Thiago, the man who makes gaps appear

[3underpar]

By Simon Hughes, today


In the summer of 2004, Liverpool were about as far away from the position they are in now as they could be. A new cycle was beginning under Rafa Benitez. Chelsea were trying to sign Steven Gerrard. The captain needed support in midfield but a deal for Xabi Alonso did not look like it was going to happen. Real Madrid wanted him but they wondered whether he was too slow and ended up messing him around for too long. This created an opportunity for Liverpool.

The reports about Alonso started on Merseyside almost as soon as Benitez was appointed. Two and a half months later, he was finally a Liverpool player and Gerrard was still there. He and Jamie Carragher had seen a bit of him on Sky because of Real Sociedad’s rise up the league during the 2002-03 season when the Basques finished second.

Keen, established footballers are observers of new signings as much as fans are — but of course, they know better about which smaller details to look out for. To Carragher at least, there was something about the way Alonso tied his bootlaces that reinforced the impression that he might be half decent. Alonso pulled them really tight, like he meant business – in comparison to Igor Biscan who was sitting next to him, it has to be said. Then he adjusted his shin pads, ensuring the top of his training socks were almost at knee level. Out on the grass, Alonso started to make passes.

He was unafraid to make difficult choices but always thundered them towards team-mates, testing their touch. As much as he was being watched, he was watching them; trying to gain an understanding of the new technical abilities around him. “Stevie and I knew straight away that Xabi would be a success,” Carragher remembered.

thiago-alonso-liverpool
Thiago and Alonso both filled the same roles with the same national team as well as Bayern Munich with such distinction (Photo: Team 2 Sportphoto/ullstein bild via Getty Images)
What would you pay to watch footage of that session at Melwood? What, indeed, would you pay to watch football of the first session that involves Thiago Alcantara all these years later? There are comparisons to be made between Thiago and Alonso because both have filled the same roles with the same national team as well as Bayern Munich with such distinction. Both have been raised by fathers who were successful professional footballers in La Liga. Though Periko Alonso played a decade earlier than Mazinho, the pair were regarded not only as the brains of enterprising sides from San Sebastian and Vigo but the lungs as well.

From a position on the side of a pitch at Bayern’s training facility, Alonso once told me that he appreciated what a footballer looked like because of his experiences helping warming up the reserve goalkeepers of clubs like Tolosa, Beasain and Eibar where his father had managed. He understood what it took to become a footballer and he understood what it took to maintain standards. Weirdly, it was at that point Thiago – then a team-mate in the Bayern midfield – walked past. Alonso embraced him firmly and said as he trotted away, “A player, a player…” Great footballers know other great footballers…

Jurgen Klopp has a way with words and it seems now that he really meant it when he said recently that Liverpool would not defend their Premier League crown, they’d instead, “attack it.” The task he faces is a new one in his career because he hasn’t had to sell any of his best players like he did at Borussia Dortmund after each of his Bundesliga titles. Throughout the summer there has been no sense of absence or loss at Anfield.

For Klopp, the questions instead are a very different ones: how do you keep improving a world-class team where the individuals are approaching their peak even though they have already won the game’s most coveted prizes? Motivation at a base level should not be a problem but how to you push them to their farthest extreme? Can you get even more out of personalities you already know so well?

It will not just be Liverpool’s competing midfielders watching Thiago closely when he puts his boots on at Melwood the first time. Despite his achievements, he’ll be desperate to impress them and in turn they’ll be desperate to impress him. Training standards will increase. Mohamed Salah, Sadio Mane and Roberto Firmino will be salivating at the thought of the service they’ll be getting. Virgil van Dijk and Alisson Becker will be confident they’ll be receiving better protection because Thiago does that side of the game well too.

Though some gaps remain in the squad, the team itself had seemed almost impossible to improve. Only a select few of the world’s best players were capable of making Liverpool’s starting XI better than it already was but Thiago — arguably the best player on the pitch during the Champions League final — will do that. His passing range probably isn’t as extensive as Alonso’s but his shorter game is more incisive and he leaves you with the impression that his movement and thought is quicker in tight spaces. He is always trying to find a way forward.

At Bayern, the much taller and rangy Leon Goretzka moved from box to box and Thiago’s responsibility was a deeper one but you could not describe him as a sitting midfielder. So often over the last few seasons especially, his pass has been the one before the assist and this reflects a willingness to join the attack. “He does not wait for the gaps to appear,” reflected Michael Ballack, the former Bayern and Chelsea midfielder. “He makes them appear.”

