Captain

[Balinkay]

Indeed, 19, as I said - he can do it. But I don't think it's his primary task.

And tbf I quite like wee Jay.

[skyebo]

No, it isn't. He tries to do it from time to time (to some success) but it's not his job. He's an enabler, not a flair player. If Alisson were our captain, you'd not be asking for him to do what I described. Hendo manages to win us the midfield battle, but he's not supposed to win the game on his own. Neither was Stevie in some of the positions and formations he played, but he did it anyway. Because he's Steven Fucking Gerrard.

The last bit irks me - 19x isn't comparing them in terms of footballing quality, but rather in terms of leadership. Whether you agree with him or not, there's at least a debate to be had there. Disclaimer, I'm probably the biggest Hendo simp on here after 19x. Called him eventually being captain in 2012-ish (I think).

If it's not his job to rally his players when things are going wrong, then whose job is it ? He's the captain, supposed leader, they are the ones the less experienced players should be looking to. There's more to a captain than wearing an armband and choosing heads or tails before kick off. The real leader of that team is Van Dijk, it's no coincidence that Matip and Lovren's form improved when he came in. It's a pity he's only 3rd in line for the captaincy behind Henderson and Milner because one or the other usually start.

[Balinkay]

Sorry, sky, maybe I didn't make it clear enough what I meant. I think he very much does what you described.

What I was referring to was coming up with something special in terms of that pass or that goal or that goal-line clearanace. Not in terms of rousing the troops - to me it seems evident he's pretty good at that.

[skyebo]

Sorry, sky, maybe I didn't make it clear enough what I meant. I think he very much does what you described.

What I was referring to was coming up with something special in terms of that pass or that goal or that goal-line clearanace. Not in terms of rousing the troops - to me it seems evident he's pretty good at that.

Henderson took alot of stick, both as a player and captain when he took over from Gerrard, some suggesting he shouldn't even be in the team. I thought he was the obvious choice to take over at the time, someone had to do it, and Rodgers chose him. The next captain will get an easier ride, as he won't be replacing a legend. As for saying people shouldn't expect him to be able to win games on his own, he isn't capable. Gerrard got us out of so many difficult situations down the years, he, more than anyone deserved a premier league winners medal. I wish he was 15 years younger and playing in this team. Also, when things are not going to plan in certain games, bringing on a substitute doesn't always need to be the answer, Henderson and other senior players should be clever enough to switch players around and see if that improves things, another part of a captain's job.

[Steveo]

Good post skyebo - totally agree.

I think this is a prime example of how comparing such utterly different players doesn't really work though.

We all know Gerrard was on an entirely different level as an individual - one of the very best players we ever had. Not sure his quality at captain falls into the same bracket though. Henderson has become vital as the workman ( he would happily take that title ) in a team choc full of outstanding talent - let's be frank here - in an England shirt he isn't much more than his anonymous old self in a red shirt.

Remember he plays predominantly alongside the relentless GINI - behind him he has Virgil and Alisson - bringing up his right and left rear he has Trent and Robbo - in front of him he has Bobby Salah and Mané... That is some talent to benefit from. The fact that Keita and the Ox don't seem able to is more a reflection of the system we deploy and their own deficiencies IMO.

The new Hendo is perfect for this team - and this setup - the guy knows his limitations and facilitates those with WC talent to flourish.

This is pretty darned great in terms of being a captain of a team like ours - SO where he once was no better than a squad player for a top side - he is now totally integral to one of the very best.

Doesn't really matter what Klopp says about what he sees in training either - why would any manager bad mouth their captain..?? We saw plenty of turgid displays on the pitch before the 2018/19 season so nobody can pretend that black is white. The truth is: something happened - something MAJOR happened and Jordan FINALLY grew some cajones - He went for it more, trusted his own ability more. He had to or it was over.. He has now developed into a player we simply cannot do without.

[Balinkay]

I mean Klopp was kind of ready to move him on - that was the idea of Fabinho.

Then Hendo went to him and told him he's not a DM by trade and would like to be given a chance to prove himself in a position that suits him more. Klopp was surprised but decided to give him that opportunity. The rest is history.

At least that's the story that was reported at the time and I seem to remember hearing something along those lines from one of them directly.

I think that's the something to which you're referring, Steveo.

