Firmino 20/21

[Insidious]

So.

Bobby.

Hasn't been great of late. Was just thinking - he plays so, so many of our games and plays plenty for Brazil.

When we consider our League games, Cup games, European games then the international friendlies, Copa America and so on, he must have something like 250 games in him in the last five years, with relatively minimal breaks.

Could he simply be a bit burnt out and in need of a few weeks out of the side? He has purple patches with us and thus quiet patches too, but could he use a genuine break?

[skyebo]

So.

Bobby.

Hasn't been great of late. Was just thinking - he plays so, so many of our games and plays plenty for Brazil.

When we consider our League games, Cup games, European games then the international friendlies, Copa America and so on, he must have something like 250 games in him in the last five years, with relatively minimal breaks.

Could he simply be a bit burnt out and in need of a few weeks out of the side? He has purple patches with us and thus quiet patches too, but could he use a genuine break?

We have no-one at the club who could do what he does. They could try other ones there but they wouldn't be as effective.

[Nineteenx]

I don't have any issue with Bobby, he does fantastic work, like most things in our team he functions best when our press is functioning as it should be, when it isn't, he gets the good possession between their midfield and defence but is allowed to be crowded out with no-one showing for him

He was slated in the game v Chelsea, but provided the assist for our opener, he was slated last night. but provided an assist for Mo despite being overrun and not very well supported by the midfield through the entire game. He is also a player who isn't as effective when we don't have a midfield playing the switches, as when they are played is often when he moves to support that play and finds more time and space

[Balinkay]

He was drunk v Villa. Hasn't been at his best for a while, but that was comically bad.

And he still managed to get an assist.

[Insidious]

We have no-one at the club who could do what he does. They could try other ones there but they wouldn't be as effective.

For clarity's sake, I love Bobby and the uniqueness of his role is fascinating, but he isn't at his best and hasn't been for a little while - and I think it's quite okay to point that out - he's still one of my first picks on the team sheet.

[Crimson Dynasty]

I don't have any issue with Bobby, he does fantastic work, like most things in our team he functions best when our press is functioning as it should be, when it isn't, he gets the good possession between their midfield and defence but is allowed to be crowded out with no-one showing for him

He was slated in the game v Chelsea, but provided the assist for our opener, he was slated last night. but provided an assist for Mo despite being overrun and not very well supported by the midfield through the entire game. He is also a player who isn't as effective when we don't have a midfield playing the switches, as when they are played is often when he moves to support that play and finds more time and space

You're conveniently overlooking the fact that he had an unacceptably high number of misplaced passes and giveaways to opposition players (and not even of the "trying a fancy flick that simply didn't quite work out" variety") many of which stopped quite a number of our promising attacks dead on their tracks.

At that level of carelessness, a player is actually more of a detriment than a just a disappointment.

Yes, his (one) assist for the Mo goal was great, but how many giveaways did we trade in exchange.
And that's not even counting the fluffed shots and wasted opportunities that he himself didn't convert.

I'm not trying to be hard on him specifically, but after a 7-2 defeat like that - the likes of which the club hasn't suffered in over half a century,.....and to a certifiable relegation fodder team (from last season) - these kinds of hard questions need to be asked.

And it's not even like its out of the blue.
It's been a long time coming and his performance has been worringly consistently below acceptable standards.


It's a fair question to ask if some time on the bench (or not starting games for a bit) might actually serve him better as it has in the past when he was struggling and Klopp took him out of the firing line.

[Steveo]

He was drunk v Villa. Hasn't been at his best for a while, but that was comically bad.

And he still managed to get an assist.

Forgive me BUT if you play Relentlessly in the false 9 - game in - game out you will get assists...? Last season it was 8.. last 3 games it has been 2. It isn’t a disaster BUT if his name wasn’t Firmino and Klopp wasn’t so religiously wedded to the same front line he would have been benched eons ago.

He got an assist last night BUT got in way of at least 2 goals... -1 assist IMO and that’s without mentioning the give away for a goal at the other end.. He was awful from start to finish. Needs some confidence from somewhere.

[Nineteenx]

He was drunk v Villa. Hasn't been at his best for a while, but that was comically bad.

And he still managed to get an assist.

Out of interest and relevant to the midfielder discussions going on, highly relevant, at what point do you think Bobby started 'not being at his best'?

Looking through this

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/match/2019-20/first-team/fixtures-and-results

And given Bobby scored the winners against both Spurs and Wolves, which looking at them were both set up by Henderson, it appears Bobby not being at his best started around the beginning of February, coincidentally (or perhaps not) when changes to the midfield of a team that was flying were unnecessarily made

[Balinkay]

I don't see why I should forgive you, Steveo, what you say makes sense. I don't think he's been terrible generally, so it would take some competition to bench him, but that definitely wouldn't be out of the question like it would be with, say, Mane. He simply has no such competition right now.

@19x

Boah, tough to say. February does sound more or less right. No idea if that's when midfield rotations started. No question we miss Hendo - everyone is bound to do worse when he's out.

[teesred]

I think he needs to sit out a few games, same as Gomez. The whole team needs to refocus after last night but those 2 in particular.
Probably wont happen though as there isnt really any other viable option or alternative.

[teesred]

1 league goal in 18 games for a forward playing in this team is frankly shite.
He should score more goals, gets plenty of opportunities and has proved he can do it so what's changed?
It's been going on a while. Is he past his peak?

[Balinkay]

Could be, he's just turned 29. It happens.

[Insidious]

9 goals and 8 assists was it, last season?

3 goals and 3 assists in the first 6 games - an incredible start. Then it was 6 goals and 5 assists in 32 games - which isn't great - and looks a little worse when you consider 3 of those came in one match against Southampton.

So in the other 31 games he created 2 goals for team-mates - his defensive workload certainly remained high, but that relative lack of goalscoring contribution is surely worthy of some sensible discussion.

If we include internationals he is probably looking at 250-300 games in the last five seasons, which, when you bear his work-rate in mind, is bound to create burnout. Someone mentioned February onwards - he could very well be missing the feeling of fans in a stadium more than some - or it could be both.

Has he become rubbish overnight? No - and I don't think anyone is insinuating as much - but I'd definitely be looking at rotating him for a bit and the fact we had an interest in Werner probably suggests as much too really.

Perhaps Minamino or Jota could get some of his minutes for a spell and get him rested. I don't think taking him out of the side would cost us a shedload of points and he might just be in need of a little refresh.

[Balinkay]

Mane is great through the middle btw.

[skyebo]

Mane is great through the middle btw.

We are lucky to have all 3 forwards here, at the same time.

[ianlfc]

Bobby and our attack wasn't the problem on Sunday night. Mo with 2 , jota and Bobby with an assist.
Scoring 2 away from home would no doubt get us the 3 points in the last few seasons . It was the invisible midfield, awful defence and a 2nd choice goalkeeper that was the problem.

[Steveo]

Quite true although we should have taken far more of the chances we had. It was the middle of the park that killed us in the Midlands Sunday night. Bobby was poor again though. Can’t hide that fact.

[HLOGI]

Bobby has been great but in decline in the last 12 months. We must be clear what we want. Do we want to live on memories or merit. At the moment he does not merit a starting birth or full 90 minutes.

His game is not 20+ a season, it is creativity and work rate. His signature as a false 9 is his touch and how he links up play and defends from the front. This now is almost none existent, he is bullied, terrible touch and loss of possession. Because he is a baller every now and again he will produce something like he did against Chelsea but a sprinkling now and again is not enough.

What has made us boss the last 3-4 years has been the willingness to move on and to improve. There are players in the first season we came fourth who deserve praise for starting out the project but now they wouldn't get a look in this team.

So Bobby must be rested if it is fatigue and if it is that he can no longer improve or at least maintain then it is time to move on. Jota looks hungry and quality. A front 3 of Mane, Salah and Jota will do and Bobby can wrestle his shirt back if he can.

[HLOGI]

Quite true although we should have taken far more of the chances we had. It was the middle of the park that killed us in the Midlands Sunday night.

I concur.

When you analyze a game holistically then it appears differently. But a match is also about moments, If Adrian doesn't make that mistake, Bobby scores 1 of his chances, Mo gets the pen etc. These are moments in a game. So yes the midfield was dour but a goal scored can deflate an opponent.

[CCTV]

Since the start of 2019/20 till today in the PL

Salah 24 goals & 10 assists: 34
Mane 21 goals & 9 assists: 30
Bobby 9 goals & 10 assists: 19
Trent 4 goals & 14 assists: 18
Robbo 3 goals & 13 assists: 16

I'd rather see us change formation tbh than drop Bobby.

[justme]

Firmino should be dropped hes not been worth his place for a while.

[CCTV]

Of those who'd drop Firmino, what 11 and what selection?

[justme]

I wouldnt change the formation.. i would have Minamino in the 11. We arent gonna change from the 4//3/3 line up.

[Kev0909]

I wouldnt change the formation.. i would have Minamino in the 11. We arent gonna change from the 4//3/3 line up.

I'd rather play firminio....

Miniamino isn't the answer to anything- what makes you think that?

which is why we need to sell the likes of origi and some others to get a ST in that can actually challenge him.

For now all we can hope is he picks up form again, i've been onto him a lot and glad others have picked up on it but we sold the only player i'd give a chance to over him who can find the net and actually finish, so you know.

[Nineteenx]

I'd rather play firminio....

Miniamino isn't the answer to anything- what makes you think that?

which is why we need to sell the likes of origi and some others to get a ST in that can actually challenge him.

For now all we can hope is he picks up form again.

Minamino is definitely not any sort of replacement for Bobby, he's not even a false No9, Jurgen's trying to make him one, without very much joy as he's desperately struggling with his lack of height and physicality in the Premier League trying to play in there, the lad played mostly at RFWD at Salzburg, they didn't have a false 9 at all, they had Halaand through the centre

[justme]

I just think Minimino is more mobile right now and is likely to turn and run forward. Firmino basically plays with his back to goal most of the time..
When teams press us we need some forward that can turn the attack. I don t have issues with Firmino playing if we decide to have a deep line in midfield and defence.

[Nineteenx]

I just think Minimino is more mobile right now and is likely to turn and run forward. Firmino basically plays with his back to goal most of the time..
When teams press us we need some forward that can turn the attack. I don t have issues with Firmino playing if we decide to have a deep line in midfield and defence.