During Liverpool’s briefest of pre-seasons, Klopp has experimented with new team shapes and one of those used was his old 4-2-3-1 formation from his Dortmund days. Perhaps this reveals what he might do with Thiago, who was nevertheless reared at Barcelona, where 4-3-3 is sacred. In the most important games over the last two or three seasons his midfield has been a three of Jordan Henderson, Fabinho and Georginio Wijnaldum and it would appear that the latter’s position will face the most scrutiny following Thiago’s arrival, possibly even leading to a departure. Sources at Liverpool have this morning told the The Athletic that the club’s fourth captain is expected to remain at Anfield until the end of the season, however.

Thiago’s signing is untypical of Liverpool because he is a 29-year-old with a status of superstar proportions and this is a club with a history of moulding rather than buying them. Not so long ago, Klopp insisted he did not want to coach Kylian Mbappe but the next Kylian Mbappe. The recruitment of Thiago is hardly a surprise given the length and depth of the conversation about him since he was first linked but his arrival is a departure from Klopp’s original thinking.

Despite some impressions of Klopp, he does not subscribe to dogma – nor is he stubborn. This might be perceived as a weakness when really it should be considered a strength. The challenge is always changing in football and nobody predicted COVID-19 or its impact. In those empty stadiums where opponents have been better placed to soak up pressure because of the lack of frustration or urgency from supporters, he must surely have been able to see that Liverpool needed something different in midfield.

Thiago changes the schemes of rival managers who might have started believing they understand Klopp better, as well as his already brilliant title-winning team.

[Insidious]

Training standards will increase. Mohamed Salah, Sadio Mane and Roberto Firmino will be salivating at the thought of the service they’ll be getting. Virgil van Dijk and Alisson Becker will be confident they’ll be receiving better protection because Thiago does that side of the game well too.

Thiago changes the schemes of rival managers who might have started believing they understand Klopp better, as well as his already brilliant title-winning team.

Assuming all goes well and we don't see another Fekir situation (Heaven forbid....) these are the bits to be most excited about.

[Steveo]

Thanks 3underpar

[ianlfc]

Is it true we're paying Bayern £5 million a year for 5 years,for him ?

[teesred]

Is it true we're paying Bayern £5 million a year for 5 years,for him ?

4 years.

[Insidious]

Is it true we're paying Bayern £5 million a year for 5 years,for him ?

4 years, possible add-ons if we win the Premier League / Champion's League.

Michael Edwards might be the first guy in his position to get a song at this rate :lol:

[worldpanel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/iv81wv/the_internet_is_a_weird_and_wonderful_place/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[ianlfc]

He speaks perfect English as well.

[miller0863]

Class that Worlpanel

[Steveo]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/iv81wv/the_internet_is_a_weird_and_wonderful_place/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Bloody hilarious.. Wicked....

[fiordearg]

Diogo Jota?

[dicko1969]

Thjiagggggooo Thiago Alacantra
To Cuba Gibson Brothers

[shminkyred]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/iv81wv/the_internet_is_a_weird_and_wonderful_place/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Thanks for that....It will be in my head all day now....lol.....

[dicko1969]

What's happened?
From world class toty to getting slaughtered?

[Steveo]

He’s had a tough introduction. Derby v the BS - injured . Comes back into a side with one or 2 centre mids at centre back.

[teesred]

Next season when we see the best of him, full healthy squad and probably a couple of new midfield additions. His tackling is rash but some of the criticism is way off. Not too harsh on here though.
He'll come good,

[jozza800]

He’s had a tough introduction. Derby v the BS - injured . Comes back into a side with one or 2 centre mids at centre back.

Yep. Got to agree.

I didn't think he'd fit when signed. My description of him was a 'bits and pieces' player. Whilst I still don't think he's the second of christ, he's certainly a better player than he's showing. But we can say that of any of our squad at the moment.

[GizmoD12]

In my opinion he is trying to be to cute,we know his passing abilities are amazing but he rarely passes simple, they are bouncy Curly ones which are hard to read and even harder to control.
He should have took over that game yesterday and just passed and moved draw fouls suck less experienced players who most opposition are and be the player he is.
The tackling and rashness in his game is a stick to beat him with, as we know these refs like nothing more than putting stars in there place.
Europe will suit him but he will targeted just the same. Recycle play keep the ball stretch the shit outta teams.

