The demise of Football Club Barcelona

[Balinkay]

Erm... Barca... a-are you ok?

https://www.goal.com/en/news/barcelona-financial-report-reveals-considerable-debt-that/xhdolg8mesqj1q8diwtu3d8co

[TheDOC1979]

Need a new thread “the demise of LFC online” with all these threads 🤬

[Balinkay]

Not but for real - the others are tongue in cheek, but this one might be an actual demise. How the heck do you pay off a billion in debts??

[Steveo]

They are defo in a pretty bad pickle BUT suggestions they are likely to go under... are like these paintings... :wink:


https://youtu.be/eEnoLug1Izo

[TheDOC1979]

Not but for real - the others are tongue in cheek, but this one might be an actual demise. How the heck do you pay off a billion in debts??

Sell your arse on the streets?

[reddownunder]

Getting Messi off the wage bill would be a good start

[Balinkay]

@Steveo

Yeah, agree it's pretty unlikely, but I mean... Parma, Leeds - it's happened before. Yes, they were nowhere neat the size of Barcelona (at present) but they weren't tiny clubs either! A billion is a lot of money. A lot.

@rdu

Not sure that would even make a considerable dent. How much does he realistically earn? 50m a year? Even if it's 100m... still nowhere near enough, not to mention that losing it would impact a lot of their revenue streams very negatively. He might be a net financial gain for them for all we know!

[CCTV]

Owe about a billion
Earn close to that each year

Annual income - debt servicing - then pay off some of the amount owed when you can.

I wont be buying them, but big football teams continue to entice new owners and investors

[skyebo]

Owe about a billion
Earn close to that each year

Annual income - debt servicing - then pay off some of the amount owed when you can.

I wont be buying them, but big football teams continue to entice new owners and investors

Apparently, they still owe us £35m for Coutinho, 3 years on.

[CCTV]

They've been run badly over recent years, wouldn't take too much to turn their situation around imo.

[CCTV]

Apparently, they still owe us £35m for Coutinho, 3 years on.

Do they owe us that money or do they just owe that money to a lender/debt ?

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-coutinho-transfer-money-barcelona-19503754

Without having access to the details of our books and the details of the contract it's hard to know imo.

That link suggests it is largely paid off, that add-ons were linked to their making CL QF stages over the last 2 seasons, whereas I'd read elsewhere that those clauses related to about 10 million for Barca winning the CL over the last 2 seasons, about 5 million each year.

[skyebo]

Do they owe us that money or do they just owe that money to a lender/debt ?

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-coutinho-transfer-money-barcelona-19503754

Without having access to the details of our books and the details of the contract it's hard to know imo.

That link suggests it is largely paid off, that add-ons were linked to their making CL QF stages over the last 2 seasons, whereas I'd read elsewhere that those clauses related to about 10 million for Barca winning the CL over the last 2 seasons, about 5 million each year.

Don't know CCTV, just saw the headline when i came on earlier.

[Insidious]

Not but for real - the others are tongue in cheek, but this one might be an actual demise. How the heck do you pay off a billion in debts??

Part of me thinks it's a PR disaster if you're the bank that rocks up to Barca with the storage container on the trailer and actually says "alright boys, taa-taa, we'll be taking that" but equally banks aren't going to NOT reclaim their money either.

Look forward to laughing at the inevitable entertainment when the time comes.

[CCTV]

Don't know CCTV, just saw the headline when i came on earlier.

Considering how strongly they were in for him, I doubt we got mucked about much

[skyebo]

Considering how strongly they were in for him, I doubt we got mucked about much

Yeah, probably.

[Balinkay]

I mean... his transfer also came with a clause they had to pay a 100m premium on any LFC players until... summer 2020?

That's pretty crazy.

[CCTV]

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/debt-financing-secret-behind-big-money-transfers-football

[CCTV]

^^an old article but it is short and puts across the basics of giant brand recognition in football

This theme came up before in my many magnificent Mbappe threads - who is a real commercial cash cow and brand building target

[dicko1969]

This example is exactly the good example of why Liverpool don't pay million pound a month salaries.
Nor spend money without future thought.

I'm sure many (especially on here too
Would have liverpool debt ridden and living way beyond their means within 1 transfer window.

It works on chumpionship manager why not in reality ... lol.

Oh well
Let's get Upamecano konate and another 5 cb just in case.

Sell origi £25m , Shaqiri £20m hahaha

And sign messi on £5m a month.

Good stuff 🤣😉

[dicko1969]

Million £ weekly salaries *
Salah must be near £1m a month.

[CCTV]

This example is exactly the good example of why Liverpool don't pay million pound a month salaries.
Nor spend money without future thought.

I'm sure many (especially on here too
Would have liverpool debt ridden and living way beyond their means within 1 transfer window.

It works on chumpionship manager why not in reality ... lol.

Oh well
Let's get Upamecano konate and another 5 cb just in case.

Sell origi £25m , Shaqiri £20m hahaha

And sign messi on £5m a month.

Good stuff 🤣😉

Whilst I enjoy your zest of jest, it's better served with a pinch of reality;)

[reddownunder]

Details of Messi's contract have apparently been leaked. If true he is paid an absolutely mind blowing €555 million over 4 seasons. Their finances will be looking significantly better when he is out the door this summer

[RedNoodle]

Whilst I enjoy your zest of jest, it's better served with a pinch of reality;)

Unfortunately most people don't like/can't deal with the real world, hence why so many like to either stick their head in the sand, and/or try to reside within some fantasy world, often through the use of booze and/or more illicit substances.

[ianlfc]

The only winner in this Messi saga at the minute is the Spanish government. I'm near sure footballers pay 50% tax over there.

[Steveo]

Disgusting isn’t it?

Even it is 50% TAX... Just think...he would only be left with measly €275,000 a week... net!!!

poor fella - and in a nation with 14% unemployment...

There is no justice in this world. :D

[Insidious]

Between PSG, Man City and signing another Barca contract you'd think.

Barca needed to be brave and do a bit of a clear-out a while ago but it would have taken a brave President/committee/however their structure works these days to do that.

[ianlfc]

Disgusting isn’t it?

Even it is 50% TAX... Just think...he would only be left with measly €275,000 a week... net!!!

poor fella - and in a nation with 14% unemployment...

There is no justice in this world. :D

He wants out though but the club wants him to stay. No doubt having Messi generates more money than they pay on his wages.

[Steveo]

Perhaps he does - - the club may even project that too.

I would wager he doesn’t though. I believe his cost relative to Barcelona’s potential for trophies is the root cause of it - as a club with fan ownership.

[ianlfc]

Perhaps he does - - the club may even project that too.

I would wager he doesn’t though. I believe his cost relative to Barcelona’s potential for trophies is the root cause of it - as a club with fan ownership.

I thought he asked for a transfer during the summer. I can hardly blame him, considering they sold Suarez and replaced him with Braithwaite.

[Insidious]

I thought he asked for a transfer during the summer. I can hardly blame him, considering they sold Suarez and replaced him with Braithwaite.

Speaking of selling Suarez, Atletico are 7 points clear at the top and have TWO games in hand, they're having one Hell of a season.

The twats :lol:

[Steveo]

Speaking of selling Suarez, Atletico are 7 points clear at the top and have TWO games in hand, they're having one Hell of a season.

The twats :lol:

Barca look to have made one almighty cock up there - keep Messi and lose Suarez... But Messi is a bit like Wenger was to Arsenal. You can understand it.

[ianlfc]

I'd look over it if Suarez was finished but he's still banging in the goals. Also he was Messi were big friends outside the football will family of similar ages. It was a crazy decision and really got Messi's back up.

[Steveo]

Suarez no slouch so far this season... New Club - so what..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/spanish-la-liga/top-scorers

[Kev0909]

Suarez no slouch so far this season... New Club - so what..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/spanish-la-liga/top-scorers

Quality is forever and all that

he was never super fast, so not surprised he's still smashing it

what a player..... and people say firmino is world class, even when suarez joined us 10 years ago..... x2 better that is real world class and the striker we deserve as champions of europe season before last, and last season winners of the league...:highly_amused:

[Crimson Dynasty]

Sorry to interrupt, but why is this thread?

I thought we had learned our lesson in starting these sorts of threads gawking at other rival clubs' alleged demises, while our own stately manor is meanwhile falling apart over our own shoulders.

Are we gluttons for (schadenfreude) punishment?

[Balinkay]

It's why I started it, CD. :) Plan to do one every time a team has a slight wobble. Ironically Barcelona are probably most deserving of such a thread right now! Even if it might be a tad overboard.

[Insidious]

Sorry to interrupt, but why is this thread?

I thought we had learned our lesson in starting these sorts of threads gawking at other rival clubs' alleged demises, while our own stately manor is meanwhile falling apart over our own shoulders.

Are we gluttons for (schadenfreude) punishment?

The failings of other clubs and our capacity to poke fun / have discussion about them has zero impact on Klopp and the Mentality Monsters. Zero.

Life's short, enjoy it.

The El Mundo report -- which was released late on Saturday night -- said Messi's 30-page contract saw Barcelona agree to pay the forward €138,000,000 per season, including variables.

It included a signing-on bonus of €115,225,000 for accepting the renewal and a "loyalty" bonus of €77,929,955.

The newspaper claims that with five months still left to run on the deal, Messi has already earned €511,540,545.

Wow.

[ianlfc]

The failings of other clubs and our capacity to poke fun / have discussion about them has zero impact on Klopp and the Mentality Monsters. Zero.

Life's short, enjoy it.

The El Mundo report -- which was released late on Saturday night -- said Messi's 30-page contract saw Barcelona agree to pay the forward €138,000,000 per season, including variables.

It included a signing-on bonus of €115,225,000 for accepting the renewal and a "loyalty" bonus of €77,929,955.

