Premier League table VAR applied correctly and honestly

[Nineteenx]

1 Liverpool P6 W5 D0 L1 GF16 GA13 GD3 PTS15
2 Everton P6 W4 D0 L2 GF14 GA10 GD4 PTS12
5 Chelsea P6 W3 D2 L1 GF 14 GA9 GD5 PTS 11
7 Arsenal P6 W3 D1 L2 GF9 GA7 GD2 PTS10
14 Man City P5 W1 D3 L1 GF 8 GA9 GD-1 PTS6
15 MAN UTD P5 W2 D0 L3 GF9 GA13 GD-4 PTS6

That's where all the clubs affected positively or adversley should currently stand but for corrupt application of VAR especially for all you the best team always wins the league crowd

[CCTV]

While I like many others called out the skullduggery of officials in the game v the blueshites in real time, think it's a bit funny to claim games would follow the exact same history when you retrospectively alter the score.

With regards to our draw, we lost a winning position twice and really that is something we should look to ourselves to sort.
Virgil will be a big miss naturally.

[Taksin]

Thanks, 19x

I tried to start a thread last season tracking this, intending to expose the 'swings and roundabouts' cliché. I'll be impressed if you can keep it going..

Out of interest - how have you judged the Derby result. On what basis were the decisions that effected the points incorrect?

[Nineteenx]

Thanks, 19x

I tried to start a thread last season tracking this, intending to expose the 'swings and roundabouts' cliché. I'll be impressed if you can keep it going..

Out of interest - how have you judged the Derby result. On what basis were the decisions that effected the points incorrect?

There are numerous points to consider re the derby, firstly it was entirely clear Virgil was not offside Calvert-Lewin was very clearly playing him on and by a good half a yard, there was nothing remotely marginal about it, so it should have been a penalty and Prickford should have been red carded as he should have even if Virgil had been offside, that isn't my 'opinion', that is the laws of the game as demonstrated by Michael Oliver in the same game when sending off Richarlieson for another horrendous tackle he made after Oliver had already blown his whistle for another foul.

Mane was not offside for Hendo's late winner

Adjusting the score to 3-2 for an incorrectly ruled out late winner is all i have done, had VAR not been misued and the laws of the game applied correctly the bitters would have been reduced to 10 men and facing a penalty for 2-0 in the 12th minute of the game and would have got a considerable beating without question

[skyebo]

The correct thing to do is to bin VAR, but we all know it won't happen because so many people wanted it brought in, and to get rid of it now would cause so much embarrasement. Those people should have been more careful for what they wished for. I was one of only a handful who said it wouldnt work and they shouldn't bring it in as it would cause more problems than it would solve. VAR gets more air time than the games do. New things are brought in to improve things, not to cause controversy and confusion. I forgot to watch SSN this morning to see what Dermot Gallagher had to say, no doubt he agreed with every decision that the officials and VAR made. I've yet to see him disagree with them.

[justme]

I didnt know at the beginning how the offside rule would work with Var.. I mentioned how would they solve really close calls..And its been borne out. Of course the clowns at the FA have such a barmy rule about armpits to make it even more bizarre.Means the officials have to line up lines with armpits and legs and arses and on so on.
I would keep Var but get rid of offsides let the linesman deal with it. If he makes an error so be it.VAR is good on sending's offs.
Just need the clowns in the booth to get them decisions correct now.

[Nineteenx]

The correct thing to do is to bin VAR, but we all know it won't happen because so many people wanted it brought in, and to get rid of it now would cause so much embarrasement. Those people should have been more careful for what they wished for. I was one of only a handful who said it wouldnt work and they shouldn't bring it in as it would cause more problems than it would solve. VAR gets more air time than the games do. New things are brought in to improve things, not to cause controversy and confusion. I forgot to watch SSN this morning to see what Dermot Gallagher had to say, no doubt he agreed with every decision that the officials and VAR made. I've yet to see him disagree with them.

VAR is not the issue, the issue is the Premier League English FA and refs association being bent as fuck as they have been for the last few decades and failing to use it for the purposes of its inception and ensure decisions are correct and the laws of the game are applied correctly because doing those things completely removes their ability to adversely and perversely decide the outcome of games, league champions and top four positions they have enjoyed for the last 30 years

[skyebo]

I didnt know at the beginning how the offside rule would work with Var.. I mentioned how would they solve really close calls..And its been borne out. Of course the clowns at the FA have such a barmy rule about armpits to make it even more bizarre.Means the officials have to line up lines with armpits and legs and arses and on so on.
I would keep Var but get rid of offsides let the linesman deal with it. If he makes an error so be it.VAR is good on sending's offs.
Just need the clowns in the booth to get them decisions correct now.

People are still complaining about offside decisions, that was one area it was suppose to solve.

[Insidious]

Simplest thing to me with VAR would be to pick a body-part and stick with it as the ruling.

Look at Athletics and the chest as an example. If the attacking player's chest is level with or behind the chest of the last defender, he is onside and if it's ahead of the chest of the last defender, he's off.

Would surely be a slight improvement.

[Nineteenx]

People are still complaining about offside decisions, that was one area it was suppose to solve.

Simple solution has always been to use a line and take it from the positions of the players feet as that is the only part of their bodies being further forward than the defenders that can possibly give an attacker an advantage

[Kev0909]

it was amusing the bitter shites was crying about dinges red card other day after what happened v us

[skyebo]

Simple solution has always been to use a line and take it from the positions of the players feet as that is the only part of their bodies being further forward than the defenders that can possibly give an attacker an advantage

Whatever system they are using to come up with answers, it's clearly not working.

[justincredible]

Was on Blue Moon earlier today. They are convinced that VAR is there to help Liverpool and Utd to win the league.
They obviously haven't seen our last two PL games, lolzers...

[skyebo]

it was amusing the bitter shites was crying about dinges red card other day after what happened v us

Managers see what they want to see. Wenger was labelled for years because of it.

[Nineteenx]

Whatever system they are using to come up with answers, it's clearly not working.

I think the managers should all get together a push UEFA and FIFA to make the adjustment that all VAR offside decisions will be determined by the position of the players feet

It's really quite straight forward, all players use their FEET, not their arm, their shoulder, their arm pit or their backside to run to be first to a ball at the time it is played

They are not gaining and cannot possibly gain any advantage whatsoever from the position of any other part of their body other than their feet

The Puki one last illustrated perfectly, that using anything but the feet we're detracting massively from the players art of timing their run and movement perfectly and giving the forward the benfit of the doubt to giving bad defenders a ridiculous advantage

Puki timed his run absolutely perfectly and brilliantly, because he was running towards goal and the defence were trying to push out he was leaning towards goal and the defenders away from it, they found him offside by 2mm of his shoulder position, he's not going to score with his frickin shoulder, his fett were a foot and a half further back than the deepest defenders, of course he's going to be leaning one way and them the other. If any of those defenders were quick enough or alert enough they are still closer to goal with the part of their body they use to turn and run

[skyebo]

I think the managers should all get together a push UEFA and FIFA to make the adjustment that all VAR offside decisions will be determined by the position of the players feet

It's really quite straight forward, all players use their FEET, not their arm, their shoulder, their arm pit or their backside to run to be first to a ball at the time it is played

They are not gaining and cannot possibly gain any advantage whatsoever from the position of any other part of their body other than their feet

The Puki one last illustrated perfectly, that using anything but the feet we're detracting massively from the players art of timing their run and movement perfectly and giving the forward the benfit of the doubt to giving bad defenders a ridiculous advantage

Puki timed his run absolutely perfectly and brilliantly, because he was running towards goal and the defence were trying to push out he was leaning towards goal and the defenders away from it, they found him offside by 2mm of his shoulder position, he's not going to score with his frickin shoulder, his fett were a foot and a half further back than the deepest defenders, of course he's going to be leaning one way and them the other. If any of those defenders were quick enough or alert enough they are still closer to goal with the part of their body they use to turn and run

Something needs to be done. I didn't see the Pukki incident you are talking about.

[scientificred]

The game does not follow the same course if such occurrences were given.
It enters into a completely different space-time.
For example if we were given a penalty after the VvD foul then the ball goes to the penalty spot, and we may or may not score and everything that follows will be completely different as opposed to an Everton free kick for offside.

[justme]

People are still complaining about offside decisions, that was one area it was suppose to solve.

Actually i think theres been way more questionable calls from replays than actual calls in play. Prior to VAR i cant really recall many bad offside decisions. Your bound get some here and there. Now its a lottery

[Nineteenx]

I didn't mind the offsides or VAR for the first 3 quarters of last season, they were the same for everyone and on pens a red cards and stuff they were spot on, it was the last quarter of last season they started with the pure bent decisions trying to normalise that

Quite sure the FA had stated the offsides this season weren't going to be done by mm anymore too, so their Mane allegations of 1mm offside when they blew the image up to 10x lifesize was pure bs he was never offside

[Nineteenx]

Ok they haven't introduced it yet, to prevent armpit and 1mm offsides they were supposed to be making 'the line' thicker, just use a thin line and do it by the players foot positions ffs

[Nineteenx]

The really dodgy bit that seems to be handing broadcasters power over proceedings and taking it away from match officials ability to use their monitor is this

"Only one TV signal required for a VAR only review'

Sounds incredibly suspect to me

[Nineteenx]

Was on Blue Moon earlier today. They are convinced that VAR is there to help Liverpool and Utd to win the league.
They obviously haven't seen our last two PL games, lolzers...

Wtf? The FA and refs association has been trying to stitch us up all season, the only wrong un to the same level they've had was the ref not awarding Arsenal a pen for Walker's foot head high challenge if one of our players did that they'd instantly award a pen, they've already given 2 pens against us that weren't

You can however see their point with the filthy, we're practically back in Whiskey face territory where Ole can instruct his players to throw themselves to ground in the box and their boys in the Stockley VAR hub will make sure a pen is given, that's the only reason they're in this season's Champions League

Richard Scudamore shortly after stepping down as CEO of the Premier League "When Manchester United do well, we all do well" you can see the inherent pro filthy straight from the Whiskey face and Murdoch playbook bias that's been rife for the last 30 years running through the Premier League football association and refs association right there

[Nineteenx]

It's important clubs get together and take these serious grounds for concern to UEFA and FIFA and ask them to investigate, we CAN NOT allow these continuing attempts to normalise pure bent and corrupt VAR decisions to become normalised or accepted as we did Fergie time and all the other bent officiating they were the beneficiaries of during his time there a Gill's time balls deep in the refs association when if a ref made a correct fair and honest decision Whiskey face didn't like he could openly say what he wanted about it and Gill and Riley would then ensure that ref was relegated to the Championship or League 1 for a number of games

[dicko1969]

Var doesn't need binning.

Just needs to be clear.

Offside from the armpit.

Then the ref on the pitch makes a final decision by looking at the screen on the halfway line if it is a 50/50 call.

If it is obvious call then ok ... VAR decides that.

But something not clear cut the ref gets the eyes of VAR

[justme]

Fecking hell, Pickford gets away with a red card and not even a booking.. Now Digne as had his red card over turned.

[skyebo]

Fecking hell, Pickford gets away with a red card and not even a booking.. Now Digne as had his red card over turned.

I've seen many worse tackles than Digne's that went unpunished. I don't know who called it at the time, but to me they finally got it right. I think his attempt was more clumsy than vicious, unlike Pickford the week before.

[justme]

I honestly get that. But they intervened and changed the outcome after an official made an error.Why didnt they do the same with Pickford?

[skyebo]

I honestly get that. But they intervened and changed the outcome after an official made an error.Why didnt they do the same with Pickford?

No idea, and while they continue with these inconsistencies, it's making a mockery of the game.

[Nineteenx]

Fecking hell, Pickford gets away with a red card and not even a booking.. Now Digne as had his red card over turned.

It's their reward from the FA for Prickford nobbling big Virgil, somewhat surprising as upholding it would have ruled him out of their game v the filthy

[Nineteenx]

I honestly get that. But they intervened and changed the outcome after an official made an error.Why didnt they do the same with Pickford?

Because what they did against us wasn't an error it was a blatant stitch up and retrospectively punishing Prickford would have been an admission of that

[redebreck]

Fecking hell, Pickford gets away with a red card and not even a booking.. Now Digne as had his red card over turned.


I've seen many worse tackles than Digne's that went unpunished. I don't know who called it at the time, but to me they finally got it right. I think his attempt was more clumsy than vicious, unlike Pickford the week before.

which one, the first or second trip?


No idea, and while they continue with these inconsistencies, it's making a mockery of the game.

I'm losing my love of football with all the dishonesty going on in the game, TBH.

[Nineteenx]

1 Liverpool P7 W6 D0 L1 GF18 GA14 GD4 PTS18
3 Chelsea P7 W4 D2 L1 GF 17 GA9 GD5 PTS 14
4 Arsenal P7 W4 D2 L1 GF11 GA7 GD2 PTS14
8 Everton P7 W4 D0 L2 GF15 GA12 GD3 PTS12
12 Leicester P6 W3 D1 L2 GF13 GA9 GD4 PTS10
14 Man City P6 W2 D3 L1 GF 9 GA9 GD0 PTS9
16 Man UTD P6 W2 D0 L4 GF9 GA14 GD-5 PTS6

I amended Arsenal's result from their incorrectly disallowed goal v Leicester and put that as a draw, which is all I'm doing, I know the goals incorrectly ruled out or given would change the other sides approach and could make for a different result, in case of the Arsenal v Leicester, with how they have improved and are hard to break down, I think they'd have most likely picked up all 3 points had their goal not be wrongly ruled out, but I'm not doing what might have happened, just awarding goals wrongly ruled out or given against so Leicester are now included in the table

[skyebo]

1 Liverpool P7 W6 D0 L1 GF18 GA14 GD4 PTS18
3 Chelsea P7 W4 D2 L1 GF 17 GA9 GD5 PTS 14
4 Arsenal P7 W4 D2 L1 GF11 GA7 GD2 PTS14
8 Everton P7 W4 D0 L2 GF15 GA12 GD3 PTS12
12 Leicester P6 W3 D1 L2 GF13 GA9 GD4 PTS10
14 Man City P6 W2 D3 L1 GF 9 GA9 GD0 PTS9
16 Man UTD P6 W2 D0 L4 GF9 GA14 GD-5 PTS6

I amended Arsenal's result from their incorrectly disallowed goal v Leicester and put that as a draw, which is all I'm doing, I know the goals incorrectly ruled out or given would change the other sides approach and could make for a different result, in case of the Arsenal v Leicester, with how they have improved and are hard to break down, I think they'd have most likely picked up all 3 points had their goal not be wrongly ruled out, but I'm not doing what might have happened, just awarding goals wrongly ruled out or given against so Leicester are now included in the table

It's not much different to the real table.

