Your team v the filthy FA Cup

[Nineteenx]

For me ditch the one paced tappy tappy Wegeresque crap, play as near our best 11 being more direct as well as trying to play through as it's our best chance of rekindling doing the things that made us Champions and getting the long term relationships between those players working again

Be more direct, win second balls from switches and longer balls and create from there, try to play through also, but don't overplay if the ball's on to any of the other forwards 1v1 play it, don't play it wide and let opposition players get back and ser


Alisson

Trent Matip Fabinho Robertson

Thiago Henderson Wijnaldum

Salah Firmino Mane

Remember what made you winners, be aggressive, be direct, do everything quickly, go out there and bum the filthy

[ianlfc]

Alisson

Trent Matip Philips/Williams Robertson

Henderson Fabinho Wijnaldum

Salah Firmino Mane

[Kev0909]

Think i'll watch eastenders on catchup instead or something

[miller0863]

I really don’t care

[LEGS]

We are going to lose this match.

I'll be honest im just hoping City now go on a monster winning streak apart from when they play us.

CL is our best chance this season people might think im mad but it is.

[justme]

I really don’t care

Same here

[Nineteenx]

We'll start bumming teams again soon enough if we go back to doing what made us great and stop trying to play like UAE FC were last season and the season before

I've watched UAE FC a few times this season and they're trying to be more like we were, playing longer, bacon face tryin those Hendo switches and attempted balls over the top a lot and generally being a lot more direct and not overplaying, whereas Hendo looks like he's been told to stop playing them and persist wit the crappy tappy overplaying

[Nineteenx]

I'l be honest, i've enjoyed watching UAE FC as it's been like watching us the past 2 seasons in a season we've abandoned doing those things for whatever ridiculous reason

[justme]

We'll start bumming teams again soon enough if we go back to doing what made us great and stop trying to play like UAE FC were last season and the season before

I've watched UAE FC a few times this season and they're trying to be more like we were, playing longer, bacon face tryin those Hendo switches and attempted balls over the top a lot and generally being a lot more direct and not overplaying, whereas Hendo looks like he's been told to stop playing them and persist wit the crappy tappy overplaying

We won't we look flat.

[skyebo]

We'll start bumming teams again soon enough if we go back to doing what made us great and stop trying to play like UAE FC were last season and the season before

I've watched UAE FC a few times this season and they're trying to be more like we were, playing longer, bacon face tryin those Hendo switches and attempted balls over the top a lot and generally being a lot more direct and not overplaying, whereas Hendo looks like he's been told to stop playing them and persist wit the crappy tappy overplaying

Why would De Bruyne want to copy what Henderson does ? Have a look at his assists and scoring record since he signed for City. And Henderson tried a few of those passes against Man Utd, i think one of them found a team mate.

[RedNoodle]

I really don’t care

Ditto.

[Nineteenx]

Why would De Bruyne want to copy what Henderson does ? Have a look at his assists and scoring record since he signed for City. And Henderson tried a few of those passes against Man Utd, i think one of them found a team mate.

Watch some UAE FC games he's trying lots of them as well as the things he can do far better when more advanced, they've made a huge shift to mixing things up annd being more direct and not overplaying this season

[CCTV]

Play the kids and lesser spotted first teamers.

[CCTV]

Watch some UAE FC games he's trying lots of them as well as the things he can do far better when more advanced, they've made a huge shift to mixing things up annd being more direct and not overplaying this season

If they are playing more like us, with quality players and without massive injuries.
Why is their points tally comparatively so low ?

[CCTV]

I'd tell many of the first teamers to stay at home tomorrow and rest up. You'll not be playing in the fa cup and prepare for spurs.

[reddownunder]

Kelleher
Neco Rhys Phillips Milner
Ox Clarkson Jones
Salah Origi Minamino

[Nineteenx]

Personally i think we need a performance, we need to try and invoke that collective belif, determination, understanding and muscle memory if you like by playing as many of our best 11 from last seasons purple patch in as many games as possible to try and get all those time forged relationships, know how and undestandings of what each other will be doing, where they'll be making their runs and movement and when and where they want the ball that was so finely tuned and honed before we fucked about with it and try to play as we were playing then with the additional midfield creativvity of Thiago thrown into the mix to try and let our ability to play through teams develop more naturally over time while retaining our prowess in our direct game

Which for me is what we should have donne in the fucking first place rather than try and force trying to play through tams and cast aside everything we've uilt up over the past 3 seasons

We should have started that process last night

[LEGS]

Kelleher
Neco Rhys Phillips Milner
Ox Clarkson Jones
Salah Origi Minamino

Playing Salah in that team is like playing Jota in Denmark !

In other words no point as that team is getting hammered

[Kev0909]

Playing Salah in that team is like playing Jora in Denmark !

In other words no point as that team is getting hammered

Maybe ox on the right??

no point playing shaqiri as he's the only one that looks half decent lately, we'd be loving origi if he scored that chance the other day, been a while since we've had a proper 1v1 v the goalie... reminded me of the torres days always got himself into them situations and scored.

[LEGS]

Maybe ox on the right??

no point playing shaqiri as he's the only one that looks half decent lately, we'd be loving origi if he scored that chance the other day, been a while since we've had a proper 1v1 v the goalie... reminded me of the torres days always got himself into them situations and scored.

I’m seeing it as a luxury game I have no confidence we will beat them.

I guess they may not go full strength either but I expect they will beat us.

No way will Klopp put the above side out Lawro and Hansen are quicker !

[Kev0909]

Sod it won't happen and I don't think we should play these players really, but in the case of trying something new what i'd like to see sometime

Alisson

Neco Matip Fabinho/phillips Robertson

Thiago/fab Henderson/Milner

Firmino /ox/keita/Minimianooooio (aka the next messi)

Salah Origi/jota when fit Mane

** I don't think henderson will start or be risked after a "slight muscle strain" -(over-use no doubt)

this line-up against the "weaker sides" 4-2-1-3 rafa style

thiago in the alonso role, milner/henderson/fabinho doing the donkey work change the tactics up completly other option is dropping the AMC for another midfielder for more stability against better teams.

we do have the players to try something different and change tac, but seems like we're incapable and keep hoping for the best we need a plan B, and this is mine

[Nineteenx]

I’m seeing it as a luxury game I have no confidence we will beat them.

