The demise of Liverpool Football Club

[Balinkay]

Thought it only appropriate to have one of these as we have one for the Mancs. :D

[ianlfc]

hopefully it will have the same effect 🤣🤣

[Kev0909]

Soon as firmino goes the better

[Balinkay]

Don't sit on the fence Kev, let us know how you really feel about Bobby!

[miller0863]

Wish the mods would lock the Manc one, it’s bleeding embarrassing

[HLOGI]

Lol. Worst team in the league. 😋

[Balinkay]

Wish the mods would lock the Manc one, it’s bleeding embarrassing

Bagh - it's fine. We shouldn't take any of this too seriously. If we can't have a laugh at their and our own expense, what's the point? ^^

[stevie harkness]

Merge this thread with the one on red cafe

[Kev0909]

these boys are mentality monsters you know!!!

wonder if arsenal TV want to change jobs to liverpool TV??

Basically the same lately (pre arsenal wins)

[Insidious]

Wish the mods would lock the Manc one, it’s bleeding embarrassing

Nah.

They haven't won any of the last 7 League titles, having won 13 of the 18 previous.

That's a demise, irrespective of what is going on with us. They look like having a bit of a resurgence at present, but purple patches (followed by malaises) are a feature of Solskjaer's United and if they hadn't been handed almost as many pens as it has taken us five seasons to accumulate they wouldn't be close.

[redebreck]

We need to turn things around.
Quickly.
Starting with our game against ManU, I hope.

[Kev0909]

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/138274905_10160100330207573_4953786074344031588_o. jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=FbrEe3AEZMEAX-JQX9_&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=7deddc3beae1dfee3017eb173ceb773b&oe=601FD5D9

At least salah's got a new career lined up

[RedNoodle]

As the owner of an upmarket S&M dungeon?

[dicko1969]

97 points to 99 points.
To a normal tally.

Goodness people are dramatic

[Nineteenx]

97 points to 99 points.
To a normal tally.

Goodness people are dramatic

We've been robbed of 2 points v the bitters, 2 points v Brighton, 2 points v West Brom, 2 points v Newcastle and at least a point v Southampton, that's 9 points we've been robbed of through plain corrupt officiating, it also has to be remembered that these set backs and stitch ups can also affect form and confidennce

Our players need to accept that VAR is a stitch up and the officiating they have been receiving this season is appallingly corrupt and they HAVE to use that to drive them to work even harder, to be more ruthless and clinical with their chances and in everything else they do and not give the corrupt bastards a sniff of an opportunity to make a plain wrong call and give something against them

[ianlfc]

We've been robbed of 2 points v the bitters, 2 points v Brighton, 2 points v West Brom, 2 points v Newcastle and at least a point v Southampton, that's 9 points we've been robbed of through plain corrupt officiating, it also has to be remembered that these set backs and stitch ups can also affect form and confidennce

Our players need to accept that VAR is a stitch up and the officiating they have been receiving this season is appallingly corrupt and they HAVE to use that to drive them to work even harder, to be more ruthless and clinical with their chances and in everything else they do and not give the corrupt bastards a sniff of an opportunity to make a plain wrong call and give something against them

So is VAR to blame for our shocking performances recently?

[Steveo]

Must be Ian. To date no other excuse has been found. But I imagine there are a few working on them.

[skyebo]

Fans of all premier league teams will have the same view of VAR, it's a good idea if decisions go their way.

[redebreck]

So is VAR to blame for our shocking performances recently?

It can if it disrupts positive momentum.
Look at united's momentum with all the VAR decisions they've benefited from.
Wonder what odds you can get at the bookies for united getting a penalty on Sunday?

[Taksin]

So is VAR to blame for our shocking performances recently?

You don't need to ask that question because 19x has already said

"stitch ups can also affect form and confidennce"

So he believes it is at least partially to blame for our form, although I doubt he would describe our performances as ''shocking'. Neither would I.

[skyebo]

VAR has absolutely nothing to do with a team's form. Could we put our poor form down to refereeing decisions before VAR was introduced? no we couldn't. If players are worrying about what decisions they are going to come up with before they step on the pitch, they shouldn't been in the sport to begin with. Total nonsense.

[ianlfc]

You don't need to ask that question because 19x has already said

"stitch ups can also affect form and confidennce"

So he believes it is at least partially to blame for our form, although I doubt he would describe our performances as ''shocking'. Neither would I.

Drawing with Fulham, West Brom and Newcastle plus the defeat to Southampton in my eyes were bloody shocking.

[LFC-DPG]

We’ll struggle for top 4 at this rate, we’ve been shite.

[LEGS]

We are playing poor but is anyone playing that well this season ?

I think Utd/City will be top 2 that will upset people but its how I see it.

I'd take 4th if offered right now thats how concerned I am with the season.

[miller0863]

Think you may be right on the top two Legs but I think we’ll have enough for third.

[justme]

We'll still win the league..

[Balinkay]

I still fancy us to win this thing no matter the result on Sunday.

[Taksin]

There’s no fans. It not really football

[Steveo]

No doubt at all that behind closed doors is shite BUT If no fans means it isn’t really football and people think it shouldn’t count - then we didn’t win the title last season..?

Also we were one of the few clubs to benefit this season from fans at some home games - most others have not - certainly United haven’t.

Some of the excuses being put forward seem extremely coincidental in their timing

[Balinkay]

This ^

[Taksin]

No doubt at all that behind closed doors is shite BUT If no fans means it isn’t really football and people think it shouldn’t count - then we didn’t win the title last season..?

Also we were one of the few clubs to benefit this season from fans at some home games - most others have not - certainly United haven’t.

Some of the excuses being put forward seem extremely coincidental in their timing

It's not an excuse for anything. I just find it weird listening to people talking about what we should be like. It's not really football.

I think we have played well enough, with some unjust results, as 19x details. I just can't take it that seriously that's all. Football needs fans to make sense.

And yes I do believe we won it last season. It would have been insane if it was taken away from us.

[Steveo]

What seems ‘weirdest’ to me is this overblown sense of VAR injustice the moment we are less than stellar - while most of last season as we were on top and pulling away - gaining a few nice VAR interjections en route - everything was fine and dandy.

Also - very few mention the injuries that City, Spurs or even United had to contend with last season while suddenly this season - we are the victims of an unprecedented crisis.

There are elements of truth to both viewpoints but seems ott to me.

The key issue we are facing is to do with a squad that isn’t big enough. We count numbers but plenty of those numbers are never fit.

[LEGS]

We did win it last season as when it got stopped we were one point ahead of what Man City ended up with.

It isnt the same and it is clearly having an affect on results/performances for all teams.

The show goes on as the money rolls in if this happened in the pre premier league era we wouldnt be playing imo.

[Steveo]

Come on LEGS mate - 1 point ahead of what City ended up with AFTER no fans.

You want it every way you can have it.

This excuse factory is in full swing.

I can promise you - it looks small time to be making out it affects us more than others.

As you have said it affects all clubs. Just as VAR does and as Referees do.

[LEGS]

Come on LEGS mate - 1 point ahead of what City ended up with AFTER no fans.

You want it every way you can have it.

This excuse factory is in full swing.

I can promise you - it looks small time to be making out it affects us more than others.

As you have said it affects all clubs. Just as VAR does and as Referees do.

Lets be clear we were about 20 points clear there was ZERO chance of us not winning it.

You would back Burnley to get over the line with that lead nevermind us.

It isnt the same and I said it before a ball was kicked this season.

It is what it is this season no crying from me I said City will win it before the season and I believe they will do.

[TheDOC1979]

What seems ‘weirdest’ to me is this overblown sense of VAR injustice the moment we are less than stellar - while most of last season as we were on top and pulling away - gaining a few nice VAR interjections en route - everything was fine and dandy.

Also - very few mention the injuries that City, Spurs or even United had to contend with last season while suddenly this season - we are the victims of an unprecedented crisis.

There are elements of truth to both viewpoints but seems ott to me.

The key issue we are facing is to do with a squad that isn’t big enough. We count numbers but plenty of those numbers are never fit.

Never fit and not good enough.

Totally agree with the post.

Klopp should shut up and crack on with the job. This constant complaining is just boring and taking away from our failings.

The players posting utter tripe after a bad performance on social media also needs to stop. A load of bollocks to try and appease fans when we know they stunk the place out

[Kev0909]

Come on LEGS mate - 1 point ahead of what City ended up with AFTER no fans.