[Balinkay]

It's not much different to the real table.

Not yet, sky. It's been 6 games. It likely (and hopefully) never will be.

I had this discussion with RC back in the day. The "swings and roundabouts" cliche makes a lot of sense - the larger the sample size the more accurate it's likely to be. However, I don't think the 38 games are always a large enough sample size to guarantee that. Especially when there are games that essentially mean six points in terms of the title race.

[skyebo]

Not yet, sky. It's been 6 games. It likely (and hopefully) never will be.

I had this discussion with RC back in the day. The "swings and roundabouts" cliche makes a lot of sense - the larger the sample size the more accurate it's likely to be. However, I don't think the 38 games are always a large enough sample size to guarantee that. Especially when there are games that essentially mean six points in terms of the title race.
were
It is what it is, we started with 42 games, then 40, now it's 38. Over a period of a season, the best team will always win the title. How else can you gauge it ? I bet the best team won it when we were dominating the 80s. Strange how fans thought we got lucky with decisions,penalties and late goals back then.

[justme]

I hope Nineteenx obsession doesn't last all season. This thread could get very boring. if it isn't all really

[skyebo]

I hope Nineteenx obsession doesn't last all season. This thread could get very boring. if it isn't all really

We could have got lucky with some of our title wins, as it's 30 years and more it's impossible to study isolated incidents from so far back. It's hard to win any league, but it's totally deserved whoever wins it.

[Balinkay]

What does best mean, sky? We define the best team in the land as the team that wins the league. You can't then turn around and say that the best team always wins the league - that's a circular definition.

But you are right - you can't and shouldn't gauge it any other way. These are the rules of the sport, this is what we've agreed upon. Like it or loathe it. I personally quite like it. But I suspect you are using the word in two different meanings in your sentence, though I'm not sure that matters right now.

However, I am sure you'll agree that bogus decisions can influence the outcome of a single game, right? If that's the case, imagine a two team league. They play one single game on a neutral venue. Then, by definition, the outcome of that league would be influenced by bad refereeing decisions. So that league can be swayed by refs mucking up. Can a two team league with two games be swayed? Can a three team league? Clearly (assuming no agenda on the officials' part) as the number of teams and games approach infinity the likelihood of the outcome of the league being influenced by bad decisions approaches 0. What I'm saying is that 20 teams is too small a sample size to say that that likelihood is negligible. It's a lot smaller than it is in a two team league, but it's still not small enough to completely discount imo.

Hard to say at what point it would be negligible - maybe a league with 1000 teams, I don't know. It's also a bit subjective. I'm very much inclined to agree with you that "the best" (and this is now using the word in a different sense to what I outlined in the first paragraph) wins the league almost always. But I must leave that space for the unlikely event of refs mucking up enough to ensure that a different team that's just a tiny bit worse (say all things being equal a team that's expected to win one point fewer) manages to leapfrog them.

[skyebo]

What does best mean, sky? We define the best team in the land as the team that wins the league. You can't then turn around and say that the best team always wins the league - that's a circular definition.

But you are right - you can't and shouldn't gauge it any other way. These are the rules of the sport, this is what we've agreed upon. Like it or loathe it. I personally quite like it. But I suspect you are using the word in two different meanings in your sentence, though I'm not sure that matters right now.

However, I am sure you'll agree that bogus decisions can influence the outcome of a single game, right? If that's the case, imagine a two team league. They play one single game on a neutral venue. Then, by definition, the outcome of that league would be influenced by bad refereeing decisions. So that league can be swayed by refs mucking up. Can a two team league with two games be swayed? Can a three team league? Clearly (assuming no agenda on the officials' part) as the number of teams and games approach infinity the likelihood of the outcome of the league being influenced by bad decisions approaches 0. What I'm saying is that 20 teams is too small a sample size to say that that likelihood is negligible. It's a lot smaller than it is in a two team league, but it's still not small enough to completely discount imo.

Hard to say at what point it would be negligible - maybe a league with 1000 teams, I don't know. It's also a bit subjective. I'm very much inclined to agree with you that "the best" (and this is now using the word in a different sense to what I outlined in the first paragraph) wins the league almost always. But I must leave that space for the unlikely event of refs mucking up enough to ensure that a different team that's just a tiny bit worse manages to leapfrog them.

The best meaning gaining more points than the rest. You can get lucky over a few games, we were very lucky in all 3 cup finals in 2001. Yes bogus decisions can have an influence, but certainly not over the majority of games in a 38 game season. The league was always our priority and it still is, that's because you've proved to be the best over a long season. The best teams don't always win cups, but they always win the title.

[CCTV]

were
It is what it is, we started with 42 games, then 40, now it's 38. Over a period of a season, the best team will always win the title. How else can you gauge it ? I bet the best team won it when we were dominating the 80s. Strange how fans thought we got lucky with decisions,penalties and late goals back then.

Iirc in both 13/14 offside goal and 18/19 kompany red card, games v city and wrong calls in them were alleged to have robbed us of the title.
In tight races wrong calls could be said to play a part between 2 or 3 best teams.

This season iirc in the game v arsenal in the pl Arsenal fans claimed Mane should have seen a red card. Can't remember the tackle too well so can't say whether it was a fair claim or not.

Were he sent off he misses 3 games. He scores v Everton and Sheffield united so how could you correct the table were he suspended.
Same with a second yellow card tackle, a huge amount of unknowable and opinions as yellows can be dished out easily enough.

I think we can moan about decisions but the lads have to be that good that they seal the deal and make refs inconsequential.
It's a tough task but that's the challenge for the best. Lucky for us the get on with it mostly and hopefully they start getting on it from the off.

[skyebo]

Iirc in both 13/14 offside goal and 18/19 kompany red card, games v city and wrong calls in them were alleged to have robbed us of the title.
In tight races wrong calls could be said to play a part between 2 or 3 best teams.

This season iirc in the game v arsenal in the pl Arsenal fans claimed Mane should have seen a red card. Can't remember the tackle too well so can't say whether it was a fair claim or not.

Were he sent off he misses 3 games. He scores v Everton and Sheffield united so how could you correct the table were he suspended.
Same with a second yellow card tackle, a huge amount of unknowable and opinions as yellows can be dished out easily enough.

I think we can moan about decisions but the lads have to be that good that they seal the deal and make refs inconsequential.
It's a tough task but that's the challenge for the best. Lucky for us the get on with it mostly and hopefully they start getting on it from the off.

Having a team that couldn't defend stopped us in 2013-14, you can point to certain instances, but the bad defending was right through the season, and most of Rodgers time here. It's no coincidence we win the title after spending big on a world class keeper and defender.

[Balinkay]

The best meaning gaining more points than the rest. You can get lucky over a few games, we were very lucky in all 3 cup finals in 2001. Yes bogus decisions can have an influence, but certainly not over the majority of games in a 38 game season. The league was always our priority and it still is, that's because you've proved to be the best over a long season. The best teams don't always win cups, but they always win the title.

They don't have to have an influence over the majority of 38 games, sky. Just in one or two. When a league can be one by a point or by one unit of goal difference, that's all it takes.

And like I said, you can't define "best" as the team winning the league and then say the best team always wins the league. If you are using "best" to mean the same thing you explained in your first sentence, then the statement "the best teams win the title" is a meaningless tautology. That's why I think you're using the word in two different meanings.

[skyebo]

They don't have to have an influence over the majority of 38 games, sky. Just in one or two. When a league can be one by a point or by one unit of goal difference, that's all it takes.

And like I said, you can't define "best" as the team winning the league and then say the best team always wins the league. If you are using "best" to mean the same thing you explained in your first sentence, then the statement "the best teams win the title" is a meaningless tautology. That's why I think you're using the word in two different meanings.

I don't really know what you're getting at. i know i have explained it best i can. I cannot put it any other way.

[skyebo]

If we win the league this season, and along the way we are helped by certain decisions from the officials, would it get a mention on here? No, is the answer, we were the best team overall and deserved it.

[Balinkay]

I don't really know what you're getting at. i know i have explained it best i can. I cannot put it any other way.

I understand, sky - I'm merely disagreeing that decisions can't influence the outcome of leagues. I agree it's very unlikely, but don't think it impossible unlike you. It's not a huge distinction.

[CCTV]

I don't really know what you're getting at. i know i have explained it best i can. I cannot put it any other way.

Hes just saying that what you are saying is circular.
The best team wins the league = the team that wins the league wins the league = the best team is the best team

I agree with you it's impossible to fathom an unrealised reality, if Mane deserved red how do you judge us playing without him for the next 3 games.

But in a tight title race you can say that fine margins of chance/luck from refs can cost one team or another.

[Nineteenx]

1 Liverpool P7 W6 D0 L1 GF18 GA14 GD4 PTS18
3 Chelsea P7 W4 D2 L1 GF 17 GA9 GD5 PTS 14
4 Arsenal P7 W4 D2 L1 GF11 GA7 GD2 PTS14
7 Leicester P7 W4 D1 L2 GF17 GA10 GD7 PTS13
8 Everton P7 W4 D0 L2 GF15 GA12 GD3 PTS12
14 Man City P6 W2 D3 L1 GF 9 GA9 GD0 PTS9
16 Man UTD P6 W2 D0 L4 GF9 GA14 GD-5 PTS6

[Nineteenx]

Still top

1 Liverpool P8 W6 D1 L1 GF19 GA15 GD4 PTS19
3 Chelsea P8 W5 D2 L1 GF 21 GA10 GD5 PTS 17
4 Leicester P8 W5 D1 L2 GF18 GA10 GD7 PTS16
6 Arsenal P7 W4 D2 L1 GF11 GA7 GD2 PTS14
8 Everton P8 W4 D0 L4 GF16 GA15 GD1 PTS12
14 Man City P7 W2 D4 L1 GF 10 GA10 GD0 PTS10
16 Man UTD P7 W3 D0 L4 GF12 GA15 GD-3 PTS9

[miller0863]

Shock ....

VAR overturns (net score)

Everton +3
Sheffield United +3
Southampton +2
Arsenal +1
Aston Villa +1
Leicester +1
Man City +1
Newcastle +1
West Ham +1
Burnley 0
Crystal Palace 0
Wolves 0
Brighton -1
Chelsea -1
Leeds -1
Man United -1
West Brom -1
Fulham -2
Tottenham -3
Liverpool -4

[Balinkay]

I mean it's wrong decisions ostensibly made correct. Nothing we should be complaining about.

[miller0863]

Er.... have you been watching this season Bali? Countless incorrect VAR decisions and we haven’t been excluded from that club either

[Balinkay]

Hey, I said "ostensibly"! :D

I know what you mean, I just don't get the point of these charts - might as well have one where they say "if refs weren't allowed to leave the centre circle", no?

There are issues with VAR but I don't think these stats illustrate them particularly well.

[Nineteenx]

Still top

1 Liverpool P9 W7 D1 L1 GF22 GA15 GD7 PTS22
2 Chelsea P9 W6 D2 L1 GF 23 GA10 GD13 PTS 20
4 Leicester P9 W5 D1 L3 GF18 GA13 GD5 PTS16
8 Everton P9 W5 D0 L4 GF19 GA16 GD3 PTS15
9 Arsenal P9 W4 D3 L2 GF11 GA7 GD2 PTS15
13 Man UTD P8 W4 D0 L4 GF13 GA15 GD-2 PTS12
15 Man City P8 W2 D4 L2 GF 10 GA12 GD-2 PTS10

[Nineteenx]

Extended our lead to 5 points today

1 Liverpool P10 W8 D1 L1 GF23 GA15 GD8 PTS25
2 Chelsea P9 W6 D2 L1 GF 23 GA10 GD13 PTS 20
4 Leicester P9 W5 D1 L3 GF18 GA13 GD5 PTS16
8 Everton P9 W5 D0 L4 GF19 GA16 GD3 PTS15
9 Arsenal P9 W4 D3 L2 GF11 GA7 GD2 PTS15
13 Man UTD P8 W4 D0 L4 GF13 GA15 GD-2 PTS12
15 Man City P8 W2 D4 L2 GF 10 GA12 GD-2 PTS10

[justme]

well this league table is gonna make a massive difference to reality NOT..

[justme]

former Premier League referee reckons Stuart Attwell was “told what to do” when he awarded Brighton & Hove Albion a penalty against Liverpool on Saturday and believes the match official broke protocol in coming to his reversed decision.

When Reds left-back Andy Robertson challenged Danny Welbeck, Mr Attwell did not see a foul but was then invited over to view a pitchside monitor as part of a VAR review which resulted in him pointing to the spot and the home side netting a stoppage time equaliser through Pascal Gross.

Mark Halsey, 59, who was a Premier League referee between 1999-2013, didn’t like what he saw at the Amex Stadium though.

He told This Is Futbol : “I keep stressing that we need to hear the conversations that are going on between the referee and VAR.

“It educates everybody what exactly is going on, what is being said.

“They’ve got nothing to hide, let us hear what the conversation that is going on between Stockley Park and the match official – just like we hear in cricket, we hear in rugby.

[Kev0909]

I'm sure this won't be biased at all

[dicko1969]

Yes should hear what is said.
To make it clear and obvious

[Nineteenx]

Yes should hear what is said.
To make it clear and obvious

Agree you absolutely should hear it as in Rugby and cricket

I noted tonight in PSG´s trouncing of the filthy that for their second goal the new guidelines of a thicker line and not doing the milimetres, or .000001 milimetre after blowing the image up to 10x lifesize if it's our player nonsense was in effect

[Joetan991]

VAR is very unfair to the attacking team like us or Man City, there is no margin at all, counted by 0.00000001mm off side.

Very funny, Very rigid, Very British, killing the game softly.

[Nineteenx]

I'm sacking the goal difference off, can't be bothered keeping up with it

1 Liverpool P12 W9 D2 L1 PTS29
2 Chelsea P12 W8 D2 L2 PTS 26
3 Tottenham P12 W7 D4 L1 PTS 25
5 Leicester P12 W7 D1 L4 PTS22
8 Man UTD P11 W6 D1 L4 PTS19
11 Man City P11 W4 D5 L2 PTS17

[Taksin]

can you explain your reasoning?