I guess they may not go full strength either but I expect they will beat us.

No way will Klopp put the above side out Lawro and Hansen are quicker !

They'll go full strength, they rested players v Fulham by not starting them or subbing them

[Kev0909]

They'll go full strength, they rested players v Fulham by not starting them or subbing them

Even ole knows city will probably win the league, probably best chance they have to win something is the fa cup

[LEGS]

They'll go full strength, they rested players v Fulham by not starting them or subbing them

They left out Rashford only really.

[eggy81]

Full strength and all out to win this game and the cup. Nice relief from the league shit.

[Nineteenx]

Full strength and all out to win this game and the cup. Nice relief from the league shit.

Totally agree, Kelleher 'should' play as it's a cup game but i'd put Big Bear in for this one

[Nineteenx]

They left out Rashford only really.

And McTominey and Lindelof and rested Fred and Martial with their subs

[LEGS]

And McTominey and Lindelof and rested Fred and Martial with their subs

Well G.Nev was saying the other day Bailly is better than Lindelof so do lots of United fans.

He left out McTominey yes but he did that to get an extra attacker on Greenwood/Cavani as he knew Fulham would sit back.

At this moment in time they have a better squad to choose from i’d even take Phil Jones on loan !!

[Kev0909]

Well G.Nev was saying the other day Bailly is better than Lindelof so do lots of United fans.

He left out McTominey yes but he did that to get an extra attacker on Greenwood/Cavani as he knew Fulham would sit back.

At this moment in time they have a better squad to choose from i’d even take Phil Jones on loan !!

It's what I don't understand there is players out there, that would improve us and not cost the world, some steals are being done so far

[LEGS]

It's what I don't understand there is players out there, that would improve us and not cost the world, some steals are being done so far

Diop at West Ham is the obvious one if true.

We just need to un register VVD.

I’m starting to think we are really skint as there is no evidence we are looking to get anyone in.

At least we won the league but even that feels unsatisfying with no crowd or parade.

[Steveo]

Skint...? After record profits, Champions League winners - League title winners - gigantic Nike ( I fucking hate them ) ... and people still struggling to see the gigantic big fat elephant in the room...?

[Kev0909]

Skint...? After record profits, Champions League winners - League title winners - gigantic Nike ( I fucking hate them ) ... and people still struggling to see the gigantic big fat elephant in the room...?

Starting to think if thiago set us back that much money wise, we should of spent it on what was really needed but it's all hindsight after the injury's I guess

[LEGS]

Skint...? After record profits, Champions League winners - League title winners - gigantic Nike ( I fucking hate them ) ... and people still struggling to see the gigantic big fat elephant in the room...?

Skint as in the money we generate has gone we have lost £100m and counting.

FSG won’t put their own money in we have known that from day one it is what it is.

Football is a now a business not a game anymore.

[Steveo]

Skint as in the money we generate has gone we have lost £100m and counting.

FSG won’t put their own money in we have known that from day one it is what it is.

Football is a now a business not a game anymore.

We have lost £100 million . How do you know that..? How much have Spurs - United - Arsenal or any of the other 10 sides who have all out spent us lost..?

If football is a business and we have won more than any of these sides in recent years then how come they can spend but we can’t, sounds like our business is shite.!


We needed cover up top and at the back and we needed it a while ago - if we can’t go out and justpay what is needed after winning what we have - then we never will. Sell 2 buy shite STILL even after Klopp’s miracles.

Seriously some seem to think Covid only effects Liverpool FC.

Come on - time stop making excuses.

[jozza800]

Starting to think if thiago set us back that much money wise, we should of spent it on what was really needed but it's all hindsight after the injury's I guess

People were crying out for a classy ball playing midfielder and we went and got one.

People said we needed competiton for the front 3 and we went and got one.

We needed cover for LB and we went and got one.

If Klopp thought that Fab was enough as 4th choice CB then letting big Lov go was the right decision.

[Steveo]

We needed a Thiago years ago. Klopp built a system designed to work without one - the transition isn’t easy. He has known that midfield was sub standard for years hence Keita - Ox - Shaq.... it’s tough for Thiago now though Especially when you don’t have a defence worthy of the name and a front line that cannot score a goal.

People forget Hendo was shocking before Virgil arrived and Robbo came into the team with Trent on the opposite flank. Emre bleedin Can was a far better player - but he went for free to Turin - bad move all over. We have had a workman like middle ever since - utterly dependent the rock at the back and on two bombing & crossing full backs supplying that front line.

The moment one of those key factors is missing you see the glaring deficiency. Klopp himself - who ain't the best at building a midfield - spotted this a while back and has been on a quest to rectify it. You cannot dominate for long relying so heavily on the same group all being fit at the same time. you need other ways to play and other ways to win. You need to control games more - not just possession but controlled play.

The team is not broken as some have mentioned BUT it needs some surgery. That surgery isn't going to happen unless some funds are released BEFORE more players are lost!

[Kev0909]

People were crying out for a classy ball playing midfielder and we went and got one.

People said we needed competiton for the front 3 and we went and got one.

We needed cover for LB and we went and got one.

If Klopp thought that Fab was enough as 4th choice CB then letting big Lov go was the right decision.

True mate

but we won the league and came very close without him, the midfield has been very average but they all worked very well together which made up for it.

Personally think we'll get a CB in the summer even with VVD and gomez back and put fabinho back in midfield I hope

[LEGS]

We have lost £100 million . How do you know that..? How much have Spurs - United - Arsenal or any of the other 10 sides who have all out spent us lost..?

If football is a business and we have won more than any of these sides in recent years then how come they can spend but we can’t, sounds like our business is shite.!


We needed cover up top and at the back and we needed it a while ago - if we can’t go out and justpay what is needed after winning what we have - then we never will. Sell 2 buy shite STILL even after Klopp’s miracles.