[Nineteenx]

Like all the players currently getting bashed regularly, we'll see the best of them when we're back to full strength and playing a settled side using the same 14-15 players for most games

Thiago's really not the kind of player we need for PTB teams to be honest, that's not his best ability, his best ability is picking those passes that take 3 or 4 opposition players out of the game in matches in which both sides are playing football and being the metronome in keeping possession really well before springing such passes in games we're ahead in

I think he has to adapt and do things quicker, play more direct and not overplay in certain types of games, he has the passing to connect our forwards runs early and needs to start doing that

Fabian Ruiz, his international team mate is definitely more of a player for PTB teams, hugely experienced in numerous midfield and forward positions, great at switches, passing, shooting and set pieces and for me the ideal player to compliment what we already have, especially if Gini's allowed to leave

Ruiz's ability to make the play and be direct from numerous areas of the pitch was why we always found games against Napoli so tough

[Nineteenx]

Hmmmm let's think a second here..........

We have a player who can make gaps appear but struggles against PTB sides

We have a playmaker forward who is crowded out by 2 or 3 opposition players everytime he gets the ball and can't get turned to make the play, even moreso against PTB sides

We have 2 of Europes best forwards who are both excellent at outside in runs we struggle to get service to with any time a space against PTB sides

Is it maybe, just maybe possible our playmaker forward can run those 2 or 3 opposition players into areas left or right and play passes into him off first time wide, square or central to Thiago creating the gaps for him to exploit to either forward making outside in runs who in turn could possibly find each other or our playmaker forward having spun and made a forward run after popping the ball off first time?

[redebreck]

Picking up a few yellows at the moment, isn't he?

[faridtoxteth]

Picking up a few yellows at the moment, isn't he?

I think that is because he is playing in a midfield that is missing two vital players, although Gini has been very tenacious recently. Curtis had a great game last night, but he is still a bit hot and cold sometimes.

[skyebo]

I think that is because he is playing in a midfield that is missing two vital players, although Gini has been very tenacious recently. Curtis had a great game last night, but he is still a bit hot and cold sometimes.

How is the fact that 2 people are missing got to do with him picking up yellow cards, and his form in general ?. He is supposed to be a great player in his own right, or that's what people are saying about him. I hope he doesn't become another Lovren or Matip who only improved when someone decent came in, because up to now he isn't cutting it.

[faridtoxteth]

If the midfield isn't functioning to its best level then that midfield is going to be under more pressure.
I would reserve judgement until we've seen him playing in something remotely resembling our strongest team. The structure is all over the place at the moment. The dynamism of the whole system is fucked, from back to front.

[Nineteenx]

I think that is because he is playing in a midfield that is missing two vital players, although Gini has been very tenacious recently. Curtis had a great game last night, but he is still a bit hot and cold sometimes.

There is one thing that all our midfielders playing at their highest levels and having their best games for the club have in common, all of them, every single one of them, have come playing in a midfield 3 with Hendo and Gini, Thiago hasn't had the chance to play with those 2 in midfield even once

People talk a lot about our midfield, but they miss this key point and underrate both those players and their importance quite dramatically

[Nineteenx]

If the midfield isn't functioning to its best level then that midfield is going to be under more pressure.
I would reserve judgement until we've seen him playing in something remotely resembling our strongest team. The structure is all over the place at the moment. The dynamism of the whole system is fucked, from back to front.

Don't worry about SKyebo, most other people see that making stupid comparisons on how players are performing right now with other players performances in our best 11 when everything else behind alongside and in front of them was functioning at its very highest levels is just plain ridiculous

[skyebo]

Don't worry about SKyebo, most other people see that making stupid comparisons on how players are performing right now with other players performances in our best 11 when everything else behind alongside and in front of them was functioning at its very highest levels is just plain ridiculous

What makes you think that a midfield 3 of Henderson Thiago and Wijnaldum is the best one ? You've already said they haven't yet played together, you are just speculating nothing more. In any case, Wijnaldum is unlikely to be here next season, so what happens then, do we give Thiago another 20 games to get used to someone else?. I would rather give some of the youngsters more time to settle in, than someone of Thiago's reputation. And you're right, you don't need to worry about me, i have my opinions and don't follow a crowd. I'm sure you ain't bothered that few people agree with you about Fabinho. Keita, another player who came with high hopes has been getting stick for most of his time here, from me too. I don't see why Thiago should get a free ride. I'm not alone on this one either.

