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Thread: Brexit thread 2 Electric Boogaloo

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by dicko1969 View Post
    Magic washing machine
    And the incredible stats the other

    Lots of great interesting videos on Ted

    Jamie Oliver... obesity
    And Mike Biddle ..... about plastics
    Elon Musk and travel under the city

    https://www.ted.com/talks/mike_biddle/up-next

    Oh and Google driverless car... x2
    Watched the Oliver obesity one, hes passionate
    It's amazing how the general quality of food consumed has decreased.
    The amount of sugar one can consume thinking your having a healthy diet is scary. Seen it over here with a doctor and one non-obese or even close family and the parents were shocked at the guidelines versus their young kids consumption. The doctor said as well that there are visually obese people but that there are also people who are internally obese.

    From wikipedia (quiet bali)
    "TOFI[1][2] (thin-outside-fat-inside) is used to describe lean individuals with a disproportionate amount of fat (adipose tissue) stored in their abdomen. The figure to illustrate this shows two men, both 35 years old, with a BMI of 25 kg/m2. Despite their similar size, the TOFI had 5.86 litres of internal fat, whilst the healthy control had only 1.65 litres."

    Think this is a great tedtalk. Mick the vegan a youtuber critiques it, but his critique seems to be rather poor, including assumptions about the methodology that were incorrect.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI
    Hes written a book and has massive support in the farming community. Explains more elsewhere too.
    Last edited by CCTV; 17th March 2019 at 03:14 AM.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by dicko1969 View Post
    Yep another valid point.
    This is the case in other wealthy European countries.
    Immigrants (I hate this term) taking our jobs. Bullshit , people too lazy to work.

    The average EEA migrant arriving in 2016 will contribute a discounted total of around £78,000 to the UK public finances over his or her lifetime.

    Overall, the future net contribution of 2016 arrivals alone to the UK public finances is estimated at £25bn.

    Had there been no immigration at all in 2016, the rest of us would have had, over time, to find £25bn, through higher taxes, public service cuts, or higher borrowing.
    The means to an end argument, should imo dissipate the grandstanding on higher moral principles, but it does have material consequences perhaps.

    25 billion is no laughing matter over their lifetimes. Say 25 years and its a shortfall of a billion a year from revenue.
    Revenue?

    https://www.ukpublicrevenue.co.uk/current_revenue
    "Total UK public revenue will amount to £775.8 billion in 2019. Of this 42 percent will be in indirect taxes, 33 percent in income taxes, 18 percent in national insurance contributions, and 7 percent in business and other revenue." Not sure if that is representative of years, guess so for now.

    Obviously there's likely to be or may be tariffs on goods that presently do not have them, which would hit consumers spending, but it might benefit the exchequer if you are concerned about revenue overall. I dont know on this so cant claim anything. Just a thought ?

    Have you seen 'the UK gold' documentary? Could grab a billion out of them.
    Last edited by CCTV; 17th March 2019 at 03:28 AM.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by dicko1969 View Post
    Question

    5. What does the UK pay for Europe , but gain from being in the European Union?

    6. How can you offer a referendum to the people on such a complex issue?
    5 --- https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

    "The UK pays more into the EU budget than it gets back.

    In 2017 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion.

    Each year the UK gets a discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth about £5.6 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £18.6 billion in contributions.

    The UK pays more into the EU budget than it gets back.

    In 2017 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion.

    Each year the UK gets a discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth about £5.6 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £18.6 billion in contributions.

    The UK doesn’t pay or "send to Brussels" this higher figure of £18.6 billion, or anything equivalent per week or per day. The rebate is applied straight away (its size is calculated based on the previous year's contributions), so the UK never contributes this much.

    The UK’s contributions to the budget vary from year to year, and are forecast to grow towards the end of the decade. They’ve been larger recently than in previous decades.

    A membership fee isn’t the same as the total economic cost or benefit of EU membership.

    Being in the EU costs money but does it also create trade, jobs and investment that are worth more?

    We can be pretty sure about how much cash we put in, but it’s far harder to be sure about how much, if anything, comes back in economic benefits.

    £350 million a week doesn’t include the rebate
    It’s been claimed that we send £350 million a week to the EU. That misses out the rebate, and it doesn’t represent the total economic costs and benefits of EU membership to the UK.

    £350 million is roughly what we would pay to the EU budget without the rebate. The UK actually paid closer to £250 million a week.

    The UK Statistics Authority has said the EU membership fee figure of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is "not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year".

