Cavani Should Face the same ban as Suarez

[miller0863]

Let’s just see how this one pans out. But I think the stench of outright hypocrisy will waft straight down the East Lancs from Manchester.

Cavani has been pulled for using exactly the same term used by Suarez to Patrice Evra.

He apparently wrote “Gracias Negrito”, in an exchange on Instagram.
Cavani believed he was using the term,commonly used in South America, in a friendly way.

Now that is precisely what Suarez said but Utd insisted it was racist and he should be punished and Suarez was fined £40,000 and banned for 8 matches.

According to the Daily Star he could be looking at a 3 game ban. Straight away what a shock, Suarez 8 games, Utd player facing 3 games.

Whether you believe it’s a racist remark whether intended or accidental, a president has been set and he should be banned for 8 games and fined.

You just know it won’t pan out like that though.

[g-man]

Let’s just see how this one pans out. But I think the stench of outright hypocrisy will waft straight down the East Lancs from Manchester.

Cavani has been pulled for using exactly the same term used by Suarez to Patrice Evra.

He apparently wrote “Gracias Negrito”, in an exchange on Instagram.
Cavani believed he was using the term,commonly used in South America, in a friendly way.

Now that is precisely what Suarez said but Utd insisted it was racist and he should be punished and Suarez was fined £40,000 and banned for 8 matches.

According to the Daily Star he could be looking at a 3 game ban. Straight away what a shock, Suarez 8 games, Utd player facing 3 games.

Whether you believe it’s a racist remark whether intended or accidental, a president has been set and he should be banned for 8 games and fined.

You just know it won’t pan out like that though.


It will likely go to VAR and fenandez will be awarded a penalty.

[miller0863]

It’s actually quite a serious point. Although neither player meant it as a racist insult, it has been deemed to be so.

The media, social media and the whole football family rallied round in support of poor old Patrice who said he couldn’t even bring himself to repeat it in the hearing and Suarez was roundly condemned as a racist.

So, here we are again, now with a Utd player (ironically) in exactly the same position and he should face exactly the same sanctions.

[justme]

He will get a one match ban like Silva at Man_city

[miller0863]

What did Silva do?

[justme]

It’s actually quite a serious point. Although neither player meant it as a racist insult, it has been deemed to be so.

The media, social media and the whole football family rallied round in support of poor old Patrice who said he couldn’t even bring himself to repeat it in the hearing and Suarez was roundly condemned as a racist.

So, here we are again, now with a Utd player (ironically) in exactly the same position and he should face exactly the same sanctions.
Theres videos of Evra himself using the N word which is even worse that this word. He was also homophobic.
Its all about intent and i dont think Cavani at all was being malicious in fact its a term of endearment in South America.
South americans shouldnt be tried for use of word in English. Unless its ourwardly obvious hateful..

I dont even think Cavani should face a ban personally. But the laws in English football are different. so doesnt matter about context..
Now its matter of how the FA see this.. When it came to Suarez they accused him of racism..

[miller0863]

It’s exactly the same term that Suarez used and he excused the use of the term in exactly the same way as Cavani so why the difference in ban length?

[justme]

What did Silva do?
Manchester City’s Bernardo Silva has been suspended for one game, fined £50,000 and must undergo education after a tweet sent to Benjamin Mendy was deemed to have constituted an “aggravated breach” of the Football Association’s rules on social media behaviour because it appeared to reference the French left-back’s race.




If I recall correctly he posted a little image of a black person on a tweet and said it was Mendy.

[miller0863]

Oh yeah I remember that now. It seems that in reacting exactly the same way as they did on the pitch, in surrounding the officials and screaming for maximum punishment for every little foul against them, they demanded more and the authorities caved in and gave them what they wanted.

[justme]

Yep and how they got off being banned from Europe for two years.. when they clearly broke all kinds of rules.

[southernboy]

Nothing will happen. Let’s be honest, Suarez was hated Long before the incident with Evra. The authorities just couldn’t wait to hang him out to dry. This will get brushed under the carpet before the week is out.

[Crimson Dynasty]

It’s exactly the same term that Suarez used and he excused the use of the term in exactly the same way as Cavani so why the difference in ban length?

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here just a little bit and push back just a tad on this.

Yes, it was the same word (or a derivation of it, rather than the exact same word), but are you really certain that it was used in exactly the dame way?
By this I mean, what was the context?

Let's not forget the exchange between Suarez and Evra was in the context of a heated confrontation between the two and the culmination of a back-and-forth that had been going on between them throughout that game.
There was no way, in retrospect, to have painted it as nothing but meaningless or friendly or "harmless banter" between two opposing players in the field - in much the way some had tried to paint it as - and insofar as Suarez tried to claim that it's normally a term of endearment in South America (and yes, it is), that argument just could not fly in the context of where and when he was using it then.

Further to that is the fact that Suarez and Evra are of different cultural and national dispositions with both coming from countries with different histories in racial issues - as well as different social contexts for racial relationships in the present.
Even being generous to Suarez and the culture from which he came (which Cavani also happens to come from being his countryman), he should have been sensitive or not more sensible in his use of that term to someone from a different country that has racial issues and with both in another country that has fraught racial issues itself. (South America has it's own racial issues and was the second largest epicenter of the Atlantic Slave trade, but the fact that the term can be and is used as a term of endearment there whereas it never would be in most other parts of the world, should tell you that they've come to a different way of dealing with those issues)

Now coming back to the Cavani situation, I'll fully disclose that I have no idea what the exchange was like between himself and the other person (hence why I asked for the context).
If it was not in the midst of a confrontation and was indeed just "banter" between two people of (South American) Latin descent wherein that term can't be perceived as being an insult or a slur, then you can't argue that it was the same at all like the Suarez and Evra situation. And likewise I don't believe the punishment should match .....just because........"Manc".

Society has to have higher standards than that, I believe.

I think the League in general mishandled that situation (the Suarez-Evra situation) as did our own club, just like I believe Evra (harmfully) over-played the victim bit in it in a way that's really harmful to the wider fight against racism.
Likewise I also believe a lot of people over-reacted with the Silva-Mendy situation last year when he was banned for 3 games, since we all knew the context of that one as well and it definitely was not an argument nor said in spite or malice.

There are situations where people and players are racially abused and where the racist perpetrators should be banned and buried beneath the dirt. But going after "soft" targets just because you're worried about the perception or backlash if you're not being seen to be equally tough on all - I (personally) believe is just more harmful in the overall cause than helpful.

Nuance is necessary.
Context matters.

Silva should have been punished, but more for ignorance than for malice or ill-intent.
Perhaps Cavani should be punished and banned too if it's uncovered that it was in the midst of a heated argument and he threw it in there to belittle the other person (in which case you don't get more racist than that)
And perhaps it might turn out that while the exchange was fairly non-belligerent and innocuous, he should STILL be punished but more for his ignorance in not knowing how harmful the term is in a different context in which he know is in, and even then the punishment should fit the crime, and not some (long held "grudge") standard of punishing everyone equally, regardless, just because the word was used, or just because he's a Manc (player) and now is the time to get them back.

This is a bigger issue than that.

[Kev0909]

One was instagram and one was real life

One could of said it in such a way..... etc etc

Can't really compare them otherwise 10 million people just in the UK would be arrested for hate-speach

Can't compare it all, just because klopps being whiney lately doesn't mean everyone has to join the bandwagon

Boring Zzzzzzzzz

so unfair blalblblabla so is life (not aimed at you just in general last few weeks all been crying)

Suarez 100% said it in a angry offensive way because he's a cunt

[Insidious]

He will get a one match ban like Silva at Man_city

Suspect it will be this.

[CCTV]

Let’s just see how this one pans out. But I think the stench of outright hypocrisy will waft straight down the East Lancs from Manchester.

Cavani has been pulled for using exactly the same term used by Suarez to Patrice Evra.

He apparently wrote “Gracias Negrito”, in an exchange on Instagram.
Cavani believed he was using the term,commonly used in South America, in a friendly way.

Now that is precisely what Suarez said but Utd insisted it was racist and he should be punished and Suarez was fined £40,000 and banned for 8 matches.

According to the Daily Star he could be looking at a 3 game ban. Straight away what a shock, Suarez 8 games, Utd player facing 3 games.

Whether you believe it’s a racist remark whether intended or accidental, a president has been set and he should be banned for 8 games and fined.

You just know it won’t pan out like that though.

Thanks pal for bringing this up, be interesting to see how an increasingly woke society justifies anything less than a greater punishment

Personally I'd rather see no punishment for Cavani and would like to see people accept different cultures. The cultural insensitivity shown to Suarez was disgraceful.

[CCTV]

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here just a little bit and push back just a tad on this.

Yes, it was the same word (or a derivation of it, rather than the exact same word), but are you really certain that it was used in exactly the dame way?
By this I mean, what was the context?

Let's not forget the exchange between Suarez and Evra was in the context of a heated confrontation between the two and the culmination of a back-and-forth that had been going on between them throughout that game.
There was no way, in retrospect, to have painted it as nothing but meaningless or friendly or "harmless banter" between two opposing players in the field - in much the way some had tried to paint it as - and insofar as Suarez tried to claim that it's normally a term of endearment in South America (and yes, it is), that argument just could not fly in the context of where and when he was using it then.

Further to that is the fact that Suarez and Evra are of different cultural and national dispositions with both coming from countries with different histories in racial issues - as well as different social contexts for racial relationships in the present.
Even being generous to Suarez and the culture from which he came (which Cavani also happens to come from being his countryman), he should have been sensitive or not more sensible in his use of that term to someone from a different country that has racial issues and with both in another country that has fraught racial issues itself. (South America has it's own racial issues and was the second largest epicenter of the Atlantic Slave trade, but the fact that the term can be and is used as a term of endearment there whereas it never would be in most other parts of the world, should tell you that they've come to a different way of dealing with those issues)

Now coming back to the Cavani situation, I'll fully disclose that I have no idea what the exchange was like between himself and the other person (hence why I asked for the context).
If it was not in the midst of a confrontation and was indeed just "banter" between two people of (South American) Latin descent wherein that term can't be perceived as being an insult or a slur, then you can't argue that it was the same at all like the Suarez and Evra situation. And likewise I don't believe the punishment should match .....just because........"Manc".

Society has to have higher standards than that, I believe.

I think the League in general mishandled that situation (the Suarez-Evra situation) as did our own club, just like I believe Evra (harmfully) over-played the victim bit in it in a way that's really harmful to the wider fight against racism.
Likewise I also believe a lot of people over-reacted with the Silva-Mendy situation last year when he was banned for 3 games, since we all knew the context of that one as well and it definitely was not an argument nor said in spite or malice.

There are situations where people and players are racially abused and where the racist perpetrators should be banned and buried beneath the dirt. But going after "soft" targets just because you're worried about the perception or backlash if you're not being seen to be equally tough on all - I (personally) believe is just more harmful in the overall cause than helpful.

Nuance is necessary.
Context matters.

Silva should have been punished, but more for ignorance than for malice or ill-intent.
Perhaps Cavani should be punished and banned too if it's uncovered that it was in the midst of a heated argument and he threw it in there to belittle the other person (in which case you don't get more racist than that)
And perhaps it might turn out that while the exchange was fairly non-belligerent and innocuous, he should STILL be punished but more for his ignorance in not knowing how harmful the term is in a different context in which he know is in, and even then the punishment should fit the crime, and not some (long held "grudge") standard of punishing everyone equally, regardless, just because the word was used, or just because he's a Manc (player) and now is the time to get them back.

This is a bigger issue than that.

Fuck off pal with this load of nonsense.

Pal is an affectionate term that can be inserted into a fuck off pal frame.
It doesn't make the word pal change into a hate crime.

Suarez was hung out to dry for a small matter and as pointed out Evra himself has run foul of his own sensitivities which imo were put on for malicious intent. A vindictive little shit.
Great left back in his time though.

[CCTV]

Also Milner its precedent and unlikely Cavani was unaware of the shitfest involving Suarez.

[Insidious]

It’s exactly the same term that Suarez used and he excused the use of the term in exactly the same way as Cavani so why the difference in ban length?

Suarez said "negro" (pronounced "neh-gro") on one occasion, if his version of events is accurate.

"Negrito" is a, for want of a better word, "softer" word again. One is a physical characteristic descriptive (which in South American culture seems to be "fine") whilst the other is a touch more endearing despite having the same basic meaning.

A comparison I could make in terms of how it might be viewed through an English-speaking lens would be a couple where ("Negrito" comparison) a fella who has been with his wife for 30 years with a pre-established, banterish relationship might affectionately grab the Missus' love handles and say "my chunky Muffin" which, in their relationship context, is a term of endearment (even if it might go down a stinker with other people and even though he is basically calling her fat) whereas "Negro" would simply be the word "fat" - I have friends who would call THEMSELVES fat and I would say "fat" as a descriptive in certain contexts, but we all know that referring to someone as "fat" is, at best, open to interpretation and at worst (and often used this way at school age or amongst arseholes) packs a malicious punch.

So to use this comparison (again, I know it isn't the best) imagine referring to a woman you were in a competitive environment with (playing Chess, both trying to grab the last of an item in the Supermarket) and busting out the "fat" word - it's only going to be taken one way no matter what your intent, whatever your thoughts on that are, versus the friendly pseudo-ridicule of your curvy Missus who is very comfortable with having an extra slice of Pizza rather than hitting the Gym and pokes fun at herself for it. You might think (for example) that it's better to let people know they are far as tough love so they exercise more/eat better/live longer and be genuinely using the word from a place of good wishes as you hate seeing your mate out of breath, but that isn't going to matter to most folk, etc etc.