[eggy81]

He seems good at making gaps appear in our team at the moment

[Nineteenx]

What makes you think that a midfield 3 of Henderson Thiago and Wijnaldum is the best one ?

Because every other midfielder we have has had their very best games in a 3 with Hendo and Gini and Thiago's a class player

[Kev0909]

Because every other midfielder we have has had their very best games in a 3 with Hendo and Gini and Thiago's a class player

the real answer

Because i'm a douche who doesn't rate title /champions league winning fabinho when he bossed the midfield, for us to win by so much and we clearly miss him in midfield but obviously he's still shite because I know my stuff, I'm 19x who trains infront of mirrors

Thiago has shown nothing as of yet to automatically start ahead of fabinho with everyone fit, I don't see how wij is much better in a lot of games either.

Next season is henderson thiago and fabinho for me, rather have a stevie g in there somewhere, for goals from midfield so we wouldn't have to rely on salah but yeah.

Truth is with fabinho in midfield, with henderson / wij we bossed games, we wasn't easily got at, controlled em

only player that's actually scored some screamers too from midfield is mainly Fabinho... so there's that too, and he to on many occasions played some lovely balls over the top that led to goals.

[skyebo]

Because every other midfielder we have has had their very best games in a 3 with Hendo and Gini and Thiago's a class player

So Klopp could start that midfield against Everton, if it's that good it shouldn't matter who plays at the back, they will be well protected right ? They are all fit and available.

[Nineteenx]

Thiago has shown nothing as of yet to automatically start ahead of fabinho with everyone fit.


Fabinho has shown absolutely nothing neat the form that so many of you rate him so highly for since he returned from injury, Henderson played better and the team played better and evolved in his absence, Fab took the shirt, he got injured, Hendo came back in at CM and raised the bar, higher than Fab had ever set it, better distribution, better pressing and counter pressing, better organising, leading and influencing all the other players around him, developed it into a fluid midfield 3 which was much harder to set up to counter against, more goals, more assists, more passes before the assist that made the assist, more big chances created.

All of that having happened, Fab never should have come straight back in when fit, because the lad who took and had the shirt did better, just as Fab did better than Hendo when he first took the shirt, you can't have it both ways

Edit: And unlike you lot, I wasn't crying about it, Fab did come in and do better and he had the shirt and rightly so that's how it's supposed to be, when he got found out a bit for the things I've said he does wrong, Hendo had to be brought back in at RCM and then when Fab got injured he came back into the centre and raised the bar higher, he worked his bollocks off to improve the elements of his game Fab had been brought in for being better at, to be better than Fab, all I'm asking, well, demanding :D is that Fab do the fucking same, that's how it should always be and he hasn't

[Nineteenx]

So Klopp could start that midfield against Everton, if it's that good it shouldn't matter who plays at the back, they will be well protected right ? They are all fit and available.

I'd like to see that, big difference to playing that 3 as we're playing at the moment and playing it when we're at our best and all the pressing and counter pressing including from the forwards and 2 full backs is as finely honed, tuned and as in sync as Henderson had it last season prior to Fab coming back in

[miller0863]

On current form I’d like to see Gini at 6, ably assisted by Hendo and Jones.

[Nineteenx]

On current form I’d like to see Gini at 6, ably assisted by Hendo and Jones.

My main reason for wanting to see Thiago with Hendo and Gini, involves trying to get that passing going and having Hendo's passing along with it and the need to do something or try something different with Bobby, try him running those 2 or 3 players who will be looking to crowd him out into an area left of right with his running off the ball and laying it off first time and trying to open the gaps a little for Thiago to try and pick the outside in runs from Mo and Mane taking 4 or 5 opposition players out of the game as we know he can

[miller0863]

Thiago needs time for me, he’s trying too hard to impress so fails to do the simple thing when it’s necessary and he’s often way out of position because he is still getting to grips with what is required of him.
He may end up a world beater at Anfield but I don’t think he’s ready. Been terrible so far

[ianlfc]

He's no Steven Gerrard.

[miller0863]

Another shocker today.

[ianlfc]

Another shocker today.

Even with Hendo and Fabinho fit I don't see him bringing anything to our game. A decent player but we've seen it all before.

[miller0863]

He doesn’t do anything Gini can’t do better.

[Kev0909]

Main players I have a concern with Is bobby/Mane/Thiago

salah to a certain extent, but when we score it's normally because of him, needs to stop diving though.