    Since then, the new chair of the Authority described use of the figure by the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, as “a clear misuse of official statistics”.

    The UK gets money back
    The government then gets some of that money back, mainly through payments to farmers and for poorer areas of the country such as Wales and Cornwall.

    In 2017, the UK's ‘public sector receipts’ are estimated to be £4 billion.

    So overall we paid in £8.9 billion more than we got back.

    The Treasury figures note payments the EU makes directly to the private sector, such as research grants. In 2015, these were worth an estimated £1.5 billion, so including them could reduce our net contribution further still.

    The money we get back will be spent on things the government may or may not choose to fund upon leaving the EU. It’s not enough to look at the net contribution in isolation because what we get back isn’t fully under our control."
    ----

    6 - the people are sovereign. Referendums are critiqued in theory as those who do tend to say politicians are elected to govern and should do so themselves. It's a fair point but then referendum's should all be critiqued.

    The unusual thing about Brexit is that it seems to be a rare referendum where the opportunity to vote and decide the outcome was say not what the government wanted.

    In general I'd say you only get to vote in a referendum, where its given freely and not mandated, when the possibility to change is in line with government or institutional desires.

  4. #84
    A lot to take in.
    First thanks to everyone for discussing .

    I really do believe that Europe is a good way forward.

    The brexiters voted pretty much re immigration and nhs

    I think I stated the increase of population is mainly down to an ageing population and baby boomers

    UK population increase by 10million.
    (Last 15years - 20 years)

    Probably 8.5 million the baby boomers and ageing population.

    1.5 million net migration

    Why do I believe in Europe :

    1. Because we are at the negotiating table in Brussels

    2. Trade and access to 500million market

    3. Peace and collaboration with access to shared technology re planes, ships for military

    4. Environment unity to tackle

    5. Cultural exchanges (google it)

    6. Movement of people within the community. I can work easily in Holland, france, Germany and so on.

    7. University access

    8. Creating partnerships towns, companies, governments to create better living.

    On all the points above , a brexiter can challenge me. Sure he/she can. Because I have not researched anything in depth.

    But this is what I believe is Europe. For our kids. For the next generations. I believe it's better to be in Europe.

    What has happened is the European debate has been laid out on the table.

    Everyone is talking about it.
    Nobody knows all the facts
    But Everybody now has an opinion.
    Probably stronger than ever before.

    Farage said in the European union parliament a few days ago , how there was "stronger unity in the people of UK".... WOW.

    Demented , trying to plot the downfall of Europe.

    There are 73 MEPs for the UK.
    Can you name them?
    What do they do?
    What's their agenda?
    What parties?
    How to elect them?
    (Elections end of May 2019)
    There are 12 regions in the UK...
    Are they voicing their opinions, or hiding?

    This is where Europe fails.
    We don't know what they are doing there
    It looks very old school in their parliament
    Quite a strange set up.

    I think people should now say ok.
    Let's stay in Europe
    Put proper politicians in the European Union, parliamen (whatever that means.)
    Get real value for money.

    Thing is only about 30% of the public turnout for European elections. They are the end of May.

    Right I have admittedly written a load of old bollox. But I don't care.

    It's off the cuff, ideas , brainstorming, Saturday night. Best thread ever.

    24 UKIP MEPs
    20 Labour MEPs
    19 CONS MEPs
    +10

  5. #85
    Having listened to Mr Farage and his colleagues and seeing the hubris with which he stands here and
    the self-gratification of his position, I sometimes wonder: has he gone to Sunderland and talked to the
    workers at the Nissan plant and said to them 'It might cost you your job, but I will get my pipe dream
    of so-called sovereignty

    – but it might cost you your job, sorry, but I will get my pipe dream of so-
    called sovereignty' – has he done that?


    Has he gone to Oxford to the Mini plant and said 'I know what
    BMW are thinking if there is a no-deal Brexit, but I want it so badly, this no-deal Brexit, that I really do
    not care about your job' – has he done that?


    That would have been the honest thing to do, I suppose.
    Has Dr Liam Fox ever said 'Well, I said it would be the easiest trade deal in human history, but on
    second thought, it is much more complicated than I promised before the referendum.'

    Has Boris
    Johnson gone to the doctors and nurses of the NHS and said 'I did promise you 350 million extra
    Pounds a week, but sorry, I cannot deliver on that promise.' Have they done that?

    I think frankly that
    we would need, if want to come out of this situation, a bit more modesty and honesty on all sides.


    I also believe – I just refer to a report by the UK government published in November last year – where
    it said that if there is a no-deal Brexit, this would cost approximately 9.3% economic growth.

