Subjective/subjectivity

[Nineteenx]

1.
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

Sorry, commentators and the kind of dim wits who lap up all the media adverse CBT bullshit the purpose of which is to normalise things we should all find completely unacceptable can go boil their heads

Subjective or subjectivity is not applicable to so many of the situations and decisions it is being used as an excuse for and the definition of the word itself can readily be translated as giving decisions for or against teams based on or influenced by your personal feelings, tastes, or opinions, or in other words bias

[ianlfc]

So you finally agree Fabinho is our best midfielder. It took a while but you got there in the end.

[teesred]

1.
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

Sorry, commentators and the kind of dim wits who lap up all the media adverse CBT bullshit the purpose of which is to normalise things we should all find completely unacceptable can go boil their heads

Subjective or subjectivity is not applicable to so many of the situations and decisions it is being used as an excuse for and the definition of the word itself can readily be translated as giving decisions for or against teams based on or influenced by your personal feelings, tastes, or opinions, or in other words bias

No wonder every other set of fans likes to laugh at us and sticks the boot in.
Go back to last season and see how many decisions went in our favour. Nobody was complaining about refs or VAR then. We have had some go against us but like injuries so has every other team.
It just makes you sound bitter and delusional. We are where we are. Theres 3 instances where we've been robbed. Yesterday on the first goal,Everton and Brighton. So that 4 or possibly 6/7 points. Other teams can more than likely say the same. We robbed Fulham of 2 points getting a penalty that shouldn't have been given.
VAR and refs have nothing to do with how this team is currently performing.

[eggy81]

No wonder every other set of fans likes to laugh at us and sticks the boot in.
Go back to last season and see how many decisions went in our favour. Nobody was complaining about refs or VAR then. We have had some go against us but like injuries so has every other team.
It just makes you sound bitter and delusional. We are where we are. Theres 3 instances where we've been robbed. Yesterday on the first goal,Everton and Brighton. So that 4 or possibly 6/7 points. Other teams can more than likely say the same. We robbed Fulham of 2 points getting a penalty that shouldn't have been given.
VAR and refs have nothing to do with how this team is currently performing.

I do think we get reffed differently in all the little decisions in games too which don’t provide match changing moments but add an uphill struggle to our games. Not all games mind but there’s games where we literally get nothing that isn’t blatant and the opposition get frees for tiny touches or hands on shoulders. Look what salah is subjected to every week without getting frees. Don’t believe in any conspiracy type stuff but there’s definitely some sort of bias in some of our games

[teesred]

I do think we get reffed differently in all the little decisions in games too which don’t provide match changing moments but add an uphill struggle to our games. Not all games mind but there’s games where we literally get nothing that isn’t blatant and the opposition get frees for tiny touches or hands on shoulders. Look what salah is subjected to every week without getting frees. Don’t believe in any conspiracy type stuff but there’s definitely some sort of bias in some of our games

Salah and Mane both have a rep for going down easily, that goes against them for sure.
All teams could alledge to being hard done by , its part and parcel of the game tye same as injuries are and I think as a group we are starting to sound a bit pathetic moaning about it. Weve had some bad luck with injuries but we should acknowledge the good luck we have had the few seasons prior to that whilst other sides have had injuries to key players.

Its detracting from the real issues. Like you said on another thread we dominate teams most games, its just we are not creating anything at all. Aside from a moment of brilliance from Salah yesterday we never looked like scoring despite our dominance of posession.

[skyebo]

No wonder every other set of fans likes to laugh at us and sticks the boot in.
Go back to last season and see how many decisions went in our favour. Nobody was complaining about refs or VAR then. We have had some go against us but like injuries so has every other team.
It just makes you sound bitter and delusional. We are where we are. Theres 3 instances where we've been robbed. Yesterday on the first goal,Everton and Brighton. So that 4 or possibly 6/7 points. Other teams can more than likely say the same. We robbed Fulham of 2 points getting a penalty that shouldn't have been given.
VAR and refs have nothing to do with how this team is currently performing.

Good post Tees.

[eggy81]

Salah and Mane both have a rep for going down easily, that goes against them for sure.
All teams could alledge to being hard done by , its part and parcel of the game tye same as injuries are and I think as a group we are starting to sound a bit pathetic moaning about it. Weve had some bad luck with injuries but we should acknowledge the good luck we have had the few seasons prior to that whilst other sides have had injuries to key players.

Its detracting from the real issues. Like you said on another thread we dominate teams most games, its just we are not creating anything at all. Aside from a moment of brilliance from Salah yesterday we never looked like scoring despite our dominance of posession.

Yep in fairness I do agree. Our own failings are causing us to magnify the reffing decisions that go against us because they are impacting games more and more because A. We can’t score and B. We can’t defend. Not a very good combination to try defend a league title with.

[southernboy]

Go on the forum of any struggling team (Arsenal and Spurs spring to mind) and you’ll find fans complaining about how badly they’re treated by VAR and referees in general. It’s human nature.

[jinky]

Reality check needed. I think we've been getting a lot out of a little. Since last season restart we've not played well. Eventually you have to reset what playing well is. Can we play well?
Good teams put defenders under pressure. Eventually mistakes come and goals follow. Too often we're involved in an opposition defensive master class or a game where the opposition keeper is man of the match. Both of these are due to lack of attacking ability.
As for the rest of the season I don't Care. You have to take the lows with the highs unless you're Real Madrid or Bayern Munich. We have had 3 great years and if that comes at the expense of a shambles this year so be it. I think Klopp can get us back on the perch but it will take time and probably with a much changed team.

[Steveo]

Great post.

Just 2 things though - I know it keeps being stated but I am not sure it’s 3 great years. Not in the history of the club.

Had a good run to the CL final in 17/18 - think Spurs 18/19.

Last 2 seasons:
We were epic in 18/19
Made of steel in 19/20

[eggy81]

Great post.

Just 2 things though - I know it keeps being stated but I am not sure it’s 3 great years. Not in the history of the club.

Had a good run to the CL final in 17/18 - think Spurs 18/19.

Last 2 seasons:
We were epic in 18/19
Made of steel in 19/20

It could have been an epic 4 year period really when you take into account the europa run too. The teams cycle is ending. Time to refresh as many of us have said for months now. Like I love milky but to see him still starting even with his recent muscle problems is a bit galling and his age is showing this year. Not a 90 minute man anymore

[Steveo]

Didn’t even make top 4 that year and only squeezed into 4th in 17/18. Great fun - but a great Liverpool season.. ??

We are romantics.

The Klopp years could easily have been 4 great years and counting - it’s the penny pinching that has halved it. It will be the penny pinching that shortens his time with us too.

[eggy81]

Didn’t even make top 4 that year and only squeezed into 4th in 17/18. Great fun - but a great Liverpool season.. ??

We are romantics.

The Klopp years could easily have been 4 great years and counting - it’s the penny pinching that has halved it. It will be the penny pinching that shortens his time with us too.

It was a great start to a decent era. And these have been great years in comparison to anything seen around here since 1990 steveo. Don’t forget that. The days of Liverpool fc being the all conquering dominant force in England and Europe over a sustained 10 year period are long gone and likely to never be back. Now it’s cycles. We’ve had a little run and yes could have won more but we did well to get the 2 big ones. Time to build the next hit at it now.

Edit: 05 notwithstanding

[Steveo]

I think you might be forgetting Rafa and his teams mate.

No way you are going to tell me that reaching the Europa final and losing is A great season and beyond anything since 1990 - how about compared to the treble under The late Houllier or the CL final in 2005 and again in 2007??