You want it every way you can have it.

This excuse factory is in full swing.

I can promise you - it looks small time to be making out it affects us more than others.

As you have said it affects all clubs. Just as VAR does and as Referees do.

Bored of it tbh

Also liverpool without penos joint 10th
Penutd without penos 2nd

Apparently

Since klopp has been whining we've played shit, sort your subs out, sometimes tactics and players then you wouldn't need to whine..... true facts and have a word with FSG...... to scrape some money for a CB if it's a issue fucking sort it

Literally we're begging for penalties these days, because that's the only way we can score apparently

I hope I'm wrong but think this team as it has peaked a bit, so too as klopp

[skyebo]

It's the demise of Guardiola as City manager i would like to see.

[TheDOC1979]

Think we should concentrate on our club and how we’re doing rather than focusing on our rivals.

Petty and pathetic if you ask me.

[skyebo]

McAteer saying United are in a false position and will drop off eventually. No, they are not, the league table doesn't lie. He should choose his words more carefully.

[Taksin]

What seems ‘weirdest’ to me is this overblown sense of VAR injustice the moment we are less than stellar - while most of last season as we were on top and pulling away - gaining a few nice VAR interjections en route - everything was fine and dandy.

Also - very few mention the injuries that City, Spurs or even United had to contend with last season while suddenly this season - we are the victims of an unprecedented crisis.

There are elements of truth to both viewpoints but seems ott to me.

The key issue we are facing is to do with a squad that isn’t big enough. We count numbers but plenty of those numbers are never fit.

But so many results turn on small margins. We pulled off loads of remarkable victories last season, many of them last minute. I have no doubt many of them were influenced by our tremendous support. Even the away results. We kept pushing and we now have a team that is talented enough to find a way through. Many of those wins would have been described as shockingly bad if they were draws or losses. But they weren't.

19x is right that injustices do affect the mentality and belief of the team. There's no way we should've not won against Everton this season, for example, but we didn't partly because of the VAR decisions, partly because the team started to think they were cursed and partly because there was no fans there to remind them about who we are. It's not moaning to recognise this - its more like a scientific fact. Whether or not there is an actual conspiracy against us, it's still true.

Injuries can have a similar effect. If we don't win this year you could say its because our squad isn't good enough to cope with injuries but on some level, losing Van Djik is just bad luck and hard to recover from. Especially when you lose points unjustly in the game he was injured in. The doubts start to creep in that we are cursed. Psychology is important. Against Southampton, our world class right back has a momentary brain fart, Ings flukes a cross in off his shin, they defend excellently and the team loses a bit more belief in itself, unable to find the magic. To say we were shocking is a bit far fetched.

Klopp's complaining about fixture congestion and TV scheduling for those in European comps started before the injury crisis, by the way. He was very fair about it and often pointed out that other teams -our closest rivals - were in the same boat. Jose used it for mind games until things started going against him (as if Klopp was moaning about injuries, which he actually wasn't). That was shithouse behaviour. Klopp has actually been consistent on this issue and it's totally fair to say performances will drop and players will get tired if fixture arrangements don't take this into account. I can't remember who we played against fairly early on - someone like Wolves - but the commentator pointed out that we had already played 8 games more than them at that stage of the season.

Supporters on here turning on Klopp for whinging as if he's making excuses for our shockingly bad form are skirting a bit close to just being media hacks in my opinion. We are still top of the table and my prediction is we will probably win it when all is said and done. But this is a very strange year to know what's what and injury crises can be expected to put a spanner in the works no matter how good your recruitment policy is.

[Kev0909]

[QUOTE=Taksin;2676103]
We are still top of the table and my prediction is we will probably win it when all is said and done

No we're not, utd are above us by 3 pts not that it's much but a lot of teams are close

[Taksin]

[QUOTE=Taksin;2676103]
We are still top of the table and my prediction is we will probably win it when all is said and done

No we're not, utd are above us by 3 pts not that it's much but a lot of teams are close

Whether teams are close or not we are still at the top of the table. If you think I didn't know Man U have more points than us, rest assured I'm not completely stupid.

[skyebo]

We have only lost 2 league games this season, one with VVD in the team, and one without him. We are not conceding any more goals while he's injured, we are just not finishing teams off. Pretty poor pointing the finger at VAR decisions when we can only manage draws against Brighton WBA and Fulham and lose at Southampton. Two of those were promoted and another one in 17th place. We need to look at our own shortcomings before looking at other things to blame and whinge over. We should be beating these teams, even with our injury problems our squad is much better than them all. How come no-one mentions VAR decisions that have gone against us in games that we've gone on to win, there must have been some of those. And people call Everton the bitters.

[Kev0909]

We have only lost 2 league games this season, one with VVD in the team, and one without him. We are not conceding any more goals while he's injured, we are just not finishing teams off. Pretty poor pointing the finger at VAR decisions when we can only manage draws against Brighton WBA and Fulham and lose at Southampton. Two of those were promoted and another one in 17th place. We need to look at our own shortcomings before looking at other things to blame and whinge over. We should be beating these teams, even with our injury problems our squad is much better than them all. How come no-one mentions VAR decisions that have gone against us in games that we've gone on to win, there must have been some of those. And people call Everton the bitters.

Exactly, it's pathetic

[LEGS]

I dont think it is pathetic at all when you have VAR no "mistakes" should happen it is either clear or its not.

VAR just doesnt work in football lets be honest for example, if someone runs at you at pace and you get the ball when slowed down its going to show contact so looks a foul.

Klopp is basically saying give the same decisions you gave last week to other teams thats not whining its being honest.

I would prefer to go back to the ref making the decision and you like it or lump it.

[skyebo]

I dont think it is pathetic at all when you have VAR no "mistakes" should happen it is either clear or its not.

VAR just doesnt work in football lets be honest for example, if someone runs at you at pace and you get the ball when slowed down its going to show contact so looks a foul.

Klopp is basically saying give the same decisions you gave last week to other teams thats not whining its being honest.

I would prefer to go back to the ref making the decision and you like it or lump it.

Klopp's been in the game long enough to know there will always be inconsistencies when it comes down to VAR and their decisions on it, because they are humans making all those decisions, unlike Goal line technology which is totally accurate all of the time. He should be asking his players why they weren't good enough to take all 3 points against Brighton WBA Fulham and Newcastle. If he needs VAR to win us games, maybe he needs to look for fresh talent.

[LEGS]

VAR has only been in a few years though and the whole point of it is mistakes aren't made.

I'm not excusing the games against those teams and not beating them those results happen and it isn't my point.

The most important person used to be the ref on the pitch amongst the action now he isn't some random stuck in Stockley Park clouds his judgment.

I think like the 3rd umpire in cricket that the VAR people should make the call not put doubts in a refs head.

Its a simple game complicated by idiots.

[LEGS]

The goal line technology works 99.99% of the time.

Remember the goal Sheff Utd scored against Villa last season that got Villa a point could have kept them up.

All VAR had to do was check and say "ref the ball was in give Sheff Utd the goal"

Its a shambles they MUST have seen it and there are two reasons either they were all blind or they were cheating.

[skyebo]

VAR has only been in a few years though and the whole point of it is mistakes aren't made.

I'm not excusing the games against those teams and not beating them those results happen and it isn't my point.

The most important person used to be the ref on the pitch amongst the action now he isn't some random stuck in Stockley Park clouds his judgment.

I think like the 3rd umpire in cricket that the VAR people should make the call not put doubts in a refs head.

Its a simple game complicated by idiots.

There have always been inconsistencies with just referees making the decisions. One will see things differently than someone else, which is what's happening now with VAR. Its not settling arguments, it's causing them.

[Kev0909]

Yes it is pathetic because instead of not blaming the team and 1000 chances they've missed, people bring up VAR every time, whereas if we won noone would care...

anything but the team/klopp

sounding more like mancs by the day

I hope the team is taking some responsibility at least

[LEGS]

Yes it is pathetic because instead of not blaming the team and 1000 chances they've missed, people bring up VAR every time, whereas if we won noone would care...

anything but the team/klopp

sounding more like mancs by the day

I hope the team is taking some responsibility at least

I have said we havent played well several times on here but neither has anybody else really.