Given that Suarez himself said he used "negro" (excerpts from his book, referenced in the Guardian) it would suggest that "Negrito" came from somewhere else - perhaps even our PR team - though I truthfully have no desire to go back and analyse everything as it's a period our Club and fanbase could likely do with forgetting - I remember wincing when I saw that "Klanfield" newspaper article and not wanting to wear a Liverpool top for a few months in case it was taken to be a right-wing emblem for a bit by some of Northern Ireland's resident nutjobs that I wouldn't want to be associated with.

[Taksin]

Fuck off pal with this load of nonsense.

Pal is an affectionate term that can be inserted into a fuck off pal frame.
It doesn't make the word pal change into a hate crime.

Suarez was hung out to dry for a small matter and as pointed out Evra himself has run foul of his own sensitivities which imo were put on for malicious intent. A vindictive little shit.
Great left back in his time though.

Evra had been calling his mother a whore.. I've always thought it strange that he then became such a shrinking violet in response to a term that in Spanish is actually politically correct. People don't realise how the plasticity of English causes us to tie ourselves in knots enforcing the correct term. The recent example of the guy getting sacked - who was that again? - for referring to coloured people when people of colour is the new correct term comes to mind.

[Taksin]

The Mendy and Silva scandal was amusing because they are best mates and Mendy actually agreed that he did look like that racist cartoon character (which he did). John Barnes came to their defence on the basis that we shouldn't get upset by cartoons of black people having big red lips, rather we should get used to the fact that big lips are part of black reality.

In all these difficulties, the thought that characters at the FA will be more generous to the needs of black people than Silva is to his best mate is ridiculous and part of the ongoing neurosis that focusing on race problems causes us all.

[vin]

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here just a little bit and push back just a tad on this.

Yes, it was the same word (or a derivation of it, rather than the exact same word), but are you really certain that it was used in exactly the dame way?
By this I mean, what was the context?

Let's not forget the exchange between Suarez and Evra was in the context of a heated confrontation between the two and the culmination of a back-and-forth that had been going on between them throughout that game.
There was no way, in retrospect, to have painted it as nothing but meaningless or friendly or "harmless banter" between two opposing players in the field - in much the way some had tried to paint it as - and insofar as Suarez tried to claim that it's normally a term of endearment in South America (and yes, it is), that argument just could not fly in the context of where and when he was using it then.

Further to that is the fact that Suarez and Evra are of different cultural and national dispositions with both coming from countries with different histories in racial issues - as well as different social contexts for racial relationships in the present.
Even being generous to Suarez and the culture from which he came (which Cavani also happens to come from being his countryman), he should have been sensitive or not more sensible in his use of that term to someone from a different country that has racial issues and with both in another country that has fraught racial issues itself. (South America has it's own racial issues and was the second largest epicenter of the Atlantic Slave trade, but the fact that the term can be and is used as a term of endearment there whereas it never would be in most other parts of the world, should tell you that they've come to a different way of dealing with those issues)

Now coming back to the Cavani situation, I'll fully disclose that I have no idea what the exchange was like between himself and the other person (hence why I asked for the context).
If it was not in the midst of a confrontation and was indeed just "banter" between two people of (South American) Latin descent wherein that term can't be perceived as being an insult or a slur, then you can't argue that it was the same at all like the Suarez and Evra situation. And likewise I don't believe the punishment should match .....just because........"Manc".

Society has to have higher standards than that, I believe.

I think the League in general mishandled that situation (the Suarez-Evra situation) as did our own club, just like I believe Evra (harmfully) over-played the victim bit in it in a way that's really harmful to the wider fight against racism.
Likewise I also believe a lot of people over-reacted with the Silva-Mendy situation last year when he was banned for 3 games, since we all knew the context of that one as well and it definitely was not an argument nor said in spite or malice.

There are situations where people and players are racially abused and where the racist perpetrators should be banned and buried beneath the dirt. But going after "soft" targets just because you're worried about the perception or backlash if you're not being seen to be equally tough on all - I (personally) believe is just more harmful in the overall cause than helpful.

Nuance is necessary.
Context matters.

Silva should have been punished, but more for ignorance than for malice or ill-intent.
Perhaps Cavani should be punished and banned too if it's uncovered that it was in the midst of a heated argument and he threw it in there to belittle the other person (in which case you don't get more racist than that)
And perhaps it might turn out that while the exchange was fairly non-belligerent and innocuous, he should STILL be punished but more for his ignorance in not knowing how harmful the term is in a different context in which he know is in, and even then the punishment should fit the crime, and not some (long held "grudge") standard of punishing everyone equally, regardless, just because the word was used, or just because he's a Manc (player) and now is the time to get them back.

This is a bigger issue than that.

You just saved me typing a response.

Context is everything.

[Kev0909]

"affectionate manner"

"The Uruguayan international shared an Instagram story from a fan, using a racially offensive term. The post has since been deleted"

He didn't even fucking say it for fuck sake, he was sharing something in his eyes was nice and saying thank you

Only in wetwipe UK context is a huge thing for fuck sake, then again it's the same country that's changed baa baa black sheep, and fairytale of new york on the main radio station

This country must be the softest in the world

It's a joke if he gets a longish ban tbh, even if he is a manc would be fuming if it was one of our players

Ban same as suarez?? VAR getting to some heads

[vin]

"affectionate manner"

"The Uruguayan international shared an Instagram story from a fan, using a racially offensive term. The post has since been deleted"

He didn't even fucking say it for fuck sake, he was sharing something in his eyes was nice and saying thank you

Only in wetwipe UK context is a huge thing for fuck sake, then again it's the same country that's changed baa baa black sheep, and fairytale of new york on the main radio station

This country must be the softest in the world

It's a joke if he gets a longish ban tbh, even if he is a manc would be fuming if it was one of our players

Ban same as suarez?? VAR getting to some heads

Have they changed Baa baa black sheep?

[JAYPEA]

You just saved me typing a response.

Context is everything.

This. Read with interest the comments.

This is very different to Suarez who was ‘found’ guilty of using an offensive term 7 times to a player in a running heated battle with the very purpose of abusing. I expect this one to be a rap on knuckles and education piece and would think that should suffice based on context.

To compare the two is frankly ridiculous. Suarez was a shameful incident on the club and to all of our black supporters and those of us with black and mixed race children and families. I got dogs abuse on here for wanting Suarez out for this and the biting. Apparently that was disloyal and offensive. I chose to find it more offensive that someone wearing my shirt would do what he did and that many of my fellow reds were apologists for that because of who he did it to. He wasn’t accidentally racist he was deliberately repeatedly racist then lied to kenny, to fucking Kenny making him look a twat. Doesn’t matter whether it’s a shit like evra or United or a port vale player in a cup. Racism and a stance against it is and should have been bigger than the rivalry with them.

Was glad when Jamie expressed regret of the support he gave Suarez. I think his and Terry’s racism was a watershed moment as far as players are concerned.

Glad these days are behind us and hope we would deal with it better if it happened again both as a club and fans. And same at Chelsea. Keeping him as captain and keeping his legend banner up.

[CCTV]

Have they changed Baa baa black sheep?

"A warning that the nursery rhyme Baa Baa Black Sheep should not be taught in schools because it is "racially offensive" has been scrapped.

The guidelines by education chiefs at Birmingham City Council were dropped after black parents condemned the advice as ridiculous....."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/600470.stm

I wonder if it has been reinstated since 2000 as these control freaks rarely give up on their various causes.
----------
2014
“Baa Baa Black Sheep” has been deemed racist, and will no longer be sung at some child care centers in Australia. The classic nursery rhyme was penned in the early 1700s, and has been a preschool staple around the world. Some child care centers in Melbourne changed the phrases in “Baa Baa Black Sheep” because administrators feel it is both racist and sexist.

In an effort to reflect a “multicultural community,” the “Baa Baa Black Sheep” nursery rhyme the staff at south-eastern Melbourne suburbs child care centers told the Herald Sun the lyric was being changed because of concerns over the racial connotations of the term “black.” Kindergarten teachers at the early childhood education centers reportedly told the newspaper that the line, “one for the little boy who lives down the lane” may also be changed to avoid any sexist connotations.

https://www.inquisitr.com/1551979/baa-baa-black-sheep-deemed-racist/

I wonder if you could sue the state for making you a racist (sexist too) by this far right playschool indoctrination !!

[faridtoxteth]

Dirk Kuyt at the time said Suarez used the term 'negrito'. In South American culture it is not offensive and can even be considered a term of affection. But Alex Ferguson saw the opportunity to create a shit storm around Suarez, who he saw as single handedly raising Liverpool's level to make them title contenders. He was subsequently banned by the FA (full of old racists by the way) and it played a part in driving him out of English football.
There is a Rolling Stones song called 'Hey Negrita'. I don't see or hear anyone complaining about it. And Luis Suarez's grandfather was black btw (nearly forgot to mention that).

[skyebo]

Dirk Kuyt at the time said Suarez used the term 'negrito'. In South American culture it is not offensive and can even be considered a term of affection. But Alex Ferguson saw the opportunity to create a shit storm around Suarez, who he saw as single handedly raising Liverpool's level to make them title contenders. He was subsequently banned by the FA (full of old racists by the way) and it played a part in driving him out of English football.
There is a Rolling Stones song called 'Hey Negrita'. I don't see or hear anyone complaining about it. And Luis Suarez's grandfather was black btw (nearly forgot to mention that).

If Suarez wanted to use a word of affection he could have chosen plenty of different ones.

[CCTV]

Suarez said "negro" (pronounced "neh-gro") on one occasion, if his version of events is accurate.

"Negrito" is a, for want of a better word, "softer" word again. One is a physical characteristic descriptive (which in South American culture seems to be "fine") whilst the other is a touch more endearing despite having the same basic meaning.

A comparison I could make in terms of how it might be viewed through an English-speaking lens would be a couple where ("Negrito" comparison) a fella who has been with his wife for 30 years with a pre-established, banterish relationship might affectionately grab the Missus' love handles and say "my chunky Muffin" which, in their relationship context, is a term of endearment (even if it might go down a stinker with other people and even though he is basically calling her fat) whereas "Negro" would simply be the word "fat" - I have friends who would call THEMSELVES fat and I would say "fat" as a descriptive in certain contexts, but we all know that referring to someone as "fat" is, at best, open to interpretation and at worst (and often used this way at school age or amongst arseholes) packs a malicious punch.

So to use this comparison (again, I know it isn't the best) imagine referring to a woman you were in a competitive environment with (playing Chess, both trying to grab the last of an item in the Supermarket) and busting out the "fat" word - it's only going to be taken one way no matter what your intent, whatever your thoughts on that are, versus the friendly pseudo-ridicule of your curvy Missus who is very comfortable with having an extra slice of Pizza rather than hitting the Gym and pokes fun at herself for it. You might think (for example) that it's better to let people know they are far as tough love so they exercise more/eat better/live longer and be genuinely using the word from a place of good wishes as you hate seeing your mate out of breath, but that isn't going to matter to most folk, etc etc.

Given that Suarez himself said he used "negro" (excerpts from his book, referenced in the Guardian) it would suggest that "Negrito" came from somewhere else - perhaps even our PR team - though I truthfully have no desire to go back and analyse everything as it's a period our Club and fanbase could likely do with forgetting - I remember wincing when I saw that "Klanfield" newspaper article and not wanting to wear a Liverpool top for a few months in case it was taken to be a right-wing emblem for a bit by some of Northern Ireland's resident nutjobs that I wouldn't want to be associated with.

The BMI chart is a hate chart. It objectified me.

The tragically peculiar part of the control freak wokeist movement imo is that under its guise of helping people it produces a decline in resilience and we see an increase in anxiety disorders, depression, self harm and suicide rates.
New age blasphemy laws imo.

[CCTV]

Evra had been calling his mother a whore.. I've always thought it strange that he then became such a shrinking violet in response to a term that in Spanish is actually politically correct. People don't realise how the plasticity of English causes us to tie ourselves in knots enforcing the correct term. The recent example of the guy getting sacked - who was that again? - for referring to coloured people when people of colour is the new correct term comes to mind.

And what punishment did Evra receive for his vile misogynistic slagging of Suarezs Mother ?

Or did the fa tacitly endorse misogyny at that time?

As an aside I see Macron is an Islamophobe now.
Joining Corbyn, Bojo, Cleese, the Dalai Lama, Champion, Rowling, Sanders, Trump, Biden, HRC in the verbally pernicious far right.

[skyebo]

And what punishment did Evra receive for his vile misogynistic slagging of Suarezs Mother ?

Or did the fa tacitly endorse misogyny at that time?

As an aside I see Macron is an Islamophobe now.
Joining Corbyn, Bojo, Cleese, the Dalai Lama, Champion, Rowling, Sanders, Trump, Biden, HRC in the verbally pernicious far right.

There was wrong on both sides. Suarez was an exceptional player, but for us, more trouble than he was worth.

[faridtoxteth]

Alan Hansen was coerced to leave his job at Match of the Day after he used the term 'coloured' to describe a black player. He was just a bit of a cultural dinosaur, using a term that was in full common use when he was a player. The idea that a man like Alan Hansen is a racist is ridiculous.
The main body in America which fights for the rights of black people has been for years, and is still, the N.A.A.C.P. (The national Association for the Advancement of Coloured People)

[miller0863]

Glad the thread is doing what it was posted for, encouraging open debate.

I still maintain Suarez was banned for using the very same term used by Cavani.

Much in the same way Evra became a shrinking violet in the hearing saying he couldn’t bring himself to repeat the word, yet was subsequently filmed frequently using far worse himself, it will be said that using it here wasn’t racist whereas because Suarez used it, it was.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is mine and I’m not going to start trying to change other people’s opinion on it, each to their own.

I just do not subscribe to the “context is everything” vibe. It is either a racist term, or it isn’t. It was decided it was and the precedent set.

That’s it for me, that’s how I see it, it was deemed a racist remark so don’t use it.

[CCTV]

There was wrong on both sides. Suarez was an exceptional player, but for us, more trouble than he was worth.