Villa didn't press us in the sense we press teams, they set up to congest midfield, nick it off us in midfield and release midfielders either side or in behind Fabinho knowing we'd HAVE to try and play through the area they congested because we didn't have a single midfielder in the line up capable of playing the switch balls that completely disarm opposition who set up to try and do that.

It was exactly the same tactic so many sides profited from adopting against us against the same midfield who aren't as good in the press and are severely lacking in distribution just over half way through the 2018-2019 season, exact;y the same

Bobby benefits immensely from the switches and better distribution, they are very important to him playing at his best, as they are to Mane, Mo and both our full backs

[reddownunder]

Just found the net for Brazil. Hopefully this gives him the confidence boost that he needs in front of goal

[reddownunder]

Just found the net for Brazil. Hopefully this gives him the confidence boost that he needs in front of goal

He comes off after 70 minutes after having bagged a second

[Steveo]

The perfect tonic... Get in Bobby..

[ianlfc]

I've just looked, his and the other Brazilians next game is on Wednesday morning at 1am against Peru then our game is the following Saturday against Everton at 12.30 kick off.
Richardson was on the bench for Brazil so he's not injured.

[Kev0909]

Just found the net for Brazil. Hopefully this gives him the confidence boost that he needs in front of goal

against farmers but yes a goal is a goal i guess

[dicko1969]

Played as a true number 9 striker.

[Nineteenx]

against farmers but yes a goal is a goal i guess

Brazil were playing a team from the French league?

[dicko1969]

Bolivia
That's near Bordeaux

[Nineteenx]

Bolivia
That's near Bordeaux

:D That last post was solely for your benefit Dicko and you didn't disappoint

[scientificred]

:D That last post was solely for your benefit Dicko and you didn't disappoint

Did you mean peasants?
Still an honourable trade in France (and in my opinion too) seeing as they managed to avoid the industrial revolution

[justincredible]

Over to you Kev....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54762653

[Balinkay]

Kev after someone mentions Bobby:

https://i.imgur.com/sbofndi.gif

[Nineteenx]

1 goal and 2 assists so far

[Kev0909]

Over to you Kev....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54762653

I think it's pretty obvious really

#givefirminoarest

#firmino'slifematters

[Kev0909]

Interesting thought

Thiago is the lad to glue the play together not firmino = jota >firmino

Firmino isn't really doing it atm anyway

[Balinkay]

Yes, that's the whole idea of bringing in Thiago - he can link up play and come up with some enabling magic - as a bonus it'll not be down to only Bobby to do so from the false 9 position all the time.

Think Thiago will generally make everyone on the team's life easier.

[Kev0909]

Yes, that's the whole idea of bringing in Thiago - he can link up play and come up with some enabling magic - as a bonus it'll not be down to only Bobby to do so from the false 9 position all the time.

Think Thiago will generally make everyone on the team's life easier.

Or that means we can actually get a striker who scores goals or play someone else there like Jota

[Balinkay]

Provided there's enough creativity and space created from the middle of the park and it's not down to Bobby to essentially be the system, we could see if he starts scoring more. If he doesn't and doesn't compensate with other attributes we can't really get from anywhere else, sure - we could look for a more goal oriented CF.

I somehow doubt that's how things will pan out though.

[Nineteenx]

Yes, that's the whole idea of bringing in Thiago - he can link up play and come up with some enabling magic - as a bonus it'll not be down to only Bobby to do so from the false 9 position all the time.

Think Thiago will generally make everyone on the team's life easier.

He'll likely create more chances for Mo, Mane and Bobby and it will allow them to add to their movement

[skyebo]

Or that means we can actually get a striker who scores goals or play someone else there like Jota

It's only the strikers who get the goals anyway, especially Mane and Salah.

[Nineteenx]

Pretty sure we have this debate every year, then Bobby scores a few crucial winners and everyone pipes down

[Kev0909]

Pretty sure we have this debate every year, then Bobby scores a few crucial winners and everyone pipes down

You mean like Jota has been doing off the bench because bobby can't hit a barn door?

Like it or not, sooner or later it'll cost us

[skyebo]

Klopp will be aware that Firmino isn't scoring many. I'm sure he must be contributing to the team otherwise he would have been dropped. He has never scored as many as Salah and Mane anyway.

[Kev0909]

Klopp will be aware that Firmino isn't scoring many. I'm sure he must be contributing to the team otherwise he would have been dropped. He has never scored as many as Salah and Mane anyway.

Deluded, you can tell when he was contributing to the team, at the moment it's like playing with 10 men

he needs a rest for his own good

Imagine if this team didn't have salah or mane, firmino wouldn't get into other teams first 11 around us

They constantly bail him out

he's not assisting he's losing the ball all the time he's not doing anything oh sorry he did pass it forward once for a assist a few games ago and scored into a empty net from 2 yards and i've seen 10 year old's shoot better and with more power

[Nineteenx]

You mean like Jota has been doing off the bench

And long may that continue, it's always good to have a player doing something a little different to what defenders with tired legs have worn out trying to defend for 70 minutes who can come off the bench and grab a goal.

It can become a huge psychological advantage too if they do it enough

[skyebo]

Deluded, you can tell when he was contributing to the team, at the moment it's like playing with 10 men

he needs a rest for his own good

Imagine if this team didn't have salah or mane, firmino wouldn't get into other teams first 11 around us

They constantly bail him out

he's not assisting he's losing the ball all the time he's not doing anything oh sorry he did pass it forward once for a assist a few games ago and scored into a empty net from 2 yards and i've seen 10 year old's shoot better and with more power

I'm not interested whether he'd get into other clubs first team or not. He plays for us at the moment.

[Kev0909]

I'm not interested whether he'd get into other clubs first team or not. He plays for us at the moment.

You sure?

I'm sure he's playing for the opposition half the time, can't really tell

[skyebo]

You sure?

I'm sure he's playing for the opposition half the time, can't really tell

If it's bothering you that much, have a word with Klopp.

[Balinkay]

You sure?

I'm sure he's playing for the opposition half the time, can't really tell

Not really surprising - plenty you don't seem to see on a football pitch. :p

But jokes aside - he has looked out of sorts. For all the stick I give Taki, Bobby's looked almost as bad in most games this season, strangely bar that one game where he played more as an attacking midfielder and was excellent.

Eventually Klopp will drop him for a meaningful game - then we'll see how we perform without him.

[Kev0909]

If it's bothering you that much, have a word with Klopp.

He's very stubborn otherwise he'd of been dropped a while ago

I'm not sure why he can't have a break and hopefully come back after a bit back to his oldself, but we've not seen him anywhere near his best for far to long..

Something needs to change

Jota has done more than enough in my eyes to prove he can start, he can play there, he works hard, he can assist and he can score- what's the issue? how is it possible firmino is STILL starting over him in his form? Firmino needs a rest and sort himself out

Jota's previous stats aren't exactly amazing, but he has the players around him now, and Klopp managing him.

[Nineteenx]

Jota has done more than enough in my eyes to prove he can start, he can play there, he works hard, he can assist and he can score- what's the issue? how is it possible firmino is STILL starting over him in his form?

We've got as far as we have through Jurgen keeping incredible consistency of selection and system for 3 seasons running, I've seen more than enough already this season with him breaking that habit and moving players position and relationships and interactions that have been absolutely sensational for us not functioning anywhere near their best or ceasing to function entirely.

So it isn't as straight forward as bringing him in for Bobby, because when he has featured he hasn't come on as false 9, he's played Mane's position, which he doesn't play as well as Mane, so to bring him in Jurgen's most likely moving Mane and Salah and breaking their respective relationships and interactions with Robbo and Trent, so it is a risk, because disturbing some relationships can affect every other player on the pitch

[Kev0909]

Now you gotta believe me,
Now you gotta believe,
Now you gotta believe me,
Jota's better than firminooooo

#Prayforbobby

[Balinkay]

Will we though? Will we really? Considering he didn't play in the same role? :D

I think you're all more likely to believe me, who's been advocating for Mane to go through the middle and link up play more, should Bobby eventually get his rest.

[Kev0909]

Bobby didn't do to bad when he came on some good interplay, but on the other hand one ball he really messed up to control and could of been in, and gave the ball away twice that nearly ended up with them scoring.

Not sure what's up with him, is it physical? does he need to see someone about his head?

After tonight he's probably got PTSD after watching Jota

[Balinkay]

I mean he should defo be worried. If our interplay doesn't suffer without him and make us toothless against teams not really defenisvely up to it (like Atalanta were today), he's not got much reason to be on the pitch.

I'm guessing some rest would do him good. But he might not get it, considering Jota limped off. Hope it's nothing bad.

[Nineteenx]

Bobby didn't do to bad when he came on some good interplay, but on the other hand one ball he really messed up to control and could of been in, and gave the ball away twice that nearly ended up with them scoring.

Not sure what's up with him, is it physical? does he need to see someone about his head?

After tonight he's probably got PTSD after watching Jota

Tonight we played with a very definite shift of all 3 forwards making runs in behind, throughout Bobby's time with us we have almost always used him deeper, linking play getting hold of the ball, playing as an extra midfielder a lot of the time when we lose the ball, generally doing all the hard graft to support Mane and Mo being able to play constantly on the shoulder of the last defenders

With Thiago in midfield playing the passes too, I think that will be our front 3 for the forseeable, another midfielder who can pass the ball, never mind one who can pass it like Thiago to find those runs. It's a big adjustment for Bobby, he plays as a proper 9 for Brazil quite a lot and scores more, if we're going to set up like that Bobby has to adjust to playing as an out and out forward and making those runs in behind too

[Kev0909]

I don't think he's fast enough but time will tell

maybe watching jota last night will make him up his game, fingers crossed

[Balinkay]

Tbf I don't think Jota's all that pacy either, though ti might be just his nonchalace that makes it look that way.

[Kev0909]

Tbf I don't think Jota's all that pacy either, though ti might be just his nonchalace that makes it look that way.

He's no usain bolt but didn't you see his goals last night? certainly has some pace, had the beating of them defenders, firmino wouldn't be able to do that.

[Balinkay]

Oh yeah, defo - just not on the same level as Manè or Salah.

[Steveo]

Tbf I don't think Jota's all that pacy either, though ti might be just his nonchalace that makes it look that way.

You're a defender aren't you Bali. It seems clear from everything you say about the game - creativity is not your strong point - I am just assuming here.. But feels like that.

"I don't think Jota's all that pacy". hmm

[Balinkay]

I used to play as a defender in the thournaments we entered - usually between five and nine a side. Was somewhat versatile though - have been used on the wing, in DM and even as a false nine on occasion.