Seriously some seem to think Covid only effects Liverpool FC.

Come on - time stop making excuses.

Because you work out how many games at Anfield have been BCD and no hospitality packages it is around £100m in revenue lost.

Man Utd have lost more money than us on the gate but they do generate more than us via sponsorships.

Arsenal/Spurs have both taken £100m bank loans, is that wise ?

Who exactly have Arsenal/Spurs signed ?? Arsenal are in the bargain bucket loaning anyone they can get there hands on.

EVERY club has lost money it doesn’t take brains to work that out my point is we MIGHT be skint I don’t know if we are, but how do you know we aren’t skint ?

[Insidious]

We have lost £100 million . How do you know that..? How much have Spurs - United - Arsenal or any of the other 10 sides who have all out spent us lost..?

If football is a business and we have won more than any of these sides in recent years then how come they can spend but we can’t, sounds like our business is shite.!

I've spoken at length about FSG before, but you brought up other clubs and their apparent ability to spend, so I'll briefly touch on it.

Willingness to be in debt is part of that. FSG have been very consistent in wanting the club to be pretty self-sustainable.

Spurs for example are over £600m in debt at present I believe.

Kroenke (Arsenal) is borrowing money to help pay off a £260m debt that Arsenal owe - I think £145m or so of that has been paid off, but that was in the form of a loan, which Kroenke paid back.....by borrowing.....

United have a NET debt of over £470m. Not sure what the more "raw" figure is as my understanding of economics is very limited. They're a revenue-generating machine in "normal" circumstances due to their business management in the advent of the Premier League, combined with subsequent sustained success and commerical deals abroad - an area we are only really catching up to over the last few years. So they have been badly hit, but badly hit from a head-start, if you will. So they are harder to read.

But the short answer is that other clubs are currently more willing to put their club's future at risk for the sake of short-term gains. This strategy may bear fruit for those clubs over the next 3-10 years, or it may utterly wreck them - the fact of the matter is that we simply aren't going to know for a while yet. Spurs for example could be in a LOT of trouble if they were to miss out on Champion's League qualification a couple of seasons in a row.

[Nineteenx]

True mate

but we won the league and came very close without him, the midfield has been very average but they all worked very well together which made up for it.

Personally think we'll get a CB in the summer even with VVD and gomez back and put fabinho back in midfield I hope

Supporting that high line, our press and counter press our forwards and our full backs playing as high as they have to bring us that success is now average? One of them was so average he was voted poty, give over

[Nineteenx]

Why are people talking like this isn't a situation of our own making and having a pop at players who have been absolutely brilliant these last 3 years and given us everything?

We've done this to ourselves, it's not fantasy manager or rocket science, if you keep tinkering and fucking about with what you have that does work brilliantly in the absence of a couple of players you fuck yourself up

[Steveo]

Because you work out how many games at Anfield have been BCD and no hospitality packages it is around £100m in revenue lost.

Man Utd have lost more money than us on the gate but they do generate more than us via sponsorships.

Arsenal/Spurs have both taken £100m bank loans, is that wise ?

Who exactly have Arsenal/Spurs signed ?? Arsenal are in the bargain bucket loaning anyone they can get there hands on.

EVERY club has lost money it doesn’t take brains to work that out my point is we MIGHT be skint I don’t know if we are, but how do you know we aren’t skint ?

So again its' an equal footing is it - let's compare with notoriously poor spending Spurs...?

Spurs - who have won nowt and just spent £1 Billion on the stadium but still:
Summer 2020 Spent £59.76m, Sold £11.97m = +£48 million
Summer 2019 Spent £102 m, Sold £31 m = +£71 million

Net spend since CL final = +£119 million

Liverpool FC - Who have won the CL and the title and have a record sponsorship deal: Spent £50 million on Kirkby minus Melwood's undisc amount:
Summer 2020 Spent £76.7m, Sold £37.71m = + £39 million
Summer 2019 Spent £1,7m, Sold £27.55m = - £29.25 million

Net spend since CL final = +£10 million

[Insidious]

There are things to bear in mind there with Net spend Steveo.

Wage increases for one, agent fees for said negotiations another.

As for those who spend more than us, they often do so because they bought rubbish and thus then have to go out and invest again to replace said rubbish - we have (largely, not 100%) been getting transfers right - it's another contributing factor.

[Steveo]

Sid - I didn't bring it up - Klopp brought it up in 2019... All you have to do is look at his quote.

“This year is not the end of Liverpool FC,” Klopp was quoted in The Telegraph . “Next year there will be another transfer window. This team is really good and we have invested a lot in it. Now we have to work with that.

“I can’t say anything about what other teams are doing. I don’t know how they do it. We have to pay bills. Sorry. Everybody has to pay bills; we have to pay bills.

“We invested money in this team. Now it looks like we are not. But we are not in this fantasia land where you just get whatever you want. You cannot do it constantly."

2019 Sid - summer 2019.

I feel like you would defend their spend strategy no matter what evidence was put before you. The lack of spending at the crucial time has hampered us - Slowed Klopp's ability to build a winning side and then compounded the issue when not loosening those strings after number 6.. It doesn't mean they should be binned but just that they should feel some pressure to match the ambition of the fans

[Insidious]

I get that.

I also we might misunderstand each other on that second emboldened bit. I believe you're taking that (correct me if I'm wrong please) as him saying "now it looks like we won't be spending" whereas I very much read it at the time as "it LOOKS LIKE we're not spending" ie to the outside eye, because the spend ("bills" paid) was on the tying down of players that would normally be snatched from us by Real Madrid/Barcelona etc.

[Steveo]

I get that.

I also we might misunderstand each other on that second emboldened bit. I believe you're taking that (correct me if I'm wrong please) as him saying "now it looks like we won't be spending" whereas I very much read it at the time as "it LOOKS LIKE we're not spending" ie to the outside eye, because the spend ("bills" paid) was on the tying down of players that would normally be snatched from us by Real Madrid/Barcelona etc.

He is a master manager HE knows full well he CANNOT make ANY overt reference towards a lack of spending power - but it is in there still.. It would send a message to the squad - you are not enough - we need more. That is not the message to send if you aim to make good on 97 points and a lost title...