[CCTV]

Didn't see the game yesterday, redmentv were saying we were lucky to get a draw as iirc Fabinho probably should have conceded a penalty.

[Nineteenx]

can you explain your reasoning?

I have earlier, obviously all about points gained or dropped as a result of clearly wrong VAR decisions, all by the odd goal

Chelsea were robbed a couple of times as were we, Spurs neither either way, the rest have gained points from VAR

[skyebo]

Didn't see the game yesterday, redmentv were saying we were lucky to get a draw as iirc Fabinho probably should have conceded a penalty.

i didn't see it live, only later on SSN. It could have gone either way really. It worked for us then.

[Steveo]

Yep I think on probability of decision - it was 50/50 a pen.

It was 100% a pen in reality however. Fab catches player before ball.

Probably halves our VAR points loss.

[Kev0909]

Yep I think on probability of decision - it was 50/50 a pen.

It was 100% a pen in reality however. Fab catches player before ball.

Probably halves our VAR points loss.

Don't be sorry, they're all out to get us :glee:

[miller0863]

The ref didn’t change his decision based on VAR yesterday, said it wasn’t a penalty in real time and confirmed that after looking at the pitch side screen.
So VAR had nothing to do with the decision

[Nineteenx]

The ref didn’t change his decision based on VAR yesterday, said it wasn’t a penalty in real time and confirmed that after looking at the pitch side screen.
So VAR had nothing to do with the decision

That's right and there was also the accidental tangle of legs with Mane which would usually be reviewed and given, that was more of a pen for me

[Steveo]

The ref didn’t change his decision based on VAR yesterday, said it wasn’t a penalty in real time and confirmed that after looking at the pitch side screen.
So VAR had nothing to do with the decision

He went to the side of the pitch and looked at a video replay didn’t he.?

[Steveo]

That's right and there was also the accidental tangle of legs with Mane which would usually be reviewed and given, that was more of a pen for me

Yep - and Fulham’s number 11 let one go during one of our attacks .....which distracted Bobby during a build up.....which stopped Mané getting the ball a fraction of a second earlier.....which meant his ball to Salah was the tiniest bit slower than it would have been.....and he missed!

That should have been reviewed too. :D

There does seem to be a trend towards whinging at every reviewed decision this season as we have become far less imperious.

We haven’t been that great - at least not consistently - for nearly a year ( well since The Watford game last season ) and it is clearly affecting some on here: BUT it has NOTHING to do with fatigue.. :D honest.

Yes we have had some poor VAR calls - and IMO if the ref looks at a video replay to confirm or change any real-time decision ( he isn’t sure ) then video is the key component in the final decision. But last season we benefitted plenty of times and nobody was interested in a VAR honesty table then.

Fulham should have had a penalty based on Fabinho’s challenge. Video replay was used to determine yes or no - and it was misinterpreted pitch side.

It really is that simple for me.

[miller0863]

He did go to the pitch side monitor but stuck to his original decision of no penalty

[Steveo]

Yes - I get that and technically yes - the VAR ref wasn't used other than to suggest a second look - but the decision was reached by the ref on the pitch using video assisted replay.. Same technology just a different human making the call. For me whether he changes his decision or not is immaterial - he is looking multiple times and in slow mo and STILL probably got it wrong. If we are honest - Fab takes the geezers foot first

[Steveo]

That challenge seems to have split pundits too - Souness believes it is a pen - Jenas - who believes it was 'technically a pen' doesn't want to see games refereed like that....? WTF... I actually agree with him as long as it is consistent.

If we look that closely at every challenge we will never get a passage of play going before a VAR call. However - and this is the crux of the problem - certain VAR calls are looked at in minute detail - replayed 20 times in slow mo to see IF a players Sleeve is 0.1mm ahead of another players shorts... Or IF a player just clips another before a dive/fall/trip etc.

[Taksin]

I have earlier, obviously all about points gained or dropped as a result of clearly wrong VAR decisions, all by the odd goal



If you could make a note of which decisions you have overturned when you put up your new figures for the league table, that would make it more interesting.

[redebreck]

That challenge seems to have split pundits too - Souness believes it is a pen - Jenas - who believes it was 'technically a pen' doesn't want to see games refereed like that....? WTF... I actually agree with him as long as it is consistent.

If we look that closely at every challenge we will never get a passage of play going before a VAR call. However - and this is the crux of the problem - certain VAR calls are looked at in minute detail - replayed 20 times in slow mo to see IF a players Sleeve is 0.1mm ahead of another players shorts... Or IF a player just clips another before a dive/fall/trip etc.

Consistency.
That's the biggest issue, and the problem with referees/assistants/VAR people in the premiership.
If that was sorted, we'd all be over the moon.

[Taksin]

Did we not miss out on two hand ball VAR penalties tonight?

[Balinkay]

Did we not miss out on two hand ball VAR penalties tonight?

Did we?

I can only think of the Dier one? That's given at OT, but I don't think it's a pen. He can't do anything else with his arm at that point and I'm not even sure it hits him below the shirt line.

[Nineteenx]

SIX points clear FOURTEEN clear of UAE FC already although they do have a game in hand

1 Liverpool P13 W10 D2 L1 PTS32
2 Chelsea P13 W8 D2 L3 PTS 26
3 Tottenham P13 W7 D4 L2 PTS 25
5 Leicester P13 W7 D1 L5 PTS22
8 Man UTD P11 W6 D1 L4 PTS19
11 Man City P12 W4 D6 L2 PTS18

[Kev0909]

Did we?

I can only think of the Dier one? That's given at OT, but I don't think it's a pen. He can't do anything else with his arm at that point and I'm not even sure it hits him below the shirt line.

Some fans want us to become the new UTD I think and win every game via a dodgy penalty

[Taksin]

Did we?

I can only think of the Dier one? That's given at OT, but I don't think it's a pen. He can't do anything else with his arm at that point and I'm not even sure it hits him below the shirt line.

They didn't even have a look at it. Does someone have to make an appeal for him to look at it or what?

there was anther shot from the edge of the box, can't remember who but I think it as Salah and it was rising into the arm that was held down, which sort of broke the shot. Neither were pens in the olden days but both looked inescapable to me under current rules.

[miller0863]

I was more annoyed by the fact Son was offside yet their goal stood, even though VAR looked at it

[RedNoodle]

I was more annoyed by the fact Son was offside yet their goal stood, even though VAR looked at it

It looked offside to me at the time, and it looks even more offside upon seeing a still frame of the moment the ball was played.

[Steveo]

It looks offside because he is offside.

Really scratching my head here - HOW can that be given..?

[justme]

If its a toe onside. where does the armpit come in to the equation? its all nonsense. Anyway looked offside

[RedNoodle]

If its a toe onside. where does the armpit come in to the equation? its all nonsense. Anyway looked offside

It only comes into the equation if it involves us/Firmino.

[Balinkay]

Not sure on the offside on in all honesty. Have too look at it again. In the frame they chose he looks marginally on to me.

Re pens: No idea. I guess they took a glancing look at it and decided it wasn't worth a prolonged analysis. I can't remember the second incident to which you referred @Taks. Will have to look at the highlights later.

[Steveo]

It was actually onside - in terms of what should be the case - BUT in terms of how VAR was used to rule out Hendo’s goal v the BS it is offside.

I mean they can’t say Mané is off but Son is on. If Mané is off Son is more off surely...?

https://i.ibb.co/rmWJ2qP/BB43-C150-BF10-4-F74-BD83-5-A1602554-B00.jpg

[Balinkay]

The thing with Manè's one is that they take the very last pixel of his sleeve's white end to determine his position. And that one is behind the defender's (looks like it at least). With Son his foot is the body part farthest forward so there's no such confusion.

[ianlfc]

The thing with Manè's one is that they take the very last pixel of his sleeve's white end to determine his position. And that one is behind the defender's (looks like it at least). With Son his foot is the body part farthest forward so there's no such confusion.

They spent about 5 minutes trying to prove Mane was offside ,last night it was done and dusted with on frame show 1 line. To the viewer on TV it was very inconclusive .

[Balinkay]

They spent about 5 minutes trying to prove Mane was offside ,last night it was done and dusted with on frame show 1 line. To the viewer on TV it was very inconclusive .

Yes, it was weird, but at the end of the day what does it matter if it's the right decision.

[ianlfc]

Yes, it was weird, but at the end of the day what does it matter if it's the right decision.

But is it 100% the correct decision every time thats the biggest problem. A little different but last season I think it was Sheffield United had a ball over the line but the referees watch didn't buzz so we all thought it wasn't a goal. Then it turned out the technology wasn't switched on and a goal should've been given.
So even with technology the correct decision isn't always made and I feel this season especially with us thats been the case.
Saying all that we're still top of the league so no point dwelling on things but we could be in a even better position.

[Joetan991]

If Mane was offside by mm, no way Son one can be onside.

It is getting fishy, guess they do not want to repeat title holder.

[ianlfc]

If Mane was offside by mm, no way Son one can be onside.

It is getting fishy, guess they do not want to repeat title holder.

I don't Buy into that mate, I just find their inconsistency the problem.

[justincredible]

It was actually onside - in terms of what should be the case - BUT in terms of how VAR was used to rule out Hendo’s goal v the BS it is offside.

I mean they can’t say Mané is off but Son is on. If Mané is off Son is more off surely...?

https://i.ibb.co/rmWJ2qP/BB43-C150-BF10-4-F74-BD83-5-A1602554-B00.jpg

Exactly Steveo.
Another poor decision by VAR for Son's goal. The VAR official froze the picture a frame too early. The ball was still in contact with the player's foot as it was on the halfway line, so why did VAR freeze it a foot before that? The answer is obvious. He wanted the goal to stand. By the next frame Son is a foot offside, not an armpit hair. That's why it looked offside in real time.
Something smells fishy about these decisions.

[Balinkay]

That's an excellent point, justin. I thought about it too yesterday - it's extremely difficult to tell in which frame the ball leaves the attacker's foot though, as in a single frame it can move a long way and the picture won't be ultra high definition.

[ianlfc]

That's an excellent point, justin. I thought about it too yesterday - it's extremely difficult to tell in which frame the ball leaves the attacker's foot though, as in a single frame it can move a long way and the picture won't be ultra high definition.

That's been a major factor since its been brought in. When is the pass ? From when he first goes to pass or when the ball leaves the foot ? When we're talking mm's it makes all the difference.
It always seems we're on the wrong side.

[Balinkay]

It's when the ball leaves the foot afaik.

[Balinkay]

But is it 100% the correct decision every time thats the biggest problem. A little different but last season I think it was Sheffield United had a ball over the line but the referees watch didn't buzz so we all thought it wasn't a goal. Then it turned out the technology wasn't switched on and a goal should've been given.
So even with technology the correct decision isn't always made and I feel this season especially with us thats been the case.
Saying all that we're still top of the league so no point dwelling on things but we could be in a even better position.

There's always going to be a level of abstraction between what really happened and what can be judged. You have the same with human-only refs. As long as we all agree on the single source of truth (and what mechanisms are in place to tests its accuracy), we're fine, even if that source of trutj sometimes fails as in the example you described.

[Taksin]

That's it. The ball leaving the foot is the issue. And it shows that two things happening at once is too complex for the system to cope with. We imagine the computer will do away with these problems and herald pure objectivity but we are still left with the frailty of human judgement.

I'd go back to a linesman's judgement any day. Remember they tried the 'benefit of the doubt to the attacking side'. That was an excellent way of moving things slightly in terms of the instruction to the linesman, improving the decisions slightly, without undermining the fairness of the game.

The fairness was, practically, that sometimes they'll get it wrong but at least we don't have to pretend the decision was pure objectivity.

[Balinkay]

I don't feel we need to pretend the decision is pure objectivity right now. Or that it exactly mirrors reality.

Why should it when that's clearly not (and never was going to be) the case?

[Steveo]

It is nearly 2021.

Players should all have a GPS tracker inside their shirt badge.

Audio can easily be used to detect the moment a ball is played - if attackers GPS signal is more advanced than the last defenders at the time of pass/audible ball strike....then player is offside - if the attackers GPS signal is behind the defenders he is onside..

No multiple replays needed - no mass delay and a simple clear rule. Forget sleeves or toes... Hawkeye for offside

[Taksin]

I don't feel we need to pretend the decision is pure objectivity right now. Or that it exactly mirrors reality.

Why should it when that's clearly not (and never was going to be) the case?

We have given up a lot to introduce these measures and they clearly don't make anyone feel the decisions have improved overall. The only reason to make those sacrifices would be to hand over the subjective decision making of the officials to the objective perception of the computers. If that reasoning doesn't stand up to the reality, then we have lost a lot for nothing.

But there's always the promise of things improving. So it will never be reversed now. Much like lockdowns and tiers. Those in power love to feel they are fixing the problem, even if they aren't.

[miller0863]

Certainly needs to take the human error out of it Steveo or it’s absolutely pointless.
If they could work something akin to your suggestion, it becomes similar to goal line technology and no disputing the decision. There has only been one incident I can recall where goal line technology failed to get it right and absolutely hundreds of examples where VAR get it wrong.

Never mind the offsides, it’s the same with penalties. How was Brighton’s penalty given yet the Newcastle one last night not given?
It should just be for offsides with a system development which is similar to goal line technology or scrap it altogether.
It’s an absolute mess.

[justincredible]

It's a pity the fans haven't been allowed in grounds since the Covid situation as a fan boycott of games, even for one weekend would make these clowns in control take notice.

[Insidious]

Know it is a touch off-topic, but does anyone know how many League goals we have conceded since the Van Dijk injury?

My working thinks it's 9 which could of course be wrong.

[justincredible]

Know it is a touch off-topic, but does anyone know how many League goals we have conceded since the Van Dijk injury?

My working thinks it's 9 which could of course be wrong.

Since the Everton game 6 PL goals conceded. Plus 3 goals conceded in the Champions League.

[Nineteenx]

Exactly Steveo.
Another poor decision by VAR for Son's goal. The VAR official froze the picture a frame too early. The ball was still in contact with the player's foot as it was on the halfway line, so why did VAR freeze it a foot before that? The answer is obvious. He wanted the goal to stand. By the next frame Son is a foot offside, not an armpit hair. That's why it looked offside in real time.
Something smells fishy about these decisions.

