The Barca Rebuild.

[Insidious]

You're the Managing Director/Manager/Director of Football all rolled into one.

How do you go about fixing the mess and building for the future?

[Balinkay]

Like this, Sid:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yUE9pQ3zPk

[HLOGI]

Ad a start sell Messi. Would fetch a good some. But also seems to be the boss at the club. Doesn't do much in the big games anymore.

Sell Suarez. Let go of Busques, Lenglet, Sergi, Semeida. Sell De Jong he offers nothing.

Sign Van Dijk for 200 million. Sign Mbappe for 300 million. Bring back Coutinho. Bring back Thiago.

Sign young hungry players from trams like RB Leipzig, Atalanta etc.

[teesred]

I wonder what the little fella is thinking now. Hes too old to see a rebuild through surely?
They've paid the price for their arrogance, the transfers theyve splurged huge sums on by acting underhand and arrogant have almost all gone to shit. No resale value on any of them.
I've loved watching great side, nobody can deny how fantastic they were. Probably the best ever but it's well and truly over for them now.
I just hope bigtime Real go the same way as my despise for them is on another level to Barca.

[fiordearg]

I'd 8-2 be a Barcelona player or fan today

[CCTV]

A proper headache to sort that lot out.

They need a lot

[Balinkay]

Sell everyone over the age of 30 bar Messi.

Get Poch in and tell him that no matter what happens, he gets three years and all the money they can give him.

Ask Messi if he's ok with that. If not, sell him too.

[Insidious]

Arda Turan - €34 million
Andre Gomes - €37 million
Paco Alcacer - €30 million
Ousmane Dembele - €138 million
Paulinho - €40 million
Nelson Semedo - €36 million
Philippe Coutinho - €145 million
Malcom - €41 million
Clement Lenglet - €36 million
Arthur - €31 million
Antoine Griezmann - €120 million
Frenkie de Jong - €75 million
Miralem Pjanic - €60 million
Trincao - €31 million

That's only the transfers over €30 million since 2014 I think - shocking return.

I'd be selling Messi - nobody seems to be able to thrive in his shadow these days. At a push I would withdraw him into a deeper role with a the best DM they can buy beside him - a bit like the Alonso and Mascherano dynamic, just for his passing ability, but given his age and his (lack of) work-rate, plus the ego issues, I'd sell.

Messi out, surround a couple of the "prime" age players with youth, one or two experienced heads from elsewhere in, perhaps trust Coutinho a bit once the shadow of Messi went. They could do much worse than targeting Wijnaldum and Thiago Alcantara to totally rebuild that midfield and getting a solid centre-back in.

There is just SO much work to do!

[faridtoxteth]

All the talk about Wijnaldum and his contract. Has he been linked specifically with another club? Is he holding out for more money or does he want 'a new challenge'.?

[LEGS]

All the talk about Wijnaldum and his contract. Has he been linked specifically with another club? Is he holding out for more money or does he want 'a new challenge'.?

Last I saw contract talks had stalled.

In any case at 30 he is far too young to play for Barcelona 😂

[Insidious]

All the talk about Wijnaldum and his contract. Has he been linked specifically with another club? Is he holding out for more money or does he want 'a new challenge'.?

Most persistent "educated rumour" is that contract length is the issue - we want to offer 3 years, he wants 4 - apparently contract stuff for all players isn't being addressed immediately as the players get a break but it will be one to watch.

If he does decide he is leaving I hope he can give one Hell of a final year with us like Alonso did. I really, really like Wijnaldum and hope he stays but ultimately nobody is irreplaceable and I would trust Klopp more than anyone to find the solution.

[teesred]

Wow the money theyve wasted is unreal. Some real dung on that list of players.
Imagine if it was a big corporate company, they'd be fucked.

[reddownunder]

The managers keep on being undermined by the players led by Messi. I'd try to convince Xavi to come back to manage the team as he would have the players' immediate respect. Zidane has had a similar effect at Real.

If reports are to be believed then they appear to be skint which is no surprise given how many 100s of millions they've wasted in recent years.

In the current market they will find it difficult to receive any decent fees for the likes of Suarez, Rakitic, Coutinho, Dembele etc so there is no quick fix for them by bringing new players in.

[justme]

if they need a keeper, we have karuis for 50 million.

[Insidious]

In the current market they will find it difficult to receive any decent fees for the likes of Suarez, Rakitic, Coutinho, Dembele etc so there is no quick fix for them by bringing new players in.

Indeed.

One of their biggest issues is ego/Worldwide fan expectation at this point. They really need an environment whereby it is deemed acceptable by the fans that there might be 2-4 seasons of finishing 3rd/4th so they can fix their issues for the longer haul and challenge again. Some fanbases can handle that sort of thing and get behind the idea of a "project" better than others - Dortmund fans are a patient lot for example, whereas Barca now have that sense of entitlement you see with Real Madrid, City etc.

I'd aim to hang onto Dembele, and Coutinho and give some youth a chance - Messi, tough as the initial loss of the goals/assists would be one you want to shift - simply too much player power and he casts an enormous shadow over other players. Should still have enough for 3rd/4th for a couple of years whilst adjusting to life after Messi/Suarez/Rakitic/Vidal/Pique that you release over a few windows.

They're short on money, so getting the Monster wages off the books and hiring some better scouts/data analysts and trying to emulate what Dortmund do whilst maintaining the "Barca" style of play (added caveat of being less ridiculously dogmatic about having the ball at the back) is a viable option - a few talented youths coming in to supplement the couple of talented youngsters they have, who have a bit of help from Coutinho, Dembele (when not on the treatment table) Griezmann and Pjanic and they can do enough to nick 4th for a few seasons until they get a couple of years under the legs of the youth players and bring through another group of players.

[ianlfc]

Bloody hell, I've just read if Coutinho wins the champions league with Bayern, Barca have to pay us another £5 million !!
The gift that keeps on giving.

[Insidious]

Bloody hell, I've just read if Coutinho wins the champions league with Bayern, Barca have to pay us another £5 million !!
The gift that keeps on giving.

I would be surprised at that. I would imagine (small print) that Coutinho winning the Champion's League would have to be for Barca. It would be a pleasant surprise if we had thought of the possibility of them loaning him out to another club when it came to negotiations.

[miller0863]

Oh please let that be true. As for their rebuild quite honestly who gives a f**k.
Arrogant wankers can rot.