Players like Jones and kabak shouldn't get the blame

[CCTV]

Thiago 4 tackles
Jones 2 interceptions
Gini 0

We're in a right pickle.
Issues at centre back largely the same.
Issues in midfield being too lightweight. No fab, hendo or Milner.
Can't carry a front 3 in their form.

Need to adjust our setup to deal with what we have. Probably only able to carry Salah as a lone striker. The other 2 in midfield.
Not many options for midfield tbh. No real warrior in there at present.

[ianlfc]

Thiago 4 tackles
Jones 2 interceptions
Gini 0

We're in a right pickle.
Issues at centre back largely the same.
Issues in midfield being too lightweight. No fab, hendo or Milner.
Can't carry a front 3 in their form.

Need to adjust our setup to deal with what we have. Probably only able to carry Salah as a lone striker. The other 2 in midfield.
Not many options for midfield tbh. No real warrior in there at present.

I'd actually forgot about Milner being injured.

[CCTV]

I'd actually forgot about Milner being injured.

One of 3 players who reliably bring grit to our midfield, Gini can on his day and thiago just gets booked too often.

[LEGS]

Thiago 4 tackles
Jones 2 interceptions
Gini 0

We're in a right pickle.
Issues at centre back largely the same.
Issues in midfield being too lightweight. No fab, hendo or Milner.
Can't carry a front 3 in their form.

Need to adjust our setup to deal with what we have. Probably only able to carry Salah as a lone striker. The other 2 in midfield.
Not many options for midfield tbh. No real warrior in there at present.

Wenger called it last week he said its our midfield that has caused the slump.

He is bang on we just cannot rotate and two of them have been at the back.

Nothing is going to change this season we just dont have the options to keep us fresh.

I'll reserve judgment until this BCD shit has gone.

[eggy81]

He’s been terrible so far unfortunately.

[teesred]

He adds nothing that wasn't there before. His passing today was abysmal.
This season is a write off for all concerned so hopefully its different for the next.

[jozza800]

Thiago will be Gini's replacement. The two of them are so similar. Too much sameness at the moment in midfield.

Hendo in midfield might have helped, but that's not going to be possible for weeks.

It's a sad state of affairs when Naby coming into the side could make a big difference.

[justme]

hes slow and ponderous and under passes his passes. Reminds me of Lallana he always under passed his passes.
I hope we can come to some agreement and let him return to Bayern..Unlikely, If Firmino is allowed to not score goals for nearly 2 seasons apart from here and there. Anything is possible.

[Nineteenx]

Thiago will be Gini's replacement. The two of them are so similar. Too much sameness at the moment in midfield.

Hendo in midfield might have helped, but that's not going to be possible for weeks.

It's a sad state of affairs when Naby coming into the side could make a big difference.

He's the only midfielder we have other than Hendo who will try and play it in to the forwards as quickly as possible, different kind of passing, doesn't have switches or balls over the top, but tries to play through balls and balls into feet he follows into our forwards quickly

It's no surprise or coincidence our very best midfield performances of the last 2 seasons all featured the same 3 players, Gini Hendo and Keita, Keita's more direct approach on the deck with Hendo's aerial switches and balls over the top is a combo of threatening and testing the opposition defence only they can bring

[ianlfc]

He's the only midfielder we have other than Hendo who will try and play it in to the forwards as quickly as possible, different kind of passing, doesn't have switches or balls over the top, but tries to play through balls and balls into feet he follows into our forwards quickly

It's no surprise or coincidence our very best midfield performances of the last 2 seasons all featured the same 3 players, Gini Hendo and Keita, Keita's more direct approach on the deck with Hendo's aerial switches and balls over the top is a combo of threatening and testing the opposition defence only they can bring
What games were they ?

[teesred]

Thiago will be Gini's replacement. The two of them are so similar. Too much sameness at the moment in midfield.

Hendo in midfield might have helped, but that's not going to be possible for weeks.

It's a sad state of affairs when Naby coming into the side could make a big difference.

The midfield is simply awful in terms of creativity and it has been for months. Three workmanlike players constantly regardless of who is in, there is zero creativity in there and thats our biggest problem right now. Teams are more than happy to give us the ball as we simply aren't a threat anymore.
I never thought I'd be happy to advocate Keita starting games but right now I'd like to see anything different its so desperate. We are just continuing to do the same things and expecting a different result.
Souness is bang on when he says we are an easy touch.

[teesred]

What games were they ?