Absolutely agree Justin, Son was offside 100% Steeveo's image is indeed frozen a frame early before the ball has left LoCelso's foot, there were 2 handball penalties as the rules are supposed to be being applied and have been being applied we weren't given also

[Nineteenx]

SIX points clear FOURTEEN clear of UAE FC already although they do have a game in hand

1 Liverpool P13 W10 D2 L1 PTS32
2 Chelsea P13 W8 D2 L3 PTS 26
3 Tottenham P13 W7 D4 L2 PTS 25
5 Leicester P13 W7 D1 L5 PTS22
8 Man UTD P11 W6 D1 L4 PTS19
11 Man City P12 W4 D6 L2 PTS18

With all our injury and fatigue issues and we're STILL 6 points clear and fourteen ahead of UAE FC

[Taksin]

there were 2 handball penalties

Has anyone got a link to the second one?

They did replay it once if I remember right

[Nineteenx]

It was actually onside - in terms of what should be the case - BUT in terms of how VAR was used to rule out Hendo’s goal v the BS it is offside.

I mean they can’t say Mané is off but Son is on. If Mané is off Son is more off surely...?

https://i.ibb.co/rmWJ2qP/BB43-C150-BF10-4-F74-BD83-5-A1602554-B00.jpg

The image of Son itself tells the story of misused VAR, Son's very clearly still looking waiting for the ball to be passed at the frame they have stopped it, because, at that point the ball hadn't been passed, it hadn't left Lo Celso's boot, at the point Lo Celso played it, the frame would show Son's head in a position in which it was turning towards our goal to some degree, not looking back waiting for the pass

[Nineteenx]

I'll update it later, but we should be 7 points clear on 37 pts, Chelsea second on 30 the filthy third on 29 pts

[Taksin]

Did anyone think VAR would have judged Sadio to have been obstructed by the goalie last night?

[Steveo]

Did anyone think VAR would have judged Sadio to have been obstructed by the goalie last night?

For me absolutely - obviously depends on the guy/gal reviewing BUT Rashford or Salah go down and get a penalty - possibly twice. Mané was too honest and focussed on the ball.

We are a nice side - we don’t appeal for these things very often - think that is why Salah gets the rep.. He does go down easy but the rest - they need to be shot before they go to ground.

[Balinkay]

He should have gone down. Players are forced to do that whnever they've been impeded, otherwise they get no decisions whatsoever.

[Taksin]

How do you get a VAR review in that situation? Does he have to go down and make an appeal, will an appeal from the captain do or is it a subjective decision from the ref?

I actually thought he did fall down from the genuine obstruction but just didn't scream like a little girl.

[Balinkay]

He should have screamed like a little girl to alert the ref to the fact that there was a decision to be made. If he says peno -> VAR has to review it, if not, VAR still takes a look as it's a major incident which the ref has seen... I guess.

[Nineteenx]

Did anyone think VAR would have judged Sadio to have been obstructed by the goalie last night?

It should have been a pen, their keeper hooked Mane's leg with his arm ti stop him getting to his parry before their defender, WBA's goal was a blatant foull on Fab too, it's making a mockery of the prem now, as it's clearly bent as fuck, corrupt

[justme]

The officials have decided that LFC are not gonna get 60/40 calls..Its a mind set they have and its corrupt. Its back to the days before VAR. we were often at the bottom of the list when it came to correct decision making.
Anyone who thinks from here on in. things will improve for us. regarding decisions on the field and in the VAR box. Its not. we are going to have to win games all by ourselves. just ignore the obvious mistakes from officials.
10000000000000% last evening the penalty awarded to man-united would have been overturned if it had been us.

[Nineteenx]

The officials have decided that LFC are not gonna get 60/40 calls..Its a mind set they have and its corrupt. Its back to the days before VAR. we were often at the bottom of the list when it came to correct decision making.
Anyone who thinks from here on in. things will improve for us. regarding decisions on the field and in the VAR box. Its not. we are going to have to win games all by ourselves. just ignore the obvious mistakes from officials.
10000000000000% last evening the penalty awarded to man-united would have been overturned if it had been us.

60/40? Are you having a laugh? It has been corrupt beyond belief, every big decision in our games they have given 100% against us, they are constantly looking to review nothing incidents and taking 3 or 4 minutes looking at such incidents no doubt deliberating if they can give another plain wrong decision against us and get away with it and not reviewing or bringing to the refs attention actual blatant errors they have missed in fouls against us

1. Chelsea pen
2. Prickford's challenge on Virgil
3. Mane offside also v bitters
4. Pen given against us v Brighton
5. Son offside v Spurs taking his position a frame early before the ball was passed
6. Clear foul on fab for WBA goal, climbing both arms practically around his neck pushing him down
7. Newcastle keeper fouling Mane hooking his leg with his arm to prevent him beating their defender to his parry

These weren't mistakes, just clear corrupt bias officiating and that list isn't exhaustive

[miller0863]

And yet whenever VAR comes into any social media/Twitter conversation all the other clubs’ fans come out en masse saying we have a cheek, LiVARpool, everyone knows etc etc

The jealousy and sheep mentality knows no bounds whatsoever

[RedNoodle]

And yet whenever VAR comes into any social media/Twitter conversation all the other clubs’ fans come out en masse saying we have a cheek, LiVARpool, everyone knows etc etc

The jealousy and sheep mentality knows no bounds whatsoever

When it comes to anything 'tribal' such as football, all common sense and a willingness to accept 'what is' rather than 'what you'd like' are often, if not usually two vastly different things.

[miller0863]

Aye

[justme]

Miller, indeed. other fans delight in us being robbed on purpose by the officials. But like last season when most things were correct and given that way by VAR its somehow in our favour.

[Taksin]

https://punditarena.com/football/jeff-simon/var-liverpool-premier-league-everton/

Figures highlight that Liverpool have been the worst affected team by VAR

[justme]

https://punditarena.com/football/jeff-simon/var-liverpool-premier-league-everton/

Figures highlight that Liverpool have been the worst affected team by VAR
Interesting read thanks.

[justme]

I read in Southampton/LFC match day thread. That Klopp is trying to be Fergie and get refs to give us calls.(correct ones) sadly its not going to work that way. We are just not going to get the decisions simple has that.. Refs and Vars people are not trustworthy
Take the incident on the touchline the saints player holding Salah down for at least 10 seconds.. The linesman looked straight at it and ignored it.. Its not a matter of a honest mistake. The official was cheating.
When we play Man-united the referee will be Atkinson and Var will be Taylor.you can almost guarantee that.. Of course we have been crap this season. But the foul on Mane was a penalty ..If you can give one for Bournemouth after the player dived after the contact. You can give us ONE surely??

[justincredible]

I read in Southampton/LFC match day thread. That Klopp is trying to be Fergie and get refs to give us calls.(correct ones) sadly its not going to work that way. We are just not going to get the decisions simple has that.. Refs and Vars people are not trustworthy
Take the incident on the touchline the saints player holding Salah down for at least 10 seconds.. The linesman looked straight at it and ignored it.. Its not a matter of a honest mistake. The official was cheating.
When we play Man-united the referee will be Atkinson and Var will be Taylor.you can almost guarantee that.. Of course we have been crap this season. But the foul on Mane was a penalty ..If you can give one for Bournemouth after the player dived after the contact. You can give us ONE surely??

I'm no conspiracy theorist but it's a sad state of affairs when an opposition player fouls a Liverpool player or handles the ball in the box that you don't even care whether VAR checks it or not. Because you now know it won't be given.
And let me tell you, mentality monsters or not, this will gravely affect Jurgen, the staff and the players.
Another team, on the other hand, are at the opposite end of this facade, and benefititng hugely.

[Nineteenx]

Updated table, not to mention results rigged by VAR having noticeably affected our form, but for VAR we'd be sitting 7 points clear right now, really hope they void this season, the incredible levels of corruptness of the VAR officiating has made the Premier League a complete farce

Even with injuries and simply disgraceful plain wrong decisions and the controversy of both having considerably dented our form from early season, the gulf in class between us and the filthy today was massive

1 Liverpool P18 W13 D4 L1 PTS43
2 Man UTD P18 W11 D3 L4 PTS36
3 Tottenham P18 W9 D6 L3 PTS 33
4 Leicester P18 W10 D3 L5 PTS 33
5 Chelsea P18 W10 D1 L5 PTS 31
6 Man City P16 W8 D6 L2 PTS 30

[Steveo]

Yet some say the table never lies..

[skyebo]

Yet some say the table never lies..

It doesn't.

[Nineteenx]

Yet some say the table never lies..

Yeah they're the same ones saying in the games in which we were robbed by VAR that we were poor etc, but, there were a few games last season we were well below our best, only won by the odd goal and had VAR been being applied as it has been this season, we'd have dropped points in.

[Nineteenx]

Updated table, not to mention results rigged by VAR having noticeably affected our form, but for VAR we'd be sitting 7 points clear right now, really hope they void this season, the incredible levels of corruptness of the VAR officiating has made the Premier League a complete farce

Even with injuries and simply disgraceful plain wrong decisions and the controversy of both having considerably dented our form from early season, the gulf in class between us and the filthy today was massive

1 Liverpool P18 W13 D4 L1 PTS43
2 Man UTD P18 W11 D3 L4 PTS36
3 Tottenham P18 W9 D6 L3 PTS 33
4 Leicester P18 W10 D3 L5 PTS 33
5 Chelsea P18 W10 D1 L5 PTS 31
6 Man City P16 W8 D6 L2 PTS 30

We'd also be on course for another 90 point haul but for fucking VAR and be playing with a lot more confidence and swagger

[Nineteenx]

Looking to extend our lead to 7 points again tomorrow v Burnley

1 Liverpool P18 W13 D4 L1 PTS43
2 Man UTD P19 W12 D3 L4 PTS39
3 Leicester P19 W11 D3 L5 PTS 36
4 Man City P18 W10 D6 L2 PTS 36
5 Tottenham P188 W9 D6 L3 PTS 33
6 Chelsea P19 W10 D1 L6 PTS 31

[CCTV]

Yet some say the table never lies..

Jeremy Skyebo !!

[Steveo]

Anyone get the impression the VAR adjusted table just might have been built but the same fella who made these chairs..?

https://i.ibb.co/V9yxDR6/78092141-2-AC4-4-D87-B5-AC-C5-E8-BD954-F14.jpg

:D :D

[RedNoodle]

Jeremy Skyebo !!

Don't you mean Jeremy Skyle?

[RedNoodle]

Those chairs are probably the newest piece of pretentious tat/modern art from the likes of Tracey Emin or Damien Hirst that will end up being sold for around £20m, which is about £19.999.999.99p more than it's actually worth.

[Nineteenx]

Anyone get the impression the VAR adjusted table just might have been built but the same fella who made these chairs..?

https://i.ibb.co/V9yxDR6/78092141-2-AC4-4-D87-B5-AC-C5-E8-BD954-F14.jpg

:D :D

Why's that Steveo? I was even giving the filthy 3 points when they were level at ht for their non pen that actually was a clear pen

Ours are

Everton +2
Brighton +2
WBA +2
Newcastle +2
Southampton +1 and that's very modest given there were 2 clear penalties for us as they have been awarded all season and they scored from a free kick when there was no foul

[Nineteenx]

Why's that Steveo? I was even giving the filthy 3 points when they were level at ht for their non pen that actually was a clear pen

Ours are

Everton +2
Brighton +2
WBA +2
Newcastle +2
Southampton +1 and that's very modest given there were 2 clear penalties for us as they have been awarded all season and they scored from a free kick when there was no foul

I think the only one that's even remotely debatable is maybe the Newcastle pen, their keeper is entitled to get up, is he really entitled to hook Mane's leg with his arm to prevent him getting to his parry before their defender and was that a natural movement in trying to get up? A categoric no from me on both counts, nailed on pen

If Big Bear did that or any other keeper in any game i'd expect a pen given and the keeper sent off and we've all seen them given, because it's the correct decision

[Steveo]

@ 19...Surely you have a sense of humour ...to go along with that sense of injustice?

[skyebo]

That table is nonsense anyway. Where is the proof that any of those were the wrong ones anyway? They may have been correct but people wearing LFC glasses won't see it that way because the whole world is against LFC and it will do anything to stop us winning games. What a load of tosh. Nineteen was totally for VAR from the start, i said to him, wait until a decision goes against us, you'll soon change your mind. He said he would accept it as VAR is a good thing. Since the Everton game he's spoke about little else, it seems VAR isn't as good as what he thought.

[Nineteenx]

That table is nonsense anyway. Where is the proof that any of those were the wrong ones anyway? They may have been correct but people wearing LFC glasses won't see it that way because the whole world is against LFC and it will do anything to stop us winning games. What a load of tosh. Nineteen was totally for VAR from the start, i said to him, wait until a decision goes against us, you'll soon change your mind. He said he would accept it as VAR is a good thing. Since the Everton game he's spoke about little else, it seems VAR isn't as good as what he thought.

Lmao Everton and Brighton speak for themselves

WBA VAR are supposed to check every goal, how can you honestly check their goal, see the scorer climb clearly fouling Fabinho with both arms practically around his neck and not call the foul? It's a clear and obvious given all day every day of the week foul for climbing

Newcastle i've covered

Southampton their lad catches Mane's leg as it's coming back when he's running, exactly the same as Villa's defender the night before on Pogba and several others, it's clumsy, unintentional but it's a pen and all the other exact same instances i've seen this season have been given

Handball, the ball hitting a players arm blocking a shot on target is a pen in all circumstances in the rules, it's a pen, you forgot UAE FC's pen for an attempted cross hitting Gomez's arm in his natural stride of running?

[skyebo]

Lmao Everton and Brighton speak for themselves

WBA VAR are supposed to check every goal, how can you honestly check their goal, see the scorer climb clearly fouling Fabinho with both arms practically around his neck and not call the foul? It's a clear and obvious given all day every day of the week foul for climbing

Newcastle i've covered

Southampton their lad catches Mane's leg as it's coming back when he's running, exactly the same as Villa's defender the night before on Pogba and several others, it's clumsy, unintentional but it's a pen and all the other exact same instances i've seen this season have been given

Handball, the ball hitting a players arm blocking a shot on target is a pen in all circumstances in the rules, it's a pen, you forgot UAE FC's pen for an attempted cross hitting Gomez's arm in his natural stride of running?

They are inconsistent, what one ref sees as a foul or whatever, another one won't. That will be the same when VAR get involved. I look at the players before anything else when results don't go our way, as i am not one who will blame officials. If we need VAR decisions to go our way just to beat the likes of Newcastle WBA and anyone else in the bottom half, then it's no wonder we are only 4th in the table.