[LFC-DPG]

Oh please let that be true. As for their rebuild quite honestly who gives a f**k.
Arrogant wankers can rot.

+1

The first thing they should do is dump the likes of Messi and Pique.

[ianlfc]

+1

The first thing they should do is dump the likes of Messi and Pique.

They can dump Messi at Anfield if they like . We're on the look out for good squad players 😂😂

[Kev0909]

I think the game last night, yes bayern was better obviously but 8-2???

Something's going on behind the scenes, or some players are really not happy

You just have to think there's something going on.

I also found it very weird coutinho was allowed to play agsint them, a good way to rub it in..... couldn't of anything worse if i was a barca fan.

[ianlfc]

I think the game last night, yes bayern was better obviously but 8-2???

Something's going on behind the scenes, or some players are really not happy

You just have to think there's something going on.

I also found it very weird coutinho was allowed to play agsint them, a good way to rub it in..... couldn't of anything worse if i was a barca fan.

They were lucky it wasn't more, they shit the bed as we say.
As for something going on, the only thing going on is they have bought players who have been coached by poor managers.
It just goes to show how quickly you can fall from grace if you don't get te manager right.

[southernboy]

That’s the crazy thing.., the scoreline didn’t flatter Bayern one little bit

[teesred]

They were lucky it wasn't more, they shit the bed as we say.
As for something going on, the only thing going on is they have bought players who have been coached by poor managers.
It just goes to show how quickly you can fall from grace if you don't get te manager right.

It serves them right. Theyve acted the shithouse far too many times and its bitten them, their transfer business has been a disaster . I just hope Real go to shit even more than Barca. Atleast Barca in their pomp were simply unreal and gave the Mancs a right royal spanking in 2 finals. For that we have to give them some grace.

[dicko1969]

You're the Managing Director/Manager/Director of Football all rolled into one.

How do you go about fixing the mess and building for the future?

There are 5 or 6 at 32 or 33you

Messi Suarex Pique Bousquets Rakitic Alaba.

Barça cannot just buy top players on the cheap like they did with Fabregas Suarez Henry.

No generation coming through. Xavi Iniesta come along once every 20 years.

And messi one in 50 years.

The team is built around Messi but he can longer do all on his own.

33yo it is a difficult period and delicate one.

Even their purchases have been a flop. Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann that's £350m on 3 players ... wow !!

There is still 2 years of Messi. But for the incoming manager this a going to be problematic until Messi moves on and others take on responsibility.

[dicko1969]

I think the game last night, yes bayern was better obviously but 8-2???

Something's going on behind the scenes, or some players are really not happy

You just have to think there's something going on.

I also found it very weird coutinho was allowed to play agsint them, a good way to rub it in..... couldn't of anything worse if i was a barca fan.

They should change the rule in the EPL and allow loan players to play v parent club.

Ridiculous rule.

[dicko1969]

Indeed.

One of their biggest issues is ego/Worldwide fan expectation at this point. They really need an environment whereby it is deemed acceptable by the fans that there might be 2-4 seasons of finishing 3rd/4th so they can fix their issues for the longer haul and challenge again. Some fanbases can handle that sort of thing and get behind the idea of a "project" better than others - Dortmund fans are a patient lot for example, whereas Barca now have that sense of entitlement you see with Real Madrid, City etc.

I'd aim to hang onto Dembele, and Coutinho and give some youth a chance - Messi, tough as the initial loss of the goals/assists would be one you want to shift - simply too much player power and he casts an enormous shadow over other players. Should still have enough for 3rd/4th for a couple of years whilst adjusting to life after Messi/Suarez/Rakitic/Vidal/Pique that you release over a few windows.

They're short on money, so getting the Monster wages off the books and hiring some better scouts/data analysts and trying to emulate what Dortmund do whilst maintaining the "Barca" style of play (added caveat of being less ridiculously dogmatic about having the ball at the back) is a viable option - a few talented youths coming in to supplement the couple of talented youngsters they have, who have a bit of help from Coutinho, Dembele (when not on the treatment table) Griezmann and Pjanic and they can do enough to nick 4th for a few seasons until they get a couple of years under the legs of the youth players and bring through another group of players.

Yes Sid

Pretty much sums it up

They need to go a few steps back for 1 or 2 seasons like you said.

They can easily challenge in the league because it is only a 2 team league .

Need to drop the 32yos and plan for the next 4 years.

They need 8 or 9 players to come through.

What's great is Real Barca Arsenal Spurs Chelsea are all after the same type of players.

Man City will buy another 4 full backs and 2 centre backs.

PSG need a CB . Thiago Silva 35yo.
But can easily afford players like chopp- moting in the french league.

ManU need a few defenders and maybe goalkeeper and the squad depth isnt great.

Liverpool are on year 3 of a 4 to 5 year cycle.

It is very disappointing not to be in Portugal. I think we really should/could have won it. A.Madrid flunked it.

[teesred]

There are 5 or 6 at 32 or 33you

Messi Suarex Pique Bousquets Rakitic Alaba.

Barça cannot just buy top players on the cheap like they did with Fabregas Suarez Henry.

No generation coming through. Xavi Iniesta come along once every 20 years.

And messi one in 50 years.

The team is built around Messi but he can longer do all on his own.

33yo it is a difficult period and delicate one.

Even their purchases have been a flop. Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann that's £350m on 3 players ... wow !!

There is still 2 years of Messi. But for the incoming manager this a going to be problematic until Messi moves on and others take on responsibility.

Real and Barcas success in recent years has been built around 2 of the greatest ever players. Both clubs have literally been carried by them and the says they were dreading are right here right now. The days when they cant rely on either to bail them out all the time.
Both clubs are fucked for some time as a major force and it couldn't have happened to a better pair of shithouse clubs. Especially Real. They wont compete with the premier league in Europe for years now. Long may it continue.

[Insidious]

Speaking of Real Madrid, they have to give Odegaard a chance sooner or later - he is 21 now and they have a few players who are getting on a touch.

[teesred]

Speaking of Real Madrid, they have to give Odegaard a chance sooner or later - he is 21 now and they have a few players who are getting on a touch.

I read yesterday hes going to be played more and Isco and Modric could be moved on. They certainly ain't spending big anytime soon. Shithouse club, I despise them as much as the Mancs.