Of course there was wrong on both sides if we are setting our moral standards very high.
They both spoke impolitely.

It is part of the game though as people try to rile up their opponent, or harass refs for cards to be given.

[JAYPEA]

Of course there was wrong on both sides if we are setting our moral standards very high.
They both spoke impolitely.

It is part of the game though as people try to rile up their opponent, or harass refs for cards to be given.

Absolutely.

It is not however part of any game I want, to mock and abuse opponents however awful he may be by using their ethnicity or skin colour. Mocking and riling is not protected by law whereas ethnicity is along with 8 other personal protected characteristics

[JAYPEA]

Glad the thread is doing what it was posted for, encouraging open debate.

I still maintain Suarez was banned for using the very same term used by Cavani.

Much in the same way Evra became a shrinking violet in the hearing saying he couldn’t bring himself to repeat the word, yet was subsequently filmed frequently using far worse himself, it will be said that using it here wasn’t racist whereas because Suarez used it, it was.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is mine and I’m not going to start trying to change other people’s opinion on it, each to their own.

I just do not subscribe to the “context is everything” vibe. It is either a racist term, or it isn’t. It was decided it was and the precedent set.

That’s it for me, that’s how I see it, it was deemed a racist remark so don’t use it.

A word becomes racist based on context. The words black or bastard are not racist. Out them together with the intention to abuse and belittle someone you perceive to be inferior then it is. Saying that ‘dustbin is black’ is not racist. Now am not saying this player doesn’t have some case to answer but to suggest it’s same gravity as Suarez is absolutely ridiculous.

Abuse evra. Abuse Stirling on the pitch or from the stands but never ever make it about their skin colour to do so is the act of scum and to in any way defend that in an age of more enlightenment and understanding very sad.

[CCTV]

Absolutely.

It is not however part of any game I want, to mock and abuse opponents however awful he may be by using their ethnicity or skin colour. Mocking and riling is not protected by law whereas ethnicity is along with 8 other personal protected characteristics

Maybe you could program some robots to perform the tasks you like.
I hear they are making progress on that front with actors/actresses etc, might not be suitable to football though.

Sex/gender is a protected characteristic on that list of 9 (the list of 9 is also in conflict as to whether Macrons an Islamophobe or Jihadis cutting the heads of French people are francophobes).
Now cutting peoples heads off isn't really for debate as it's a greater crime, but theres a lot o argumentation around whether blspheming against Islam is a hate crime or whether hating Frances satirical culture is a hate crime.

Did the fa tacitly endorse misogyny by not banning Evra for his comments too ?
Did you (would you) call for an equal ban for Evra, a greater/lesser punishment or no punishment at all ?

[CCTV]

A word becomes racist based on context. The words black or bastard are not racist. Out them together with the intention to abuse and belittle someone you perceive to be inferior then it is. Saying that ‘dustbin is black’ is not racist. Now am not saying this player doesn’t have some case to answer but to suggest it’s same gravity as Suarez is absolutely ridiculous.

Abuse evra. Abuse Stirling on the pitch or from the stands but never ever make it about their skin colour to do so is the act of scum and to in any way defend that in an age of more enlightenment and understanding very sad.

How is calling someone a black barsteward racist if you are not calling all blacks bastards.

How is calling someone a nice black man not racist ? Or is it racist too ? Should you only say hes a nice man?

If you say hes a nice man, is that not sexist ?
Should you say they are a nice person to avoid using gendered language which can cause others anxiety.

If you say they are a nice person, is that not wormself/pixiekin/genderfluid exclusionary ? Thus another hate crime.

You can start out with some nice intent, but it ends up in a barrel of shit imo.

I read a piece from the UK today about a mairead philpott being released after seven years having set fire to her and her partners house with her partner and their friend, intent on blaming his former partner for the fire, whereby their/her 6 kids were killed.
Just over one year for each child that died in a fire they set on their own home intentionally, yet i believe you could under British law serve 6 months for a tweet that is deemed a hate crime even if there was no intent or actual victim.

14 tweets (even retweets) some a matter of fact could see you serve as much prison time as a conviction for the manslaughter of 6 children.

[miller0863]

I hope you are not suggesting I have defended the use of what has been deemed a racist term Jaypea. I have merely suggested that both used the same word, directed at a black person, both should be treated the same.
It cannot have escaped Cavani’s notice how his International team mate was castigated for his use of the term, he has no excuse.

[faridtoxteth]

I hope you are not suggesting I have defended the use of what has been deemed a racist term Jaypea. I have merely suggested that both used the same word, directed at a black person, both should be treated the same.
It cannot have escaped Cavani’s notice how his International team mate was castigated for his use of the term, he has no excuse.

He has an excuse if it isn't an offensive term in the first place.

[vin]

"A warning that the nursery rhyme Baa Baa Black Sheep should not be taught in schools because it is "racially offensive" has been scrapped.

The guidelines by education chiefs at Birmingham City Council were dropped after black parents condemned the advice as ridiculous....."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/600470.stm

I wonder if it has been reinstated since 2000 as these control freaks rarely give up on their various causes.
----------
2014
“Baa Baa Black Sheep” has been deemed racist, and will no longer be sung at some child care centers in Australia. The classic nursery rhyme was penned in the early 1700s, and has been a preschool staple around the world. Some child care centers in Melbourne changed the phrases in “Baa Baa Black Sheep” because administrators feel it is both racist and sexist.

In an effort to reflect a “multicultural community,” the “Baa Baa Black Sheep” nursery rhyme the staff at south-eastern Melbourne suburbs child care centers told the Herald Sun the lyric was being changed because of concerns over the racial connotations of the term “black.” Kindergarten teachers at the early childhood education centers reportedly told the newspaper that the line, “one for the little boy who lives down the lane” may also be changed to avoid any sexist connotations.

https://www.inquisitr.com/1551979/baa-baa-black-sheep-deemed-racist/

I wonder if you could sue the state for making you a racist (sexist too) by this far right playschool indoctrination !!

So Baa Baa black sheep hasn't been dropped in good old Ingurland. But maybe in Australia? It's amazing how much misinformation or partial truths (and that's giving it more credibility than it deserves) become accepted as "truth"

As for this Suarez / Cavani comparisons. We are clutching at straws. I can't say for sure how Suarez meant it. But in a heated game, and his temperament you have to question it.

I was teaching my twin 5 year olds about Martin Luther King (School Black History month project). I used the same text for both of them. When we went over it - one of them said "dark skin" and "light skin" the other "White people & Dark people" - not really relevant but interesting

[vin]

Glad the thread is doing what it was posted for, encouraging open debate.

I still maintain Suarez was banned for using the very same term used by Cavani.

Much in the same way Evra became a shrinking violet in the hearing saying he couldn’t bring himself to repeat the word, yet was subsequently filmed frequently using far worse himself, it will be said that using it here wasn’t racist whereas because Suarez used it, it was.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is mine and I’m not going to start trying to change other people’s opinion on it, each to their own.

I just do not subscribe to the “context is everything” vibe. It is either a racist term, or it isn’t. It was decided it was and the precedent set.

That’s it for me, that’s how I see it, it was deemed a racist remark so don’t use it.

"Context is everything" is not a vibe.

If I call a mate a dozy old cunt when we are messing around - it's fine. Should I call a copper a dozy old cunt - the consequences would be different.

Likewise. Would I use the "N" word as term of abuse - never. Have I used the "N" word with friends who are black, that I've known for years (I'm brown btw). Yes - I have. And for clarity - my friends come round as greet me with the Denzil Washington line "my ni**a" - to which i reply the same way.

If we were playing football - I wouldn't call any of them that on the pitch, nor the opposition.

[JAYPEA]

I hope you are not suggesting I have defended the use of what has been deemed a racist term Jaypea. I have merely suggested that both used the same word, directed at a black person, both should be treated the same.
It cannot have escaped Cavani’s notice how his International team mate was castigated for his use of the term, he has no excuse.

No I wasn’t apologies if it came across like that.

[JAYPEA]

Maybe you could program some robots to perform the tasks you like.
I hear they are making progress on that front with actors/actresses etc, might not be suitable to football though.

Sex/gender is a protected characteristic on that list of 9 (the list of 9 is also in conflict as to whether Macrons an Islamophobe or Jihadis cutting the heads of French people are francophobes).
Now cutting peoples heads off isn't really for debate as it's a greater crime, but theres a lot o argumentation around whether blspheming against Islam is a hate crime or whether hating Frances satirical culture is a hate crime.

Did the fa tacitly endorse misogyny by not banning Evra for his comments too ?
Did you (would you) call for an equal ban for Evra, a greater/lesser punishment or no punishment at all ?

Fair points. I think sexism is taken more seriously now than was 8 years ago or so when this happened. With the female ‘linesmen’ promotion of women’s football by the FA BBC etc. Society and therefore authorities deem racism worse and more of a no go. In same way Jimmy Carr or Frankie Boyle mock women, people with disabilities including downs, religion, paedo priests etc but they stay clear of mocking skin colour. Although all these along with age, sexual orientation etc are protected under the same legislation.

As for France not sure what their laws say the Equality Act 2010 is UK not EU legislation.

[worldpanel]

It’s actually quite a serious point. Although neither player meant it as a racist insult, it has been deemed to be so.

The media, social media and the whole football family rallied round in support of poor old Patrice who said he couldn’t even bring himself to repeat it in the hearing and Suarez was roundly condemned as a racist.

So, here we are again, now with a Utd player (ironically) in exactly the same position and he should face exactly the same sanctions.

Let's ask Patrice for his verdict

[LEGS]

I think Cavani will get a ban for it probably a few games like Silva did.

As for Evra he is a sandwich short of a picnic you only have to watch him as a pundit he is imo a complete arsehole and there is various things to back it up 1.fighting his own fans 2.leading France team on strike 3.Appearing on a rap song using the N word more than once.

As for Suarez GREAT player but on the pitch he isnt a nice chap we saw this whilst playing for us and how he behaved playing against us in thr CL.

[CCTV]

So Baa Baa black sheep hasn't been dropped in good old Ingurland. But maybe in Australia? It's amazing how much misinformation or partial truths (and that's giving it more credibility than it deserves) become accepted as "truth"

As for this Suarez / Cavani comparisons. We are clutching at straws. I can't say for sure how Suarez meant it. But in a heated game, and his temperament you have to question it.

I was teaching my twin 5 year olds about Martin Luther King (School Black History month project). I used the same text for both of them. When we went over it - one of them said "dark skin" and "light skin" the other "White people & Dark people" - not really relevant but interesting

Heres the wikipedia page on the uk.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baa,_Baa,_Black_Sheep
True, are you on about something specifically?

In a heated game where 2 opponents of rival clubs are shouting at each other, wouldn't it be reasonably inferred that neither are being affectionate, polite, respectful in a conventional sense, yet respectful to the/that game itself.

Not read that book. The book is only one input, lots more at play.
Guessing its age appropriate :)

At a wild guess, first one seems a bit more girly, second one more funny :)
Black history month and neither refer to the word black people

[Kev0909]

I don't think it's officially changed much but i've heard loads of reports in schools etc they don't use it anymore / a slight modification.

Either way it's mad like the context of "faggot" in fairytale of new york.... radio1 muting it out!

some people think just saying "black" is racist these days!!

Disclaimer **** I hate any form of hate, but I know the difference between hate and no hate... if that makes sense

I personally think it's mad if cavani get's a longish ban at all, obviously just shared it not thinking much of it, and a way of saying thanks kinda (hence sharing it)!

Never really heard of the word before, it's more of a foreign word? IDK

Let's face it, only people that care is the FA any sane person would know it wasn't harmful / aimed to be harmful in any way

[philfatkid]

It is a fascinating debate, surely it can only be racist if it's intended to be racist, and not perceived to be racist ? but who decides ?

Around 5 years ago i was a foreman for a gang of 20 men who travelled around England for 3 years, refurbishing Prudential insurance offices, 2 of the lads never got on, at all, so we tried to keep them apart, as much as possible, any way one day a massive row broke out, the shouting could be heard 2 floors below, i got up there to see Dennis (who was of Jamaican descent) being held back from Geoff, who was, shall we say was more than a little over weight, it turns out Geoff called Dennis a black bastard, and it was heard by someone other than us that worked for the company, so i tried to get to the bottom of it and get all the details, as i knew it would be going further.
I asked everyone who was in earshot, it turns Dennis called Geoff a fat c**t, the up shot being, that at the HR meeting i had to attend, they decided that being called a fat C**t was no provocation for using racist language, and Geoff was sacked ! to this day i'm not sure that was the right outcome, in fact right after the incident, Geoff was much more angry than Dennis.

[RedNoodle]

@Philfatkid

Unfortunately we live in a world where it's ok to be openly abusive towards/discriminate against certain types of people, but completely unacceptable to even say or do anything that could be perceived as doing the same towards certain other groups.

[vin]

I don't think it's officially changed much but i've heard loads of reports in schools etc they don't use it anymore / a slight modification.

Either way it's mad like the context of "faggot" in fairytale of new york.... radio1 muting it out!

some people think just saying "black" is racist these days!!

Disclaimer **** I hate any form of hate, but I know the difference between hate and no hate... if that makes sense

I personally think it's mad if cavani get's a longish ban at all, obviously just shared it not thinking much of it, and a way of saying thanks kinda (hence sharing it)!

Never really heard of the word before, it's more of a foreign word? IDK

Let's face it, only people that care is the FA any sane person would know it wasn't harmful / aimed to be harmful in any way

I think there was some stuff around "blackboards" but how many schools still have those?

[vin]

It is a fascinating debate, surely it can only be racist if it's intended to be racist, and not perceived to be racist ? but who decides ?