Management is so much about the mind - See Shanks or Whiskey nose - confidence is the biggest factor so often BUT at some point it isn't enough...you just need more tools

[Insidious]

We do need an addition or two, but we need to get back to putting the ball into the back of the net first.

We're dominating sides in the possession stakes, we're creating more chances (though too many are poor chances rather than gilt-edged) and we don't concede many goals. We aren't getting penned in by opposition sides who run rings around us, so as rubbish as the current "funk" is, there aren't 50 problems needing fixing, thankfully.

There's a £60m Anfield Road expansion project around the corner that will generate further match revenue each season for the rest of forever (once fans can come back, fingers crossed) and we probably don't have a lot of wiggle-room right now with the combo of squad size, home-grown v foreign, availability etc. and I like to think we wouldn't eat into that for the sake of an over-priced centre-back given how well our defence is managing and it's only for a few months.

I think we'll know more in the Summer.

[CCTV]

There are things to bear in mind there with Net spend Steveo.

Wage increases for one, agent fees for said negotiations another.

As for those who spend more than us, they often do so because they bought rubbish and thus then have to go out and invest again to replace said rubbish - we have (largely, not 100%) been getting transfers right - it's another contributing factor.

What have wages got to do with net spend ?

As wages have gone up, revenue growth has risen well above those wages.
As wages have gone up, we have had more disposable income available.

It's been a net gain to the club's accounts.

I believe James No Deal Pearce was at it again last summer, using this wages meme to explain why we wouldn't be signing anyone, specifically Thiago.
Then we signed him and Jota.

Then people fall back into the same traps of we have no money to spend as good journos like James No Deal No Thiago Pearce say so.

[Insidious]

What have wages got to do with net spend ?

Not a whole lot - I was pointing towards the fact that people will point to net spend (transfer fees) and suggest money has been saved or not spent respectively, whilst not bearing in mind that a player paid, say £50k per week may have left at one stage, but a £100k per week player may have come in, whose contract goes up to £180k per week - which won't be shown in the context of transfers in/out, much like agent fees.

[LEGS]

So again its' an equal footing is it - let's compare with notoriously poor spending Spurs...?

Spurs - who have won nowt and just spent £1 Billion on the stadium but still:
Summer 2020 Spent £59.76m, Sold £11.97m = +£48 million
Summer 2019 Spent £102 m, Sold £31 m = +£71 million

Net spend since CL final = +£119 million

Liverpool FC - Who have won the CL and the title and have a record sponsorship deal: Spent £50 million on Kirkby minus Melwood's undisc amount:
Summer 2020 Spent £76.7m, Sold £37.71m = + £39 million
Summer 2019 Spent £1,7m, Sold £27.55m = - £29.25 million

Net spend since CL final = +£10 million

I didnt compare us to Spurs I added Arsenal and United like you did.

Yeah your stats are true but means nowt as they spent a fortune on Bale who has done jack shit.

United have spent way more but it means noyhinh if you have a crap manager and sign the wrong players.

Not included City/Chelsea as they arent ran the same way.

I cant comment on our accounts as I dont have them in front of me, but I do know Spurs/Arsenal took a bank loan out why if they are so rich ??

[CCTV]

Not a whole lot - I was pointing towards the fact that people will point to net spend (transfer fees) and suggest money has been saved or not spent respectively, whilst not bearing in mind that a player paid, say £50k per week may have left at one stage, but a £100k per week player may have come in, whose contract goes up to £180k per week - which won't be shown in the context of transfers in/out, much like agent fees.

The net spend is significantly down per season on the days of Rodgers.

Under Klopp revenue has grown in excess of expenses(mostly wages) too

So the spending on transfers in net spend terms is down.
Revenue has outgrown expenses under Klopp
The club is posting decent profits

I do find it bemusing how people bring up counterpoints like wages and yet seem incapable of dealing with revenue growth exceeding expenditure growth.

[CCTV]

I didnt compare us to Spurs I added Arsenal and United like you did.

Yeah your stats are true but means nowt as they spent a fortune on Bale who has done jack shit.

United have spent way more but it means noyhinh if you have a crap manager and sign the wrong players.

Not included City/Chelsea as they arent ran the same way.

I cant comment on our accounts as I dont have them in front of me, but I do know Spurs/Arsenal took a bank loan out why if they are so rich ??

Loans - a complex area but I believe at the minute interest rates are at a very low rate, so you can access credit at next to no cost.

For big business I believe that loans/debt isn't too important, more about income and ability to service those debts.

A decision to not take on a loan/debt to bolster the squad and the low or no interest cost of it, would be minuscule to the risk of dropping out of next season's CL.

I know a person who had cash up front for a new car-jeep, got the car on hire purchase at zero interest.
Essentially paying off the car in installments at no extra cost to cash up front.
Why pay cash when you can get free credit?

[Insidious]

The net spend is significantly down per season on the days of Rodgers.

Under Klopp revenue has grown in excess of expenses(mostly wages) too

So the spending on transfers in net spend terms is down.
Revenue has outgrown expenses under Klopp
The club is posting decent profits

I do find it bemusing how people bring up counterpoints like wages and yet seem incapable of dealing with revenue growth exceeding expenditure growth.

Fair enough - some of this is off-set by unseen agent fees, the cost of a Pandemic (United for example have lost £129m and counting) and the fact we have "ear-marked" money that we won't want to eat into, such as the £60m for the next stage of the stadium's development, or "main" Summer targets that we may have consciously decide we don't want to overspend on by £15m as a result of buying them in January (what would Upamecano cost in Jan, £55m?) rather than waiting 5 months or so.

The next set(s) of financial accounts will be interesting anyway.

[TorresGoalGoal]

Keep playing the strongest team until the fans are happy to see them go. It’s very close now.

[skyebo]

Fair enough - some of this is off-set by unseen agent fees, the cost of a Pandemic (United for example have lost £129m and counting) and the fact we have "ear-marked" money that we won't want to eat into, such as the £60m for the next stage of the stadium's development, or "main" Summer targets that we may have consciously decide we don't want to overspend on by £15m as a result of buying them in January (what would Upamecano cost in Jan, £55m?) rather than waiting 5 months or so.