The newspaper claims that with five months still left to run on the deal, Messi has already earned €511,540,545.

Wow.

There's an awful lot of numbers there !!

[eggy81]

There's an awful lot of numbers there !!

Crazy shit. Should have cashed in on him long ago.

[fiordearg]

Suarez is still the best forward we have had in the past 20 years in my view

[Insidious]

Suarez is still the best forward we have had in the past 20 years in my view

Have we ever had a more naturally talented footballer?

I'm not saying "best" - just talking raw, natural ability.

He has got to be up there. Even some of his misses showed insane ability - that corner against Arsenal where the ball arrives behind him and he enters reverse, at speed and gets a volley off that clatters off the post is one of the most insane "nearly goals I have seen with us.

Craig Bellamy ( the nearly-goals thing, not the talent thing) also had a ridiculous free kick attempt against....want to say Plymouth, but have forgotten. Was miles out.

[miller0863]

I’ve been going since ‘71 and Suarez for me, is only surpassed by Gerrard on ability.

[RedNoodle]

Barnes is worthy of a shout.

[miller0863]

Barnes is but Suarez and Gerrard had the drive to back up the sheer ability which drove them on to win countless games on their own

[RedNoodle]

Barnes is but Suarez and Gerrard had the drive to back up the sheer ability which drove them on to win countless games on their own

Perhaps. But then again they had to do that. Barnes got to play in better sides than Suarez and Gerrard did, and thus he could concentrate on what he was good at, rather than trying to be everywhere/do everything on his own.

[miller0863]

It’s difficult at that elite level to compare anyway Noods, particularly across different eras. Barnes, Dalglish, Gerrard, Suarez even Beardsley who I think often gets forgotten in discussions about our most talented players.

[RedNoodle]

Beardsley was good at making the so called 'simple stuff' look effortless.

[dicko1969]

£120M a year
£10m a month
£2.5m a week.

Noods are you running Barcelona.

That's financial ruin .
Could Barcelona go under?

€1bn in debt.

At least they will get messi off the books next season. Use the money on Gini and Memphis.

No wonder they got braithwaite.

Like buying a nicole fahri tshirt and then buying your 2nd tshirt from a charity shop.

I'm really pleased fsg are not living beyond their means.

I cant remember the lovely Alan sugar comments about being a chairman... but it was along the lines of business suicide.

[RedNoodle]

£120M a year
£10m a month
£2.5m a week.

Noods are you running Barcelona.

That's financial ruin .
Could Barcelona go under?

€1bn in debt.

At least they will get messi off the books next season. Use the money on Gini and Memphis.

No wonder they got braithwaite.

Like buying a nicole fahri tshirt and then buying your 2nd tshirt from a charity shop.

I'm really pleased fsg are not living beyond their means.

I cant remember the lovely Alan sugar comments about being a chairman... but it was along the lines of business suicide.

Why do you insist on trying to make out I've suggested that we go on some kind of gargantuan spending spree and get ourselves into massive debt? I haven't, so please knock it on the head.

I've only dealt in facts and things which most other reasoned people can see i.e. that 'we' have spent peanuts, and that we should be spending an amount commensurate with our standing in world football, our recent success, and most importantly in line with our revenue, that is if 'we' want to have sustained success, especially as and when Klopp leaves.

[eggy81]

Anyone remember the quick free kick when the ref wasn’t looking against Newcastle that was disallowed. Ball was moving so correct decision but I nearly fell off the couch at the ingenuity of it at the time. What a player.


https://youtu.be/Fjxv45OKgys



Poor quality video here.

[Kev0909]

Anyone remember the quick free kick when the ref wasn’t looking against Newcastle that was disallowed. Ball was moving so correct decision but I nearly fell off the couch at the ingenuity of it at the time. What a player.


https://youtu.be/Fjxv45OKgys



Poor quality video here.

if he was scouse not a cunt, and stuck around for a while longer people would say he's the best player we've had for over 20 years if not longer, yep better than Gerrard

Won't see a player like that again here for a while I'd guess, bit like messi and ronaldo once in a generation- but not quite on there level BUT because he played for us, it makes it like that.

[RedNoodle]

if he was scouse not a cunt, and stuck around for a while longer people would say he's the best player we've had for over 20 years if not longer, yep better than Gerrard

Won't see a player like that again here for a while I'd guess, bit like messi and ronaldo once in a generation- but not quite on there level BUT because he played for us, it makes it like that.

Not me. Suarez was/is brilliant at what he does, but Gerrard was brilliant at almost everything. He was the most complete player I've ever seen and the nearest thing there has been to a real life "Roy of the Rovers".

If I had to clone one player to make up a team of ten outfield players. and be confident of being able to beat any other team put in front of it, that player would be Gerrard. Not Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo, Maradona, or any other player.

[Joetan991]

wijnaldum is leaving Liverpool for Barca, seriously ?

[redebreck]

if he was scouse not a cunt, and stuck around for a while longer people would say he's the best player we've had for over 20 years if not longer, yep better than Gerrard

Won't see a player like that again here for a while I'd guess, bit like messi and ronaldo once in a generation- but not quite on there level BUT because he played for us, it makes it like that.

I was privileged to have been at Anfield when we beat Norwich 5-1. Suarez scored four I think. Amazing player. Second best natural footballer I have ever seen "live". Gerrard was the best I've ever seen.

[Insidious]

wijnaldum is leaving Liverpool for Barca, seriously ?

From the outside looking in, it does look a little odd.

If he does indeed leave we can't fault his professionalism. When we think of Gini and contrast it with Coutinho's "back injury" for example they are Worlds apart.

[Steveo]

True

I guess you could also say from the inside looking out - that the situations are worlds apart.

Coutinho - in his prime - leaving a Liverpool side that had won nothing - going to what was still arguably the best side (perceived as such) in Europe - a boyhood fan too. A kind of its now or never scenario.

Gini - leaving the English Champions and recent European and STILL reigning World Champions for a desperate Barca.

I think things are different when you have won the lot already.


I just hope we keep our Gini.

[dicko1969]

Why do you insist on trying to make out I've suggested that we go on some kind of gargantuan spending spree and get ourselves into massive debt? I haven't, so please knock it on the head.

I've only dealt in facts and things which most other reasoned people can see i.e. that 'we' have spent peanuts, and that we should be spending an amount commensurate with our standing in world football, our recent success, and most importantly in line with our revenue, that is if 'we' want to have sustained success, especially as and when Klopp leaves.

Peanuts?
How much was
Salah Mane Alisson VVD Keita Oxlade ...

Peanuts?

What do fish eat ?because you have the memory of that fish in Nemo 🤣🤣

[miller0863]

He’s referring to net spend dicko, as you well know. Our net spend has been peanuts.

[dicko1969]

True

I guess you could also say from the inside looking out - that the situations are worlds apart.

Coutinho - in his prime - leaving a Liverpool side that had won nothing - going to what was still arguably the best side (perceived as such) in Europe - a boyhood fan too. A kind of its now or never scenario.

Gini - leaving the English Champions and recent European and STILL reigning World Champions for a desperate Barca.

I think things are different when you have won the lot already.


I just hope we keep our Gini.

I'd be surprised a boyhood fan.
Probably flamengo or sao Paulo.

Everyone in brazil likes the best team in Europe.

15 years or so ago growing up in brazil likely he also was a 'fan' of ac milan (pato).

No Brazilian can really call themself a 'true' fan of anything in Europe.
It's more their second team scenario.
Be like you Steveo.
Your team is sligo rovers but you 'support' liverpool. 🤣🤣

[dicko1969]

On top of the peanuts
You have got the salaries.
£120m a year
Liverpool are running a football club
Not some kind of fantasy.

[miller0863]

It’s all relative dicko, Brighton and Everton also have wages to pay, relative to their income. Our income is only bettered by Utd in this country, and that gap is narrowing by the year.

[RedNoodle]

Our high wage bill is more than offset by us not spending loads on fees e.g. Milner, never mind the recent additions to our squad. If other clubs can manage to do both, I think the fifth richest club in the world can afford to spend a bit more than £20m a year on fees.

[southernboy]

Catalan police say they have made several arrests after searching the offices of Spanish side Barcelona.

The number of arrests made and the identity of those involved have not yet been confirmed.

The police operation was conducted on Monday after an investigation into financial issues at Barcelona.

The club's presidential elections take place on Sunday after their previous president, Josep Maria Bartomeu, announced his resignation in October.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56236872

[Steveo]

Not paying the price for the attempted cession?

Barcelona - flag bearers of Catalonia...

Hmm

[Steveo]

Anyone for some Caviar?

Ahem Nicola Sturgeon. :D

Barca finding themselves in a similar position to the SNP.

[CCTV]

Anyone for some Caviar?

Ahem Nicola Sturgeon. :D

Barca finding themselves in a similar position to the SNP.

Did she try and kill off the salmon!

[Steveo]

Did she try and kill off the salmon!

She’s been feeding him a line and hasn’t managed to reel him in yet - but it could be her that gets Loched up. :D

[CCTV]

She’s been feeding him a line and hasn’t managed to reel him in yet - but it could be her that gets Loched up. :D

Fish on fish violence, as bold as bass

[Steveo]

It’s said she’s a Dab hand in the gym and can hoist a Barbel over her Mullet with her little finger.

Counts for nothing though as she’s very short of Herring.

[CCTV]

I've no one liner to top that off, well and truly gutted :(

[ianlfc]

2 years ago tonight the unthinkable happened. Liverpool 4-0 Barcelona.
Remembering the good times which hopefully there will be more off under Jurgen.

[Insidious]

Whooooops!

Samuel Umtiti is refusing to rescind his contract, and Barcelona are looking at loaning him out to save a gross salary cost of €20 million. Without any offers for Philippe Coutinho, Barcelona are looking to find a club to pay his net salary of €14 million per season.
Zach Lowy
@ZachLowy


9h
If Barcelona do manage to loan Coutinho out to another club, they would save a gross cost of €28 million but would still have to keep paying amortization costs to Liverpool.