My preferred positions are still as a ball carrying defender with an onus on long passing or as a DM, screening in front of the defence and thundering them in from range. Must be said that I'm a pretty small and physically weak guy, so I have to have a bigger stronger defender next to me though. Where did you used to / do you play?


I don't see how me not thinking Jota is particularly quick has anything to do with how creative I am / used to be on a pitch. David Silva's pretty slow but was still one of the most creative players the PL has ever seen. Not to mention all the registas of the near past.


Edit: My overall view on football is that it should be practiced efficiently and scientifically. Don't particularly like unnecessary showboating or a heavy onus on pure entertainment.

[skyebo]

I used to play as a defender in the thournaments we entered - usually between five and nine a side. Was somewhat versatile though - have been used on the wing, in DM and even as a false nine on occasion.

My preferred positions are still as a ball carrying defender with an onus on long passing or as a DM, screening in front of the defence and thundering them in from range. Must be said that I'm a pretty small and physically weak guy, so I have to have a bigger stronger defender next to me though. Where did you used to / do you play?


I don't see how me not thinking Jota is particularly quick has anything to do with how creative I am / used to be on a pitch. David Silva's pretty slow but was still one of the most creative players the PL has ever seen. Not to mention all the registas of the near past.


Edit: My overall view on football is that it should be practiced efficiently and scientifically. Don't particularly like unnecessary showboating or a heavy onus on pure entertainment.

Playing football with my mates after school was my level. Never good enough for any competitive leagues.

[Balinkay]

Playing football with my mates after school was my level. Never good enough for any competitive leagues.

Oh, me neither - we represented our school in tournaments and have played in some amateur ones with friends, but nothing more than that!

Best player I've ever played with at school is now a starting CB in the Dutch second division, so that should tell you something. :D

[skyebo]

Oh, me neither - we represented our school in tournaments and have played in some amateur ones with friends, but nothing more than that!

Best player I've ever played with at school is now a starting CB in the Dutch second division, so that should tell you something. :D

lol

[Steveo]

I used to play as a defender in the thournaments we entered - usually between five and nine a side. Was somewhat versatile though - have been used on the wing, in DM and even as a false nine on occasion.

My preferred positions are still as a ball carrying defender with an onus on long passing or as a DM, screening in front of the defence and thundering them in from range. Must be said that I'm a pretty small and physically weak guy, so I have to have a bigger stronger defender next to me though. Where did you used to / do you play?


I don't see how me not thinking Jota is particularly quick has anything to do with how creative I am / used to be on a pitch. David Silva's pretty slow but was still one of the most creative players the PL has ever seen. Not to mention all the registas of the near past.


Edit: My overall view on football is that it should be practiced efficiently and scientifically. Don't particularly like unnecessary showboating or a heavy onus on pure entertainment.

1. I wouldn't expect you to.

2. Our views on football are polar opposites. Also playing efficiently isn't the only option out side of unnecessary showboating..

I used to be an out and out striker - played a lot on both wings too - nowadays play a bit deeper but only because the legs have gone.


:frown:

[Balinkay]

Well of course you're going to be nice and cryptic after making an absurd claim. :D No way to weasel your way out of making a dick of yourself again otherwise. Is anyone surprised at this point?

Do you think he's as quick as Salah or Manè?

[Balinkay]

Ah, maybe the word "quick" is the sticking point here. I mean in terms of pace, not in terms of speed of thought or ball control or ability to move the ball on quickly. He looks... at least decent at those - too early to judge.

[Steveo]

Well of course you're going to be nice and cryptic after making an absurd claim. :D No way to weasel your way out of making a dick of yourself again otherwise. Is anyone surprised at this point?

Do you think he's as quick as Salah or Manè?

Nothing cryptic at all Bali - just highlighting your lack of vision and understanding. Goes with the territory of those who favour the scientific approach to the game over creativity.

If you can't see that Jota has plenty of pace - and need some numbers to reveal it - then I guess it just proves my assessment above.

[Balinkay]

He's no usain bolt but didn't you see his goals last night? certainly has some pace, had the beating of them defenders, firmino wouldn't be able to do that.


Oh yeah, defo - just not on the same level as Manè or Salah.

Yeah, Steveo, reading is for chumps. :D It's okay, I'm sure you'll get the hang of it some day.

I can't find the stats on his acceleration and top speed. FM seems to consider him slower than both Manè and Salah. FIFA too, although that's hardly a good measure. :D

[Steveo]

Can't help you I'm afraid Bali - just going to have to go out and run along side all 3 of them to find out for yourself.. :D

[Balinkay]

Aha - so basically you were talking horseshite again and have no way to back it up. To boot, you forgot how to read people's posts. Sound that. :D

[Steveo]

Aha - so basically you were talking horseshite again and have no way to back it up. To boot, you forgot how to read people's posts. Sound that. :D

Chill out Bali - go have a 4 knuckle shuffle or something. The only person chatting shite - as per usual - is the daft wanna be German Bulgar who thinks he understands English but clearly doesn't get the nuance all the time.

[justme]

Whats a German bulgar??


The Bulgars were Turkic semi-nomadic warrior tribes that flourished in the Pontic–Caspian steppe and the Volga region during the 7th century

[Steveo]

They like Yoghurt and harvest roses

[Balinkay]

Aand he starts dogwhistling about where I'm from again. :D Because of course he does. You're like a broke record at this point.

Step 1: Forget how to read and misinterpret something
Step 2: Make snide remark
Step 3: Realise you've backed yourself into a corner and start spouting vague shite
Step 4: Get called up, bring up where the other person (usually me) is from in a lousy ad hominem
Step 5: "No no, I'm not racist, I love the Balkans" - yeah, my arse

You're like a senile somewhat xenophobic / racist (wouldn't know what the correct term is) broken record.

[Balinkay]

Whats a German bulgar??


The Bulgars were Turkic semi-nomadic warrior tribes that flourished in the Pontic–Caspian steppe and the Volga region during the 7th century

Steveo's just being his usual casually racist / xebophobic self towards me. He's trying to wind me up by purposely not using the proper demonym form my country.

[justme]

Oh sorry. i had no idea it was meant in that sense

[Steveo]

Oh poor Bali.

[Balinkay]

@justme

Nono, I don't consider it a bad word or something, that's just what he does every time he forgets how to read.

[justme]

Ok

[Balinkay]

Oh poor Bali.

I could teach you to read, Steveo, though be warned, I charge by the hour. :D

Maybe I'll even throw in an extra lesson on how to say "Ah, I see what you meant now, my bad".

[Kev0909]

Oh poor Bali.

:lol::lol::lol:

Didn't realise you was in love with Corbyn stevo and Bali was from israel

[Steveo]

Steveo's just being his usual casually racist / xebophobic self towards me. He's trying to wind me up by purposely not using the proper demonym form my country.

Says the Bulgar - from the land who covered themselves in glory during between 1941 and 1944.

Anyone who knows me will vouch for me being completely the opposite of "racist / xebophobic" - and you have made many overtly racist comments on here before - as many well know. trying to suggest such a thing about me simply because I jokingly mentioned your nationality just highlights your own insecurity. Wow you don't like your heritage do you.. Daddy issues?

The point about you being a wannabe German Bulgar is valid 9 thought is was funny ) too - as I cannot find any reason outside of language to justify the sheer amount of times you misunderstand/misconstrue what I say.

.

[Steveo]

:lol::lol::lol:

Didn't realise you was in love with Corbyn stevo and Bali was from israel

Do love Corbyn.. Mercilessly destroyed by the media.

[Kev0909]

Do love Corbyn.. Mercilessly destroyed by the media.

Explains it!

[Balinkay]

Says the Bulgar - from the land who covered themselves in glory during between 1941 and 1944.

Anyone who knows me will vouch for me being completely the opposite of "racist / xebophobic" - and you have made many overtly racist comments on here before - as many well know. trying to suggest such a thing about me simply because I jokingly mentioned your nationality just highlights your own insecurity. Wow you don't like your heritage do you.. Daddy issues?

The point about you being a wannabe German Bulgar is valid 9 thought is was funny ) too - as I cannot find any reason outside of language to justify the sheer amount of times you misunderstand/misconstrue what I say.

.

One more for the bingo: "No no, I'm not xenophobic, I swear!!". Maybe you're not, Steveo, but you do a damn fine job of hiding it when arguing with me. Funnily enough it's only when you misread something and then start spouting horseshite. Funny that. Real funny.

And you continue to not use the proper demonym. Wonder why that is?

Now you bring into play the fact we joined the Axis for WW2 because... why? (Be honest here, you had to google that, didn't you?) For what reason exactly? So you're saying "No, I'm just being playful here, not bringing your heritage into the debate for any nefarious reason, just being funny. I don't judge people by where they happen to have been born or the colour of their skin. Btw, Bali's from an evil country. Do you feel ashamed for being from evil stock?? Do you??? Daddy issues?". Way to not sound xenophobic. :D

I don't misunderstand what you say, Steveo - you just often spout nonsense that you feel forced to defend afterwards because... it would make you feel like less of a man if you didn't? I don't know, that's just a wild guess. When I'm not sure what you mean, I ask - but this time, as usual when you talk nonsense, you don't reply and just carry on being a snide dogwhistling xenophobic prick.

[Steveo]

Oooh we are in a spin aren't we... Don't hate yourself Bali - we can't help who we are. I have told you this before. I do sense a real conflict within you. Maybe it is trying to march to that Teutonic drum..? Who knows.. but just let it go man/boy/girl or all 3.

You can call me a prick - senile - racist - Xenophobic.. Hurl them all buddy. Whatever helps you to calm down..

[Balinkay]

Ay ay ay, Steveo. I'm not mad at you... I'm not even disappointed. You've set the bar for yourself so extremely low that it's hard to feel anything besides amusement at this point. Way back when I though you might be capable of an actual conversation I'd get frustrated since I enjoy talking to people more knowledgeable than me on a subject I find interesting, but it seems I had too high hopes for you.

I just feel kind of bad for the forum since it has to subject itself to your feeble attempts at provocation, while you're trying to deflect from your inability to read what people write. Are you ready to admit you failed to read how I replied to Kev's justifiable question as to why I'd think Jota was slow? Probably not, by the looks of things.

My my - "you sense conflict" - starting to sound like an astrologist now! Makes some sense though - the drivel you've spewed here is about as meaningful as the nonsense they spout.