[Kev0909]

Barca do have some decent kids to keep a look out for

Jorge Cuenca promising CB
Ludovit Reis (Midfielder who wants to play for us apparently)
Ansu Fati 17 years old, and already looking incredible, could be the next hazard or better.
Moriba 16 years olde, CM that's looking very good apparently.

There's a couple of CB's too, but nothing that special will come from them I don't think so no point listing some more.

Looking into it's very hard to get a chance for young guys for Barca.... the old guard holds em back, hence the situation they're in.

I think Fati could become world class, and i love the name!

[redebreck]

I read yesterday hes going to be played more and Isco and Modric could be moved on. They certainly ain't spending big anytime soon. Shithouse club, I despise them as much as the Mancs.

Wouldn't mind Isco coming here, under 30 and a decent player.
Problem is, would he get a game with us?

[dicko1969]

Real and Barcas success in recent years has been built around 2 of the greatest ever players. Both clubs have literally been carried by them and the says they were dreading are right here right now. The days when they cant rely on either to bail them out all the time.
Both clubs are fucked for some time as a major force and it couldn't have happened to a better pair of shithouse clubs. Especially Real. They wont compete with the premier league in Europe for years now. Long may it continue.

Hazard looked nothing like the player at Chelsea.

Real reminds of the 2008 period when we stuffed them 4-0. Ageing team with no spark or fight.

Barcelona; I cant remember a slow non exciting Barça for years.
Rivaldo years
Ronaldinho years
Messi years

Maybe the mid 90s ?

[CCTV]

Real look to have a better selection of players for the next few season imo Dicko.

Courtois mendy varane miltao carvahal at least a back 5, some decent options further up the pitch and Zidane at the least seems to be a manager of note.

Not sure its enough to entice Mbappe though. Could easily see him being a lfc or no-one at this point.

[faridtoxteth]

It's Koeman.
Think that is a bit of a stopgap. Maybe a bit underwhelming. they obviously didn't see how he was at everton.

[scientificred]

It's Koeman.
Think that is a bit of a stopgap. Maybe a bit underwhelming. they obviously didn't see how he was at everton.
I think he could be very good.
As I have posted elsewhere, I think OLG could come good with the Mancs.
For those who want to see their demise then the best thing that could happen is his sacking and replacement by another high profile manager who spunks loads of money on another rebuild.
LVG was getting there and whilst never rejoicing in a sacking was not unhappy that he was.
Both Koeman and OLG are very knowledgeable footballers - the latter still cutting his teeth at senior level management and the former whilst having served a lengthy apprenticeship in management deserves better in my opinion.
You cannot polish a turd.

[redebreck]

Olg?

[scientificred]

Olg?

OLG should be OGS.
Thankyou Redebreck!

[Insidious]

It's Koeman.
Think that is a bit of a stopgap. Maybe a bit underwhelming. they obviously didn't see how he was at everton.

I am guessing a 1-year deal or 2-year deal?

Hard to imagine anything longer being given, with the likelihood of a new President in the near-future. Wouldn't want to be paying off the remainder of a big contract.

[reddownunder]

Hazard looked nothing like the player at Chelsea.

Real reminds of the 2008 period when we stuffed them 4-0. Ageing team with no spark or fight.

Barcelona; I cant remember a slow non exciting Barça for years.
Rivaldo years
Ronaldinho years
Messi years

Maybe the mid 90s ?

They had Ronaldo tearing up the league for the one season before Rivaldo. Stoichkov was there for the first half of the 90s so there is a real chance that they could soon have a team with no world class players in it for the first time in 30+ years

[teesred]

Figo was still there in 99 too.
I went to the nou camp in 02 for a game and the team had Mendieta,Saviola and Riquelme in it. Great players but they just didnt do much as a team. They were big under achievers around that time.

[Insidious]

Stoichkov was an incredible player. In terms of individual "stars" I still look back at the '94 World Cup as being one of the best / most diverse in that regard for individual talents.

[reddownunder]

Stoichkov was an incredible player. In terms of individual "stars" I still look back at the '94 World Cup as being one of the best / most diverse in that regard for individual talents.

That was the first world cup I watched when I was 9 years old. There were some cracking games. The 3-2 Romania over Argentina, Brazil 3-2 over Netherlands and Bulgaria turning the match on its head with a come from behind win over Germany stick out in my mind.

The likes of Stoichkov, Baggio, Romario, Hagi, and Maradona made it a joy to watch.

[Balinkay]

Incidentally the '94 WC is a prime example of people getting extremely sentimental about an event that took place before their birth for some of my compatriots and me. :D

[ianlfc]

Incidentally the '94 WC is a prime example of people getting extremely sentimental about an event that took place before their birth for some of my compatriots and me. :D

England fans would never do that !!

[Joetan991]

I don't want to see the rebuilding job done there.

How many of our players went there cheaply just because they wanted to play for them.

[teesred]

In relation to the Gini link with Barca, isnt there a clause that was inserted after the Coutinho deal? That they pay a premium for any of our players?

[Balinkay]

In relation to the Gini link with Barca, isnt there a clause that was inserted after the Coutinho deal? That they pay a premium for any of our players?

I think that runs / ran out this year.

Iirc it was a 100m Euro premium until the end of 2020's summer.

[dicko1969]

Figo was still there in 99 too.
I went to the nou camp in 02 for a game and the team had Mendieta,Saviola and Riquelme in it. Great players but they just didnt do much as a team. They were big under achievers around that time.

I've seen Etoo Zlatan Messi Iniesta Xavi David Villa , Dani Alves, Suarez, Pedro, Bojan, Henry... really lucky . Saw the el classico wow !

[ianlfc]

Apparently Messi is looking out . I'd say Italy rather than England but no doubt City will try everything to get him

[Balinkay]

If he's got balls, he'll come to us.

[ianlfc]

If he's got balls, he'll come to us.

Mbappe and Messi on the bench. Now that would be interesting.

[Kev0909]

let him come to the prem, I think we'll beat any team with him in, due to our work-rate.... whoever messi goes to, well yeahh they'll have to make up his lack of work-rate

More of a luxury player now, I wouldn't have him over any of our front 3, not as good as he use to be, ronaldo i'd take still! :excitement::excitement:

[Insidious]

Apparently Messi is looking out . I'd say Italy rather than England but no doubt City will try everything to get him

This would never happen, but in terms of "footballing experiments" and putting a side closer to "where they belong" it would be a lot of fun to see him at AC Milan.

As it is, you'd think PSG and City are the most likely destinations.