If you're wondering why Wolves could sign Francisco Trincão on loan with an option to buy, this is why.
Zach Lowy
@ZachLowy


9h
Barcelona swapped Arthur and Miralem Pjanić to balance the books, and yet, they still have to pay pending amortization costs of €45m. Unwilling to rescind his deal, they could loan him out and save €16m in gross ssalary, while having to pay €15m in amortization fees.

If Barcelona do manage to loan out Umtiti, Pjanić and Coutinho, they would save €64 million in gross salary payments.

HOWEVER, Barça can only reinvest 25% of this in new signings and player registrations due to La Liga rules.
Zach Lowy
@ZachLowy


9h
Barcelona's wage bill is 110% of its total income, and in case of exceeding this limit, they can only spend 25% of this income.

These savings would not be enough to register Lionel Messi, who makes the club more money in commercial income than he earns himself.

Without even taking into account the various signing bonuses and commissions that the free agents will receive, registering Memphis, Agüero, García and Emerson would cost over 25% of the €89.7m that Barcelona would theoretically save by loaning out Umtiti, Pjainić and Coutinho.
Zach Lowy
@ZachLowy


9h
Barcelona will be looking to get rid of the bloated wages of declining players, but their situation will force them to make some tough decisions this summer with regards to club legends like Sergio Busquets and Jordi Alba and young prospects like Sergiño Dest and Ronald Araújo.
Zach Lowy
@ZachLowy

9h
We've heard for years that Barcelona are going to be the 'next Milan' when Messi leaves.Now we're potentially at that point. Like early 2010s Milan, who brought in Riccardo Montolivo, Kaká, Keisuke Honda on free transfers, Barcelona are mainly focusing on free transfers too.

[CCTV]

That 20mill a year for umtiti doesnt pass the sniff test

[Taksin]

Roman Abramovich wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole.

I wonder if we could sign Pedri off them. Take a little bit of the edge off their 1 billion debt

[Taksin]

This is also part of the evidence against the net spend critics. Getting the wage bill under control and in balance is a skill in itself.

[Insidious]

That 20mill a year for umtiti doesnt pass the sniff test

He gets roughly 10m a year and his contract expires (if not rescinded) at the end of 22/23.

So 21/22 at 10m and 22/23 at another 10m is where the figure comes from.

[miller0863]

What a disgrace that club is. So …. looking at the wages of some ok but not World Class players, it would appear that money rather than the “glory of playing for” Barcelona was the driver all along.

Who’d have thunk it??

[Taksin]

What a disgrace that club is. So …. looking at the wages of some ok but not World Class players, it would appear that money rather than the “glory of playing for” Barcelona was the driver all along.

Who’d have thunk it??

It’s also interesting that they are owned by the fans as a model. If you think about it, the demands of the fans for big signings and guaranteed squad excellence could be a recipe for disaster when compared to the cold, realistic view of a businessman. Having the right heads in charge of strategy is crucial.

[Steveo]

Yep that’s right what have they won exactly?

:D

[Taksin]

Yep that’s right what have they won exactly?

:D

And what do you think they’ll win in the next ten years?

[justme]

In Spain? the title several times

[Steveo]

And what do you think they’ll win in the next ten years?

How on Earth could my answer carry much weight? Pure guess work based on what? This snapshot?

So much can change so quickly in football.

But citing their fan ownership as potential pitfall seems ridiculous after the most overwhelming period of success in their history.


Would you wager that we will win more than them?

[Taksin]

But citing their fan ownership as potential pitfall seems ridiculous after the most overwhelming period of success in their history.



Not if it has lead to overspending to the tune of 1 billion Euros

Imagine what our squad would look like with a billion quids worth of debt. Fairly impressive I'd say. Better than theirs anyway.

Yes I think we could easily win more than them in the next ten years - it all depends on what we can win because they look to be falling off a cliff at this point.

[Steveo]

I don not see how anyone can say with any accuracy at all that Barca’s debt is down to fan ownership.


Beyond that let’s hope this ages better than some others - if we win more over the next 10 years then them - I believe we will be doing very well.

[eggy81]

I don not see how anyone can say with any accuracy at all that Barca’s debt is down to fan ownership.


Beyond that let’s hope this ages better than some others - if we win more over the next 10 years then them - I believe we will be doing very well.

We should start by taking about 4 of their deadwood

[Insidious]

Any club that pays Griezmann €881,423 per week can go in the bin.

[Steveo]

And if we win half of what Bayern or Barca have ( with their daft fan ownership model ) in the last 10 years in the next 10 - we will be laughing.

Somehow I doubt those nicely balanced books will make that a reality.

[teesred]

I don not see how anyone can say with any accuracy at all that Barca’s debt is down to fan ownership.


Beyond that let’s hope this ages better than some others - if we win more over the next 10 years then them - I believe we will be doing very well.

Its not surely? They have had three years plus of ridiculous transfers that they have paid eye wauerting money for and failed miserably.
I genuinely can't remember the last transfer they got right since they bought Coutinho.
It's been one after another of poor signings with no resale value due to the crazy fees and wages they offered.

[teesred]

Who woud you genuinely have from their squad outside of the 3 mentioned there?

[eggy81]

Who woud you genuinely have from their squad outside of the 3 mentioned there?
Pedri and busquets anyway. If we were looking at releiving the debt they now
appear to be suffering from there’s several players that would improve us. Griezman would improve is immeasurably imho. But still fuck em.

Still think they’ll dominate Spain in the immediate future.

[Insidious]

And if we win half of what Bayern or Barca have ( with their daft fan ownership model ) in the last 10 years in the next 10 - we will be laughing.

Somehow I doubt those nicely balanced books will make that a reality.

They've both got excellent trophy hauls of late, but it's difficult to compare. Bayern have infinitely better income/infrastructure than the other sides in their League, to the point where it's almost like comparing Celtic/Rangers to the other SPL sides.

Barcelona meanwhile have had (arguably) the best to ever do it on their books in recent years, having won one(?) European Cup prior to the 05/06 win over Arsenal if I recall correctly.

Bayern will be "up there" for the next 10-20 years unless something drastically changes. Barcelona on the other hand could go either way - they need very, very intelligent recruitment if they are to stabilise and not have a bit of a collapse, though we see the "bouncebackability" of club sides regularly in Football - ourselves being a good example, Man United are well improved after a few difficult years and AC Milan are finally getting somewhere, so to be fair there's no reason Barcelona can't, though moving Messi etc on would do them good long-term.

[teesred]

Pedri and busquets anyway. If we were looking at releiving the debt they now
appear to be suffering from there’s several players that would improve us. Griezman would improve is immeasurably imho. But still fuck em.

Still think they’ll dominate Spain in the immediate future.

I liked Greizzeman at one point but he hasn't had the firm for Barca that he had at Atletico.
Theres not really much to be uop against so I guess they're fairly safe on the home front. R3al are in just as bad a state and Atletico might lose players. I'd like to see Atletico have a spell over the other 2 horrors of La Liga. Be a nice change.

[Taksin]

I don not see how anyone can say with any accuracy at all that Barca’s debt is down to fan ownership.

.

Not sure how you can say it isn’t.

Their ownership has got them into a massive pickle.

Their ownership is a fans owned model.

There are two arguments against the claim.

1) they aren’t in a pickle

2) the ownership isn’t responsible for the pickle.

You haven’t made either argument but, if you were to make the argument, I can’t see it being a strong one

[Steveo]

You don’t have to be sure that I have because I haven’t. :D

Even in the divorced sentence you have re posted I suggest it is difficult for anyone to say with any accuracy that this latest clusterfuck by Barca is due to fan ownership.

If they did they would also have to negate the fact that fan ownership was in place for one of the greatest club sides ever witnessed winning record numbers of trophies.

[Steveo]

The reality is that since selling Neymar (whoever sanctioned that deal in that guise should be shot Ahem Bartomeu) Barca have completely lost the plot on almost all signings since.

Certainly many Barca fans would point the finger at Bartomeu…

[Taksin]

Even in the divorced sentence you have re posted I suggest it is difficult for anyone to say with any accuracy that this latest clusterfuck by Barca is due to fan ownership.


You seem to defend your most closely held tenets of footballing truth by these obfuscating means. I mean, if you were being critical of our owners, the same defence would be 'its difficult for anyone to say this latest starvation of the transfer fund is the result of .......... - insert as desired; FSG, the the American ownership model, exploitative capitalism'. You wouldn't stand for that.

At some point, the ownership model has an effect. (unless you don't think it does)

The effects at Barcelona are disatrous for their future prospects. The ownership model is fan ownership.

Nowhere did anyone say the behaviour and resulting situation at Barcelona applies to all fan owned clubs in all places. What I said was 'it's interesting that this is the result of the fans based model'. I don't know if that is your preferred model for LFC, but if it is, it is interesting that his kind of outcome is still possible under those circumstances isn't it?

[Taksin]

The reality is that since selling Neymar (whoever sanctioned that deal in that guise should be shot Ahem Bartomeu) Barca have completely lost the plot on almost all signings since.


From what I recall, he was agitating heavily for the move himself. He became a problem as a result. Selling him was understandable in the end.

Also, they could seriously do with £250 million euros at this point in time. Their reinvestment of the money was, in retrospect, the unwise thing, having caused even more financial problems for them.

I wonder if, with a more sober and detached ownership, the same impulse to spend big would have been restrained, perhaps securing the future of the club.

[teesred]

From what I recall, he was agitating heavily for the move himself. He became a problem as a result. Selling him was understandable in the end.

Also, they could seriously do with £250 million euros at this point in time. Their reinvestment of the money was, in retrospect, the unwise thing, having caused even more financial problems for them.

