it he had we would've signed him as we have the money.
Injuries come to all clubs at some point and who knows maybe next season could be our turn. So we will need to add to the squad not take away from it. Especially as the Jurgen system is a running like a dream with the type of players he's in it.

[skyebo]

Paul Konchesky though skye.... What a playaaaaar... I mean the guy had the lot. a shiny head, two in the legs AND he brought his own boots... :D

He was in the sky sports studio last night, watching one of the Europa league games. I think it was Arsenal.

[skyebo]

If I remember correctly, everyone was on the same wavelength and justified to moan about his tenure! Lucas was getting the most flack out of all the players (even more than Konchesky IIRC)!

That was totally unfair, 5 managers thought he was good enough, they can't all be wrong.

[ianlfc]

That was totally unfair, 5 managers thought he was good enough, they can't all be wrong.

He was one of the reasons they were all sacked !!

[skyebo]

He was one of the reasons they were all sacked !!

Haha.

[RedNoodle]

He was in the sky sports studio last night, watching one of the Europa league games. I think it was Arsenal.

He was on TalkCrud a couple of hours ago.

[toneata]

He was in the sky sports studio last night, watching one of the Europa league games. I think it was Arsenal.

Did he bring his mum along for backup?

[skyebo]

Did he bring his mum along for backup?

Haha, she was covering the United game.

[Aldo1988]

He was one of the reasons they were all sacked !!

Haha, he was frustrating on occasions but not as bad as some made him out to be.

[CCTV]

Is there a dislike of Salah in some quarters? I know Carragher was saying Salah was under appreciated. I know his body language doesn't appear to be the best. but I think that's because hes quite reserved in how he is as a person. Doesn't mean he doesn't care.. I still remember when he won man of the match and he gave his man of the match gift to Milner for his 600th appearance.
Some fans may want him to show more emotion. But as long as hes doing his job that's fine.

2 things with Salah imo

1) Mane and Bobby are off the ball animals. Salahs really good off the ball too, but hes just in a front 3 with 2 monsters. Mane is currently the top animal.

2) hes under delivering imo on goals and assists. Scoring penalties is important but last year and this year Salah has 3 in both pl campaigns.
Mane has no penalties, takes less shots and matches Salah last year in the pl and missed more games this year.
Imo Mane for the last season and this one is our best and most clinical attacker.

Mane had to deal with this in 17/18. Suffering relative to Bobby's and Mo's performances then.

I think people get very and more defensive about Salah than the other 2 myself.
Imo Salah should lead our other 2 on goals and assists by a greater distance.