Around 5 years ago i was a foreman for a gang of 20 men who travelled around England for 3 years, refurbishing Prudential insurance offices, 2 of the lads never got on, at all, so we tried to keep them apart, as much as possible, any way one day a massive row broke out, the shouting could be heard 2 floors below, i got up there to see Dennis (who was of Jamaican descent) being held back from Geoff, who was, shall we say was more than a little over weight, it turns out Geoff called Dennis a black bastard, and it was heard by someone other than us that worked for the company, so i tried to get to the bottom of it and get all the details, as i knew it would be going further.
I asked everyone who was in earshot, it turns Dennis called Geoff a fat c**t, the up shot being, that at the HR meeting i had to attend, they decided that being called a fat C**t was no provocation for using racist language, and Geoff was sacked ! to this day i'm not sure that was the right outcome, in fact right after the incident, Geoff was much more angry than Dennis.

Was Dennis reprimanded at all?

[justme]

The blackboard thing is nonsense.. They have mostly been replaced by white boards that you can use felt-tips on . Simply because its easier to write with a feltip than a piece of chalk.
(and no its not been replaced because its white :D :D )

[justme]

Did you hear about the radio presenter being suspended for saying 2 players were fighting like handbag during a football commentary?
Now thats OTT. Obviously not the same as racism.
But sometimes things aren't meant as racism but get classed it anyway. Like i said i dont even think Cavani should be banned.. Just a warning will be acceptable. But he will be banned anyway..

[skyebo]

Did you hear about the radio presenter being suspended for saying 2 players were fighting like handbag during a football commentary?
Now thats OTT. Obviously not the same as racism.
But sometimes things aren't meant as racism but get classed it anyway. Like i said i dont even think Cavani should be banned.. Just a warning will be acceptable. But he will be banned anyway..

They got rid of Andy Gray and Richard Keys over a nothing incident, just because Charlotte Jackson couldn't take a joke, and went running to her bosses. Political correctness has now gone way over the top in all sorts of ways.

[redebreck]

"affectionate manner"

"The Uruguayan international shared an Instagram story from a fan, using a racially offensive term. The post has since been deleted"

He didn't even fucking say it for fuck sake, he was sharing something in his eyes was nice and saying thank you

Only in wetwipe UK context is a huge thing for fuck sake, then again it's the same country that's changed baa baa black sheep, and fairytale of new york on the main radio station

This country must be the softest in the world

It's a joke if he gets a longish ban tbh, even if he is a manc would be fuming if it was one of our players

Ban same as suarez?? VAR getting to some heads


"A warning that the nursery rhyme Baa Baa Black Sheep should not be taught in schools because it is "racially offensive" has been scrapped.

The guidelines by education chiefs at Birmingham City Council were dropped after black parents condemned the advice as ridiculous....."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/600470.stm

I wonder if it has been reinstated since 2000 as these control freaks rarely give up on their various causes.
----------
2014
“Baa Baa Black Sheep” has been deemed racist, and will no longer be sung at some child care centers in Australia. The classic nursery rhyme was penned in the early 1700s, and has been a preschool staple around the world. Some child care centers in Melbourne changed the phrases in “Baa Baa Black Sheep” because administrators feel it is both racist and sexist.

In an effort to reflect a “multicultural community,” the “Baa Baa Black Sheep” nursery rhyme the staff at south-eastern Melbourne suburbs child care centers told the Herald Sun the lyric was being changed because of concerns over the racial connotations of the term “black.” Kindergarten teachers at the early childhood education centers reportedly told the newspaper that the line, “one for the little boy who lives down the lane” may also be changed to avoid any sexist connotations.

https://www.inquisitr.com/1551979/baa-baa-black-sheep-deemed-racist/

I wonder if you could sue the state for making you a racist (sexist too) by this far right playschool indoctrination !!

We should sue the state for being fecking idiots.
I can't believe all the crap now going on. It's all being done by white people trying to appease people who aren't white.

[miller0863]

And usually about things that non white people are not offended by, which causes trouble where there wasn’t any.
It wasn’t long ago Birmingham City council wanted to ban all mentions of Christmas and call it the “Winter Festival,” as Christmas is offensive to none Christians.

That is the sort of complete nonsense that makes my blood boil.

[Taksin]

It is a fascinating debate, surely it can only be racist if it's intended to be racist, and not perceived to be racist ? but who decides ?

Around 5 years ago i was a foreman for a gang of 20 men who travelled around England for 3 years, refurbishing Prudential insurance offices, 2 of the lads never got on, at all, so we tried to keep them apart, as much as possible, any way one day a massive row broke out, the shouting could be heard 2 floors below, i got up there to see Dennis (who was of Jamaican descent) being held back from Geoff, who was, shall we say was more than a little over weight, it turns out Geoff called Dennis a black bastard, and it was heard by someone other than us that worked for the company, so i tried to get to the bottom of it and get all the details, as i knew it would be going further.
I asked everyone who was in earshot, it turns Dennis called Geoff a fat c**t, the up shot being, that at the HR meeting i had to attend, they decided that being called a fat C**t was no provocation for using racist language, and Geoff was sacked ! to this day i'm not sure that was the right outcome, in fact right after the incident, Geoff was much more angry than Dennis.

The special victim status awarded to one ‘oppressed group’ is open to abuse. There was that horrible Everton defender a few seasons ago who pushed Firmino into the crowd in a very nasty and cowardly manner. When Firmino got up and ran at him he told the ref that Firmino had used a racist term in his fury.
All accounts suggested that was a lie as far as I can remember. A classic use of the race card to deflect attention from his own spiteful and cheating character.

[justme]

Myself if I don't like someone its because of how I perceive them to be.. Take Lewis Hamilton I find him to be an ultra hypocrite
I don't like Raheem Sterling either. My dislike is not because of their skin colour. But i know some out there will then go on a tirade and say its because of that reasoning.
If someone is 100% racist there is no place in society for them. But its got to the point where people are eating themselves up and everyone with them,out of fear of offending. when theres non there.

[Steveo]

The special victim status awarded to one ‘oppressed group’ is open to abuse. There was that horrible Everton defender a few seasons ago who pushed Firmino into the crowd in a very nasty and cowardly manner. When Firmino got up and ran at him he told the ref that Firmino had used a racist term in his fury.
All accounts suggested that was a lie as far as I can remember. A classic use of the race card to deflect attention from his own spiteful and cheating character.

Virgil's debut FA cup January 2018.. It was Holgate - Happened right below me and my lad who was 8 at the time.

Bobby & those sat at the bottom of the main stand were very lucky not to be seriously hurt.

He realised the anger of the crowd and the gravity of what he had done BUT in an instant put the ref under pressure not to send him off by intimating that Bobby had used racist language... It was a bare faced lie AND one which could have landed Bobby in the shit. I was waiting for months to see some action for the swine but there was nothing at all.. Here we are in 2020... Not even a yellow card...???



https://youtu.be/eqlpSYDe7p0



https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/feb/21/roberto-firmino-cleared-racism-allegations

[RedNoodle]

Myself if I don't like someone its because of how I perceive them to be.. Take Lewis Hamilton I find him to be an ultra hypocrite
I don't like Raheem Sterling either. My dislike is not because of their skin colour. But i know some out there will then go on a tirade and say its because of that reasoning.
If someone is 100% racist there is no place in society for them. But its got to the point where people are eating themselves up and everyone with them,out of fear of offending. when theres non there.

This.

Unfortunately that former individual is almost certainly going to win SPOTY, so expect to hear a lot more of his hypocrisy in the coming weeks.

[dicko1969]

No he shouldn't be banned !

[dicko1969]

Suarez said "negro" (pronounced "neh-gro") on one occasion, if his version of events is accurate.

"Negrito" is a, for want of a better word, "softer" word again. One is a physical characteristic descriptive (which in South American culture seems to be "fine") whilst the other is a touch more endearing despite having the same basic meaning.

A comparison I could make in terms of how it might be viewed through an English-speaking lens would be a couple where ("Negrito" comparison) a fella who has been with his wife for 30 years with a pre-established, banterish relationship might affectionately grab the Missus' love handles and say "my chunky Muffin" which, in their relationship context, is a term of endearment (even if it might go down a stinker with other people and even though he is basically calling her fat) whereas "Negro" would simply be the word "fat" - I have friends who would call THEMSELVES fat and I would say "fat" as a descriptive in certain contexts, but we all know that referring to someone as "fat" is, at best, open to interpretation and at worst (and often used this way at school age or amongst arseholes) packs a malicious punch.

So to use this comparison (again, I know it isn't the best) imagine referring to a woman you were in a competitive environment with (playing Chess, both trying to grab the last of an item in the Supermarket) and busting out the "fat" word - it's only going to be taken one way no matter what your intent, whatever your thoughts on that are, versus the friendly pseudo-ridicule of your curvy Missus who is very comfortable with having an extra slice of Pizza rather than hitting the Gym and pokes fun at herself for it. You might think (for example) that it's better to let people know they are far as tough love so they exercise more/eat better/live longer and be genuinely using the word from a place of good wishes as you hate seeing your mate out of breath, but that isn't going to matter to most folk, etc etc.

Given that Suarez himself said he used "negro" (excerpts from his book, referenced in the Guardian) it would suggest that "Negrito" came from somewhere else - perhaps even our PR team - though I truthfully have no desire to go back and analyse everything as it's a period our Club and fanbase could likely do with forgetting - I remember wincing when I saw that "Klanfield" newspaper article and not wanting to wear a Liverpool top for a few months in case it was taken to be a right-wing emblem for a bit by some of Northern Ireland's resident nutjobs that I wouldn't want to be associated with.

Negrito or Negrita is 100% fine / accepted in Latin America

[miller0863]

My point being that is the word Suarez was hung out to dry with and why he was banned. So when another player uses it, shouldn’t he be treated the same.
It’s even worse really, when the warning to others has been sent out via a lengthy ban.

[CCTV]

Fair points. I think sexism is taken more seriously now than was 8 years ago or so when this happened. With the female ‘linesmen’ promotion of women’s football by the FA BBC etc. Society and therefore authorities deem racism worse and more of a no go. In same way Jimmy Carr or Frankie Boyle mock women, people with disabilities including downs, religion, paedo priests etc but they stay clear of mocking skin colour. Although all these along with age, sexual orientation etc are protected under the same legislation.

As for France not sure what their laws say the Equality Act 2010 is UK not EU legislation.

Think it depends who you ask, for some Trump/Bojo dont get slagged enough.

For the critical theorist slant I'd say blacks aren't alone, Jews, Muslims and Trans are probably rarely/never mocked on BBC etc I'd guess.

The only other category I can think of would be slagging off deaths, especially victims of terrorism Billy Connolly got some grief over a joke about that Bigley fellow who was decapitated iirc or over some troops being killed.

[dicko1969]

My point being that is the word Suarez was hung out to dry with and why he was banned. So when another player uses it, shouldn’t he be treated the same.
It’s even worse really, when the warning to others has been sent out via a lengthy ban.
2 totally different
1. With meaning of hatred and to incite a racial reaction during a football match. (Suarez)

2. The other was a message to a friend or family member ;
endearing term meaning sweetheart especially in writing. (Negrito or Negrita)

In the Suarez and Evra incident both were at fault imo.
It's just Evra was more cunning than the non subtle Suarez.

[RedNoodle]

The problem is that it it all comes down to interpretation. The only person who will know for sure the intent behind uttering such a word is the person who said it. With that being the case, it is in many instances going to be impossible to know for sure if it was meant to cause offence or not.

As a result you really only have two rational/fair choices. You either make a rule that everyone has to follow to the letter i.e. certain words, phrases, or statements are totally off limits, and if you utter them you get x punishment with no appeal, or you allow people to say whatever they want.

The latter would just cause chaos, which means that the only fair option is to have a 'one rule, one punishment, no argument' approach.

Some are trying to argue that Cavani wouldn't know what can and cannot be said over here, but I'm sorry I call BS on that. His country's arguably most famous footballer was punished for something similar, something that was and would have been big news in the sporting world and would have been well known about by anyone with any interest in football, never mind those who hail from that country AND played with that particular footballer for their national team.

One thing that really pees me off in life is this 'one rule for thee, and another one for me' approach that is prevalent in many areas of life.

[dicko1969]

Cavani was talking to who ?
Why should he change his language?

Suarez was talking to Evra...

2 totally different contexts

The Cavani situation this is a joke

[miller0863]

I know all about context.

If a word used is deemed offensive enough to ban someone for 8 games, it shouldn’t be used at all.

Unless we’re saying it was wrong to ban Suarez for using the word, at least to ban him for 8 games.

Can’t change my mind on this, I know all the arguments, it’s my opinion.

[Kev0909]

I know all about context.

If a word used is deemed offensive enough to ban someone for 8 games, it shouldn’t be used at all.

Unless we’re saying it was wrong to ban Suarez for using the word, at least to ban him for 8 games.

Can’t change my mind on this, I know all the arguments, it’s my opinion.

well your opinion is wrong

Get out

thanks

:lol::lol::lol:

(doubt you'd have the same opinion if cavani played for us)

[dicko1969]

Absolutely

Suarez was guilty
But Evra was cute victim.

Cavani story is a nothing story.

Total joke, a warped fucked up world totally insane making something from absolutely nothing from an innocent message to a friend/family (uncle?)

I am totally amazed on how much people are influenced from fake false news.


https://twitter.com/smashbro_mookie/status/1323653826134581248?s=24

This bunch of cave people sum up the cream of the world 🤣🤣

[philfatkid]

Was Dennis reprimanded at all?

No pal, no action was taken against Dennis, even though 5 or 6 people confirmed what was said beforehand, all to no avail !
my son just read my post, and asked what happened to Dennis and Geoff, well Dennis went on to become an electrical tutor, and in Geoff's case it turned his life around, he ended up owning 3 pubs and lost loads of weight, and went on to take part in various marathons, so every cloud, and so on....

