LFC to take strongest possible action following derby VAR debacle

[Nineteenx]

Personally, I think moving forward it is absolutely imperitif that the club takes the strongest possible action in the light of the astonishing misuse and clear bias in the application of VAR yesterday

First and foremost and what is vitally important before proceeding is that the club obtain all available footage of the incidents. Study each incident forensically and ensure there is absolutely no doubt all 3 decisions were, put simply, deliberately plain wrong and can therefore only possibly be viewed as an act of gross misconduct by the VAR official and an act of clear and deliberate bias.

This isn't swings and roundabouts, human error due to the speed of the action live on the pitch, this is VAR, the purpose of which is to study the footage of key incidents with those elements removed to ensure the laws of the game are applied correctly and the correct decisions are made. There is simply and absolutely no excuse whatsoever for yesterday's VAR official to have wilfully and deliberately advised the referee entirely incorrectly if indeed the clubs forensic analysis of the footage confirms what we and everyone else in the football world believe to be true, that all 3 major VAR decisions we patently incorrect.

The case to answer is as follows:

In the incident with Van Dijk, the footage appears to show that Virgil wasn't offside at all and was very clearly onside. It is the duty of the VAR official to look at that footage and advise the match referee that the player wasn't offside and he needs to revise his decision, award a penalty and issue a red card to Pickford

Further in the incident with Virgil, the laws of the game re dangerous play/violent conduct are very clear, indeed, later in the same game match referee Michael Oliver applied the laws correctly sending Richarlison off for a dangerous two footed challenge on Thiago which came after the whistle had been blown for another foul. Again, the duty of the VAR official, even in the event that Van Dijk was offside, is to advise the match official that he needs to look again at Pickford's challenge and issue a red card.

The last issue is what should have been a deserved late winner when Henderson converted Mane's centre, Mane incredibly being incorrectly adjudged to be offside by the VAR official when match official Michael Oliver had correctly awarded a goal.

All these things being as they appeared to everyone who saw them except for the VAR official on the day when the club review the footage they should absolutely insist on the strongest possible action and should go far further than just the FA and referees association, but should take the issue up with UEFA and FIFA and enlist the support of Virgil's national team manager as to how scandalous the decision to take no action against Pickford was.

Towards the end of last season it became apparent to me at least, that the sort of bias we used to see from match officials, them adversly influencing the outcome of games with plain wrong decisions, deliberately and through human error had started to creep into the decisions being made by VAR officials, with VAR there simply are NO excuses for the human error element too many people used to give match officials the benefit of the doubt with.

To me, like with many things, how those VAR decisions in the final quarter of last season were portrayed by commentators and our media was simply an attempt to try and normalise clear and deliberate bias as somehow acceptable, we CAN NOT accept it, we should not accept it, there is no excuse for it and it is completely, utterly and entirely unacceptable.

This is why I believe that having made the appropriate checks the club should push for the strongest possible action and take it to the very highest levels of the game with UEFA and FIFA because i for one do not want to see the outcome of games and the winners of competitions and the League title decided by such deliberate wrong decisions, after 30 years of it and last season being the first season in my lifetime that any team has won a league title without any supporter of any club being able to legitimately raise questions about points gained in some games and lost by their rivals in others when officials got things badly wrong, wilfully or otherwise and it is a huge step forward and we need to preserve that.

I would call for that VAR official to issue a full explanation and apology and be immediately removed and disbarred from having any further role in making VAR decisions or any part in officiating games also as that kind of deliberate bias simply no longer has any place in the game

[skyebo]

There is absolutely no chance of (1) that, or those officials coming out to explain themselves and (2) apologising for their actions. Incidents like those yesterday happen all the time and nothing gets done regarding punishing officials just because certain decisions go against clubs. VAR isn't going anywhere, it will be another team on the wrong end of things next week, or even today. Officials don't or shouldn't have to explain themselves for coming to a decision that we don't like. Just move on, whatever happens or doesn't happen, it won't alter the result of the game. We never needed VAR to start with, goalline technology is definitive and it comes to the right decisions each and every time, everything else is down to opinion, that's why it will never improve the sport. VAR was supposed to clear up any offside decisions, yesterday just proved it isn't doing.

[miller0863]

Arsenal will feel aggrieved that they didn’t get a penalty for a ridiculously high boot from Walker in the box, while Timo Werner clearly controlled the ball on his arm (below his shirt sleeve) before scoring his second.
The officials are absolutely clueless as to how to use VAR, clueless.