I wont put the boot in too much on any of our players I am intelligent enough to work out its not a proper season and it isnt (SAME FOR EVERYONE!)

You seem to enjoy ripping into the team and FSG at every chance available, speaking of that isnt that abit MANCS as well like they are with the Glaziers.

I am sure Klopp is saying things to them behind closed doors dont worry about that you dont win what has done by being a wimp.

[Kev0909]

exactly "same for everyone"

you seem to be happy about us doing shit latetly and happy to be 4th and go downhill from where we was , so i'm not surprised

I bet we've easily missed the most chances in the league so far but bohooo VAR going to fucking cry because we can't beat the likes of Wba fulham brighton any other way apart from a penalty

boohooo bringing milner/wij on to secure the famous draw will fix it, or a attacking option in the 91st min! FUCK SAKE VAR

boohoo unlucky with injury's but then moan when people quite rightly point FSG out with there netspend and the fact we can't bring a CB in, i'm not sure why utd fans hate on the glazers, not like they don't invest FUCK VAR MAN!

No other club would be in this position they'd sort it out at least the top clubs BOHOO VAR FSG THE BEST

Boohoo jota getting injured in a pointless game, FUCKING HELL GET RID OF VAR

But whatever makes you happy, let's just cry and blame VAR for everything

[LEGS]

Im not happy about us doing shit at all ive never once said that.

All I have said is the top 8 are very close to each other due to no pre season and covid, if next season is normal i'll bet you its nowhere near this close.

You seem to think we've won the league so we MUST stay there forever it doesnt work like that.

Man City are a force of their own NOBODY can compete squad wise with them whilst UAE are in town.

[Taksin]

We have only lost 2 league games this season, one with VVD in the team, and one without him. We are not conceding any more goals while he's injured, we are just not finishing teams off. Pretty poor pointing the finger at VAR decisions when we can only manage draws against Brighton WBA and Fulham and lose at Southampton. Two of those were promoted and another one in 17th place. We need to look at our own shortcomings before looking at other things to blame and whinge over. We should be beating these teams, even with our injury problems our squad is much better than them all. How come no-one mentions VAR decisions that have gone against us in games that we've gone on to win, there must have been some of those. And people call Everton the bitters.

I'm not the one pointing fingers. Not at the team, nor at Klopp. I think our form has been ok, given the fact that we are playing in empty stadiums, during the most surreal time in the history of the world outside of wartime. I don't think our form has been shockingly bad as some people on here do.

The WBA game, for example, was unusual because fat Sam had rallied their troops, got them to defend for their lives as if they might be able to turn things around, and got a defensive performance out of them. That could't last. These things happen to title winning teams.

The team is a few shades off its best but it has been affected by key injuries. You're using two games with VVD missing as your evidence but the actual evidence available to us is a bit more full than that isn't it.. The effect of losing your talisman for a season will be felt psychologically and technically. It was galling (and did impact the team's psychology) that the powers that be used VAR to deny justice to him and Thiago and to rule out some of our fantastic attacking play during the same game. Are we not allowed to point that out without descending to the level of being Bitters?

Similar things have happened elsewhere at key moments.

Again, these aren't excuses, they are just causes.

To anyone who thinks we are awful at the moment, I'd be interested to know what you think has caused this to happen?

[Balinkay]

Yes it is pathetic because instead of not blaming the team and 1000 chances they've missed, people bring up VAR every time, whereas if we won noone would care...


No. There's people on here who criticise the team after every result - win, loss or draw. Look at the post Spurs threads. Sure we were all happy but there was fair discussion about the large amount of top chances we let them create and why that was.

And yes. Of course if we win, we care less about bs VAR decisions because they've had less of an impact. The fact that we're not playing poorly doesn't mean VAR hasn't made terrible decisions against us and vice versa.

[Balinkay]

To anyone who thinks we are awful at the moment, I'd be interested to know what you think has caused this to happen?

Do you even need to ask? The most frequent (and possibly only) answer you'll get has three letters and is owned by someone whose name rhymes with Bronn Manly. :D

[Taksin]

Sean Dundee?

[Steveo]

Hhon Jenry...?

https://i.ibb.co/0Xwyhmr/pointer.gif

[Balinkay]

Juan Henrique.

[Steveo]

Juan Henrique.

Bugger me if it doesn’t sound a shed load better in Spanish

[Balinkay]

I know, right, Estebano?!

[boom-klopp]

Soon as firmino goes the better

agree, put salad on there too.
these two are the biggest culprits for us not winning the league this year.

a bang average team like man utd being 3 pts clear?? taking the piss that.

[justme]

Salah is currently the top scorer in the league. apart from that carry on

[skyebo]

agree, put salad on there too.
these two are the biggest culprits for us not winning the league this year.

a bang average team like man utd being 3 pts clear?? taking the piss that.

Who says we are not winning it ? It was never going to be as easy as last year, no-one is pulling clear and all are dropping points.

[Steveo]

Tbf think Leicester - United - City and Spurs all have similar points to last year skyebo - it’s us who are dropping the points relatively.

We are defending champions if is tougher to defend it than win it. Always was

[skyebo]

Tbf think Leicester - United - City and Spurs all have similar points to last year skyebo - it’s us who are dropping the points relatively.

We are defending champions if is tougher to defend it than win it. Always was

Thanks, i didn't know that. Agree with the last paragraph.

[miller0863]

League table not looking too crash hot right now. City will go 4 points clear of us when they win their game in hand.
The quality of the league is atrocious this season, now City are in their groove they will pull away from the rest and top 4 is going to be a real scrap.
Can’t believe we’ve dropped points in 9 games already.

Heading for a pretty limp 72 points at our current rate.

[LEGS]

League table not looking too crash hot right now. City will go 4 points clear of us when they win their game in hand.
The quality of the league is atrocious this season, now City are in their groove they will pull away from the rest and top 4 is going to be a real scrap.
Can’t believe we’ve dropped points in 9 games already.

Heading for a pretty limp 72 points at our current rate.

Yep City pulling away is a good thing as we dont want United winning it.

[RedNoodle]

Yep City pulling away is a good thing as we dont want United winning it.

That is how many of our fans used to look at things. I'd rather we did something about our issues, and quickly, not return to being 'also rans' and the way of thinking that you described which in all honest is very 'small time'.

[skyebo]

The only team we want to pull away is LFC and certainly not City.

[teesred]

League table not looking too crash hot right now. City will go 4 points clear of us when they win their game in hand.
The quality of the league is atrocious this season, now City are in their groove they will pull away from the rest and top 4 is going to be a real scrap.
Can’t believe we’ve dropped points in 9 games already.

Heading for a pretty limp 72 points at our current rate.

Agree. Still only half way but even if we managed to keep pace with them I wouldn't fancy us in a shoot out with them with say 5 or 6 games to go.
A shit season that cant end quick enough for me.

[LEGS]

That is how many of our fans used to look at things. I'd rather we did something about our issues, and quickly, not return to being 'also rans' and the way of thinking that you described which in all honest is very 'small time'.

Well you better get your head around it as I have said for 5-6 weeks now we arent winning it.

I said at start of season if you are going to have an off season this is the one its shit without fans lets be honest.

If this was the norm id fuck the game off its garbage and the stats prove it all around Europe.

[Kev0909]

Yeah look at the fixtures coming up, we've had a easy run.... this time last season we'd be 10 pts ahead after these fixtures apart from utd who we'd prob beat too.

I'm concerned we won't even make top 4

Burnley H

Man utd FA cup (can we just concede i cba)

Spurs away
West ham away
Brighton home (only game i'd say nailed on for 3 pts hard to say that atm tho)
man city home
Leicester away

Rb Lepzig home

Everton home

Then gets easier shef utd away fulham/home

at least chelsea are 5 pts behind in the race for top4

[eggy81]

Fixtures are set up to keep united competitive. We’re fucked in all honesty and need to regroup and get top 4. United have a lovely run of fixtures. We’ve visited tough games mixed in with ones we should be winning and city are somewhere in the middle. The loss off vvd and Gomez had ruined our season and not having jota too. After the run of fixtures we’ve just had we should have a cushion at the top of 6 to 9 points especially given we were clear coming into these fixtures. We’ve hit the wall unfortunately

[Kev0909]

You know it comes to something when I wish ings and lovren was still with us, i'd start him over bobby easily atm

if we're not going to use Origi we need to replace him with someone that can score as another option, even jota is more of a inside forward isn't he?