Sorry but FSG have got an army of PR that has led many to believe we last existed in 1990. The Yanks are great at that. But don’t buy it.

It is nonsense - we were the highest rated team in Europe in 2008.

The great years consist of 2 great years! Let’s be real. And this with the best manager on the planet. At least to my mind.

[Nineteenx]

No wonder every other set of fans likes to laugh at us and sticks the boot in.
Go back to last season and see how many decisions went in our favour. Nobody was complaining about refs or VAR then. We have had some go against us but like injuries so has every other team.
It just makes you sound bitter and delusional. We are where we are. Theres 3 instances where we've been robbed. Yesterday on the first goal,Everton and Brighton. So that 4 or possibly 6/7 points. Other teams can more than likely say the same. We robbed Fulham of 2 points getting a penalty that shouldn't have been given.
VAR and refs have nothing to do with how this team is currently performing.

See the part of my post referring to half wits being manipulated by media influence to accept the unacceptable and being a part of it becoming normalised

Name me on single instance of a so called subjective decision going in our favour this season? Fulham isn't one, that was the correct application of the new rules on handball, as we saw with the pen given against Gomez v City, deeply unpopular all round, but the correct decision

Of our VAR decisions last season name me the ones which when reviewed and seeing the footage were wrong decisions or applied for us but not other sides

If VAR review things and apply them the same for us as they do other clubs then there's no issue, but that hasn't been the case and what is your apologist explanation for VAR reviews when the footage very clearly shows something black and white like an offside being called incorrectly?

[skyebo]

I think you might be forgetting Rafa and his teams mate.

No way you are going to tell me that reaching the Europa final and losing is A great season and beyond anything since 1990 - how about compared to the treble under The late Houllier or the CL final in 2005 and again in 2007??

Sorry but FSG have got an army of PR that has led many to believe we last exists we in 1990.

It is nonsense - we were the highest rated team in Europe in 2008.

The great years consist of 2 great years! Let’s be real. And this with the best manager on the planet. At least to my mind.

Ratings are nonsense too, USA regularly rated in the top 4 rankings, they have never won a competition in their existence.

[Steveo]

Ratings are nonsense too, USA regularly rated in the top 4 rankings, they have never won a competition in their existence.

We nearly won the pissing title in 2009 FFS beating a superb United 1:4 at Old Toilet....!

Won the European Cup in 2005 NUMBER 5 the FA Cup in 2006 and were beaten Finalists in 2007 CL.!!

Have some of you totally lost leave of your senses?

FSG have done a number on so many of yous.

It’s like there is a void in your brains. Everything between 1990 and 2010 wiped out..

[eggy81]

I think you might be forgetting Rafa and his teams mate.

No way you are going to tell me that reaching the Europa final and losing is A great season and beyond anything since 1990 - how about compared to the treble under The late Houllier or the CL final in 2005 and again in 2007??

Sorry but FSG have got an army of PR that has led many to believe we last existed in 1990. The Yanks are great at that. But don’t buy it.

It is nonsense - we were the highest rated team in Europe in 2008.

The great years consist of 2 great years! Let’s be real. And this with the best manager on the planet. At least to my mind.

We last existed as a league and European cup winning team in succession in 1984. I’m not arguing anything other than it’s been two great years. But it has been years of constant upwards trajectories until now under klopp that hadn’t been seen since rafas team. It’s been a good spell for the club. I’m not even arguing that it’s down to the tanks. It’s obviously down to klopp

[skyebo]

We nearly won the pissing title in 2009 FFS beating a superb United 1:4 at Old Toilet....!

Won’t the European Cup in 2005 the FA Cup in 2006 and were beaten Finalists in 2007

Have some of you totally lost leave of your senses?

FSG have done a number on so many of yous

Thanks for the history lesson, but i'm aware of those things. My point is ratings count for nothing, they don't win you trophies, what happens ON the field does. FSG haven't done a number on me, i can see it from both sides, not just the one.

[Nineteenx]

Re Eggy's post was it or was it not the case in both our recent games against the filthy that there were numerous times when Rashford was very clearly offside, yet the assistant and refs allowed play to continue another 15-30 seconds and in many of the instances never blew at all, but just let us restart from a throw in or goal kick when their attack came to nothing

Yet in the same 2 games Mane and Mo were immediately flagged offside 5 or 6 times and a free kick awarded when in each instance they were not clearly offside

What are your apologist explanations for that?

[eggy81]

We nearly won the pissing title in 2009 FFS beating a superb United 1:4 at Old Toilet....!

Won the European Cup in 2005 NUMBER 5 the FA Cup in 2006 and were beaten Finalists in 2007 CL.!!

Have some of you totally lost leave of your senses?

FSG have done a number on so many of yous.

It’s like there is a void in your brains. Everything between 1990 and 2010 wiped out..
Hicks and Gillette were great owners!!

[Steveo]

The upward trajectory begins with Jurgen Klopp.

[Steveo]

Hicks and Gillette were great owners!!

They were the worst owners imaginable and their appalling behaviour is part of why FSG have had it so easy.

[eggy81]

The upward trajectory begins with Jurgen Klopp.

Where have I argued otherwise?

[Kev0909]

Why do the glazers get slagged off it's not like they don't put much money into the club?

they're basically a bigger FSG in america and here

[teesred]

See the part of my post referring to half wits being manipulated by media influence to accept the unacceptable and being a part of it becoming normalised

Name me on single instance of a so called subjective decision going in our favour this season? Fulham isn't one, that was the correct application of the new rules on handball, as we saw with the pen given against Gomez v City, deeply unpopular all round, but the correct decision

Of our VAR decisions last season name me the ones which when reviewed and seeing the footage were wrong decisions or applied for us but not other sides

If VAR review things and apply them the same for us as they do other clubs then there's no issue, but that hasn't been the case and what is your apologist explanation for VAR reviews when the footage very clearly shows something black and white like an offside being called incorrectly?

Those handball aren't being given now. Therefore we've benefitted twice from a ridiculous rule in the first place. We got a penalty against Leeds for the same thing which gained us points. Thats 4 points we've gained which we wouldnt be gaining now.
We scored a goal against City after Trent handballed it in the box last season, forget that one too?

You need to look at both sides of the argument and take your red specs off. Decisions will go against teams with or without VAR, thats the way it is.
We got some suspect VAR decisions last year, the game against Wolves I can think of straight away, there will be more but you conveniently forget them dont you. They are the types of decision you're complaining about now, both Wolves felt hard done by with that but that was that. They didn't go on about it forevermore.
Start looking at our own short comings instead of blaming officials. You say we "bossed" the game yet created zilch in terms of chances. Thats where the issue is.

If there was this crazy conspiracy that you are alluding to do you not think there would be other people aside from LFC fans picking up on it? Or is every person aside from Liverpool fans just doesn't see it?
Nobody on here is manipulated by the media, they just accept things for what they are. There is no conspiracy against Liverpool.

[Steveo]

Thanks for the history lesson, but i'm aware of those things. My point is ratings count for nothing, they don't win you trophies, what happens ON the field does. FSG haven't done a number on me, i can see it from both sides, not just the one.

We were ranked highest in Europe because we successively reached minimum CL Semi finals for a good stretch and 2 finals in 3 seasons.

Nothing like the ridiculous FIFA rankings based on games between Brazil and Luxembourg.

The difference is striking.

[Steveo]

Where have I argued otherwise?

Think wires are crossed - I am not saying you are. I was simply stating that we have really only been Great - IMO for 2 years at a push. In terms of winning and being consistent in the league.