This will be a gem I'm sure.
Our best midfield games have been with a guy in there who we can literally count on one hand the good games he's had in 3 seasons.
Fucks sake.

[justme]

Our best midfield has been Fabhino Henderson Wijnaldum.. Fk knows what position Thiago will play. Hes not a DM hes to weak to play in a 2 and hes not an attacking midfielder. So ive no idea where he fits in.

[ianlfc]

This will be a gem I'm sure.
Our best midfield games have been with a guy in there who we can literally count on one hand the good games he's had in 3 seasons.
Fucks sake.

I've just had a look and we hammered Utd at Anfield last season with Hendo, Gini and Ox.
Did we ever have a best XI ? It was always about momentum either us whoever came in.

[Nineteenx]

The midfield is simply awful in terms of creativity and it has been for months. Three workmanlike players constantly regardless of who is in, there is zero creativity in there and thats our biggest problem right now. Teams are more than happy to give us the ball as we simply aren't a threat anymore.
I never thought I'd be happy to advocate Keita starting games but right now I'd like to see anything different its so desperate. We are just continuing to do the same things and expecting a different result.
Souness is bang on when he says we are an easy touch.

Why do you Kev and others hold this grossly misplaced belief Fab coming back into midfield would change that? He's got the least creative ability of all of them

How is it going to solve our lack of creativity or moreso getting the ball forward early, playing it or at least attempting to when it's on and give us the switches and attempted balls over the top to mix things up we've been missing so desperately?

[Nineteenx]

I've just had a look and we hammered Utd at Anfield last season with Hendo, Gini and Ox.
Did we ever have a best XI ? It was always about momentum either us whoever came in.

Our best midfield the last 2 seasons has always been Hendo Gini and another and been at its very best with Hendo at CM and a fluid interchanging 3

[ianlfc]

Our best midfield the last 2 seasons has always been Hendo Gini and another and been at its very best with Hendo at CM and a fluid interchanging 3

so what games were they with Kieta in it ?

[teesred]

Why do you Kev and others hold this grossly misplaced belief Fab coming back into midfield would change that? He's got the least creative ability of all of them

How is it going to solve our lack of creativity or moreso getting the ball forward early, playing it or at least attempting to when it's on and give us the switches and attempted balls over the top to mix things up we've been missing so desperately?

I've never once said that.
Hes obviously not the one for creativity. I just think he's our best DM and with him back in there and Hendo at RCM we would be way better but that's not going to happen this season at all so we have to use what we have which is currently a 3 of either Jones,Thiago,Gini or Milner. Literally nothing there in terms of creativity.
Theres Ox and Keita. 2 players I've got less time for than you have for Fabinho.
I've always thought previously that when Keita starts our midfield dynamic loses something, Gini and Milner give us that solidity but it has no guile.
I'd start Keita if he's available next game but I wouldn't have my hopes up. I'd just rather we tried something different as what we are currently doing is not bringing is anything. If we do get something from a game its Salah who is usually getting it for us, nobody else is contributing.

[Nineteenx]

What games were they ?

There are only 6 or 7 because of Naby's injuries i'm not going to look all of them up, off the top of my head the 2 that immediately spring to mind,, best performances last season and this 4-0 v Leicester on boxing day and 7-0 v Palace this, the first being widely regarded as one of our best ever, almost perfect displays under Jurgen

[teesred]

Didnt he go off injured in 7-0 against Palace?
And woild you include that in our best games of the last 3 years?
We were lucky not to be 3-0 down at half time.

[dicko1969]

I guess this will sound like a bashing or him a scapegoat.

At the start of the season we were hoping;

Henderson Fabinho Thiago

As the midfield 3.

Has it been used yet ?
I m not sure.

The first moments of Thiago he was pinging the ball about like I've never seen.

Now he is just making the simple ball ; sideways.

Confidence of the team doesn't help.
Plus injuries.
But with Gini at CDM Thiago sits there too.
But as a 6 does Thiago have defensively what Fabinho has and as does Gini and Hendo.

Really disappointed in Thiago.
Yellow cards
No goals
No assists.

Obviously a world class player.
But him in the centre midfield the pressing game of the team is very reduced with Thiago in it.

[eggy81]

I guess this will sound like a bashing or him a scapegoat.

At the start of the season we were hoping;

Henderson Fabinho Thiago

As the midfield 3.

Has it been used yet ?
I m not sure.

