Diego

[Balinkay]

Maradona is about to undergo surgery for a blood clot in his brain. :(

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12026/12122871/diego-maradona-to-undergo-surgery-for-blood-clot-on-brain


I mean they say it's "routine" but it sounds anything but in all honesty.

[Steveo]

Yep - sounds bad. Hope he pulls through.

[skyebo]

Someone put a post on Facebook earlier about it. All some of them wanted to talk about was the "Hand of god" and how much of a cheat he was. They conveniently didn't mention his 2nd goal, which for me, is still the best goal i have seen at a finals. The thread got taken down because of those mindless idiots.

[stevie harkness]

The BBC can't leave it alone either, for his 60th birthday last week they offered a video of Maradona's best goals and included the hand of god, the twats.

[justincredible]

The BBC can't leave it alone either, for his 60th birthday last week they offered a video of Maradona's best goals and included the hand of god, the twats.

You's have to remember, the rest of the world LOVES watching that goal.

[Steveo]

What this one...?

https://youtu.be/-ccNkksrfls

[Balinkay]

You's have to remember, the rest of the world LOVES watching that goal.

We kind of do. English misery is a special flavour of good. :D

[stevie harkness]

Ah I wish they'd still have a flashing "R" on screen when showing Replays now.

[Balinkay]

Apparently the procedure's gone well.

[Steveo]

Or this one...? :D

https://youtu.be/1wVho3I0NtU

[stevie harkness]

Well that's more like it.

Barry Davies is a lot more fun when he lets himself go.

[Steveo]

Hahaaa - that’s brilliant..

Apparently Scholes is standing down as boss of Salford City F.C following much work in the sound booth - emulating Victor Hugo's impassioned commentary style.. :D

I have it on good authority that we're in for a treat in the new year. Apparently 'fans back in stadiums' will pale into insignificance once his explosive, raucous new technique is unleashed live on air.

#Gamechanger

[justme]

Guess snorting cocaine for a long while..Aint a good idea when it comes to the old nogging

[Steveo]

One man - one game - and no player has ever dominated a game so much at this level in the history of the sport. He is defending - Pressing - attacking and scoring all the while he is being hunted by a team set up to stop him alone.. England and the disgusting Terry I should have been sent off 4 times Fenwick couldn't stop him even though they tried to cripple him - he was just that good.


https://youtu.be/plKXa8g7s6Y

He has England - and this was a very strong England team BTW - on a piece of string.. Just as Barnes said.. he was too good

[Balinkay]

Well tbf even a very strong England team is like a pretty mediocre Italy or Germany. :D

[Steveo]

Perhaps - but all 3 were far better than Argentina minus Diego... :D

[Balinkay]

Possibly - guess we'll never know. That was a very decent Argentina team in '86 from what I've read. Not amazing by any means (e.g. likely the 2006 team was better player for player from what I've read) but still decent.

That 2006 team was no joke.

[Kev0909]

surgery went well, don't think he'll be around for much longer horrible as it is to say, he's not exactly looked after himself

[skyebo]

One man - one game - and no player has ever dominated a game so much at this level in the history of the sport. He is defending - Pressing - attacking and scoring all the while he is being hunted by a team set up to stop him alone.. England and the disgusting Terry I should have been sent off 4 times Fenwick couldn't stop him even though they tried to cripple him - he was just that good.


https://youtu.be/plKXa8g7s6Y

He has England - and this was a very strong England team BTW - on a piece of string.. Just as Barnes said.. he was too good

Peter Reid went on his holidays too for that wonder goal.

[Steveo]

Hand of god goal he takes out just the 5 players.. as he opens us up like a tin can - before playing the infamous one - two...

He had the entire team on toast. They are trying to break his legs - but couldn’t touch him... That was Diego.

[RedNoodle]

Possibly - guess we'll never know. That was a very decent Argentina team in '86 from what I've read. Not amazing by any means (e.g. likely the 2006 team was better player for player from what I've read) but still decent.

That 2006 team was no joke.