I wonder if, with a more sober and detached ownership, the same impulse to spend big would have been restrained, perhaps securing the future of the club.

Over the last 3 years of things going wrong for then what would have been different if it wasn't a fan ownership model?
Its surely been the recruitment that's lead to the situation not the type of business model. The players they have bought and sold wouldn't have been any different.
I've not read or seen any news articles that suggest their fan ownership status has been the reason for their current financial mess, have you?

[Taksin]

Over the last 3 years of things going wrong for then what would have been different if it wasn't a fan ownership model?
Its surely been the recruitment that's lead to the situation not the type of business model. The players they have bought and sold wouldn't have been any different.


The fact is they are fan owned. Their ownership has got them into this mess.

The reason I made this comment is that, in the confusing world of football club ownership, it is not uncommon for fans to believe that the only true and fair way to run a club would be with such a model. I disagree with that belief, but it is none the less a common belief.

Like all partial solutions to difficult economic and social problems, it can be found out. I'd say Barcelona prove that fan ownership guarantees nothing, if long term sustained success is your desire for your club.

I don't have to say why I think it has gone so wrong and I don't claim to know why. I'm sure its for many reasons. But I did pose a question about whether there was pressure from the fans to make sure their CEO was spending plenty. You will notice from these boards that fans tend to think that is the single most important solution to the club's problems with achieving success. I wonder if that pressure was a factor in Barcelona overspending.

I believe their player wages alone account for 110% of their income. That is obviously a foolish position to get into. I also suggested that a cool headed businessman or team (even, cough, splutter.... spit, American ones) would be better at resisting the temptation to give the fans what they are calling for. But that is, of course, speculation and would not necessarily be true in all situations.

I would have thought it was an interesting topic of consideration, though.

One other thing. Net spend tends to be the argument for how well the club is investing but Barcelona are showing that wages are the more telling aspect of accounts. At the moment they have overspent on wages in an unsustainable way. they are trying to offload players based on their wages, not their market value. Although the 1 billion in debt obviously calls for some very important revenue acquisition from somewhere.

So I joked about 'imagine if we overspent by 1 million quid on players', but reality is we couldn't do that as, say, ten extra players at £100 million each would have astronomical wages that would mean immediate bankruptcy. Probably 10 extra players at £50 million each would also lead to bankruptcy for the same reasons so balancing the books is much more complicated than mere net spend.

[Steveo]

You seem to defend your most closely held tenets of footballing truth by these obfuscating means. I mean, if you were being critical of our owners, the same defence would be 'its difficult for anyone to say this latest starvation of the transfer fund is the result of .......... - insert as desired; FSG, the the American ownership model, exploitative capitalism'. You wouldn't stand for that.

At some point, the ownership model has an effect. (unless you don't think it does)

The effects at Barcelona are disatrous for their future prospects. The ownership model is fan ownership.

Nowhere did anyone say the behaviour and resulting situation at Barcelona applies to all fan owned clubs in all places. What I said was 'it's interesting that this is the result of the fans based model'. I don't know if that is your preferred model for LFC, but if it is, it is interesting that his kind of outcome is still possible under those circumstances isn't it?


I am telling it as it is unlike those who would try to paint black as white to suit an agenda.

You are on record multiple times for saying that the ownership model is overwhelmingly responsible for club success. Fine..

You could even point to Barcelona winning so much over the last 15 years - crediting the owners (in this case fan ownership) model at play.

Then problem then becomes HOW is such a model suddenly responsible for the last 3 seasons failures in the transfer market?

If you are to be taken seriously as a masterdebator - I believe you need to bridge these two opposing realities. :D

I have to say - the things you find interesting I find utterly mundane - borefest material...

[Kev0909]

Oh shit here we go agaaaaaaaaaaaaain.

I'd love a good read on the way home from work tonight ! Xxx

[Taksin]

Then problem then becomes HOW is such a model suddenly responsible for the last 3 seasons failures in the transfer market?



Who else is responsible for it?

If you want to say 'Bartomeu', then the next question is, who appointed him?

[Taksin]

I have to say - the things you find interesting I find utterly mundane - borefest material...

I don't believe you, here.

[redebreck]

Irrespective of who owns a football club, any club that goes for big-name signings, and the transfer costs and wages entailed, is going to struggle financially unless subsidised by the state.

[Taksin]

Irrespective of who owns a football club, any club that goes for big-name signings, and the transfer costs and wages entailed, is going to struggle financially unless subsidised by the state.

unless they can afford it.. but, yes, costs can become overwhelming.

I would have thought Barca fail the FFP rules on this basis. Does anyone know whether they have been pulled up over those rules?

[CCTV]

They've both got excellent trophy hauls of late, but it's difficult to compare. Bayern have infinitely better income/infrastructure than the other sides in their League, to the point where it's almost like comparing Celtic/Rangers to the other SPL sides.

Barcelona meanwhile have had (arguably) the best to ever do it on their books in recent years, having won one(?) European Cup prior to the 05/06 win over Arsenal if I recall correctly.

Bayern will be "up there" for the next 10-20 years unless something drastically changes. Barcelona on the other hand could go either way - they need very, very intelligent recruitment if they are to stabilise and not have a bit of a collapse, though we see the "bouncebackability" of club sides regularly in Football - ourselves being a good example, Man United are well improved after a few difficult years and AC Milan are finally getting somewhere, so to be fair there's no reason Barcelona can't, though moving Messi etc on would do them good long-term.

Celtic have rangers and vice versa, German league and French League are the least competitive of the top 5 leagues.

[CCTV]

As per Barca think only Umtiti has been a good signing since they signed Suarez.

They've lived off the legacy of the side put together by Pepsi.

It's been a badly run club for far longer than 3 seasons.

[Steveo]

As per Barca think only Umtiti has been a good signing since they signed Suarez.

They've lived off the legacy of the side put together by Pepsi.

It's been a badly run club for far longer than 3 seasons.

Agree since 2014 really. Obviously still won plenty due to legacy of amazing squad but it’s been downhill from there really - and since Neymar - it’s been a nose dive

[CCTV]

Agree since 2014 really. Obviously still won plenty due to legacy of amazing squad but it’s been downhill from there really - and since Neymar - it’s been a nose dive

Yup, they panicked big time trying to meet fans expectations in replacing Neymar.

That move really shook them and real, putting in massive buyout clauses and then paying for those clauses in wages.

City and PSG (Chelsea less so) really screwed their wage structures. Real have skirted it by having a net spend on transfers little more than Leeds over that timeframe roughly.
(Both less than lfc over the last 5-6 years)

[Steveo]

It screwed the entire market too.

We need this sodding FFP to actually count for something but this devil petrodollar seems to have power over everyone.

[eggy81]

This is getting ridiculous. Talk of other clubs chipping in to pay messi now. You can see why the esl was important now to Barca. It’s a shambles in Spain now

[ianlfc]

I heard they can't afford to pay his wages so are willing to offer him shares in the ownership of the club instead.

[Steveo]

Oh yes - and I am deeply worried for them as a going concern - honest. :D

[eggy81]

Oh yes - and I am deeply worried for them as a going concern - honest. :D

It beggars belief that some of the bigger non super clubs in Spain would be contemplating helping Barca to keep messi. Does ffp actually apply at all. The shit coming out of there they really should be in administration already. Looks like messi is not only bigger than Barca but bigger than la liga too. Koemans comments earlier were fucked up too.
He basically said that messi is the future of Barca and that everything should be done to keep him even docking other players.
I wonder did he say that to emphasise how fucked up it is and he actually thinks the opposite. He’s 34 ffs.

[Steveo]

You do realise administration for any club even half the size of us never mind Barca is an absolute fantasy.?

Pure paper talk - as with us it was spread by the banks to force a sale. Barca are absolutely fine and anyone daft enough to genuinely buy their dire straights story should be preserved in aspic and studied.

[eggy81]

You do realise administration for any club even half the size of us never mind Barca is an absolute fantasy.?

Pure paper talk - as with us it was spread by the banks to force a sale. Barca are absolutely fine and anyone daft enough to genuinely buy their dire straights story should be preserved in aspic and studied.
Nah. They’re in bother. They’ll get out of it yes. But they have really shit the bed.

[Steveo]

As I said I shudder with worry for them. :D

They are possibly facing some ramifications for being the livery for the failed Catalonia independence push but they should just about manage to survive.

Just.
:D :D

[Kev0909]

They should just let him go.... probably not good for financel stuff, but not just that the team spirit...

If ronaldo can leave real, i'm sure messi can leave barca.

Bring in the youth... get rid of the old players on silly wage.... do the sensibile thing, it's not rocket science, not like they've not got some amazing talented young players either, which they could sell once again if needed in a year or 2

[Insidious]

This is getting ridiculous. Talk of other clubs chipping in to pay messi now. You can see why the esl was important now to Barca. It’s a shambles in Spain now

I don't have the numbers, but it would be interesting to see the financial impact of what a Messi-less La Liga would look like in terms of reduced income via a reduction in TV figures etc.

The "star power" is fading a lot over there and it's no wonder Real Madrid would be so desperate to get someone like Haaland or Mbappe to secure the future a bit, or it will quickly become what happened to Serie A.

[eggy81]

They should just let him go.... probably not good for financel stuff, but not just that the team spirit...

If ronaldo can leave real, i'm sure messi can leave barca.

Bring in the youth... get rid of the old players on silly wage.... do the sensibile thing, it's not rocket science, not like they've not got some amazing talented young players either, which they could sell once again if needed in a year or 2

La liga themselves have involvement in this. He accounts for a massive portion of the whole league’s value in sponsorship so imagine how much of Barca he must be commanding. Hopefully they spend a few years in the doldrums now. Real too.

[eggy81]

As I said I shudder with worry for them. :D

They are possibly facing some ramifications for being the livery for the failed Catalonia independence push but they should just about manage to survive.