[skyebo]

Good post skyebo - totally agree.

I think this is a prime example of how comparing such utterly different players doesn't really work though.

We all know Gerrard was on an entirely different level as an individual - one of the very best players we ever had. Not sure his quality at captain falls into the same bracket though. Henderson has become vital as the workman ( he would happily take that title ) in a team choc full of outstanding talent - let's be frank here - in an England shirt he isn't much more than his anonymous old self in a red shirt.

Remember he plays predominantly alongside the relentless GINI - behind him he has Virgil and Alisson - bringing up his right and left rear he has Trent and Robbo - in front of him he has Bobby Salah and Mané... That is some talent to benefit from. The fact that Keita and the Ox don't seem able to is more a reflection of the system we deploy and their own deficiencies IMO.

The new Hendo is perfect for this team - and this setup - the guy knows his limitations and facilitates those with WC talent to flourish.

This is pretty darned great in terms of being a captain of a team like ours - SO where he once was no better than a squad player for a top side - he is now totally integral to one of the very best.

Doesn't really matter what Klopp says about what he sees in training either - why would any manager bad mouth their captain..?? We saw plenty of turgid displays on the pitch before the 2018/19 season so nobody can pretend that black is white. The truth is: something happened - something MAJOR happened and Jordan FINALLY grew some cajones - He went for it more, trusted his own ability more. He had to or it was over.. He has now developed into a player we simply cannot do without.

Thanks Steveo.

[Kev0909]

Good post skyebo - totally agree.

I think this is a prime example of how comparing such utterly different players doesn't really work though.

We all know Gerrard was on an entirely different level as an individual - one of the very best players we ever had. Not sure his quality at captain falls into the same bracket though. Henderson has become vital as the workman ( he would happily take that title ) in a team choc full of outstanding talent - let's be frank here - in an England shirt he isn't much more than his anonymous old self in a red shirt.

Remember he plays predominantly alongside the relentless GINI - behind him he has Virgil and Alisson - bringing up his right and left rear he has Trent and Robbo - in front of him he has Bobby Salah and Mané... That is some talent to benefit from. The fact that Keita and the Ox don't seem able to is more a reflection of the system we deploy and their own deficiencies IMO.

The new Hendo is perfect for this team - and this setup - the guy knows his limitations and facilitates those with WC talent to flourish.

This is pretty darned great in terms of being a captain of a team like ours - SO where he once was no better than a squad player for a top side - he is now totally integral to one of the very best.

Doesn't really matter what Klopp says about what he sees in training either - why would any manager bad mouth their captain..?? We saw plenty of turgid displays on the pitch before the 2018/19 season so nobody can pretend that black is white. The truth is: something happened - something MAJOR happened and Jordan FINALLY grew some cajones - He went for it more, trusted his own ability more. He had to or it was over.. He has now developed into a player we simply cannot do without.

Good post yourself both explained what I mean, I don't come across well sometimes

P.S 19x I don't hate henderson I just don't want to stick it right in him like you

Midfield works very well together, considering they're not really classed as "star players" Wij came from newcastle... Henderson came from Sunderland.... but this is a part of what makes us brilliant, and i'm so proud to be a fan of liverpool and so proud of these guys, robertson also taa..- where they've all come from, hard work and dedication and look where they are, and it sums up the club fantastic, utterly fantastic. these lads have hearts of lions, which is why under klopp we do very well.

Imagine being a fan of city, spending all that money on plastic players? - I wouldn't really be proud of anyone in that team.

[Nineteenx]

The next captain will get an easier ride, as he won't be replacing a legend.

The next captain will be replacing a legend

Edit: I think what you meant was the next captain won't be replacing a one of a kind legend like Stevie at a time where the club hadn't been successful and despite Stevie's heroic efforts still hadn't won the Premier League title in almost 30 years and will likely be a player already considered a legend who, like Hendo, is already part of an incredible winning team as were many of the legendary Captains of the 70's and 80's

You've got to hand it to Hendo on that score too I guess, he's probably had it harder than any captain in Liverpool history for numerous reasons and how he's responded to it, well, nobody could have asked for more

[ianlfc]

If it was a toss up of either Hendo or Stevie , Stevie would win every time.
I think Hendo would pick Stevie as well !!