That's why Maradona (as well as a few other players) are 'better' than Messi) i.e. they didn't/don't need to be surrounded by lots of other world class players, be pandered to by teams/managers, or be protected by refs and officials in order to consistently light up games, and even effectively win competitions on their own.

[Steveo]

One of - if not the best players I ever saw in a red shirt talking about his favourite player of all time.


https://youtu.be/lHrJWF8klEs

[Balinkay]

That's why Maradona (as well as a few other players) are 'better' than Messi) i.e. they didn't/don't need to be surrounded by lots of other world class players, be pandered to by teams/managers, or be protected by refs and officials in order to consistently light up games, and even effectively win competitions on their own.

You don't need to be surrounded by world class players to win the WC necessarily. One or two will do. Look at Germany in 2014 - they weren't chalk full of people with a genuine case at being the best in the world in their position - I guess you just need 2-4 in key areas. Neuer, Lahm, Kroos, maybe Özil... at a rather large stretch one of the CBs.

I think you need a solid core with some class sprinkled throughout.

[RedNoodle]

You don't need to be surrounded by world class players to win the WC necessarily. One or two will do. Look at Germany in 2014 - they weren't chalk full of people with a genuine case at being the best in the world in their position - I guess you just need 2-4 in key areas. Neuer, Lahm, Kroos, maybe Özil... at a rather large stretch one of the CBs.

I think you need a solid core with some class sprinkled throughout.

Argentina have just that, despite some protestations from certain quarters. Given that on top of that Messi is supposedly the 'GOAT', they should have done much better than they have done, and they certainly should have won something.

[Steveo]

2006

Messi
Tevez
Mascherano
Ayala
Crespo
Heinze
Riquelme
Saviola
Melito

All shite.. haha

2010

Messi
Tevez
Aguero
Higuain
Mascherano
Milito
Heinze
Samuel
Di Maria

Total shite.. hehe

2014


Messi
Aguero
Higuain
Lavezzi
Di Maria
Mascherano
Zabaleta
Demichelis
Rojo

Garbage


2018

Messi
Aguero
Higuain
Dybala
Di Maria
Mascherano
Zabaleta
Banega
Rojo

Turds the lot


Poor Messi - needs some better players - Like Ronaldinho - Xavi - Iniesta - Busquets - Neymar - Suarez - Alba..

[Balinkay]

@Noods

Messi's been to four WCs iirc - 2006 but he was a baby then (though the likes of Pelè had already been the best player at a WC by that age but hey ho, he was mostly done with his great feats by the age of 26-7 iirc and Messi was still going strong post 30). In 2010 I think Argentina comfortably had one of the three-four best squads at the WC, but they had a clown of a manager and were by no means the favourites. Personally I had both Germany and Spain ahead of them. In 2014 they had a good squad, but not the best at the tournament and he and Masch took the to the final where they lost to Germany in a game where they had the better chances. In 2018 their squad was completely unbalanced - their defence was a joke.

I see your point and agree with it to an extent, but I also feel for him - it's not his fault Maradona had Burruchaga to score against West Germany and he had Higuain to put it wide when through one on one vs Neuer with all the space in the known universe. That's why I hesitate to base my comparison of the two on such individual incidents. Imagine if Jorge misses that chance and idk... Rummenige puts in one more and Higuain or Palacio score one of their one-on-ones against Neuer. Then the script is completely flipped in the Messi v Maradona conversation. That's why I don't like basing such comparisons so heavily on such individual moments.

Edit: spelling and some clarification

[Balinkay]

Looking at the Argentina WC squad of '86 (and bear with me, this is waaaay before my time) Maradona had the likes of:

Burruchaga, Pasarella, Pumpido and Valdano with him. I've at least heard their names and some pretty awe-inspiring things about the first two. Iirc Argentina were second favourites before the tournament (think I researched this when I wanted to have a structured Maradona vs Messi debate, but failed miserably :D). So it's not as if he had ten planks of wood with him either.

[Steveo]

Argentina were one of the favourites for the tournament. Can you hazard an unprejudiced guess as guess as to why ?

Go on knock yourself out.