[Nineteenx]

They are inconsistent, what one ref sees as a foul or whatever, another one won't. That will be the same when VAR get involved. I look at the players before anything else when results don't go our way, as i am not one who will blame officials. If we need VAR decisions to go our way just to beat the likes of Newcastle WBA and anyone else in the bottom half, then it's no wonder we are only 4th in the table.

It's not about VAR 'going our way' it's about it being applied honestly fairly and correctly and it hasn't been and there are no fucking excuses whatsoever for what they've been doing

Look at the Everton game for fucks sake, none of those incidents are open to interpretation, they are crystal clear from the replays, you can't sit there and look at those or any of the others and apply subjectivity as they are cut and dried, there's no subjectivity involved.

Listen to yourself, VAR, with replays saying Van Dijk was offside when every angle of every replay showed Calvert Lewin was playing him on by a yard, that's fucking subjective is it? Wake up man, we're being robbed fucking blind through deliberate calculated corrupt decision making

[Nineteenx]

Amazingly still top

1 Liverpool P19 W13 D4 L2 PTS43
2 Man UTD P19 W12 D3 L4 PTS39
3 Leicester P19 W11 D3 L5 PTS 36
4 Man City P18 W10 D6 L2 PTS 36
5 Tottenham P188 W9 D6 L3 PTS 33
6 Chelsea P19 W10 D1 L6 PTS 3

[TheDOC1979]

Amazingly still top

1 Liverpool P19 W13 D4 L2 PTS43
2 Man UTD P19 W12 D3 L4 PTS39
3 Leicester P19 W11 D3 L5 PTS 36
4 Man City P18 W10 D6 L2 PTS 36
5 Tottenham P188 W9 D6 L3 PTS 33
6 Chelsea P19 W10 D1 L6 PTS 3

You're beginning to sound like a man who doesn't want to believe his partner cheated on him. Give this absolutely ridiculous, shambles a rest.

Harsh reality mate, we're all coming to terms with it

[Nineteenx]

You're beginning to sound like a man who doesn't want to believe his partner cheated on him. Give this absolutely ridiculous, shambles a rest.

Harsh reality mate, we're all coming to terms with it

No i'll stick with it, it's onl adjusted for plain wrong decisions, for all teams, interested to see who comes out on top, it won't be us unless we get back to doing what made us Champions and ditch the tappy tappy overplaying crap and recover the relationships and automatic movement and interations too much tappy tappy overplaying and chopping and changing has all but dissolved some time very soon

[SydneyLFC]

the VAR system isn't the problem, it's the same problem as pre-VAR - inconsistent interpretation from the officials. The human element is the problem. I imagine, some time in the future, a computer system will rule... and people wont like that either.

[CCTV]

the VAR system isn't the problem, it's the same problem as pre-VAR - inconsistent interpretation from the officials. The human element is the problem. I imagine, some time in the future, a computer system will rule... and people wont like that either.

The algorithm is already ruling, lots of people don't like it, sadly it's gotten a hold of many folks.

[Nineteenx]

the VAR system isn't the problem, it's the same problem as pre-VAR - inconsistent interpretation from the officials. The human element is the problem. I imagine, some time in the future, a computer system will rule... and people wont like that either.

It's it being corrupt and bent as fuck that's been the issue, most of what's been given very wrongly isn't subjective at all, it's very clear cut and there's no excuse for it or other explanation than it being corrupt and deliberate, it seemed to kick in with avengance after the club pushing for a breakaway European super league and to putting the voting powers in theirs and a handful of other clubs hands, i guess it absolutely rubbed people at the Premier League with the power and influence to orchestrate a stitch up the wrong way

[Nineteenx]

There are just some things there you can't explain away or try and excuse as subjective

Virgil being played a good tard onside by Calvert Lewin v the bitters and VAR not correcting that

Prickford's challenge The Mane offside

The Brighton pen

The West Brom player very clearly fouling Fabinho, they showed the snippet in the build up, simply sickening

It's not restricted to games we dropped points in either, the Chelsea pen and what the fuck is anybodies excuse for the Son offside goal? Stopping the footage a frame early when the ball's not left Lo Celso's foot is subjective is it?

[Taksin]

Am I missing something with the ball hits hand incident in the 70th odd minute last night? Carragher was saying it hit his chest - didn’t look like it to me. Is there a reason why VAR didn’t have a look at it? There were appeals so why didn’t the ref have a look?
Does it count for shots from outside of the box? It must do.

[teesred]

Am I missing something with the ball hits hand incident in the 70th odd minute last night? Carragher was saying it hit his chest - didn’t look like it to me. Is there a reason why VAR didn’t have a look at it? There were appeals so why didn’t the ref have a look?
Does it count for shots from outside of the box? It must do.

I think they've pretty much stopped looking at those type of incidents unless its a clear hand to ball.

[LEGS]

Am I missing something with the ball hits hand incident in the 70th odd minute last night? Carragher was saying it hit his chest - didn’t look like it to me. Is there a reason why VAR didn’t have a look at it? There were appeals so why didn’t the ref have a look?
Does it count for shots from outside of the box? It must do.

Anyone would think Carragher is a United fan he full on seems to be bitter about us.

He is awful as a commentator but he is doing as he is told whilst his dickhead sidekick can say what he likes without being challenged.

It’s only a matter of time before Sky loses football and that will be good hopefully the clubs get to do their own PPV.

[teesred]

Anyone would think Carragher is a United fan he full on seems to be bitter about us.

He is awful as a commentator but he is doing as he is told whilst his dickhead sidekick can say what he likes without being challenged.

It’s only a matter of time before Sky loses football and that will be good hopefully the clubs get to do their own PPV.

Agree totally. Hes become very irritating. His over the top hyperbole is ridiculous.
Almost goes out if his way to not seem biased for likes off neutrals.

[Kev0909]

Anyone would think Carragher is a United fan he full on seems to be bitter about us.

He is awful as a commentator but he is doing as he is told whilst his dickhead sidekick can say what he likes without being challenged.

It’s only a matter of time before Sky loses football and that will be good hopefully the clubs get to do their own PPV.

Indeed fucking me off and we'll probably have to hear him for many years to come

shame he didn't get sacked for the spitting incident, he would now that's for sure

why didn't he do something useful like become a coach or even a manager of some sort? be stevie g's assistant

[Insidious]

Dan Kennett put a thing up on Twitter -

10,000 Monte Carlo simulations of the XG values of #LFC's 87 shots since scoring.
It's more likely that we score 10 than zero.
Most likely occurrence is 5 goals scored.

The last month -

462 minutes
87 shots
51 shots in the box
8 big chances
7.1 XG
Zero goals

I wouldn't read tooooo much into these things, but those little bits aren't falling our way. Which is also present at the other end - maybe against West Brom Alisson actually reaches the ball and we don't concede a corner etc.

[Nineteenx]

Anyone would think Carragher is a United fan he full on seems to be bitter about us.

He is awful as a commentator but he is doing as he is told whilst his dickhead sidekick can say what he likes without being challenged.

It’s only a matter of time before Sky loses football and that will be good hopefully the clubs get to do their own PPV.

You only need to look at the chasm of difference between Souness' reaction (a true club legend and true great of the game of yesteryear) to our current shortfallings and Mr Me Carragher's

And let's make this clear, had the almighty God awful, but for 'anyone but Liverpool' still rife in UK football culture and punditry if it were any other team they would have been all over it series of absolute bent decisions and stitch ups in that game v the bitters had happened to the filthy, partizan Neville would have been all over it on MNF, all fucking over it drawing his own lines, highlighting Virgil was a yard onside asking how the FUCK VAR haven't called it, highlighting Prickford's foul was a straight red whether Virgil had been offside or not and highlighting the very clear footage of him taking his eyes off the ball and targeting the player and again asking how the FUCK VAR haven't called that and been highlighting the Mane non offside and asking how many times larger than life size they'd had to blow that image up to say he was 1mm offside, until they made the lining on the rear of his shorts 10mm thick? and point out that the guidance ahead of this season was they weren't doing the 1mm bullshit and he would have highlighted it to the rafters and rightly so, as he should with any team to be fair and THAT would have nipped it in the bud and we wouldn't have this thread

What did Manc apologist Carra do or say? Absolutely fuck all, more concerned on himself and his projected image on Sly Sports and theiving a living as a professional football pundit and LFC die hard like he did for the last 4 years of his playing career with us

[Nineteenx]

You couldn't make it up, I just found this nugget of contradiction of the premier league website

"The hands or arms of all players are not considered for determining offside position.

The line was drawn on the outside edge of Mane’s right upper arm, the "green zone" on the image below, which put him in an offside position."

There is an image to, the only part of Mane that was behind the bitters defender by the alleged 1mm is his right fucking elbow

[Nineteenx]

Sitting pretty

1 Liverpool P21 W15 D4 L2 PTS 49
2 Man City P20 W12 D6 L2 PTS 42
3 Man UTD P21 W12 D4 L5 PTS 40
4 Leicester P21 W12 D3 L6 PTS 39

[ianlfc]

Should the City player seen Red for the penalty, like David Luiz did ?
19x you're letting the side down here not thinking this !!

[JAYPEA]

Sitting pretty

1 Liverpool P21 W15 D4 L2 PTS 49
2 Man City P20 W12 D6 L2 PTS 42
3 Man UTD P21 W12 D4 L5 PTS 40
4 Leicester P21 W12 D3 L6 PTS 39

19. Have you really forensically watched every minute of every game for all these teams all season. That’s pretty impressive thing to do in lockdown while most of us are just upping our wanking.

[jozza800]

Should the City player seen Red for the penalty, like David Luiz did ?
19x you're letting the side down here not thinking this !!

It shouldn't have been a pen tbf! He's quite clearly dived.

[Steveo]

I don't think either were pens but in the current climate - they seem to be given - sometimes and sometimes not. It's as clear as mud.

[Nineteenx]

Should the City player seen Red for the penalty, like David Luiz did ?
19x you're letting the side down here not thinking this !!

Should have been a red card, i'm not making any adjustments to yesterday despite everything we'd actually still be top by a point based on the 9 they robbed us of and part of our slump in form is down to that although for me it's mostly down to changing too much as Trent said himself and that's one of our best players saying that

[LEGS]

I like the look of your table Nineteen even if it isnt real !!

[Nineteenx]

Well, the VAR stitch ups have absolutely affected our form and confidence, no question about that, the wrong decisions leading to points dropped by their rivals and a dip in form and confidence was always part and parcel of officials trying to hand Ferguson's filthy teams the title each season, it was never just about the points they were robbed of in individual games. I kept this going to see if any team would actually get ahead of us and City did, 2 points ahead with a game in hand now

1 Man City P23 W15 D6 L2 PTS 51
2 Liverpool P24 W15 D4 L25PTS 49
3 Leicester P24 W14 D4 L6 PTS 46
4 Man UTD P24 W13 D6 L5 PTS 45

[dicko1969]

I have a serious question.

Is VAR CORRUPT?

I would like an independent review of all var decisions compared throughout this season at all clubs.

The VVD incident and Mane
The penalty v Brighton

ManUtd pen where pogba trips himself.

Lots of insane decisions

[LEGS]

I have a serious question.

Is VAR CORRUPT?

I would like an independent review of all var decisions compared throughout this season at all clubs.

The VVD incident and Mane
The penalty v Brighton

ManUtd pen where pogba trips himself.

Lots of insane decisions

Take us out of it look at that decision last night Fulham v Sheff Utd.

Can anyone honestly understand how they came to that decision ?

Bad news is guess who Sheff Utd got next what a time to even things up.

[Kev0909]

Take us out of it look at that decision last night Fulham v Sheff Utd.

Can anyone honestly understand how they came to that decision ?

Bad news is guess who Sheff Utd got next what a time to even things up.

yes cus we'll need VAR to beat shef utd

rofl

[dicko1969]

The leeds one too
Where bamford arm offside

The lines wonky too.
VAR isn't even 100% sure technology.

[Nineteenx]

I have a serious question.

Is VAR CORRUPT?

I would like an independent review of all var decisions compared throughout this season at all clubs.

The VVD incident and Mane
The penalty v Brighton

ManUtd pen where pogba trips himself.

Lots of insane decisions

They're match fixing Dicko, it's not intended as it was done in Italy or at a couple of world cups, but they are match fixing nonetheless and it's a criminal offence

[LEGS]

yes cus we'll need VAR to beat shef utd

rofl

The way things are going this season other than Man City is any result a dead cert ???

VAR is having a huge impact on teams and results.

One thing about Sheff Utd is they very rarely get hammered.

You can laugh all you like we've had more taken away than given to us.

The league is done for me now this season I dont give a toss if we finish 9th I dont want Europa id rather sack that off.

[dicko1969]

They're match fixing Dicko, it's not intended as it was done in Italy or at a couple of world cups, but they are match fixing nonetheless and it's a criminal offence

I'm serious
I really do think VAR decisions must be challenged.

Not klopp or the players.

But the clubs.
Making comprehensive report on all decisions through the season.

Comparing like for like decisions.

I'd say we got away with x2 decisions.

Son offside ... minimal not clear and obvious.

Firmino tackle v Fulham at craven cottage.

Imo should have been a pen for Fulham.

I can count probably 8 that have gone against us.

VAR IS CORRUPT

[teesred]

I said yesterday that now the refs have the video replay they should be made to explain their decision.
He should be made to come on tv and explain why he gives that as a penalty yesterday. Their decisions are costing teams points but as always they are protected and its wrong but then you've got prats like that BHA manager Potter kissing their arse saying we should respect them more.
VAR has done nothing. Nothing except for muddy the waters.
If there was a vote on keeping it I would be amazed if it was a favourable one.

[dicko1969]

I'm serious
I really do think VAR decisions must be challenged.

Not klopp or the players.

But the clubs.
Making comprehensive report on all decisions through the season.

Comparing like for like decisions.

I'd say we got away with x2 decisions.

Son offside ... minimal not clear and obvious.

Firmino tackle v Fulham at craven cottage.

Imo should have been a pen for Fulham.

I can count probably 8 that have gone against us.

VAR IS CORRUPT

*Fabinho tackle

[skyebo]

I said yesterday that now the refs have the video replay they should be made to explain their decision.
He should be made to come on tv and explain why he gives that as a penalty yesterday. Their decisions are costing teams points but as always they are protected and its wrong but then you've got prats like that BHA manager Potter kissing their arse saying we should respect them more.
VAR has done nothing. Nothing except for muddy the waters.
If there was a vote on keeping it I would be amazed if it was a favourable one.