Just.
:D :D

It’s happened to big teams before the they’ve struggled financially for a while. I’m not suggesting they become Barcelona fc

[Taksin]

Leeds United were declared formally insolvent with debts of £30 million

[Taksin]

the scale of the mess is described well here


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnMD-6m4tzU

[Steveo]

So - what changed since 2015…?

https://hbr.org/2015/06/what-makes-fc-barcelona-such-a-successful-business

This certainly didn’t help.

https://www.goal.com/story/behind-the-barcelona-chaos-catalan-club-matters-beyond-football/

I am sure the resident experts on how to ‘run’ a club will have all the pertinent answers.

[miller0863]

No wonder Guardiola had absolutely no interest in going back there.

Be interesting if he did though, to see just how good he is when he isn’t in a position to hoover up all the best players in his own league and Europe’s elite.
He wouldn’t do it though.

[Steveo]

They are the national team and flag bearer of Catalonia (it’s failed independence attempt) and all the associated dread that holds for Spain and the EU. It’s quite obvious that their situation is far more complicated than some on here would have us believe.

[Insidious]

There are subtle intricacies to their issues, but it boils down to a couple of things really.

Loss of match day revenue during the Pandemic on a 99,000 seat stadium is an obvious one. But their museum generates over €50 million in revenue per year as well. Then their soccer schools generate over €15 million per year too and all their retail outlets. During the Pandemic the cash flow dried up.

Then their wage bill is beyond bloated. Messi is on €100 million per year which is absolutely nuts - we're talking about ten times Salah's wages there. Most football analysts will say that about 60% of revenue going to wages is a "high" but manageable/healthy level. In La Liga there's a salary cap, which is 70% by the League's rules. which has a salary cap, sets a maximum of 70% by league rules.

Barca have been in the habit of dabbling super close to 70% in "normal" circumstances, but with the sudden drop in revenue they're going to end up over threshold.

The question is, will La Liga do anything about it to punish them? One suspects not because Barca are deemed so commercially important to the League, but Real Madrid are unlikely to let that slide, so you never know.

Barca have managed to get roughly €80 million per year off of their salary bill, yet they are still projected to exceed the League's salary cap.

Should have sold Messi a few years ago as far as I'm concerned, not to mention that Griezmann, Coutinho and Dembele haven't been the most intelligent of purchases - and were with the aim of keeping the very man they have "over-built" around happy.

[Taksin]

So - what changed since 2015…?

https://hbr.org/2015/06/what-makes-fc-barcelona-such-a-successful-business

This certainly didn’t help.

https://www.goal.com/story/behind-the-barcelona-chaos-catalan-club-matters-beyond-football/

I am sure the resident experts on how to ‘run’ a club will have all the pertinent answers.

Perhaps the people who wrote the article about their success don’t understand economics and are unable to take a long term view?

What do you think has changed? I don’t think Grieznann was earning 800,000 euros a week in 2015

[Taksin]

They are the national team and flag bearer of Catalonia (it’s failed independence attempt) and all the associated dread that holds for Spain and the EU. It’s quite obvious that their situation is far more complicated than some on here would have us believe.

What would some on here have us believe? Has anyone said that their symbolic cultural status in Catalonia doesn't exist? Why not say what your analysis actually is, rather than making sideways snipes.

Their player wage bill is thought to be 110% of income. That is the result of decision making in the club hierarchy. It is going to cause them massive problems, verging on ruin. In what way is that untrue?

[Taksin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2U8hO9cPYQ

The French league clubs are now experiencing severe financial problems as a result of over ambitious investment and the arrival of Covid lockdowns

The clubs are £400 million down on last season

[justme]

Barca got to big for their boots, the way they acted over Coutinho was pathetic. Doing a mock up of him in a Barcelona shirt long before they got him. Turned out to be rotten egg :D in the end

[Steveo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2U8hO9cPYQ

The French league clubs are now experiencing severe financial problems as a result of over ambitious investment and the arrival of Covid lockdowns

The clubs are £400 million down on last season

Gosh - what will they do..?

Talk about ‘A year in the Merde” :D

[Taksin]

Gosh - what will they do..?

Talk about ‘A year in the Merde” :D

they will sell their best players because they can't afford them

[dicko1969]

What a mess!

Days have gone since they would dictate the market prices.
The arrogance of we are Barcelona so we set the price.

This mess is going to take probably at least 5for more years to resolve unless they go arab or chinese.

[dicko1969]

"Shifting the likes of Samuel Umtiti, Philippe Coutinho and Miralem Pjanic is suggested as a solution, but it cannot be ignored that Ousmane Dembele, Pedri, Ansu Fati and Ilaix Moriba are all into the final year of their contracts.

Barcelona cannot currently offer them new deals due to their predicament, and it is not out of the realm of possibility that they will be forced to sell at least one in order to avoid collapse."

Apparently cant even register

Aguero
Garcia
Depay !!

[Insidious]

Fati is a serious, serious talent.

[Steveo]

No need to talk about him like that though Sid

Big boned :D

[reddownunder]

Fati is a serious, serious talent.

As is Pedri.

They've really made a mess of things over there

[buck3y3nut]

As is Pedri.

They've really made a mess of things over there

Would love to have us have a go at Pedri. But sadly won't happen.

[teesred]

Fati is a serious, serious talent.

"You're the one for me Fati". Said Morrissey, an avid Barca fan.

[Steveo]

https://youtu.be/GFDzQD-LR80

[justme]

Theres a footballer out there called Thinny and hes the size of a barn door.

[Daffydd]

Tom?

[Insidious]

No need to talk about him like that though Sid

Big boned :D

"Broccoli is your enemy, your arteries are blocked from all the lard that's entering
Clogging entry, not receiving blood to your heart so technically
You keep scarfing that box of Jelly Beans, your cholesterol is in jeopardy
Doctor's gonna have to amputate your leg or your arm eventually"

[Steveo]

Don’t remind me - my wife is of Italian heritage - I have seen enough bloody broccoli to last a lifetime.

[Joetan991]

What a mess!

Days have gone since they would dictate the market prices.
The arrogance of we are Barcelona so we set the price.

This mess is going to take probably at least 5for more years to resolve unless they go arab or chinese.

Arab's spending is crazy but u r wrong about Chinese, they only do profitable business, I wonder what the hell those oil money, they are spending for fun, destroying the whole FFP system. But they fined them 30mil, this is a joke.

[Insidious]

Coutinho
Griezmann
Pedri
Fati
De Jong
Dembele
Aguero
Depay

If they're able to hang onto them all (Aguero wants out as he wanted to share a pitch with Messi) and they don't wilt, they should still be able to build a cohesive attacking unit. They certainly won't be any worse defensively.

It's funny though, looking at that list of players and still feeling they'll get spanked at some point in Europe. Individual talents are great and everything but having a TEAM is priceless. I wonder if Messi's departure may actually help bring some of these lads out of their shells?

[TheDOC1979]

Any chance their long stint without a shirt sponsor is biting them in the arse now?

[Insidious]

Any chance their long stint without a shirt sponsor is biting them in the arse now?

I'd fathom the £59m or so per year wages to Messi were a factor. You get different reports on the figures though.

[eggy81]

I'd fathom the £59m or so per year wages to Messi were a factor. You get different reports on the figures though.

Their wages are 95% of revenue without messi being counted. The problem is likes of griezman on 800k per week.

[Insidious]

Their wages are 95% of revenue without messi

Eeeeeeeeesh.

That's mental.

[eggy81]

Eeeeeeeeesh.

That's mental.

And losing messi removes 30% of their revenue. Their wages are currently 110% of revenue post Covid and their revenue is almost 500million less than a normal year because of Covid. So in essence as things stand right now losing messi is actually terrible for them taken as a net calculation

[Insidious]

as things stand right now losing messi is actually terrible for them taken as a net calculation

Mes que un disastrophe.

[eggy81]

Mes que un disastrophe.

Ha ha. Facts. Losing neymar and real winning this champions leagues seemed to really get in their heads. I’ve read a lot of stuff about this and some of the financial deals they’ve done are just gobsmacking for average enough players.

[eggy81]

I’ve long since lost what was a big admiration for them. Fuck em.

[Insidious]

I’ve long since lost what was a big admiration for them. Fuck em.

4 of their 5 European Cup wins have been won during the Messi years.

Think they're pretty spent as a trophy hoover. They'll still win things but their succession planning has been dreadful.

Which is great. As they are immensely dislikeable these days.

[eggy81]

Florentino and agnialli arrive in Barcelona. Twitter chat suggest more massive news coming soon regarding super leagues and the like. Huge financial package to be offered to premier league teams. Only a matter of time with how city Chelsea and PSG are being allowed do their own thing that us and others take matters into our own hands.

[Kev0909]

At least barca have some good youngsters, they'll sort it out eventually.

Probably still win more than us in the next 5 years that's for sure.

[Steveo]

4 of their 5 European Cup wins have been won during the Messi years.

Think they're pretty spent as a trophy hoover. They'll still win things but their succession planning has been dreadful.

Which is great. As they are immensely dislikeable these days.

That’s a hugely misleading stat often trotted out by younger fans who don’t know their football history.

Messi barely kicked a ball in his first CL winning season amd they had been arguably the best side in Europe for a while before that.

Barca are a huge club - super mahusive and were so eons before Messi was born. Often known as perennial underachieving as they had so many great sides but just the one European Cup. This thread is exposing much ignorance.

Speak to anyone who is Spanish or who has lived in Spain or almost anyone from South America and you will get it.

Also great teams are built by great managers - not by data analytics.

We lose the big man and our model is more flawed than Barca’s - who are almost certainly paying for the failed Catalan independence push.

[eggy81]

That’s a hugely misleading stat often trotted out by younger fans who don’t know their football history.