[skyebo]

I think Pasarella was a defender, and captain at that time. I used to like Kempes, but he was before then. Helped them win in 78.

[Balinkay]

Argentina were one of the favourites for the tournament. Can you hazard an unprejudiced guess as guess as to why ?

Go on knock yourself out.

I'm sure having the little junkie in their team didn't hurt. Don't in any way see how that demonstrates they had a poor squad though, provided that's your point.

[Steveo]

I'm sure having the little junkie in their team didn't hurt. Don't in any way see how that demonstrates they had a poor squad though, provided that's your point.

They didn't have a poor squad - but it was a pretty average Argentina - was considered too much by most to expect anything much even with Diego. Were simply well fancied by bookies because Argentina were historically one of the top nations.

[Balinkay]

But honestly that doesn't sound too dissimilar to the most of the squads Messi had, no? Iirc they were well fancied in 2006 - I absolutely love that squad (but a bit too early for him personally I guess) and in 2014 where they made it to the final and lost a game they arguably should have won.

[Steveo]

But honestly that doesn't sound too dissimilar to the most of the squads Messi had, no? Iirc they were well fancied in 2006 - I absolutely love that squad (but a bit too early for him personally I guess) and in 2014 where they made it to the final and lost a game they arguably should have won.

No way - Messi has not once been in a squad as ordinary at the Argentina of 86 - at least not for me. That is the whole point. He has been in with multiple stars and hasn't looked good enough - not good enough to win games on his own and certainly not to win a world Cup.. Watch him recently against Croatia FFS in 2018 he is just another player. GET IT..? It isn't the toughest job in the world when you start your career in the best club side on the planet after being at the club since an infant. Then Playing with 2 of the best midfielders in modern history BOTH at the same time - surrounded by other players good enough to wiactually WIN world Cups - PLUS a 2 horse league AND officials ready to send off anyone who even farts at you. On the world stage to date - outside of that bubble he hasn't been close to even Ronaldo let alone Diego.

Amazing off the chart success with Barca - no doubt but we need to see more to be compared to Diego in 20-30 years.

[skyebo]

A lot of you on here won't remember the 1970 Brazil team. I've not seen a better international team since, the ones that DO remember it will know what i'm saying.

[Steveo]

I was too young but have seen the games - I haven't seen a team come close to that level. Brazil 1970. - wow they were just too good.

And on top one of the greatest ever players who IMO is absolutely worthy of the GOAT title - don't think you can really ( even though Diego is my personal ) call it when players reach the Pele/Maradona level. it's just the very top.

[Balinkay]

I don't think it's at all obvious that Argentina side of '86 was more ordinary than the '10, '14 and '18 sides. Pasarella is afaik somewhat widely considered as one of the best ever CBs and Burruchaga was a top top striker.

But it's hard for me to judge, as I wasn't really there. All I can do is compare it to other sides from the time and how I perceive them and they seem to stack up halfway well - which means little, as I really don't have the info. Who would you say was better player for player than Argentina in '86 (let's say starting 11, so this doesn't get out of hand)?

I think there will always be a debate between them. The younger Argentine blows Don Diego (and pretty much everyone else) out of the water when it comes to career stats and is possibly on course to become the most decorated player ever, but as you say, he did play for a better club side than Diego for at least the vast majority of his career, if not his whole career.

Besides, I have a sneaking suspicion there's absolutely nothing Messi could ever do that would convince someone like you that he's clearly better than Maradona. This could be well founded, mind you - could be that Diego was just that good. Could also be that you;'re just misty eyed looking at an idol from your youth, like people from my generation look at Zidane (to a lesser degree obviously, Zizou shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath and Pele and Maradoa) and place him in their all time 11s (which I just find laughable). I mean Zizou was good but he wasn't that good.

[Balinkay]

Re: Brazi 1970


GK 1 Félix
RB 4 Carlos Alberto (c)
CB 2 Brito
CB 3 Piazza
LB 16 Everaldo
RH 5 Clodoaldo
LH 8 Gérson
OR 7 Jairzinho
OL 11 Rivellino
CF 9 Tostão
CF 10 Pelé


I mean... that's just unfair.