Money needs to be spent in the summer, and not all from sales 50/50 would be good... but that'll never happen.

This is what happens when..you have to sell to buy

[justme]

Money wont be spent until we sell one of the older forwards., I would be happy if we sold Firmino.He may help out in midfield. But you can always get your forward to drop in when needs be. But what you need is a central striker that actually looks like scoring.
I hope Klopp can see our issues and not stick to what has got us success in the past.
Teams have zero intentions of opening up at the back. They set out a game plan to play nearly all their 10 out field players between 35 and 45 yards from their area and play extremely compact.

I dont care what team you are even Barcelona at their best the compactness of the opposition make it virtually impossible for us to get pockets of space. Its so easy to defend front on and to block players on the floor.
Thats why we need a strong number 9 someone we can throw the ball into the box to attack. You always have the chance of the second ball then.
All we are doing is pass pass pass and then get caught with the ball. No team on earth can play with such refinement. Sadly low block football works. We need to press the opposition back line with a bit more physicality.

[RedNoodle]

You know it comes to something when I wish ings and lovren was still with us, i'd start him over bobby easily atm

if we're not going to use Origi we need to replace him with someone that can score as another option, even jota is more of a inside forward isn't he?

Money needs to be spent in the summer, and not all from sales 50/50 would be good... but that'll never happen.

This is what happens when..you have to sell to buy

Given some of the others we have on our books/are still relying on, we never should have sold Ings, though I suspect that the decision was partially, if not fully taken out of Klopp's hands. As for Loven, he or any other player we let go should be replaced. However 'we' are happy to let players go and to either not replace them at all, or hope that one of our inexperienced youngsters comes in and swims rather than sinks. That is not a viable long term strategy.

We need(ed) a few things, and have needed them for a while. We were already treading a fine line, one which is even finer than some think because of the way Klopp likes to play, and now we are reaping what FSG have sown.

As I said above, money should have been spent before now. Everybody can see the issues we have, but the only people whose opinion matters is FSG's. Based on previous windows and what Klopp has said, it looks like we won't be making any significant moves during the transfer window, something that is looking increasingly likely to scupper any chance we had of retaining our title, and it could yet cost us a top four place. Things were already bad enough in terms of FSG and their fans having things such as the stadium/training ground work, Covid etc as an excuse not to spend, but the more we miss out on this season (the title, CL football etc) the more 'ammunition' they and their 'fans' will have to justify us spending even less. :eek:

We don't need to sell to buy. We are the fith richest club in the world, have recently signed one of the potentially largest (if not the actual largest) deals in the history of football, are the current PL champions, the 2018 CL finalist and 2019 winners, the 2019 WCC champions, and on top of that have a net spend over the last five years of less than £20m per season. Some will mention our wage bill, but we do not spend that much more on wages than those we are competing with, especially when you take into account the fees we've spent, length/amount of recent extensions etc, never mind that 'other clubs' will have various ways and means of paying their players.

[Insidious]

Yeah look at the fixtures coming up

In a weird way, I am relatively pleased about our next three opponents. Not because I think it looks like three wins (as it really, really doesn't) but the style/philosophy of the sides.

Burnley, United and Spurs are all sides that are pretty physical and are all willing to "sit in" for prolonged spells, which is the exact lock we are having to learn how to unpick right now.

So we have three games in fairly quick succession where we can get some targeted practice in when it comes to dealing with our biggest weakness. Hopefully by the end of that three-match run we are a little bit closer in terms of finding solutions to the issue.

I'd also add that, much as I want Henderson in midfield, we may end up benefitting (depending on who Klopp picks, plus injuries) in developing some consistency in the back line - we have had multiple defensive partnerships at centre-back this season due to injury this season and if (big if) Henderson starts playing there more regularly for the short-term in rotation with Matip, it will hopefully ease the "chemistry" difficulties for Fabinho, rather than it being any one of four players (Matip, Hendo, Williams, Phillips) that he has to partner, which hopefully becomes a marginal gain.

Matip certainly won't be fit and available for the entirety of the games over the next 4-5 months so if we have decided Henderson is being used there for a bit, we can at least develop some rhythm again. Clean sheets would be a good platform upon which to build whilst we go through this challenging period.

[Insidious]

Just to add to this, SO much can change in a short space of time - and yes, that can be "for the worse" as well.

After 14 games we had just spanked Villa, were top, were 4 points clear of Leicester, were 5 points ahead of Man United, were 6 points ahead of Spurs and we were 8 points ahead of City. It's a mere 4 games later and we are on the verge of slipping out of the Champion's League spots. But are also within a points distance of top spot that is comparable to the ground that Leicester/Spurs/United/City gained on us - meaning we can gain on them in reverse.

A lot changed in 4 games and there are FIVE SETS of 4 League games left - so many potential twists and turns within the top few spots (City will be the most consistent you feel) so panicking is likely wasted energy.

Yes, we need solutions. Yes, we need them quickly. But we have THE man at the helm to help us do it. Our conversion rate in the last 62 efforts on goal is 1.6% - that is a statistical anomaly that won't last forever. That curled finish or quick reaction to the second ball or deflection that takes some psychological weight off is coming.

[LEGS]

Danny Ings left to get regular first team football he was never getting that here.

Funny people mention him too as he gets injured alot too.

We didnt make an error selling him we won the CL and league without him.

The decision to leave was Ings this has already been covered both Jurgen/Danny have said so.

We all know we need to bring players in and we need to sell a few like Origi but nobody is buying players so we need to wait for that to happen.

Clubs still dont know if fans will be in next season which is not good for anyone im already bored of this season and I cant be alone.

[Kev0909]

Nailed on for champions league

https://scontent-lhr8-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/139965356_2041074689389920_9063022967940202257_o.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Iui-VvQl5a4AX_k47gd&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-2.xx&oh=355ea0a44bfd183d5a2944c2f2c718fe&oe=602979D8

[Steveo]

That red kit on Stevie looks boss - can’t beat the all red..!

[Balinkay]

That red kit on Stevie looks boss - can’t beat the all red..!

Except it's not all red as it also has a white patch under the sleeve. :D But I see your point.

[Steveo]

Except it's not all red as it also has a white patch under the sleeve. :D But I see your point.

Yep they had to get a bit of darned white on there... I would just do away with all the messy - designed to identify which kit is this years to make parents buy a new one every season PESTER power - but that is where the money comes from I guess. Capitalism in full effect.

[Joetan991]

I do not think a team keep playing 2 CM as a 2 CD can win the league. Look at Man City last season.

[Insidious]

I do not think a team keep playing 2 CM as a 2 CD can win the league. Look at Man City last season.

Get what you're saying, but I really view the other end of the pitch as the problem at the moment (though I do bear in mind our centre-back pairing are two cogs in a well-oiled system) when I look at where the points are lost.

Only City and ourselves have lost 2 League games - everyone else has lost more, even if it's "only" 3 losses for some of those sides. I don't worry about our Midfielders in the back four causing losses, I worry about our attackers and creators not transforming draws into wins.

We have 7 draws now in the League - convert even 3 of those into narrow/lucky wins (we miss our threat from corners and free kicks, we don't seem to be getting to the second ball when the ball falls in the box, we aren't getting penalties, Trent is not a Suarez/Gerrard level of free-kick taker, long-range shots aren't deflecting in) and we have 6 more points, putting us top.

We need to unlock these defensive walls that we keep facing. The combo of Burnley, United, Spurs should at least represent a chance to get some practice in at that.

With a bit of luck the hunger that our forwards must now have (having gone three matches without a goal) will sneak us a win against Burnley and we can continue to stabilise a bit.

[dicko1969]

What is this about ... 1959 ?

[dicko1969]

This team/squad is near the end of its 4 year cycle.
The midfield and front 3 need a couple of players to regenerate it.

[RedNoodle]

This team/squad is near the end of its 4 year cycle.
The midfield and front 3 need a couple of players to regenerate it.

Unless you are going to finance that lot, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for those additions If I was you.

[dicko1969]

What part of covid don't you get ?

[RedNoodle]

What part of covid don't you get ?

What part of 'stop being an FSG shill' don't you get?