The first moments of Thiago he was pinging the ball about like I've never seen.

Now he is just making the simple ball ; sideways.

Confidence of the team doesn't help.
Plus injuries.
But with Gini at CDM Thiago sits there too.
But as a 6 does Thiago have defensively what Fabinho has and as does Gini and Hendo.

Really disappointed in Thiago.
Yellow cards
No goals
No assists.

Obviously a world class player.
But him in the centre midfield the pressing game of the team is very reduced with Thiago in it.

And he’s not even hitting the passes with conviction.

[LEGS]

Thiago has played with Fabinho/Hendo once in the away derby.

You know the game we completely bossed.

Im going with Klopp in that he says we not see the best of Thiago this season and we wont.

If after the first ten games he is poor then we may have an issue but give hin his due he has probably played more games for us then Keita has in 3 years !

[Nineteenx]

I guess this will sound like a bashing or him a scapegoat.

At the start of the season we were hoping;

Henderson Fabinho Thiago

As the midfield 3.

Has it been used yet ?
I m not sure.

The first moments of Thiago he was pinging the ball about like I've never seen.

Now he is just making the simple ball ; sideways.

Confidence of the team doesn't help.
Plus injuries.
But with Gini at CDM Thiago sits there too.
But as a 6 does Thiago have defensively what Fabinho has and as does Gini and Hendo.

Really disappointed in Thiago.
Yellow cards
No goals
No assists.

Obviously a world class player.
But him in the centre midfield the pressing game of the team is very reduced with Thiago in it.

I was hoping for Gini Hendo Thiago as all our other midfielders best performances have all come playing with Gini and Hendo, including Fab

The pressing game is a who we've not got in defence and Hendo and Gini not being in midfield issue, the last 2 seasons we played a very high risk game with our high press and it was reliant on having Virgil and Matip or Virgil and Gomez in defence

[ianlfc]

Timing is everything in life, and ever since he's came into the squad we've been awful.
Obviously not all his fault but it doesn't look good on him.

[darrenpotter]

Does the thread title need changing to Thiago the man who makes gaps disappear

[Nineteenx]

Does the thread title need changing to Thiago the man who makes gaps disappear

I could create a thread with almost the same title for another player, only the gaps he makes appear are for the opposition :D

The simple matter is, the way we are playing, blocks the lines for him to make the kind of passes that made him renouned as world class and saw him win 9 league titles and 2 Champions League trophies in 11 years with 2 different clubs

Can he be asked to be more direct at time, play the switches and attempted balls over the top we've been missing through Hendo's absence from midfield, Absolutely

Given how teams swamping Bobby with 2 or 3 players is making him ineffectual AND blocking the lines for the kind of passing Thiago is renouned for, can we do more and use Bobby a little differently to change that dynamic? Absolutely

[Nineteenx]

Wrong player, for all Steveo's belittling of the quality of the more direct balls Hendo was spraying around at will last season, it seems very apparent Thiago doesn't have those balls in his locker at all, as he's been trying to play them and be more direct the last few games without any success whatsoever

What we needed in the summer was a Fabian Ruiz type, and to evolve our full backs play, Thiago's the player to add after that step of evolution, when your play and movement has developed that little bit more and is a lot cuter, there was never anything, apart from Bobby on the odd occasion, smart or clever or cute about how we played, we were just very direct and very fucking good at it, We needed to add a more creative midfielder or two in every sense of the term who could play our press and add the type of killer balls, goals, crosses and assists Bacon Face provides for City and we were supposed to get from Keita, evolve naturally with that or with a couple more midfielders like that, THEN add a Thiago

Thiago's a metronome midfielder who can suddenly pick that pass to find that more creative midfielder or forward (our forwards aren't creative forwards either) between the lines and all of the finely developed greater variation of movement and ability to play through sides quickly and directly all clicks together around the point in which he has found that more creative midfielder or forward

[fiordearg]

OK since he's returned to the team we've been dogshite at home. 5 losses in a row!

[Nineteenx]

OK since he's returned to the team we've been dogshite at home. 5 losses in a row!