The fans are as much to blame, they were banging on for years that something like this should be brought in. Now it's here, they seem to complain about it. They can't have it both ways, there was never any reason for change and it's proving correct.

[Nineteenx]

The fans are as much to blame, they were banging on for years that something like this should be brought in. Now it's here, they seem to complain about it. They can't have it both ways, there was never any reason for change and it's proving correct.

No, it is being used corruptly, in the first 25-30 games of last season, when it was used for the purposes of its inception, it was brilliant, made sure the right decisions were made, it's not fit for purpose how it is being used this season, it's just match fixing

[Steveo]

No, it is being used corruptly, in the first 25-30 games of last season, when it was used for the purposes of its inception, it was brilliant, made sure the right decisions were made, it's not fit for purpose how it is being used this season, it's just match fixing

We did pretty well in those first 25/30 games as I recall. :D

Now I am with you on the historical bias towards Manchester United - it has been a fixture ever since the Munich disaster. They became almost like a second national team in the eyes of the establishment.

Then the Fergy years were ridiculous. And I agree that they have been getting a bunk up late last season and for much of this, but I don’t see such a clear agenda against us. I see some very inconsistent calls - and they do definitely look bent when seen through the lens of our current demise - but match fixing?

I may be wrong but I don’t see it.

[Nineteenx]

We did pretty well in those first 25/30 games as I recall. :D

We did, but those calls were the correct calls after going to VAR, we also still had more given against us than go for us over the season, they were still the right calls, tiny margins of offside etc, but when it was being applied fairly and correctly, it was the same for everyone, that is simply not the case this season

Cast your mind back to our disallowed goal v Wolves, which was given as a goal on review

Anthony Taylor no surprises there, blew his whistle for what he thought was a handball by Lallana, it went to VAR the footage clearly showing Lallana had not in fact handballed, but had controlled the ball with his shoulder to assist Mane for his goal v Wolves and Taylor's decision was rightly and correctly overturned. That wasn't us being given something by VAR, that was a clear and obvious error that VAR corrected

If that was this season, it would have been a very quick review, with the broadcaster not showing the same comprehensive footage of the replays and Taylor's incorrect decision and clear and obvious error would have stood

It is a form of match fixing, they think they're being very clever and they can do as they wish and are a law unto themselves, but there is absolutely a case to be made for it being match fixing and they should face investigation, not by FIFA or UEFA, but by the police

Given the wealth of evidence of the alleged 'subjective' decisions being given 95% of the time for the exact same fouls in the exact same positions and situations and not being given when those same fouls in the same situations are happening to our players, including all the 'course of the game' fouls, like the constant holding and wrestling of our players, when in other games those offences are blown up for almost immediately and are in our games if it's one of our players who is deemed to be committing them, it is match fixing, and the CPS would have more than enough to prosecute for it being

Now I used to complain about decisions, I actually stopped last season as VAR used properly was getting them right and when they were getting them right and it wasn't the decision I wanted or hoped for, I wasn't complaining, but this season that is not the case and as for 'our current situation' the VAR bollocks and playing to a different set of rules than all other clubs isn't the sole reason, but it has unquestionably played a massive part in it

Then there is also the wealth of evidence of non subjective VAR decisions on offsides, the Prickford foul etc, they are absolutely damning as clear match fixing, you can't get away from them, it is the same as the police and CPS having CCTV footage of someone committing a crime. How could they possibly defend the Virgil offside v the bitters? He's clearly, from every replay at least 2 yards on, other than deliberate match fixing there is no excuse or reason in their defence they can give for not correcting that decision with the replay footage in front of them

And on the Prickford foul, the FA or very obviously in the dock, for me they are with all of it, but on their review they didn't suspend him, the footage very clearly shows Prickford take his eyes off the ball and cast them instead on the player, very clearly, and then go on to deliberately foul that player. It's another bang to rights example, there's no getting away from it, for VAR or the FA review panel

[Nineteenx]

I'm serious
I really do think VAR decisions must be challenged.

Making comprehensive report on all decisions through the season.

Comparing like for like decisions

VAR IS CORRUPT

That's how the club make their case and submit it to the police and CPS for further investigation

The like for like alleged 'subjective' decisions, that are given 95% of the time in all other instances but not when the same foul is committed on one of our players amounts to clear and deliberate match fixing and the officials and the official bodies that are part of it should all face prosecution

Given the overwhelming body of evidence there is a cast iron case to be made. the club need to instruct our fabled analysis team to go about doing just that and quickly, by the end of the week

[Nineteenx]

There are contractual agreements about clubs not taking certain actions against the bodies involved, they won't and can't include and restrict any club or person from going to the police and CPS if they believe a criminal offence is being committed and it most definitely is

I think the club must do it and report and allegation of match fixing to the police with a comprehensive and overwhelming documented video catalogue of it, these cunts get busted, people start squealing and rolling trying to save their own sorry hide and who knows where it ends with regards to it having happened historically, when there wasn't any CCTV/VAR to the same affect, so it could be put down to human error, all the FA and refs association are doing this season is replacing the old phrase 'human error' with a new phrase, buzz word 'subjective' it's corrupt as fuck, has been for years and we need to get these people the fuck out of English football and in prison

[Steveo]

In many ways you are right - if indeed this is a provable conspiracy, then we should do as you suggest BUT in the real world we know how this will likely pan out. Huge money and establishment weight will be thrown at protecting the FA/Premier League at all costs. The entire reputation of the game and this nation as a whole would be at stake and we are talking revenues in the billions!

Remember in Italy these things are far more likely to come out - there have even been explicit expose's on hugely powerful mafia groups despite overt risk of death and people have lost their lives as result, but still they have persevered. Corruption in Italy is expected - it is challenged and continually fought against - here it is masked very well. Work for long enough in the city of London and you will know. You don't control half the globe without knowing how to manage what people perceive as truth.

Britain wrote the book - and we are far more skilled at hiding deep rooted corruption. Liverpool football club would be going up against the beast on this.

[Nineteenx]

In many ways you are right - if indeed this is a provable conspiracy, then we should do as you suggest BUT in the real world we know how this will likely pan out. Huge money and establishment weight will be thrown at protecting the FA/Premier League at all costs. The entire reputation of the game and this nation as a whole would be at stake and we are talking revenues in the billions!

Remember in Italy these things are far more likely to come out - there have even been explicit expose's on hugely powerful mafia groups despite overt risk of death and people have lost their lives as result, but still they have persevered. Corruption in Italy is expected - it is challenged and continually fought against - here it is masked very well. Work for long enough in the city of London and you will know. You don't control half the globe without knowing how to manage what people perceive as truth.

Britain wrote the book - and we are far more skilled at hiding deep rooted corruption. Liverpool football club would be going up against the beast on this.

The way I see it, they have already 'gone up against the beast' with their attempted power grab earlier this season, it was the game immediately after that v the bitters when this started, absolutely no question about that whatsoever

Now they've done that their only course of action is to put forward an overwhelming, catalogued and documented, water tight case to the police and CPS of match fixing, there aren't any contractual agreements that can prevent them reporting what they believe to be a crime and the evidence of deliberate match fixing or attempts to do so is overwhelming

[teesred]

The way I see it, they have already 'gone up against the beast' with their attempted power grab earlier this season, it was the game immediately after that v the bitters when this started, absolutely no question about that whatsoever

Now they've done that their only course of action is to put forward an overwhelming, catalogued and documented, water tight case to the police and CPS of match fixing, there aren't any contractual agreements that can prevent them reporting what they believe to be a crime and the evidence of deliberate match fixing or attempts to do so is overwhelming

Which would get absolutely laughed at.
Get a grip, there's no conspiracy at all the same as there wasn't any bias towards Utd. They were just way better than everyone else.
This kind of crap is what gets LFC laughed at and why opposition fans show so much glee when we are down on our luck.

[Nineteenx]

Which would get absolutely laughed at.
Get a grip, there's no conspiracy at all the same as there wasn't any bias towards Utd. They were just way better than everyone else.
This kind of crap is what gets LFC laughed at and why opposition fans show so much glee when we are down on our luck.

Steveo's talking about you


]You don't control half the globe without knowing how to manage what people perceive as truth.
]

[teesred]

Steveo's talking about you

Yeah ok. Your world must be very lonely.

[Steveo]

I can see both points of view 19 and am open to either being true

Unlike tees perhaps - I do believe United were granted an abundance of what would be politely termed ‘soft decisions’ - especially at Old Trafford and especially under Ferguson. Plenty of ex pro’s and even some officials that have made that claim too.

On the claim of match fixing - I am suggesting that IF there is a provable conspiracy then in theory we should challenge it - BUT that it would still likely end in tears as the entire fabric of British sport would be thrown into question. Doping the lot. Think it would go right to the top tbh - many powerful interests would likely quash any attempt.

[Nineteenx]

You don't control half the globe without knowing how to manage what people perceive as truth.


See 'subjective' you honestly believe that 15-20 VAR reviews of major game changing decisions all going against our lads, when 95% of those alleged subjective decisions for exactly the same incident in all other games have been given the exact opposite to how the 'subjectivity' was applied when it was in our games

That's coincidence? bad luck?

You get a fucking grip, I fucking loathe our society because it's absolutely brimming with morons who believe all the crap they've spoon fed and just how incredibly fucking thick they are to be so easily manipulated and keep gleefully swallowing down their medicine, included in that is the perception you have that complaining and calling things out that pertinently aren't right and are very obviously, easily able to be documented as very suspect and wrong makes you bad, a loon of whatever

The really moronic element of it is, you believe that perception is one you have arrived at through your own volition, it isn't, it is the perception they have given you, I'm absolutely sick to death of people in this society allowing things that are entirely unacceptable to become normalised, honestly, it boils my blood

[teesred]

It could probably be levelled at every sport in every country in some shape or form I'd suspect. Either purposely or indirectly there might be influence but a widespread conspiracy against LFC is extreme to say the least for me.

Its easy for some LFC fans to say "people said we got favoured in the 70s and 80s but we were just the best thats all". Utd can say that too, they were the best and possibly did get away with things here and there but it wouldn't have changed any trophies they won and if there was favour towards them it doesn't explain how they've been over the last 8 seasons.

We are in a bad place right now and we all need to stop looking for excuses as its becoming tiresome. There are many factors why this season has gone the way it has but the most important is how we recover and learn from it.

[Nineteenx]

I can see both points of view 19 and am open to either being true

Unlike tees perhaps - I do believe United were granted an abundance of what would be politely termed ‘soft decisions’ - especially at Old Trafford and especially under Ferguson. Plenty of ex pro’s and even some officials that have made that claim too.

On the claim of match fixing - I am suggesting that IF there is a provable conspiracy then in theory we should challenge it - BUT that it would still likely end in tears as the entire fabric of British sport would be thrown into question. Doping the lot. Think it would go right to the top tbh - many powerful interests would likely quash any attempt.

Clattenberg admitted as much in his book, straight from the horses fucking mouth, but Tees knows better than an official who was part of it

And speaking of allowing things to be normalised 'Fergie time' I mean seriously, what the fuck, it is just accepted, universally, a side regularly being given additional time on top of additional time in their games when they were drawing to try and get a late late winner and additional pressure and stress the phenomenom of 'Fergie time' put on the side desperately trying to hold on to help facilitate those late goals happening

I never accepted it, but as per my prior post, 99% of people, all the commentators and pundits, happily accepted that it was ok for this one team and manager to have additional time added at the end of so many of their games for them to try and score a winning goal, that other teams didn't get - Fucking morons as I said

[Steveo]

Most people just don’t have the time 19.. they don’t have the time to look into everything.

I wouldn’t just blame the people as a whole.

They have families - kids to bring up, parents to look after, illnesses to cope with. Life gets in the way of so many things.

As I have said many of your suspicions - which may seem outlandish to some IMO are well founded, I just think you might be taking them a little far.

If you are totally correct then I am wrong in this but that is the way I see it now.

I see that United have had huge ‘benefit of the doubt’ while we have seemingly had none. but I see other clubs getting bulldozed by VAR decisions too.


I guess what I am saying is - I just don’t know.

[teesred]

Clattenberg admitted as much in his book, straight from the horses fucking mouth, but Tees knows better than an official who was part of it

And speaking of allowing things to be normalised 'Fergie time' I mean seriously, what the fuck, it is just accepted, universally, a side regularly being given additional time on top of additional time in their games when they were drawing to try and get a late late winner and additional pressure and stress the phenomenom of 'Fergie time' put on the side desperately trying to hold on to help facilitate those late goals happening

I never accepted it, but as per my prior post, 99% of people, all the commentators and pundits, happily accepted that it was ok for this one team and manager to have additional time added at the end of so many of their games for them to try and score a winning goal, that other teams didn't get - Fucking morons as I said

I never said I know better at all. Its just my opinion. You can't go around calling me a thick cunt or a moron because I'm not buying into your conspiracy theory.
If this is such a thing why are you the only person who thinks this is real? Or is everybody a moron or are they just realistic?
If the club even had this suggested to them what do you think their reaction would be?

[LEGS]

What needs to happen is the viewer/crowd should be able to hear what is being said by the VAR officials and referee.

This clears things up for everyone and helps fans understand why a decision is made.

It wont be perfect because nothing is but it works brilliantly in rugby/cricket.

End of the day fans buying tickets and tv packages are the ones funding the game yet they are treated badly.

Nothing worse for you at home when the Sky/BT guys know what is going on and you dont.

Its simple to do but the question is WHY arent they ?

[Nineteenx]

Most people just don’t have the time 19.. they don’t have the time to look into everything.

I wouldn’t just blame the people as a whole.

They have families - kids to bring up, parents to look after, illnesses to cope with. Life gets in the way of so many things.

As I have said many of your suspicions - which may seem outlandish to some IMO are well founded, I just think you might be taking them a little far.

If you are totally correct then I am wrong in this but that is the way I see it now.

I see that United have had huge ‘benefit of the doubt’ while we have seemingly had none. but I see other clubs getting bulldozed by VAR decisions too.


I guess what I am saying is - I just don’t know.

Most people don't have time by design, that is a part of the reason society is like it is and was taken in the direction it was, so people don't stop and take a closer look and think about things

I get that Tees disagrees, for my own part I have never been afflicted by the world pulled over my eyes

What was it Einstein wrote?