[Nineteenx]

Yesterday was an act of clear and deliberate bias by a VAR official who with the speed of the game removed and the benefit of reviewing the footage in still frame and slow motion and numerous different angles had no excuse whatsoever to incorrectly advise Michael Oliver

This isn't an opinion, these weren't 'open to interpretation' incidents, these were cut and dried review the footage and make sure the correct decisions were awarded under the laws of the game decisions and there's no excuse whatsoever for that

I is absolutely vital the club pursue this and the immediate removal of that official from any part in officiating games, you're entirely missing the point, there where incidents last season which people didn't like which were the result of VAR being applied as FIFA and UEFA had outlined on certain incidents, and this season with the Dier handball, no-one liked it, but VAR was applied as the laws of the game and FIFA and UEFA interpretation of such instances required it to be, yesterdays incidents ARE NOT the same as what you are talking about

It's vital the club go incredibly strong on this after making the appropriate forensic footage checks, because this is EXACTLY how this sort of bias is allowed to be normalised and the club need to make it absolutely clear we will not stand for it and we will not accept it

[Balinkay]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. VAR cannot be run by refs. It should be an independent organisation with independent people in it.

I think Casey Keller said they have that system in one of the American sports. Think it's an amazing idea.

[skyebo]

People were calling for VAR years before they brought it in, as they wasn't happy with the referees making all the calls. I don't just mean fans, managers and owners were desperate for it to be brought in. A few decisions don't go their way, and now it seems like a bad idea. Those people should have been more careful in what they wished for.

[skyebo]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. VAR cannot be run by refs. It should be an independent organisation with independent people in it.

I think Casey Keller said they have that system in one of the American sports. Think it's an amazing idea.

Maybe the rules in those sports are easier for everyone to understand.

[faridtoxteth]

This is the first time in all my years watching games that I felt there was real prejudice involved.
Over the years there have been lots of marginal decisions, who can forget that we lost the league, arguably, to city two seasons ago because of the ball not being one millimetre more over the line.
Jon Moss, who I think is just inept rather than malicious , has single handedly caused us a lot of grief. But despite all the conspiracy theories I just accepted that sometimes it goes against you due to bad human judgement.
However yesterday you had the sense that it was not just inept judgement. They took about five minutes moving those lines around Sadio Mane, they wanted it to be offside, but it just wasn't. In the end they sort of said fuck it, it's offside end of story.
Someone on here on another thread said the guy reading the VAR was someone called Coot, I think, and he is well known to be a Man Utd fan.Is that true?.
I know they have a rule in place that says a referee has to indicate what club he supports and he obviously can't ref games with that club involved, but someone reffing a game between his favourites rivals can clearly be biased.
It's gonna be a tight league this year. Will we miss out by two points?

[Kev0909]

I don't see the point in the club even bothering, not going to make any difference

should of just sliced the cunts down instead, stevie g would after seeing the incidents.

we're soft, I know it's good and don't want our players to get sent off, but we really are soft, sometimes I wish we had a player that actually got stuck in.

[faridtoxteth]

You remember how Everton were under Moyes, and even Joe Royal's dogs of war. But you expect a bit more class from an Ancelotti side. Richarlison has clearly got anger management problems.

[Nineteenx]

I don't know how much football outside the Premier League other people watch here

A lot of other nations have had VAR for 2 years, Germany, France, Holland, I've watched more games a season the past 2 seasons in those leagues than I have Premier League games and bar the once in e blue moon wrong un, the officials and VAR officials in particular are incredibly adept at applying VAR absolutely perfectly correctly according to the laws of the game and each season's FIFA and UEFA interpretations perfectly a very high 90's percentage of the time

That's why I believe the club should take this as far as they possibly can, the Premier League English FA and referees association should not be a law unto themselves able to flaunt the rules and laws of the games, claim certain things that have clearly defined interpretation are subjective and adversly affect the result of games, I've had 30 years of that and I'm sick of watching other league's officials use VAR for the purposes of it's conception perfectly correctly and our league having the same old bullshit controversy game after game after game because for whatever reason our officials, the FA the Premier League are incapable of doing that or refuse to

If anyone here is capable of being completely honest, we don't have this crap in the other top European leagues, we don't have it in the Champions League, why the FUCK should we accept it in anyway shape or form in the Premier League?

There's a reason in our less successful times we faired better in European competition than the domestic league and other sides, despite their domestic dominance, struggled to replicate that and simply didn't get the decisions they got from UK officials from those in Europe applying the laws as they were required to.

Question for all of you

You have a grand on the favourite in the national to win, the race ends in a photo finish, your horse from all images wins just by a nose, the guy who is in charge of looking at the photo finish decides, even though patently wrong the other horse won, would you accept that? Would there be any excuse for such an error?

Would there fuck, you would not accept this in horse racing or any other sport, it isn't any sort of issue of major controversy every weekend in any other major European league or in the Champions League, why the fuck should we accept it in the Premier League?

The club have to go huge on this, because like the appalling state of the UK, if we accept and go with this "Nothing will change, we can't do anything about it" defeatist lame attitude, the club will only be setting itself up and other clubs to be on the receiving end of it time and time and time again and like a host of very other shit things, it will become normalised

[ianlfc]

Fuck all will be done,It's probably pay back for trying to start up our own league .

