Curtis Jones

[miller0863]

No but it won’t stop Steveo behaving if they have and posting random videos to prove a point in argument going on in his own head.

[CCTV]

As ever with Liverpool under Jurgen it is about the entire team, and their combined ability to play the system, Hendo got POTY on merit in our title winning season, we won it because the tactics, most notably the press and counter press and winning of second balls and recycling balls from set pieces were absolutely out of this world, played as a team to the highest levels we have ever played them and not coincidentally, in the run of game that Fab was out and Hendo was there at No6 organising and orchestrating it to those levels, making sure everyone was on point and making the play.

And he did it so well it literally didn't matter who came into that midfield with him and Gini, Milner, Lallana, even Oxlade and Shaq, he made fucking damned well sure it still worked and functioned to it's highest levels at No6, he was without out a shadow of a doubt our MVP in the title winning season and it's not a coincidence we've never reached those same levels since he was moved from there, that was the point everything went a little downhill as a team.

Now in the Champions League winning season, there were numerous great saves by ALisson, absolutely crucial ones, numerous brilliant one v ones and one v two moments of defending by Virgil, moments of incredible inspiration and absolutely picture book sublime goals from Mo and Mane, but those things were barely required in the title winning season, because we played the system, led by Captain fantastic, to an absolutely sensational level

We'll have to agree to disagree.

VVD was imo the true poty in our pl title winning season. Hendo was great too but I'd suggest perhaps he got it as a measure of the story, being English and VVD getting it the year before.

There's a core group that all contribute, true, but the 4 I've listed have over the years been the cornerstone of our success. Our ppg record with VVD in the starting 11 is mightily impressive.

Iirc both our fullbacks contributed their share too, Robbo equalling and Trent breaking the record for assists in a season by a defender in the pl. Robbo perhaps the poty for the 2019 calendar year.

Klopp has led us to success though first and foremost, the team is littered with quality and leadership due to his profiling of targets.

The difference for me between Hendo and Gerrard is that Gerrard was was leader and the hero. In terms of picking one to captain a side, it's Gerrard every day of the week.

There's a little symmetry in ways but in a choice between VVD and Carra in terms of leadership, the football quality prevails as the primary criteria and the leadership subsides in terms of relevancy.

[CCTV]

Exactly..... they carried us to it.

Henderson is a solid 6/10 7/10 most of the time, but soon as he has a few good games he's the best midfielder ever.

I appreciate what he's done for us, but I won't call him something he's not.

Still think midfield is our biggest weakness, (which does say a lot for how good our team is now) but henderson is included in that.

It's a good story, Hendo turning around a relatively poor LFC career abetted by Klopp and the players he brought to the club. Gerrard was a natural leader due to his ability.

[eggy81]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

VVD was imo the true poty in our pl title winning season. Hendo was great too but I'd suggest perhaps he got it as a measure of the story, being English and VVD getting it the year before.

There's a core group that all contribute, true, but the 4 I've listed have over the years been the cornerstone of our success. Our ppg record with VVD in the starting 11 is mightily impressive.

Iirc both our fullbacks contributed their share too, Robbo equalling and Trent breaking the record for assists in a season by a defender in the pl. Robbo perhaps the poty for the 2019 calendar year.

Klopp has led us to success though first and foremost, the team is littered with quality and leadership due to his profiling of targets.

The difference for me between Hendo and Gerrard is that Gerrard was was leader and the hero. In terms of picking one to captain a side, it's Gerrard every day of the week.

There's a little symmetry in ways but in a choice between VVD and Carra in terms of leadership, the football quality prevails as the primary criteria and the leadership subsides in terms of relevancy.

Hendo laying the platform for gerrard to smash teams would have been a great combo.

[Taksin]

Much revisionism taking place here.

.

Your whole argument seems to be based on it, ironically.

We all know there are other leaders in the team and we all know the team played well when we won the league

[Steveo]

No but it won’t stop Steveo behaving if they have and posting random videos to prove a point in argument going on in his own head.

Naah sorry old bean but it was you who got completely the wrong end of the stick.

Skye was talking about what Klopp HOPED Keita to be NOT what he has failed to achieve.

That is the whole point and that is why I said you were confused.

We can all go back and see it. But keep digging.

Not sure what all the agro was about. You do seem to take offence quite easily. You mentioned a diatribe - I posted your calamitous statement.

It doesn’t read well to me. I thought maybe you would explain it in more detail but so far no.

[miller0863]

I haven’t had a discussion with Skyebo, it was you saying I was confused while totally missing the point I was making. It is very simple, you cannot appear to differentiate between a player’s ability and their affect as a captain. Real easy, even you should be able to manage it but apparently not.
You told me I was confused.

The irony.

[Steveo]

You said this right?

Henderson is Klopp’s voice on the pitch, driving the team forward. Keita?? Do me a favour, he can’t kick a ball straight without injuring himself ffs.
Henderson has been absolutely integral to our success under Klopp. The difference between his presence on the pitch and Gerrard’s is that Henderson helps others around him perform better whereas when Gerrard was playing it had a tendency to have players feel they could leave it to him. Some of them shrank in his presence on the pitch, performing better when he wasn’t there. Ok not with genuine class players like Suarez and Torres but several others for sure.
Under Henderson’s captaincy it is the opposite.

I was simply suggesting that the Keita comment by Skyebo was nothing to do with how poor Keita has been.

[Steveo]

And here my response which you label a diatribe

No - Jurgen Klopp is a different breed of manager Miller.

Put Hendo in Rafa’s 2005 team…

then take out Stevie G…

…then try to reach the CL final twice in 3 seasons.

People often confuse a teams success with one player. If there is one player making that difference it absolutely is not Henderson - behave - it was Steven Gerrard.

EDIT: Easy enough debating the two as captains - but it’s pie in the sky - both are captains for 2 very different managers.

Gerrard was a different breed entirely. Not the most vocal and perhaps not as selfless but ask any top side in world football which captain they would take and you know who they want.

[Steveo]

As mentioned here it is pie in the sky debating who was actually a better Captain when both play in different sides and under different managers.

But I give my opinion on it as I don’t believe anyone can keep a straight face and say Jordan is nearly as key to this Liverpool side as Gerrard was to his. Surely a key component to being a Captain? Again my opinion.

I also find the commentary that Gerrard was somehow ‘less good’ a captain due to him making other players shrink into their shell utterly baffling.

I find that bit strange in the extreme I’m sorry.