Also that we have not had the best 4 years since 1990. May have misread you

[Steveo]

Why do the glazers get slagged off it's not like they don't put much money into the club?

they're basically a bigger FSG in america and here

They have seen a downturn naturally after Fergy.

So much of this revolves around the manager.

[Nineteenx]

You're getting a bit confused Tees, you've just admitted that at the time those handballs were given, it was the rule of how it was to be applied, so we haven't gained anything the correct decision has been made

Re Trent both instances were ball to hand, they reviewed his movement over 3 or 4 seconds and founf correctly that his hand was not in an unnatural position and he hadn't put them out to try and make himself bigger, again as the law was written and interpreted at that time, so again we weren't given anything but the correct decision

[eggy81]

Think wires are crossed - I am not saying you are. I was simply stating that we have really only been Great - IMO for 2 years at a push. In terms of winning and being consistent until he league.

Also that we have not had the best 4 years since 1990. May have misread you

Indeed you can only class the 2 years we actually won big trophies as great years but I was only illustrating the immediate impact klopp had for us by reaching that final so soon and that we’d progressed every year from then until now or probably last February when we fell away in reality

[Steveo]

Indeed you can only class the 2 years we actually won big trophies as great years but I was only illustrating the immediate impact klopp had for us by reaching that final so soon and that we’d progressed every year from then until now or probably last February when we fell away in reality

Sorry my mistake. Blame it on the Jura I can’t stop drinking.. :D

Totally agree

[Nineteenx]

Everton Virgil and Mane offside, Pickford not seeing red - Explain please Tees

You're now saying Brighton pen v Robbo was correct? So we should of course have had 2 v Southampton and 1 yesterday?

[redebreck]

What I can't understand is defenders carrying out Heimlich Manoeuvres on Mo, and getting away with it on almost every occasion. Then there was yesterday's push on Sadio which wasn't in any way subtle.
Sometimes things are given, other times they aren't. Why is that the case?
Depends on what team(s), what referee, who's running VAR. It's a fecking lottery, and it's not supposed to be.

[CCTV]

Didn’t even make top 4 that year and only squeezed into 4th in 17/18. Great fun - but a great Liverpool season.. ??

We are romantics.

The Klopp years could easily have been 4 great years and counting - it’s the penny pinching that has halved it. It will be the penny pinching that shortens his time with us too.

A great liverpool season in the modern era - reaching a cl final only better by winning it as in 04/05.

This January is the only time hes appeared frustrated in interviews regarding transfers. His mum was dying and he had no centre backs due to more injuries to Matip & Fabinho on top of VVD & Gomez.

His net spend on transfers is a little over half the net spend for the same amount of years prior to his term.
He said he wanted to work with what he had and build a team organically.

The club sacked Roy. Hired Kenny backed him, fired him to many fans disgust. But imo the league form wasn't manifesting in results and Kenny answered an sos when the club was in turmoil. Kenny had no desire to be a manager otherwise.
Hired Rodgers and fired Rodgers after a season and a bit. Again Rodgers was backed more heavily in net spend and although the 14/15 season was impaired due to the end of Sturridge as a footballer they gave him the opportunity to start the 15/16 season. Fans, myself included felt at the end of the 14/15 season it was time to go...
The idea that Klopp is under any real threat of being sacked seem very fanciful imo. We've seen the owners have patience with previous managers and this season in its context will be understood by them. Klopp has brought success to the club in actual trophies of note and will stay here for the foreseeable future. The risk of Kloop leaving is more realistic than him being fired imo.
I don't expect him to leave but bereavement can be a strange thing.

Jurgen was available and the club sought him as manager. I remember he was the fans choice, I also remember N4C and others saying he was beyond our reach. That he could go to any of the really rich clubs.
But Klopps a romantic and not a big fan of the entitled attitudes that are present at Bayern, Real, Barca and City now.
The project of arriving at LFC was appealing as he is a romantic and he enjoys the support. The support which he bravely called out for leaving early and cause him to feel alone. No doubt his feeling alone was really over egged and he was simply conveying his demands through a manner. Don't fucking leave as its disrespectful to my team and each and every player.
That took some balls imo and it's unlikely he hasn't got the same nerve when dealing with others like the owners or the press.

He had raised eye brows at the sight of Pogba arriving at Manu. A fee which eventually we almost matched and given the positions of Alisson and Virgil we effectively matched. Football fees inflate naturally but as we all know, the oil rich owned clubs have all inflated fees beyond its usual rate. Klopp seems aware of the market even if he hates the inflation.

All in all it seems like you, or other people, genuinely love Klopp but fail to understand the man. A fiscally conservative and romantic legend.
If he wanted to buy success he would have had better offers. City had built towards signing pep, but Klopp could have sat on his arse and taken a job with Bayern, Real, Barca, Manu, PSG, Chelsea, Juventus.
But he got off his arse and ended his year break to take the reigns here.

He started this season in good form, albeit moaning about no preseason due to covid rescheduling.

The season has been a fucking dire one. Losing virgil that day he looked shook. Losing virgil to pickford, who wasn't sent off as virgil was deemed to be offside by var and pickfords tackle wasn't deemed to meet the threshold of violent and dangerous play, whereby the rule of offside isn't a matter. Virgil being the crown jewel in his empire and most important addition.

So in summary, if people understand Klopp better imo they might see our net spend as a Klopp impact. A man who demanded we not lose money selling on failed players as we had done before and a man that demanded every penny from selling on potential future stars of the game. A man that loves the challenge of dethroning the incumbents.

Imo he had moved up after Dortmund with lfc in terms of potential financials. He also would have learned from dortmund and endeavoured to end his typical 7year stint in a more glorious fashion. Leaving the club stronger and not letting situations develop where he lost key players on free transfers.
So far bar selling Phil for an extraordinary fee he has managed to keep a squad galvanised and prevented any exodus.

You can't the fiscally conservative romantic German and have something else.
I do hope he continues to adapt to the modern game and can land a big commercial cash cow. If not we'll just have to put up with Jurgen being Jurgen :D

[skyebo]

What I can't understand is defenders carrying out Heimlich Manoeuvres on Mo, and getting away with it on almost every occasion. Then there was yesterday's push on Sadio which wasn't in any way subtle.
Sometimes things are given, other times they aren't. Why is that the case?
Depends on what team(s), what referee, who's running VAR. It's a fecking lottery, and it's not supposed to be.

Because it's humans coming to those decisions, what one person sees another won't. You will rarely get accuracies when outcomes are based on opinions and not fact. We didn't need VAR.

[Steveo]

@CC with respect some of the above is clearly well wide of the Mark also you are talking about the wrong season.. FFS

Also even if we look at the wrong season - how is 2018 better than 2007?

[skyebo]

A great liverpool season in the modern era - reaching a cl final only better by winning it as in 04/05.

This January is the only time hes appeared frustrated in interviews regarding transfers. His mum was dying and he had no centre backs due to more injuries to Matip & Fabinho on top of VVD & Gomez.

His net spend on transfers is a little over half the net spend for the same amount of years prior to his term.
He said he wanted to work with what he had and build a team organically.