[Nineteenx]

The FA usually take action against players over social media posts, Cavani should get the same ban

[vin]

No pal, no action was taken against Dennis, even though 5 or 6 people confirmed what was said beforehand, all to no avail !
my son just read my post, and asked what happened to Dennis and Geoff, well Dennis went on to become an electrical tutor, and in Geoff's case it turned his life around, he ended up owning 3 pubs and lost loads of weight, and went on to take part in various marathons, so every cloud, and so on....

Both would get sacked now.

I agree with the panel though, being called a fat whatever isn't grounds for being racist. If he had called him an ugly bastard or something - I doubt he would have been tin tacked

[Nineteenx]

When does his 9 match ban start?

[miller0863]

Manchester United striker Edinson Cavani has been charged with misconduct by the Football Association for a now-deleted social media post containing a Spanish phrase that is offensive in some contexts.

The Uruguayan striker sent the message after scoring the injury-time winner in United's 3-2 win at Southampton.

He later deleted the post and apologised when it was pointed out the meaning that could be attached to it.

The striker has until Monday 4 January 2021 to provide a response to the charge.

As of this season, Football Association rules state that any player found guilty of an offence of discrimination will face a minimum three-match suspension.

United say they will consider the charge but repeated their message that they are committed to the fight against racism and stressed their was no malicious intent behind the forward’s post.

[dicko1969]

"The striker could be banned for three matches if he is found guilty.
An FA statement, with reference to new guidelines agreed in the summer, said the post was alleged to be "insulting and/or abusive and/or improper and/or brought the game into disrepute".
It is also alleged "that the comment constitutes an aggravated breach" which "included reference, whether express or implied, to colour and/or race and/or ethnic origin".

It was intended as an affectionate greeting to a friend, thanking him for his congratulations after the game," said the former Napoli and Paris St-Germain striker.
"The last thing I wanted to do was cause offence to anyone.
"I am completely opposed to racism and deleted the message as soon as it was explained that it can be interpreted differently."

This is totally bullshit.

No games banned
Move on.

Note
Tell all south Americans that "negriro and negrita" are banned in uk.

[justincredible]

"The striker could be banned for three matches if he is found guilty.
An FA statement, with reference to new guidelines agreed in the summer, said the post was alleged to be "insulting and/or abusive and/or improper and/or brought the game into disrepute".
It is also alleged "that the comment constitutes an aggravated breach" which "included reference, whether express or implied, to colour and/or race and/or ethnic origin".

It was intended as an affectionate greeting to a friend, thanking him for his congratulations after the game," said the former Napoli and Paris St-Germain striker.
"The last thing I wanted to do was cause offence to anyone.
"I am completely opposed to racism and deleted the message as soon as it was explained that it can be interpreted differently."

This is totally bullshit.

No games banned
Move on.

Note
Tell all south Americans that "negriro and negrita banned in uk.

But it's damn fine rum. Sigh.....

https://www.gourmetencasa-tcm.com/en/1506-bold-1l.html?SubmitCurrency=1&id_currency=1&id_country=26&gclid=CjwKCAiAoOz-BRBdEiwAyuvA666-VTpE100hna7a9IiFFvZkplH8sdphdWUWNakufYPDV_VRFc0QkR oCet0QAvD_BwE

[Kev0909]

Worlds gone mad

[dicko1969]

14€
22€
68€

[CCTV]

But it's damn fine rum. Sigh.....

https://www.gourmetencasa-tcm.com/en/1506-bold-1l.html?SubmitCurrency=1&id_currency=1&id_country=26&gclid=CjwKCAiAoOz-BRBdEiwAyuvA666-VTpE100hna7a9IiFFvZkplH8sdphdWUWNakufYPDV_VRFc0QkR oCet0QAvD_BwE

He called him bud or jimbean
#1moregamebanforattackingalcoholics

[Taksin]

It's not an insult. Negro or negra means a black, exactly the same as black used to be the politically correct term over here for a black person. Their language doesn't change as quickly as ours in response to political correctness, which is interesting as it makes you realise that behaviour is more important than language because their behaviour has changed, albeit not quickly enough in many hispanic regions.

Negrita or negrito is just a more affectionate way of referring to someone who is 'negro' - exactly the same word as the second least politically correct word for a black person in the English language.

However, you can still use the term insultingly. The question of whether you say 'porque, negrito?'or 'porque eres negrito' is quite significant, but you have to really know the micro cultures to be able to know how insulting it is to say the seemingly more innocent sentence - the former of the two - because referring to someone's colour in a dispute is not normal unless its normal.

I know a 12 year old who got into massive trouble being overheard referring to his best mate as 'ni***r'. As usually happens, the person reporting him had another gripe with him and his defence was 'but that's what we always call each other'.

So my opinion is all the virtue signalling, from Sir Alex to Evra to the FA to the media, was emanating from a lot of crocodile tears. The forced apology from Suarez was sad as I imagine he is a lot more comfortable with and loving towards black friends than many of his white persecutors. The same with Silva towards Mendy. Sure, you may wish to pull these people up on certain issues but you won't convince me that you are less racist than the supposed perpetrators because you have your language sorted out nice and tidily.

[RedNoodle]

As with most, if not all others areas of life, actions speak louder than words, or at least they should.

[justme]

Hes got a 3 game ban

[LEGS]

Hes got a 3 game ban

Which means he is back for our game who’d have thought it

[justme]

I tried to look for that conspiracy :D but hes back for the game before ours :) but Cantona came back for our fixture and same happened with Rio. after they both had long lay offs. now that's iffy. But thats bygone times

[LEGS]

I tried to look for that conspiracy :D but hes back for the game before ours :) but Cantona came back for our fixture and same happened with Rio. after they both had long lay offs. now that's iffy. But thats bygone times

Might need to check again Villa City and Watford then us.

Although there is talk they want to fit the Burnley game in before they play us.

[skyebo]

I remember that game when Cantana came back. Robbie Fowler shoulder barged Neville out of the way, before lobbing Schmeichel for one of his goals.

[dicko1969]

Hes got a 3 game ban
That is totally ridiculous.
Should have been no games.
And perhaps a token fonevto go to a charity
Like BLM

[Kev0909]

That is totally ridiculous.
Should have been no games.
And perhaps a token fonevto go to a charity
Like BLM

Wouldn't happen if he was english

#Foreignlivesmatters

[LEGS]

What I dont get is Bernardo Silva got a one game ban but Cavani gets three.

Its not like they are making it up as they go along.

The authorities need to get some rules in place for all teams/divisions.

The easy soultion is dont post on social media but players not agree to that.

[Kev0909]

What I dont get is Bernardo Silva got a one game ban but Cavani gets three.

Its not like they are making it up as they go along.

The authorities need to get some rules in place for all teams/divisions.

The easy soultion is dont post on social media but players not agree to that.

I dunno

all my black mates was really offended by cavani sharing a post that wasn't aimed at them, or in the context whatsoever bad.

the sames ones that call each other the N word, and don't mind others calling it them, wassup my N

you know

I better stop there before I get banned for saying N or black

the FA might be watching

Imagine getting offended by anything on social media anyway.

(I can't stand the word personally but apparently it's cool to call it each other, or say it in songs over and over)

[justme]

Footballers represent their profession.. They have to be seen to be behaving correctly online or offline. I think sometimes they get castigated worse than the general public. They are only human. I dont think anyone should be banned for non intentional racist connotation. But the FA have strict guidelines.. Look at the chairman of the FA resigning because he made an error in a usage of a word.
They neglected how he was promoting and being positive towards the black community in 99% of his comments that day..
To me it all about intent, but thats just my personal opinion

[Kev0909]

Here's a question for you, why ain't they banned bad words in songs?

Or the gang culture shit??

Oh but if you re-share something on insta completely out of context, ha get fined and 3 game ban and lessons on how naughty you are!!

Smack bum

and I agree justme

[stevie harkness]

The F****tale of New York was censored this year I believe, why now I wonder?

[Kev0909]

The F****tale of New York was censored this year I believe, why now I wonder?

Exactly so what about all the songs that literally evolve around the N word?

Don't christian lives matter?

[skyebo]

The F****tale of New York was censored this year I believe, why now I wonder?

You're cheap and you're haggard doesn't quite have the same ring to it as the original line.

[Kev0909]

I'm sure cavani got fined far more than others that have done worse too, when it was harmless

FA racist cunts

they're a bunch of hypocrites

look how different players are treated

Enough said

[stevie harkness]

Exactly so what about all the songs that literally evolve around the N word?

Don't christian lives matter?

The only song to feature the N word that I'm really familiar with is Oliver's Army by Elvis Costello and that's been censored by some.

[Kev0909]

The only song to feature the N word that I'm really familiar with is Oliver's Army by Elvis Costello and that's been censored by some.

you're obviously not gansta enough

[Steveo]

Dylan....


https://youtu.be/bpZvg_FjL3Q

[stevie harkness]

Oh yeah that's a cracking song too Steveo, not heard it on the radio for ages.

[Steveo]

Dylan showing how context is absolutely key.. Great track from one of the greatest artists of all time...!!

[Kev0909]

Trash music like Kendrick lamar.... and


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ABk7TmjnVk&ab_channel=KanyeWestVEVO

This...... guy too

And all the lesser known american "rappers" or hip-hoppers, plenty of them.

Plenty of shite songs

The actual brit awards is toned down a little.. even worse without that...

about 100 times n word after every sentence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc-ccZXsIm4&ab_channel=KanyeWest-Topic

These are what a lot of kids are into too...... don't ask me why the worlds gone mad these little chavy english boiis

Pretty sure 98% of the people that are in gangs, knife culture and all that shit in parts of london listen to this trash

as you can tell I despise this music, but know of some of it sadly, from just some old friends, going to shitty nightclubs

Much prefer me rock n roll and hardcore shit

I mean when firmino misses another chance, I normally put some Rammstein on.

Limp Bizkit - Break Stuff after the last 2 draws

[fagin]

What in fuck is wrong with you fuckers ? are you men or mice ? a fucking negro is a fucking negro. a niggar is a niggar !!!You all wasting a whole topic cause you aint got the balls to say what you mean. just swings and round abouts limp dicks !!!!

[Steveo]

Thet’s right you neilad thosa colours to tha mest claerly..

[justme]

I doubt any of us have ever used the N word. the vile N word.. because its a deplorable word.. And quite rightly should be slammed.

[skyebo]

Thet’s right you neilad thosa colours to tha mest claerly..

Why is he going round the houses ?

[fagin]

I doubt any of us have ever used the N word. the vile N word.. because its a deplorable word.. And quite rightly should be slammed.

Oh gawd not the deplorable N word its nigger as is still used on a daily basis in N. America

[justme]

Oh gawd not the deplorable N word its nigger as is still used on a daily basis in N. America
I find it bad. because its racist slur. I chose not to use it.

[Steveo]

I find it bad. because its racist slur. I chose not to use it.

It isn’t racist in and of itself. It is just synonymous with AND has just been used by racists - especially in the US.

The word is used freely by the African American community in the US and the Afro Caribbean community in the UK.

[justme]

It isn’t racist in and of itself. It is just synonymous with AND has just been used by racists - especially in the US.

The word is used freely by the African American community in the US and the Afro Caribbean community in the UK.

try using it in the UK in public and see what happens.. the person is likely to be arrested

[Kev0909]

try using it in the UK in public and see what happens.. the person is likely to be arrested

not if your black

you can put it into some lyrics then after every word and it'll be a popular song

fucking joke, makes using the word "seem normal" to kids shit culture that needs to go

and they care about "faggot" in fairytale of new york?

l
M
A
O

[Steveo]

try using it in the UK in public and see what happens.. the person is likely to be arrested

But that is a different point entirely.

We are talking about a word. IF a word is racist the. NOBODY should use it. And punishment should be the same for all who do.

[skyebo]

try using it in the UK in public and see what happens.. the person is likely to be arrested

Or filled in.

[fagin]

I find it bad. because its racist slur. I chose not to use it.

I understand where you're coming from but i am living along side them and they find it normal conversation.

I think people who are not living in this space take offense at every day vocabulary in other countries which

really have fuck all to do with them or their opinions

[justme]

Or filled in.
Indeed

[Kev0909]

Or filled in.

On a side note made me laugh when I saw people changing profile pictures to a black photo and going #BLM and all that

basically because it was a trendy thing to do at the time

yet damn right I know 99% of these people wouldn't do shit if anything happened infront of them

[justme]

But that is a different point entirely.

We are talking about a word. IF a word is racist the. NOBODY should use it. And punishment should be the same for all who do.
If life was that simple, its not. I do know the word is use in the black community and its seems less of an issue. But i wouldnt want to use it as a white person to a black person. Because there are different connotations in that sense. It appears to be daft i know. But its different.

[Steveo]

Who said they wanted to use it..?

[justme]

Who said they wanted to use it..?

Is that aimed at me? and what you mean they?

[fagin]

If life was that simple, its not. I do know the word is use in the black community and its seems less of an issue. But i wouldnt want to use it as a white person to a black person. Because there are different connotations in that sense. It appears to be daft i know. But its different.

Great ! But how about your opinion about it coming the other way from a black person to a white person

Not necessarily the infamous nigger word

[Steveo]

Is that aimed at me? and what you mean they?

Aimed at everyone - I wasn’t aware anyone was keen to use the word. Can’t imagine why anyone would be.

Thought Fagin was saying ( in a rather crude way ) that people are pussyfooting around in trying NOT to use it. That’s all

[Kev0909]

#freecavani

[fagin]

Aimed at everyone - I wasn’t aware anyone was keen to use the word. Can’t imagine why anyone would be.

Thought Fagin was saying ( in a rather crude way ) that people are pussyfooting around in trying NOT to use it. That’s all

Thank fuck someone hears me thank you Stevo

[justme]

Great ! But how about your opinion about it coming the other way from a black person to a white person

Lets understand one thing.. Racism is not acceptable who ever does it. But i'm white and ive never felt inferior because of my skin colour. thats what black people have had suffered for 100s and 100s of years. I don't know how a black person feels when they are in a group of white people and they suffer mild racism. little comments here and there , not outward racism with hatred involved, Just comments that make you feel like an outsider ..I know has a human being i want to be accepted as a person first

I wouldnt feel emotionally destroyed inside if had a racist remark to me.. That's how black people feel.