They have just been talking about Fulham, yes FULHAM almost certainly going into the market to get another forward. Have they suddenly become immune to the effects of covid? Or is it possible, no matter how remote you may think it may be, that FSG are tight as **** and are/will use covid as yet another excuse (as they recently did - I posted elsewhere on this) as to why we/they won't be spending much, if any money, and are in fact "taking time when it comes to renewing contracts"?

[Insidious]

Just wanted to add something, in terms of sides having a wobble, or worse, a capitulation.

There will be Twitterati out there bringing up Klopp's last season with Dortmund, 14/15 - and the fact that they were in the relegation zone.

What annoys me about that is that few will focus on the incredible turn-around that occurred in the second half of that season. They went from being a relegation zone side that year to nicking a Europa League spot at the Death.

People worry about us dropping out of the Top Four this year due to how competitive it is around us, coupled with our current malaise - and that's fine. But if we avoid defeat against Burnley, we will have lost two League games from our opening nineteen.

Klopp's 14/15 Dortmund had lost ELEVEN League matches by the 19-game mark.

If some of the footballing miracles of recent years of watching Liverpool aren't a source of comfort/inspiration for you right now, just look at turning around a season like that and what an accomplishment it was.

Win tomorrow and we have to fret about a 4-point deficit, whilst still having opportunities to play the rivals around us, thus putting (most of) our destiny into our own hands.

[Steveo]

A win tomorrow is far from guaranteed.

Let’s not tempt fate... But please Sid - where do you get those happy pills...? I could use some.

Not that we are sinking in the North Atlantic BUT I get the impression you would have been still whistling a merry little tune as the salty water started seeping over the outside deck of the Titanic..!

[RedNoodle]

Yes we've only lost two games, but we've dropped far too many points in far too many games to sides we should be routinely beating. Those dropped points and who they have been against are very reminiscent of a certain season under Rafa.

There are no prizes given out at the end of the league season for who lost the least number of games. Only for who amassed the most points.

[Insidious]

A win tomorrow is far from guaranteed.

Let’s not tempt fate... But please Sid - where do you get those happy pills...? I could use some.

Not that we are sinking in the North Atlantic BUT I get the impression you would have been still whistling a merry little tune as the salty water started seeping over the outside deck of the Titanic..!

It IS far from guaranteed, my head says dour draw, but a win is very possible against a low-scoring side. We have conceded 4 goals in 8 games I think - let's aim for a clean sheet again - from there you "only" need one goal. Our problems would be much bigger if we were regularly conceding 2 or 3 per game.

In terms of the happy pills.....been through some things I guess (who hasn't?) and over time I have learned to think of things roughly as follows -

"Can you do something about it? If yes, then you have agency over it, so why worry? If no, then it's totally beyond your control, so why worry?"

It isn't utterly universally applicable, but it applies to so many things. I also found (for me, I appreciate some circumstances are very difficult, like a Fibromyalgia sufferer let's say) that my personal positivity breeds more personal positivity and that's a good cycle, as the same is equally true the other way - when I get negative (often OCD triggers, often self-criticism) I can make myself sink further.

Also Rollerblading taught me a lot! Might sound strange, but when you experience intense physical pain (falling off handrails / down stairs HURTS) yet find inner strength to overcome pain and fear to achieve a goal and you're successful, it breeds a surprising amount of resilience. Same with the likes of Nature-watching. Waiting hours to see a particular Bird and finally being rewarded, or seeing Butterflies on a patch of Wasteland where you scattered seeds two years before or whatever just breeds that sense of a (healthy) level of control.

Don't want to rabbit on and derail the thread, but should you ever want to discuss cognition in Off-Topic or something I am game! I have my BAD bouts of depression and easily shattered self-belief I assure you, but each time I come through one it's just further evidence to my Brain of "well look, you muddled through, AGAIN, you're the Bomb" and that sets me up for further small victories, which in turn breed big ones. "I can't draw today, but I can sharpen my pencils so I am ready for the next time I am so inclined" kind of thing. It's a process - just like a Football team!

[Steveo]

Not derailing the thread at all mate.

Personally I love your descriptions of experiences - especially the outdoors, far more rewarding and fun than football is at the minute.

I envy your outlook. You have a wisdom that I cannot seem to find.

[CCTV]

Just wanted to add something, in terms of sides having a wobble, or worse, a capitulation.

There will be Twitterati out there bringing up Klopp's last season with Dortmund, 14/15 - and the fact that they were in the relegation zone.

What annoys me about that is that few will focus on the incredible turn-around that occurred in the second half of that season. They went from being a relegation zone side that year to nicking a Europa League spot at the Death.

People worry about us dropping out of the Top Four this year due to how competitive it is around us, coupled with our current malaise - and that's fine. But if we avoid defeat against Burnley, we will have lost two League games from our opening nineteen.

Klopp's 14/15 Dortmund had lost ELEVEN League matches by the 19-game mark.

If some of the footballing miracles of recent years of watching Liverpool aren't a source of comfort/inspiration for you right now, just look at turning around a season like that and what an accomplishment it was.

Win tomorrow and we have to fret about a 4-point deficit, whilst still having opportunities to play the rivals around us, thus putting (most of) our destiny into our own hands.

Agree largely, but Dortmund weren't Champions in 14/15 and it was at the end of an era.
Today, many years later, Liverpool are Champions and it's not the end of an era.

We do need to get back on track.

Out of interest do you know what the points per game drop was between his last 2 seasons there ?

We are currently 18 points worse off after 18 games than at this stage last season.

Last year for the season 99 points and 2.6ppg.
This year 34 points after 18 games, 1.88 ppg, on course for 71.77 points for the season.

[jr81]

Agree largely, but Dortmund weren't Champions in 14/15 and it was at the end of an era.
Today, many years later, Liverpool are Champions and it's not the end of an era.

We do need to get back on track.

Out of interest do you know what the points per game drop was between his last 2 seasons there ?

We are currently 18 points worse off after 18 games than at this stage last season.

Last year for the season 99 points and 2.6ppg.
This year 34 points after 18 games, 1.88 ppg, on course for 71.77 points for the season.

Also, Dortmund were not missing all of their senior centre backs. This has had a major impact on our setup and overall play.

Striker's win you games, defences win you leagues. I do believe losing the CBs and other injuries has had this impact on our season.
Our finishing is poor (missed a few against both wba and Newcastle) but it was the same last year. We always missed too many chances.

[Insidious]

We are currently 18 points worse off after 18 games than at this stage last season.

Last year for the season 99 points and 2.6ppg.
This year 34 points after 18 games, 1.88 ppg, on course for 71.77 points for the season.

I can appreciate that makes for damning reading, but they are two wildly different set of circumstances.

One side was fresh of the back of being burned by missing out on a League title by one point, having achieved the third highest total in history at the time, with incredible fortune with injuries and a jubilant fanbase in stadiums who finally had self-belief.

The other is a side that has made it and (they're human) will have finally had the "release" of getting a League title, playing without a crowd, dealing with an unprecedented injury list all whilst continuing the adjustment to their style of play while they further bed in to a possession-based game.

They're chalk and cheese. Plus, honestly, even if we had a "normal" set of circumstances this year, there was no way that ourselves and City were ever likely to maintain the frankly ridiculous level created by a financially doped super-squad that has had players with PED suspicions.

United won 13 League titles under Fergie and rarely did they hit the 90-point mark, never mind nearly 100 points. With a few decent sides in the League at present I think "normal" totals can be expected - sides winning the League with 80-85 points for example. Now, if we only hit 71 points or so that is definitely poor by our standards, but 71 compared to let's say 85 definitely showcases that, whilst there may be work to do, it's not quite as "impossible" as a nearly 30-point gap would be.

Let's get through tonight. We then have a nice neat grouping of 19 games (half a season) and we can dissect and analyse.

[jozza800]

Agree largely, but Dortmund weren't Champions in 14/15 and it was at the end of an era.
Today, many years later, Liverpool are Champions and it's not the end of an era.

We do need to get back on track.

Out of interest do you know what the points per game drop was between his last 2 seasons there ?

We are currently 18 points worse off after 18 games than at this stage last season.

Last year for the season 99 points and 2.6ppg.
This year 34 points after 18 games, 1.88 ppg, on course for 71.77 points for the season.

That's fair enough, but the last 2 or 3 League winning points haul has been like nothing we have seen previously. It's lunacy to think we'll achieve nearly 100pts every season.