Which will say a lot about him, really.

[miller0863]

PSG must be favourites. Think he’d see the Prem as too much like hard work.

[3underpar]

How Inter could afford his wages I don’t know but Serie A makes the most sense for him now. He will get roughed up much more in the PL.

[Kev0909]

Anyone else think ronaldo has aged much better?

I'd say he's the better play now and not even that close.

[Balinkay]

Anyone else think ronaldo has aged much better?

I'd say he's the better play now and not even that close.

No. Messi's as good today as I've ever seen him, if a bit lazier.

[LFC vs PFC]

Apparently he's not motivated by money.

I don't think we'd go in for him, but I'd be excited to see him play in behind Plymouth's front 2 next season.

[LEGS]

Lets be right he is still top class but just not as good as he was.

He still scored nearly 40 goals last season I want him nowhere near City being honest.

He may not even leave yet as its all politics at Barcelona.

Ronaldo is still a quality player too both have looked after themselves incredibly well.

[justincredible]

No. Messi's as good today as I've ever seen him, if a bit lazier.

The lazier part Bali, is probably due to career management, ie prolonging it..

[ianlfc]

The lazier part Bali, is probably due to career management, ie prolonging it..

Amazing that arguably the best player ever is the only player allowed to walk on a pitch.
Sometimes he doesn't move he just stands there !!

[justincredible]

Amazing that arguably the best player ever is the only player allowed to walk on a pitch.
Sometimes he doesn't move he just stands there !!

I don't think he owes Barcelona much at this stage Ian.
He has probably stagnated there alright though.
A new challenge would be the right move for him I think we can all agree...

[Kev0909]

Amazing that arguably the best player ever is the only player allowed to walk on a pitch.
Sometimes he doesn't move he just stands there !!

And surely if he was STILL that good Barca would of done better?

Spain is a very attacking focused league, I would like to see how he'd do against VVD,,,

You can't really get away with walking in EPL just look at ozil he was meant to be a top class player, not on messis level no but still

[Balinkay]

Lets be right he is still top class but just not as good as he was.

He still scored nearly 40 goals last season I want him nowhere near City being honest.

He may not even leave yet as its all politics at Barcelona.

Ronaldo is still a quality player too both have looked after themselves incredibly well.

Didn't he just break the assist record in La Liga? That's not a player in decline.

[Balinkay]

And surely if he was STILL that good Barca would of done better?

Spain is a very attacking focused league, I would like to see how he'd do against VVD,,,

You can't really get away with walking in EPL just look at ozil he was meant to be a top class player, not on messis level no but still

Yeah, but if Gerrard was that good he'd have won more with us. I don't think that argument works.

[Kev0909]

Yeah, but if Gerrard was that good he'd have won more with us. I don't think that argument works.

Well pretty sure messi has won a lot more than gerrard no?

he's part of the problem at Barca in his current situation, to much player power & doesn't work hard enough for the team and in a aging team they can't carry the lack of work rate.

Would be better than Ozil ofc, but same issue.

[Balinkay]

Seriously, guys, take a chill pill. This isn't a top player you're talking about.

This is one of the best ever. In history you could count the number of players with his consistency and longevity on one hand. We're basically talking a God amonst mortals. Think Maradona, but less fond of the white stuff. Think Pele, but.... more Argentinian.

He'd make a mockery of the PL defences if he were to come. This isn't some sulky prima donna like Özi. We're talking one of the finest athletes in any sport in the last century.

[stevie harkness]

I thought we were talking about Messi

[Balinkay]

Well pretty sure messi has won a lot more than gerrard no?

he's part of the problem at Barca in his current situation, to much player power & doesn't work hard enough for the team and in a aging team they can't carry the lack of work rate.

Would be better than Ozil ofc, but same issue.

You do realise he's scored 10% of all Barca goals ever at their stadium (or something obscene like that, I'm not sure if that was the exact stat), right? Take him out of the team and they're back to a second rate European power they've always been with the likes of Benfica and Inter.

He still scores a large plurality of their goals - he's just too good for what's around him at present.

I do see your point that he's defensively completely and utterly useless though. But for 40 goals and 30 assists a year, can you honestly complain?

Edit: The Gerrard comment was meant to illustrate that no matter how great you are, you can't win trophies on your own.

[teesred]

Seriously, guys, take a chill pill. This isn't a top player you're talking about.

This is one of the best ever. In history you could count the number of players with his consistency and longevity on one hand. We're basically talking a God amonst mortals. Think Maradona, but less fond of the white stuff. Think Pele, but.... more Argentinian.

He'd make a mockery of the PL defences if he were to come. This isn't some sulky prima donna like Özi. We're talking one of the finest athletes in any sport in the last century.

Absolutely. I love all the "hes not actually that good" and "hes past it anyway" type of talk that's been flying around the last few weeks.
Hes in a elite group of players where it's a very sparse club. Literally among 4 or 5 who are head and shoulders above anyone else and theres no argument about it.

[Steveo]

Not in Maradona’s class Bali. It really isn’t even close but he is one of the all time greats. No doubt.. just sad he had Ronaldo at or close to the same level.

Diego high on Coke and in a shite Argentina and bog ordinary Napoli could do things Messi simply never has or will.

[Kev0909]

He's 33, I wouldn't want us Liverpool to go near him not that we would

financial ruin, whoever does go for him making a big gamble, with near 1m a week wages and everything else on top of that, which is just crazy, not to mention he's picking up more injuries and he's not naturally as gifted fitness wise as ronaldo, and i can see him decline more and more very soon anyway.

I don't think it'll be easy for him in the current climate, but a couple of clubs can afford him I guess who can pour money into it.

[Steveo]

Absolutely. I love all the "hes not actually that good" and "hes past it anyway" type of talk that's been flying around the last few weeks.
Hes in a elite group of players where it's a very sparse club. Literally among 4 or 5 who are head and shoulders above anyone else and theres no argument about it.

Agreed.. He is comfortably the best in the world still - so anyone who isn’t worried about him at City is a fruitcake.. But we do have a few on here.. :D

[Balinkay]

With all due respect Steveo, mate, bollocks to that. Maradona was undoubtedly a bigger personality, a better leader and far more charismatic than Messi. But as a footballer? Not having that.

But the myth that he won the WC in a shite Argentina in '86 is just that - a myth. Besides, he didn't win it on his own, did he? Didn't even score in the final... And remind me, how many European cups has he got?