[3underpar]

Maybe the rules in those sports are easier for everyone to understand.

Not really. NFL rules are also quite subjective on certain things like touchdowns, offside, holding, etc. But the difference is a coach can challenge a call and make the ref go look at the screen himself and make the call.

[LEGS]

I don't see the point in the club even bothering, not going to make any difference

should of just sliced the cunts down instead, stevie g would after seeing the incidents.

we're soft, I know it's good and don't want our players to get sent off, but we really are soft, sometimes I wish we had a player that actually got stuck in.

Nothing will be done but this is a Fergie trick he would 100% have called em out if this happened to him.

Fergie would be right to do that and I think we are too you put it out there you bekieve cheating is going on it makes sure you get a fair decision next time which is all everybody wants.

[skyebo]

Not really. NFL rules are also quite subjective on certain things like touchdowns, offside, holding, etc. But the difference is a coach can challenge a call and make the ref go look at the screen himself and make the call.

Thanks for that, i know nothing about any of their sports.

[southernboy]

Van Dijk has suffered damage to his ACL and will undergo surgery #LFC

[CCTV]

Nothing will be done but this is a Fergie trick he would 100% have called em out if this happened to him.

Fergie would be right to do that and I think we are too you put it out there you bekieve cheating is going on it makes sure you get a fair decision next time which is all everybody wants.

If I were in Klopp shoes, Klopp wouldn't look so classy, this would be all out war.
Skyebo iirc was saying we bitch about the refs all the time, biased etc and he is right in many ways. We are biased ourselves.
But I'd separate yesterdays game as full blown corruption.

I'd take every opportunity in press conferences to bring heat on our enemies and call them the enemies of the football club and the game.
I'd talk about the damage to the leagues main sponsors, name them and state their brand is being damaged by the corruption within football.

[skyebo]

If I were in Klopp shoes, Klopp wouldn't look so classy, this would be all out war.
Skyebo iirc was saying we bitch about the refs all the time, biased etc and he is right in many ways. We are biased ourselves.
But I'd separate yesterdays game as full blown corruption.

I'd take every opportunity in press conferences to bring heat on our enemies and call them the enemies of the football club and the game.
I'd talk about the damage to the leagues main sponsors, name them and state their brand is being damaged by the corruption within football.

CCTV. It won't be just our fans complaining about officials, most of them will be doing it.

[CCTV]

CCTV. It won't be just our fans complaining about officials, most of them will be doing it.

I agree with you that we fans moan an awful lot about referees.
But with regard to yesterday's game from what I've seen, theres a general consensus that there was corruption.
No red card for pickford, dodgy lines being drawn and redrawn to manufacture offsides.

[skyebo]

That's why it's wrong to stick a microphone under a manager's nose so soon after a game, especially if that manager feels he's been hard done by. Klopp will know nothing will get done now he's had a chance to cool off. I'd like to see Pickford get a retrospective ban, but don't know how that side of things work. I'm pretty sure the ones who did nothing about it will have seen it since the game ended and realise they got it wrong. If they don't, then they don't deserve to be in that job.

[dicko1969]

TAA is playing fifa with VAR mode off

[southernboy]

Putting Henderson's disallowed goal to one side, if Pickford had been sent off, as he should've been, I'm pretty sure we'd have won that game comfortably. That's the decision that cost us. There have been dozens of similar tight/bizarre offside decisions.

[Nineteenx]

The point really is, i watch several other top European leagues, none of them, aside for the odd, once in a blue moon incident have any furore or controversy about how VAR is used and applied, the Premier League can not continue being a law unto itself and using it to affect the outcomes of games contray to the laws of the game and prescribed UEFA/FIFA interpretation of said laws

It did also happen in the UAE FC game yesterday, with Arsenal denied a penalty and no review conducted, when in every other top European league i watch, in which they use VAR correctly and apply the laws of the game correctly and in the Champions or Europa League it's a penalty, no fuss, no controversy, no officials doing as they please, penalty

Yes there are elements of VAR that ppl don't like the UEFA/FIFA rules on how laws must be applied and interpreted, but what happened yesterday had nothing to do with that. The VAR official twice telling the match referee a player was offside when he wasn't is completely unacceptable

Neither were one of the 0.5mm of a players shirt offside that everyone disliked so much, they simply weren't offside at all

[dicko1969]

In france they have the refs punching the players or kicking them.

Top reffing that 🤣🤣

[dicko1969]

https://www.francefootball.fr/news/Var-10-fois-ou-la-video-a-fait-scandale-en-france/1123169

Doesn't happen in the other European leagues

" I watch several other top European leagues, none of them, aside for the odd, once in a blue moon incident"

Where there is 10 for a start in ligue 1 🤣

[redebreck]

What would happen if the club put in a complaint about the manner in which the game was refereed?
Even with mounds of evidence supporting us, the FA would become even more bent against us.