80 pts might be enough to win the league this season.

[LEGS]

Agree largely, but Dortmund weren't Champions in 14/15 and it was at the end of an era.
Today, many years later, Liverpool are Champions and it's not the end of an era.

We do need to get back on track.

Out of interest do you know what the points per game drop was between his last 2 seasons there ?

We are currently 18 points worse off after 18 games than at this stage last season.

Last year for the season 99 points and 2.6ppg.
This year 34 points after 18 games, 1.88 ppg, on course for 71.77 points for the season.

Its not going to be a good season for us in the league it just has that feel.

Last season isnt the norm we did win 27 out of our 29 before lockdown so those 18 points difference although a fact is a one off.

Top four should be the aim and take it from there.

I think we will edge past Red Bull to make the QF and then anything can happen.

As I said earlier a lack of fans just makes it an asterisk for me its football still but not played under that pressure of fans who either spur you on or can sink you.

[CCTV]

That's fair enough, but the last 2 or 3 League winning points haul has been like nothing we have seen previously. It's lunacy to think we'll achieve nearly 100pts every season.

80 pts might be enough to win the league this season.

Chelsea 93 - Spurs 86
City 100 - Manu 81
City 98 - Lfc 97
LFC 99 - City 81

I'd agree it's likely this tears winner will finish on or around an 80+ points total

[CCTV]

Also, Dortmund were not missing all of their senior centre backs. This has had a major impact on our setup and overall play.

Striker's win you games, defences win you leagues. I do believe losing the CBs and other injuries has had this impact on our season.
Our finishing is poor (missed a few against both wba and Newcastle) but it was the same last year. We always missed too many chances.

This year it feels like we miss Virgil. The other 2 sadly have become expected absentees.

[CCTV]

I can appreciate that makes for damning reading, but they are two wildly different set of circumstances.

One side was fresh of the back of being burned by missing out on a League title by one point, having achieved the third highest total in history at the time, with incredible fortune with injuries and a jubilant fanbase in stadiums who finally had self-belief.

The other is a side that has made it and (they're human) will have finally had the "release" of getting a League title, playing without a crowd, dealing with an unprecedented injury list all whilst continuing the adjustment to their style of play while they further bed in to a possession-based game.

They're chalk and cheese. Plus, honestly, even if we had a "normal" set of circumstances this year, there was no way that ourselves and City were ever likely to maintain the frankly ridiculous level created by a financially doped super-squad that has had players with PED suspicions.

United won 13 League titles under Fergie and rarely did they hit the 90-point mark, never mind nearly 100 points. With a few decent sides in the League at present I think "normal" totals can be expected - sides winning the League with 80-85 points for example. Now, if we only hit 71 points or so that is definitely poor by our standards, but 71 compared to let's say 85 definitely showcases that, whilst there may be work to do, it's not quite as "impossible" as a nearly 30-point gap would be.

Let's get through tonight. We then have a nice neat grouping of 19 games (half a season) and we can dissect and analyse.

Dortmund finished on 71 points in 13/14 and on 46 points in 14/15.

City had fallen off the pace last year, continuing our high ppg wouldnt be a sustainable expectation.
We are presently below a trade top4 pace

Still think Klopp has enough tools to have gotten more points.

[Kev0909]

Klopps at the wheel

[dicko1969]

What part of 'stop being an FSG shill' don't you get?

They have just been talking about Fulham, yes FULHAM almost certainly going into the market to get another forward. Have they suddenly become immune to the effects of covid? Or is it possible, no matter how remote you may think it may be, that FSG are tight as **** and are/will use covid as yet another excuse (as they recently did - I posted elsewhere on this) as to why we/they won't be spending much, if any money, and are in fact "taking time when it comes to renewing contracts"?

You just don't get it
Because it doesn't change anything in your life.
Just a keyboard warrior with negative shitevto spout ;)

[Nineteenx]

Just stopped doing all the things that made us win so much, I've said it countless times that it was heading that way and relationships and automatic runs and balls played, more direct balls were disappearing, big job for Jurgen now, we've ripped our own house down over 3 months, not that simple to just go back to doing what we did that made us successful

[ianlfc]

Klopps first blip in 5 seasons after winning the league and champions league and heads are falling off.
We've the right manager to get us out of this , but there's no need to panic.

[Kev0909]

Klopps first blip in 5 seasons after winning the league and champions league and heads are falling off.
We've the right manager to get us out of this , but there's no need to panic.

Like he did at dortmund?

Not so sure, we'll see

[Insidious]

Klopps first blip in 5 seasons after winning the league and champions league and heads are falling off.

Somewhat reminiscent of 09/10 in terms of the fanbase, but social media is an even more prominent feature of our lives now.

Some Monster games coming up.

[Kev0909]

This run has been going on for ages now

and REALLY how many games have we been ourselves this season? 2-3??

it's not just happened it's been going on for a while slowly, and he's not managed to turn it around or change anything yet he's out of ideas

face the facts

[Steveo]

Just stopped doing all the things that made us win so much, I've said it countless times that it was heading that way and relationships and automatic runs and balls played, more direct balls were disappearing, big job for Jurgen now, we've ripped our own house down over 3 months, not that simple to just go back to doing what we did that made us successful

So stop saying it. It is mindfuckingly boring

[dicko1969]

Somewhat reminiscent of 09/10 in terms of the fanbase, but social media is an even more prominent feature of our lives now.

Some Monster games coming up.

Inevitable
4 or 5 year cycle
This team will need the knife.
And a transitional period.
I'm sure it will happen and take 18 months.
At the moment it is difficult to move on players quickly due to covid.
And the very top players are expensive and commanding ridiculous amounts of money.
So a catch22 situation.
But given a bit of time. It will get sorted.

[dicko1969]

This run has been going on for ages now

and REALLY how many games have we been ourselves this season? 2-3??

it's not just happened it's been going on for a while slowly, and he's not managed to turn it around or change anything yet he's out of ideas

face the facts

3 points from 15 in the league.
2 goals is it in 5 games ; scored.

[Steveo]

Klopps first blip in 5 seasons after winning the league and champions league and heads are falling off.
We've the right manager to get us out of this , but there's no need to panic.

I don’t put it on all on Klopp. He might not have been at his best and he does always use the same players game after game after game - even proffering to use midfielders in defence —- and then - boom - he changes half then team in one go... then back to the same players... but he could have been shielded from those “bills”

[dicko1969]

Just stopped doing all the things that made us win so much, I've said it countless times that it was heading that way and relationships and automatic runs and balls played, more direct balls were disappearing, big job for Jurgen now, we've ripped our own house down over 3 months, not that simple to just go back to doing what we did that made us successful
Where was Hendo tonight ?

[Kev0909]

How many games have we scraped by in recent history and not played great??

Now it's costing us because we've not picked it up and players aren't performing to get us out the mess (Forwards)

long time coming- if you look into it more you'll see what I mean.

[Steveo]

Where was Hendo tonight ?

Asking himself how he was so shite at Villa?

He has a slight “tweak”.. according to Jurgen

[RedNoodle]

You just don't get it
Because it doesn't change anything in your life.
Just a keyboard warrior with negative shitevto spout ;)

I understand things infinitely better than people like yourself who have your heads either buried in the sand so far you can see the Sydney Opera House, or so far up someone's backside you can see their tonsils.

You are blinkered to the realities of the world, where as people like me have been exposed to them from birth and either choose to/or have to live in the real world rather than some 'fantasy land' where everything/everyone is sweetness and light.

Unlike you I say exactly what I say on here to everyone else, be it online or face to face. You may be a 'coward', I however am I not. I have the courage of my convictions, even if you are like the majority of others and flip flop depending on the situation and/or what selfish motivations you may have at the time.

[Insidious]

it's not just happened it's been going on for a while slowly, and he's not managed to turn it around or change anything yet he's out of ideas

It has been happening for a while, but it hasn't been as bad as - what is it - 2 losses and 3 draws in our last 5 games or something?

We've been off-the-boil for a while sure, but still one of the better sides. Though you're right that it isn't great in this moment.

I think it might be less about running out of ideas and more about the core of the Squad having gone to War too many times and just not being able to find that extra gear - Real Madrid and Barca have arguably suffered similar.

Big challenges to come for them and for the General.

In terms of things the players can do, I'd place a bloody BAN on trying to cross the ball against sides with tall, physical centre-backs! It's infuriating how often we waste having that space out wide with these things.