With a ball at his feet, I'm not sure you could make an argument he had anything Messi doesn't.


I tried to have a reasoned debate about this topic once but none of you old farts had any interest in the format I was proposing, so I left it.

[Steveo]

Bali seriously son -
you just don’t know what you are talking about.

I seriously doubt you can be much of a player if you cannot see the overwhelming difference. Comparing a guy who was playing all his career in the best club side ever seen. Continually falling flat the moment he steps out of that security blanket. The tackle from behind outlawed cameras showing ever angle and over and over again.

Seriously - Messi would never in a million years win Sccudetto twice with a Napoli - no chance no how. He could never win a World Cup single handedly and almost win another.

Accounting is one thing - football is another entirely

[Balinkay]

He's 33, I wouldn't want us Liverpool to go near him not that we would

financial ruin, whoever does go for him making a big gamble, with near 1m a week wages and everything else on top of that, which is just crazy, not to mention he's picking up more injuries and he's not naturally as gifted fitness wise as ronaldo, and i can see him decline more and more very soon anyway.

I don't think it'll be easy for him in the current climate, but a couple of clubs can afford him I guess who can pour money into it.

The money will be a huge issue, yes. I wouldn't want us to touch him with a fifty foot stick, unless we're absolutely sure it's financially viable. And I mean in case a meteorite strikes.

[Balinkay]

Bali seriously son you don’t know what you are talking about

Like I said - I tried to talk to you about this, gramps, but you didn't like the way I wanted to have the conversation so we left it. No hard feelings, it happens.

I realise we tend to be more fond of things we saw when we were young and we see them through rose tinted glasses - that's ok, happens to the best of us.

[Balinkay]

And I'm not arguing that Messi's better btw. Just that IF one of them is obviously superior, it's Leo. Again, not that I think he actually is.

[Kev0909]

Let's see if he actually moves, would be kinda good to see him in the prem but probably would go to a less workman/physical league

[Steveo]

Gramps... Not that old surely ..?

But I am 47 and I bet I could run rings around you on a football pitch Bali - Think of what Diego did to Bulgaria... Oops - sore point

Once again your stance on Diego reveals what you don’t know.

:D

[Kev0909]

I predict he'll go PSG for a easy ride, but they'll still fail to win the champions league 100%

All good having flashy players but you need more than that.

[Balinkay]

Gramps... Not that old surely ..?

But I am 47 and I bet I could run rings around you on a football pitch Bali - Think of what Diego did to Bulgaria... Oops - sore point

:D

For whom exactly? Since in '94 it went our lads' way iirc. :D

I'd take you up on the footie offer - matter of fact, I was planning to make a trip to the isles (though the greener one) before the COVID crisis. :(

[miller0863]

I never subscribe to the “show us your medals” mantra to rate how good a player is.
Look at Gerrard for instance, his talent warrants him winning at least 2 World Cups, 3 Champions Leagues and 3 or 4 Premier Leagues. Was he any lesser player because he didn’t ?
I think not.

Maradona is the first player on my all time best 11 team sheet every time.

[Steveo]

For whom exactly? Since in '94 it went our lads' way iirc. :D

I'd take you up on the footie offer - matter of fact, I was planning to make a trip to the isles (though the greener one) before the COVID crisis. :(

In 94 Diego was called out of retirement silly boy. He was a total wreck and what happened to Argentina? Yes the same as with Messi..

Bring it on - when this pandemic is over - I guess the longer it takes the more it favours you

[Balinkay]

In 94 Diego was called out of retirement silly boy. He was a total wreck and what happened to Argentina? Yes the same as with Messi..

Was he a total wreck? The official story is that he was a well oiled machine... in fact too well oiled with some illegal stuff.

[Steveo]

Was he a total wreck? The official story is that he was a well oiled machine... in fact too well oiled with some illegal stuff.

He was taking injections just to walk mate. A near cripple. Did you ever see what happened to him - First Spain and then repeatedly in Italy.

Bali he was crippled because there was ONLY one way to stop him.

Messi’s career would have been over by the time he was 25 with such treatment. That is part of why so many rare Diego the greatest. No other player ( except maybe Pele ) was targeted so ruthlessly and without any protection.

[Balinkay]

Btw, how did Napoli do in the '88 and '90 CLs?

[Balinkay]

He was taking injections just to walk mate. A near cripple. Did you ever see what happened to him - First Spain and then repeatedly in Italy.

Bali he was crippled because there was ONLY one way to stop him.

Yeah... and that way was cocaine. :D

[Balinkay]

Look, as I've said - I'm sure it was a lot of fun watching him when you were growing up. He's a super enigmatic and almost romantic figure in this sport of ours. And I'm genuinely sorry I never got to see him play.

But boldly proclaiming he deserves a higher spot in the pantheon than Pele or Messi is a tad absurd, as I'm sure the man himself would say.

[Balinkay]

Let's leave this scuffle - there's nothing to be gained from talking about this any further and I might get worked up and say something stupid again. If you want to have a structured and reasoned debate, we can try it out some time if I'm feeling bored. :)

On the main point we agree - it'd be a disaster if he went to City.

[Steveo]

Yeah... and that way was cocaine. :D
Oh he was a coke head yes after the Camorra - not easy to turn them down Bali...and you can trust me on that - Capish...? - What you think that helped his game? Lol

He was near crippled - just so much better than anyone else on the planet that he could change many many games even when carrying an average team.

One day maybe in 20 years maybe less - one day you will see

[Balinkay]

I never subscribe to the “show us your medals” mantra to rate how good a player is.
Look at Gerrard for instance, his talent warrants him winning at least 2 World Cups, 3 Champions Leagues and 3 or 4 Premier Leagues. Was he any lesser player because he didn’t ?
I think not.

Maradona is the first player on my all time best 11 team sheet every time.

He should probably make it into everyone's to be fair. But so should Messi.

[Balinkay]

Oh he was a coke head yes after the Camorra - not easy to turn them down Bali...and you can trust me on that - Capish...? - What you think that helped his game? Lol

He was near crippled - just so much better than anyone else on the planet that he could change many many games even when carrying an average team.

No denying he's one of the greats. If the roles were reversed and someone were saying "but if he'd come to us in the 80s he'd have been found out" I'd be the first one defending Don Diego.


One day maybe in 20 years maybe less - one day you will see

And perhaps you'll realise you're a bit blinded by the mystique surrounding the little mage and by memories of your youth.