The club sacked Roy. Hired Kenny backed him, fired him to many fans disgust. But imo the league form wasn't manifesting in results and Kenny answered an sos when the club was in turmoil. Kenny had no desire to be a manager otherwise.
Hired Rodgers and fired Rodgers after a season and a bit. Again Rodgers was backed more heavily in net spend and although the 14/15 season was impaired due to the end of Sturridge as a footballer they gave him the opportunity to start the 15/16 season. Fans, myself included felt at the end of the 14/15 season it was time to go...
The idea that Klopp is under any real threat of being sacked seem very fanciful imo. We've seen the owners have patience with previous managers and this season in its context will be understood by them. Klopp has brought success to the club in actual trophies of note and will stay here for the foreseeable future. The risk of Kloop leaving is more realistic than him being fired imo.
I don't expect him to leave but bereavement can be a strange thing.

Jurgen was available and the club sought him as manager. I remember he was the fans choice, I also remember N4C and others saying he was beyond our reach. That he could go to any of the really rich clubs.
But Klopps a romantic and not a big fan of the entitled attitudes that are present at Bayern, Real, Barca and City now.
The project of arriving at LFC was appealing as he is a romantic and he enjoys the support. The support which he bravely called out for leaving early and cause him to feel alone. No doubt his feeling alone was really over egged and he was simply conveying his demands through a manner. Don't fucking leave as its disrespectful to my team and each and every player.
That took some balls imo and it's unlikely he hasn't got the same nerve when dealing with others like the owners or the press.

He had raised eye brows at the sight of Pogba arriving at Manu. A fee which eventually we almost matched and given the positions of Alisson and Virgil we effectively matched. Football fees inflate naturally but as we all know, the oil rich owned clubs have all inflated fees beyond its usual rate. Klopp seems aware of the market even if he hates the inflation.

All in all it seems like you, or other people, genuinely love Klopp but fail to understand the man. A fiscally conservative and romantic legend.
If he wanted to buy success he would have had better offers. City had built towards signing pep, but Klopp could have sat on his arse and taken a job with Bayern, Real, Barca, Manu, PSG, Chelsea, Juventus.
But he got off his arse and ended his year break to take the reigns here.

He started this season in good form, albeit moaning about no preseason due to covid rescheduling.

The season has been a fucking dire one. Losing virgil that day he looked shook. Losing virgil to pickford, who wasn't sent off as virgil was deemed to be offside by var and pickfords tackle wasn't deemed to meet the threshold of violent and dangerous play, whereby the rule of offside isn't a matter. Virgil being the crown jewel in his empire and most important addition.

So in summary, if people understand Klopp better imo they might see our net spend as a Klopp impact. A man who demanded we not lose money selling on failed players as we had done before and a man that demanded every penny from selling on potential future stars of the game. A man that loves the challenge of dethroning the incumbents.

Imo he had moved up after Dortmund with lfc in terms of potential financials. He also would have learned from dortmund and endeavoured to end his typical 7year stint in a more glorious fashion. Leaving the club stronger and not letting situations develop where he lost key players on free transfers.
So far bar selling Phil for an extraordinary fee he has managed to keep a squad galvanised and prevented any exodus.

You can't the fiscally conservative romantic German and have something else.
I do hope he continues to adapt to the modern game and can land a big commercial cash cow. If not we'll just have to put up with Jurgen being Jurgen :D

We all know Dalglish's sacking wasn't just down to results, those T shirts and the backing of a racist played a bigger part in that. Had he finished in the top 4 the owners would have been in a dilemma, finishing 7th in the table made their decision easier.

[CCTV]

@CC with respect some of the above is clearly well wide of the mark.

If you believe that reaching the Europa League final and losing - and missing out on top 4 is a better year than 2006 or 2007 - then I cannot help.

First decent European run and final since... On his way to building a great side. If you can't appreciate that season, galvanising the fans, restoring belief and enjoyment then maybe hes not the manager you are looking for.

I don't believe they were better seasons than those years, stop fighting windmills :D

[Steveo]

2006 Knocked out of CL by Chelsea win FA Cup finish 3rd!

2009 wasn’t a better season?
Almost win the title - destroy Real Madrid 5:0 on aggregate..! Lose to Chelsea 1/4 final CL..

Seriously?

You sound like a 12 year old living in the woods

[CCTV]

We all know Dalglish's sacking wasn't just down to results, those T shirts and the backing of a racist played a bigger part in that. Had he finished in the top 4 the owners would have been in a dilemma, finishing 7th in the table made their decision easier.

Yes, finishing 7th made it easier. Odd that they'd sack Kenny for backing Suarez and not move Suarez on for being a 'racist' as you put it.
Personally I don't believe Suarez is a racist.

[teesred]

You're getting a bit confused Tees, you've just admitted that at the time those handballs were given, it was the rule of how it was to be applied, so we haven't gained anything the correct decision has been made

Re Trent both instances were ball to hand, they reviewed his movement over 3 or 4 seconds and founf correctly that his hand was not in an unnatural position and he hadn't put them out to try and make himself bigger, again as the law was written and interpreted at that time, so again we weren't given anything but the correct decision

So you would have been happy for City to have scored from the same thing happening in the reverse? Pep was fuming with it.
Like when the foul should have been given on Origi against Utd last season? I cant imagine you would have been okay with it. None of us would but that's the fickle nature of football fans.

Just making the point we have benefitted from VAR aswell as falling foul of it. Every team has.
The first goal yesterday was always goingvto be a free kick. He plays for it absolutely but we fell into the trap and it ended up being costly.

[skyebo]

Yes, finishing 7th made it easier. Odd that they'd sack Kenny for backing Suarez and not move Suarez on for being a 'racist' as you put it.
Personally I don't believe Suarez is a racist.

Rightly or wrongly he served a ban for it. We have not suffered as a team without him.

[CCTV]

Rightly or wrongly he served a ban for it. We have not suffered as a team without him.

We suffered after he left, the club goes on.

I'm just saying that it's a bit odd to suggest they sacked Kenny for backing Suarez a 'racist' yet stubbornly refused to offload him to arsenal and when he left for barca it wasn't exactly because they wanted to sell him.
Suarez got a stay of execution as he was producing in football terms.

[CCTV]

In the end he left rather than being forced out.

[CCTV]

2006 Knocked out of CL by Chelsea win FA Cup finish 3rd!

2009 wasn’t a better season?
Almost win the title - destroy Real Madrid 5:0 on aggregate..! Lose to Chelsea 1/4 final CL..

Seriously?

You sound like a 12 year old living in the woods

I suppose a 12 year old living in the woods wouldn't have time for fighting windmills.

[skyebo]

That was the trouble with Benitez, he was quite happy to finish in the top 4. He rested first choice players in many league games only to bring them back for a CL game. We had one good season in the league under him, the other 5 we were nowhere. Should have kicked on after 2009 instead of finishing 7th.

[eggy81]

United fans freaking with the ref before half time. All during that half really. Not watching. Anything unit like what we think happens us.

[justme]

The problems Rafa had was we had poor a squad other than the first 11/13 squad players. He wanted some more back up players. But
Dick Turpin and Robinhood. werent going to give him any more money..

[Steveo]

I suppose a 12 year old living in the woods wouldn't have time for fighting windmills.

But seemingly plenty of it to waste on trying all manner of ways to prove that black is in fact a light shade of grey.

Gazing out on the woods - if trees actually grow there? The logic goes that our manager actually seeks out the chance to spend as little as is possible. Happy to pile the workload onto the few... Preferring to miss out on titles and trophies over winning fewer but doing so while spending less than Sheffield United..!

:D

[vin]

No wonder every other set of fans likes to laugh at us and sticks the boot in.
Go back to last season and see how many decisions went in our favour. Nobody was complaining about refs or VAR then. We have had some go against us but like injuries so has every other team.
It just makes you sound bitter and delusional. We are where we are. Theres 3 instances where we've been robbed. Yesterday on the first goal,Everton and Brighton. So that 4 or possibly 6/7 points. Other teams can more than likely say the same. We robbed Fulham of 2 points getting a penalty that shouldn't have been given.
VAR and refs have nothing to do with how this team is currently performing.