[Steveo]

“ I wouldnt feel emotionally destroyed inside if had a racist remark to me.. That's how black people feel.”

Oh dear

[ianlfc]

The only song to feature the N word that I'm really familiar with is Oliver's Army by Elvis Costello and that's been censored by some.

You still listening to the wireless, Grandad ? 😂😂

[justme]

“ I wouldnt feel emotionally destroyed inside if had a racist remark to me.. That's how black people feel.”

Oh dear
Oh dear WHAT?? i take it you were never bullied at school?? you wanna ask grown up adults how it affected their lives from there on in Once you get abused over time over something like your skin colour it has a detrimental effects on you as an individual.

[Steveo]

This is precisely the problem. What do you actually know about these ‘black people”

Do you realise that most “black people” live in Africa..? Have you ever been to Africa?

Seriously justme - I am sure your intentions are good but you are revealing a very insular existence. Not all black people or white people have the same history.

Thinking you are more able to handle a racist remark is in itself derogatory

[justme]

This is precisely the problem. What do you actually know about these ‘black people”

Do you realise that most “black people” live in Africa..? Have you ever been to Africa?

Seriously justme - I am sure your intentions are good but you are revealing a very insular existence. Not all black people or white people have the same history.

Thinking you are more able to handle a racist remark is in itself derogatory


You dont understand diddly squat.. how verbal abuse effects people emotionally. I said i wouldnt feel bad if i was abused as much as a black person.. Because i have not had to put up with constant little remarks over my life time.. You wanna ask black footballers how much abuse they had to put up with., especially from crowds. Its obviously no where near as bad has is use to be..But footballers of bygone days have had to put with aload of shit. even in their own dressing rooms if they were the only black player..

[Kev0909]

/popcorn

[Steveo]

You dont understand diddly squat.. how verbal abuse effects people emotionally. I said i wouldnt feel bad if i was abused as much as a black person.. Because i have not had to put up with constant little remarks over my life time.. You wanna ask black footballers how much abuse they had to put up with., especially from crowds. Its obviously no where near as bad has is use to be..But footballers of bygone days have had to put with aload of shit. even in their own dressing rooms if they were the only black player..

What has any of this got to do with your ability to cope with racism? And how you are so much better at it.?

Climb down and see how you are simply perpetuating stereotypes.

Do you think that by highlighting the racism suffered by black players you are making any more sense?

Black people have suffered far more than abuse from the terraces.. Far more.. so have many other people too. We are talking about a word - not what happens in sport.

Please try to keep on track.

[fagin]

Lets understand one thing.. Racism is not acceptable who ever does it. But i'm white and ive never felt inferior because of my skin colour. thats what black people have had suffered for 100s and 100s of years. I don't know how a black person feels when they are in a group of white people and they suffer mild racism. little comments here and there , not outward racism with hatred involved, Just comments that make you feel like an outsider ..I know has a human being i want to be accepted as a person first

I wouldnt feel emotionally destroyed inside if had a racist remark to me.. That's how black people feel.


You know its fucking sickening reading or listening to people who all of a sudden unlike their usual regime take

the attitude of the day to re-defiine their opinions

[justme]

What has any of this got to do with your ability to cope with racism? And how you are so much better at it.?

Climb down and see how you are simply perpetuating stereotypes.

of course you dont take all the comments ive posted into consideration.. You are now getting mixed up and act like a tosser

[justme]

You know its fucking sickening reading or listening to people who all of a sudden unlike their usual regime take

the attitude of the day to re-defiine their opinions
You think its because of the current BLM thing. You think i'm joining in? I don't follower any group of any kind. I'm giving my point of view.

[Taksin]

I wouldnt feel emotionally destroyed inside if had a racist remark to me.. That's how black people feel.


Black people feel different things because they are individuals. We now have many black people proclaiming the superiority of melanin for may different things, including intelligence. We also have a narrative of white people being uniquely evil, which is a widespread racist idea.

It is the temptation of identity politics to believe certain things about a group based on their identity including that they are victims of oppression or the perpetrators of oppression. This overlooks any individual characteristics a person may have and limits them to their identity group - in the case of racial identity it judges people by their skin colour. This used to be considered a racist thing to do to someone but it has been rehabilitated by, in my opinion, evil protagonists such as Black Lives Matter.

That's why bending the knee is so divisive. What are we bending the knee to? It is a religious gesture which was initiated as a refusal to respect the American flag. What are we refusing now in this country? Police brutality, the Nation State, the patriarchy? What has become so solemn at this point in time that we can't enjoy a game of football without this terrible sadness at the start if it?

There was always racism at the games, much less at Anfield than at other grounds, but it is a fairly minor feature of general abusiveness from fans these days. We used to chant 'You Fat Bastard' directly at Wayne Rooney, in unison, extremely loudly. And he had to deal with it, no matter how he felt.

[Steveo]

of course you dont take all the comments ive posted into consideration.. You are now getting mixed up and act like a tosser

How on Earth am I acting like a tosser..?

Seriously - get a grip. Insults now because you can’t hold the discussion

[Taksin]

And I should point out that I am completely against racist abuse at football games, but I think we should be able to deal with it fairly discretely at this stage. What Ferguson did to Suarez (with the FA) was a good example of how not to deal with it.

[justme]

Black people feel different things because they are individuals. We now have many black people proclaiming the superiority of melanin for may different things, including intelligence. We also have a narrative of white people being uniquely evil, which is a widespread racist idea.

It is the temptation of identity politics to believe certain things about a group based on their identity including that they are victims of oppression or the perpetrators of oppression. This overlooks any individual characteristics a person may have and limits them to their identity group - in the case of racial identity it judges people by their skin colour. This used to be considered a racist thing to do to someone but it has been rehabilitated by, in my opinion, evil protagonists such as Black Lives Matter.

That's why bending the knee is so divisive. What are we bending the knee to? It is a religious gesture which was initiated as a refusal to respect the American flag. What are we refusing now in this country? Police brutality, the Nation State, the patriarchy? What has become so solemn at this point in time that we can't enjoy a game of football without this terrible sadness at the start if it?

There was always racism at the games, much less at Anfield than at other grounds, but it is a fairly minor feature of general abusiveness from fans these days. We used to chant 'You Fat Bastard' directly at Wayne Rooney, in unison, extremely loudly. And he had to deal with it, no matter how he felt.

This part of the discussion started after Fagin came out with the N word. and someone else asked why its ok for black people to use it and not white..Im trying to say its because theres different connotations to who uses it. Right or wrong.
I wouldnt feel upset if i was racially attacked on the same levels a black person would (thats my opinion).. I do think the taking of the knee is going on to long now. But football is trying to keep the subject in the spotlight .

Being called fat is not the same as mentioning the colour of some ones skin..

[Kev0909]

And I should point out that I am completely against racist abuse at football games, but I think we should be able to deal with it fairly discretely at this stage. What Ferguson did to Suarez (with the FA) was a good example of how not to deal with it.

What do you think about cavani 3 game ban/Fine ? assuming you know the full story which I think you do

Even if he is a manc I think it's a load of shite

if anything the only person it's hurt would perhaps be himself, and his own mental health may sound drastic but it can happen! - thinking everyone thinks he's a racist when he obviously isn't

Disgusting imo

FA need to start having some equality considering how they're "anti-racist" and LGBTQ friendly and all that the medias just as bad

if you're english you're all good

100k ban v 40k ban of suarez, which was so much worse too, yeah sure the games, but fuck me he still got paid for having 8 games off, and biting people for that matter never gave a proper shit about LFC anyway, not like we did for him.

[stevie harkness]

You still listening to the wireless, Grandad ? 😂😂

Hehe, yeah, not like the kids today with their Sony Walkman cassette players and their bubblegum.

[fagin]

You think its because of the current BLM thing. You think i'm joining in? I don't follower any group of any kind. I'm giving my point of view.

Buddy i coudn't give a fiddlers fuck about the Black Lives Matter bullshit they are personally a waste of skin.

Unfortunately maybe you are into that shit which is is obviously your decisive route but its not mine

[Balinkay]

Great ! But how about your opinion about it coming the other way from a black person to a white person

Not necessarily the infamous nigger word

How in the fuck is Joe R.ogan blurred out on the site, but this isn't? Vin?

[Kev0909]

How in the fuck is Joe R.ogan blurred out on the side, but this isn't? Vin?

*****

what the fuck?:glee:

[justme]

Buddy i coudn't give a fiddlers fuck about the Black Lives Matter bullshit they are personally a waste of skin.

Unfortunately maybe you are into that shit which is is obviously your decisive route but its not mine

Just told you in the message your replying too. i wasnt. use ya brain for once

[fagin]

Just told you in the message your replying too. i wasnt. use ya brain for once

Way to suck you're balls into you're cunt .eh !

[skyebo]

Way to suck you're balls into you're cunt .eh !

Lovely comment.

[Kev0909]

stop being transphobic!

GOSH

[miller0863]

Think justme has made a valid point albeit in a slightly cack handed way. He is not saying he is better than a black person at handling racism aimed at him, he is trying to emphasise how black people have serious racism virtually from birth, if they are born in Europe or the US.
If justme was racially abused as a child and right on through his life, he would struggle with it just the same as anyone of any race creed or colour in the same position. “People of colour” have been made to feel inferior by whites for hundreds if not thousands of years.
This is the main reason why white peoples being racially abused don’t take it seriously or get offended because of the history of racism throughout the centuries.

This is a very difficult subject and I think we should all take a deep breath before looking for opportunities to look less racist than the next person because he may not have expressed himself in what is considered the totally correct PC way.

Chill everyone, I doubt we have any “genuine” racists on here, just different ways of getting their point across.

[fagin]

Lovely comment.

Did you grow up on on a farm or something !!!!

[justme]

Think justme has made a valid point albeit in a slightly cack handed way. He is not saying he is better than a black person at handling racism aimed at him, he is trying to emphasise how black people have serious racism virtually from birth, if they are born in Europe or the US.
If justme was racially abused as a child and right on through his life, he would struggle with it just the same as anyone of any race creed or colour in the same position. “People of colour” have been made to feel inferior by whites for hundreds if not thousands of years.
This is the main reason why white peoples being racially abused don’t take it seriously or get offended because of the history of racism throughout the centuries.

This is a very difficult subject and I think we should all take a deep breath before looking for opportunities to look less racist than the next person because he may not have expressed himself in what is considered the totally correct PC way.

Chill everyone, I doubt we have any “genuine” racists on here, just different ways of getting their point across.

Thanks.if i came across in that matter. your right i didnt mean too. wasnt my intention. I brought that up because the question was why its fine for black people to use the N word and not white.

I think its because of how its perceived from both angles. I was asked would it be ok for me to be called the N word. I wouldnt have the same levels of emotional stress. I wasnt trying to appear arrogant..

[Steveo]

Did you grow up on on a farm or something !!!!

It wasn’t the nicest of comments though was it..? Lowers the tone.

This should be an open debate

[justme]

Anyway moving on :)

[miller0863]

Yeah that’s what I understood from your post mate.

[Steveo]

Thanks.if i came across in that matter. your right i didnt mean too. wasnt my intention. I brought that up because the question was why its fine for black people to use the N word and not white.

I think its because of how its perceived from both angles. I was asked would it be ok for me to be called the N word. I wouldnt have the same levels of emotional stress. I wasnt trying to appear arrogant..

Highlights how easy it is to be misunderstood on this topic. And also highlights the danger of the times and assault on language meanings and interpretations.

[miller0863]

Absolutely Steveo

[Taksin]

What do you think about cavani 3 game ban/Fine ? assuming you know the full story which I think you do

Even if he is a manc I think it's a load of shite



Yes I agree. I think people should be allowed to make mistakes. He said he deleted it as soon as it was pointed out to him that the term was viewed as unacceptable in this country. That should be the end of it.

You also had the Australian rugby player who was banned for retweeting a meme which included a line about homosexuality being sinful. He was an evangelical christian if memory serves me so it was his actual religious belief. But now we have these authorities telling us what we can and can’t believe. As if a member of the FA is in a position to decide whether homosexuality is sinful or what that even actually means. It ends up being another form of totalitarianism.

We should try and keep politics out of sports and that’s another reason why BLM is divisive. You are no longer allowed to disagree with them, as I do.

[fagin]

i agree with team of fxxxxts

[eggy81]

I think everyone is prejudiced in some way to what they perceive as different and what they don’t know. It’s a condition as old as time and will gradually fade with familiarity and education. I don’t hate anyone outwardly and I don’t think of anyone as inferior but I also can admit that I don’t interact as well with people from different cultures as I do with my own. I simply don’t know how to. Anyone IMO who says that these little barriers in communication don’t exist for someone not familiar with them IMO is lying. You even see it tribalism and hate between different groups of people in the same geographical area. Mancs and scousers for example. Just a fact of life.

[miller0863]

Well put eggy

[southernboy]

I regularly work on a crew with 2 black guys. They call each other by the N word all the time, but I would never dream of doing it. We all get on and have a good laugh, but there's a line you don't cross. The racist abuse they receive in one shift, I think would shock most people. They seem to laugh it off; it's me that gets the hump on their behalf.

[RedNoodle]

One problem is that currently a fair chunk of people are looking to find offence where none is meant/intended. For example I'm currently engaged in an online debate about a particular term used to describe people from a specific part of Asia, one where it can be/is impossible for non natives to be able to identify the specific country from which the person being described comes from.

[fagin]

I'd like to offer an apology to ( Justme) for my uncalled for post to you at #146.There was no need for it.