[Kev0909]

Let's leave this scuffle - there's nothing to be gained from talking about this any further and I might get worked up and say something stupid again. If you want to have a structured and reasoned debate, we can try it out some time if I'm feeling bored. :)

On the main point we agree - it'd be a disaster if he went to City.

nah it wouldn't it would be great, great fun.

he won't dare to come EPL

don't worry he'd show you how shit he'd be

Apparently suarez could be off too, maybe they could sign him also?

[Steveo]

No denying he's one of the greats. If the roles were reversed and someone were saying "but if he'd come to us in the 80s he'd have been found out" I'd be the first one defending them.



And perhaps you'll realise you're a bit blinded by the mystique surrounding the little mage and by memories of your youth.

I am not at all - I have witnessed Messi over his career at an age where I am best places to judge both. I watched Diego dude and IF he was up for it and the ref did his job - your Barca with Messi got beat by Napoli with Diego.

That simple - just on another level. Simple plain ability. Messi will be the first to admit he isn’t close to Diego. Because he knows it

[Steveo]

Seen here destroying Hungary... But look at the assaults he receives - and look at the lack of punishment.


https://youtu.be/3ltmxp_Jz9M

[Balinkay]

It's almost as if it was 30 years ago and football was... *gasp* DIFFERENT! :D

Tough pitch, less lenient refs... different offside rules, less professional players overall, tactically inept defenders - yeah, plenty of things were different alright.


What do you mean "my" Barca? And are you seriously suggesting that Napoli side that won two titles was better than treble winners and four time CL winners Barca? Six trophies in one year or something insane like that Barca?

I mean I quite dislike the club so I take any chance to bash them... but seriously? I mean I have no idea tbf - I wasn't there, but really? Seems highly unlikely.

[Steveo]

Please... Bali - use your eye as well as your brain.. :D


https://youtu.be/WCbUiiJoQYw

[Kev0909]

At least Diego turned up for his country

[Balinkay]

At least Diego turned up for his country

...when he wasn't banned...

[Balinkay]

@Steveo

What is your point with these videos? To demonstrate that footie was more brutal? I'm sure it was even more brutal in the 60s - therefore Garrincha > Diego. And even worse in the 30s. Sindelar > Diego.

[Steveo]

...when he wasn't banned...

What was it - just the 1 goal win by West Germany away from 2 successive World Cups...?

And crippled by Italy in the process. Come on

[Balinkay]

And when in 20 years some crazy kid does what Messi's done I'll be the bitter old man and I'll explain how "back in my day" football was a contact sport. :D

[miller0863]

The 30’s ?? Defenders and holding midfielders were allowed weapons in the 30’s ffs

[Balinkay]

What was it - just the 1 goal win by West Germany he was away from 2 World Cups...?

And crippled by Italy in the process. Come on

What was it - Higuain not missing a one-v-one you and I would have scored and Messi has as many WCs as Diego?

[Steveo]

And when in 20 years some crazy kid does what Messi's done I'll be the bitter old man and I'll explain how "back in my day" football was a contact sport. :D

What’s that - play EXCLUSIVELY for the best club side ever assembled - a side that was the best already BEFORE he entered...? That team Rikjaard built was epic. You put Ronaldo in front of Xavi and Iniesta mate and I believe Messi is in big trouble.

Messi has been a phenomenon. No argument but there are some levels he hasnt reached. Might still but doubt it

[Steveo]

The 30’s ?? Defenders and holding midfielders were allowed weapons in the 30’s ffs

And Spats

[Kev0909]

What was it - Higuain not missing a one-v-one you and I would have scored and Messi has as many WCs as Diego?

Maradona carried them to a world cup

Messi hasn't scored a knockout goal in 4 world cups..

Even the fans get pissed off with him

In fact messi seems very mardy guy club/country from what we've heard in the past.

Not like the argies havn't had a ton of attacking talent around him either.

[Insidious]

And when in 20 years some crazy kid does what Messi's done I'll be the bitter old man and I'll explain how "back in my day" football was a contact sport. :D

On a tangent - it's going to be funny when, in 20 years time, Messi detractors point at 2005-2010 and say "he just looks good because defenders weren't good yet" :D

[miller0863]

Hahahaha yeah now that would certainly have added a certain comedic twist..

[Balinkay]

What’s that - play EXCLUSIVELY for the best club side ever assembled - a side that was the best already BEFORE he entered...? That team Rikjaard built was epic. You put Ronaldo in front of Xavi and Iniesta mate and I believe Messi is in big trouble.

Messi has been a phenomenon. No argument but there are some levels he hasnt reached. Might still but doubt it

And you put Messi with Pasarella and Burruchaga and Maradona's in big trouble. What's your point?

[Balinkay]

Like I said - you don't want to have a reasoned discussion. You want to look teary eyed at videos of your past hero. Go ahead. I wouldn't want to take away any of that enjoyment from you even if could.

Enjoy your videos and have a good night mate. I have work in the morning. Fun as ever to take a trip down someone else's memory lane. I am extremely envious that you got to see him live... I really am.

[Balinkay]

On a tangent - it's going to be funny when, in 20 years time, Messi detractors point at 2005-2010 and say "he just looks good because defenders weren't good yet" :D

And in comparison to defenders in 20 years they probably won't have been. The game changes - some people are ahead of their time. The aforementioned Sindelar being one of them. The two Argentines, you could argue, were too.

[Kev0909]

Like I said - you don't want to have a reasoned discussion. You want to look teary eyed at videos of your past hero. Go ahead. I wouldn't want to take away any of that enjoyment from you even if could.

Like you are with messi? just because he's around when growing up unlike Diego?

any Argentines around?? they'll tell you.

P.S ronaldo better lolz

[Balinkay]

Like you are with messi? just because he's around when growing up unlike Diego?

any Argentines around?? they'll tell you.

What? I've stated this many times - I can't really make my mind up who's better and why. I take umbrage at the ease with which Steveo dismisses Messi in comparison to Don Diego, not his opinion that he is inferior. I might well share that, not sure really! :D

Also why would their nationality matter?

And finally - yes, you could make a case for Ronaldo. A damn good one at that. Which is an entirely different and very cool potential debate.

[LEGS]

It's almost as if it was 30 years ago and football was... *gasp* DIFFERENT! :D

Tough pitch, less lenient refs... different offside rules, less professional players overall, tactically inept defenders - yeah, plenty of things were different alright.