[Balinkay]

and you have made many overtly racist comments on here before - as many well know.

Citation needed btw.

[Steveo]

Manuel... :D


https://youtu.be/H-oH-TELcLE

I do feel a bit sorry for you Bali - that's why I try to ignore your often state the bleeding obvious posts - but when you suggest something which seems unfathomable like - "I don't think Jota's all that pacy either" I feel compelled to ask how you arrive at that conclusion. Not sure why it has enraged you so..

[Balinkay]

Typical Steveo - make a bold claim and then just don't back it up.

I'm not even saying I've not said something overtly racist btw - I have 15k posts on here - don't remember each and every one. So please, provide some evidence for your pretty ugly claim.

[Kev0909]

Never a dull day on here

P.S Jota is the way forward get with the times haters

[Balinkay]

Ah, just seen your sneaky edit, Steveo - you didn't ask - you (wrongly) asserted what I meant in a snide and childish manner and when I explained that better you went on one of your xenophobic tangents. Because you don't know how to read apparently.

Still waiting for you to produce one of my overtly racists posts btw. Would love to discuss and clarify what I meant if necessary. Take your time.

[Steveo]

Ah, just seen your sneaky edit, Steveo - you didn't ask - you (wrongly) asserted what I meant in a snide and childish manner and when I explained that better you went on one of your xenophobic tangents. Because you don't know how to read apparently.

Still waiting for you to produce one of my overtly racists posts btw. Would love to discuss and clarify what I meant if necessary. Take your time.

Oh it was a sneaky edit.. my oh my - what an underhanded reprobate I am.. :D


You once made a clear anti serb reference when asking why we didn't use our own beautiful English word instead of a "Silly Serbian" one - And I pulled you up on it too..

Can you explain to my ignorant self what is Xenophobic or racist about the words 'German' and 'Bulgar' and how the context I used made them so..?

[Balinkay]

Oh it was a sneaky edit.. my oh my - what an underhanded reprobate I am.. :D


You once made a clear anti serb reference when asking why we didn't use our own beautiful English word instead of a "Silly Serbian" one - And I pulled you up on it too..

Can you explain to my ignorant self what is Xenophobic or racist about the words 'German' and 'Bulgar' and how the context I used made them so..?

You got a quote for the bolded bit? And quite a few of them? Since, you know, you said I'd made "many" such comments. One isn't many, now is it?

But also I'd need to look at it in context, since I have no idea what post you're talking about and it's entirely possible you're just making it up. I do enjoy banter between countries and jokes about national stereotypes - that's for sure, so I'm sure I've jested plenty about it. The thing here is - you're not really joking. You're dog whistling and throwing ad hominem. You might enjoy the taste and smell of your own feces, but I don't, which is why I called you up on it.

There's nothing xenophobic about either word in and of itself. Both really nice terms that describe pretty different things. Just like there's nothing inherently racist about the word slope or chink. It's how you use them. But you know this all too well, don't you, you old dog whistler, you? :D Every time you back yourself into a corner defending an indefensible position because you don't seem capable of reading other people's posts, you resort to bringing where I'm from into the conversation. I guess the subtext being that I can't possibly speak your oh-so-complicated language well enough to comprehend you cryptic senile ramblings. It's transparent and in poor taste.

And I take particular issue with the word Bulgar because it doesn't describe a person from Bulgaria. It describes something else. But you know that, since, you know, English is your first language apparently.

And "German Bulgar"... really? Then insinuating I have some identity crisis with the "Teutonic drum"? Really? How low can you stoop? Is ad hominem the only thing you know? It's pure and utter filth and has no place on a forum like this - go clog up the comments section of a youtube video.

Edit: Added clarification.

[ianlfc]

[QUOTE=Kev0909;2659372]Never a dull day on here

QUOTE]

I remember a time you got called a cunt, At least you knew where you stood 😆😆

[Steveo]

You got a quote for the bolded bit? And quite a few of them? Since, you know, you said I'd made "many" such comments. One isn't many, now is it?

But also I'd need to look at it in context, since I have no idea what post you're talking about and it's entirely possible you're just making it up. I do enjoy banter between countries and jokes about national stereotypes - that's for sure, so I'm sure I've jested plenty about it. The thing here is - you're not really joking. You're dog whistling and throwing ad hominem. You might enjoy the taste and smell of your own feces, but I don't, which is why I called you up on it.

There's nothing xenophobic about either word in and of itself. Both really nice terms that describe pretty different things. Just like there's nothing inherently racist about the word slope or chink. It's how you use them. But you know this all too well, don't you, you old dog whistler, you? :D Every time you back yourself into a corner defending an indefensible position because you don't seem capable of reading other people's posts, you resort to bringing where I'm from into the conversation. I guess the subtext being that I can't possibly speak your oh-so-complicated language well enough to comprehend you cryptic senile ramblings. It's transparent and in poor taste.

And I take particular issue with the word Bulgar because it doesn't describe a person from Bulgaria. It describes something else. But you know that, since, you know, English is your first language apparently.

And "German Bulgar"... really? Then insinuating I have some identity crisis with the "Teutonic drum"? Really? How low can you stoop? Is ad hominem the only thing you know? It's pure and utter filth and has no place on a forum like this - go clog up the comments section of a youtube video.

Edit: Added clarification.

What in the everlasting fuck are you on about? Bulgar is a name for a group of people who very much have assimilated into Bulgaria AS YOU WELL KNOW. So sit down and behave. it is a group of people and was not meant in a derogatory context at all - find them - go ed.

Next you will be telling me that calling me an Anglo Saxon is racist or Xenophobic too?

You can claim whatever the hell you like buster - but it doesn't make it so. So do us all a favour and STFU - you boring turd

[Balinkay]

Like I said - the words are fine on their own - it's how you use them. You're choosing to be a dog whistling covert mud slinging prick with them. About what we've come to expect really.

[Steveo]

Yawn.... Do us all a favour

[Balinkay]

Agreed - whatever keeps you from spouting your senile drivel.

[LFC vs PFC]

Like I said - the words are fine on their own - it's how you use them. You're choosing to be a dog whistling covert mud slinging prick with them. About what we've come to expect really.

...and he smells of elderberries.

[Steveo]

For the uninitiated..


https://youtu.be/cAy4zULKFDU

[Kev0909]

[QUOTE=Kev0909;2659372]Never a dull day on here

QUOTE]

I remember a time you got called a cunt, At least you knew where you stood 😆😆

The new thing is angry drunk :lol::lol::lol:

[Steveo]

Aka Lewis.. Scored against us for The Seagulls a while back too..

See... not senile yet - or Diz-leg-sick.
I can reed and evryfin..

:lol::lol::lol:

I guess in some places 47 means you have no teeth. Get married at 11... oh my aching bones :D :D

[justincredible]

[QUOTE=ianlfc;2659388]

The new thing is angry drunk :lol::lol::lol:

Is there any other?

[Balinkay]

Aka Lewis.. Scored against us for The Seagulls a while back too..

See... not senile yet - or Diz-leg-sick.
I can reed and evryfin..

:lol::lol::lol:

I guess in some places 47 means you have no teeth. Get married at 11... oh my aching bones :D :D

Be honest, Steveo - is the issue you can't get it up anymore and you need to feel like a man by scoring online points? There's pills for that, mate - we don't judge.

As for your inability to read - there's plenty of excellent English textbooks out there. Either that or get some grasses. Vision fades rather quickly.

[Kev0909]

Can we just be happy that skrtel is beating utd?

Or do I need to get some alcohol and turn into angry drunk??

[Steveo]

Be honest, Steveo - is the issue you can't get it up anymore and you need to feel like a man by scoring online points? There's pills for that, mate - we don't judge.

As for your inability to read - there's plenty of excellent English textbooks out there. Either that or get some grasses. Vision fades rather quickly.

No need to have a pop at the Chinese... :D

[Balinkay]

No need to have a pop at the Chinese... :D

Oh no, mate, you've got a monopoly on that sort of thing.

Got any of my racist posts to quote by the way? We can talk about this sort of thing? Looks like spouting senile drivel online helps you... compensate for whatever shortcomings in you personal life.

[Steveo]

Aw bless...

[justme]

Can't you take this to PM or even twitter?? this is boring now

[Balinkay]

Aw bless...

I-is that the start some sort of incantation you think will help you use the "search" function? I have some bad news, mate - technology has moved on - there's a button in the forum. You can press on it. With your mouse. You should try it. Maybe you can find some racist posts we can talk about. Like I said - 15k, I'd even be personally interested to talk about that!


Can't you take this to PM or even twitter?? this is boring now

You can always just put us on ignore. Won't be missing much on football from Steveo - regarding me you can make up your own mind.

[justme]

If i havent ignored Kev. you can make up your mind up,on how i dont ignore people.. I just find theres no need for it on football chat

[Nineteenx]

Be honest, Steveo - is the issue you can't get it up anymore and you need to feel like a man by scoring online points? There's pills for that, mate - we don't judge.

As for your inability to read - there's plenty of excellent English textbooks out there. Either that or get some grasses. Vision fades rather quickly.

Ask him for his address and send him some Numan ;)

[Steveo]

Ask him for his address and send him some Numan ;)
Haha... Brilliant..

[Balinkay]

Sorry, I don't get that reference. Besides, physical confrontation over a petty online dispute? Poor form, 19. :D

[Nineteenx]

Sorry, I don't get that reference. Besides, physical confrontation over a petty online dispute? Poor form, 19. :D

Numan is a product for erectile disfunction that is frequently advertised on the TV in the UK Bali

[Balinkay]

Numan is a product for erectile disfunction that is frequently advertised on the TV in the UK Bali

Ah, cheers! Didn't know that and a quick google search didn't help either.

Suspect I might need it some day, then I'll do some more research. Happily it's not come to that yet. :D

[redebreck]

What's this thread about?

[dicko1969]

Anyone got stats on kenny Dalglish 4 seasons from 1982 to 1986

[skyebo]

Anyone got stats on kenny Dalglish 4 seasons from 1982 to 1986

81-82 62 Apps 22 Goals
82-83 58 Apps 20 Goals
83-84 51 Apps 12 Goals
84-85 53 Apps 6 Goals
85-86 31 Apps 7 Goals

[dicko1969]

Scores

[Insidious]

Numan is a product for erectile disfunction that is frequently advertised on the TV in the UK Bali

I have had 2 experiences with those herbal alternatives to Viagra that you get out a machine. One incident was essentially for a dare, one experience was a "sod it, why not" - results were different for both hilarious and not exactly how I expected things to work in terms of what they did.