[ianlfc]

Until we get our first choice centrebacks fit and Fabinho back into midfield with Hendo then things are never going to look like the Liverpool of last season.

[Kev0909]

Until we get our first choice centrebacks fit and Fabinho back into midfield with Hendo then things are never going to look like the Liverpool of last season.

But ian mate

Didn't you know, our resident manager says fabinho is awful in midfield and best suited to CB

!!!!!!

[Steveo]

Until we get our first choice centrebacks fit and Fabinho back into midfield with Hendo then things are never going to look like the Liverpool of last season.

Ian the Liverpool of before Christmas last season. It was the first half of the season that won us the title. The team at full strength looked to have run out of steam.

There is no point ignoring what happened after the Watford game.

We won it by sheer will. That isn’t enough to keep you winning it. Every season is different - rivals improve - injuries occur.

[ianlfc]

But ian mate

Didn't you know, our resident manager says fabinho is awful in midfield and best suited to CB

!!!!!!

He's always on the wind up .

[Kev0909]

He's always on the wind up .

I generally think he's just trolling at this point

[ianlfc]

Ian the Liverpool of before a Christmas last season. It was the first half of the season that won us the title. The team at full strength looked to have run out of steam.

Watford away the wheels came off. Ever since we've huffed and puffed .
Who knows what the rest of the season brings but getting Jota back is a must if we are to get anything this season.

[Steveo]

Watford away the wheels came off. Ever since we've huffed and puffed .
Who knows what the rest of the season brings but getting Jota back is a must if we are to get anything this season.

Anything could happen - we are at a crossroads. Next 3 or 4 games are crucial.

Sadly it’s more pressure we don’t need: people forget - Klopp sees them in training. And he has looked worried since before the Spurs game.... I still do not know how we won that game.

[Insidious]

Anything could happen - we are at a crossroads. Next 3 or 4 games are crucial.

They're very important, for sure.

Wouldn't take massive changes to improve on what we saw tonight.

First off, either tell Trent not to cross or don't play him. He is stinking the place up at present. I am sure this won't last forever as he has some tremendous qualities, but it isn't working right now.

Second, don't have Thiago sitting deeper than Wijnaldum for half a match! Thiago's vision should be closer to goal.

Those two things alone bring us up 5-10% and every little counts.

[RedNoodle]

Anything could happen - we are at a crossroads. Next 3 or 4 games are crucial.

Sadly it’s more pressure we don’t need: people forget - Klopp sees them in training. And he has looked worried since before the Spurs game.... I still do not know how we won that game.

Anything could happen, but based on recent evidence we aren't likely to pick up too many points in those games, which will effectively end our reign as league champions, and could ultimately end up costing us a place in the top four.

[Kev0909]

Gutted, Ings won't join us in the summer if we don't make the champions league

!!! straight swap for firmino i was hoping

** totally not sarcastic

[boom-klopp]

this is a strange season and the top two will drop points. they really aren’t that great.

it seems a pipe dream but a 6 game winning streak can make a massive difference. we can find ourselves top 2.

the players need a pick me up from the fans so whoever is on social media needs to send them support.

our great teams in the past used to be behind by large margins but put together runs to win by a couple of points.

NOTHING is impossible. not for this team.

it feels crap but come may/june we could be singing a different tune.

[Insidious]

it seems a pipe dream but a 6 game winning streak can make a massive difference.

Seems particularly true this season.

The media and ourselves could talk about City, United and Liverpool all season only for Leicester or Spurs or bloody Everton to have a say last minute.

We might lose 3 more matches in a row and have the lunatics ringing TalkSport to suggest Klopp's sacking. We might win 9 in a row from March to May with Firmino scoring a no-look finish to win a Champion's League semi-final.

Who bloody knows!?!?

Klopp and the lads need to find solutions and they need them soon - but I still believe if we can Weather this difficult patch, find more creative options in build-up as the likes of Thiago get settled and get Jota back, things will turn around a bit and we can set ourselves up for putting our best work in for the last 10-13 games.

[Insidious]

NOTHING is impossible. not for this team.

Never forget it folks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyKcOySz5_w

[Artisan]

Surely the bad luck /form can't continue, i mean yeh we're not playing fantasy football like we have but we are far from shit. We've made chances, had majority of possession in all games. How much longer can it go on that the ball doesn't goes in the fecking net???

Another note, totally pissed at our owners for not allowing Klopp to buy a defender to replace Virgil. If we had all of this may never have happened, they should have bloody listened.

[ianlfc]

Never forget it folks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyKcOySz5_w

Short memories some people.

[Nineteenx]

Surely the bad luck /form can't continue, i mean yeh we're not playing fantasy football like we have but we are far from shit. We've made chances, had majority of possession in all games. How much longer can it go on that the ball doesn't goes in the fecking net???

Another note, totally pissed at our owners for not allowing Klopp to buy a defender to replace Virgil. If we had all of this may never have happened, they should have bloody listened.

The VAR still would have happened, the club/owners very obviously royally pissed the Premier League, the FA and others off with their attempted power grab, it has definitely had a feel of "We play fair with you for the first time in 30 years and this is how you behave, well fuck you then"

I don't give a fuck what all the corruption and bias apologists say, the decisions that robbed us of deserved points weren't subjective or open to interpretation, except for the Newcastle goalkeeper holding Mane back by armlocking his leg incident

I get pissed off with the apologists, the state of UK society arrived where it is now through muppets like that accepting things they never should have and allowing them to become normalised

[Artisan]

The VAR still would have happened, the club/owners very obviously royally pissed the Premier League, the FA and others off with their attempted power grab, it has definitely had a feel of "We play fair with you for the first time in 30 years and this is how you behave, well fuck you then"

I don't give a fuck what all the corruption and bias apologists say, the decisions that robbed us of deserved points weren't subjective or open to interpretation, except for the Newcastle goalkeeper holding Mane back by armlocking his leg incident

I get pissed off with the apologists, the state of UK society arrived where it is now through muppets like that accepting things they never should have and allowing them to become normalised

I'm not gonna argue with anything against VAR, its corrupt as shit and also the catalyst of our form and unpunished injury list. Corruption is corruption to me.

[Steveo]

Tuchel to be unveiled as Chelsea boss - rumours growing


From the Guardian

“ Chelsea are set to sack Frank Lampard with the former Borussia Dortmund and PSG manager Thomas Tuchel to replace the former Chelsea player at Stamford Bridge.”

And

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/55793101


I worry that this will project them further towards becoming a force.

Not that Tuchel is amazing but surely way ahead of Frank? Surely Werner can only improve now



EDIT: Lampard SACKED..!!

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2021/01/25/statement-on-frank-lampard


"Chelsea Football Club have today parted company with Head Coach Frank Lampard.

This has been a very difficult decision, and not one that the owner and the Board have taken lightly.

We are grateful to Frank for what he has achieved in his time as Head Coach of the Club. However, recent results and performances have not met the Club’s expectations, leaving the Club mid-table without any clear path to sustained improvement."

[TheDOC1979]

Tuchel to be unveiled as Chelsea boss - rumours growing


From the Guardian

“ Chelsea are set to sack Frank Lampard with the former Borussia Dortmund and PSG manager Thomas Tuchel to replace the former Chelsea player at Stamford Bridge.”

And

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/55793101


I worry that this will project them further towards becoming a force.

Not that Tuchel is amazing but surely way ahead of Frank? Surely Werner can only improve now



EDIT: Lampard SACKED..!!

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2021/01/25/statement-on-frank-lampard


"Chelsea Football Club have today parted company with Head Coach Frank Lampard.

This has been a very difficult decision, and not one that the owner and the Board have taken lightly.

We are grateful to Frank for what he has achieved in his time as Head Coach of the Club. However, recent results and performances have not met the Club’s expectations, leaving the Club mid-table without any clear path to sustained improvement."

Klopp mind games worked. Shame he can’t work his mind games on our team to win games and put a decent performance in

[Kev0909]

Ohhh shit chelsea might actually be decent in the future now

[Steveo]

Klopp mind games worked. Shame he can’t work his mind games on our team to win games and put a decent performance in


Personally I cannot blame Klopp OR any of the players. What have they done wrong? They have given their sodding all over the last 2-3 seasons and we won a title and a 6th CL -- came close to wining 2 titles and a 7th CL!!!