What do you mean "my" Barca? And are you seriously suggesting that Napoli side that won two titles was better than treble winners and four time CL winners Barca? Six trophies in one year or something insane like that Barca?

I mean I quite dislike the club so I take any chance to bash them... but seriously? I mean I have no idea tbf - I wasn't there, but really? Seems highly unlikely.

Defenders in Serie A back then were most definitely not inept it was the best league in the world back then.

Messi is more likeable than Diego for sure and I was always in the camp of Messi was better but when I think about it and watched the Diego documentary the bloke was a genius he’d destroy teams today in this no contact era.

It is two different eras so it is always hard to compare and I’m not old enough to have seen Pele so cant comment on him.

Most overrated player ever is Gazza he was good but he wasn’t as good as people say.

[Balinkay]

Yeah that's fair enough LEGS. He probably would - him dribbling in those laughably short shorts would be a sight to behold (he'd insist on them if he had any sense :D).

[Insidious]

And in comparison to defenders in 20 years they probably won't have been. The game changes - some people are ahead of their time. The aforementioned Sindelar being one of them. The two Argentines, you could argue, were too.

Yeah it will be interesting comparing a Cannavaro to a Van Dijk to a whoever.

[Kev0909]

What's the chances of barca coming for salah or mane then, if they have this clearout???

Maybe next season?

[miller0863]

Don’t think they’ve got the money Kev.

[Balinkay]

Don’t think they’ve got the money Kev.

But if they sell Messi? That'll free up a lot of wages and generate a fee.

[Steveo]

And you put Messi with Pasarella and Burruchaga and Maradona's in big trouble. What's your point?


Messi has played consistently in stronger Argentina sides than Diego ever did. That isn’t much of a debate unless we are talking to a Messi hero worshipper..?

Messi has consistently been outperformed on the international stage - not just by Zlatan or Ronaldo but by Luka Modric FFS. He has repeatedly looked bloody ordinary when he isn’t playing for Barca.

First comment in the video is for you... :D



https://youtu.be/v0nZ-9c1a70

If you have played the game at a reasonable level - you know..

[miller0863]

Think Messi is trying to get out on a free due to a clause in his contract.
I suppose though if they sold Phil and got Messi and Suárez off the wage bill they could afford it.

[Kev0909]

Don’t think they’ve got the money Kev.

Well if they get rid of suarez too, depends what they do, probably will have enough money next season.

They'll get the money somewhere.

[Steveo]

Like I said - you don't want to have a reasoned discussion. You want to look teary eyed at videos of your past hero. Go ahead. I wouldn't want to take away any of that enjoyment from you even if could.

Enjoy your videos and have a good night mate. I have work in the morning. Fun as ever to take a trip down someone else's memory lane. I am extremely envious that you got to see him live... I really am.

A reasoned discussion about what..? Your world view that trophies won and goals scored is the only marker.? For you to actually have that debate you need to SEE.. Counting won’t help you here.

Seems you want to belittle my view and pass me off as some old romantic... Well I feel a little sorry for you - I try to be nice but there is a little nasty streak in you. Perhaps the Strain of that Balkan blood striving its very best to conform to the lousy beat of the Teutonic drum?

Anyways - There are many reasons why you cannot really compare these players...different era’s, different characters and very different refereeing and circumstances.

But here is an attempt.

If anyone believes that any player is going to have stats like Messi or Ronaldo before the tackle from behind was outlawed and benefit of doubt switched from defenders to attackers introduced - they are wildly wrong. Then let’s also look at the teams Diego played for versus Messi’s Barca..

On the different characters...Messi wants to be at the best team ( and largely has been ) take all the chances and rack up all the goals. Diego was never like that. He relished the almost impossible challenge. Often more concerned with showmanship than actually scoring - as happy to beat 4 men and assist as bury a shot in the net. He would fight as hard to win the ball back as any Mascherano and was better at it too..! A born entertainer. He wanted to win as much as anyone and in the big games - the really big ones in Serie A and at the World Cup he almost always delivered. Remember - A 1 nil WC final defeat to West Germany away from 2 consecutive World Cups..! He drove sides that had simply no right to win to do just that. To win Serie A twice in the toughest league on the planet at that time - with Napoli.. It is off the charts nuts.

IMO and that of many others...and not all old Grandads - Messi has to prove himself outside of the setup that he has always been cosseted by. And to date - at that - he has failed. So despite his amazing numbers - and they are quite stupendous AND his utter brilliance - and he is utterly brilliant make no mistake ( best we have still ) - he has a good way to go before he can be put in Maradona’s bracket as a player.

[scientificred]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
For what it's worth I thought Suarez in his last season for us was the best footballer I had ever seen. Before that, and in order: Cantona, Maradonna, Cruyff, Greaves.

[Balinkay]

I love how you say I have nasty streak, yet bring up my grasp of the English language and / or nationality every time we have a relatively fundamental disagreement. Every single time. Quite a bit of anti-Balkan sentiment. I'm surprised you weren't more of a stauch Brexiteer. Would have thought such views align you pretty well with the likes of Farage... And you say I'm the one with the nasty streak. On this topic, every single time, you've been as confrontational and snide as they come. I just try to answer in kind.

We've also talked about stats many times as well - when numbers speak, even the Gods listen. However, goals scored and trophies won are not the only numbers that matter though - something people like you, who for some reason dislike stats, fail to get through their skulls. Those two numbers matter. A lot. But they are not the only ones that do. I would't know where to get more comprehensive stats on Maradona, but any self-respecting statistical model would let Maradona shine as bright as he deserves with the right stats. The whole "SEE" thing is just a heuristic for a proper analysis.

I agree it's extremely difficult to compare them, which is why I once tried to have a structured argument about the topic, alas noone was interested. Or at least not in the format I proposed.


As for the bit about noone matching their numbers with the old laws - I think you'll find a certain three time WC winning Brazillian got pretty close for a comparable amount of time.

In any case - I consider the issue closed. You tug one off to the Fat Junkie, I'll do the same to the Tiny Tax Evader. :)

[Balinkay]

I'm sorry Steveo - I'm not being just here - I'll leave the previous post, it would feel wrong removing it, once I've put it out there.

You get emotional about Maradona (my dad, who's a bit older than you loves him nearly as much, and he's the same way with Cruyff) and I get unreasonably irritated when someone brings up my age or heritage, as both are a bit of a touchy subject.