"There will come a time when the wealthy and powerful control all forms of communication and at that time common man will no longer be capable of making an informed decision"

I have, everywhere I have gone, performed absolutely brilliant work Tees, because I don't have this 'status quo' affliction, I've walked through the doors of so many places and seen things differently, asked why things are done a certain way and there is the belief this is the only way of doing things and tried different things that have proved more successful

After the fact, because if more people could look beyond the 'status quo' people are always like "Oh that was obvious", obvious to me, but not to the tens of thousands of other people who had walked through the doors of those same businesses

This media drive for everyone to conform to the status quo and accept things as they are very obviously isn't any good, 95% of our population are affected by what I call adverse CBT, CBT was designed to treat mental health, to help condition people who couldn't accept or had fears or phobias of certain things to accept them, it has been used universally by Western media for the last 40 plus years to get people to accept things and allow things to become normalised they should never have accepted

[teesred]

I don't disagree with any of that. We are controlled,conditioned wether it be consciously or unconsciously. It takes brave people to stand up to those things/norms or establishments and the sad part is they are often alone and or abandoned because of it.

If there was a conspiracy against LFC how would you or anyone for that matter go about uncovering or proving it? If the club came out with the theory it would probably marginalise them completely.

[Steveo]

I don't disagree with any of that. We are controlled,conditioned wether it be consciously or unconsciously. It takes brave people to stand up to those things/norms or establishments and the sad part is they are often alone and or abandoned because of it.

If there was a conspiracy against LFC how would you or anyone for that matter go about uncovering or proving it? If the club came out with the theory it would probably marginalise them completely.

In a nutshell..

[Nineteenx]

I don't disagree with any of that. We are controlled,conditioned wether it be consciously or unconsciously. It takes brave people to stand up to those things/norms or establishments and the sad part is they are often alone and or abandoned because of it.

If there was a conspiracy against LFC how would you or anyone for that matter go about uncovering or proving it? If the club came out with the theory it would probably marginalise them completely.

Just put together a very detailed video, highlighting what they believe to be match fixing and submit a complaint including that to the police and CPS of the criminal offence they believe is being committed

Right now they're laughing at us, all those cunts at the FA and referees association are laughing at us, stitching us up game after game believing that because of various contractual stipulations there isn't a damned thing we can do about it, doing as I suggest is the only thing we can do, they can't stop us or sanction us from reporting what we believe to be criminal activity

Marginalise? Are you joking? We were marginalised the minute our beloved owners attempted their power grab, if we do nothing we allow them to normalise it and it will remain the same or get worse and everyone will accept it, right now people are asking questions and making a bit of noise at least, Souness the true club legend that he is and a couple of others, if we leave it and do nothing, we're fucked, it will be more of the same or worse, season after season after season until you and I are both in the ground or cremated

You don't get this, 'they' believe that is we are allowed to be at the top of the English game, our beloved owners are going to break up their cash cow and take away all their power and positions of importance and influence as they view them, the die has been cast by our beloved owners and only the strongest action as I suggest will change that

[Nineteenx]

Confirmation ID: 3hm3x
Thank you for contacting the Serious Fraud Office (SFO).

The SFO is a relatively small, highly specialised government department that is permitted by law only to investigate cases where there are reasonable grounds to suspect serious or complex fraud, bribery and corruption.

[ianlfc]

Confirmation ID: 3hm3x
Thank you for contacting the Serious Fraud Office (SFO).

The SFO is a relatively small, highly specialised government department that is permitted by law only to investigate cases where there are reasonable grounds to suspect serious or complex fraud, bribery and corruption.

Can you also ask them to investigate wether we've got the Thiago who played for Bayern last season ?

[TheDOC1979]

Can we also check if the moon landing was real and if the earth is truly round?

[Nineteenx]

Can we also check if the moon landing was real and if the earth is truly round?


You don't control half the globe without knowing how to manage what people perceive as truth.

Thing you have to realise about me is that I am VERY different from the rest of you, I am not and have never lived in the world pulled over my eyes, I was around 12-13 when I realised that most of what was in the news was misinformation and a form of conditioning and control, simply because things that were on the news about privatisation, sale of council homes and other thngs to me were very obviously untrue, lies and misinformation, yet the grown ups in the house believed them because they were on the news or in their paper and to me, there was something very wrong with that

I've been brilliant at many things, a big part of that has been having bipolar, because my mania, up until the Manc cunts ruining my life, was always incredibly productive, the best way to explain it is that you run incredibly hot, you're processing far quicker than any normal person, you feel like superman, months of 3-4 hours sleep a night, never tired, so you're producing greater quality and quantity of work than normal people, you are literally on fire

The other part of it, I hadn't really realised until my dialogue with Steveo in this thread, I have never accepted or been part of what 95% of people accept as the status quo, I've always questioned everything, most people go into a new place of work and don't do that, they go in and conform to the status quo and way of doing things as they are when they arrive, because unlike me, they've spent their entire lives conforming and being conditioned to conform to the status quo, so it's simply drummed out of most people very early to do what I do and ever question the status quo

It's very clear on quite a number of threads here

[TheDOC1979]

Thing you have to realise about me is that I am VERY different from the rest of you, I am not and have never lived in the world pulled over my eyes, I was around 12-13 when I realised that most of what was in the news was misinformation and a form of conditioning and control, simply because things that were on the news about privatisation, sale of council homes and other thngs to me were very obviously untrue, lies and misinformation, yet the grown ups in the house believed them because they were on the news or in their paper and to me, there was something very wrong with that

I've been brilliant at many things, a big part of that has been having bipolar, because my mania, up until the Manc cunts ruining my life, was always incredibly productive, the best way to explain it is that you run incredibly hot, you're processing far quicker than any normal person, you feel like superman, months of 3-4 hours sleep a night, never tired, so you're producing greater quality and quantity of work than normal people, you are literally on fire

The other part of it, I hadn't really realised until my dialogue with Steveo in this thread, I have never accepted or been part of what 95% of people accept as the status quo, I've always questioned everything, most people go into a new place of work and don't do that, they go in and conform to the status quo and way of doing things as they are when they arrive, because unlike me, they've spent their entire lives conforming and being conditioned to conform to the status quo, so it's simply drummed out of most people very early to do what I do and ever question the status quo

It's very clear on quite a number of threads here

No one is going to discourage being against a specific thread or a sentence or and opinion 19.

Honestly mate, I wish everyone on here well and its just opinions, but you have to accept others opinion also. It would be an extremely boring world if we all agreed on a specific topic.

[teesred]

Thing you have to realise about me is that I am VERY different from the rest of you, I am not and have never lived in the world pulled over my eyes, I was around 12-13 when I realised that most of what was in the news was misinformation and a form of conditioning and control, simply because things that were on the news about privatisation, sale of council homes and other thngs to me were very obviously untrue, lies and misinformation, yet the grown ups in the house believed them because they were on the news or in their paper and to me, there was something very wrong with that

I've been brilliant at many things, a big part of that has been having bipolar, because my mania, up until the Manc cunts ruining my life, was always incredibly productive, the best way to explain it is that you run incredibly hot, you're processing far quicker than any normal person, you feel like superman, months of 3-4 hours sleep a night, never tired, so you're producing greater quality and quantity of work than normal people, you are literally on fire

The other part of it, I hadn't really realised until my dialogue with Steveo in this thread, I have never accepted or been part of what 95% of people accept as the status quo, I've always questioned everything, most people go into a new place of work and don't do that, they go in and conform to the status quo and way of doing things as they are when they arrive, because unlike me, they've spent their entire lives conforming and being conditioned to conform to the status quo, so it's simply drummed out of most people very early to do what I do and ever question the status quo

It's very clear on quite a number of threads here

What did they do to ruin your life? Were you working alongside them or living amongst them?

[scientificred]

I once again refer you to the space-time continuum 19x as you have previously quoted Einstein.
The VAR judgements can be viewed as "if only".
For example:
I leave home and turn left and am hit by a cyclist and am hurt. In retrospect I could have turned right and nothing would have happened. But maybe also I missed being hit by a bus.
Who knows!
It would have been a different space-time continuum
Life plays out differently depending on such instances.
The same with a football match and every instance of a football match.
You cannot say that if this or that had happened then the rest of the match would have played out the same way, because, just like the example I have tried to give above, life would play out in a different way.
You cannot apply such ideas to one instance without simultaneously applying such a theory to every instance in a game and wondering what might have happened "if only" - including, for example, every pass both from a partisan and opposition perspective, which is clearly ridiculous.
To sum up - if we lose a game 1-0 but had 2 pens turned down then that does not mean that if they had been given we would have scored them both and won 2-1 - we might have won 7-1 or indeed lost 8-0. No-one knows!
We are talking about a different space-time continuum in all eventualities.

[Steveo]

Correct

[Steveo]

Personally I like the sound of our 19x.

Always have - he is a maverick - not a sheep and is most definitely his own man. The world needs more like that. But like us all - at times he too is wrong.

Nobody can be right 100% of the time.


Can they?

[scientificred]

Personally I like the sound of our 19x.

Always have - he is a maverick - not a sheep and is most definitely his own man. The world needs more like that. But like us all - at times he too is wrong.

Nobody can be right 100% of the time.


Can they?
Love 19x but the idea of a revised league table based on incorrect VAR decisions is so flawed, based on my reasoning above.
I hate to think of him spending so much time to such effect
It would make more sense, and also quite magmanimous of him, if it was simply a league table of who he thought had suffered the most incorrect VAR decisions.
But then I think he would not be so passionate about that.

[Nineteenx]

Our media doing an astonishingly fine job of completely embarrassing themselves and showing their incredible bias with their obvious outrage their beloved filthy weren't handed another penalty

Given that their players arm knocks the Chelsea lads arm upwards causing it to hit the ball, Atwell was 100% correct and what ref in their right mind would trust Chris Kavanagh's judgement of what should be a penalty after the one he gave the bitters against us, for a player tripping himself up running over a player lying prostate on the floor after sliding to make an attempted block?

"We see these decisions given week in week out" Dermot Gallagher - Really? It's not subjective and back the ref all of a sudden as it has be for the 15-20 all given against us or not given for us when the ones in which our players were fouled are and have all been given week in week out?

[miller0863]

The Echo have looked at every VAR decision affecting Liverpool’s games, they have gone into detail on each incident but I have left those who are interested in such detail to go checkout their piece.
Below is their overall summary and conclusion.

“ Liverpool have been on both ends of some ridiculously tight calls and really, refereeing decisions over offside/onside should never be questioned as subjective but given the nature and fast pace of the game, this is always going to happen.

The Reds have seen 15 decisions overturned by VAR this season according to the brilliant tracking data on ESPN, while two overturn decisions have been rejected. Out of the 17 incidents, 11 have gone against Liverpool and six have gone for them.

That led to no goals scored for the defending Premier League champions and six goals being disallowed. It has also led to three goals being given against Klopp's side and two disallowed. That's an overall net goal total of minus seven.

There have also been inconsistencies in the way rules have been implemented this term, particularly with handball as highlighted above, but one thing that has remained a constant throughout, is that life has been sucked out of the game.

VAR is ruining the football experience for everyone involved and the once unbridled joy that met a goal is now more subdued in hope the men in black don't get involved.”

I have agreed with that final paragraph from the start, cannot stand it.

[Nineteenx]

It was fine until they started applying it corruptly

[Nineteenx]

Final table

1 Man City P38 W26 D6 L6 PTS 84
2 Liverpool P38 W25 D5 L8 PTS 80
3 Man UTD P38 W20 D9 L9 PTS 69
4 Chelsea P38 W19 D10 L9 PTS 67

So
City: Arsenal draw -2
Liverpool: Everton win +2 Brighton win +2 WBA win +2 Southampton win +2 United win +2 Chelsea draw +1
The filthy: Chelsea lose -1 Liverpool lose -1 Villa draw -2 Fulham lose -1
Chelsea: United win +2 Liverpool draw -2

Considering the effect VAR had on those results, the pressure and loss of confidence it caused, led to a drastic loss of form in the middle of the season, pretty safe to say we'd have been there of thereabouts despite our injuries and maybe would even have pipped City and with such a close race, with the added pressure on them, would they have amassed as many points?

Part way through my letter to FIFA and UEFA asking them to investigate the Premier League, English FA and ref association, asking them to put more detail in the laws on fouls to remove any or most of the alleged subjective bollocks and to sanction the VAR officials who pertinently ignored the laws of the game in instances that were clear and in which no alleged subjectivity can be applied, mandatory fouls

Instances they ignored the laws of the game with the benefit of VAR replays:

Van Dijk was onside v the bitters
Pickford should have seen red whether or not Van Dijk was offside
Mane was onside v the bitters
Ref blowing up early with Mane clean through v the filthy - obliged to play at least the amount of stoppage time on the board
Handball blocking a shot on target v Southampton - Mandatory foul and penalty in all instances no subjectivity allowed
Handballs by Kante v Liverpool and Greenwood v Villa - Mandatory foul and penalties in all instances, no subjectivity allowed
Failure to disallow Cavani's superb strike after replays clearly showed Fernandes hadn't touched the ball, meaning Cavani was 2 yards offside

[dicko1969]

Rose tinted glasses 🤣🤣

[dicko1969]

I must admit
The Everton and Brighton one shock the team.

The pogba penalty tripping himself up took the biscuit.
Video here would be good to see.

Vvd thiago everton
Brighton
Injuries / car
Loss of belief ; many chances squandered.
January to March
Really hit the squad.

[dicko1969]

*var (not car)

[Nineteenx]

You could add to the list

Failure to award a foul for the West Brom player climbing on Fabinho to score their equaliser - clear foul and encroachment in the laws of the game

Failure to award a penalty for Bailly's foul on Phillips - It wasn't the follow through, Phillips, who is hard as nails and never goes down easily was writhing on the floor clutching his shin, Bailly's studs made contact with Phillip's shin before he even played the ball, it was clear on replays, although not the best angle, you can see the direction of Bailly's foot change as it passes Phillips' shin, he caught him on the shin first

Rule changes: Nail down these fouls where a defender catches a players leg accidentally in their natural running stride as mandatory fouls - I saw 15 of these fouls this season 14 were given, only one wasn't , take the subjectivity bollocks away from our corrupt officials

Nail down this follow through being a foul if the player tackled was in possession of the ball and take any subjectivity bollocks out of that too - If the player wins clearly wins the ball and the forwards continuing forward movement is as responsible for any contact between the 2 as the defenders - No foul If the defender follows through further than necessary with excessive force - foul

Sort the bloody offsides out, use the position of players feet only or through calculating the average speed of players and how far the can travel in 0.1 or 0.2 of a second, change the laws so a different thickness of line must be applied in VAR review in instances when the frame rate is unable to pin point the exact time the ball was played and also calculate what 0. of a second the frame rate is out from the actual point the player played the ball, and/or put a sensor in the ball and synchronise that with the footage

[Steveo]

I have it on good authority that a Burnley staff member farted loudly and with deliberate intent just as Salah went clean through - the sound being magnified by the empty stands.... he naturally missed. We would surely have gone on to win.