Unlikely to repeat.

[Steveo]

Stiff legs... unable to Ben Dover and wobbly Willy..?

[ianlfc]

Good to see Bobby scoring again.

[Insidious]

Stiff legs... unable to Ben Dover and wobbly Willy..?

Hahahahahaha can you imagine :lol:

[Steveo]

Good to see Bobby scoring again.

It is indeed. The geezer is world class - form comes and goes - class doesn’t.


Hahahahahaha can you imagine :lol:

Absolutely.. :D

[Kev0909]

It is indeed. The geezer is world class - form comes and goes - class doesn’t.



Absolutely.. :D

Yes world class now he's scored against the mighty Venezuela!!!!!

"world class" is used far to often, firmino is not world class.

Jesus christ

Half the world seems to be "world class" especially if they play for liverpool.

wasn't really hard to miss either, he would for us mind

Lewandowski
Ronaldo
Messi

are world class, firmino is nowhere near em.

[miller0863]

Taki Minanino scored the only goal in Japan’s 1-0 victory over Panama proving his World Class credentials yet again

[teesred]

Gary Neville said last week that Citys goal was world class from Jesus. Does that mean hes world class or just the goal? I'm puzzled. World class? What the eff does it even mean?

[ianlfc]

Yes world class now he's scored against the mighty Venezuela!!!!!

"world class" is used far to often, firmino is not world class.

Jesus christ

Half the world seems to be "world class" especially if they play for liverpool.

wasn't really hard to miss either, he would for us mind

Lewandowski
Ronaldo
Messi

are world class, firmino is nowhere near em.

You need a girlfriend 😃😃

[Steveo]

I agree World class is used far too often and also it is very ambiguous.

For me it means a player that is in a select group ( 2 maybe 3 ) who stand out for what they do on the world stage at any given time.

When on form Bobby is a truly fantastic player - he isn’t a world class striker - but at what he does - I can’t think of anyone better.

[Kev0909]

Taki Minanino scored the only goal in Japan’s 1-0 victory over Panama proving his World Class credentials yet again

Yes he must be

I can't wait for us to re-sign World class lovren in January

@Stevo harry kane? there's better strikers just in EPL

[reddownunder]

There are a few genuine world class players in the squad. Van Dijk, Salah, Mane and Alisson fit that category. I think you could make an argument for Robertson and Trent too. Firmino? Nah. He's good but not world class.

[ianlfc]

He's the current number 9 for both Liverpool and Brazil. So he's not to bad.

[Steveo]

Yes he must be

I can't wait for us to re-sign World class lovren in January

@Stevo harry kane? there's better strikers just in EPL

Kane is a far better striker - as I said Bobby is no way a world class striker. But don’t see many as good as him at that false 9 role. Certainly not with the work rate and incredible link up play. But might be wrong

[Kev0909]

He's the current number 9 for both Liverpool and Brazil. So he's not to bad.

Not being funny but who else can challenge him?

If jesus and richarlinson starts aswell?

Not like they've got tons of options young lad from real madrid, and someone playing in the brazilian league.

Can't see them doing great in the future, they're playing noone in WCQ uruguay next will probably be the biggest test well they've got Argentina later on too

I for one not drooling over a 1-0 win v venezuela

Pretty sure the world cup winner will be from Europe.

[ianlfc]

Not being funny but who else can challenge him?

If jesus and richarlinson starts aswell?

Not like they've got tons of options young lad from real madrid, and someone playing in the brazilian league.

Can't see them doing great in the future, they're playing noone in WCQ uruguay next will probably be the biggest test well they've got Argentina later on too

I for one not drooling over a 1-0 win v venezuela

Pretty sure the world cup winner will be from Europe.

Fuck sake mate ,cheer up. Stop being so negative .

[Kev0909]

Fuck sake mate ,cheer up. Stop being so negative .

How's that negative? it's just the facts/truth

I couldn't care less about brazil

Fuck all these games, it's fucked us over already, no more injury's or corona'd players then i'll be happy that's all i care about

Ya know what, fine firmino is best in the world and brazil have so many options yet he's still #1 best player!!!!!!! they're easily going to win the world cup in 2022 what a stunning goal the other night against such a good team!!!! fantastic play

Happy now?

[teesred]

Kev+negative=Kevative.

[miller0863]

Like that, stop being so “kevative”.

Aye, could be a keeper that.

[ianlfc]

Kev+negative=Kevative.

I've a feeling that will get used once or twice this season.

[ianlfc]

That's more like it from him. And a great finish.

[Kev0909]

Bobby's back today shame he can't hit a barn door with his feet though, could of had at least 3

but doesn't matter, we won and his overall game was quality first touch/passing was the bobby of old

what is good is when we waste all these chances the game tends be over with anyway.

[miller0863]

13 of our 23 attempts were on target today and that doesn’t include the 3 that hit the woodwork
That’s a decent ratio.

[Insidious]

13 of our 23 attempts were on target today and that doesn’t include the 3 that hit the woodwork
That’s a decent ratio.

Encouraging that, in advance of Brighton/Wolves/Fulham.

By the time we have those League matches under our belt we hopefully have one or two of our lads back.

This season will be a grind but our lads are responding to the challenges this far.

[ianlfc]

I thought he was on it tonight when he came on. Some lovely touches and runs into dangerous areas. Though he should eluted that one on one with the keeper.
Hopefully, fingers crossed Bobby's back.

[CCTV]

Did well off the bench. Funny upfront tonight overall from us.

[Kev0909]

I thought he was on it tonight when he came on. Some lovely touches and runs into dangerous areas. Though he should eluted that one on one with the keeper.
Hopefully, fingers crossed Bobby's back.

maybe it's the kick up the arse he needed

[Nineteenx]

I thought he was on it tonight when he came on. Some lovely touches and runs into dangerous areas. Though he should eluted that one on one with the keeper.
Hopefully, fingers crossed Bobby's back.

We notably instantly had a lot more control of the game when he came on too, I go on and on and on about it, but we need to remember what won us a Champions League and Premier League, there are lots of highly developed relationships and interactions that have been built up over 3 and a half seasons, and making certain changes disrupts that and stops them functioning and if you fuck about with them enough, they don't function to the levels they used to when you put the pieces back in the same place.

We are doing really well, and this period is a huge test as most other top 6 sides have squads with more cover for each position and more experience and a big part of our success has been achieved through continuity of formation and selection and how the relationships between players have developed and been finely tuned through doing that. A lot of people here thinks it's fantasy football

[Kev0909]

Not really he was only on for 22 mins, let's not get carried away that much

Ajax was tiring (they can't complain mind compared to us)

but we have a bigger squad at least

the other 3 had a mare kinda tonight, i'd give mane a break and start firmino next game with jota on the left

But depends on the midfield situation

[miller0863]

Hahaha thought you might be on to contribute to this discussion.
Thought he was very sharp when he came on and was unlucky with his finish, at least he hit the target unlike the other three strikers all night who were woeful in front of goal.
Not starting may well just help jolt him out of the rut he’s been in. Happy for him to start v Wolves and I’m sure he will.

[Kev0909]

Hahaha thought you might be on to contribute to this discussion.
Thought he was very sharp when he came on and was unlucky with his finish, at least he hit the target unlike the other three strikers all night who were woeful in front of goal.
Not starting may well just help jolt him out of the rut he’s been in. Happy for him to start v Wolves and I’m sure he will.

Oh for sure, he's the only player up top looking sharp and not fucked

Probably done him a world of good having a bit of a rest, let's hope he carrys on because we need him to be at his best badly atm

[Nineteenx]

His inclusion today, along with as many of our best 11 from our Champions league and Premier League winning best 11 in their best positions in our 433 made tonight's result

[Steveo]

Weakest performer in the team tonight mate. Wasn’t bad by any means but heavy touches were abundant - got in the way of multiple moves.

We would have won by more with Jota in his place IMO but likely would have made little difference. Love Bobby to bits but he needs to improve or the best he can hope for is a recessed role behind Diogo.

[Nineteenx]

Weakest performer in the team tonight mate. Wasn’t bad by any means but heavy touches were abundant - got in the way of multiple moves.

We would have won by more with Jota in his place IMO but likely would have made little difference. Love Bobby to bits but he needs to improve or the best he can hope for is a recessed role behind Diogo.

No, it's the donkey work dropping in that he doesn't get nearly enough credit for that helps this team play at it's best, it helps us control games and boss midfield far better and facilitates Mane and Mo doing what they're brilliant at more of the time

Jota's great, he's scored goals, but the overall team performance levels aren't as good when he plays, Jota time for me will come when we've got Thiago fit and Hendo, Gini and Thiago have had 3 or 4 games together

[Balinkay]

Thought he did quite ok tbh. Had that one absolutely glorious pass to Mane where we took a bit too long.

[Steveo]

No, it's the donkey work dropping in that he doesn't get nearly enough credit for that helps this team play at it's best, it helps us control games and boss midfield far better and facilitates Mane and Mo doing what they're brilliant at more of the time

Jota's great, he's scored goals, but the overall team performance levels aren't as good when he plays, Jota time for me will come when we've got Thiago fit and Hendo, Gini and Thiago have had 3 or 4 games together

But we were not controlling the game for most of the first half dude. Bobby in fact nearly gave a goal away before we broke and scored. He was fine - not bad but far from great. He worked hard and linked up quite well at times is about all you can say

As I said you could put Jota in there and we would have been the same only more potent IMO. Just my opinion mate.

[Nineteenx]

But we were not controlling the game for most of the first half dude. Bobby in fact nearly gave a goal away before we broke and scored. He was fine - not bad but far from great. He worked hard and linked up quite well at times is about all you can say

As I said you could put Jota in there and we would have been the same only more potent IMO. Just my opinion mate.

The overall team performance just isn't as good when Jota starts, 3 or more seasons most of the other lads have played together, all those time served, built and formed relationships and knowledge and know how of each others games may not count for anything in your opinion, but in the real world, especially given the continuity of selection and formation we've enjoyed for 3 seasons, it counts for a hell of a lot more than people seem to realise

And boy did it show tonight

[Nineteenx]

I'd actually say given we've had to change up how we play a little because of injuries and drop the line deeper and not have both full backs pushed as high with this having changed to much more of a 'one stays one goes' for the most part, we're already effectively 1 player short in the midfield area, so it's more important than ever Bobby plays for me

[ianlfc]

I'd love to know what distance he covers during a match compared to others as he never stops.