The next set(s) of financial accounts will be interesting anyway.

Your last line Sid, can anyone see those ?

[Insidious]

Your last line Sid, can anyone see those ?

They're always published, aye.

But you always get information "late" as it were, so there is always an element of guess-work when trying to figure out what the "live" situation is.

Here is a link to the financial statements for the period ended 31 May 2019 -

https://d3j2s6hdd6a7rg.cloudfront.net/images/misc/Liverpool-Football-Club-Annual-Report-and-Consolidated-Financial-Statements-31May2019.PDF (https://d3j2s6hdd6a7rg.cloudfront.net/images/misc/Liverpool-Football-Club-Annual-Report-and-Consolidated-Financial-Statements-31May2019.PDF)

It will be PDF and you'll have to download. If it doesn't work, try access via copy and paste of "https://www.liverpoolfc.com/corporate/financial-information" and there will be a "please download to view" with "download" being an interactive click.

[Nineteenx]

I'm somewhat at a loss as to why everyone's whinging about our net spend when having a smaller tight knit squad and 14 or 15 that feature in almost every game has beeen a huge reason for our success

[skyebo]

They're always published, aye.

But you always get information "late" as it were, so there is always an element of guess-work when trying to figure out what the "live" situation is.

Here is a link to the financial statements for the period ended 31 May 2019 -

https://d3j2s6hdd6a7rg.cloudfront.net/images/misc/Liverpool-Football-Club-Annual-Report-and-Consolidated-Financial-Statements-31May2019.PDF (https://d3j2s6hdd6a7rg.cloudfront.net/images/misc/Liverpool-Football-Club-Annual-Report-and-Consolidated-Financial-Statements-31May2019.PDF)

It will be PDF and you'll have to download. If it doesn't work, try access via copy and paste of "https://www.liverpoolfc.com/corporate/financial-information" and there will be a "please download to view" with "download" being an interactive click.

Ok thanks for that Sid.

[Insidious]

I'm somewhat at a loss as to why everyone's whinging about our net spend when having a smaller tight knit squad and 14 or 15 that feature in almost every game has beeen a huge reason for our success

It has been a real success, but a squad that was too small (which ours is "in effect" due to how many players are never fit) was also detrimental to us in the past - 08/09 we didn't quite win the League, 09/10 we had a drop, 14/15 we couldn't get close to challenging again.

I don't think we can expect the same 14/15 to be available and in top form semi-indefinitely.

[justme]

Our squad maybe small and compact. But we don't have some players in some positions. we don't have a forward. Just a false 9 and then some others who can play there.

[Nineteenx]

Reason i advocate playing as many of our best 11 from last seasons purple patch plus Thiago is that group always had to pull together and get through any spells we weren't at our best because there were no options, and they did, that's why i've been a bit narky about all the new bestest thing so many wanting to chop and change every time we haven't or individuals haven't been at their best, i just don't think it helps

[CCTV]

Fair enough - some of this is off-set by unseen agent fees, the cost of a Pandemic (United for example have lost £129m and counting) and the fact we have "ear-marked" money that we won't want to eat into, such as the £60m for the next stage of the stadium's development, or "main" Summer targets that we may have consciously decide we don't want to overspend on by £15m as a result of buying them in January (what would Upamecano cost in Jan, £55m?) rather than waiting 5 months or so.

The next set(s) of financial accounts will be interesting anyway.

Agents fees are included in the accounts.

The covid situation is a little complex.
But as Steveo posted somewhere earlier today and as I suggested last season, getting more games on tv could well see teams compensated kindly for the loss of matchday attendances.
If fans return I can see the clubs suggesting they need to offer up more games for TV viewing than prior to covid times, which would help boost revenue again and a recovery.
The TV market has likely (imo) topped out a bit, as in the rise in TV money will probably have steadied for a while. But if it can add more televised games they'll bring in more money and still be pretty valuable compared with existing packages for broadcasters.

The injury crisis at centre back- virgil being out and 2 others who are regularly injured presents an issue.
We have a minimum target of qualifying from our CL group and getting top4 again. Just look at the impact of CL football on revenue.
If you were to pay 10-15 more now you could be saving yourself from the loss of a small fortune and table position to borrow a poker term.

It's a bit like driving a car for 5 months knowing you need new brakes and hoping to not crash and burn whilst you're penny piching waiting on parts that you can get cheaper in 5 months time.
If you need brakes, you get brakes or you drive like an old woman or me (not an old woman today).

Accounts should be out soon, iirc my expectation is we will post a decent profit.

Next years will be more interesting as there is the impact of the Nike deal up against an actual season or so it seems of no fans/matchday revenue.
Based on previous guesses an impact of -£30million in revenue (gates lost - Nike bump), assuming there'll be no extra money from extra televised games and giving a little leeway for how far we go in the CL again a big impact on it's own.

It seems the sales are up significantly but I've not seen too much posted about that so far.

£100million loan for players seems astronomical.

But if you earned 50k a year, had money left over at the end of each year, how mad would it be to take a 10k loan over 5 years.
Especially if the loan will keep you in a 50k a year job and prevent you from losing income.

[CCTV]

Probably still a bit more in increments to be gained in the CL TV deals.

[CCTV]

Reason i advocate playing as many of our best 11 from last seasons purple patch plus Thiago is that group always had to pull together and get through any spells we weren't at our best because there were no options, and they did, that's why i've been a bit narky about all the new bestest thing so many wanting to chop and change every time we haven't or individuals haven't been at their best, i just don't think it helps

Outside of that purple patch last season there was also purple years.

If we want to have a bigger and better squad, we need to add quality players who can dethrone the incumbents. If the players we add are good enough to dethrone existing starters, they will boost the side.

More options helps avoiding burn out and injuries and allows for rotation and the boost of competition. Something Steve has brought up with you earlier.