At St Mary’s a Saints player is rumoured to have let one go near the centre circle at the start of the second half - unleashing a gut wrenching, potent stench. The suffocating odour was said to be utterly debilitating within a 2 mile radius for anyone not acclimatised.


So that’s another 6 points - making us League Champions again.... and by double the margin City managed in 2019!

[skyebo]

I have it on good authority that a Burnley staff member farted loudly and with deliberate intent just as Salah went clean through - the sound being magnified by the empty stands.... he naturally missed. We would surely have gone on to win.

At St Mary’s a Saints player is rumoured to have let one go near the centre circle at the start of the second half - unleashing a gut wrenching, potent stench. The suffocating odour was said to be utterly debilitating within a 2 mile radius for anyone not acclimatised.


So that’s another 6 points - making us League Champions again.... and by double the margin City managed in 2019!

Haha 😄🤣😂

[Taksin]

Nice work, Nineteenx

Someone had to do it and it was always going to be hard to calculate and keep track of other teams. Whether you are correct or not is hard to say but the potential is there for the discrepancy you perceive to have occurred. Of course the law of changing influences means it is ultimately incalculable, as Steveo tried to parody above. If we were on the receiving end of injustices, as we undoubtedly were, that continues to affect the team and undermine confidence, further affecting performances.

I suppose we have to work on anti-fragility. Fight back and win

[vin]

Thing you have to realise about me is that I am VERY different from the rest of you, I am not and have never lived in the world pulled over my eyes, I was around 12-13 when I realised that most of what was in the news was misinformation and a form of conditioning and control, simply because things that were on the news about privatisation, sale of council homes and other thngs to me were very obviously untrue, lies and misinformation, yet the grown ups in the house believed them because they were on the news or in their paper and to me, there was something very wrong with that

I've been brilliant at many things, a big part of that has been having bipolar, because my mania, up until the Manc cunts ruining my life, was always incredibly productive, the best way to explain it is that you run incredibly hot, you're processing far quicker than any normal person, you feel like superman, months of 3-4 hours sleep a night, never tired, so you're producing greater quality and quantity of work than normal people, you are literally on fire

The other part of it, I hadn't really realised until my dialogue with Steveo in this thread, I have never accepted or been part of what 95% of people accept as the status quo, I've always questioned everything, most people go into a new place of work and don't do that, they go in and conform to the status quo and way of doing things as they are when they arrive, because unlike me, they've spent their entire lives conforming and being conditioned to conform to the status quo, so it's simply drummed out of most people very early to do what I do and ever question the status quo

It's very clear on quite a number of threads here

Did you write a letter to FIFA & UEFA asking them to investigate VAR?

[teesred]

I have it on good authority that a Burnley staff member farted loudly and with deliberate intent just as Salah went clean through - the sound being magnified by the empty stands.... he naturally missed. We would surely have gone on to win.

At St Mary’s a Saints player is rumoured to have let one go near the centre circle at the start of the second half - unleashing a gut wrenching, potent stench. The suffocating odour was said to be utterly debilitating within a 2 mile radius for anyone not acclimatised.


So that’s another 6 points - making us League Champions again.... and by double the margin City managed in 2019!

😄. Pumpgate!

[Nineteenx]

Nice work, Nineteenx

Someone had to do it and it was always going to be hard to calculate and keep track of other teams. Whether you are correct or not is hard to say but the potential is there for the discrepancy you perceive to have occurred. Of course the law of changing influences means it is ultimately incalculable, as Steveo tried to parody above. If we were on the receiving end of injustices, as we undoubtedly were, that continues to affect the team and undermine confidence, further affecting performances.

I suppose we have to work on anti-fragility. Fight back and win

Thanks Taskin

Well, people can argue the toss or parody how it put it together, in my summations there are a number of incidents, that under the laws of the game are very clearly outlined mandatory fouls, which there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for VAR to make the wrong call on, fouls that there is zero room for the bullshit 'subjective' narrative to be applied to.

The reason I am writing to UEFA and FIFA is I believe the Premier League, English FA and refs association MUST be held to account and be made to explain decisions and actions by onfield and VAR officials that are contrary to the laws of the game, other than deliberate calculated bias there is no excusing the actions of all the officials and they should all be disbarred from officiating games with immediate effect.

It amounts to deliberate match fixing, whatever their motives, that is what it was pure and simple and with the Van Dijk incident and subsequent later foul on Thiago, these officials failure to apply the laws of the game and act contrary to them endangered player health and safety which is wholly and entirely unacceptable, and by upholding the officials decision on review with the benefit of very damning replays, the FA are equally as guilty.

I am suggesting, as having watched several Champions League and Europa League matches this season and not found the same issues in either competition, that UEFA have a panel of top Champions League refs study the footage as part of the investigation

[Taksin]

I think it’s great that you’re writing to them. The decisions have been inconsistent, hard to predict, hard to understand, and easy to doubt (as with the choice of exactly when the pass is made in an off side call).

It may have no effect but it may have a positive effect but you won’t find out unless you actually do it.

[Nineteenx]

I think it’s great that you’re writing to them. The decisions have been inconsistent, hard to predict, hard to understand, and easy to doubt (as with the choice of exactly when the pass is made in an off side call).

It may have no effect but it may have a positive effect but you won’t find out unless you actually do it.

They should at the very least be made to offer an explanation for a complete failure to apply the laws of the game in the clear instances they deliberately failed to do so, the one's where there is no room for their subjectivity bollocks because the laws of the game do not allow for it and for endangering player safety

[retired]

Any one know how many English refs have been invited to ref. the Euros. Was it the last worlds or Euros that there was not one in sight.

[Steveo]

Jokes aside - here is more evidence of what we were up against this season.

19 is quite right - this should be highlighted to the relevant authorities because it appears way beyond coincidental.

https://www.givemesport.com/1696582-liverpool-video-of-ridiculous-calls-against-show-it-was-a-miracle-they-finished-3rd

[Steveo]

This short clip sums it up nicely.


https://youtu.be/mFiJQYx_VDE

[Kev0909]

This short clip sums it up nicely.


https://youtu.be/mFiJQYx_VDE

was literally just about to post this but it was on twitter

I think my fav was "possible offside" while they literally adjusted the line so it wasn't straight , no shame.

I do think sometimes it's just rub of the green, you get luck and other times you don't, but.... it's a bit more than that this season I feel.I mean some of them are 50/50 but wouldn't of been given if it was other teams

[Steveo]

Absolutely - it is rub of the green to a large degree and last season (2019/20) I felt we got plenty of it... but I do also feel we have been harshly treated for decades - since the birth of Sky Sports & the Premier Leagues inception.

Obviously rival fans would say I am biased but I think it’s clear that certain clubs get away with more than others and that one club in particular ( ahem Filth ) are actively aided wherever possible. We are their only rival - and we have had the piss ripped out of us this season.

I think that - coupled with the sad demise of Klopp’s mother is most responsible for our middle of season collapse. The sense of loss at his mother coupled to the relentless tide of poor or flat out wrong calls against us. It would turn even a winner like Jurgen into a very fragile, defensive and paranoid state.

Regardless he still got that team - minus any senior Centre Backs, its Captain and with plenty miles off form to take 26 from 30 points...!

It’s fantastic and we should celebrate it to be honest..

BUT

We must not forget what happened, and must try to make sure we are never treated so unfairly again.

[Frasier]

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/ranking-the-premier-league-clubs-by-who-is-most-affected-by-var-in-2020-21/

[Nineteenx]

This short clip sums it up nicely.


https://youtu.be/mFiJQYx_VDE

There's a few in there I'd omitted because there were too many to remember :eek: The Newcastle keeper grabbing onto Mane's legs to stop him beating their defender to the ball being one

I focused on the most obvious and significantly on ones that were a failure to apply the laws of the game, but it is absolutely fucking grim watching that, the only offsides I included were Virgil's and Mane's v the bitters, that clip shows how intense and simply bias beyond the pale greater than anything I have ever witnessed in 44 years of watching football

You could create a very lengthy video nasty of the persistent fouling of our players that was allowed too, Hendo got injured through Dacoure being allowed to foul him and drag him back by his arm for fully 10 seconds and the multiple incidents of WWE defending on our forwards, but nothing doing, but the slightest touch by one of our players, the SLIGHTEST, and it's a free kick to the opposition

We were playing to an entirely set of different rules to every other club this season, that's not rub of the green and other clubs had a different set of rules of what they could and couldn't do when they were playing us, a lot of what teams were allowed to get up to in fouling our players persistently, they weren't allowed to do the same in games against other clubs

[Nineteenx]

Absolutely - it is rub of the green to a large degree and last season (2019/20) I felt we got plenty of it... but I do also feel we have been harshly treated for decades - since the birth of Sky Sports & the Premier Leagues inception.

Obviously rival fans would say I am biased but I think it’s clear that certain clubs get away with more than others and that one club in particular ( ahem Filth ) are actively aided wherever possible. We are their only rival - and we have had the piss ripped out of us this season.

I think that - coupled with the sad demise of Klopp’s mother is most responsible for our middle of season collapse. The sense of loss at his mother coupled to the relentless tide of poor or flat out wrong calls against us. It would turn even a winner like Jurgen into a very fragile, defensive and paranoid state.

Regardless he still got that team - minus any senior Centre Backs, its Captain and with plenty miles off form to take 26 from 30 points...!

It’s fantastic and we should celebrate it to be honest..

BUT

We must not forget what happened, and must try to make sure we are never treated so unfairly again.

Exactly Steveo, considering everything that happened to our lads, quite a lot of it deliberately inflicted too, relentlessly so, over a period of around 10-12 games, game after game after game after game, to regroup and pull together and lift themselves to finish 3rd is a massive achievement that should not be under estimated and the VAR table doesn't lie and there are quite a few in your clip I didn't include in that,

[Nineteenx]

This short clip sums it up nicely.


https://youtu.be/mFiJQYx_VDE

What's highly noticeable about this, is the short clips in it that most clearly and accurately show the incidents weren't the ones used by VAR, the Walker-Peters foul on Mane that was a blatant pen, the only one of 15 of those fouls not given, shows just how clear and obvious a foul it was, Walker-Peters reaction told the story too, he knew, but VAR didn't use that shot

[miller0863]

Things even themselves out over a season.

Honestly



No they do.


Really


Well .......


Apparently

[miller0863]

Thing is, despite the obvious agenda against LFC this season, we had enough clear chances in pretty much every game (except maybe City at home and Villa away) to have won every game this season. Despite having to play most of the season with 6th and 7th choice CB’s and conceding 7 at Villa we had 3rd or 4th best defensive record.
It was without doubt, the dip in form of the front 3 that saw us fall 17 points behind City. If we took anything like a normal Premier League ratio of clear chances, none of that VAR nonsense could have touched us.

That’s what needs addressing more than anything.

[scientificred]

Thing is, despite the obvious agenda against LFC this season, we had enough clear chances in pretty much every game (except maybe City at home and Villa away) to have won every game this season. Despite having to play most of the season with 6th and 7th choice CB’s and conceding 7 at Villa we had 3rd or 4th best defensive record.
It was without doubt, the dip in form of the front 3 that saw us fall 17 points behind City. If we took anything like a normal Premier League ratio of clear chances, none of that VAR nonsense could have touched us.

That’s what needs addressing more than anything.
Agreed!

[teesred]

Thing is, despite the obvious agenda against LFC this season, we had enough clear chances in pretty much every game (except maybe City at home and Villa away) to have won every game this season. Despite having to play most of the season with 6th and 7th choice CB’s and conceding 7 at Villa we had 3rd or 4th best defensive record.
It was without doubt, the dip in form of the front 3 that saw us fall 17 points behind City. If we took anything like a normal Premier League ratio of clear chances, none of that VAR nonsense could have touched us.

That’s what needs addressing more than anything.

Totally agree.
I'd bet all clubs could put together a list of decisions that they think have robbed them. Every fan says they've been done over by VAR and refs.
You take care of your own business and 99% of the time theres going to be no need for relying on or complaining about VAR.

[Kev0909]

Thing is, despite the obvious agenda against LFC this season, we had enough clear chances in pretty much every game (except maybe City at home and Villa away) to have won every game this season. Despite having to play most of the season with 6th and 7th choice CB’s and conceding 7 at Villa we had 3rd or 4th best defensive record.
It was without doubt, the dip in form of the front 3 that saw us fall 17 points behind City. If we took anything like a normal Premier League ratio of clear chances, none of that VAR nonsense could have touched us.

That’s what needs addressing more than anything.

Yep top most, I do wonder how many pts salah saved us though, even not being at his best, at least could score (eventually) compared to the others.

it also showed clear problems in midfield that there's 0 goals ( ok a few)

[Nineteenx]

Thing is, despite the obvious agenda against LFC this season, we had enough clear chances in pretty much every game (except maybe City at home and Villa away) to have won every game this season. Despite having to play most of the season with 6th and 7th choice CB’s and conceding 7 at Villa we had 3rd or 4th best defensive record.
It was without doubt, the dip in form of the front 3 that saw us fall 17 points behind City. If we took anything like a normal Premier League ratio of clear chances, none of that VAR nonsense could have touched us.

That’s what needs addressing more than anything.

Yep, always said the same, we have to make sure we're more clinical with our chances, opportunities to create then and final balls to create them, not give referees any excuse or opportunity whatsoever to give a wrong one against us and take their ability to affect the outcome of our games out of their hands

[Nineteenx]

Looooooooooooooooooooool :D Well THAT is what the filthy get, Scholes, Wobble Gob and Hargreaves going on about a winning mentality, the Premier League, the FA and refs association aren't helping them, you get a winning mentality by really pulling together and HAVING to win, HAVING to do it for yourselves, not rolling around looking for a free hand out from officials and them to take points of other teams for you, you get a winning mentality by fucking earning it and fighting with everything you have in every single game to win