But statistically we didn't not benefit from VAR decisions last season. That's a construct of opposing fans. More decisions went against us than for us.

[vin]

We nearly won the pissing title in 2009 FFS beating a superb United 1:4 at Old Toilet....!

Won the European Cup in 2005 NUMBER 5 the FA Cup in 2006 and were beaten Finalists in 2007 CL.!!

Have some of you totally lost leave of your senses?

FSG have done a number on so many of yous.

It’s like there is a void in your brains. Everything between 1990 and 2010 wiped out..

Who were the owners in 2009? How sustainable was their approach?

[Steveo]

The problems Rafa had was we had poor a squad other than the first 11/13 squad players. He wanted some more back up players. But
Dick Turpin and Robinhood. werent going to give him any more money..

Safety first manager - hence we negotiated 2 legs against some of the best sides in Europe arguably even better than Klopp has managed. At least if we accept the squad wasn’t quite as good.

He wasn’t at Klopp’s level -certainly not for the cut and thrust of English Premier league football - but had a better eye for the top level game and had some incredible players.

Rafa’s Liverpool would have been a nightmare for Klopp’s to face over 2 legs!

[Steveo]

Who were the owners in 2009? How sustainable was their approach?

Cowboys - and it wasn’t sustainable at all.

That is precisely the point.

Worst owners in our history but we almost won a title.

Like I said - citing the owners as the biggest factor is just plain wrong. They just ain’t. They can hold you back or help you progress but ultimately the manager dictates the largest part.

[vin]

Cowboys - and it wasn’t sustainable at all.

That is precisely the point.

Worst owners in our history but we almost won a title.

Like I said - citing the owners as the biggest factor is just plain wrong. They just ain’t. They can hold you back or help you progress but ultimately the manager dictates the largest part.

Ok. I misunderstood your point. I think owners deserve some credit but aren't the main reason.

[teesred]

But statistically we didn't not benefit from VAR decisions last season. That's a construct of opposing fans. More decisions went against us than for us.

More VAR decisions went against us than for last season? I'm not sure about that. I dont recall many going against us. The Firmino one against Villa I think springs to mind where he was classed as offside by his finger or whatever it was. I cant think of any others right now.

[Nineteenx]

More VAR decisions went against us than for last season? I'm not sure about that. I dont recall many going against us. The Firmino one against Villa I think springs to mind where he was classed as offside by his finger or whatever it was. I cant think of any others right now.

This is about the excuse of subjectivity, if Robbo gives Wellshit the merest brush outstep to outstep in the box and he throws himself to ground rolling around and that's a pen, then their lad missing the ball and catching Mo's foot and actually stopping him progressing with the ball, which wasn't the case with Wellshit is surely a nailed on pen

If a defender running back catching Pogba's leg by accident as it comes back in his stride of running is a penalty on a Saturday night, then it's a penalty the day after when the Southampton lad does exactly the same to Mane and by their lads own reaction he knew it was a fucking pen too

If the law on handball states that an arm blocking a shot on goal, even in a natural position is now a penalty, then that's the letter of the law and the Southampton lad doing that is a pen, that's not even subjective, it's a fucking pen by the letter of the law, the pen given to City for Gomez's handball in a natural position when running wasn't even a shot on goal, it was an attempted cross

And there isn't any excusing too many VAR decisions, Son offside stopped a frame early when the ball was still wit Lo Celso, Werner pen for Chelsea, never a pen, not even a foul, VAR not correcting Virgil being at least a yard on v the bitters, VAR ruling Mane off, yesterday's goal, the WBA players clear and obvious foul on Fab for their goal, there is no excusing these decisions, they have the benefit of replay, they aren't subjective or open to interpretation, they are clear and obvious deliberate, bent wrong decisions, it's impossible for even an apologist to see it any other way

[teesred]

But even with or without VAR every ref will react and give decisions differently. Thats why VAR hasnt solved anything. Its the refs interpretation and they are often not going to be the same.
I don't agree with some of the VARs that have gone against us, we didn't think the Brighton was a pen but plenty of other people did.
We have been on the wrong end of them this season but I'm not going along with any deliberate wrong doing or kind if anti LFC bias.

[CCTV]

But seemingly plenty of it to waste on trying all manner of ways to prove that black is in fact a light shade of grey.

Gazing out on the woods - if trees actually grow there? The logic goes that our manager actually seeks out the chance to spend as little as is possible. Happy to pile the workload onto the few... Preferring to miss out on titles and trophies over winning fewer but doing so while spending less than Sheffield United..!

:D

English isn't my first language, but I was under the impression that woods without trees would be a field or some other landscape. That the timber of trees is an integral part of the woods.

He said he wanted to build a team organically and judge him after 3 years, seems you have an issue with his style and character.

If he wanted a massive budget and titles he'd have held out for one of the clubs who would have given him that massive budget and guarantee. Would have had his choice of clubs. Would have left Dortmund earlier.

So carry on moaning about the qualities of a man who'd take the challenge, relish it and succeed, for not being the man who'd refuse the offer. Ignore replies and ask the same question again, ignore points or questions put to you.

PSG, Bayern, Juve, Chelsea, Manu, Real, Barca. Excluding city as they were building towards pep for a while.
He could of joined any of those clubs.
So why didn't he ?

Did he come here under the provision he'd get half the net spend as previous manager ?

Did the owners say he'd get the same and then shaft him on net spend ?

[eggy81]

This is about the excuse of subjectivity, if Robbo gives Wellshit the merest brush outstep to outstep in the box and he throws himself to ground rolling around and that's a pen, then their lad missing the ball and catching Mo's foot and actually stopping him progressing with the ball, which wasn't the case with Wellshit is surely a nailed on pen

If a defender running back catching Pogba's leg by accident as it comes back in his stride of running is a penalty on a Saturday night, then it's a penalty the day after when the Southampton lad does exactly the same to Mane and by their lads own reaction he knew it was a fucking pen too

If the law on handball states that an arm blocking a shot on goal, even in a natural position is now a penalty, then that's the letter of the law and the Southampton lad doing that is a pen, that's not even subjective, it's a fucking pen by the letter of the law, the pen given to City for Gomez's handball in a natural position when running wasn't even a shot on goal, it was an attempted cross

And there isn't any excusing too many VAR decisions, Son offside stopped a frame early when the ball was still wit Lo Celso, Werner pen for Chelsea, never a pen, not even a foul, VAR not correcting Virgil being at least a yard on v the bitters, VAR ruling Mane off, yesterday's goal, the WBA players clear and obvious foul on Fab for their goal, there is no excusing these decisions, they have the benefit of replay, they aren't subjective or open to interpretation, they are clear and obvious deliberate, bent wrong decisions, it's impossible for even an apologist to see it any other way
What about mos pen last week.

[Steveo]

English isn't my first language, but I was under the impression that woods without trees would be a field or some other landscape. That the timber of trees is an integral part of the woods.

He said he wanted to build a team organically and judge him after 3 years, seems you have an issue with his style and character.

If he wanted a massive budget and titles he'd have held out for one of the clubs who would have given him that massive budget and guarantee. Would have had his choice of clubs. Would have left Dortmund earlier.

So carry on moaning about the qualities of a man who'd take the challenge, relish it and succeed, for not being the man who'd refuse the offer. Ignore replies and ask the same question again, ignore points or questions put to you.