Messi barely kicked a ball in his first CL winning season amd they had been arguably the best side in Europe for a while before that.

Barca are a huge club… This thread is exposing much ignorance

What sort of ignorance. Have people said they’re not a huge club?

[Steveo]

What sort of ignorance. Have people said they’re not a huge club?

Just read what was above my post and maybe you can fathom it…?

Barcelona are far more than just a major successful club during Messi years.

Some of you talk and talk and talk - like Tuco said - BUT you need an education first.

[eggy81]

He said 4 of their 5 European cups were win during the years messi was at the club.

Nothing was said about them not being a big club. Nada. Tbf the first of that 4 had nothing to do with messi. They’ve lost the plot under bartomue leadership. Their own fans are calling for him to be arrested. The point about the planning is correct. Covid has just accelerated the impact of that bad planning. They’ll still be strong and will rebuild to a position of strength within a few years. No one is disputing that.

[Steveo]

Listen… it’s crap talk like this that means many just don’t bother with this joke of a forum anymore.

Go think about it

[Steveo]

Read the post - and see if you can spot it. Not just the 4 in 5 wins ( completely forgetting all their other near misses and incredible teams ) but the hoovering up trophies nonsense. Barca will always win trophies - they always have. It’s not just since Messi.

They are in deep deep doo doo right now but nobody seems to be able to join the dots. They will be just fine in the long term - I don’t feel that wag about us.

Sid is a big lad - can defend himself - sounds like he has never witnessed a live game mind yet thinks he is an expert.

Sorry but this is for children

[eggy81]

Read the post - and see if you can spot it. Not just the 4 in 5 wins ( completely forgetting all their other near misses and incredible teams ) but the hoovering up trophies nonsense. Barca will always win trophies - they always have. It’s not just since Messi.

They are in deep deep doo doo right now but nobody seems to be able to join the dots. They will be just fine in the long term - I don’t feel that wag about us.

Sid is a big lad - can defend himself - sounds like he has never witnessed a live game mind yet thinks he is an expert.

Sorry but this is for children

You’re on the liquor early again. Nice.

[justme]

At least barca have some good youngsters, they'll sort it out eventually.

Probably still win more than us in the next 5 years that's for sure.
would they win the league in England with their current squad? i doubt they'd win in , in the next 5 years

[Steveo]

You’re on the liquor early again. Nice.

Not here in sunny Croatia - it’s 32 degrees C and nearly 6. But I ain’t on any juice just yet.

Shouldn’t you go play tiddlywinks with your fwend? :D

Both this and the demise of United thread are a pair of:


https://youtu.be/eEnoLug1Izo

[eggy81]

Not here in sunny Croatia - it’s 32 degrees C and nearly 6. But I ain’t on any juice just yet.

Shouldn’t you go play tiddlywinks with your fwend? :D

Both this and the demise of United thread are a pair of:


https://youtu.be/eEnoLug1Izo

Ya on the holliers.

[miller0863]

Two things Steveo mate, firstly far from a kiddy, I’m probably old enough to be your father and secondly I’d wager I have been to way more live games than yourself.

So yeah, really valid points, as is your apparent position of complete denial as to the current appalling state of Barcelona football club.
Enjoy your jollies.

[Insidious]

Read the post - and see if you can spot it. Not just the 4 in 5 wins ( completely forgetting all their other near misses and incredible teams ) but the hoovering up trophies nonsense. Barca will always win trophies - they always have. It’s not just since Messi.

They are in deep deep doo doo right now but nobody seems to be able to join the dots. They will be just fine in the long term - I don’t feel that wag about us.

Sid is a big lad - can defend himself - sounds like he has never witnessed a live game mind yet thinks he is an expert.

Sorry but this is for children



4 of their 5 European Cup wins have been won during the Messi years.

Think they're pretty spent as a trophy hoover. They'll still win things but their succession planning has been dreadful.

Which is great. As they are immensely dislikeable these days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9RAZxNdCk8

:wink:

[Crimson Dynasty]

He said 4 of their 5 European cups were win during the years messi was at the club.

Nothing was said about them not being a big club. Nada. Tbf the first of that 4 had nothing to do with messi. They’ve lost the plot under bartomue leadership. Their own fans are calling for him to be arrested. The point about the planning is correct. Covid has just accelerated the impact of that bad planning. They’ll still be strong and will rebuild to a position of strength within a few years. No one is disputing that.


There's no doubting that Barca will be back to winning ways in some time in the future.

Whether that's 'near' future or some time in the 'future' future remains the question and I'm not as convinced as many on here that it will be as straightforward or easy (or quick) as all that.

I'd like to draw a parallel to something closer to home.

Everyone thought that when Ferguson left, the Mancs would soon quickly be back to winning ways and dominating the league and picking off trophies all over the place.
And sure enough after some bumps (Moyes) it seemed like that was the case.
But even after a couple of big-name managers to take the helm there (Van Gaal, Mourinho) they still seem nowhere close to that dominating team of the mid-to-late 90's and the 'aughts.

At this point, Manchester United are 'big club' mostly based on reputation and brand-name rather than actually being a dominating big club.
They're the club that used to run the roost in England and Europe, and that's really the selling point and reason people still go to play for them.

No one goes there to play for Ole.
No one's going there to play with Rashford or Lingard.
Even Pogba is wanting out at this stage

Will they be back to winning ways sometime soon? I don't doubt it. But hopefully not before we've sorted out issues out.

Barca are in much the same boat.
Before Messi, they DID have a footballing identity and reputation and reason whey people went to play there.
And even though during the Messi years, that identity became intertwined with his abilities and his legend, there was still a pure footballing reason and draw for why people wanted to go play there.

Now with Messi leaving, and with most of the custodians of that footballing style of Barca of old all gone, I guess we could say people still want to go there because of its reputation and......the great weather?
I don't really believe people are going there wanting to play for former Everton manager Ronald Koeman.
Even the fans there are no fans of his (despite being a club legend for them), and would have preferred Xavi.
You're certainly not going there to play for a big paycheck, with their current circumstances.

And if Atletico managed to cement their status as Real's primary challengers (despite themselves being the defending champions) this coming season and essentially supplant Barca from that role, then I think Barca's own climb back to relevance in a post-Messi world will be much harder and take much longer than people anticipate.

They're still an attractive destination for players.
The question is it just because of their reputation and past glories, rather than as a real chance at winning things?
(See : Manchester United)

Part of the whole irony of the Messi situation (or the messy situation) that they find themselves in, is because they were unable to move two players in Griezmann and Coutinho, to make the numbers work, and allow them to make Messi's new contract work.
Two players whose own journey to Barcelona epitomizes why other clubs hate them so much (for how they got those players to come to them), and two players for whom because they were unable to play with Messi or in a system designed for him and his abilities, are now a large part of the reason for their current predicament,.....and two players they seem stuck with for the foreseeable future while their club legend is forced to leave and they find themselves in a financial mess.

And they say karma isn't real.

[Steveo]

Two things Steveo mate, firstly far from a kiddy, I’m probably old enough to be your father and secondly I’d wager I have been to way more live games than yourself.

So yeah, really valid points, as is your apparent position of complete denial as to the current appalling state of Barcelona football club.
Enjoy your jollies.

A father at 10…? That’s stretching a point beyond breaking. :D

I don’t have any denial on Barca but plenty on here are talking bollox about them and clearly know nothing of their history:


The entire intonation of Sids statement is wrong for me. It implies that only due to Messi were Barcelona hooovering up titles which again is totally false. They have had periods of sustained success many times before but they never had a period with a group who were also the backbone of Spain’s only ever international world dominance - minus Messi and based around Xavi - Iniesta & Busquets - not to mention Puyol and Pique.

The fact is even with Messi in recent years and minus Xavi/Iniesta they have been below many other Barca teams in terms of trophy output - resorting to ever more desperate means to rediscover that dynamic creative magic.

It is over simplistic to label their super success period as “the Messi years”… They are the years after Rikjaard built a monster side with incredible youth development brilliantly combined with world class talent like Ronaldinho. There is so much more than simply labelling them the Messi years.

To my eye - this entire thread is nothing more than a cheap shot at one of the worlds great clubs and a football rival, mainly worded by those who are jealous ( understandable ) of Barca OR those who can’t accept our own seemingly swift derailment as the team so well on the tracks that it took 97 points and won a CL in 2019.

It’s as if by gloating over Barca’s current woes we somehow make our own slide more palatable.

We have won 2 titles - get a fecking grip. 2 titles with the best manager in the world in place for years and we are gloating or lamenting over Barca’s seeming demise.

For those who don’t know what the fuck they are talking about - this is a decent read about the embryonic stages of one of the greatest club sides ever assembled.

https://www.elartedf.com/rijkaard-barcelona-unsung-hero/

[Steveo]

:wink:

Sorry Sid but you have exposed your lack of knowledge big time

[Insidious]

Sorry Sid but you have exposed your lack of knowledge big time

Whatever you say Steveo.

[Steveo]

No offence mate but you do well to do some reading on the Great Barcelona

[Insidious]

No offence mate but you do well to do some reading on the Great Barcelona

I never said they were shite though, nor attempted to imply it.

My post quite literally says "they'll still win things" which you have chosen to ignore. I don't see them "hoovering" trophies as I put it though.

They've won 92(?) trophies in their history and 34(?) of those are during the Messi years.

For me, as pointed out by another forum user, it's a bit like Man United. Still a big club. Will still win things. But not (in United's case) at the same rate as during the Fergie years and not (in Barca's case) the same as the Messi years.

[teesred]

A father at 10…? That’s stretching a point beyond breaking. :D

I don’t have any denial on Barca but plenty on here are talking bollox about them and clearly know nothing of their history:


The entire intonation of Sids statement is wrong for me. It implies that only due to Messi were Barcelona hooovering up titles which again is totally false. They have had periods of sustained success many times before but they never had a period with a group who were also the backbone of Spain’s only ever international world dominance - minus Messi and based around Xavi - Iniesta & Busquets - not to mention Puyol and Pique.