[Nineteenx]

But we were not controlling the game for most of the first half dude

This actually illustrates the importance of Mane and Mo's runs in behind on goal and in wide areas and having a player at CM who can find them with balls over the top and switches and how important that and everything that supports them doing that more frequently in games is to this team playing at it's highest levels is, Bobby dropping into midfield and the attempted switches and balls over the top from CB and down the line and over the top from our full backs when deeper

Wolves attempted quick start and Neco's undeserved early booking saw Jurgen move Hendo to RCM for a spell to protect him, that fucked up the distribution from CM Mane and Mo thrive on, literally a minute after Jurgen moved Hendo back to CM we scored courtesy of Coady's error trying to deal with Hendo's ball over the top under pressure from Mo and we bossed it from there onwards

Another thing i think people need to think about re Bobby is he is getting crowded out more at times because of the injury enforced 'one stays one goes' fullback situation, that one less option available to him makes it easier for teams to try and crowd him out because they have one less player high and wide in the midfield area to pick up

[dicko1969]

The goals are Salah and Mane
Firmino is the hard work, creating the space, keeping the 2 CBs occupied and creating.

[Steveo]

We all know Bobby’s work rate is legendary - second to none, but he is not close his best from. Last night we win that game with or without him or Jota starting - there was zero input into any of the goals and Wolves were shocking second half.

Plenty of the points we have gained have come directly from Jota’s goals yet some are trying to marginalise his effect already. Doesn’t do Bobby any favours. He played a decent 6/7 last night in a side mainly full of 8/9’s.


Salah
1356min - 15 games 11 goals

Jota
880min. - 10 games 9 goals

Mané.
1275min - 14 games 5 goals

Bobby
1102min - 12 games 2 goals


Them’s the facts.

[CCTV]

Agree with that steveo
0 shots and 0 key passes circa in a decent performance

Salah
Gini
Matip (Goal)
Well Kelleher

The best in their departments

[Kev0909]

Bobby motm cus he megged some peps init

don't really agree with firmino taking players out the game so mane and salah are free

When most of the time they double up on them, and if anything firmino should be more free- see what happened with jota, 3 goals.

[HLOGI]

We all know Bobby’s work rate is legendary - second to none, but he is not close his best from. Last night we win that game with or without him or Jota starting - there was zero input into any of the goals and Wolves were shocking second half.

Plenty of the points we have gained have come directly from Jota’s goals yet some are trying to marginalise his effect already. Doesn’t do Bobby any favours. He played a decent 6/7 last night in a side mainly full of 8/9’s.


Salah
1356min - 15 games 11 goals

Jota
880min. - 10 games 9 goals

Mané.
1275min - 14 games 5 goals

Bobby
1102min - 12 games 2 goals


Them’s the facts.

Agree. Bobby worked hard but was toothless as a attacker. Immediately when Jota came on we looked even more dangerous.

[Steveo]

Agree. Bobby worked hard but was toothless as a attacker. Immediately when Jota came on we looked even more dangerous.

Absolutely.. see that instant pinpoint ball out to Salah? - who should have repaid it in the move for a simple goal - but shot instead.

For me the thing we need most is to get our main Mané back. If he clicks - we will destroy teams.

Feel like Mane, Salah and Jota through the middle - is too much for anyone right now. Obviously am desperate to see Bobby back to his best - he is phenomenal when on form - utterly unique and unplayable.

We have a fab 4! The beauty is if one is off form one other can slot in OR as I would like to see while Virgil is out - play all 4 with Bobby focussed on the link up he can be so wonderful at. But this Klopp geezer seems to know what he is doing...

[Nineteenx]

The facts are 'the best players (on paper) don't always make the best team'

We've been labouring, nowhere near our best for weeks, we play as many of our Champions league Premier league WCC and ESC winning side in their best positions and formation and hey presto a Liverpool performance

It's not rocket science

We're already a man light in the midfield area because injuries have dictated we can't play both full backs high, take Bobby out for Jota and we're 2 light in the midfield area, then the same numpties who don't seem to understand this are having a pop at our midfield :D

If you're going to present an argument at least present one that shows you have at least a semblance of a clue of what made us so formidable and facilitates our 'team' playing at its best

Note to Jurgen: Despite your winning ghe Champions league Premier league WCC and ESC with both full backs and Bobby supplementing our midfield, press and attack, Steveo no longer thinks it's necessary

[Steveo]

The facts are 'the best players (on paper) don't always make the best team'

We've been labouring, nowhere near our best for weeks, we play as many of our Champions league Premier league WCC and ESC winning side in their best positions and formation and hey presto a Liverpool performance

It's not rocket science

We're already a man light in the midfield area because injuries have dictated we can't play both full backs high, take Bobby out for Jota and we're 2 light in the midfield area, then the same numpties who don't seem to understand this are having a pop at our midfield :D

If you're going to present an argument at least present one that shows you have at least a semblance of a clue of what made us so formidable and facilitates our 'team' playing at its best

Note to Jurgen: Despite your winning ghe Champions league Premier league WCC and ESC with both full backs and Bobby supplementing our midfield, press and attack, Steveo no longer thinks it's necessary

Football was never rocket science I agree.

BUT 19 yet again you are wedded to something that simply isn’t true.

We were way below the same level in the CL last season playing the template you believe to be the only one that can ever work. This year despite no Virgil and half a team missing we qualified top - with a game to spare. And would have done so with 2 had we not played such a weakened team v Atalanta.

It doesn’t all boil down to one system and one way of playing mate. It really does not.

Steveo just knows his football on a far higher level to you fella - but recognises that perhaps the Kloppmeister might know a tiny bit more than both :D

[skyebo]

We can all play Football Manager, but we wouldn't have a clue in the real world.

[Steveo]

We can all play Football Manager, but we wouldn't have a clue in the real world.

Quite true. That’s why we spend our time on a forum and the professional’s get paid a fortune to make the real decisions - and this Klopp bloke seems not too bad at it.

[Nineteenx]

Football was never rocket science I agree.

BUT 19 yet again you are wedded to something that simply isn’t true.

We were way below the same level in the CL last season playing the template you believe to be the only one that can ever work. This year despite no Virgil and half a team missing we qualified top - with a game to spare. And would have done so with 2 had we not played such a weakened team v Atalanta.

It doesn’t all boil down to one system and one way of playing mate. It really does not.

Steveo just knows his football on a far higher level to you fella - but recognises that perhaps the Kloppmeister might know a tiny bit more than both :D

Steveo lad, you don't even appreciate how Bobby and having both our full backs high has supplemented our midfield attack and press since Jurgen arrived and how important that is or the importance of all our players being used to that for 5 yeas is :D

I don't indulge in fantasy manager relying purely on stats, i look at the team as a living breathing organism, like the human body in which all parts functioning however spectacularly or unspectacularly make the whole thing function to it's highest possible levels

I

[Nineteenx]

Football was never rocket science I agree.

BUT 19 yet again you are wedded to something that simply isn’t true.

We were way below the same level in the CL last season playing the template you believe to be the only one that can ever work. This year despite no Virgil and half a team missing we qualified top - with a game to spare. And would have done so with 2 had we not played such a weakened team v Atalanta.

It doesn’t all boil down to one system and one way of playing mate. It really does not.

Steveo just knows his football on a far higher level to you fella - but recognises that perhaps the Kloppmeister might know a tiny bit more than both :D

Steveo lad, you don't even understand the importance and significance of both our full backs and our 9 supplementing our midfield and attack despite Jurgen having had them do that ever since he arrived :D

Oh Champions League? You are VERY good at illustrating my points, tougher group last season, but Fabinho at DM as in the Atletico first leg fiasco

Edit: Another to add to the growing list of poor results with Fab at CM, Napoli 2-0 Liverpool

[Kev0909]

I've tried to be good lately, honestly i've tried, I've tried to be nice to him, i've tried to give him a break, he did show some glimspes of improving - which I commented on

But sorry that was a shambles again from him, maybe he knows Jota can't replace him now

Nowhere near good enough- he wasn't the only one, but it's every game with him apart from the odd glimspes of his oldself

FUck sake. sick of it, sick of him being in midfield and giving the ball away, instead of staying up and linking play, sick of him casually jogging about, sick of him hitting the ball like a fucking barbiegirl

Doesn't help the midfield is complete shit at times so he has to drop back to even get a touch of the ball

he's got 2 months to fast improve

[miller0863]

Yep unfortunately produced absolutely nothing today, no closing down, no link play and no threat whatsoever.

[ianlfc]

I'll let Jurgen know.

[Kev0909]

I'll let Jurgen know.

Thanks mate, if he doesn't fast improve i'm sure there's a team in irish footie that'll take him?

Maybe I know there's high standards in that league he'll get on the bench at least?

[Insidious]

The main issue today was he wasn't getting his passing right when dropping deep, which of course means we're potentially surrendering possession when we're in a vulnerable phase of play.

Still really rate him. Just isn't at his best right now and that is magnified when Mane isn't getting goals / we don't have Van Dijk on the field and so on.

[Kev0909]

The main issue today was he wasn't getting his passing right when dropping deep, which of course means we're potentially surrendering possession when we're in a vulnerable phase of play.

Still really rate him. Just isn't at his best right now and that is magnified when Mane isn't getting goals / we don't have Van Dijk on the field and so on.

Yep, he needs to stop coming deep, like I said though it's not his fault he feels like he has to, because the midfield can't get grips of the game, it's happened more than enough times now it's becoming a issue

Especially when we're missing VVD because we're got at more..

[Nineteenx]

He's always had peaks and troughs, always, when we didn't have anyone even nearly good enough to bring in for him, we played him through the troughs back into form

[justme]

The main issue today was he wasn't getting his passing right when dropping deep, which of course means we're potentially surrendering possession when we're in a vulnerable phase of play.

Still really rate him. Just isn't at his best right now and that is magnified when Mane isn't getting goals / we don't have Van Dijk on the field and so on.
For the 5 years hes been at our club hes always given away the ball under pressure. Hes always got caught with the ball.
For a number 9. His return for goals is not good enough..

[ianlfc]

Bobby Dazzler !!

[Steveo]

Let’s be honest - he was utter garbage for the first 20 minutes but got better - still have the ball away at bad times but came good and got the all imports at winner.

[CCTV]

Winner winner, chicken dinner - cracking header, get in :)

[Insidious]

Will do his confidence the World of good that.