PSG, Bayern, Juve, Chelsea, Manu, Real, Barca. Excluding city as they were building towards pep for a while.
He could of joined any of those clubs.
So why didn't he ?

Did he come here under the provision he'd get half the net spend as previous manager ?

Did the owners say he'd get the same and then shaft him on net spend ?

Yep - I am suggesting you seem to have a restricted view - but am also aware that much of Ireland is open field.

You seem to be suggesting that you know Klopp in an intimate way - at least in a better way than I do - which you don’t.

You also seem to unable to spot the difference between spending well and at the right time and spending massive amounts ( the old - we aren’t City or you want a sugar daddy BS ) the usual warped logic cited by anyone defending our “backers” - which is clearly what you are doing.

You also ask WHY Klopp came to Liverpool over the big clubs in Europe... We were a sleeping Giant... hence the 12 year old comment... was last season the first title you have witnessed?

Are you not aware what a club and what a city Liverpool is. ...? If not what on Earth are you doing with this club either - why not follow Juve - Barca - Real.. :D

This club is unique yer daft eedjit

[Steveo]

CCTV - If you honestly believe that Klopp is here because he is in love with John W Henry and the Moneyball model over the clubs standing itself. The chance to resurrect what was and is again the most successful football club in the land - then I can at least understand your logic - however flawed it may be.

In my tiny mind - he is here because of the fit between the club, the players and the fans. That trinity Shankly spoke of. Nothing whatsoever to do with a group of sports business owners from Boston,

[CCTV]

Yep - I am suggesting you seem to have a restricted view - but am also aware that much of Ireland is open field.

You seem to be suggesting that you know Klopp in an intimate way - at least in a better way than I do - which you don’t.

You also seem to unable to spot the difference between spending well and at the right time and spending massive amounts ( the old - we aren’t City or you want a sugar daddy BS ) the usual warped logic cited by anyone defending our “backers” - which is clearly what you are doing.

You also ask WHY Klopp came to Liverpool over the big clubs in Europe... We were a sleeping Giant... hence the 12 year old comment... was last season the first title you have witnessed?

Are you not aware what a club and what a city Liverpool is. ...? If not what on Earth are you doing with this club either - why not follow Juve - Barca - Real.. :D

This club is unique yer daft eedjit

No I can only profile Klopp as you do regularly.
However you seem to have a profile or claims at odd with the man himself, who has been well documented.

Seems you can admit he chose a unique club over guaranteed titles and a big budget.
If he wanted a massive trophy haul and top budget, he could have chosen another club and left Dortmund earlier.

Again avoiding simple questions.

No, last season was not the first title I've witnessed us winning. I did miss out on the old glory days, followed lfc because of its Irish internationals and would say a follower since that era onwards. Post 1990.

Yes, I've been to the city and outside the grounds. Yet to get a matchday ticket.

[Steveo]

"I love the history. I really am a football romantic. I knew I probably can help. They maybe really need me, in this time. I know what I'm good at,"

[CCTV]

1) The logic goes that our manager actually seeks out the chance to spend as little as is possible. 2) Happy to pile the workload onto the few... 3)Preferring to miss out on titles and trophies over winning fewer 4)but doing so while spending less than Sheffield United..!
:D



PSG, Bayern, Juve, Chelsea, Manu, Real, Barca. Excluding city as they were building towards pep for a while.
He could of joined any of those clubs.
So why didn't he ?

A) Did he come here under the provision he'd get half the net spend as previous manager ?

B) Did the owners say he'd get the same and then shaft him on net spend ?


CCTV - If you honestly believe that Klopp is here because he is in love with John W Henry and the Moneyball model over the clubs standing itself. The chance to resurrect what was and is again the most successful football club in the land - then I can at least understand your logic - however flawed it may be.

In my tiny mind - he is here because of the fit between the club, the players and the fans. That trinity Shankly spoke of. Nothing whatsoever to do with a group of sports business owners from Boston,

1) yes he understands money and is fiscally conservative, thats his record.
2) he prefers smaller squads - on record
3) yes, he stayed at Dortmund and joined LFC when if titles and money were his concern he'd have plenty of better offers.
He doesn't enjoy losing.
4) his net spend at Dortmund was low, his net spend at lfc was/is low, if he wanted more net spend he'd have plenty of offers.

These aren't perfect answers but they at least considered with the reality. If Jurgen wanted to best Pep/Jose he'd not have joined lfc. If he wanted bigger spending etc, his career correlates with underdogs and underdog spending. Jose never took that option when he had the better option, Peps never taken it.

A&B
He joined lfc with certain restraints relative to other offers, as was his position at Dortmund similar.

Answer a and b please, explain how you see it.

Our net spend is lower under Klopp than before Klopp, utter madness given football inflation, revenue increases and profits.
But how is that down to jwh and co, did they bully klopp, exploit his desperation to join lfc, is it just a coincidence that hes a bit of a hipster and choses to stay or join smaller clubs when the bigger offers are there to be taken.

There is a certain pride in knowing you took over a sleeping giant and transformed the club... organically and with excellence.
You helped sort out the finances.
Got good money for your sales.
Bought excellently.
Competed with one of the best managers in history, with a fraction of the spend.
Competed with your historic rival and bested them with ease as they spent the same as city.
Competed with spurs the most comparable club financially and spent less than them.
Net spent less than 13 other clubs or whatever amount.
That is his achievement and style.

Hes not Lewandowski, hes not gotze, not pep, not jose, etc he chooses the path less travelled. The harder challenge.

Hes a smart man whose learned from Dortmund and identified the issues he had. Net spend is not a priority seemingly.

He could have left Dortmund prior to his eventual departure. He could have taken a top club that was awake and a giant. He could have taken ac Milan.
But he didn't and it's unlikely imo he took the job and wouldn't have had at least the same capacity to invest as measured by net spend at the same level as Kenny and Br adjusting for inflation. But he hasn't, now you want to say that's the owners. I'm just saying Klopp likes it in the trenches.

Does he make sense ? No.
Humans aren't exactly logical, Klopp from an outside viewpoint is one of the least logical.

Why didn't he bail from Dortmund earlier.
Why didn't he take an easier job with bigger spending and title success.
Why would he take the job with less finances than his predecessors in terms of net spend when income, inflation and profits all increased.
If he loved liverpool so much why didn't he bail from Dortmund earlier.

[CCTV]

His net spend at Dortmund over 7 years was 57.881 million
Around 8.23 mill per year

[CCTV]

Most of his net spend at Dortmund came in his last year. Prior to that its in the 100s of thousands a year.

[dicko1969]

Klopp fits liverpool perfectly

Liverpool fits klopp perfectly too.

The culture, the people, the style of football, heavy metal football.

Nobody likes losing.

And when we do we look for someone or something to blame.
Bobby or Kuyt, var / ref, net spend or players we should have signed. Ffs Parry!

Klopp lives with the pressure of 'fans' , social media fb african liverpool expert fans, journalists, tv, radio 'talk shows', 'pundits', the owners, expectations and family.

What an amazing man he is !

[skyebo]

Klopp fits liverpool perfectly

Liverpool fits klopp perfectly too.

The culture, the people, the style of football, heavy metal football.

Nobody likes losing.

And when we do we look for someone or something to blame.
Bobby or Kuyt, var / ref, net spend or players we should have signed. Ffs Parry!

Klopp lives with the pressure of 'fans' , social media fb african liverpool expert fans, journalists, tv, radio 'talk shows', 'pundits', the owners, expectations and family.