[CCTV]

Thank fuck someone hears me thank you Stevo

Just don't say Jehova or ***** :D

[CCTV]

R,o.g,a.n

Why is it not permitted :D

[CCTV]

That is totally ridiculous.
Should have been no games.
And perhaps a token fonevto go to a charity
Like BLM

Agree with the first 2 sentences.
BLM the charity lol

Should have paid his friend/acquaintance compensation for greeting him, in his mother tongue.

Maybe the fa should be charged

[stevie harkness]

Uruguay's players' union has called on the Football Association to overturn Edinson Cavani's three-match ban.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55534759

Luis Suarez and Diego Godin have both shared a statement by their national players' union that calls the punishment a "discriminatory" act.

[Kev0909]

Uruguay's players' union has called on the Football Association to overturn Edinson Cavani's three-match ban.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55534759

Luis Suarez and Diego Godin have both shared a statement by their national players' union that calls the punishment a "discriminatory" act.

Good on em

corrupt racist FA

[Nineteenx]

Given the incredible proportions of the Suarez witch hunt orchestrated by the filthy and their many minions in the UK media and FA for him using the exact same terminology it is absolutely astonishing Cavani hasn't faced the same length of ban and the filthy themselves should have insisted on it

[miller0863]

Would like to hear Patrice Evra’s wise words on the subject.
He told an FA inquiry that the word was just too upsetting to repeat.

[redebreck]

Hypocrisy boils my pish.

[RedNoodle]

Hypocrisy boils my pish.

Mine too.

[miller0863]

There are a number of reds fans who at the time shot themselves and jumped on the “Suarez is a racist” bandwagon who are now saying Cavani shouldn’t be banned.

Well which is it?? Is it a racist term for someone from South America or not??

The whole point of this thread was, that if you all decided Suarez deserved his ban for using this apparently abhorrent racist term, then Cavani should face the same ban for using the same term.

[Kev0909]

There are a number of reds fans who at the time shot themselves and jumped on the “Suarez is a racist” bandwagon who are now saying Cavani shouldn’t be banned.

Well which is it?? Is it a racist term for someone from South America or not??

The whole point of this thread was, that if you all decided Suarez deserved his ban for using this apparently abhorrent racist term, then Cavani should face the same ban for using the same term.

As people already explained it was a completely different situation

and context

[miller0863]

Sorry Kev, bollocks

[Kev0909]

Sorry Kev, bollocks

Is it that hard to see the difference?

Stop being so wrapped up because it's a man utd player and suarez was a cunt

[Kev0909]

Imagine thinking something shared on insta in a friendly way is the same as a big arguement on the field and obviously said in a different way / angry after a debate

I don't think it was 100% the same word either?

Did it happen in a football game no- Suarez was obviously intending to be a cunt

Did it happen on insta, for like a hour before it got deleted when he just shared some geezer's story thinking nothing of it but positive shit yes

Suarez was banned for saying 'porque eres negro', which means 'because you are black' .
In no way are they the same situation, or even the same words.

there's a reason why most of the world apart from liverpool fans think it's bizzare and pretty much only liverpool fans defended suarez

[Kev0909]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eqk7rDdXIAU2HIL?format=jpg&name=900x900

[miller0863]

I am of the opinion that a racist term is one that should not be used from one race to another.

Look at the “N” word, black people use it between themselves all the time but there are absolutely no circumstances where a white guy should use it to a black guy, none.

Suarez was given a heavy ban because the term he used was so racist Evra could not bring himself to repeat it.

If that is the case... IF... then there should be no circumstances where Cavani should be using it either.
You cannot have it both ways.

To use your language..”is that it so hard to see the connection?”

I have my view which will not change and that is that neither should have been banned. However, in law, once you set a “precedent” that is the example by which all other similar incidents are judged.

As far as I understand, they used the same term, urgo, the same punishment applies.

[miller0863]

Not how Suarez saw it and not what was eventually accepted either

[miller0863]

Suarez said that he used the same word used by Cavani

[miller0863]

Anyway, feel free to hold your opinion Kev, I ain’t gonna try and change your mind.

Laters, off to bed me

[RedNoodle]

The trouble is that not everybody will agree as to what is or is not 'racist'.

After what happened to Suarez, every player that was signed by a club should have been told in no uncertain terms that certain words/descriptions should not be used, irrespective of how acceptable they may be within their own country or culture.

That's the only way you'll stop things like this happening.

[RedNoodle]

Anyway, feel free to hold your opinion Kev, I ain’t gonna try and change your mind.

Laters, off to bed me

Off to bed me ....... a what? One of those deaf, dumb, blind, fugly, limbless (and most importantly, p***ed) broads that won't touch me with a 100ft barge pole?

[Kev0909]

Anyway, feel free to hold your opinion Kev, I ain’t gonna try and change your mind.

Laters, off to bed me

and we could debate all night

I think understanding of the word and how it's used over there is more needed, against Evra (who obviously wasn't friendly with suarez) it's not used in that way at all, whereas this South american geezer who posted and tagged cavani in the first place obviously did it in a very friendly way and cavani just shared it.

There's slight differences like there is in England with some words.

We could argue all night but says a lot when pundits, and others have backed Cavani

And I think utd &Cavani have handled it well, he seems a nice bloke

I'm sick of all this shite the world isn't all against us

Maybe if suarez wasn't such a cunt, or it wasn't captured clearly, in a very angry way he wouldn't of got a long ban either, tbf I don't know why you care he's probably happy he didn't get fined as much, like he gives a fuck about us

The real Hypocrisy is you'd be fuming if cavani played for us, end of so would most of us, and rightly so.

Looking back at it, we handled it really fucking stupidly and that's the truth, I'd rather it not be all bought up again it's that bad, and trying to compare the 2 is batshit crazy frankly

Honestly if that's racist the FA/media have been racist for years, look closely....

[Kev0909]

2 totally different
1. With meaning of hatred and to incite a racial reaction during a football match. (Suarez)

2. The other was a message to a friend or family member ;
endearing term meaning sweetheart especially in writing. (Negrito or Negrita)

In the Suarez and Evra incident both were at fault imo.
It's just Evra was more cunning than the non subtle Suarez.

This is a simple way to put it too

Get off ya utd hating horses

[CCTV]

I am of the opinion that a racist term is one that should not be used from one race to another.

Look at the “N” word, black people use it between themselves all the time but there are absolutely no circumstances where a white guy should use it to a black guy, none.

Suarez was given a heavy ban because the term he used was so racist Evra could not bring himself to repeat it.

If that is the case... IF... then there should be no circumstances where Cavani should be using it either.
You cannot have it both ways.

To use your language..”is that it so hard to see the connection?”

I have my view which will not change and that is that neither should have been banned. However, in law, once you set a “precedent” that is the example by which all other similar incidents are judged.

As far as I understand, they used the same term, urgo, the same punishment applies.

Really ? If a black guy refers to a white guy as the n word it's only polite to refer to them in the same way. They're not calling a white person the n word because they thought he was black.

You can't say that because you are white - anti-racism.
Ffs this last year logic and science as mental processes have been dubbed racist as they are whiteness.
The Smithsonian declaring punctuality/timeliness as whiteness.
Only irrational anti-racists can get away with saying such racist shit and pat themselves on the back for being antiracist.

A young black intellectual prodigy in Texas can be called a coconut/uncletom/coon under this antiracism fervour for demonstrating whiteness and turning his back on blackness.

I shall get back to the blm thread and to Steveo in another thread somewhere soon about bojo/Cornyn, so this isn't directed at you but more the general air.

Funny how the travellers get ignored. On average lower academic qualifications, shorter life spans and lower income.
Must be because they are oppressed. Clearly the Irish and Jews are doing better as the english and Germans stopped hating them and let them succeed.

Am I alone in seeing these impressions and tangents as the height of stupidity.

[miller0863]

I think you have completely misunderstood my meaning. I mean totally.

I would rather not go any further with this debate as it is too easy to try and pick holes in what is written and change the context and call it racist.

So I’m done with it.

Thanks

[Kev0909]

I think you have completely misunderstood my meaning. I mean totally.

I would rather not go any further with this debate as it is too easy to try and pick holes in what is written and change the context and call it racist.

So I’m done with it.

Thanks

because it's a load of shittttte

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[stevie harkness]

The FA accept that Cavani was not intentionally racist. It seems that his quarantine on arrival in the country disrupted his media training.

I'd love to know what happens to his £100,000 fine.

[CCTV]

The FA accept that Cavani was not intentionally racist. It seems that his quarantine on arrival in the country disrupted his media training.

I'd love to know what happens to his £100,000 fine.

Should compensate the person he greeted cordially in his mother tongue.

[Kev0909]

Should compensate the person he greeted cordially in his mother tongue.

You mean the guy that was probably over the moon cavani had him in his story?

Heck why not

[CCTV]

You mean the guy that was probably over the moon cavani had him in his story?

Heck why not

Yeah, but later on that person could have realised if he misinterpreted & misunderstood Cavani and looked at it from a different point of view he could have been a victim.

[Kev0909]

Yeah, but later on that person could have realised if he misinterpreted & misunderstood Cavani and looked at it from a different point of view he could have been a victim.

yeah, I'm sure, I mean if Henderson called me something that I wouldn't find ever offensive because I know the actual way henderson talks because i'm english and wouldn't ever take it in a racist way because it's not here in the slightest, I'd be dead offended, i'd cry myself to sleep

Same with this guy and my god I bet he hated a famous player re-sharing something!

it's bullshit

Same people that think Cavani can be compared to Suarez, or cavani is actually a bad person.. is the same wetwipe soft society that will clap at 8pm to make themselves feel good for #claptheheroes, which all a load of self-worth bollocks because I don't know anyone in the NHS that wants people clapping, was a big backlash on twitter about it. People like to think they're the "good guys" ya know?

People actually need to learn what "racisim" properely is, without jumping the gun because the FA said so, amongst other things instead of always thinking they're the good guy, same for anything oooo i'm backing the owners 100% when they're not spending any money and basically throwin the season because i'm a top fucking fan init

Go outside your door, go near to people and clap, after seeign groups of idiots lasttime using it as a social call

/Rantover
/Notaimedatyou

[CCTV]

yeah, I'm sure, I mean if Henderson called me something that I wouldn't find ever offensive because I know the actual way henderson talks because i'm english and wouldn't ever take it in a racist way because it's not here in the slightest, I'd be dead offended, i'd cry myself to sleep

Same with this guy and my god I bet he hated a famous player re-sharing something!

it's bullshit

Same people that think Cavani can be compared to Suarez, or cavani is actually a bad person.. is the same wetwipe soft society that will clap at 8pm to make themselves feel good for #claptheheroes, which all a load of self-worth bollocks because I don't know anyone in the NHS that wants people clapping, was a big backlash on twitter about it. People like to think they're the "good guys" ya know?

People actually need to learn what "racisim" properely is, without jumping the gun because the FA said so, amongst other things instead of always thinking they're the good guy, same for anything oooo i'm backing the owners 100% when they're not spending any money and basically throwin the season because i'm a top fucking fan init

Go outside your door, go near to people and clap, after seeign groups of idiots lasttime using it as a social call

To rephrase a Trevor Philips insight from gta5.
The clapping isn't for the nhs (the clapees) the clapping is for the clappers

[CCTV]

Ps if you want to take aim at me, fire away Kev :)

I've got 2 superhero powers, I laugh a lot and if people are angry with me I don't expect them to be rational.

[stevie harkness]

That's the thing though Kev , the FA say there was no racist intent but they're still happy to take £100,000 off him.

As for clapping, I'm not going to stand outside in this weather in case I catch cold and put an extra burden on the NHS

[Kev0909]

That's the thing though Kev , the FA say there was no racist intent but they're still happy to take £100,000 off him.

As for clapping, I'm not going to stand outside in this weather in case I catch cold and put an extra burden on the NHS

Exactly what I mean, plus it's icey in parts some old darling may think it's a good idea and have a fall

Even if one person caught it this way (houses can be very close together) and ended up in hospital it's not worth it, boils my piss how stupid this country is hence the rant, the women that started it up again is doing it for herself and some fame too, apparently "backed out" of clapping herself now because of insults/abuse, I was following the twitter feed last night and the comments and obviously made some myself, and they was all respectful and making sense and no abuse was directed at the women in question. (she deleted it now because noone was backing the idea, and all anti it, even people in NHS)

Absolute joke of a lady.

She's got blood on her hands if it spreads this way and someone dies, or someone falls over clapping!

I simply tweeted her saying my house is very close to nextdoors.. if we both go outside we'll be next to each other clapping, like many in the UK are, you do know there's a "super spreader" strain now right?...I hope you clap for anyone that catches it this way.

and people wonder why the UK is shit at handling this shit

1) the people are retarded (Much like america)
2) Boris

[Kev0909]

I didn't hear one clap!

Good


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Qq9JMx3mw&feature=youtu.be

[stevie harkness]

Boo for Boris? Now that is an idea.

[redebreck]

Is the clap anything like crabs?
Asking for a friend.

[RedNoodle]

Is the clap anything like crabs?
Asking for a friend.

Thinking of having a clap sandwich?

[redebreck]

Thinking of having a clap sandwich?

Yes, with boos :)

[RedNoodle]

Yes, with boos :)

Enjoy.

I've got a choice between some reheated steak, peas, new potatoes and toms, a smoked salami/sausage/cheese roll and/or sarnie, and a cup of tea or decaffeinated coffee.

As for a 'clap sandwich' I'd just like the opportunity to 'have a bite' fnar, fnar. Though I don't think there is enough boos in the world for anyone to agree to my request. :(

[redebreck]

Enjoy.

As for a 'clap sandwich' I'd just like the opportunity to 'have a bite' fnar, fnar. Though I don't think there is enough boos in the world for anyone to agree to my request. :(

What about a blindfold and/or drugs?