Think he's been playing as he's our only midfielder other than Hendo who 'should' be able to play the switches, balls over the top and pick out our forwards runs in behind, but on the evidence of him trying to do that and be more direct the last few games, it turns out he isn't even close to Hendo's ability to play those more direct balls, along with all our other midfielders

Nothing much we can do to change it, Naby and Milner are our best bet for actually creating something with a forward pass from midfield at the moment, neither can play the switches or balls over the top either, but they can potentially thread one through, or maybe Shaq too, with the overplaying bollocks it seems most of our players have got into the terrible habit of taking too many touches though

it's like back to basics, learning to play again, when that gap is there to thread the ball through, they need to be playing it, if the forwards on his heels and not alive to it, it's at least prompting them to be alive to it next time, try it again, repeat

[Insidious]

I remain convinced that Thiago is an excellent footballer. Whether or not he is the right fit for us is a question that is regularly rearing its head now though.

I do want to see him OR Wijnaldum play for a couple of games. They seem to end up trying to occupy the same sorts of spaces at times when trying to show for the ball.

Also, to be fair to Thiago, he does tend to play several progressive passes towards Firmino, the eye test telling me he does it more in the early part of games - not sure if people stop showing for the ball or if it's some weird tactical nuance but it seems to drop off as a game progresses.

Wish we had seen him for a run of games in a midfield three of Thiago, Fabinho and Henderson as that feels like it would be nicely balanced but we aren't getting it this season. Hope it works out for him with us - too many question marks just now.

[jozza800]

As I said when we signed him he's what I call a 'bits and pieces playee' - capabale of the sublime but more often than not doesnt do a great deal. A bit like Luis Garcia.

[ianlfc]

As I said when we signed him he's what I call a 'bits and pieces playee' - capabale of the sublime but more often than not doesnt do a great deal. A bit like Luis Garcia.

At least Luis would get a round of Sangria in.

[Kev0909]

Will judge him when the teams at the standard we all expect, not completely fucking shite

if we ever get to that standard ***

[eggy81]

I’m going to do what I should have done a long time ago and start backing our opponents. Champions league and 2nd here we come. Ye can thank me in may.

[ianlfc]

That was more like it last night, A big game player turning up. He just needs to be reminded we expect that kind of performance in every game. Thats how we became the best.

[HLOGI]

That was more like it last night, A big game player turning up. He just needs to be reminded we expect that kind of performance in every game. Thats how we became the best.

Having muscle next to him in midfield help. The midfield was so balanced. Gini could run with the ball. Fabinho the shield and Thiago could be a disruptor and bit in challenges knowing that there is cover. His passing was at his level.

[Insidious]

That was more like it last night, A big game player turning up. He just needs to be reminded we expect that kind of performance in every game. Thats how we became the best.

He was Boss last night. Having a better midfield three will have helped, he has calmed down the more erratic tackles and if/when he makes a mistake now, he'll be further up the pitch with Fabinho covering, so mistakes should be less costly in theory.

It's a treat watching him. Also loved that he had a couple of Crane kicks last night :lol: including that pass to Salah. Thiago was Kung-Fu fiiiightiiiing, nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah naaaah!!!!!

[justme]

Lets not get carried away. the opponents played a very high line as well last night.. Im yet to see how he can influence an intense game of football in the premier league..Its all about winning an high percentage of games.. But in the middle of the park. Im unconvinced that hes the answer.but time will tell

[Nineteenx]

He was Boss last night. Having a better midfield three will have helped, he has calmed down the more erratic tackles and if/when he makes a mistake now, he'll be further up the pitch with Fabinho covering, so mistakes should be less costly in theory.

It's a treat watching him. Also loved that he had a couple of Crane kicks last night :lol: including that pass to Salah. Thiago was Kung-Fu fiiiightiiiing, nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah naaaah!!!!!

Gini and Thiago then Naby too actually covered Fab's high press several times second half, look where Naby is when Fab tries to play Mo in, the No6 position

I liked that a lot, a different kind of fluid 3 and if LCM and RCM are to quickly assume the No6 position when Fab engages in his high destroyer thing i'm a lot happier, he needs to know he can't vacate that space when they're both ahead of him though

[RedNoodle]

One game in a European cup competition against a team that offered nothing, never mind playing at a lower intensity than a PL team a season/career does not make. He still has a lot to do in order to prove that he is not only suitable for us and Klopp's style of play, but that he is able to consistently put in good performances in the PL.

[dicko1969]

Lets not get carried away. the opponents played a very high line as well last night.. Im yet to see how he can influence an intense game of football in the premier league..Its all about winning an high percentage of games.. But in the middle of the park. Im unconvinced that hes the answer.but time will tell
It was so nice to see an opposing team trying to play football .

Instead of the bore of 11 behind the ball and liverpool going side to side.