What an amazing man he is !

All managers need broad shoulders, otherwise they wouldn't survive. The financial rewards are huge for the ones at the top table, a reason why i never feel sorry if they get the sack, they soon find another one, unlike your average person who could be out of work indefinitely if they lose their job.

[Steveo]

"When they told me about the problems they had I thought, 'OK, yeah, I am probably the really right manager for that club'.

"A little thing. Liverpool is a world class brand, big, big, big, but in Melwood, you know it Robbie, it is still a family, nothing else, and you can go in and feel that.”

[CCTV]

At Dortmund Klopp had lower net spend and success

At lfc prior to Klopp we had higher net spend than Klopp at Dortmund & Klopp at Liverpool

Klopp brought a massive impact to the club, getting to know the tea ladies, brought title successes, top4s, transformed player sales & acquisitions, wanted to build organically.

But the reduction in net spend when Klopp arrived was due to the savvy and greedy investors.

The savvy and greedy investors decided to reduce investment as measured by Net Spend, handicapping Klopp the best manager they have landed and their investment.

Some might think that's a strange decision even from a purely greed and self interest perspective....

Everything else Klopp, net spend coincidence.

[Steveo]

CC - let me try this way....

What happened at Dortmund...?

[CCTV]

So far no reply as to how this transpired.

Was klopp promised the same net spend as before he arrived, only for FSG to break that pledge.

Did they hoodwink him on the financials and use his desperation to join lfc and end his sabbatical with only half the net spend available.

Why did fsg decide to risk growth for their investment by reducing net spend once they had the best manager to date under their tenure.

It seems hard to paint a credible picture of the events, no answers might be the wise option. Plead the 5th

[Steveo]

I don’t know what nonsensical question you are asking. English clearly isn’t your first language.

His low net spend at Dortmund resulted in what? 2 big seasons of success and then what happened?

If you were FSG - would you want to copy that template?

You are saying Klopp got every player he wanted and had every penny he needed.

Pure unfiltered hogwash...

He is happy to work within restraints - that is not the same as - Klopp can only work within restraints. So here’s what we do.. the minute he achieves success - we make a profit in the transfer market :D

Stop being an FSG shill - too many already on here FFS!

[CCTV]

CC - let me try this way....

What happened at Dortmund...?

They lost key players for free to Bayern. Lewandowski and Gotze, Lewandowski being an incredible loss.

Klopp had injuries in his squad particularly Reus and the life cycle of a coach had run its course.
7years in the modern game being a good stint.

Maybe try answering questions, that's another way to have a discussion.

[Steveo]

They lost key players for free to Bayern. Lewandowski and Gotze, Lewandowski being an incredible loss.

Klopp had injuries in his squad particularly Reus and the life cycle of a coach had run its course.
7years in the modern game being a good stint.

Maybe try answering questions, that's another way to have a discussion.

Aah they lost players and had injuries.

Ask an actual question - one that can be interpreted- rather than a load of old gobbledygook and you might get one.

[skyebo]

I don’t know what nonsensical question you are asking. English clearly isn’t your first language.

His low net spend at Dortmund resulted in what? 2 big seasons of success and then what happened?

If you were FSG - would you want to copy that template?

You are saying Klopp got every player he wanted and had every penny he needed.

Pure unfiltered hogwash...

He is happy to work within restraints - that is not the same as - Klopp can only work within restraints. So here’s what we do.. the minute he achieves success - we make a profit in the transfer market :D

Stop being an FSG shill - too many already on here FFS!

There are also too many who are willing to stick the boot into the owners as soon as they get an opportunity to. All i'm interested in is a successful team on the pitch, how much it costs or has cost is pretty irrelevant to the fans because no-one on here knows what goes on inside the club. Speculate all you want, but it make your theories correct.

[CCTV]

I don’t know what nonsensical question you are asking. English clearly isn’t your first language.

His low net spend at Dortmund resulted in what? 2 big seasons of success and then what happened?

If you were FSG - would you want to copy that template?

You are saying Klopp got every player he wanted and had every penny he needed.

Pure unfiltered hogwash...

He is happy to work within restraints - that is not the same as - Klopp can only work within restraints. So here’s what we do.. the minute he achieves success - we make a profit in the transfer market :D

Stop being an FSG shill - too many already on here FFS!

Bayern as usual took his feet out from under him, he lost Lewandowski on a free transfer and Bayern won every league title since.

We've not lost any key players on a free transfer. So we've not copied that critical detail. As said klopp has learned from his Dortmund experience. Meticulous in getting a profile of players outside of their football ability.

He's clearly chosen to work with clubs who have constraints and could have joined a top dog at any point really. He's a perfect fit for any club. Top, middling or bottom.
The fact he's chosen the tougher path, shouldn't lead you to make conclusions of your own about my views.

We've secured players to contracts and made sure we got to dollar for the one who jumped ship.

Stop being a coward and answers questions my man, it doesn't help your case to state something and plead the 5th.

Fsg shill, if you say so, please explain why these greedy and savvy investors decided to reduce net spend when Klopp arrived.
Risking the growth of their own investment.
In a greedy, self interest case it doesn't make sense that this just arrived when Klopp did.

But I'm awaiting your actual answer so as I don't have to guess or deal with alternative scenarios.
What is it

[Steveo]

There are also too many who are willing to stick the boot into the owners as soon as they get an opportunity to. All i'm interested in is a successful team on the pitch, how much it costs or has cost is pretty irrelevant to the fans because no-one on here knows what goes on inside the club. Speculate all you want, but it make your theories correct.

Not enough criticism of them IMO. There would be 5 times more were it not for Hicks & Gillett and the media circus the banks created around our golden giveaway.

The owners are not above criticism
and Klopp gets miles more.

They were utterly pathetic in summer 2019... and one assumes Klopp only gets Jota and Thiago by letting Lovren, Clyne and Lallana go.

[Steveo]

Bayern as usual took his feet out from under him, he lost Lewandowski on a free transfer and Bayern won every league title since.

We've not lost any key players on a free transfer. So we've not copied that critical detail. As said klopp has learned from his Dortmund experience. Meticulous in getting a profile of players outside of their football ability.

He's clearly chosen to work with clubs who have constraints and could have joined a top dog at any point really. He's a perfect fit for any club. Top, middling or bottom.
The fact he's chosen the tougher path, shouldn't lead you to make conclusions of your own about my views.

We've secured players to contracts and made sure we got to dollar for the one who jumped ship.

Stop being a coward and answers questions my man, it doesn't help your case to state something and plead the 5th.

Fsg shill, if you say so, please explain why these greedy and savvy investors decided to reduce net spend when Klopp arrived.
Risking the growth of their own investment.
In a greedy, self interest case it doesn't make sense that this just arrived when Klopp did.

But I'm awaiting your actual answer so as I don't have to guess or deal with alternative scenarios.
What is it

You are a shill and clearly not one of the brightest either.

Ooh it’s “my man” now is it. Didn’t take long for the old Irish temper to rear its ugly head :D


Any reduction in investment is purely the result of the upward trajectory of Klopp’s tenure. As mentioned earlier on this very thread. His impact was almost immediate.

FSG = ah you can have a Euro run and get to top 4 without any negative spend. That’s the ticket.

But did that really need answering...?

Are you really so obtuse?

Watch this.. always makes me laugh.


https://youtu.be/72BrqGNvaT0

[CCTV]

So far no reply as to how this transpired.

Was klopp promised the same net spend as before he arrived, only for FSG to break that pledge.