Would be a good time to have a purple patch with Mane not scoring many just now. Delighted with his performance once he found his way into the game.

Also, to be clear, no slight on Mane - he has been excellent of late, just not scoring. He offers so much more. All our forwards do.

[Balinkay]

Let’s be honest - he was utter garbage for the first 20 minutes but got better - still have the ball away at bad times but came good and got the all imports at winner.

Bah... it happens. They were all sloppy at times today - even fucking Wijaldum who's one of the tidiest players I've ever seen gave it away once or twice!

Fatigue is catching up with him...


Very happy about Bobby's goal though - he had some samba moments tonight - looks like the spring might be back in his step (at times).

[Steveo]

Over the moon too mate - nobody rates him higher than me - but we do need our old Bobby back. Still has a way to go but he was causing Spurs problems today - and got the goal to shut up that sour faced twat..

[Nineteenx]

Huge credit to Jurgen and the coaching staff and the Kop and returning fans too

Jurgen very obviously made changes to our full backs and Bobby's positions to enable us to play more like we played the last 2 seasons although it still being slightly different, those tweaks made sure we always had 5 or 6 players in and around the midfield area, Bobby didn't have to keep dropping as deep as both full backs were supplementing the midfield better and the forwards were better supported and had better movement again

And the fans belting out Si Senor and letting him know how hugely they appreciate him seemed to give him a huge lift too

[southernboy]

He must be a joy to be around. Absolutely love the guy.



https://youtu.be/jYHZK3wSDkg

[Joetan991]

It is funny to see people keep asking him to stop coming deep, sound like he is a bad student doesn't obey his teacher Klopp teaching.

No, He come deep, play like a Attacking Midfielder role or fake 9, it is according to Klopp tactics, he didn't do anything extra.

Besides just doing his job, he always giving 100% each time, never stop running, fighting, defending, passing, creating chances.

Any clubs in the world would like to have Firmino or Wijnaldum in the team no doubt, although they are extremely under rated, both are worriers for me, never missed training, never (seldom) missed a match.

But people just like to see how Salah and Mane score, how Trent cross, Firmino and Wijnaldum job tend to be gone unnoticed.

[ianlfc]

Bobbys Back !!!

[justme]

This is way more like it.. He didnt drop off as much today. So in the right place to score the chances.. Needs to keep it up now.

[Steveo]

Bobbys Back !!!

Been getting closer and closer to his old self these last few games. Back with a bang today.

[miller0863]

100% back, that winner v Spurs will really have boosted his confidence. His all round game today was nigh on perfect

[ianlfc]

And the smile is back. The rest of the league should be very very worried , as our forward line looked it's old self again.

[Insidious]

More goals and more nutty celebrations please!

[Nineteenx]

I think before slating a player in future people should look at changes in the set up and ask why in Bobby's case for example, he was having to come so deep so much of the time, in the last 2 games Jurgen has changed the full back positions and the way the midfield support them playing higher, which has allowed Bobby to play higher, rotate between all 3 forward positions and not have to drop as deep in midfield and the last 2 games we saw the results of that.

A team, particularly our team where its playing as a unit is it's greatest strength, changing one or two things, affects other things and other players

People were slating or questioning our midfield just last week, yet they had been being outnumbered because of the change of full back position, now Jurgen has addressed that.................

[Steveo]

19 - Bobby has been off it more than on it - since the Club World Cup.. that was a YEAR ago.

It hasn’t been the last few games or even just this season.

For the record- we were poor v Fulham and should have lost. Played far better on Wednesday but got a few breaks in not going behind to Bergwijn and Kane - today - first half we are 3 up against the run of play before blowing them away second half.

I find it extremely doubtful that you know better than Jurgen does.

We have had 2 great wins and a fortunate draw in our last 3 games. It’s great - and Bobby is looking more like his old self - it’s great but doesn’t mean the past didn’t exist.

This being wedded to one setup - one formula and minus any ability to change even one or two players would be going down a blind alley. Great teams need to adapt - as we have - and cope with different personnel - which is a by product of any normal season with injuries and players leaving or coming in.

[Nineteenx]

I think you're misinterpreting my post, Jurgen has changed up the last 2 games, very obviously so, there has been an adjustment of the full back positions so the midfield isn't outnumbered and Bobby can play higher and I was giving him credit for that

Was Bobby of it when he scored our crucial winners against Spurs and Wolves? There were more than that too, goals and assists

Only someone who fails to recognise the subtle changes Jurgen makes would post what you have in your last paragraph, Jurgen has changed things, quite bored of idiots making this broad sweeping statement about me, I actually appreciate that the system and way of playing has numerous permatations, it is several systems in one and Jurgen tweaks it all the time. What for me he has done in the last 2 games is make changes for the midfield and forward line to work as well as it did with the high line with a deeper line and all credit to him

[Steveo]

I may be misinterpreting you but seemed you were suggesting that the system change was the reason why Firmino has not been on it of late.

I am saying he has been mostly off it for nearly a year. And that any systemic change has been to cope with fatigue AND to make us less easy to figure.

As for “Idiots”...? Well come on geezer the constant trolling of Kev - and your selective reasoning don’t really equate with a mastermind do they.?

Also v Wolves as stated he was anonymous in the game - had no impact on the goals or the result - quite the reverse in fact. Just my opinion..

V Spurs he was much improved

It is great he is finding form again - nobody - NOBODY out there rooting for him more than me - but I am not going to pretend his longer term dip was the fault of Klopp.

[ianlfc]

His 2nd goal he started the move just outside his own box then busted a lung getting into the box to finish it. A brilliant goal by a world class player.
And as for the finish for his first, WOW !!!

[RedNoodle]

On "Red Chaff" some are stll saying that Martial is better than Firmino.

[ianlfc]

On "Red Chaff" some are stll saying that Martial is better than Firmino.

They can keep him.

[Steveo]

On "Red Chaff" some are stll saying that Martial is better than Firmino.

Red Chaff - sounds like a new breed of Warbler.?

[Nineteenx]

I may be misinterpreting you but seemed you were suggesting that the system change was the reason why Firmino has not been on it of late.

I am saying he has been mostly off it for nearly a year. And that any systemic change has been to cope with fatigue AND to make us less easy to figure.

As for “Idiots”...? Well come on geezer the constant trolling of Kev - and your selective reasoning don’t really equate with a mastermind do they.?

Also v Wolves as stated he was anonymous in the game - had no impact on the goals or the result - quite the reverse in fact. Just my opinion..

V Spurs he was much improved

It is great he is finding form again - nobody - NOBODY out there rooting for him more than me - but I am not going to pretend his longer term dip was the fault of Klopp.

Trolling Kev? :D Well, I'll admit I was a little, but his absolute joy at thoroughly disrespecting Bobby a couple of weeks back and how large he was giving it and running Bobby down when Jota bagged a few pissed me right off, so he thoroughly deserved it.

And he was also trolling Hendo the last couple of games too

I don't have selective reasoning, my reasoning I very much always focused on the team and the team playing at it's best'

I don't do new next bestest thing, I don't do knee jerk if someone who has been a regular fantastic contributor has a dip in form, or they are obviously working on expanding/evolving their game or it seems apparent to me that other changes that have been necessary are impacting on their ability to play at their best.

I don't do sentiment either though, as in, if I see evolution and the team playing to much higher levels with a different player in a position over a number of games, then what someone else has done, in a different style prior to the evolution, 2 years ago which never achieved the same levels of performance or consistency of results doesn't cut it for me

We can't include players on the basis of what they did 2 years ago prior to the team evolving, we have to move forward, and if they want to be included in a certain position they used to be the best in, albeit for a period of only 6 months/half a season, then they have to work as hard as the lad who took their place did to develop their game and take it as they absolutely should have to, they shouldn't just have it handed to them, Shanks, Bob, Joe, Kenny would never, NEVER in a million years have had it, and rightly so

That's the Liverpool way over 6 decades, someone comes in does better than you consistently over numerous games and the team plays far better with them in your place and the results are better, the shirt and that spot is theirs, and it's down to you to work your bollocks off to evolve and improve your own game to take it back when your chances, which are now more limited present themselves

[RedNoodle]

Red Chaff - sounds like a new breed of Warbler.?

Well they are 'bird brained' on there.

[Steveo]

@19 great post BTW - it doesn’t always come across like that and maybe I have misunderstood you. Apologies.

Kev is really just having a laugh most of the time mate - he is clearly as happy for anyone to do as well as anyone else - just as long as they’re in a Liverpool shirt. Aren’t we all...?

Don’t take his posts too seriously.

[dicko1969]

Fabinho at CB...
SENSATIONAL.

klopp was right not replacing Lovren right now.

Fabinho has grown quite quickly into the best CB in England.

Unbelievable.

[Insidious]

Fabinho is unreal. Really is. In terms of who you wouldn't want to lose to a long-term injury, he is probably too of my list right now.

It's not that he is our "best" player - but there is an argument that he is the "most useful" player. A Swiss Army Knife within the tool-box, as it were.

Just a joy to watch.

[Nineteenx]

Fabinho at CB...
SENSATIONAL.

klopp was right not replacing Lovren right now.

Fabinho has grown quite quickly into the best CB in England.

Unbelievable.

I absolutely wholeheartedly agree, he has been absolutely fantastic at CB and long may that continue and for the record, for 6 months of his time prior to that, when he played as an out and out DM before that position evolved into a CM role, I thought he was absolutely fantastic.

I'm not meaning him any disrespect whatsoever when I say from everything I have seen from him that I'm not sure he'll ever be a CM, he's a VERY good out and out DM, but even in that role I'd now prefer Hendo because his distribution and organising everyone around him is just so much better

And let's be honest, as I think my continuous high praise of Captain Fantastic is misunderstood, NONE of us. not a single one of us expected Hendo to take his game to the levels he has when the opportunity to play CM presented itself to him last season, I'm still in absolute awe of the quantum leap and evolution he made to his game and the team in the face of competition and threat to his place and potentially even his future, to me what he has done and how hard he has worked to achieve it is absolutely brilliant and what competition for places and working your bollocks off to make the spot your own again is and should be all about

[Insidious]

Red Chaff - sounds like a new breed of Warbler.?

Joking aside, any Bird nerds on here?

That's another one of my hobbies.

[Steveo]

Joking aside, any Bird nerds on here?

That's another one of my hobbies.



My brother is a bird lover.