[RedNoodle]

What about a blindfold and/or drugs?

I use a blindfold to try and help me block out the light, and I take plenty of medication, but what do I do about/use on these 'others'?

Perhaps an online course in hypnotism?

[Taksin]

Good to hear a black player articulating some interesting thoughts about racism and how not to respond. I hope we can all stop kneeling down soon.

Wilfried Zaha: Crystal Palace forward will stop taking the knee before matches

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56117084

[Kev0909]

I'm not black, but I agree with him

[Taksin]

I heard one of the boxers saying a similar thing. Stand tall. Show your not affected

[stevie harkness]

Fair point. I understood that Colin Kaepernick's protest was kneeling to the US flag and anthem, to show respect with reservation, as opposed to turning his back or mooning etc.

[faridtoxteth]

Fair point. I understood that Colin Kaepernick's protest was kneeling to the US flag and anthem, to show respect with reservation, as opposed to turning his back or mooning etc.

Exactly.
The origin of taking the knee was to show that he had reservations about the blind allegiance to the flag and what the flag represents in what is perhaps the most racist country in the western world..

[justme]

Seems moronic copycats are carrying on the racist abuse on social media. The only solution i can think off is to have posts moderated before the player/s get to view the messages..It will cost for someone to sit there and check messages. But Twitter or football clubs should pay for it. There maybe a slight delay in the person reading to receive the posts. But it would stop the comments getting through.
Not everyone on twitter or any other social media out put would be able to have their messages moderator prior to them seeing them. theres 100s of millions of them happening every day. But it should be given to people who are at most risk of abuse. Its a shame that it has to happen at all. But such is some humans behaviour. its never 100% avoidable

[CCTV]

Exactly.
The origin of taking the knee was to show that he had reservations about the blind allegiance to the flag and what the flag represents in what is perhaps the most racist country in the western world..

Perhaps the UK is the most racist, I can't think of another state that covered up one races men raping another races girls, or the double standards in policing over BLM & WLM.

If we are only looking at anti-black racism perhaps Italy, Spain or even France could be considered more racist. I think Italy and Spain are worth considering more so than France

[CCTV]

Seems moronic copycats are carrying on the racist abuse on social media. The only solution i can think off is to have posts moderated before the player/s get to view the messages..It will cost for someone to sit there and check messages. But Twitter or football clubs should pay for it. There maybe a slight delay in the person reading to receive the posts. But it would stop the comments getting through.
Not everyone on twitter or any other social media out put would be able to have their messages moderator prior to them seeing them. theres 100s of millions of them happening every day. But it should be given to people who are at most risk of abuse. Its a shame that it has to happen at all. But such is some humans behaviour. its never 100% avoidable

No it's not avoidable, when you have the power of authority you will always encounter resistance to said power of authority.

The n word perhaps is deployed more frequently as the racial aspect of equality legislation is given a privilige over the other protected classes. It's the voldermort of social justice warriors, perhaps only over taken by trans issues in recent times.

One solution would be to de-power the impact, remember in Malcolm X's autobiography where he spoke of seeing himself as a proud black man and thereafter the n-word solicited no emotional response from him.
I'm not too hopeful on this solution being chosen as to my impressions the new BLM marxists seem rather at odds with the era of MLK and Malcolm X's.

I think Neymar had a brilliant reaction to the banana being thrown on the pitch where he simply ate it. Iirc Sterling had a great match one time he had received abuse abroad with England, if it's going to bother you being called names may as well use the emotion to your benefit. Harness the power via your own processing.

Personally I cannot understand how anyone takes online verbal abuse seriously.
From my perspective there are probably only a handful of people whose words matter to me, each of them know me well enough to critique my being, habit or actions where that criticism could be stinging or hard to take.
Otherwise I'll listen to people grievances to see if they have a point or not, then reassess if needed

[CCTV]

Illicited not solicited

[Crimson Dynasty]

Good to hear a black player articulating some interesting thoughts about racism and how not to respond. I hope we can all stop kneeling down soon.

Wilfried Zaha: Crystal Palace forward will stop taking the knee before matches

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56117084

I don't think the takeaway from that was that,.... "we should stop kneeling because, ...we shouldn't bother dealing with racism anymore"

I think his point was that if we're going to kneel without actually doing anything (tangible) about ACTUAL racism outside the football field, then it's pointless to do all these gestures that are nothing more than performative self-fellating circle jerks to make ourselves (as a society) feel better about ourselves having done something, when we've really done nothing.

Not..."Let's not kneel anymore. It's never going to fix the problem soo why bother.

But rather,..."If we're going to kneel that let's at least make it mean something and actually do something about it, otherwise bin it all, and keep pretending it's not a problem"


And by the way, nobody is forcing anyone to kneel who doesn't want to kneel.
Getting rid of racism as a society shouldn't have to be a burden or obligation.

Living with it and suffering from it is what is the actual burden for those that actually suffer from it.

[Crimson Dynasty]

......
I think Neymar had a brilliant reaction to the banana being thrown on the pitch where he simply ate it. Iirc Sterling had a great match one time he had received abuse abroad with England, if it's going to bother you being called names may as well use the emotion to your benefit. Harness the power via your own processing.

Personally I cannot understand how anyone takes online verbal abuse seriously.
....


Easy too say when you're not the the one actually suffering the abuse and haven't been dealing with it your whole life, like they have.

You don't know how much of racism a particular player (or person) has had to deal with when they get to that point that that banana thrown at them is the final breaking point and last straw for them that causes them to finally lose it, walk off or to get mad.

You don't know how many times they've already had to,... 'let it slide', ....as it were, or ignore it ,or 'turn it around use it as motivation or whatever',... however you think they should in their lives, prior to that point.

And also, even if they can't or don't, who is anyone to judge someone else if they don't have as high a threshold for abuse as one may feel they should have - particularly if they've never walked a mile in said person's shoes and known what it's like to be treated that way, especially day in and day out?


Different players just like different individuals will deal with it differently as we all have different coping levels in life.
That's just human nature.

[justme]

Personally I cannot understand how anyone takes online verbal abuse seriously.
From my perspective there are probably only a handful of people whose words matter to me, each of them know me well enough to critique my being, habit or actions where that criticism could be stinging or hard to take.
Otherwise I'll listen to people grievances to see if they have a point or not, then reassess if needed


But when you go on to chat to fans and others. You shouldnt have to deal with someone popping onto your account to attack you racially. Its not easy to say why allow it to bother you. It does.
You'll find humans tend to be want to be accepted for who they are. Not to be abused for something that is used to make someone feel bad.

[Taksin]

But rather,..."If we're going to kneel that let's at least make it mean something and actually do something about it, otherwise bin it all, and keep pretending it's not a problem"



What he said was

"Why must I even wear Black Lives Matter on the back of my top to show you that we matter? This is all degrading stuff."

To call it degrading is making a very particular point. It causes us to see black people as victims and powerless. It also insinuates that white people don't think black people matter, which is also degrading. I disagree with you no-one is being forced to kneel - it takes extreme courage to decline it and I'd imagine many think its not worth the bother.

and

"With taking a knee, sometimes people forget we have to do it. It is becoming something we just do. That is not enough for me."

Here what you're saying is correct. He doesn't think it solves what is a real problem and needs work.

and

"Growing up, my parents let me know I should be proud to be black. We should stand tall."

This is an interesting point. I think this shows actual self worth and value. You are strong enough to cope with racist abuse. I would contrast this attitude of Raheem Sterling and Danny Rose who have made traction for themselves out of the smallest incidents, with the assumption that they are doing something for society. But they are reacting to a handful of idiots who are generally hounded out wherever possible. Their reactions achieve exactly what the idiots intended. And so they show themselves to be vulnerable to the abuse.

The thing very few people get is that BLM are not built on a philosophy of equality. They claim that all western society is racist (against black people) and that therefore all white people are racist. There is no justice until we destroy all the institutions, root out those in power and institute a new society where the victims become the highest. It is essentially a Marxist fantasy. So taking the knee against 'racism' is not as straight forward as it seems. I think the clubs should stop asking the players to bow down to what is, in my view, an evil philosophy.

[teesred]

No it's not avoidable, when you have the power of authority you will always encounter resistance to said power of authority.

The n word perhaps is deployed more frequently as the racial aspect of equality legislation is given a privilige over the other protected classes. It's the voldermort of social justice warriors, perhaps only over taken by trans issues in recent times.

One solution would be to de-power the impact, remember in Malcolm X's autobiography where he spoke of seeing himself as a proud black man and thereafter the n-word solicited no emotional response from him.
I'm not too hopeful on this solution being chosen as to my impressions the new BLM marxists seem rather at odds with the era of MLK and Malcolm X's.

I think Neymar had a brilliant reaction to the banana being thrown on the pitch where he simply ate it. Iirc Sterling had a great match one time he had received abuse abroad with England, if it's going to bother you being called names may as well use the emotion to your benefit. Harness the power via your own processing.

Personally I cannot understand how anyone takes online verbal abuse seriously.
From my perspective there are probably only a handful of people whose words matter to me, each of them know me well enough to critique my being, habit or actions where that criticism could be stinging or hard to take.
Otherwise I'll listen to people grievances to see if they have a point or not, then reassess if needed

I'm actually just getting towards the end of Malcolm X's biography. Its really good. He makes some amazing points that are very apt at this point in time, not just about systemic racism but of other things happening in the world too.

When the latest club stopped taking the knee I said to a few pals I wonder which Premier league club will be the first. Its clearly become a box ticking excercise for the league and the clubs and this kind of PR based approach isn't solving the problem.

[CCTV]

But when you go on to chat to fans and others. You shouldnt have to deal with someone popping onto your account to attack you racially. Its not easy to say why allow it to bother you. It does.
You'll find humans tend to be want to be accepted for who they are. Not to be abused for something that is used to make someone feel bad.

Lots of things bother people. People imo tend to be a bit tyrannical. They want to see their selves and values accepted, but rarely those who they oppose - crush those who object into submission seems to be a part of wanting acceptance paradoxically. Accept me - reject not me.

[CCTV]

I'm actually just getting towards the end of Malcolm X's biography. Its really good. He makes some amazing points that are very apt at this point in time, not just about systemic racism but of other things happening in the world too.

When the latest club stopped taking the knee I said to a few pals I wonder which Premier league club will be the first. Its clearly become a box ticking excercise for the league and the clubs and this kind of PR based approach isn't solving the problem.

The Irish and Welsh side all stood during the event last weekend. 14/30 English lads with the Big Billy V (no8) not kneeling and being a critic of BLM for their espoused values conflicting with his own values.
The rugby associations had to release press pieces as a result, whereby the basics of it is that it is their habit to stand and not to kneel. They will keep with their tradition and not submit to the demands for new habits. Billy V a more vocal critic.

It's an interesting book, I read it when I was 13 or so, doubt many people today are too aware of how he described himself as living like a N and how he viewed himself as a proud black man and the ways he carried himself then.
I never did get the matchbox of nutmeg to work iirc.

[CCTV]

Will reply to you later CD as it's a bit longer.

[justme]

Lots of things bother people. People imo tend to be a bit tyrannical. They want to see their selves and values accepted, but rarely those who they oppose - crush those who object into submission seems to be a part of wanting acceptance paradoxically. Accept me - reject not me.

I dont understand how you come to this conclusion over racism and people being abused about their skin colour. But hey it takes all sorts i suppose

[CCTV]

I dont understand how you come to this conclusion over racism and people being abused about their skin colour. But hey it takes all sorts i suppose

It does, it is the cost of living in a changing world, a more diverse nation and a multicultural Society.
Homogeneity or less diversity has been shown to produce higher social and civic life outcomes.
https://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/
Merkel like Farage, has said multiculturalism is broke and doesn't work, unlike Farage she hasn't been dubbed a nazi. The imagined desires of intent do have to deal with reality.
I'd like to make the world a better place, doesn't mean I'm correct or my theories produce results.

Remember you called those people different to you bible bashers.
That wasn't very sensitive, whilst it would appear other bible bashers, as in not the devout religious folk you called bible bashers, but the atheists like Dawkins troll religious people even muslims on occasions and aren't sensitive to others feelings either.

Same with many other terms, they cause division, you either live with the division, argue your points or crush the enemy of your desires for some imaginary utopia.
Seems your justice means condemning in line with justme, and thinking bible bashers is an appropriate term again in line with yourself.
Racial abuse being wrong because it hurts peoples feelings, but bible bashers is ok because it doesn't hurt your feelings.

Now people will say religion is a choice, but it is also a choice to live where you do by and large, especially outside of your own nation. Migration is a choice. Sometimes a desperate one.

If bame people chose to live in a society where the msm detail how they can be used to win elections and eliminate their domestic traditionally white rivals as with the UK, that too is a choice. Some even describe demographic changes as we're winning.

It's not surprising to me that where a half of natives are projected to be dispossessed politically that tensions would arise. One half of white seemingly using bame cohort as a means to an end. One half even saying you ain't black for voting otherwise, or that you are multiracial white supremacy. That bame Tory voters are in need of more derision and exclusion than whites embodying whiteness, as they are race traitors.

Similarly the dubbed whitelash (from backlash) isn't a surprise to me. Where a system reacts differently than the expectations of those with simple thoughts are looking to fix outcomes.

Similarly with online media abuse that those dubbed most blasphemous to the new cathedral are more frequently utilised to provoke.

Personally I try to stay away from slurs, I do cite them, but I do defend other peoples rights to say what they like about the Tory scum, bible bashers, trumptards etc.

For me it's better to find solutions and agreements and upsetting people with the realities of life is just a reality. A spoilt kid could get upset at not getting the supercar they desired. Doesn't mean I should walk in their shoes so as to understand their feelings.
I already know what it is like to have desires that didn't materialise. I know what it is to be spoilt or blessed.

With respect to Dawkins or you, I support your right to be offensive in the utterances you make.