The fact is even with Messi in recent years and minus Xavi/Iniesta they have been below many other Barca teams in terms of trophy output - resorting to ever more desperate means to rediscover that dynamic creative magic.

It is over simplistic to label their super success period as “the Messi years”… They are the years after Rikjaard built a monster side with incredible youth development brilliantly combined with world class talent like Ronaldinho. There is so much more than simply labelling them the Messi years.

To my eye - this entire thread is nothing more than a cheap shot at one of the worlds great clubs and a football rival, mainly worded by those who are jealous ( understandable ) of Barca OR those who can’t accept our own seemingly swift derailment as the team so well on the tracks that it took 97 points and won a CL in 2019.

It’s as if by gloating over Barca’s current woes we somehow make our own slide more palatable.

We have won 2 titles - get a fecking grip. 2 titles with the best manager in the world in place for years and we are gloating or lamenting over Barca’s seeming demise.

For those who don’t know what the fuck they are talking about - this is a decent read about the embryonic stages of one of the greatest club sides ever assembled.

https://www.elartedf.com/rijkaard-barcelona-unsung-hero/

I think the gloating comes from them taking a few of our players and acting in a shithouse manner to get them.
Agree fully about Rijkaard. I've said that myself before when people like to big up Guardiola as the architect at Barca during that era. Even Van Gaal takes some credit too as some of the players and ways were implemented during his tenure.

[fiordearg]

Don't know if anyone read this link
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/how-fc-barcelona-blew-a-fortune-and-got-worse-1.4640594

[fiordearg]

Anyone questioning FSGs financial prudence may look at other club's problems

[ianlfc]

Tears from Messi saying he done all he could to stay even cutting his wages to 250 grand a week. But it still wasn't enough.
He could've played for free though ,seeing he loved the club and on its arse at the minute.
So it's off to Paris with his mates in Qatar.
Personally I think it stinks to high hell of greed.

[redebreck]

Don't know if anyone read this link
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/how-fc-barcelona-blew-a-fortune-and-got-worse-1.4640594

One passage in that article:
"(La Liga rules) Directors had to repay losses out of their own pockets".
Maybe that explains FSG's attitude to us.

[eggy81]

Tears from Messi saying he done all he could to stay even cutting his wages to 250 grand a week. But it still wasn't enough.
He could've played for free though ,seeing he loved the club and on its arse at the minute.
So it's off to Paris with his mates in Qatar.
Personally I think it stinks to high hell of greed.

Far more to it than that
It’s all about esl in the near future

[Insidious]

Wonder if they'll be renting out the Eiffel Tower to announce him.

[TheDOC1979]

Barcelona lawyers file a law suit against PSG for trying to sign Messi, stating a breach of FFP. What? So if they can’t have him, no one can? What is this joke of an industry

[miller0863]

Aguero will be out for ten weeks with a calf injury.
Ah dear .. fuck ‘em.

[eggy81]

Barcelona lawyers file a law suit against PSG for trying to sign Messi, stating a breach of FFP. What? So if they can’t have him, no one can? What is this joke of an industry

Where is that news coming from.

[TheDOC1979]

Where is that news coming from.

Sky sports and Twitter

[fiordearg]

Aguero will be out for ten weeks with a calf injury.
Ah dear .. fuck ‘em.

"Calf injury"

[fiordearg]

We can now see why the big super clubs outside of oil clubs wanted a super league

[Steveo]

We can now see why the big super clubs outside of oil clubs wanted a super league

If you can only see it now - I suggest you are a bit slow.

Bugger me - the Emerald Isle seems to have become a breeding ground for some supercharged Uber capitalist thundercuntism.

Shankly would disown the lot of you.

[darrenpotter]

If you can only see it now - I suggest you are a bit slow.

Bugger me - the Emerald Isle seems to have become a breeding ground for some supercharged Uber capitalist thundercuntism.

Shankly would disown the lot of you.

Lovely you pig ignorant racist cunt.

[CCTV]

If you can only see it now - I suggest you are a bit slow.

Bugger me - the Emerald Isle seems to have become a breeding ground for some supercharged Uber capitalist thundercuntism.

Shankly would disown the lot of you.

Do you ever get confused as to which one of ye is Shankly ?

[CCTV]

Lovely you pig ignorant racist cunt.

Iirc steveo is some part Irish. He just likes to prod a little in jest.

[Steveo]

Lovely you pig ignorant racist cunt.

Shut the feck up you twat! :D Clearly you are as thick as pig shit and don’t even understand the difference between a country/nation and a race.

Since when were the Irish a race? I would be one of them either way…

Is an Italian a separate race from a Frenchman or even an Irishman.? Take your fake offended BS and vanish.

Darrenpotter no less - you sound like a failed character from Eastenders.

Wow - this is the problem with one man one vote.

For the Record - I have ( or had) 2 Irish grandparents and love the country but am ashamed at what it has become.

[darrenpotter]

Shut the feck up you twat! :D Clearly you are as thick as pig shit and don’t even understand the difference between a country/nation and a race.

Since when were the Irish a race? I would be one of them either way…

Is an Italian a separate race from a Frenchman or even an Irishman.? Take your fake offended BS and vanish.

Darrenpotter no less - you sound like a failed character from Eastenders.

Wow - this is the problem with one man one vote.

For the Record - I have ( or had) 2 Irish grandparents and love the country but am ashamed at what it has become.

Good to see you a compliant proud boris brit then. Clown.

[Steveo]

Good to see you a compliant proud boris brit then. Clown.

Go learn about the races of man ( that’s mankind - not being anti woman btw :D )

Until then - Zip it twat features.

[Steveo]

And again darrenpotter - you have comprehensively grabbed the wrong end of the stick. I loathe so much about modern day Britain and the only thing I would give Bojo is a Kirkby kiss!

[Steveo]

Iirc steveo is some part Irish. He just likes to prod a little in jest.

Correct on my ancestry. But I was being deadly serious.

Seems to be a high percentage of younger Irish people who are happy to fall inline with US styled monopoly capitalism.

I think this follows through to football and leads a few to try the impossible and attempt to justify the role our club played in the ESL!

[darrenpotter]

And again darrenpotter - you have comprehensively grabbed the wrong end of the stick. I loathe so much about modern day Britain and the only thing I would give Bojo is a Kirkby kiss!
Loathe so much but spread the anti irish bile which has been commonplace to irish in england since i was on sites 30 odd years ago.
Would love to put you into some of belfasts finer hostelries to see you shit yourself you fucking weasel.

[Steveo]

Loathe so much but spread the anti irish bile which has been commonplace to irish in england since i was on sites 30 odd years ago.
Would love to put you into some of belfasts finer hostelries to see you shit yourself you fucking weasel.

I have been in far worse places you twit. You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. Try Sarajevo and Mostar when 3 sides are ripping each other to bits. Just zip it!

Oh and stop trying to label someone who loves Ireland and is half Irish as anti Irish - you just look more of a fool than you already do:

You are clearly too thick to converse with.

So fuck off

[darrenpotter]

I have been in far worse places you twit. You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. Try Sarajevo and Mostar when 3 sides are ripping each other to bits. Just zip it!

Oh and stop trying to label someone who loves Ireland and is half Irish as anti Irish - you just look more of a fool than you already do:

You are clearly too thick to converse with.

So fuck off

Thats a pathetic back track even for a rat like you. You've been called out get over it you fucking low life

[eggy81]

Correct on my ancestry. But I was being deadly serious.

Seems to be a high percentage of younger Irish people who are happy to fall inline with US styled monopoly capitalism.

I think this follows through to football and leads a few to try the impossible and attempt to justify the role our club played in the ESL!

I think we’ve been that way for a very long time to be honest. Very little push back in Ireland against anything that’s foisted on us by the two main parties.
You should see the blowback you get on Irish forums for daring to suggest anything was wrong with how Covid was dealt with etc. Fucking hell.

[Steveo]

Thats a pathetic back track even for a rat like you. You've been called out get over it you fucking low life

Some quality posts from the total thicko.

Enjoy your ignorance

[Steveo]

Here’s some more “anti Irish bile”

It touches on what I have been saying.

Acceptance of greed is becoming the norm.

Economic growth, capitalism and greed
Madam, - The Central Statistics Office has projected that this State will need approximately 45,000 immigrant workers each year…
Wed, Dec 22, 2004, 00:00
Madam, - The Central Statistics Office has projected that this State will need approximately 45,000 immigrant workers each year for the next 12 years to maintain a 3 to 5 per cent economic growth rate. Needless to say, this forecast was welcomed by the business sector.
Why do we need this rate of growth and, more importantly, who would benefit from such growth? Nobody can deny that the recent economic expansion has brought real benefits to a large number of Irish people and has been embraced without criticism by almost all the political establishment and the vast bulk of the trade union leadership.
However, such an approach to economic development has its drawbacks. Currently, 37 per cent of our workforce is engaged in the low-wage sector of the economy and we have over 4 per cent unemployment. This sector of the economy includes large numbers of immigrant workers. So does the black economy, for which no accurate figures are to hand. The CSO seems to suggest that we continue to trundle down this road of cheap non-union labour, resulting in long work hours, short holidays or none, and a growing gap between rich and poor. In other words, we should continue to hitch our economic wagon to the US system of monopoly capitalism.
All that this policy will achieve is to allow the wealthy to use their increased profits to further their political influence and to use this influence in the political establishments of Europe so that all aspects of society can be reduced to economy for economy's sake. It takes no account of our quality of life as Irish citizens and how it affects us as a small, indigenous population on a small island. It takes no account of anything but aimless, unplanned greed. - Yours, etc.,
SIMON O'DONNELL, Church Place, Rathmines, Dublin 6.



https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/saoirse-mchugh-column-capitalism-4884073-Nov2019/

[Taksin]

[QUOTE=Steveo;2713461]
Why do we need this rate of growth and, more importantly, who would benefit from such growth?
[QUOTE]


We need that level of growth to inflate away the debts that are accrued exponentially by successive generations of over-spending governments. That’s the model. The quantitive easing that is the endgame of this model of governance is the thing that exacerbates the gap between rich and poor. It’s called the Cantillon effect. Cantillon, ironically, was an Irish economist who saw how central banks created the wealthy class at the expense of ordinary workers.