7 years older than me and has Aspergers - but I grew up listening to the sounds of various birds - Ida ducks I think and pretty sure the sound of a Curlew - all on vinyl..

He would always stand staring up at the sky at the first sign of swift’s arriving. Birds are actually amazing. I never understood his fascination back then but have grown to with age.

No way am I a bird nerd but - perhaps approaching

Found that sound... now that is nostalgia.. Frankie Howerd eat your heart out



https://youtu.be/END6WV9Ya7Q

[CCTV]

Joking aside, any Bird nerds on here?

That's another one of my hobbies.

An off topic thread perhaps ? Your last post on here was interesting

[dicko1969]

https://youtu.be/5dzaq3dr7Pk

[faridtoxteth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8tSNAqPygQ

[CCTV]

https://youtu.be/5dzaq3dr7Pk

Checkout the stubble on dem birds !

[CCTV]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8tSNAqPygQ

Very good farid, beaming bobby at the end:)

[miller0863]

If we are to retain our title and win No7 we really need Bobby to be on it.
I don’t remember him ever playing really well and us losing.

[Insidious]

An off topic thread perhaps ? Your last post on here was interesting

On Birds? Aye I could probably manage that.

[Insidious]

Footage of Bobby bullying the other children at school.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8tSNAqPygQ

[Kev0909]

World

Class

[miller0863]

Dire

[Kev0909]

World class

[Kev0909]

On "Red Chaff" some are stll saying that Martial is better than Firmino.

because he is

[justme]

Again Firmino scoring contributions in the last year and half is completely terrible. which other top club in the world. would allow a player to go that amount of games without a goal?? any??

[ianlfc]

He was awful tonight, bur there's others as well.

[Kev0909]

He was awful tonight, bur there's others as well.

he's always awful

but there's other aswell haahaha

nearly at 40pts

[Balinkay]

Had one truly quality moment - the backheel to Mane... the rest was mostly crap.

[ianlfc]

he's always awful

but there's other aswell haahaha

nearly at 40pts

always ? Short memory some people.
This time last year YOU were saying he's the best in the world !! Your words not mine. 😆😆

[jozza800]

he's always awful

but there's other aswell haahaha

nearly at 40pts

Take your pick. Firmino is getting pelters (and quite rightly) but Salah and Mane have been just as bad for the last month. If the two, Mane in particular
He's been very poor for months now.

I'd be gutted if I were Origi and I'd be instructing my agent to find me a.new club. He's not the answer, but he (and Minamino) can't be any worse.

[Kev0909]

always ? Short memory some people.
This time last year YOU were saying he's the best in the world !! Your words not mine. ����

I've been saying how shit he is for ages now!!!!!!!!

haters use to hate me for it

but haters gonna hate

NOT ANYMORE

HA-HA

[ianlfc]

Take your pick. Firmino is getting pelters (and quite rightly) but Salah and Mane have been just as bad for the last month. If the two, Mane in particular
He's been very poor for months now.

I'd be gutted if I were Origi and I'd be instructing my agent to find me a.new club. He's not the answer, but he (and Minamino) can't be any worse.

My feeling exactly.

[Nineteenx]

To be fair to all our forwards, they started the season in title winning form, Klopp played them our of form pissing about with their positions, no two ways about it

[teesred]

All 3 way out of sorts, one of them needs to snap out of it sharpish.
I've said a few times now I think Firmino could have peaked. This isn't a bad spell now, we are talking over a year.
The front as a unit needs something different. I know we've got Jota and ges one for the future but maybe Salah,Firmino and Mane have had their time together. 4 and 5 years at LFC now. Thats a long time for a front 3 to stay together.

[Nineteenx]

All 3 way out of sorts, one of them needs to snap out of it sharpish.
I've said a few times now I think Firmino could have peaked. This isn't a bad spell now, we are talking over a year.
The front as a unit needs something different. I know we've got Jota and ges one for the future but maybe Salah,Firmino and Mane have had their time together. 4 and 5 years at LFC now. Thats a long time for a front 3 to stay together.

I have every faith in them and wish people would consider the following:

They haven't had the opportunity to play in our best 11 for any games let alone a run of games with the midfield 3 of Hendo, Gini and Thiago

The planned evolution of our play and developing it with the high press we were able to play with Virigl and Matip or Joe at CB, which would no doubt have seen greater variation of movement by our forwards and our full backs in opening sides up, including the forwards opening the channels between RB and RCB and LB and LCB for Thiago to thread balls through and play the full backs in and find different runs from the forwards hasn't had any opportunity to take place and even start developing yet, we've played 18 games and haven't once been able to field the midfield 3 of Hendo, Gini and Thiago

We rarely passed through team the last 2 seasons at all, a great many of our goals were through winning second balls, robbing opponents or recycling a cleared ball from a set piece in great areas high up and creating from there and because of injuries we haven't been able to play like that

[teesred]

All good points. The loss of Virgil is being felt big now. The midfield and defence are feeling it.
Personally do feel Firmino is becoming a real issue. You simply can't have a forward who misses so many chances, he had 2 good opportunities today, one which he couldn't have hit wider if he tried. Hes the one in that front 3 who should be worrying about his place the most.
We have had a lot of chop and change due to injuries so maybe I'm being harsh and over the top with the front 3 needing a refresh.

[Nineteenx]

All good points. The loss of Virgil is being felt big now. The midfield and defence are feeling it.
Personally do feel Firmino is becoming a real issue. You simply can't have a forward who misses so many chances, he had 2 good opportunities today, one which he couldn't have hit wider if he tried. Hes the one in that front 3 who should be worrying about his place the most.
We have had a lot of chop and change due to injuries so maybe I'm being harsh and over the top with the front 3 needing a refresh.

My main disappointment has been the lack of variation of movement between the forwards and full backs and our not further developing our full backs games and contributions this season.

They get to play a lot higher up for a lot more time than the full backs of any other side in world football, they get to do so at the expense of having attacking midfielders and our midfielders getting further forward more often.

People talk, quite a lot, about my belief in one way of playing, but that's pertinently untrue, I'm always looking for and expecting Jurgen, the coaching staff and our players to expand on and evolve how we play, a big part of that HAS tp be evolving how our full backs play and contribute given what we sacrifice in other areas to allow them to play so high

We should even with the injury issues we've had and having had Thiago missing for most games, have already started the evolution of our full backs play and contribution as although at times there wouldn't be a player to release them, they could and should at least be being found in the half space between opposition RB and RCB and LB and LCB in a position to put an early low ball into the box in behind both CB's towards the penalty spot/far post.

Creating those situations isn't reliant of us having Virgil or Thiago, it only requires the deliberate movement of the LFWD or RFWD to take the full back very wide to the corner, the LCM or RCM to back them up down the line to allow Robbo or Trent to be found with a late run to arrive in that position to put in an early low cross or burst through the channel into the box with the ball

It's also hugely disappointing, that given the quality of the delivery of both, we haven't worked on both putting more balls in from deeper when in a wider position, it is on so many times in every game for both of them, more Robbo than Trent, where they can still play the ball through the channel between LB and LCB or RB and RCB or over LCB or RCB dipping just past the penalty spot towards the far post

For me, they should already be doing those things and both should be getting more goals

Those balls might at first not always have a player connect with them to turn them home, but putting them in there more frequently will surely prompt the variation of movement of the forwards until there are players arriving to connect with them in no time at all, and there we are, simply, easily doable variation of play and movement, with what we currently have at our disposal to better create and score goals against the sides that park the bus

People can slate our midfield all they like, the reality is, in Jurgen's set up, they, Gini and Hendo in particular have been used to create a platform for both our full backs to operate in areas other teams would have a more attacking mid, and they and Jurgen and the coaching staff aren't currently doing nearly enough to maximise that and expand on it

[Insidious]

Teams playing as deep as they do currently will limit Bobby's effectiveness. He is a counter-pressing Monster, but we are getting very few chances to counter-press in comparison to the past when faced with these 4-5-1 and 6-3-1 walls that will become the norm for us to face as we become a more possession-based and less transition-focused side.

I wouldn't be bombing Firmino out as I absolutely love what he brings to the Table in certain types of games and European matches especially will yield opportunities with him when it comes to transitions and counter-pressing, but I do think we are evolving to a point where someone else may in time push him further down the pecking order due to being a better fit for the direction we are headed in, be it Jota or someone else. Alternatively, some tactical tweaking may re-ignite Bobby a bit, but his capacity to contribute to the extent we would like has been wavering a little during this evolution of ours over the last 18 months or so.

It's fantastic to have his situational movement, vision, and creativity when he is in form and we are getting opportunities to transition but those two circumstances (and their overlap) seem few and far between right now.

[teesred]

Teams playing as deep as they do currently will limit Bobby's effectiveness. He is a counter-pressing Monster, but we are getting very few chances to counter-press in comparison to the past when faced with these 4-5-1 and 6-3-1 walls that will become the norm for us to face as we become a more possession-based and less transition-focused side.

I wouldn't be bombing Firmino out as I absolutely love what he brings to the Table in certain types of games and European matches especially will yield opportunities with him when it comes to transitions and counter-pressing, but I do think we are evolving to a point where someone else may in time push him further down the pecking order due to being a better fit for the direction we are headed in, be it Jota or someone else. Alternatively, some tactical tweaking may re-ignite Bobby a bit, but his capacity to contribute to the extent we would like has been wavering a little during this evolution of ours over the last 18 months or so.

It's fantastic to have his situational movement, vision, and creativity when he is in form and we are getting opportunities to transition but those two circumstances (and their overlap) seem few and far between right now.

Teams have worked us out by defending deep so that makes his role difficult to justify when he's not scoring. We can say Salah and Mane aren't either but thry are only just recently off the boil. Firmino has been poor fir some time now.
Teams playing a high line against know they're getting taken out. It was happening a fair bit last season but we had a fair amount of luck and late goals that got us out of the jam.

[eggy81]

Teams have worked us out by defending deep so that makes his role difficult to justify when he's not scoring. We can say Salah and Mane aren't either but thry are only just recently off the boil. Firmino has been poor fir some time now.
Teams playing a high line against know they're getting taken out. It was happening a fair bit last season but we had a fair amount of luck and late goals that got us out of the jam.

The problem isn’t Bobby’s play and contribution around the pitch. The problem is that he doesn’t score anything outside of a tap in these days. The goal Kane scored today none of our front 3 would have scored.

[miller0863]

To be fair eggy, Mo has belted one or two in from outside the box.