Something most would acknowledge with hendo. When he was benched and suggested to Klopp he can play rcm he came back in great fashion and became a pivotal part of our best 11. Having improved under Klopp generally.

[CCTV]

The season before last was better imo.

Won the Champions league and finished on 97 points. An incredible return in the big 2 competitions.

[Steveo]

The season before last was better imo.

Won the Champions league and finished on 97 points. An incredible return in the big 2 competitions.

Some real nuggets in these last few posts CC.

I only wish our starting 11 were on half as good form.

This bit about the brakes is the PERFECT analogy... Spot on

“ It's a bit like driving a car for 5 months knowing you need new brakes and hoping to not crash and burn whilst you're penny piching waiting on parts that you can get cheaper in 5 months time.
If you need brakes, you get brakes or you drive like an old woman or me (not an old woman today). ”

The 97 point season was epic - I mean we are talking about 2 points less but a Champions League win all while up against a 98 point City!! And the brakes definitely needed some new discs and pads after that slog. The car kept going for just over half the next race before they started slipping. This summer we bought some pads but the discs we didn’t buy after winning number 6 are still missing...!

[Insidious]

I get what you're saying CCTV.

The flip side of the risk/reward scenario (spending a little more on a centre-back) I suppose is spending the extra money and then NOT getting Top Four, having invested more, with less coming in.

Feel there's a sense of a (calculated) gamble in either direction and FSG are perhaps doubling down to keep the status quo, ie if our actions show we are willing to overpay now, another club might aim to weedle more out of us later, same for agents with wages.

Whether this approach is actually really wise or not is subject to debate of course.

[LEGS]

I get what you're saying CCTV.

The flip side of the risk/reward scenario (spending a little more on a centre-back) I suppose is spending the extra money and then NOT getting Top Four, having invested more, with less coming in.

Feel there's a sense of a (calculated) gamble in either direction and FSG are perhaps doubling down to keep the status quo, ie if our actions show we are willing to overpay now, another club might aim to weedle more out of us later, same for agents with wages.

Whether this approach is actually really wise or not is subject to debate of course.

Exactly ask Leeds how that worked out.

Its clear Klopp asked for a CB but they said no.

Some idiots seem to think we are in for Mbappe its laughable we arent and never were, the figures would be off the scale.

[eggy81]

This has become huge for us now IMO. I want us to win this cup while improving to finish in the top 3 and a deep run in Europe at least. If we want to continue on the road to a period of sustained success we need to pick up a trophy in seasons where we aren’t quite at our best and slightly between teams. This team still has lots of quality but needs a few more tweaks to get back to where we want to be. The cup and a European run would be exactly the solution to keep thing ticking over.

[Insidious]

Apparently our last win against Man United at Old Trafford in the FA Cup was...

.....*drum roll*......

.......1921.

[Steveo]

Apparently our last win against Man United at Old Trafford in the FA Cup was...

.....*drum roll*......

.......1921.



Faaaaark me!!!!

That is incredible.

[ianlfc]

Apparently our last win against Man United at Old Trafford in the FA Cup was...

.....*drum roll*......

.......1921.

Skyebo remembers it well 😃😃

[skyebo]

Skyebo remembers it well ����

Remember it, i was reffing it lol

[CCTV]

I get what you're saying CCTV.

The flip side of the risk/reward scenario (spending a little more on a centre-back) I suppose is spending the extra money and then NOT getting Top Four, having invested more, with less coming in.

Feel there's a sense of a (calculated) gamble in either direction and FSG are perhaps doubling down to keep the status quo, ie if our actions show we are willing to overpay now, another club might aim to weedle more out of us later, same for agents with wages.

Whether this approach is actually really wise or not is subject to debate of course.

Not sure a January signing has that impact on other signings. Seems a bit of a stretch, was it an error to sign Virgil in a January window?

Personally, without a January signing, I still hold hopes of us retaining our title, though that hope is sliding with every passing week, points dropped and an emerging gap.
We're not favourites presently.

Our risk of not getting top4 or better is always there, hard to look at lfc under klopp and see brave decisions not paying off.
Won a title many thought we couldn't do without an oil owner or similar.


Exactly ask Leeds how that worked out.

Its clear Klopp asked for a CB but they said no.

Some idiots seem to think we are in for Mbappe its laughable we arent and never were, the figures would be off the scale.

To use your own stick, why are we talking about Leeds ?

Not really a comparable club and also an irregular story of clubs at the top end or close to it going bust.
Would you suggest spurs or arsenal are going to go bust in the next season or 2 ?

Ffp was brought in prior to Leeds administration and under the system we have an ability to spend and still be ffp compliant.

The lines trotted out by the good journo followers...

We couldn't sign Klopp
We can't compete for top players
We can't expect to spend like a big club
We can't expect to match city under pep

Yet some ididots maintained hope..

We could entice Klopp as he's a romantic and would be more enticed by us than Barca or real
We signed top players with competition from real big clubs, virgil over city as we blew them out of the signing financially according to Pep :)
Real got courtois, while we signed Alisson and some idiot on here didn't believe the trusted journos, who said we wouldn't and Ward would be no1 for the season.
Some said we'd never sign virgil after the club issued a public statement, I was assured that would mean we would never sign him.

And now its Mbappe, we couldn't afford to sign him.
Reality is we will compete with real Madrid and see if we can get him in.
Last year of his contract so fee shouldn't be too astronomical and hes a commercial cash cow that would be a benefit to the club on top of being a quality finisher.
He's turned down big wages repeatedly at PSG and made it clear he wants out.

[Balinkay]

Apparently our last win against Man United at Old Trafford in the FA Cup was...

.....*drum roll*......

.......1921.

Wooo! Cool stat! Though I guess we don't play them all that often in the FA Cup.

[Insidious]

Not sure a January signing has that impact on other signings. Seems a bit of a stretch, was it an error to sign Virgil in a January window?

Personally, without a January signing, I still hold hopes of us retaining our title, though that hope is sliding with every passing week, points dropped and an emerging gap.
We're not favourites presently.