Let's leave this. :)

[ianlfc]

Maradona would throw one hell of a party after the game !!
That has to make him the better player 😃😃
Both players are/were brilliant but in different eras. No point arguing about it.

[Steveo]

@Ian...
Yes on the party and agree with both you and Bali on the comparison aspect... It is pointless.

@Bali...
For the record I am as far removed from being anti Balkan as it is possible to be. One of my absolute favourite parts of the world. The comment I made was the reverse of how you took it. The point being - IMO Balkan blood is usually more talented, more artistic, and far far more lovable than the Uber conformist and often boring Teutonic. Maybe it’s the Celtic blood in my veins but I am at home there - and never was in the German speaking world. No offence Jurgen (but you are a one off) That is why so many of my friends are from the former Yugoslavia and your native Bulgaria where I have also travelled extensively. My wife is from Naples in southern Italy where they are also extremely hot headed and very Balkanic too. I love that.

Does feel a bit like you think I am senile though. 47 isn’t that old mate. Trust me it happens fast :D

[Balinkay]

Maybe I'm a bit touchy, since most of the stereotype surrounding my part of the world aren't too nice. :D Though tbf, a lot of them are firmly based in reality. :D

I don't think you're senile. You're probably a bit influenced by having seen him when you were young - I'm the same - for some irrational reason I have the feeling players like Figo, Zidane, Okocha, Raul, Costacurta are somehow all time greats, when that's not really necessarily the case for all of them. I mean it feels like Zidane is currently one of the most overrated players in the history of the game, largely thanks to people of my generation who saw him in his undoubtedly impressive pomp.

Btw, I used to play footie with a mate about your age. Fit dude and really knew the game, as do you seemingly... until he tore an ACL with the ball at his feet, ten feet away from the closest defender (who was me). He wasn't even running! Just stepped in a bit of a hole on the pitch and we all heard a nasty crunch. :(

[justincredible]

Surely City can afford the €700m, no?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54032101

[Steveo]

Yes but does he REALLY want to go...? I mean like - really...?

[miller0863]

Well he reckons he’s staying as he doesn’t want to be party to taking Barcelona to court.

[justme]

I doubt he ever really wanted to go, he had show everyone what kinda ego he has and its massive.. Hes bigger than the club. because things arent going his way.
Its actually the facts his position on the pitch that makes it impossible for the rest of the team. He scores loads of goals. But it does leave Barca open at the back. Thats why Argentina have never quite done it with him in the 11. International teams are just has good as Argentina at keeping the ball.. in Spain when teams sit back in numbers it allows Barca the ball and they are good then. when teams press them high and keep the ball when they have it, they struggle.

[Balinkay]

Noone should be bigger than a club. Noone.

That said, if someone has a case for it... has ever had a case for it - he'd be one of them.

[Kev0909]

Maybe I'm a bit touchy, since most of the stereotype surrounding my part of the world aren't too nice. :D Though tbf, a lot of them are firmly based in reality. :D

I don't think you're senile. You're probably a bit influenced by having seen him when you were young - I'm the same - for some irrational reason I have the feeling players like Figo, Zidane, Okocha, Raul, Costacurta are somehow all time greats, when that's not really necessarily the case for all of them. I mean it feels like Zidane is currently one of the most overrated players in the history of the game, largely thanks to people of my generation who saw him in his undoubtedly impressive pomp.

Btw, I used to play footie with a mate about your age. Fit dude and really knew the game, as do you seemingly... until he tore an ACL with the ball at his feet, ten feet away from the closest defender (who was me). He wasn't even running! Just stepped in a bit of a hole on the pitch and we all heard a nasty crunch. :(

I'll toiuch you

[Balinkay]

I'll toiuch you

You and noone else, Kev.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/830/sad_frog.jpg

[justincredible]

You, Justin and no one else, Kev.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/830/sad_frog.jpg
Fixed that for you Bali.... XXxX

[Balinkay]

Justin <3

[Kev0909]

Fixed that for you Bali.... XXxX

We could do it together

Glorious!

[justincredible]

Even better than Mo, Sadio and Bobby XXxX

[Insidious]

Well, Rakitic and seemingly Suarez are gone.

Who next?

[Balinkay]

Vidal.

[Insidious]

Vidal.

He's 33 - makes sense.

What a mess.

[Insidious]

They are currently six points off Top Four.

It is a long season and they have done well in Europe thus far this season, but they could do with clawing some of the gap back sooner rather than later - missing out on Champion's League football next season could see them fall apart - and Camp Nou is already quite literally crumbling, which won't be a cheap fix, nor will replacing an aging side.

[reddownunder]

Atletico will be kicking themselves if they don't win la liga this season

[RedNoodle]

Atletico will be kicking themselves if they don't win la liga this season

That will make a change from them kicking their opponents.

[dicko1969]

Barcelona's interim president Carles Tusquets asked about the possibility of the club going into administration recently.

Barcelona have €1billion+ on the wage bill .... 61% of income.

This season income is down re covid.

So wages are likely to be 80% of income!

[dicko1969]

Three Billion Boys

- they have income at €1bn, costs at €1bn and debt creeping up to €1bn too

[Balinkay]

Their players have agreet to wave a non-trivial amount of their salaries iirc.

They'll still get top4, but if they don't, the lack of CL money might seriously hurt them.

[Insidious]

The fact their Director (he has since backtracked, but damage done) said in an interview that they're basically hoping for free transfers in the Summer and should have sold Messi says everything.

If they do indeed miss out on Top Four (I think they'll have a run at some point to keep themselves safe) you wonder what happens next - especially if the rumours about Messi are true (pre-agreed terms with PSG) as he's their main talent.

Wonder what they would take for Fati.

[CCTV]

The fact their Director (he has since backtracked, but damage done) said in an interview that they're basically hoping for free transfers in the Summer and should have sold Messi says everything.

If they do indeed miss out on Top Four (I think they'll have a run at some point to keep themselves safe) you wonder what happens next - especially if the rumours about Messi are true (pre-agreed terms with PSG) as he's their main talent.

Wonder what they would take for Fati.

Looks like AC Monza are winning the race to sign Balotelli

[LEGS]

Gini would be off his nut to go to them.

Koeman will be sacked so it rules the Dutch link out.

Basically its good news for us they are struggling for money and Madrid main targets are Mbappe/Haland means our players are fairly safe from being poached.