But the great socialist sons of Shankly like you keep telling us that going into massive debt is absolutely fine and in fact the measure of our humanity. And then we have to be patronised and insulted by you along the way for daring to point out the flaws in your over-confident formulations.

[justme]

I thought this thread was about Barcelona not the Irish political system? Think of poor little Messi crying.

[Steveo]

I thought this thread was about Barcelona not the Irish political system? Think of poor little Messi crying.

You make a fair point.

@Taksin - I am not calling for debt. Think we can all agree it isn’t a good idea. Just more impetus and a stronger desire to grab the bull by the horns and go for it while Klopp is here. I don’t want us to overspend and blow it all on overpriced primadonnas - but think we are well short now.

[darrenpotter]

Here’s some more “anti Irish bile”

It touches on what I have been saying.

Acceptance of greed is becoming the norm.

Economic growth, capitalism and greed
Madam, - The Central Statistics Office has projected that this State will need approximately 45,000 immigrant workers each year…
Wed, Dec 22, 2004, 00:00
Madam, - The Central Statistics Office has projected that this State will need approximately 45,000 immigrant workers each year for the next 12 years to maintain a 3 to 5 per cent economic growth rate. Needless to say, this forecast was welcomed by the business sector.
Why do we need this rate of growth and, more importantly, who would benefit from such growth? Nobody can deny that the recent economic expansion has brought real benefits to a large number of Irish people and has been embraced without criticism by almost all the political establishment and the vast bulk of the trade union leadership.
However, such an approach to economic development has its drawbacks. Currently, 37 per cent of our workforce is engaged in the low-wage sector of the economy and we have over 4 per cent unemployment. This sector of the economy includes large numbers of immigrant workers. So does the black economy, for which no accurate figures are to hand. The CSO seems to suggest that we continue to trundle down this road of cheap non-union labour, resulting in long work hours, short holidays or none, and a growing gap between rich and poor. In other words, we should continue to hitch our economic wagon to the US system of monopoly capitalism.
All that this policy will achieve is to allow the wealthy to use their increased profits to further their political influence and to use this influence in the political establishments of Europe so that all aspects of society can be reduced to economy for economy's sake. It takes no account of our quality of life as Irish citizens and how it affects us as a small, indigenous population on a small island. It takes no account of anything but aimless, unplanned greed. - Yours, etc.,
SIMON O'DONNELL, Church Place, Rathmines, Dublin 6.



https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/saoirse-mchugh-column-capitalism-4884073-Nov2019/
Posting a rant by a serial media letter writer and card carrying shinner does absolutely nothing for your argument. Try again shankly wannabe.

[ianlfc]

Loathe so much but spread the anti irish bile which has been commonplace to irish in england since i was on sites 30 odd years ago.
Would love to put you into some of belfasts finer hostelries to see you shit yourself you fucking weasel.

Belfast is British not Irish 😂😂😂

[Steveo]

Posting a rant by a serial media letter writer and card carrying shinner does absolutely nothing for your argument. Try again shankly wannabe.

So you don’t believe he made any salient points that turned out to be prophetic?


I suggest you read the link too which is far more recent and looks at the same issue from another angle.

Or are you just determined to have a fight?

Shankly wannabe? Happy to take that moniker.

It’s clear what you are…

[redebreck]

Calm down ffs

[miller0863]

Aye, take it outside lads via PM’s. Then feel free to crack on to your hearts content

[miller0863]

Apparently Messi feels betrayed by Barcelona.
Gotta feel for the guy and that poultry €700,000 net per week, tear stained contract he’s just signed at PSG

€35m after tax per annum.

The poor little mite.

[teesred]

Betrayed by the club hes pretty much left bankrupt.

[ianlfc]

Apparently Messi feels betrayed by Barcelona.
Gotta feel for the guy and that poultry €700,000 net per week, tear stained contract he’s just signed at PSG

€35m after tax per annum.

The poor little mite.

He bled Barca dry now he's onto PSG for big lift.

[ianlfc]

Betrayed by the club hes pretty much left bankrupt.

You as well then mate.

[reddownunder]

Apparently Messi feels betrayed by Barcelona.
Gotta feel for the guy and that poultry €700,000 net per week, tear stained contract he’s just signed at PSG

€35m after tax per annum.

The poor little mite.

Yep he's really flown the coop

[Taksin]

Looks like Gini Wjinjaldum may have made the right choice avoiding Barca

[justme]

Looks like Gini Wjinjaldum may have made the right choice avoiding Barca
He wouldnt have got the 300 thousand a week hes on now..

[Steveo]

But that’s justification for some sadly.

Chance to play for no mark PSG or one of the worlds great clubs…? Naah let’s take the dosh.. Well done that man.

Love Gini to bits but in all honesty he isn’t going to own the middle of the pitch at Camp Nou - you have to be pretty special to do that.

[TheDOC1979]

Apparently Messi feels betrayed by Barcelona.
Gotta feel for the guy and that poultry €700,000 net per week, tear stained contract he’s just signed at PSG

€35m after tax per annum.

The poor little mite.

Didn’t he want to piss off the season before last?

[Taksin]

I’m sure he’ll have fun threading balls through to Neymar, Messi and Mbappe

[LEGS]

Didn’t he want to piss off the season before last?

He did but I think the president wasnt liked much.

I mean he pretty much slagged off the whole team on Spanish radio and reports say Messi asked him to name the players in public then....I think Messi was saying he was being blamed.

End of the day its never the players fault to take the money on offer its the idiots in suits who wrote the pay cheques.

They signed 3 players over £100m and they have all flopped.

[Insidious]

Belfast is British not Irish 😂😂😂

I once saw "one of themmunz" argue online that the reason it was called Belfast was because "Billy's horse was called Belle...and she was fast" - the lad wasn't even kidding.

It's scary the level of derp that's out there.

[TheDOC1979]

1.15b in debt according to Barcelona’s president.

But, they’re interested in signing Aubameyang …

Could be worth having a look at their players and putting in some cheeky bids

[miller0863]

Pedri is their best asset but no way they’ll let him go.

[TheDOC1979]

Pedri is their best asset but no way they’ll let him go.

Aye. He was class and one of the players that really stood out in the Euros

[Insidious]

Didn't have to sell Pedri or Fati.

Considering the absolute state of their situation, that transfer window could have gone a lot worse.

[Taksin]

I’d imagine the hierarchy will be reflecting that the unthinkable transfer that happened this summer suddenly looks quite thinkable and is probably the best first move the club could have possibly made in order to deal with their problems. Sometimes the right decision is the hardest one to take

[southernboy]

Interesting article:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58643421

For all our perceived problems, it's nice to be supporting a well run club.

[Taksin]

Interesting article:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58643421

For all our perceived problems, it's nice to be supporting a well run club.

sarcasm like that won't be tolerated here, SB

[Steveo]

https://youtu.be/-7ehhoj_SV4

Sarcasm…? What sarcasm.. :D :D


Oh…and :D

[CCTV]

https://youtu.be/-7ehhoj_SV4

Sarcasm…? What sarcasm.. :D :D


Oh…and :D

More like cowardice imo and appeasing the disgruntled.

[Steveo]

Most die-hard Liverpool fans in fairness.

[Taksin]

another set back last night

[justme]

Barca are expected to play like they use to. You really need the players to play that way..They simply dont have them. Its asking for trouble if you try and press the ball in the oppositions half and you lose possession. Your team will get mullered on the counter attack. And with Barca losing their fear.Teams arent afraid of beating them anymore.

[Steveo]

Yep 60% possession away from home and 1 single shot on goal..!!

Admiration for trying to play the right way but he will need time to make it work and it isn't a club associated with giving managers time.

[TheDOC1979]

Thinks it’s the demise of La liga in general. Bail out incoming

[Insidious]

Thinks it’s the demise of La liga in general. Bail out incoming

Hope not.

The larger clubs don't deserve a bail-out for being idiots with their money. Sends the wrong message at all levels of the game.

[TheDOC1979]

Hope not.

The larger clubs don't deserve a bail-out for being idiots with their money. Sends the wrong message at all levels of the game.

You’d think not Sid, but something tells me it’s going to happen.

[redebreck]

The Mail (????) are reporting that Barcelona are considering making an offer for our Jürgen to take over from Koeman.

[miller0863]

Hahaha.. yeah he’s going, bet he’s packing his suitcase and cancelling the milk at this very moment.

[CCTV]

Hahaha.. yeah he’s going, bet he’s packing his suitcase and cancelling the milk at this very moment.

I'm sure barca can afford some milk, though I can't blame Jurgen the old uht milk is crap.

[CCTV]

Thanks for the memories Jurgen 🤗👏

[justme]

Another loss! long may it continue

[Steveo]

71% possession and this time a total of 2 shots on target.

Selling Suárez to Atletico was a masterstroke

[miller0863]

Think they needed to get him off the wage bill.

[Steveo]

Yep dire straights - but direct to such a domestic rival must make it hurt so much more. .

Almost feel sorry for them… Almost

[LEGS]

They signed three players over £100m none of them were/have been a success.

That is what can happen even when you spend £350m plus and get it wrong.

[eggy81]

Luis is still a beast