No it wasn't a mistake, nor are January transfers in principle - different circumstances. Ignoring the whole thing of the £100m or more loss from the pandemic, the money we didn't make due to not getting past Atletico and the £60m we won't spend due to it being ear-marked for the stadium expansion, factor these in -

- We didn't overpay for Van Dijk
- Van Dijk was the top target we wanted and available, at a price we were happy to pay
- Edwards will want to over-pay or under-sell as few times as possible under us, otherwise future negotiations will be done without us having the upper hand very often.

The other thing to add (this is a "financial sensibility hat" not my "I want us to win everything hat") is that, for the financial sustainability of the Club, it's Top Four finishes that matter for long-term sustainability.

FSG will (I imagine) look at the side, look at Klopp, look at what we have achieved and think "yeah, we can get Top Four with this, this season, so why add now?".

Let's imagine we are going to have a £60m Summer budget. Then we decide we are buying a centre-back this window, spending £15m more due to our sense of desperation - and thus FSG say "well, you ate into the £60m, so the Summer budget is £45m now".

I suspect (and again, a lot of this is guesswork admittedly) in terms of making every penny count (players available in Summer with release clauses and so on) which is what they seem to aim to do (£13m on Shaqiri rather than £60m in Mahrez) they'd rather keep the powder dry.

Buy our first-choice centre-back in the Summer and set ourselves up for a few years versus jeopardise our capacity to improve for fear over a sharp drop in form that should be temporary. I imagine that's their thought process, whether we agree with it or not.

[teesred]

When was the last time we knocked them out before 2012?
I cant find a record of the games. I know they've done us over a few times but I think we've only beaten them 4 times.

[CCTV]

No it wasn't a mistake, nor are January transfers in principle - different circumstances. Ignoring the whole thing of the £100m or more loss from the pandemic, the money we didn't make due to not getting past Atletico and the £60m we won't spend due to it being ear-marked for the stadium expansion, factor these in -

- We didn't overpay for Van Dijk
- Van Dijk was the top target we wanted and available, at a price we were happy to pay
- Edwards will want to over-pay or under-sell as few times as possible under us, otherwise future negotiations will be done without us having the upper hand very often.

The other thing to add (this is a "financial sensibility hat" not my "I want us to win everything hat") is that, for the financial sustainability of the Club, it's Top Four finishes that matter for long-term sustainability.

FSG will (I imagine) look at the side, look at Klopp, look at what we have achieved and think "yeah, we can get Top Four with this, this season, so why add now?".

Let's imagine we are going to have a £60m Summer budget. Then we decide we are buying a centre-back this window, spending £15m more due to our sense of desperation - and thus FSG say "well, you ate into the £60m, so the Summer budget is £45m now".

I suspect (and again, a lot of this is guesswork admittedly) in terms of making every penny count (players available in Summer with release clauses and so on) which is what they seem to aim to do (£13m on Shaqiri rather than £60m in Mahrez) they'd rather keep the powder dry.

Buy our first-choice centre-back in the Summer and set ourselves up for a few years versus jeopardise our capacity to improve for fear over a sharp drop in form that should be temporary. I imagine that's their thought process, whether we agree with it or not.

What 100 million loss ?Since covid arrived there hasn't been a 100 million loss for lfc yet.
Again if you want to ignore the net impact of Nike bump that's fine. It's just like saying Klopps spent a fortune re gross spend and ignoring his net spend on transfers.

Infrastructure doesn't enter into ffp. Spending on infrastructure for the stadium, pays itself off in the short term and the extra income generated lasts long after its paid off. Capital investments like new stands are a win win for the club.
Iirc the new training complex has been put through the books already. A 50million cost that should be offset by the sale of melwood site, possible sponsorship deals. Probably last 50 years. Our infrastructure spending, which I endore:), is small relatively and pays for itself.

I'd suggest we overpaid a little due to the summer issues with Soton, but it was worth signing VVD.
Do you think the club has no top target now ?
That's true but our success in itself will hamper that possibility somewhat, only so long before clubs twig we kept getting some players for way less than their worth.
It's a good strategy and it won't disappear but overtime other clubs smarten up.

Agree top4 is a key to long term success, but winning big titles is a step up again. Sponsors, top players, extra revenue from winning the cl or going deep each year.
Manu got massive as they were winning titles regularly, Wenger for all his years of top 4 couldn't take a London club to that level of finance.
It's a bigger gamble to take by fsg if they do as you suggest.

A bit too much abstract imaginations going on there with the rest. Not trying to be a smart arse.

[Insidious]

Didn't take it as being a smart arse, don't worry - there's a lot to sift through and I wasn't providing anything concrete.

[CCTV]

Cool

[Nineteenx]

Strogest possible team and a win please

All the media talking about the end of our run at Anfield, let's give them something else to talk about, a first Liverpool win in the FA Cup at Old Toilet in 100 years ;)

[CCTV]

Some real nuggets in these last few posts CC.

I only wish our starting 11 were on half as good form.

This bit about the brakes is the PERFECT analogy... Spot on

“ It's a bit like driving a car for 5 months knowing you need new brakes and hoping to not crash and burn whilst you're penny piching waiting on parts that you can get cheaper in 5 months time.
If you need brakes, you get brakes or you drive like an old woman or me (not an old woman today). ”

The 97 point season was epic - I mean we are talking about 2 points less but a Champions League win all while up against a 98 point City!! And the brakes definitely needed some new discs and pads after that slog. The car kept going for just over half the next race before they started slipping. This summer we bought some pads but the discs we didn’t buy after winning number 6 are still missing...!

Well you could say we've used the gears too much to compensate and wrecked the gear box, to keep an analogy rolling.

The 18/19 pl season had
30 wins
7 draws
1 loss (that city game)
Goals scored 89
Goals conceded 22 (close to that thommo teams record of 16? - which given the favouring of forwards since then is a great achievement)
+67 goal difference

The defence had a feeling of invincibility that year and I often felt like we could see out a game handily.
The CL exploits, just a fantastic campaign. Great memories.

19/20
Won 32
Drew 3
Lost 3
Scored 85
Conceded 33
+52 GD

The defence felt more fragile but still very good, did feel like we'd always find a way to win or not lose in the league. Of course people can point to covid as an interference to our end to the league, but mentality monsters and all that
Much of the same in the CL groupstages and an early enough exit from the CL.