[skyebo]

Re: Brazi 1970


GK 1 Félix
RB 4 Carlos Alberto (c)
CB 2 Brito
CB 3 Piazza
LB 16 Everaldo
RH 5 Clodoaldo
LH 8 Gérson
OR 7 Jairzinho
OL 11 Rivellino
CF 9 Tostão
CF 10 Pelé


I mean... that's just unfair.

Indeed Bali. I didn't really get to see Pele until the 70 finals. 4 years earlier he was literally kicked out of the world cup by Hungary and Portugal in the group stage, part of the reason they didn't qualify for the quarter finals.

[Steveo]

Indeed Bali. I didn't really get to see Pele until the 70 finals. 4 years earlier he was literally kicked out of the world cup by Hungary and Portugal in the group stage, part of the reason they didn't qualify for the quarter finals.

My old fella was at both those games at the home of the BS.

That entire World Cup was doctored so the host nation had a huge helping hand.


https://youtu.be/j9hzBf3KSbs


FYI - Eusebio was the player he described as far and away the best that he saw in 66..

[skyebo]

My old fella was at both those games at the home of the BS.

That entire World Cup was doctored so the host nation had a huge helping hand.


https://youtu.be/j9hzBf3KSbs


FYI - Eusebio was the player he described as far and away the best that he saw in 66..

Yes he was a great player Steveo.

[Balinkay]

He's still in hospital. :(

Tabloids reporting it's got something to do with abstinence from an undisclosed substance. No idea if true though. :(


Fucking hell, I remember how distraught my dad was when I broke the news to him when Cryuff passed away. That was the only player he ever worshipped nearly as much as Don Diego. He doesn't need this shite, especially while battling the virus.

[LFC-DPG]

Good at footy that’s about it.

Time catches up with druggies. Surprised he’s lasted this long to be honest.

[LFC-DPG]

Goals change games and after the cheat scored it meant England had to open up and push for an equaliser.

2nd goal was a great goal no doubt but I’m not sure England would have been so open and easy to slalom past had it been 0-0.

[Steveo]

First hand account (no pun intended) from one of the best I ever saw in a red shirt on his favourite player.

From 16 mins


https://youtu.be/O8JFvC3_Z_c

[RedNoodle]

Good at footy that’s about it.

Time catches up with druggies. Surprised he’s lasted this long to be honest.

It seems that quite a few people who abuse their bodies (and perhaps other people) sail through life, or last a lot longer than they have any right to, whilst some poor bar-lambs (such as myself), who don't drink/smoke/take drugs/eat unhealthily develop all sorts of nasties, and are struck down a lot earlier than they deserve(d) to be.

[Steveo]

Hot off the press... 7th November 2020.. & the best movie on Maradona - no nonsense - no talk - just an unrivalled hour of sublime brilliance.


https://youtu.be/N8yPN-KEppE

[Balinkay]

That's one to watch.

I like how in the opening three minutes he seems to be playing on what amounts to a wet lunescape for about 2:55 of them. :D

[teesred]

He's still in hospital. :(

Tabloids reporting it's got something to do with abstinence from an undisclosed substance. No idea if true though. :(


Fucking hell, I remember how distraught my dad was when I broke the news to him when Cryuff passed away. That was the only player he ever worshipped nearly as much as Don Diego. He doesn't need this shite, especially while battling the virus.

Did you see that video of him last year when his entourage crowd around him during a game whilst he blatantly blasts a line of whiff into himself?
Its absolutely unbelievable but so blatant.

[Steveo]

That's one to watch.

I like how in the opening three minutes he seems to be playing on what amounts to a wet lunescape for about 2:55 of them. :D

Well worth a watch Bali. Some of the tackling is off the charts. Makes you realise why they changed the rules..

Great and comprehensive compilation..

[Balinkay]

Honestly thank fuck they did. Maybe it's a bit too soft now, but I wouldn't want to watch him get hacked down like that week in week out.

Didn't a keeper in Spain break his leg with some horror tackle on purpose or something? *shudder*