[TheDOC1979]

Personally I cannot blame Klopp OR any of the players. What have they done wrong? They have given their sodding all over the last 2-3 seasons and we won a title and a 6th CL -- came close to wining 2 titles and a 7th CL!!!

So who are you going to blame?

What do you mean what have they done wrong? Are you not watching the games? Players and managers out of ideas.

What kind of stinking attitude is that? Yeah give our all for a couple of seasons and call it quits because we’re playing two games a week. Give it a rest mate, it’s abhorrent that anyone would take that attitude. Instead of kicking on and cementing our position, in the elites, we’re happy with 2 great seasons.

We’re Liverpool, not a fucking Newcastle where we are happy we didn’t lose or we managed to score a goal after a defeat. You’re the type that’s happy to wait another 30 years of competing at the top level where others build and get better.

[Steveo]

Asleep at the wheel owners. Won't give the manager who has proved beyond all doubt what he can achieve - even using pretty standard players - look at the improvement in the likes of Lallana and how Henderson grew...

Look at the level up when we buy elite..? Virgil - Alisson etc. All payed for by sales...WHY WHY WHY leave us threadbare at the back..? Matip - Is half a horse yet counted as a senior CB when he won't play 1.4 of the season despite a double injury to the only 2 genuine senior CB's at the club.. it is madness to defend this.

All the while we keep hold of Keita - never fit - the OX - barely played - ditto Shaq... why... cause they won't get any PROFIT from any sale..!!

It's a stinkingly bad joke.

[TheDOC1979]

Asleep at the wheel owners. Won't give the manager who has proved beyond all doubt what he can achieve - even using pretty standard players - look at the improvement in the likes of Lallana and how Henderson grew...

Look at the level up when we buy elite..? Virgil - Alisson etc. All payed for by sales...WHY WHY WHY leave us threadbare at the back..? Matip - Is half a horse yet counted as a senior CB when he won't play 1.4 of the season despite a double injury to the only 2 genuine senior CB's at the club.. it is madness to defend this.

All the while we keep hold of Keita - never fit - the OX - barely played - ditto Shaq... why... cause they won't get any PROFIT from any sale..!!

It's a stinkingly bad joke.

Klopp has the ability to pull the strings. His value is irreplaceable, if he does speak up and the owners want rid, only then can I pass blame on them.

Currently, I can’t see where the owners are to blame. The manager has to manage and speak up. Change tac rather than stick to the same things where others teams have generally sussed us out

[Steveo]

If he speaks up to the press it's over.. come on - we all know how this works.

[teesred]

He has spoken up, thats how I read his comments last week anyway.
Hard to disagree with changing tactics, we have been sussed out but is that due to losing Virgil and not playing how we want to?
Either way it was a gamble not replacing Lovren and relying on Matip if in the unlikely event we lost both CBs. The gamble hasn't paid off and here we are in danger of the season going south very quickly.
They might be regretting their stance at the end of the season.

[Steveo]

He signed a contract - doesn't give him licence to start winging publicly now. It is as clear as day that he wanted players in 2019 and just as clear he wanted cover this January - he has even started speaking in code - being as vocal as possible without spelling things out.

Is anyone honestly suggesting that he has all the players he wants and needs to remain at the top?

Anyone think he actually said - fine yea sell Lovren - I can take Fabinho out of the midfield because I am stocked with fit players in Oxlade, Keita and pensioner Milner - if I need to..? He is working within huge constraints - the kind of constraints you can accept when you are not the Champions and recent Champions of Europe. Can't sell Keita - can't sell the Ox cause he is English and we can't buy another English midfielder cause they are just too pricey? Can't replace Lovren - then can't add cover even after 2 CB are out all season..

WTF is going on - Are we Southampton?

[Steveo]

Would bet you my left pelota Hendo is injured from playing out of position just as Fab did earlier on this season.

[TheDOC1979]

If he speaks up to the press it's over.. come on - we all know how this works.

Not with what he brings to the table.

Again, if it’s over, then the blame is on FSG

[Balinkay]

If he speaks up to the press it's over.. come on - we all know how this works.

For whom? If he leaves, he'll go to someone like Real or Barcelona. Germany at worst. It's not over for Klopp, it's over for us! :D

[Steveo]

True - but he loves this club. He loves the fans - this is also as clear as can be.

Just give him some sodding dough and tell him if it doesn’t work - we tried

[LEGS]

For whom? If he leaves, he'll go to someone like Real or Barcelona. Germany at worst. It's not over for Klopp, it's over for us! :D

Exactly he could take his pick.

Germany national team migt be an option soon too as the manager they have now seems to have been their manager for decades.

[TheDOC1979]

One quality signing in January can change our fortunes around.

[Kev0909]

For whom? If he leaves, he'll go to someone like Real or Barcelona. Germany at worst. It's not over for Klopp, it's over for us! :D

FSG would need to leave too

Klopp is perfect for them due to budget restrictions he's done it in the past....

without him... and without money compared to chelsea utd city even fkin everton and others

Down down, down you go

[LEGS]

My biggest worry is come June/July is that FSG say we cant sign "insert name" as we didnt qualify for the CL.

That is not a valid excuse they need to hope this gamble works and we finish 4th im not confident we will do though.

[Balinkay]

You're right to an extent LEGS, but imagine we did sign someone and then failed to get CL. And that someone like Özil. Look at the resource drain he's been on Arsenal for years now!

It's a fine balancing act.

[LEGS]

You're right to an extent LEGS, but imagine we did sign someone and then failed to get CL. And that someone like Özil. Look at the resource drain he's been on Arsenal for years now!

It's a fine balancing act.

Im thinking more of a loan less risk attached.

Its unfair to ask kids who arent ready for it.

[teesred]

My biggest worry is come June/July is that FSG say we cant sign "insert name" as we didnt qualify for the CL.

That is not a valid excuse they need to hope this gamble works and we finish 4th im not confident we will do though.

If that's what happens it 100% on them. No getting away from it.

[skyebo]

BBC sport has put out a ratings poll for each players performances for the season, voted by the public from each game. 1. Jota 2. Mane 3. Alisson. Criteria was players had to play at least 6 games to be included. Shows how well we are doing when a player who has been injured, and still is can top the poll.

[Insidious]

You're right to an extent LEGS, but imagine we did sign someone and then failed to get CL. And that someone like Özil. Look at the resource drain he's been on Arsenal for years now!

It's a fine balancing act.

That is where I am on it as well - a loan would be ideal but I'm not sure if there are complications with Home-grown quota and squad numbers etc - if we bring someone in I think we have to remove someone from the registration - theoretically we could de-register Van Dijk or Gomez but I think we have kept them registered as a source of motivation that if (huge if) they came back and were fit they could play a game or two.

I suspect (I might be reaching here) that the Origi over Minamino picks have maybe been with a view to Origi getting a goal that makes someone take him on loan and we can then use his squad place to register someone.

That's pretty speculative though. But I don't think it's tinfoil hat stuff either.

[LEGS]

Sid you are correct we need to move a foreign player to sign for us.

Origi has moved in front of Minamino in the pecking order imo.

Adrian is most at risk to be un registered but not sure Klopp will do that to him.

[Joetan991]

We have lots of injury this season, playing CM as CD most of the time, playing youth players.

And we only 2-3 points of the top. Injured players will be back, we will be back.

[LFC-DPG]

We have lots of injury this season, playing CM as CD most of the time, playing youth players.

And we only 2-3 points of the top. Injured players will be back, we will be back.

What table are you looking at?

If City win their game in hand we will be 7 points off top and if (big if) Everton, Spurs and Villa win their games in hand we will be 7th in the league.

We will be back and will play better than we have since Christmas but I still think it will be a tough fight for a top 4 place unless FSG back the manager.

[Joetan991]

What table are you looking at?

If City win their game in hand we will be 7 points off top and if (big if) Everton, Spurs and Villa win their games in hand we will be 7th in the league.

We will be back and will play better than we have since Christmas but I still think it will be a tough fight for a top 4 place unless FSG back the manager.

I think every team also will have their ''down'' period, I do not think Man City and Man United (not a thread ) can maintain their winning run.

[RedNoodle]

Others dropping a few points here and there will count for naught as we currently cannot win a solitary game, never mind stringing a few wins together.