Did they hoodwink him on the financials and use his desperation to join lfc and end his sabbatical with only half the net spend available.

Why did fsg decide to risk growth for their investment by reducing net spend once they had the best manager to date under their tenure.

It seems hard to paint a credible picture of the events, no answers might be the wise option. Plead the 5th


Aah they lost players and had injuries.

Ask an actual question - one that can be interpreted- rather than a load of old gobbledygook and you might get one.

Not sure what part you're struggling with tbh

[CCTV]

So far no reply as to how this transpired.

Was klopp promised the same net spend as before he arrived, only for FSG to break that pledge.

Did they hoodwink him on the financials and use his desperation to join lfc and end his sabbatical with only half the net spend available.

Why did fsg decide to risk growth for their investment by reducing net spend once they had the best manager to date under their tenure.

It seems hard to paint a credible picture of the events, no answers might be the wise option. Plead the 5th


You are a shill and clearly not one of the brightest either.

Ooh it’s “my man” now is it. Didn’t take long for the old Irish temper to rear its ugly head :D


Any reduction in investment is purely the result of the upward trajectory of Klopp’s tenure. As mentioned earlier on this very thread. His impact was almost immediate.

FSG = ah you can have a Euro run and get to top 4 without any negative spend. That’s the ticket.

But did that really need answering...?

Are you really so obtuse?

Watch this.. always makes me laugh.


https://youtu.be/72BrqGNvaT0

Temper, are you angry Steveo ?

I'm quite happy, like a pig in shit, having a debate. I only return the jibes as I feel like you like that sort of stuff.
A bit of get for your give.

[Steveo]

Temper, are you angry Steveo ?

I'm quite happy, like a pig in shit, having a debate. I only return the jibes as I feel like you like that sort of stuff.
A bit of get for your give.

Is that right “my man” :D

Not sure why but pigs n shit seem apt.

[skyebo]

Not enough criticism of them IMO. There would be 5 times more were it not for Hicks & Gillett and the media circus the banks created around our golden giveaway.

The owners are not above criticism
and Klopp gets miles more.

They were utterly pathetic in summer 2019... and one assumes Klopp only gets Jota and Thiago by letting Lovren, Clyne and Lallana go.

Obviously not, they get criticised most days on here, and you'd have more of an argument over the summer of 2019, if we had collapsed after the CL win, but we won the league, so how did not spending any money have a negative outcome ?

[CCTV]

So far no reply as to how this transpired.

Was klopp promised the same net spend as before he arrived, only for FSG to break that pledge.

Did they hoodwink him on the financials and use his desperation to join lfc and end his sabbatical with only half the net spend available.

Why did fsg decide to risk growth for their investment by reducing net spend once they had the best manager to date under their tenure.

It seems hard to paint a credible picture of the events, no answers might be the wise option. Plead the 5th


Is that right “my man” :D

Not sure why but pigs n shit seem apt.

PigsLivesMatter

[Steveo]

Obviously not, they get criticised most days on here, and you'd have more of an argument over the summer of 2019, if we had collapsed after the CL win, but we won the league, so how did not spending any money have a negative outcome ?

Yes so the team would have crashed instantly.. that’s how it works is it.? Get to final win.. and go to pot.

Come on man. 2019 is the point I am really stressing too.

The team did crash barely 5 months after the season started. Just went on an amazing run which won the title.

[skyebo]

Yes so the team would have crashed instantly.. that’s how it works is it.? Get to final win.. and go to pot.

Come on man. 2019 is the point I am really stressing too.

The team did crash barely 5 months later.

Yes they crashed that much they only won the league by 18 points.

[Red October]

Safety first manager - hence we negotiated 2 legs against some of the best sides in Europe arguably even better than Klopp has managed. At least if we accept the squad wasn’t quite as good.

He wasn’t at Klopp’s level -certainly not for the cut and thrust of English Premier league football - but had a better eye for the top level game and had some incredible players.

Rafa’s Liverpool would have been a nightmare for Klopp’s to face over 2 legs!
Just reading back through this thread. Yes rafa would probably have done klopp over two legs. Sad to say. Klopp's team is amazing on its day and we've seen some beautiful football these past few years but rafa had that way of getting a result especially in Europe. Loved rafa but he was a bit conservative. Had put together a great team by 09.

[Steveo]

Yes they crashed that much they only won the league by 18 points.

Just look at the results mate. Title was won by end of January. Amazing feat - but you have to be able to see what happens next.

Didn’t need to be so pronounced. We also could have ridden this season far better than we are doing: that’s all.

[Steveo]

Just reading back through this thread. Yes rafa would probably have done klopp over two legs. Sad to say. Klopp's team is amazing on its day and we've seen some beautiful football these past few years but rafa had that way of getting a result especially in Europe. Loved rafa but he was a bit conservative. Had put together a great team by 09.

Yep the old Jinx. How did those clowns ever sell to those 2 cowboys.. Moore’s and Parry...!

[skyebo]

Just look at the results mate. Title was won by end of January. Amazing feat - but you have to be able to see what happens next.

Didn’t need to be so pronounced. We also could have ridden this season far better than we are doing: that’s all.

Fair enough Steveo.

[Steveo]

PigsLivesMatter

I love pigs to be fair.

https://youtu.be/j0_ljN7kHKo

Oink oink

[CCTV]

I love pigs to be fair.

https://youtu.be/j0_ljN7kHKo

Oink oink

Me too, like a pig in shit, I went for a swim in the Atlantic today. Very refreshing :)

[Nineteenx]

1. based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

Has anyone else spotted the case for the prosecution and the fundamental flaw in the use of the term subjective yet?

Genuine question here, if certain fouls and types of fouls are considered penalties or free kicks by referees or VAR officials on the grounds of their personal feelings, tastes or opinions, then that surely means those officials will arrive at the same decisions for the same, almost identical types of fouls in the same positions, it stands to reason and makes perfect logical sense, if the argument some decisions are subjective, then if he's faced with that foul again in a practically identical situation, using his subjectivity he surely arrives at the same decision

[Nineteenx]

From ESPN


Maguire vs. Azpilicueta
Man United 0-0 Chelsea (Oct. 24)

What happened? Chelsea played a ball into box in the first half and Harry Maguire and Cesar Azpilicueta battled for the ball, with the Manchester United defender heading clear. However, replays showed that Maguire went over the top of Azpilicueta, with both arms around his shoulders, to get to the ball first. A holding offence is defined as "when a player's contact with an opponent's body or equipment impedes the opponent's movement."

Harry Maguire appears to have Cesar Azpilicueta in a headlock at Old Trafford. Oli Scarff - Pool/Getty Images
What about the review? This took place in the background while play continued and the VAR, Stuart Attwell, quickly decided there was not enough in the challenge to warrant a penalty to Chelsea.

Controversy rating 9/10: This was a crucial decision which could have handed Chelsea three points at Old Trafford. Attwell was too quick to move on and allow the play to restart when it did eventually stop.

VAR rating 2/10: Referee Martin Atkinson may have been unsighted, but Attwell should have picked up on a "serious missed incident." What made matters worse is that Attwell, acting as referee, had given a very soft penalty for holding by Brighton's Tariq Lamptey on Crystal Palace's Michy Batshuayi just six days earlier.

It can't be 'subjective' if Atwell gave a pen for a less extreme foul of the same nature a few days earlier, and this was a nailed on pen, and there are several other instances of the same refs giving penalties for the exact same fouls for one side and not another, I've noticed they've suddenly dropped using their buzz word in the last 2 weeks