For me the 2 extra points in the league, don't balance out well against less losses, more goals scored, less conceded and the knock on goal difference swing. The cl title obviously a big difference, real mentality monsters to win no 6.

Winning the title and what that meant for us all is of course a great thing to celebrate and meant loads.
But the season before we developed the mentality monsters mantra and that night at Anfield which ended up getting us no6 v spurs was a big deal.

We needed that title to reap the rewards of a stellar season. Speculation of course but had we not won a cl title that year, lost the final to spurs or seen them beat barca, that would have been a big kick in the balls.

[CCTV]

Both fine seasons obviously

[teesred]

When was the last time we knocked them out before 2012?
I cant find a record of the games. I know they've done us over a few times but I think we've only beaten them 4 times.

Forgot we knocked them out in 06 en route to winning it. Crouch scored in a 1-0 win.

[Kev0909]

gonnna win 7-0 and win the cup

bobby hat-trick

all our worries will go away

glorious day awaits

YNWA

[ianlfc]

We all love "Mo in the snow"

[skyebo]

We need to find out whether that record of no wins in the FA Cup at old trafford in 100 years is as bad as it looks. We may not have played them a lot of times.

[Balinkay]

Let's beat them and keep the treble dream alive!

[Balinkay]

We need to find out whether that record of no wins in the FA Cup at old trafford in 100 years is as bad as it looks. We may not have played them a lot of times.

As far as I can tell we've only played them at OT three times since then. Not a terrible record tbf.

We've had a few semis (which apparently used to be played at Maine Road and Goodison - why??) and lost finals though.

[ianlfc]

As far as I can tell we've only played them at OT three times since then. Not a terrible record tbf.

We've had a few semis (which apparently used to be played at Maine Road and Goodison - why??) and lost finals though.

Because Wembley was for Finals only. Then when they built the new one they needed to fill it as many times as possible and 2 semi finals was a good option.
Not that we've had many chances but the semi finals are a better way for the real supporters to get tickets as it's split 50/50 .
The Everton semi with Andy Carroll getting the winner comes to mind.
Apparently it was a brilliant day out.

[skyebo]

As far as I can tell we've only played them at OT three times since then. Not a terrible record tbf.

We've had a few semis (which apparently used to be played at Maine Road and Goodison - why??) and lost finals though.

I remember us taking the lead there one year, Michael Owen but couldn't hang on to it. Better in those days, saving Wembley for the final. Yeah, stats can be misleading if you just take them at face value.

[Balinkay]

Bagh, stats are awesome! When the numbers speak, even the Gods listen! You just have to be cautious, somewhat mathematiacally literate and understand the subject matter. :D That's why so many pundits have real problems with stats...

[Kev0909]

Everyone excited???

can't wait expect us to score at least 4 on recent form

buzzing

probably will be the best game of the season! thrilling football

[Balinkay]

I am. Time to bring them down to Earth.

[stevie harkness]

We'll win 1-0 and that'll only cast even more gloom and negativity on the forum.

[Steveo]

I am. Time to bring them down to Earth.

This - let’s just go out and play our game - forget the recent form and smash this filth to bits..!

[teesred]

I remember us taking the lead there one year, Michael Owen but couldn't hang on to it. Better in those days, saving Wembley for the final. Yeah, stats can be misleading if you just take them at face value.

99 the year they won the treble. They knocked us out one year not too far back when Gerrard got sent off.

[Nineteenx]

Everyone excited???

can't wait expect us to score at least 4 on recent form

buzzing

probably will be the best game of the season! thrilling football

3-0 to us Kev

[Nineteenx]

Team confirmed:


Alisson

Trent R.Williams Fabinho Robertson

Milner Thiago Wijnaldum

Salah Firmino Jones

Let's stretch some filthy arsehole

[Kev0909]

Matip not on the bench?

Oh oh....

Edit- according to Pearce he's just being managed carefully before spurs game makes sense

don't want ihm on the bench could get injured standing/sitting down

[Nineteenx]

Matip not on the bench?

Oh oh....

Edit- according to Pearce he's just being managed carefully before spurs game makes sense

don't want ihm on the bench could get injured standing/sitting down

It's such a shame he has his recurring injury issues, he is comfortably the second best CB in the league with only Virgil ahead of him when fit. I'd sell him in the summer if we can get Schuurs then, as we need another commanding CB, I think he is an incredible CB, oozes class, but it's no good to us at all if he spends over half the season in the treatment room

[skyebo]

99 the year they won the treble. They knocked us out one year not too far back when Gerrard got sent off.

That's right Tees, Dalglish's first game back as manager i think.

[Nineteenx]

This - let’s just go out and play our game - forget the recent form and smash this filth to bits..!

Yep, let's stretch some filthy arsehole today

[Balinkay]

Hm... interesting - I wonder if we'll play a 4-4-2?

[skyebo]

Hm... interesting - I wonder if we'll play a 4-4-2?

According to 5 live it's 4-5-1 with just Salah up top.

[Kev0909]

Glad martial isn't playing, not the fastest of teams we've got out

[skyebo]

At least we'll have a go and try to win it. More than what they did last week.

[Kev0909]

At least we'll have a go and try to win it. More than what they did last week.

what makes you think that?

Players that have showed that are Origi and shaqiri, in my eyes both not playing.

Hope you're right though... and we start to turn it around today

big games firmino n salah pls

[shminkyred]

Yep, let's stretch some filthy arsehole today

Thats what I like to hear!!!!!!

[CCTV]

what makes you think that?

Players that have showed that are Origi and shaqiri, in my eyes both not playing.

Hope you're right though... and we start to turn it around today

big games firmino n salah pls

Saving Shaq for the game v spurs, maybe Origi off the bench in both games

[Nineteenx]

At least we'll have a go and try to win it. More than what they did last week.

Yep

[eggy81]

My god we look slow. No options going forward yet short of numbers at the back when they break. Not liking our chances going by the early stages.