    Are you
    willing to pay that price, I ask the Brexiteers on this side?

    Are you willing to pay that price?

    Are you
    willing to sacrifice all those jobs for your pipe dream of so-called sovereignty.

    What is that sovereignty
    going to bring to you if you live that pipe dream?

  6. #86
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    Whoa, the unis used to be free in the UK?

    You commies!
    Etiamsi omnes, ego non

  7. #87
    As a 'mature' student, over 21+ tuition fees free. 1990s.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Balinkay View Post
    Whoa, the unis used to be free in the UK?

    You commies!
    The student numbers are dropping like a bomb and the Universities are in millions in dept. The government will bail out the bankers but not the universities.

  9. #89
    UK is a mess
    Massive debt
    Did I read 90% of GDP

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    19,139
    Quote Originally Posted by dicko1969 View Post
    A lot to take in.
    First thanks to everyone for discussing .

    Demented , trying to plot the downfall of Europe.

    There are 73 MEPs for the UK.
    Can you name them?
    What do they do?
    What's their agenda?
    What parties?
    How to elect them?
    (Elections end of May 2019)
    There are 12 regions in the UK...
    Are they voicing their opinions, or hiding?

    This is where Europe fails.
    We don't know what they are doing there
    It looks very old school in their parliament
    Quite a strange set up.

    I think people should now say ok.
    Let's stay in Europe
    Put proper politicians in the European Union, parliamen (whatever that means.)
    Get real value for money.

    Thing is only about 30% of the public turnout for European elections.
    First sentences agree. Think we need to add more detail and corrections though. On my points too.

    The euro is the downfall of Europe. Germany as a central authority its consequence.

    72.2% turnout for Brexit shows it is a highly interesting vote for the electorate imo and shows the level of totally disaffected voters in the UK. Ie if you didnt vote for Brexit you probably have 0 trust in politics or voting.
    It seems you are attacking the eu and demanding this failed institution should be retained regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by dicko1969 View Post
    Having listened to Mr Farage and his colleagues and seeing the hubris with which he stands here and
    the self-gratification of his position, I sometimes wonder: has he gone to Sunderland and talked to the
    workers at the Nissan plant and said to them 'It might cost you your job, but I will get my pipe dream
    of so-called sovereignty

    – but it might cost you your job, sorry, but I will get my pipe dream of so-
    called sovereignty' – has he done that?


    Has he gone to Oxford to the Mini plant and said 'I know what
    BMW are thinking if there is a no-deal Brexit, but I want it so badly, this no-deal Brexit, that I really do
    not care about your job' – has he done that?


    That would have been the honest thing to do, I suppose.
    Has Dr Liam Fox ever said 'Well, I said it would be the easiest trade deal in human history, but on
    second thought, it is much more complicated than I promised before the referendum.'

    Has Boris
    Johnson gone to the doctors and nurses of the NHS and said 'I did promise you 350 million extra
    Pounds a week, but sorry, I cannot deliver on that promise.' Have they done that?

    I think frankly that
    we would need, if want to come out of this situation, a bit more modesty and honesty on all sides.

    I also believe – I just refer to a report by the UK government published in November last year – where
    it said that if there is a no-deal Brexit, this would cost approximately 9.3% economic growth.

    Are you
    willing to pay that price, I ask the Brexiteers on this side?

    Are you willing to pay that price?

    Are you
    willing to sacrifice all those jobs for your pipe dream of so-called sovereignty.

    What is that sovereignty
    going to bring to you if you live that pipe dream?
    "A bit more modesty and honesty on all sides" You could apply your critique in a more balanced manner, guess we all could.

    Nissan voters do not need to be protected from political thought.

    Projections like these I'd suggest are rather hollow "it said that if there is a no-deal Brexit, this would cost approximately 9.3% economic growth."

    The economy hasnt tanked already as predicted, nor has been outside the euro currency manifested as foretold. Trying to discuss these claims will take time and effort.

    Again balanced characterisations might he best included.
    On the day of Brexits results it was an interesting and purported issue, how would the elected politicians who oppose Brexit manage to deliver Brexit as per the results of the referendum. Reported figures 66% of elected mps favour remain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balinkay View Post
    Whoa, the unis used to be free in the UK?

    You commies!
    Iirc the finances were directed into the NHS, so maybe they're all commies !!

    The rising costs in healthcare and poorer and poorer daily living standards rise, an issue about our lifestyles today. Treating more ailments which have arisen from poorer conditions.

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